2 years owner & everyday user of the sundara 2020 revision, the pads go bad they get squished and the fake leather peels off, a small bit of wear on the headband, but overall am happy the sound quality stayed the same they are not bassy but they have a clean sound, and the overall build quality is not bad
Getting my Sundara tomorrow . My headphone audiophile history is i started with HD600, HD650 then i went over to HD700 which deserves its own chapter. I think the Sundara will sound way better than the HD700 for my ears. Will update this comment when i have tested them out a bit :)
Awesome, I look forward to it. The Sundara is amazing. The HD650/600 are so, so good in the mid range. The Sundara is great but just different. I really enjoy them.
Interesting comments. I own both the Sundara and the HD-6xx headphones, each driven by different hp amps. I found the HD-6xx works out wonderfully with the Nitsch x Schiit Magni Piety amp, whilst the Sundara works out better with and fabulously driven by the Geshelli Labs Archel 3 Pro amp. I have found that these pairings work out superbly well. Thank you, and have a great day! 😊👍
I've heard wonders about the TYGRs... My use case leans towards closed backs and that's the only reason I've stayed away from them. I've always had the itch for open backs though.
I've owned or have tried basically every modern mainstream headphone over the years, entire Senn line, most of Beyer line, you name it. I thought I was done when I found the HD660S but found a Sundara 2020 for super cheap and decided to try it. Best overall headphone I've had to date. Beats anything in the Sennheiser line IMO, even the HD800(Haven't tried HD800S, yet). I even think the Sundara sounds better than than Ananda. I also have access to a Focal Clear Pro and while these are amazing, probably technically the best I've heard, I'd still have to side with the Sundara overall because of the overall package you get for the price. I see little or no reason to even bother looking for anything else after finding the Sundara. Definitely beats anything under $500USD. I highly suggest trying to find a cheap deal on a 2020+ Sundara(don't get the 2019 version, sounds worse). You will likely have to buy a new cable for it though, you can get one from Aliexpress for cheap. If you want something that's quite a bit cheaper but still very good, see if you can get yours hands on an HD58X - very cheap and underrated headphone. I consider it in the same tier as the HD650 and it's much cheaper and has better earpads.
Could you recommend a good amp/dac. Want to get sundara but amp/dac is confusing and expensive. (Preferably for tops 200euro) unless there is something way better for 300.
If you enjoy the Sundara then you will probably like the Arya stealth. I have the Sundara and decided to go for the Ananda, and while the Ananda is noticeably more resolving, I wasn't a huge fan of how it presented the sound to me. Just recently I got an Arya stealth and its ability to resolve is way above the other two, but more than that, the way the Arya presents sound is very much like that of the Sundara even if not exactly. I love the Arya stealth and would recommend them!
I've seen other reviews (Andrew Headphone Show Josh Valour DMS ) they seem to like this headphone as well . Nice review. They all say for the price point and as an entry level planar magnetic this is well worth it and it competes with lots of others twice its price .
Got my Sundara this summer, paired with iFi Zen Dac/Can Amp stack and love them. Found no reason to EQ them for most settings. When listening to rock, I will add. Bass boost on the amp. I did upgrade the cable to a balanced as well as replaced the pads. Find them amazing for music and capable for gaming (for me).
They are still excellent for gaming just not "the best" for foot step positional awareness. They are so good at sound, comfort, and bang for your buck, I could see this being the one of the best single headphone ownership choices you can make under $500. It must sound amazing with the Zen stack! I didn't use the Sundara on mine, but on most DAC/Amp setups I tried, I enjoyed a lot.
@@GadgetryTech yeah, I partially ended with these even though I was looking for primarily a gaming headset for PS5. I tried so many but due to the lack of EQing, due to the console, most “highly rated” cans were just too bright for me. I had really liked the Zeus but the build quality was quite low and I sent them back. I keep pulling back out the Astro MixAmp to try different EQs that way but still prefer them with iFi stack. Great vid and information on them.
BLanced on the Zen stack is definitely the way to go, not for grounding etc issues but because the balanced sounds better. This is the case with many amps in the sub $500 range, if they have a balanced output and you have the resource to get balanced cables for your headphone, go for it IMHO
Yet again I stumble upon a video by Joe and the level of detail you go into is amazing. Thank you for your efforts. I've been trying to find the headphone for me because I have an XL sized head as far as hat size and I have big ol dumbo ears that stick out. I've found that my ears need about 1.25" of space from the driver so my ears don't touch. So far the AKG K712 Pro have been amazing but the pads are a bit too shallow for me by about a 1/8 of an inch so my ears don't touch the inside driver wall. I even bought aftermarket earpads for the K712 Pro and it helps a bit but I find myself constantly adjusting them for comfort because my ears barely touch the driver and it causes pain. Just ordered the sundara and hoping that their earpad design helps with this.
