Does Sydney have better public transport than Melbourne? (ft. Philip Mallis)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Check out Philip Mallis' case for Melbourne here: • Does Melbourne have be...
Sydney and Melbourne's rivalry is as old as time itself. But one topic that gets discussed less often is which city has better public transport. In this video, I've teamed up with Melbourne TH-camr Philip Mallis to settle the debate once and for all. I'll plead the Sydney case, and Philip will plead the Melbourne case. Enjoy!
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Links:
Philip Mallis' TH-cam channel: / @philipmallis
Daniel Bowen's blog: danielbowen.com/
Article in the AFR about Sydney and Melbourne's densification around train stations: www.afr.com/property/resident...
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Music:
Vlog Vibe by SHANTHI
Just Do It by SyncHits
Things Change by HoliznaCC0
Silver Sparkles by Purple Planet Music
Sports FM by Shane Ivers
Modern Trends by Alexey Anisimov
90s Energy by Lumen Media
Crimson Fly by Huma-Huma
First Sight by Schematist
Turn Up The Volume by Alexey Anisimov
VHS Dreams by Shane Ivers
Sections:
00:00 Intro
02:27 But Melbourne has trams!
02:49 Sydney's services are more frequent
06:06 Sydney has rapid transit
06:52 City Circle VS City Loop
08:19 Sydney's wayfinding is better
10:05 Sydney's buses are better
11:04 More of Sydney's rail is electrified
11:57 Better express services in Sydney
13:03 Sydney's TOD is better
14:33 Outro
Hey! Be sure to check out Philip’s video: th-cam.com/video/wxmYfFKkObE/w-d-xo.html
So, do you think Sydney or Melbourne’s public transport is better? Let me know in the comments below.
Can you compare Brisbane to Perth next
Next time you do something Melbourne based, is it ok if you get Taitset to do it? Like I’ve never seen this man on my screen. I hope you take this constructive criticism and change for the better. Also, love your videos. Keep them up!
I think Sydney has amazing public transport access in the city, but the suburbs are often left behind. I haven't lived in Melbourne for long though, so I'm not sure if they're the same.
who is dongchenyue? someone who write the caption
Great video. I think the stations north of Hornsby should also have been marked as >15 min frequencies in your map at 3:25.
You forgot to mention one very big thing: Sydney has a frequent train to the airport, Melbourne has no train to the airport at all!
I concur with this. Train from Sydney airport to city cost 18 bucks, Uber from Melbourne airport to city cost 50-60 bucks.
DiDi and ola are often cheaper and if your travelling with 2 people the $40 combined for the train makes Uber more attractive
@xObscureDarkness I usually travel alone between Sydney & Melbourne for work, always appreciate the easiness to get to the airport in Sydney than Melbourne, not having to use Taxi or Uber also means you don't need to rely on traffic to plan ahead of your trip too.
@@Duckstalker1340 you don't need to use a taxi or an Uber, you can just get a SkyBus. there's also a train that goes near the airport, then from the last station you can get a regular bus directly to the airport and it's like 8 dollars or something
@@Duckstalker1340 The bus in Melbourne is $18.
In either a taxi is almost always better for a couple. Perth however, $5
It horrifies me to learn that there is somehow a city that has a worse bus system than Sydney.
Tbf, trams here do most of that. They carry about 4x more passengers per year
@shaunmckenzie5509 4x times more passengers than what? 207 Million for Sydney Buses. 200 Million for Melbourne Trams.
But the coverage of the Trams just isnt there. What about The western Suburbs and the outer subvurbs that are not served by rail or tram. The Bus Network is rubbish.
Canberra here... after living in Sydney for near 10 years I want to walk in front of a bus... oh wait, there isn't any here.
@@mjcats2011be thankful it’s not American
@@shaunmckenzie5509The funny thing is Melbourne's tram system has never gotten close to carrying the same amount of people as the old Sydney system. We are slowly putting the trams back too.
Coming from Japan, Sydney public transport sucks... And then I went to Melbourne and I took back every bad word I said about Sydney... I don't know how people in Melbourne do it.
LOL but true
Japan is just special that way because it has a train culture. Most of the world aren't able to build their trains up to the same standards!
What about Canberra 💀
🤣 Yeah we have it pretty bad in Melbourne. Sydney is much better for public transport, but neither compare to Japan.
Japan has excellent public transport. I was impressed when I arrived at a shinkansen terminal and seeing those hella fast trains whizzing by was just awesome!
Melbournian here. When it comes to public transport, everyone from Melbourne says "we have trams". Yes, but the overwhelming majority of tram lines do not have dedicated tracks which results in trams getting stuck in the same traffic as cars. And don't even get me started on reliability of trains.
Exactly! Trams are great, but they aren’t everything. They make the inner city incredible, but that robustness falls apart quite fast once you get out of the city and into the suburbs.
And it's all only inner city Melbourne for trams.
Reliability? 98%+ of services run with 90+% in time. You show me how you would do better?
Well that is our bus system around our light rail area.
It's not about having trams, I'd say the 'Free Tram Zone' is a better selling point.
I was in Sydney a few weeks back and my car stayed parked at the hotel. Instead I got an (concession) Opal card and made like a local. It was awesome, great system, sadly I think it is ( for now ) way better than my native Melbourne’s. Most impressed with the rail (Tangaras ❤️) the new light rail that runs down George Street, Opal (bite the bullet and just adopt it immediately Melbourne) and the coloured roundels (ditto Melbs). As for any “rivalry” I’ve never bought into it and other than the press I never hear it discussed by anybody. Both cities are wonderful and different.
Why don't you just tap you credit card?
@@anubizz3 didn’t know I could until after I got the Opal card.
@@Griffin_63 well at least it's free..
I'm the same mate. Sydney born and raised. But I love going to Melbourne for visits. I love both Cities!
Meanwhile Brisbane: I think the Bruce Highway needs another 12 lanes
Let’s build another motorway right next to this other motorway we have!
