The regulations banning DAS were already penned, because Mercedes worked closely with the FIA to make sure the system was absolutely legal under the way the regs were worded.
The FiA should have a rule set that allows _ALL OF THEM_ in one go. Let’s see who can implement all of this stuff under the cost cap. Time for these cars to be the cutting edge of design and engineering again.
@@XB10001 Yeah, but they can't run away with it anymore. Merc can't spend 400 million on their car, neither can Ferrari or Red Bull, or even McLaren back in the day. There is a better chance of seeing actual innovation that can be applied to new cars just like we had in the 90s.
This video is extremely misleading. The Williams CVT was never fast, however it WAS unreliable, heavy, expensive and scrapped long before the FIA banned the technology. Do better.
CVT's were implemented in road cars back in the 70's by a Dutch company called DAF.....nowadays they only produce Trucks, the car building section was sold to Volvo. So the idea was way older than you may expected. Fun fact: The car was able to drive backwards as fast as forwards......so some Dutch people made a racing competition out of that......driving backwards on a race track.
The concept of a CVT Is superb. But modern road car CVTs lost their main advantage when they decided to follow customer demand and use simulated gears on them. Furthermore, reliability is a massive problem on those, no matter the brand. I own a shop, we work mostly with automatic transmissions, but CVTs, man, I mostly just throw them in the trash and replace them with a used one. They're no fun to repair. But the concept itself is great, as Williams demonstrated.
@KaDuWin They tested the CVT in '93, with the intention of using it in '94, but it was banned before they could use it in a race. The FW15C raced with a 6-speed sequential.
@PistonAvatarGuy Then Alan Prost, Williams, F1 history, the F1 website, countless hours of archived video must all be lying about using and winning with it in 93...There's literally millions of hours of videos, interviews, articles, etc. that talk about it being used, not mention old footage with commentators talking about it being used mid race. I lived through the era, this isn't imagination based statements, its undisputable fact. All transmissions including the CVT were sequential by 1992. Great job, you got one detail right. Sad noob fans forget they can google something to check accuracy of claims but rather rely on their imagination.
@PistonAvatarGuy Each gear ratio was variable, the the shifting configuration remained the same. No disrespect but again there are videos from the team talking about its use and you shifted your arguement to the design aspects. They won 93 with it, its proven. It was banned from being used further in 94 along with the Active Suspension with the first "push to pass" system.
90s F1 racing was _divine_ Hell, _racing_ was devine. Senna Schumacher Mansel Piquet Then there's McCrae Mitsubishi and Subaru British touring cars, BTCC FIA GT with the McLaren F1 LeMan with Mulsanne straight. Porche being Porche Mazda's rotary LeMan And all the famous names to go with them but i suck at remembering names.
I always find the "it's not intuitive" argument laughable. There's nothing inherently intuitive about the sound of a discretely variable gearbox. That's just what we're used to. If CVT became common, people would get used to that, and the "DVT" would become unintuitive. The argument is just dumb.
@ well Newey was able to find great success post Williams. Can’t say the same for Frank. It was sad to see Williams having to sell themselves in order to stay afloat
We don't know how fast CVT transmission was. It was so unproven that it's silly to assume that it was. It was scrapped by Williams long before it got banned
It was 4 seconds a lap faster right out of the box, but it was fragile, David Coulthard was the driver who actually drove the test machine, when they realized how fast it was they knew it would be banned so abandoned it, but as DC has since said, it was incredibly "soft" and broke very very easily.
@@AnIdiotAboard_ David Coulthard was driving for McLaren in 93 as their test driver not Williams. Prost has made multiple interviews talking about how he drove it all season and won the 93 title with it. Again, no research was done before you made your statement. Make any claim you want, as long as Prost and the team's videos exist of them saying that they ran it all season, I'm taking their word.
@@KaDuWin The problem for using such technology in racing cars was the difficulty of finding a strong enough belt to transit the 850 horsepower from an F1 engine. Eventually, the Williams' engineers found the suitable hardware and fitted the innovative transmission to the back of a test car. Team test driver David Coulthard drove the car on a wet July day at Pembrey in Wales. Williams' CVT FW15 car sounded revolutionary different to contemporary F1 cars because of the different way it used the engine. Instead of the revs rising and falling with each corner they remaining constant through each bend.