Great headphones but they still need EQ. I recommend using apo and peace eq with the rotary 1990 optimum hifi curve. It will add some weight to the low frequencies and cut some of that sibilance and sharpness on the highs.
Watching this on HD560s,love them, and thinking of buying Sundara...what are the key differences,are they much better for music..and what size are ear pads opening 58,59mm..?
I owned both for a little bit, and returned the HD560S and kept the Sundara. If I had to quantify it, I would say the Sundara sounded maybe 15% better. The HD560S sounded smaller, thinner, and a bit less natural to me. What won me over with the Sundara was the midrange warmth and timbre, and the low-end speed and accuracy. While I think the HD560S is completely worth the money, the Sundara won me over with these characteristics.
Love my sundara. I have it paired with the ifi hfm amp. Coming from my evga audio card. I use it with the hfm pre tuning preset. The stock cable is absolutely terrible. Ended getting a balanced cable with a 4.4 balanced end. Ended up keeping these and returned the 6xx.
That's good to hear! I felt my stock cable was pretty decent. Depending on what year Sundara you have, they have made some changes. I wonder if that's why I enjoyed mine a bit?
Old comment but i was wondering if buying balanced cable would actually be worth it for sundara. Did you feel like it did anything noticeable to the sound or was it just for longer and nicer cable?
I've had mine for over a year now, and love them. The only thing I'd complain a bit about is the earpads falling apart, and to me it seems a bit expensive to pay $50 for new stock pads. Are there any decent quality earpads for less?
Quality-wise there is a lot of competition from brands like Dekoni or (more affordable) Brainwavz. They all have the issue of messing with the sound signature of the headphones however. With the Sundara, a lot of the magic is in the padding so third-party pads will definitely impact the sound negatively. Maybe there are some that are to your liking (some increase bass performance, alter sound stage, not necessarily in a good way though). I guess you would have to try them yourself. That is the one gripe with these headphones.. they probably won't last.. which is a shame considering some people are still using their Sennheiser phones from more than twenty years ago.
I've been using 15€ ones from aliexpress for over a year now and the material shows no loss in durability. I did have to put a bit of stronger glue in one of them since the stock glue keeping the leather in place started to fail but that was a 10 minute job and they've been perfect ever since. Didn't get them for that reason though, just needed something deeper. They're essentially the same thing as the stock pads but thicker. But they do change the sound, dunno about frequency response but I can say they make the sound wider. I don't mind personally, but it is noticeable. Might lose a bit of intimacy but you gain that natural openness in return.
If you need a mic or are using a controller, do the PC38X. If only gaming on PC and you can get a small headphone amp for it, the 560S. Extra option - Massdrop HD6XX if you want something smoother sounding but with excellent mid range.
I respect your choices; I would actually remove the PC38X from this question and replace it with the H6PRO. I found the H6PRO to be more enjoyable than the PC38X for listening to music and playing games. Also, the PC38X suffers from a painful clamping force, which the H6PRO does not. I also found that the imaging on the HD 560S was slightly superior to that of the H6PRO, but due to the HD 560S being a reference headphones, its sound wasn't as fun as the H6PRO's in the area of gaming. I acknowledge that sound is subjective.
@@District.24 rn i have a pair of epos h6 pro closed back. Is it worth switching to the open back version for gaming? Or would the hd560s with the amp just be an overall upgrade from both?
@@kwam011 It all depends on what you are playing. If you primarily play FPS games, and being competitive is your goal then the HD 560S has the superior imaging that will allow you to do that. But it has no mic, and cable is very very long. If you need a mic and still want to be competitive, the H6PRO closed-back is the complet package (and my favourite headset). The closed-back is better for FPS games, and the open-back is more suited for open-world games that don't require you to hear footsteps. Either will work with any sort of game, but closed-backs are more suited for FPS games. Having said that, at the end of the day, it's all about what sounds good for you. Don't look for the best gaming headset (it doesn't exist), just look for the best one for you. Hope this helps?
Excellent review! I'm looking for a pair of open backs for music production. I create EDM music with electronic instruments and accoustic..thought about this, senheiser 560s and philips x3
I just picked up a Zen dac 3 and qudelix for Bluetooth/ eq. Looking at both the Sundara and the hd6xx. Very tough to choose. Any other headphones I should be checking out that work well with that amp dac?