(Okay Sydney did that too tho 🥲)
Tbf most of us from SEQ have grown up driving and that's the culture, right down to highschool where we were legitimately pushed to get our Learners at 16 and had school held driving related courses.
Plus, the train from Brisbane to Gympie North takes double the time of driving. I can't really see a cost effective way to improve that train line to be a bit faster considering where the train line actually runs.... people want to go to the coast; not Nambour haha
@@BuildingBeautifully yeah Queensland, the largest electrified rail network in all Oz, makes BOTH Sidneee and Melbbeee look like toy sets...to run Oz's fastest and only world class higher-speed tilt train on...how's those 1960's era XPT's going... jugging along, like it's last century still?? ;)
@@mmmail1969 ...With narrow gauge rail that WILL need to be updated in the future to standard gauge, at great expense. It's just a question of time.
@@thennicke no it won't. Japan runs narrow gauge bullet trains even!
Yesterday I went to a big concert at the Sidney Myer music bowl, about 10mins of foot from Flinders Street. In addition to this even there were multiple other events happening as part of the Melbourne jazz festival. We missed out train by about 30secs and had to wait 30 minutes for the next train in the cold. When the train showed up almost ever seat was taken and this was at 11pm. Come on Melbourne we can do so much better than this!
Absolutely. Frequency is freedom, and Melbourne can do so much better.
You just experience the pain of using Sydney bus.
$10 to the airport in Sydney is just loose change in the bottom of the pocket I just don't care I get the train.
@@anubizz3 I thought they were decent?
@@the_yesnt1358 decent until 2 bus decide to have a date or one decide to call sick.
Of course, any discussion of public transport between Sydney and Melbourne isn't complete without mentioning Opal vs Myki. Yes Myki was first by a _long_ shot, but going to Melbourne as a tourist, it was such a pain having to buy a new card (my card from the last time I went had expired), topping it up, and then trying to figure out when to tap and when not to tap on the trams. Versus Sydney where you always tap on and tap off, and can just use your credit card (including digital credit card via Apple Pay or whatever the Android version of Apple Pay is)!
Wait until you go to Gold Coast 😂. You can tap here, not you cannot tap over there😂..
Myki is having a A$1.7 billion upgrade to an 'open loop' tap and travel payment ticketing system where you can use a Myki for concession fares, mobile devices and credit/debit cars. Fist stage. Roll out of the upgraded Myki systems starts 2024.
@@chrismckellar9350 Wow it cost 1.7 billion to be able to pay with Credit card? Man I thought Sydney light rail construction costs is a disaster.
@@anubizz3 - In essence it is new system. The upgrade covers upgrading of readers on buses, trams, ticket gates, PTR (portable ticketing readers), back office accounting and planning functions and increase security protocols for the whole system for debit/credit card/mobile transactions state wide. New Zealand's new national open loop 'tap & travel' payment/ticketing system for all public transport services across the country is costing NZ$1.3 billion. to develop and rollout.
Surprised this wasn't mentioned in the video.
I got a train in Melbourne earlier in the year and was shocked at how bumpy the ride was compared to Sydney trains
Sydney had a major train accident in 1977 at Granville,
with considerable loss of life which could have been far higher if a suburban set had been the train derailed or if a couple of trains had been involved.
Priority for rail safety has been on the first rung of Government commitment since that time apart from a short relapse during the Greiner Government when there was another loss of life accident.
Sydney now has all welded track and concrete sleepers, modernised points and signalling, there is always ongoing rail safety improvements under all governments in NSW.
Melbourne has relied on poor quality labour intensive maintenance track with wooden sleepers, connecting plates with the resulting speed restrictions for this type of track.
Far too much money is thrown at giga road programs that have little capacity, they shortcut on rail safety and ride quality.
They may learn the lesson the hard way NSW did, I don't feel safe on a Melbourne train.
@@kcobley What was the incident during the Greiner period?
@@OldAussieAds Cowan bank 1990, however there were a number of fatal accidents during the following Labor Governments.
Railway safety has improved significantly in the last 10-15 years.
@@kcobley Yeah, there was Glenbrook and Waterfall as well.
I remember as a kid around 1987, I was at a friend's house in Springwood. We were playing in his backyard when we heard a large crash. We went for a walk, half expecting to see a truck accident on the highway. What we didn't expect to see was a V-set train off it's rails, across Macquarie Road and into someone's front yard. I'll never forget it.
@@OldAussieAds Train accidents can be very serious and the potential for loss of life is great, a Syd Train set with 1200 commuters derails at 80 k, the passengers continue to travel at 80 k whist the train stops.
Obstructions like catenary poles can be deadly in train derailments.
The rolling stock, track, signals have to be meticulously maintained and staffed regardless of cost, technical advances in safety must be quickly advanced into operation.
There was a huge death toll at the tube accident at Moorgate because advances in safety to a known issue weren't deployed due to cost restraints.
There are still a number of Granville style bridges in operation with spindly metal legs with heavy concrete roadways.
Goulburn St parking station needs to be pulled down, should never have been built. Some reinforcements of the original legs and speed restrictions imposed.
In the 60's and 70's it always concerned me.
German and Chinese research have concluded trains with engineered permanent coupling are much safer in derailment,
as they tend to stay upright in line and don't zig zag across lines and trackside obstructions.
All new Chinese passenger trains are built permanently coupled or as trains in one unit
Ferries are not there as tourist attractions - they move millions annually in peak hour commutes!! No mention of Sydney’s extensive Bus Lanes and Transit Lanes or express buses such as B1. And capacity with double decker trains or Melbourne’s free Circle tram or Sydney’s Opal with Friday concessions and interchange discounts.
Great comparisons! One thing Melbourne has over Sydney is services to get you home in the middle of the night, as getting home from anywhere in Sydney after 1am is almost impossible without Uber or the dreaded nightbuses... also getting across town without going through the CBD is difficult, for example the Dulwich Hill light rail to the Western line is so infrequent and slow and to get to Strathfield you have to get an all-stations from Lewisham, so PT takes 40 minutes to an hour from Dulwich Hill to Strathfield when an Uber would take 20 minutes, getting to Olympic Park can take over an hour when Uber takes half an hour, Google Maps often suggests going to Redfern and skipping the light rail completely!