@AnIdiotAboard_ You do realize Alan Prost talked about running the transmission all season and winning with it right? Make any explanations you want, the video interviews from the drivers and team are everywhere. They ran it and won with it. Deal with reality.
Important engineering error at 3:20, when the CVT ratio changes, the transmitted speed and torque changes, but the transmitted power remains constant. That is the whole point of a CVT: maximize acceleration by varying the CVT ratio according to road speed while holding the engine rpm at the power peak.
The transmission does not change the power transmitted through it (except to waste some to friction), but allowing the engine to run at its optimal speed does allow the engine to generate more power... which is the point of a CVT in competition.
@ Yes, I believe we are saying the same thing: the CVT allows the engine to generate more average power over the course of an acceleration run by maintaining it constantly at the maximum power rpm point, thus maximizing acceleration.
i get the idea that you have never ridden a snomobile... 900cc with 150hp and a two-stroke powerband is pretty nice because of the cvt, especially with so much traction!
I think Williams has been screwed over by the FIA with these arbitrary decisions more than any other team. Back in the late 80s through to early 2000s, Williams was constantly developing technology head and shoulders above the other teams. But the FIA would find some reason to ban it.
Hello Jhonny. I know you made a video about the W11, and you covered basically everything that is to know about it, but I just want to know if you have any information on if any W11's are left, or all were converted to W12's? And if there is one left, would be purchasable? And would it be possible to run it?
All give it to you quickly, Question 1: No Question 2: Yes all the w11 chassis' where converted to w12's Question 3: no probably not Question 4: not unless your a billionaire
I liked F1 better when there was more obvious mechanical innovation & not today’s aero mods that may be noticed by the fans. Ironic that F1 was so concerned about the drone would detract from the fan experience that today’s cars don’t require fans to wear ear plugs.
Sorry Jonny, but the CVT in the 90s was not a revolutionairy technology. It has been around since Van Doorne (the dutch inventor) put this in de DAF cars. In de 1960s. Perhaps dive into the history of DAF, you might find a lot to talk about in other videos. And correct yourself in this one too.
What a memory you did unlock to me!!! There was no internet back then (or at least not in the way we use it nowadays) and I remember of an article on a newspaper regarding this transmission test that Williams was making back then. I didn't know what happened and now I get that it was banned altoghether. Now I drive a very simple Toyota Yaris Hybrid that has a CVT transmission near to the electric engine. Next time I'll take the car I will imagine to be a early '90s Williams Renault test driver. 😆
Williams racing ran the cvt for the 93 year and winning the championship but not because the cvt was so amazing it actually cost Williams double what it spent the previous year on gear boxes it was so unreliable they scrapped the whole system before the FIA banned it cool vid but such a click bait and almost misleading u can do better bro keep it up
@nolimitrc1 why do I hear gear shifts in literally every onboard video of the 93 Williams? The CVT technology of the time could barely last a full tire stint let alone a full Grand Prix distance without breaking the case or shredding the belt. You are correct about this video being misleading clickbait though.
CVT is awful and is dangerous. You try to pass another car the transmission decides how fast you accelerate, the engines revs high while you slowly accelerate.
Williams ran the CVT transmission for the entire 93 season and won championship with it. Why are youtubers making videos about things they clearly did no research into? A 5 sec google or youtube search negates your entire video. Lol anything for clicks these days even making videos based on imagination over widely documented fact.
Both of them do actually. If the transmission can keep the engine running at higher rpms for longer periods of time, then it will make the car go faster.
Yeah... But no. A good engine with a badly set up transmission can be okay but it's never going to be that good to drive. A less powerful engine with a transmission that matches it well can be surprisingly quick. If you've ever played around on snowmobiles you'd get how a CVT can turn a peaky narrow powerband 2T into something that feels like there's power under your right thumb for the asking. Keep the same vehicle and give it a 6 speed motorcycle style gearbox and you'd been sweating keeping it in the powerband on a trail through the woods.