I love my Sundara amazing for Movies , and some tracks. But HD 660s are more organic with better vocals and imaging , but they lose on Soundstage and low end impact.
I just bought the dt 900 pro x and kept them over the steelseries nova pro wired, vzr1 (just can't get used to closed back but there were good),hd 560s
Very different sounding headphones, but both are great. The S3 has a little more impact to it and some warmth. The Sundara has a more open sound stage and more natural sounding presentation. For a bluetooth headphone, the S3 is amazing. For a wired only headphone, the Sundara is an excellent choice.
@@GadgetryTech I have them already and I like them, but because of the thickness of the cushions my ears are little far from the headset driver, waiting for your review and EQ suggestion also! Thank you.
2 years owner & everyday user of the sundara 2020 revision, the pads go bad they get squished and the fake leather peels off, a small bit of wear on the headband, but overall am happy the sound quality stayed the same they are not bassy but they have a clean sound, and the overall build quality is not bad
I can’t wait Tygr 300r VS HD560S! I have both and it’s really nice to hear what you think of them! Thanks for the awesome video!
Getting my Sundara tomorrow . My headphone audiophile history is i started with HD600, HD650 then i went over to HD700 which deserves its own chapter. I think the Sundara will sound way better than the HD700 for my ears. Will update this comment when i have tested them out a bit :)
Awesome, I look forward to it. The Sundara is amazing. The HD650/600 are so, so good in the mid range. The Sundara is great but just different. I really enjoy them.
Interesting comments. I own both the Sundara and the HD-6xx headphones, each driven by different hp amps. I found the HD-6xx works out wonderfully with the Nitsch x Schiit Magni Piety amp, whilst the Sundara works out better with and fabulously driven by the Geshelli Labs Archel 3 Pro amp. I have found that these pairings work out superbly well. Thank you, and have a great day! 😊👍
Wait for the Tygr review. I'm actually using them for several month now and they are incredible .
Agreed.
The 300 r? Or is there a new model?
NVM finished the video lol I've been using those for a couple years now, absolute banger.
I've heard wonders about the TYGRs... My use case leans towards closed backs and that's the only reason I've stayed away from them. I've always had the itch for open backs though.
I've owned or have tried basically every modern mainstream headphone over the years, entire Senn line, most of Beyer line, you name it. I thought I was done when I found the HD660S but found a Sundara 2020 for super cheap and decided to try it. Best overall headphone I've had to date. Beats anything in the Sennheiser line IMO, even the HD800(Haven't tried HD800S, yet).
I even think the Sundara sounds better than than Ananda. I also have access to a Focal Clear Pro and while these are amazing, probably technically the best I've heard, I'd still have to side with the Sundara overall because of the overall package you get for the price. I see little or no reason to even bother looking for anything else after finding the Sundara. Definitely beats anything under $500USD.
I highly suggest trying to find a cheap deal on a 2020+ Sundara(don't get the 2019 version, sounds worse). You will likely have to buy a new cable for it though, you can get one from Aliexpress for cheap.
If you want something that's quite a bit cheaper but still very good, see if you can get yours hands on an HD58X - very cheap and underrated headphone. I consider it in the same tier as the HD650 and it's much cheaper and has better earpads.
Could you recommend a good amp/dac. Want to get sundara but amp/dac is confusing and expensive. (Preferably for tops 200euro) unless there is something way better for 300.
@9komaan Schiit Hel 2 It is perfectly great for the price, Honestly wouldn't go much further than that unless you Want to spend quite a bit more.
Old comment but I agree completely with you.
If you enjoy the Sundara then you will probably like the Arya stealth.
I have the Sundara and decided to go for the Ananda, and while the Ananda is noticeably more resolving, I wasn't a huge fan of how it presented the sound to me. Just recently I got an Arya stealth and its ability to resolve is way above the other two, but more than that, the way the Arya presents sound is very much like that of the Sundara even if not exactly.
I love the Arya stealth and would recommend them!
@@aco2518 It was the opposite for me, Sundara sound better overall for my ears so I sold my Arya Stealth.
I've seen other reviews (Andrew Headphone Show Josh Valour DMS ) they seem to like this headphone as well . Nice review. They all say for the price point and as an entry level planar magnetic this is well worth it and it competes with lots of others twice its price .
Absolutely! They have great comfort and there's nothing offensive about them. I enjoy them a lot.
This is my third pair in my journey too.6XX, Noir 99 and now Sundara. Got them refurbished from HIfiman for $209
and which ones do you like best?