If you think Sydney cross town services are bad, wait till you see Melbournes!
Yes, Melbourne has trains and some of the busier tram lines running 24/7 on Friday and Saturday nights.
Sydney has lockout laws, which Melbourne doesn't have. So maybe that's why 24/7 trains aren't needed up there.
This is a huge reason why Sydney's nightlife is poor and why the government are finding it difficult to revive it. People need the public transport options. Every time my friends and I go out, we spend $90+ Uber to get home (we live out west). As if alcohol and going out in Sydney isn't already expensive enough.
😂 Are we talking about 29 years ago?
i think it's much easier to do cross-town connections in sydney because of the lack of hub+spoke model that characterises melbourne's trains - but the walk from lewisham west light rail to lewisham station makes me irrationally angry every time i have to do it lmao
Everyday I use the ferry in Sydney to get around and it's great. It's a very underrated part of the system
yeah its definitely not just a tourist attraction. The Ferries are indeed used as a genuine form of transport. No tourist is seriously going to Birchgrove, Greenwich, Woolwich, Drummoyne, Huntleys Point, Chiswick, Abbotsford, Kissing Point, Cabarita, Meadowbank or Rydalmere Wharfs.
In terms of reach, sure. But the scheduling, frequency (operations in general), infrastructure and vessels leave much to be desired. In-line with a tourist water bus network that so happens to be integrated into the local PT system.
Where on other modes you see investment to either increase frequency, decrease travel time or generally improve the service, Ferries are left to their centurial practices. Often associated with pretty significant taxpayer funding just to maintain it, or degrade it? Which is a shame as Ferries can genuinely be a frequent, reliable, alternate form of public transportation.
(P.S. would love a Building Beautifully episode on Sydney’s Ferries as it’s a mode that’s grossly under appreciated in the PT space.)
a video would be nice and i get what your saying
@@ollie2074 yes
Yes I used to take it every Friday from Cremorne Wharf to Circ Quay then to Watsons Bay. Awesome trip, pretty sights, and none of those long winded bus rides!
Why do we need a different card for each public transport system in Australia yet a single E-Tag for every toll road?
Because of how the technology works. The etag is just a serial number that stores the real data on a server, whereas transport cards like opal and myki only have a limited amount of memory and even struggle to store an entire district amount of information if every stop needs to be coded, let alone every combination of fare policy. The only way around this is to switch to a server side solution (open loop ticketing), which is what credit-debit card systems do.
In Japan, they have a unified SUICA, Pasmo and many more IC card systems that just work across most of their JR and Metro systems across the country. Imagine if Australia had a unified ticketing system like OPAL? You wouldn’t need MYKI which absolutely sucks compared to OPAL.
@@danieljordan559 Opal does support credit and debit cards, I would have thought that the opal cards themselves would also be open loop?
Point 7 cannot be stressed enough - it is key: speed and frequency of express-running medium-distance trains but also what it allows you to do.
Sydney developed quad (4 tracks) all way out into middle and outer suburbs early on (up to St Marys on T1; up to Hurstville on T4; up to Revesby on T8; up to Rhodes plus another section from West Ryde to Epping on T9; and up to Belmore for separated freight on T3), meaning express running on all main lines for outer-suburban, interurban and intercity trains was simple and easy. Whereas Melbourne only developed triple (3 tracks) into the middle suburbs - and even then only on 3 main lines (Frankstone line to Moorabin along with quad track from South Yarra to Caulfield; Lilydale/Belgrave line to Box Hill; Werribee line from Newport to Werribee). Track speeds within Metro Melbourne are limited to 80kmh where Sydney has many lines with decent track sections of up to 100-115kmh.
What this all means is Sydney has regular and (relatively) fast express trains allowing you to get from places 20-30km away from the city like Sutherland, Blacktown, Revesby or Hornsby into the city consistently quicker than equivalent areas in Melbourne, with more flexibility to handle disruptions - and many of these journeys will be shortened further when Sydney Metro opens. What this also allows Sydney to do is split inner and outer sections of lines to run different services: on top of the conversion of the whole T3 to Metro, the inner sections of the T2 T4 T8 and T9 may eventually see a similar conversion to rapid transit with high-capacity high-frequency operations at all inner stops, with suburban inter-urban and intercity services focused purely on the middle and outer suburbs. Melbourne cannot do this without building new lines.
Melbourne's trams really aren't that special in performance terms; of the 7 busiest routes in Melbourne (3, 11, 59, 75, 86, 96 and 109) only Route 96, a former heavy rail line, comes close to the L2 & L3 in Sydney in terms of patronage/km or patronage/stop, and all Melbourne lines have slow average speeds (15-18kmh) even outside the city area with many shared traffic sections causing trams to get stuck in traffic, while not many stops have level boarding & disability access.
Where Melbourne does have an advantage is coverage, there are no major areas of the city as poorly covered by heavy or light rail in Melbourne as in Sydney (Northern Beaches, SE suburbs, outer SW around Bonnyrigg and Wetherill Park) except perhaps Doncaster (which is planned to be linked with Suburban Rail Loop). Another advantage for Melbourne is being able to run its 3 main regional services (Ballarat, Bendigo and Geelong lines) on the one Regional Rail Link direct and at quite high speeds, whereas all Sydney's regional trains split up quite close to the city and have comparatively slow speeds, hence why NSW was doing planning on an entirely new High Speed Rail network to Newcastle, Wollongong, Canberra/Southern Highlands and Bathurst/Orange - which again would be difficult to implement without expensive city access lines to meet at Parramatta or Olympic Park.
Very well summarised argument. Both cities have their weakness, and Melbourne’s 3 tracks on many corridors sure does leave a lot to be considered
I disagree on express services. Rather have rail services, than majority of your residential not being close to train stop.
@@74_pelicans There are huge swathes of Melbourne not being served by Rail. The arc between the Hurstbridge and Lilydale/Belgrave for one. Templestowe, Chernside Park, Doncaster, Warrandyte. What about Scoresby and Knox, or Dingley or Mulgrave or Fountain Gate.