FIA has a history of banning stuff that teams can't copy easily like the DAS
Or that would affect Ferrari.
The regulations banning DAS were already penned, because Mercedes worked closely with the FIA to make sure the system was absolutely legal under the way the regs were worded.
The FiA should have a rule set that allows _ALL OF THEM_ in one go. Let’s see who can implement all of this stuff under the cost cap. Time for these cars to be the cutting edge of design and engineering again.
@@Dygear Some teams have much more money than others.
@@XB10001 Yeah, but they can't run away with it anymore. Merc can't spend 400 million on their car, neither can Ferrari or Red Bull, or even McLaren back in the day. There is a better chance of seeing actual innovation that can be applied to new cars just like we had in the 90s.
This is the Crosstrek is the ultimate driving machine. Boxer engine & CVT.
This video is extremely misleading. The Williams CVT was never fast, however it WAS unreliable, heavy, expensive and scrapped long before the FIA banned the technology.
Do better.
I was gonna make the same comment.
Nailed it. CVT sucked in F1 and the craptastic CVT in your Honda is many, many times worse.
EXACTLY.
The "oh wait" got me😂😂
CVT's were implemented in road cars back in the 70's by a Dutch company called DAF.....nowadays they only produce Trucks, the car building section was sold to Volvo. So the idea was way older than you may expected.
Fun fact: The car was able to drive backwards as fast as forwards......so some Dutch people made a racing competition out of that......driving backwards on a race track.
DAF even constructed a Formula 3 car during the 60's which took part in races.
Back in the 50's already.
The concept of a CVT Is superb. But modern road car CVTs lost their main advantage when they decided to follow customer demand and use simulated gears on them. Furthermore, reliability is a massive problem on those, no matter the brand. I own a shop, we work mostly with automatic transmissions, but CVTs, man, I mostly just throw them in the trash and replace them with a used one. They're no fun to repair. But the concept itself is great, as Williams demonstrated.
The belt technology wasn't capable of handling the power, and Williams abandoned the idea due to unreliability, and then FIA banned it.
Williams needed FIA to ban it because otherwise a competitor could develop a reliable version.
The only thing that I've ever read about the transmission was that it was "promising," but never that it was fast.
It was used all of the 93 season. It contributed greatly to the Williams dominant speed advantage and championship win.
@KaDuWin They tested the CVT in '93, with the intention of using it in '94, but it was banned before they could use it in a race. The FW15C raced with a 6-speed sequential.
@PistonAvatarGuy Then Alan Prost, Williams, F1 history, the F1 website, countless hours of archived video must all be lying about using and winning with it in 93...There's literally millions of hours of videos, interviews, articles, etc. that talk about it being used, not mention old footage with commentators talking about it being used mid race. I lived through the era, this isn't imagination based statements, its undisputable fact. All transmissions including the CVT were sequential by 1992. Great job, you got one detail right. Sad noob fans forget they can google something to check accuracy of claims but rather rely on their imagination.
@KaDuWin A CVT can't be sequential, there's no sequence of gears for it to shift through.
@PistonAvatarGuy Each gear ratio was variable, the the shifting configuration remained the same. No disrespect but again there are videos from the team talking about its use and you shifted your arguement to the design aspects. They won 93 with it, its proven. It was banned from being used further in 94 along with the Active Suspension with the first "push to pass" system.
Imagine the engine being at top revs for an entire race. If used in current F1 rules, they’d likely run out of engines. Higher the revs, more wear.
That's essentially the sound I heard from behind me every race in my Formula 500.
90s F1 racing was _divine_
Hell, _racing_ was devine.
Senna
Schumacher
Mansel
Piquet
Then there's McCrae
Mitsubishi and Subaru
British touring cars, BTCC
FIA GT with the McLaren F1
LeMan with Mulsanne straight.
Porche being Porche
Mazda's rotary LeMan
And all the famous names to go with them but i suck at remembering names.