Mess 99s
@@OctaveWeb The Noir 99s
Got my Sundara this summer, paired with iFi Zen Dac/Can Amp stack and love them. Found no reason to EQ them for most settings. When listening to rock, I will add. Bass boost on the amp. I did upgrade the cable to a balanced as well as replaced the pads. Find them amazing for music and capable for gaming (for me).
They are still excellent for gaming just not "the best" for foot step positional awareness. They are so good at sound, comfort, and bang for your buck, I could see this being the one of the best single headphone ownership choices you can make under $500. It must sound amazing with the Zen stack! I didn't use the Sundara on mine, but on most DAC/Amp setups I tried, I enjoyed a lot.
@@GadgetryTech yeah, I partially ended with these even though I was looking for primarily a gaming headset for PS5. I tried so many but due to the lack of EQing, due to the console, most “highly rated” cans were just too bright for me. I had really liked the Zeus but the build quality was quite low and I sent them back. I keep pulling back out the Astro MixAmp to try different EQs that way but still prefer them with iFi stack. Great vid and information on them.
BLanced on the Zen stack is definitely the way to go, not for grounding etc issues but because the balanced sounds better. This is the case with many amps in the sub $500 range, if they have a balanced output and you have the resource to get balanced cables for your headphone, go for it IMHO
What a great review thanks bud 👍🏼
Yet again I stumble upon a video by Joe and the level of detail you go into is amazing. Thank you for your efforts.
I've been trying to find the headphone for me because I have an XL sized head as far as hat size and I have big ol dumbo ears that stick out. I've found that my ears need about 1.25" of space from the driver so my ears don't touch. So far the AKG K712 Pro have been amazing but the pads are a bit too shallow for me by about a 1/8 of an inch so my ears don't touch the inside driver wall. I even bought aftermarket earpads for the K712 Pro and it helps a bit but I find myself constantly adjusting them for comfort because my ears barely touch the driver and it causes pain. Just ordered the sundara and hoping that their earpad design helps with this.
The sundara really good for the price. Not the best out there but at that price point, very well worth it
Great headphones but they still need EQ. I recommend using apo and peace eq with the rotary 1990 optimum hifi curve.
It will add some weight to the low frequencies and cut some of that sibilance and sharpness on the highs.
Watching this on HD560s,love them, and thinking of buying Sundara...what are the key differences,are they much better for music..and what size are ear pads opening 58,59mm..?
I owned both for a little bit, and returned the HD560S and kept the Sundara. If I had to quantify it, I would say the Sundara sounded maybe 15% better. The HD560S sounded smaller, thinner, and a bit less natural to me. What won me over with the Sundara was the midrange warmth and timbre, and the low-end speed and accuracy. While I think the HD560S is completely worth the money, the Sundara won me over with these characteristics.
Love my sundara. I have it paired with the ifi hfm amp. Coming from my evga audio card. I use it with the hfm pre tuning preset.
The stock cable is absolutely terrible. Ended getting a balanced cable with a 4.4 balanced end.
Ended up keeping these and returned the 6xx.
That's good to hear! I felt my stock cable was pretty decent. Depending on what year Sundara you have, they have made some changes. I wonder if that's why I enjoyed mine a bit?
Old comment but i was wondering if buying balanced cable would actually be worth it for sundara. Did you feel like it did anything noticeable to the sound or was it just for longer and nicer cable?
Any recommendations for amp/dac ? :)
Good review, do u have pink hair, or a minimalist cut (thinking to bald) intrigued now around the baseball cap revalation 😄
How are Sundaras with your Nitsch Piety? How are the Edition XS?
How would you rate these vs the Audeze maxwells? Regarding pure sound quality.
I've had mine for over a year now, and love them. The only thing I'd complain a bit about is the earpads falling apart, and to me it seems a bit expensive to pay $50 for new stock pads. Are there any decent quality earpads for less?
Quality-wise there is a lot of competition from brands like Dekoni or (more affordable) Brainwavz. They all have the issue of messing with the sound signature of the headphones however. With the Sundara, a lot of the magic is in the padding so third-party pads will definitely impact the sound negatively. Maybe there are some that are to your liking (some increase bass performance, alter sound stage, not necessarily in a good way though). I guess you would have to try them yourself. That is the one gripe with these headphones.. they probably won't last.. which is a shame considering some people are still using their Sennheiser phones from more than twenty years ago.