Admit it Sydney is far superior.
@@BuildingBeautifully only junkies use Brisbanes public transport
You ridden the L2? A snail is faster.
Coming off from watching both your video and Phillip's video, I do largely agree with both your opinions that Sydney generally has better public transport in Melbourne.
I feel one of the most important factors to public transport uptake is frequency. As it's said; frequency is freedom, and Sydney has much superior frequencies with most stations having a train at least every 15 minutes for most hours of the day 7 days a week. Melbourne in contrast has most stations with a train every 20 minutes and this often lowers to every 30 minutes on most lines in the evening. Most Melbourne train lines still have trains every 40 minutes until 10am on a Sunday morning which is completely unacceptable for a city of over 4 million people with many people traveling into the city at that time of the morning.
I also agree with TOD's around stations and the bus network; Sydney not only has more frequent bus services around the city but there's also a higher prevalence of bus priority infrastructure that makes the service faster, more reliable, and more attractive to commuters. Buses in Melbourne pale in comparison to Sydney's and while some small areas have seen recent improvements the majority of the bus network hasn't undergone significant network changes in decades. This leaves a highly inefficient network that is slow and infrequent and doesn't meet the needs of the traveling public.
One area that I feel neither video touched on is that subjectively I believe generally Sydney has better train stations than Melbourne as they have more amenities and shelter compared to Melbourne train stations, are better maintained, and facilitate better transfers between different modes of transport. Granted Melbourne has rebuilt plenty of train stations in recent years which is great to see, but some of these new stations aren't the best designed including poor shelter and transfers between train & bus services (I'm signalling out Mentone for this where they rebuilt the station but didn't bother relocating the bus interchange to the new station).
One area where I do think Melbourne does better than Sydney is accessibility on the rail network, with all but one station in Melbourne has step-free access. Granted this does not mean that all stations in Melbourne are DDA compliant as there are plenty of older stations that aren't with steep ramps and non-level platforms that can make accessibility tricky. However this is still superior to Sydney where a number of stations do not have step-free access at all. Granted the Transport Access Program has made strides in rectifying this by upgrading stations with lift access but there's still a ways to go, particularly in regional areas.
Another area where I find Melbourne to be superior to Sydney is its regional rail network with V/Line generally offering a faster and more frequent service from Melbourne to its regional centers compared to NSW Trainlink with Sydney. V/Line offers speeds up to 160km/h to the regional centres with most interurban areas having a train at least once every hour, with Geelong and Ballarat enjoying 20 minute and 40 minute services respectively, plus several daily round-trips to intercity destinations such as Albury, Warrnambool and Swan Hill.
In contrast NSW Trainlink trains towards Woolongong and Newcastle have only trains once every hour or so and have longer journey times compared to V/Line, although I'll acknowledge that the latter is largely due to Sydney's hilly geography which does slow down trains in contract to Melbourne's relatively flat geography where trains have the ability to run faster.
Still sad you didn't pick Taitset for the Melbourne youtuber.
Oh I’d be down to collab with Taitset one day 😎 but I’ve been a fan of Philip ever since I had only 300 subscribers so this was the perfect collab for me
@@BuildingBeautifully :)
Nice collab. 👌 If only, we could could combine Sydney’s heavy rail with Melbourne’s culture, arts, laneways and trams. 🤩
Thought you'd mention that Sydney has very few rail road crossings compared to Melbourne
What about the level crossing removal project?
While true, Melbourne is working on that as we speak. We've had a ton of crossings removed in the last few years, and heaps of brand new stations built. Lots of new elevated rail.
Because Sydney took out the level crossings when Melbourne was working on freeways. That's why both cities were behind with the opposite.
I grew up in Sydney and am now living in Melbourne and yeah, generally I find it more difficult to get around via PT in Melbourne than in Sydney. That said, I generally get around via bicycle in Melbourne, which I would likely never have done in Sydney. The bicycle infrastructure in Melbourne is just so much better.
I don't think the cycling infrastructure is much better, more that terrain and street layout is generally better for cycling in Melbourne.
Much easier for Melbourne to achieve considering their grid layout is much more adaptable
I grew up in Asquith which is just past Hornsby (fortunately now I have moved to the inner city with both kidneys intact). It looks like there are still long periods of 30 min train frequency outside peak times after all these years 😢. The density of the area has increased dramatically in the last decade. I don't understand why it's not on max 15 min frequency like other similar suburbs. Help support your local car dealership and ruin the environment by densifying your suburb with inadequate public transport, it's super effective!
Very sad what's happened in Asquith! People have moved into the (many new train-adjacent) apartments there thinking, great, what a convenient location, only to soon realise that it's a con. The minute you're north of Hornsby, suddenly it's one line south instead of two, it's back-of-Bourke service frequency, and it's passenger trains sharing track with, and constantly waiting for, giant slow freight trains that get signalling priority. They should not have plonked all those new developments in Asquith!
Hopefully frequencies go up in Asquith in the next few years. I’ve seen the density there and it could do with better services. That really sucks for them.
There is a fairly frequent bus service to Hornsby, but trains it's near hourly.
Expensive track duplication will be needed to fix this there are 14 Central Coast Trains per hour that have to fit on this route.
A lot of difficult politics in the Central Coast.
That was a very informative video. When I lived in Sydney in the 1980s/early 90s the times between trains were usually double what Sydney has now. There's been a real shift in priorities away from roads and towards public transport. I plan to be in Sydney next year, and I'm sure I won't recognise the place.
loving the crossovers with other content creaters here, hopefully it helps built all pt related content in aus
Thank you! That’s the idea 😎
@@BuildingBeautifullykeep up the good work mate. Our YIMBY.