I always find the "it's not intuitive" argument laughable. There's nothing inherently intuitive about the sound of a discretely variable gearbox. That's just what we're used to. If CVT became common, people would get used to that, and the "DVT" would become unintuitive. The argument is just dumb.
Early 90s was the era of Williams. Frank Williams should’ve never let Adrian Newey walk!
His and Patrick Head's egos got the better of them
@ well Newey was able to find great success post Williams. Can’t say the same for Frank. It was sad to see Williams having to sell themselves in order to stay afloat
We don't know how fast CVT transmission was. It was so unproven that it's silly to assume that it was. It was scrapped by Williams long before it got banned
You do any research before making this statement? Williams ran it all of 93 season with a super dominant car and won with Alan Prost at the wheel.
It was 4 seconds a lap faster right out of the box, but it was fragile, David Coulthard was the driver who actually drove the test machine, when they realized how fast it was they knew it would be banned so abandoned it, but as DC has since said, it was incredibly "soft" and broke very very easily.
@@AnIdiotAboard_ David Coulthard was driving for McLaren in 93 as their test driver not Williams. Prost has made multiple interviews talking about how he drove it all season and won the 93 title with it. Again, no research was done before you made your statement. Make any claim you want, as long as Prost and the team's videos exist of them saying that they ran it all season, I'm taking their word.
@@KaDuWin The problem for using such technology in racing cars was the difficulty of finding a strong enough belt to transit the 850 horsepower from an F1 engine. Eventually, the Williams' engineers found the suitable hardware and fitted the innovative transmission to the back of a test car.
Team test driver David Coulthard drove the car on a wet July day at Pembrey in Wales.
Williams' CVT FW15 car sounded revolutionary different to contemporary F1 cars because of the different way it used the engine. Instead of the revs rising and falling with each corner they remaining constant through each bend.
@AnIdiotAboard_ You do realize Alan Prost talked about running the transmission all season and winning with it right? Make any explanations you want, the video interviews from the drivers and team are everywhere. They ran it and won with it. Deal with reality.
Important engineering error at 3:20, when the CVT ratio changes, the transmitted speed and torque changes, but the transmitted power remains constant. That is the whole point of a CVT: maximize acceleration by varying the CVT ratio according to road speed while holding the engine rpm at the power peak.
The transmission does not change the power transmitted through it (except to waste some to friction), but allowing the engine to run at its optimal speed does allow the engine to generate more power... which is the point of a CVT in competition.
@ Yes, I believe we are saying the same thing: the CVT allows the engine to generate more average power over the course of an acceleration run by maintaining it constantly at the maximum power rpm point, thus maximizing acceleration.
It would have taken a hot minute for them to make a CVT that would last an entire race distance.
Great video
My 2004 Vespa ET2 scooter has a CVT it's ok
Great video! Refreshing contrast to the F1 gossip on utoob
What's crazy is the Nissan CVT is absolute ass knowing that there was a version made for racing makes me cringe
i get the idea that you have never ridden a snomobile...
900cc with 150hp and a two-stroke powerband is pretty nice because of the cvt, especially with so much traction!
CVTs were common on metal lathe transmissions in the late 30s.
This is nothing revolutionary. It's called VARIOMATIC. It was invented a long time ago, and DAF installed it in its passenger cars as early as 1958.
would have been nice to see it in a couple of races before the ban
I had a job interview sitting next to this gearbox in Tilburg, NL.
In those days, if an engine sat at full constantly, the pit stop would have been much longer.
I think Williams has been screwed over by the FIA with these arbitrary decisions more than any other team. Back in the late 80s through to early 2000s, Williams was constantly developing technology head and shoulders above the other teams. But the FIA would find some reason to ban it.
Honestly I probably not gonna like it on an entertainment level. I’ve always like to hear the gear changing sound
CVT's had issues overheating and specifically with reliability and on top of that it was not fast.
Hi Johnny!
Hello Jhonny. I know you made a video about the W11, and you covered basically everything that is to know about it, but I just want to know if you have any information on if any W11's are left, or all were converted to W12's? And if there is one left, would be purchasable? And would it be possible to run it?