I've been using 15€ ones from aliexpress for over a year now and the material shows no loss in durability. I did have to put a bit of stronger glue in one of them since the stock glue keeping the leather in place started to fail but that was a 10 minute job and they've been perfect ever since. Didn't get them for that reason though, just needed something deeper. They're essentially the same thing as the stock pads but thicker.
But they do change the sound, dunno about frequency response but I can say they make the sound wider. I don't mind personally, but it is noticeable. Might lose a bit of intimacy but you gain that natural openness in return.
would you recommend the pc38x or the hd560s for fps shooters and music listening. Great reviews
If you need a mic or are using a controller, do the PC38X. If only gaming on PC and you can get a small headphone amp for it, the 560S. Extra option - Massdrop HD6XX if you want something smoother sounding but with excellent mid range.
I respect your choices; I would actually remove the PC38X from this question and replace it with the H6PRO. I found the H6PRO to be more enjoyable than the PC38X for listening to music and playing games. Also, the PC38X suffers from a painful clamping force, which the H6PRO does not. I also found that the imaging on the HD 560S was slightly superior to that of the H6PRO, but due to the HD 560S being a reference headphones, its sound wasn't as fun as the H6PRO's in the area of gaming. I acknowledge that sound is subjective.
@@District.24 rn i have a pair of epos h6 pro closed back. Is it worth switching to the open back version for gaming? Or would the hd560s with the amp just be an overall upgrade from both?
@@GadgetryTech if i were to get an amp for the 560s which would you recommend. Thanks
@@kwam011 It all depends on what you are playing. If you primarily play FPS games, and being competitive is your goal then the HD 560S has the superior imaging that will allow you to do that. But it has no mic, and cable is very very long. If you need a mic and still want to be competitive, the H6PRO closed-back is the complet package (and my favourite headset). The closed-back is better for FPS games, and the open-back is more suited for open-world games that don't require you to hear footsteps. Either will work with any sort of game, but closed-backs are more suited for FPS games. Having said that, at the end of the day, it's all about what sounds good for you. Don't look for the best gaming headset (it doesn't exist), just look for the best one for you. Hope this helps?
Sundara is my favorit Hifiman headphone.
I enjoyed your video, Joe. I'm also enjoying being a subscriber. Whose build quality are you enjoying more: the Sundara's or the Model One's?
Build quality wise, I would take a Model One to battle lol. That thing is seriously built like a tank.
Excellent review! I'm looking for a pair of open backs for music production. I create EDM music with electronic instruments and accoustic..thought about this, senheiser 560s and philips x3
Great video Joe,I'm going for the HD560S,only because they are a good deal in the uk,(gaming)then maybe the sandara for music later!
Both are excellent choices!!
How does it compare to aune ar5000?
I just picked up a Zen dac 3 and qudelix for Bluetooth/ eq. Looking at both the Sundara and the hd6xx. Very tough to choose. Any other headphones I should be checking out that work well with that amp dac?
How would you compare them to Audeze Penrose for music strictly?
The Sundara is better overall for music, especially with a decent amp. They have a better sound stage, and the treble is a bit more refined.
On my Sundara, people sound like robots. They are extremely uncomfortable. My head was sweating after 5 mins.
I love my Sundara amazing for Movies , and some tracks. But HD 660s are more organic with better vocals and imaging , but they lose on Soundstage and low end impact.
Have you tried Beyerdynamics 900 pro X? Thank for your reviews!
I want a headphones top for produce and gaming but I can't decide!
I haven't yet! Perhaps one day.
I just bought the dt 900 pro x and kept them over the steelseries nova pro wired, vzr1 (just can't get used to closed back but there were good),hd 560s
Does the sundara works well with topping dx1?
My favourite set of headphones in my collection. I don't use them for gaming but they are incredible.
6:05 this 10000%
Should review the Aeon Noire
Hopefully one day!
The Sundara and HD 600 at $300 bucks are great entry HP"s into the headphone Hobby. Very good bang for the buck
Indeed! Best two in their respective price ranges I think. The HD6XX is a slightly warmer/software sounding 600 for only $200 too.
What about this with Stax Spirit S3?
Very different sounding headphones, but both are great. The S3 has a little more impact to it and some warmth. The Sundara has a more open sound stage and more natural sounding presentation. For a bluetooth headphone, the S3 is amazing. For a wired only headphone, the Sundara is an excellent choice.
Arctis nova pro wireless with the new wicked cushions please!
#soon? Waiting on the green light from WC to release it. I'll have it ready :)
@@GadgetryTech I have them already and I like them, but because of the thickness of the cushions my ears are little far from the headset driver, waiting for your review and EQ suggestion also! Thank you.
First