Well done both of you. entertaining and interesting. I did chuckle at the comment about the airport though..... It may happen one day for our southerners . Good story telling always works. Thanks for all the effort
What I've found better in Melbourne was more it's active transport and trams. Never had a big problem riding bicycles in Melbourne - thanks to it's grid network I had an easier time finding a quiet side street to bypass busier ones, and they've invested a lot in segregated cycling lanes too. I feel Sydney (even in the Inner West + CBD) still has a lot of catching up in that regard, thanks to its road network not being conductive to providing alternate routes. (Not putting cycling lanes along George Street - the one street that can access all of Sydney's CBD - was a mistake.)
Frequencies of buses and trains, however, Sydney (or at least outside of the outer suburbs and Northern Beaches) wins by a good margin. Totally agree with you there Sharath. I also appreciate being able to find a seat to sit on even during the busiest times - not something you'd get in Tokyo!
You forgot another thingy, interchangeability from suburbs with most people being able to change outside of the CBD unlike Melbourne.
Well researched vlog by two passionate reviewers.
Melbourne train signage sucks too on Google Maps:
Sydney at Central: Go to Platform 19 to catch a train to Leppington
Melbourne at Flinders St: Catch the Pakenham line
Me: Cool, but what platform number is the Pakenham line???
You actually gotta look at the station signs, there are literally tons of boards telling you where to go. Look up ya'll
@@zksnxtrap Who's got time to look at every single platform sign looking for the Pakenham train?
@@seunjinbinguse ptv or a different transport app!?? Or take the 2 seconds it looks at the screen as you walk in
Wait until you see Sydney bus tracking in Google map, not all of them have it but hey at least we have it.
@@anubizz3 Dunno what buses you catch that don't have bus tracking. I've always had bus tracking (I'm a Sydneysider)
Love the vid it’s amazing I’m honestly a big fan of your work Sharith 😊
Great collab, two of my favourite Aussie youtubers for public transport. Growing up in Sydney and living in Melbourne for the last 5 years it's good to see the pros and cons on the east coast
Definitely agree Sydney is better in Melbourne in pretty much every aspect. Sydney just does so much right as you mentioned. TOD is a big one for me, the more people that can access public transport the better. If you could maybe sometime in the future I would love see a video on Canberra and how it can become less of a car dependent city. Loved it Sharath keep up the amazing content. Also what phone do you use for filming?
It's great to have frequency but there's nightlife in Melbourne.
In terms of infrastructure Sydney is just miles ahead, their stations are constantly getting accessibility upgrades, the platform is at grade with the trains and they're much cleaner in general. Sure Melbourne has the Level Crossing Removal Project but stations that are not getting rebuilt are neglected and left in the dust, don't even talk about the condition of Melbourne's railway tracks, there are numerous mud holes and sleepers that are still made of wood, just hop on a X'Trampoline and you'll know just how bad the tracks are.
Agreed. Wynyard station was renovated a few years back and it looks great with the Wynyard walk tunnel connecting it to Barangaroo and the escalator art installation. The updates and new areas at Central have made it really feel like a world class station. I’m sure the Metro stations when they open will look great too. Saw some sneak peaks of Gadigal station and it looked great with some nice artwork.
Forgot to mention grade separation, far fewer level crossings in Sydney
Yet another amazing, fun video, great job keep it up Sharath! I’ll be looking for you at Waterloo metro station on Sunday👀
Awesome video Sharath!
I think in Sydney we need to improve our buses the most, but it brings a sense of joy knowing our bus system is better than Melbourne's. Overall, I agree that Sydney's PT is better than Melbourne's.
I think maybe doing a video exactly like this with Taitset may have been a better idea since I find his videos to be more informing then this person you collaborated with here, although it's only my opinion, at the end of the day, it's your decision on who you collaborate with.
Again, awesome video! 😄
For the record, Philip reached out to me, which is why we did the collab. I’ve never been in contact with Taitset, although if he’s reading this, I’d be happy to be one day. Philip’s channel is great and I’ve been a fan of his channel for longer than Taitset (back when I had only 300 subs and Philip had 5,000!) so this was a better match for me anyways 😎
Anyways, glad you enjoyed it!
The collab that we needed but we don’t deserve. Love it!
Maybe it's my eyes going wonky or just my imagination but that fast moving Metro X'trapolis EMU, from about 12:43 in this clip, appears to be bouncing up and down a lot as it passes over that railway level crossing somewhere in Melboune? Goodness gracious me 😲😲😲
Xtraps have coil suspension.
XTrampolines they are horrible trains.
@@Low760 And that is why the are rubbish trains.
that is the result of the X'Trapolis trains being ordered with coil suspension rather than airbag suspension, to reduce costs. some people in these comments think the train is catching air, but I really doubt that. if it caught air at that speed, it'd most likely completely derail and would result in a very bad crash
Another great one by Sharath: Funny and true!
Edit: 12:53 the North Shore Line has this with the CCN diversions in peak, but that's only because they never came to quadding the existing track (*ahem ahem the space is still there*)
As I am in sydney at the moment and was in melbourne a few days ago coming from switzerland, I have to say: both cities has quite good transit compared with the US. Sydney has even the Ferries. But at both cities is the potential for improvement. As already in the works at melbourne with the circle line and the tunnel under the CBD.
Great video guys. Meanwhile, here on the Sunshine Coast, outside peak hour there’s a train to Brisbane every 90 minutes. Oh and a promise of an additional track, needed for more trains, stuck in the infrastructure review.
Yeah the M2 Express buses and the T-Way buses are awesome. Even the B-Line as much hate as it gets is pretty good.
The most lacking services imo are the T9 line and Mt Colah/Mt Kuring Gai/Asquith on the T1. T9 line has a short 1 way peak or 15 mins between services. Up past Hornsby can increase to 30 minutes.
Just a suggestion / thought........but can you two gents consider doing a Sydney vs Melbourne comparison, when it comes to major roads / tolls / freeways next? I reckon this topic would make for a very interesting VLOG as well.
Toll, Sydney vs Melbourne? It will be blood bath..... You know how greedy our NSW government are? We have a place that have 3 speed cameras in the span of 500m.
@@anubizz3 tolls and fines aren't the same thing. By speeding you're risking not only your life but others.