All give it to you quickly,
Question 1: No
Question 2: Yes all the w11 chassis' where converted to w12's
Question 3: no probably not
Question 4: not unless your a billionaire
@@Burnerisbrowsing So what you're saying is any hopes and dreams of owning that car is 0?
@@GameOver-nm2us Realistically, There probably lower than zero. keep dreaming kid.
@@Burnerisbrowsing hmm, how about no.
I liked F1 better when there was more obvious mechanical innovation & not today’s aero mods that may be noticed by the fans. Ironic that F1 was so concerned about the drone would detract from the fan experience that today’s cars don’t require fans to wear ear plugs.
I remember when racing was about innovation and careful interpretation of the rule book if you know who I mean.
The performance cvt... What people could only dream of having in their performance cars... Unlike the boring ass cvt's we got in production.
The racing is closer today than it was back then, but the cars suck now
Thank God they banned it,20 of those "drone" sounding cars would have killed F1!
Sorry Jonny, but the CVT in the 90s was not a revolutionairy technology. It has been around since Van Doorne (the dutch inventor) put this in de DAF cars. In de 1960s.
Perhaps dive into the history of DAF, you might find a lot to talk about in other videos. And correct yourself in this one too.
Thank you sir. Came here to say this.
Fast, small and loud? Sounds familiar…
Thanks for sharing your video.
What a memory you did unlock to me!!! There was no internet back then (or at least not in the way we use it nowadays) and I remember of an article on a newspaper regarding this transmission test that Williams was making back then. I didn't know what happened and now I get that it was banned altoghether.
Now I drive a very simple Toyota Yaris Hybrid that has a CVT transmission near to the electric engine.
Next time I'll take the car I will imagine to be a early '90s Williams Renault test driver. 😆
Williams racing ran the cvt for the 93 year and winning the championship but not because the cvt was so amazing it actually cost Williams double what it spent the previous year on gear boxes it was so unreliable they scrapped the whole system before the FIA banned it cool vid but such a click bait and almost misleading u can do better bro keep it up
@nolimitrc1 why do I hear gear shifts in literally every onboard video of the 93 Williams? The CVT technology of the time could barely last a full tire stint let alone a full Grand Prix distance without breaking the case or shredding the belt.
You are correct about this video being misleading clickbait though.
Before F1 became the shitshow it is now.
I loved the small cars of the 90s, it was better to watch.
CVT is awful and is dangerous. You try to pass another car the transmission decides how fast you accelerate, the engines revs high while you slowly accelerate.
We need to hear the engine's scream of pain over and over again. A noise of a fixed frequency is meaningless.
Proven false by the aviation community.
In a car that frequency is the audible "graph" of acceleration, with traditional gears it's engine speed.
Like if Jonnyf1 is the GOAT
Williams ran the CVT transmission for the entire 93 season and won championship with it. Why are youtubers making videos about things they clearly did no research into? A 5 sec google or youtube search negates your entire video. Lol anything for clicks these days even making videos based on imagination over widely documented fact.
The amount of fail you are throwing up in the comments is amazing
@CappyRev Citing history is a fail? What do you call going off of imagination?
"When debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser." - Socrates
Unfug. Williams nutzte in dieser Saison ein halbautonatisches Sechsganggetriebe im FW15C.
I dont think a cut would last a whole race without braking.
transmissions dont make cars fast. engines do
Both of them do actually. If the transmission can keep the engine running at higher rpms for longer periods of time, then it will make the car go faster.
as the previous said, they both do. good luck on your drivers' licence mate.
Transmissions are literally the main reason a car moves
PDK enters the chat.
Yeah... But no.
A good engine with a badly set up transmission can be okay but it's never going to be that good to drive.
A less powerful engine with a transmission that matches it well can be surprisingly quick.
If you've ever played around on snowmobiles you'd get how a CVT can turn a peaky narrow powerband 2T into something that feels like there's power under your right thumb for the asking. Keep the same vehicle and give it a 6 speed motorcycle style gearbox and you'd been sweating keeping it in the powerband on a trail through the woods.