@@phamnguyenductin Did I ever say I endorse speeding? you not seeing 3 speed camera in 1 street not excessive? not to mention they reduce the speed limit once they install it. is it to save life or is it for money? mind you some area like Brighton-Le-Sands their resident begging the city to put speed camera because to many people speeding , but the traffic in that area not heavy enough to be profitable.
Who cares about road networks?
@@mjcats2011Are you asking a question ?
Great video would recommend doing for other cities and regional services included
10 years ago I would have told you that Melbourne was better. But Sydney has really caught up. My last trip to Melbourne I found the trains were slow and infrequent. Train stations had little to no digital signage. I couldn’t tap on and off with a credit/debit card and who can forget Skybus, but I still love Melbourne and the food is way better.
Point missed here is that Victoria's regional network is far superior to NSW, and V-line still shares several suburban lines which impacts service frequencies. This is being worked on.
Point missed here is that NSW is not just outer suburbs for Sydney. There are lots of cities regions with their own identity.
Good comparison, very informative. Are there any plans to do one for Brisbane? :)
i grew up in outer outer melbourne and now live in sydney and hard agree - i'm not near a train station in sydney but i am close to the light rail and a lot of buses and have no real issues getting around without a car (though it would be nice to be closer to a station). the belgrave line lack of frequency and express trains was the bane of my existence growing up; i spent a LOT of time hanging out at flinders street waiting for the train that only came once an hour after 9pm :'). i work in penrith once a week so my commute is around 50km; visiting my mum back home in melbourne who lives a similar distance away would probably take me around 2.5-3 hours on public transport (especially because the trains are only once every half hour at best) but getting to penrith takes me less than 2 hours and trains are every 15 minutes even off-peak. my only gripe with sydney's public transport is the fact that there aren't any trains north of parramatta road (like seriously surely the anzac bridge would be perfect for a train line that went out through rozelle/balmain!). i think sydney's public transport is wayyyy better than melbourne's once you get out of the inner city, but melbourne wins in the city centre (it's hard to beat the free tram zone).
Now that the Manly Fast Ferry is fully Opal enabled, the Manly waterborne corridor is now pretty much a turn up and go service too. Between the MFF and F1 Emerald class service, off peak headways are 10 minutes and peak headways are even narrower.
Would love to see a bronze medal playoff between Brisbane and Perth. Then for 5th and 6th you could compare the train networks of Adelaide and Hob … oh wait..
Ha! I went to Canberra and thought they had some cool little bus stops in the centre of the road... until I realised I never once saw a bus, nor another bus stop apart from that one road. I'm not sure if they have a rail network but I doubt it. (edit - upon further research those "bus stops" may have been light rail)
Airport line is a big Sydney tick as well
The thing I hated most about Melbournes trains, was that all the lines are named after their final stop.
Which means you have to quickly remember the suburb or all the suburbs. T followed by number is wayyyy easier or even better, saying the direction… I dunno where pakenham is haha
Nah, I always find names easier than numbers. Same as with roads, so much easier to remember road names than road numbers.
I agree, plus the colours make things really clear too
Number lines are confusing, Pakenham is easy to find on Google maps if you're not sure.
The lines have names as well in Sydney, like the T1 is the North Shore and Western Lines. I find the name and colour easier to remember than the T number.
@@immanuelaj yep, couldnt tell you which line all the numbers are and i used to work in PT. but say you want to western line or northern line or eastern suburbs etc and ill know straight away. granted, i know the system well enough that i dont even needs names or numbers.
11:34 The line between Lithgow and Bathurst is still not electrified but is marked as electrified on your map.
Yeah, he missed a little red box around the last 3 stations.
I grew up in Beecroft and love having the representation in the video! A small sleepy suburb but served better than parts of Melbourne, feels funny. Always was annoyed when just missing the train by 30 seconds but I can't imagine waiting half an hour.
a great video as always
8:34 The one problem with Sydney's wayfinding (for Buses at least) is that it's not clear whether it's a *B* for Buses or B for Stand B which makes it confusing. I have often had to point out to visitors who are standing next to the *B* sign, that the *Stand B* they actually need can sometimes be 50-100m away from where they have been waiting for 30 minutes.
Yes, that's actually a very fair point
14:22 Westfield Hurstville also has a major train station.
I really enjoyed this video and was a little surprised by some of Sydney's public transport strengths. I would have liked to have seen a section on accessibility, how do the two cities fare for disabled access?
Hey mate awesome collab! I rarely view the other collaborator but this video format has made me curious. Will defs chceck the video out!
'Turn & Go' is defined as scheduled, non-bookable subsidised urban/metro passenger transport services. With regards to Sydney ferries, they are used for local commuters, leisure travelers and tourist like any other public transport mode and form an important part of Sydney's public transport system.
As an occasional visitor to Sydney from Melbourne, I appreciate all the express trains you guys have. The lines seem to be massively duplicated so some services skip a lot of stops, whereas in Melbourne it's mostly just dual track.
Great video! A lot to say, as a Sydneysider who loved the convenience of Melbourne's tram network in 2014, its a marginal call, there is always so much mote to do that neither system is perect, but I guess for an impartial point of view Sydney's system does appear to have featured in more RM Transit videos! Maybe Reece should decide? Commenting to feed the.._._._! And Sharaths bank account!
The issue with Melbourne's infrequent service is mostly because we have had years of neglect of the rail network thanks to Kennet and several governments after him. Only now are we getting anything done (thank you Dan) and because of the neglect it's bloody expensive to do. We're slso getting a V line upgrade which I'm looking forward to the most as we now have to rely on that service!
Another thing to add, Sydney has an Airport Line. Melbourne on the other hand, that got cancelled by the State Government...
It hasn't been cancelled, at least not officially. Just "temporarily postponed".
@@shaunmckenzie5509it is as good as cancelled.
Great vid. Where I am in Melb I don't have to wait anymore than 10 mins for a train and most times they run pretty much spot on. Pity about the buses though.
That's a rarity in Melbourne.
Warringah Mall the only major Sydney Shopping Centre not on a railway station is on the very quick and frequent B-Line double decker bus line. So really all malls are well covered.
I have lived in Meobourne all my life and whilst this video is mostly true (save for the fact that there are frequent train services every 10 minutes every day and a higher 3-5 minute peak service on lines that run through politically “swing” seats, but a huge increase to 10 minutes on all lines when the metro tunnel opens is coming quite soon), Melbourne’s cycling infrastructure is 30-40 years ahead of Sydney’s.
Is it? Or is the geography and street layout (ie very wide lanes) make cycling easier with less infrastructure?
It is better but Melbourne is a very geographically flat city with more open spaces to enable cycling routes. That being said, Sydney has ignored this until quite recently.
Our Public Transport is 20 Years behind Sydney's.
Melbourne rail services are constricted by level crossings, a five minute service would require permanent road closure or a more concerted level crossing removal program.
But wait there's more, a large number of stations have no overhead bridges or underpasses, passengers walk across the tracks at the end of the platform like Blackheath.
Then there is the unfenced track that has both formal and informal track crossings with no gates.
No track duplication on some very busy lines, no express services.
It's combination of level crossings,lack of track duplication and unlimited pedestrian access that inhibits any sort of frequency.
These serious problems need to be addressed before any ultraloop is contemplated.
Level crossing need to go in less than 10 years.
People won't use a rail service that's infrequent, slow and in a permanent condition of unreliability, like Melbourne.
A more affordable airport link is available there is an old freight line that runs from Sunshine, a surface rail line could be continued relatively cheaply adjacent to airport drive around 7 kilometres a fairly slight uphill run suitable for trains, a very short tunnel to the terminal.
Is there something seriously wrong with the planners, duplication of the Sunshine line is also well overdue.
A second Melbourne City tunnel is also a high priority.
In the words of Jeff Kennet "trains are an unaffordable luxury, roads are a necessity" when considering a Melbourne airport link a long long time ago.
They are pissing too much money at the road wall.
The point about multiple lines in the city circle is a red herring. That's the way S-bahns work in Europe... 3 minute headways in the city circle serving two lines could deliver 6 minute headways on each line - better than they have now.
I'm totally on board with this crossover.
If a person from Melbourne ever tells you (a person from Sydney) that their public transport is better, then just say “We have an Airport Line” walk away and watch them cry.
Then hope to god they don’t say “How’s your bus network?”
@@OlBillyBoy1 I actually think it’s still better the Melbourne’s
No one catches the train to the airport, every air rail link in Australia has been a failure
@@wollo6not in Perth..it's only 5 bucks as well 😝
@@ACDZ123 will have to wait and see the Brisbane and Sydney ones were money pits, I’m glad Melbourne’s is “paused”
Sharath, i totally agree, i went to melbourne and wanted to go to the big shopping centre in chadstone and it took an hour from the city! Im pretty sure that Chadstones a big suburb so it should have a station, but it didn't, had to take a 20 minute bus from a station that was 9km away.
Chadstone isn't really a major suburb outside of the mall.
It's about a 10 min walk from the closest station. Shouldn't take an hour.
@@shaunmckenzie5509exactly.most buses from Oakleigh go to Chadstone...
@@shaunmckenzie5509 You know that is complete BS. It is an 30 mins walk from Oakleigh, 25 mins from Murrumbeena, 25 from Holmesglen and 25 from East Malvern all are the closest stations to Chadstone.
@@mjcats2011 Hughesdale. I've walked it several times. It takes me 10mins.
@@shaunmckenzie5509 Sorry bout that! it seemed pretty built up so i just thought that.
While i can't disagree with the frequency, the map from Daniel Bowen was cherry picked, if you want to name poor frequency, use the Hurstbridge line beyond eltham! I also can't see how the wayfinding is better as our colour scheme is perfectly clear & no incorrect examples was provided. Lastly, i think Melbourne at least wins on accessibility grounds as technically all but one surburban station is accessible by ramp/lift
Surprised this wasn't mentioned. Sydney is rapidly upgrading the network for accessibility though.
Just an FYI - As of 18 October 2023, more than 69.5% of suburban, intercity and regional stations are now independently accessible. So that's for all the passenger stations in NSW. There probably is a number somewhere for Sydney, but my quick search couldn't find it. BTW, even Sharath's favourite, Denistone, now has a lift.
I don't think that Melbourne's is anywhere near Sydney's. Melbourne's Rail and Bus system is absolute crap.
Depends on how you define accessibility. Many of Melbourne's ramps are good for someone with minor mobility issues, but dangerous for someone in a wheelchair.
Sydney is far ahead on full accessibility with Redfern (other than to 11/12) the last of the major stations to be upgraded.
@@mark123655 oh yes that is true, at random Windsor is a good example, technically step free but steep as anything
I would also add: 1. Sydney's PT mode share is much higher (which alone almost answers tbe question of whicb is better) and 2. The rail network allows you to go places other than between the city and suburbs. Both of these were sort of covered by the point about TOD! Great idea for a pair of videos!
There is a small error at 11:32, as the line from Bowenfels (Lithgow) to Bathurst and beyond is not electrified
While Victoria's regional trains are still diesel, the tracks are in better condition due to upgrades over the past 20-odd years. While Central to Wollongong is slightly further than Southern Cross to Geelong, it takes more than half an hour longer to get to Wollongong than Geelong. Sadly the NSW Government hasn't invested in regional rail for many years.
As a Kiwi (Auckland), my take is that I'm very jealous of BOTH Sydney and Melbourne.
We don't have trams, no metro, we have four heavyrail commuter lines, no light rail (yet), and some bus routes got axed because lack of drivers (because they're paid like shit). I am very jealous lmao.
when i went to sydney, i was amazed how good its pt is, unlike in auckland where train isnt running half the time
I think you should really do a video on Perth sometime soon!
The silly thing is that Sydney will have a second metropolitan airport with a rail service to both before Melbourne gets rail to its airport.
Keep doing what you're doing brother xx
Great clip guys. Might have to change the channel name though to something like... maybe.... "Presenting Provocatively"
Iv lived in both cities... I personally find transport to be about equal in both cities... Good but not great... I do love the trams in Melbourne and the ferries in Sydney...
Well they are not. Melbourne Trains are average compared to Sydney and our Bus Network sucks.
Asquith / Mount Colah / Mt Kuring-gai often have 30 min intervals (Hornsby and Berowra get more often)
11:58 Better Express trains?... except for Liverpool. :(
I grew up in Liverpool in the 70s when we had the old red rattlers.
The fast train to or from Central back then took 10-16 minutes less time than the fastest train today.
I am a foreign student. I have been to Sydney and I live in Melbourne. When I went to Sydney, I didn’t have a chance to take the Metro,but for my experience of taking the Train in Sydney, the only impression to me is that it’s too slow and far slower than the Metro in Melbourne(which is the similar transport to Sydney Train I think).
Nahh, Melbourne trains are generally slower and less frequent (limited express tracks.)
@@tobyb6248 But I think Metro is fast enough (except for the range between Flinders Street and Southern Cross)
@@masshiroxu8711 Even looking at timetables for similar trips (both 8.2km along the line) they are about the same - Central to Arncliffe (Sydney) is 14 mins and Flinders St to Ripponlea (Melbourne) is 15 mins. So no, Melbourne's trains aren't really faster.
Having lived in Melbourne previously and now back home in Sydney im not going to draw comparisons between both train networks as there is both good and bad with both services.
But with Opal v Myki,i have to say that Myki is a lot better.....Especially in the Melbourne CBD there is a free travel zone whereas in Sydney you have to tap on and off.
What else makes it better?
Building beautifully never disappoints
7:09 I’m afraid you’re mistaken as someone who uses the inner westie almost daily I can say that all trains actually pretty go clockwise and when ever I take the airport line they all seem to go anti clockwise
Melbourne may have a more extensive rail network. However it doesn’t go anywhere people need to get to, and no I’m not just talking about the airport. List shopping centres in Melbourne and you’ll find most aren’t accessible by trains except Plenty Valley and Southland. The rest aren’t accessible at all! Take Sydney for example and pretty much every shopping centre except for East Gardens and Warringah can be accessed by a train. Bondi Junction, Burwood, Parramatta, Chatswood, Bankstown, Macarthur, Penrith, and Castle Towers. Sydney was built around it’s trains, Melbourne was built around roads.
They mentioned diesel trains being slower at around 12 min however in Melbourne V/line is far faster than metro?
One area with poor public transport is the NSW Southern Highlands on the weekends.
Sydney Train Lines Like T1, T2. T4, T8, and T9 do Express Services in Sydney. T9 only does this during Rush Hours Express to Central From Epping and Express to Epping, But Local to Hornsby. But T1, T2, T4, And T8 Run Express Services during the Day But Stop Every Station Between 9PM to 6AM.
Sydney also has trams (light rail). They also have ferries (which our kiwi neighbours love), driverless trains, and high seat capacity double decker trains that aren't like >1km+ long. Also beautiful beaches, the harbour bridge (epic NYE fireworks), and opera house. And higher frequency services. Its no wonder why Sydney is the most populated city in Australia.
You forgot "C" for coach!
Also should the original Milsons Point line be converted to Light Rail?
Can you please do a vid about the Town Hall Square project?
11:33 Speaking of this map in particular, would love it if you could do a video on why Kiama to Bomaderry isn't electrified like the rest of the dark blue line (T4 from memory?). You literally have to change for only 4 stops worth of diesel trains, and you aren't even guaranteed to have one of those diesel trains sitting there waiting to shuffle off those leaving the electrified side of the rail line, despite how infrequent those trains are. It's confusing to me why they seemed to go out for a smoko right before finishing the job and then never bothered coming back
And Bomaderry isn't even Nowra. But it would be expensive to build a bridge just for a few rail passengers. Probably the cost benefit wasn't there for continuing the electrification. We should just enjoy the fact we can catch an electric train to so many places around Sydney. They still haven't electrified the line to Geelong (the number 2 city) yet. It's flat, fairly straight, and not all that far.
@@daveg2104 Thing is, if there were more than 4 stops left as diesel trains, I'd be less confused. It's the fact they get so close to the end of the existing line and _then_ stop that confuses me!
But also yes, I wonder how much more it'd cost to also extend the line into Nowra proper. I mean, in comparison to the road projects for getting down to the south coast like the Berry Bypass.
Though I don't know what the bus services are like from Bomaderry to the rest of the South Coast (the few times I've taken the train down there's been family with a car at the other end to pick up and go the rest of the way). Would extending the train line into Nowra provide any benefits over a bus route I wonder? Would people travel to or from Nowra more if the T4 was finished, fully electrified down to Nowra? And, I know the locals would hate this, but I wonder what the usage would be if it were extended down to Jervis Bay itself? Make it a lot easier for Sydneysiders (and others along the train line) to get to that holiday area
@@Respectable_Username If the population south of Kiama increases enough, that might provide justification for extending electrification. The same would go for extending the line south of Nowra. The section between Wollongong and Kiama has increased in population quite a lot. At this time, I just don't think there is the demand, despite how much we might like it. How many people catch the train to Coffs Harbour or Grafton? Not too many I should think.
I live in a suburb of Melton where it’s is operated by V/Line service which it used to operate every 1 hour frequency for 7 days a week which it grew and still growing they had to placed a second track just 2 years ago which is now 20 minutes frequency that’s Melbourne Southern Cross station to Melton station but if you need to get to Ballarat station it used to be an hour wait but they dropped it down to every 40 minutes which you saved 20 minutes but still not good enough especially on weekends which is every hour
The importance of the long standing deliberate policy to limit suburban shopping and business centres to rail nodes can't be overstated. It is a more important factor in the success of the rail network than the actual transport policy.
I live in Melbourne and train frequencies suck. Trams are mkre reliable and timely than our trains in the suburbs.
I like the idea of different signage. I dont have the best eyesight, and the distinct signage would help