Hi Mike, This video has been so so useful. I have a CAV type fuel filter on my boat feeding a Volvo Penta diesel. The filter is not easily accessible and replacing the cartridge is a bit difficult. This year I spent ages trying to fathom how it worked because I couldn't see the underside of the top of the filter. Now I know where I was going wong, next year it will be so much easier - Thank you so much.... Dave (Zephyr IV)
they have those rubber washers on Massey Ferguson Tractors . The feul pipe goes into the rubber with a little metal thing on the pipe . you screw the fuel pipe in and it squashes the rubber
I have put a filter on the water separator for almost 3 years on a 300tdi and use it as a daily driver for the farm around 40,000km per year, have had no problem with loss of power or fuel starvation, but you need to check it every 4000km or depends on the diesel you are getting from the pump, and the main filter under the hood will last a very long time, but dont forget to change it also because you will notice 2 block filters.
Those rubber pieces were fitted by Perkins or CAV in mid to 60's to early 70's to replace the the brass barrel olive penny pinching & ease of assembly,in factory ,they are/were very troublesome and were discontinued back to brass olives as far as I know. They caused the fuel pipe to jam in the Filter head and even in the DPA pump and bits of split rubber even went into working parts of lift & DPA pumps luckily the nylon inline filter in the head of the DPA pump stopped any further contamination /fuel blockage. s
stuff a couple of plastic pan scrubs in the top of the agglomerator and run the second filter as the filter , if you get bad fuel you will save a lot of filters , just rinse the diesel bug or what ever out of the pan scrubs and bung them back in , if the weathers not bad use a glass bottom on the agglomerator and you can see whats going on ,, theres usually a swirl cone in the top too, yours is missing . theres also a long centre bolt kit that lets you run the longer filter or stack two standard filters if you have space .
What about double sediment/water systems? I have one in my fiat Ducato/talbot 2.4D motor home from 1990. Some say the first filter is 20 microns second filter is 5 microns
Hello Mike, thank you very much for your videos they are very helpful. I am writing to you in case you have information on where you could buy the interior plastic splash separator for the fuel sedimenter. (min 1:52) I have not been able to find that part and neither a part number that identifies it. If you could help me, it would be appreciated. Best regards
I took my sediment filter off the back of my disco 300tdi before I had problems, a beter place would be on the bulkhead next to the pump filter, no corrosion, boats in the UK definitely need them due to condensation in metal fuel tanks and crap deisel at mariners, great video 👍Mike
With my series 3 Diesel Filter the top and bottom seal do have a different diameter! I think the top one is slightly lager. I usually use MAHLE replacement filters and with those you get two different diameter seals (not so sure about the thickness :) )
Hi Mike, the rubber rings in the filter were normally fitted to Perkins engines that always had steel fuel pipes as standard ( they stand the heat in a enclosed engine compartment better). What You have to watch out for is if someone has pulled the steel pipe out and left the rubber ring in the filter housing body like the one that you have shown to us, make sure that there are not two rubber rings , one on the pipe and one in the filter body, WHY!!!!!, because when you tighten up the pipe nut on the steel pipe, the hole in the rubber on the inside of the filter starts to get smaller and reduces the amount of fuel going into/ out of the filter and hence to the engine as it closes up. There should be a brass washer on the pipe, between the rubber and the nut to stop the rubber ring misshaping due to it not sliding, but instead the pipe-nut grips the rubber ring and distorts it. The pipes on the Perkins engines had a flared ( trumpet) end on them were the rubber ring should be behind to give a good seal. How do I know this. I bought a wagon that kept breaking down, the owner got fed up with going out to breakdowns on the truck and sold it as scrap to me. It cost him a small fortune, and all it was a rubber ring in the filter body. When you fit those filter elements, always make sure that the outside of the filter is level with the inside, as I have had on a few occasions found that I have had to tighten down the filter more than normal. This is because the inside of the filter is higher than the outside, and if you tighten it up to stop it leaking, the middle of the filter cracks and the filter will not work so muck go's though the split part of the filter and into your injection pump, which then F**ks up, very costly. The duel filters were always put on tippers and plant because they run in the worst conditions and were great on high mileage vehicles too, and like someone else has said, I first saw them fitted as standard to ford cargoes. . Great video on an important subject that has always been neglected. Stay safe and stay away from razor blades. Yorkshire Rob.
Thanks Rob! I bought a job lot of new and used housings in the UK (MoD sale ) and I blindly picked this one out with the rubber rings - they were not fitted to Land Rovers as far as I know - but the internal threads were machined for the olive fittings so fitting a rubber bush served two jobs
Mike. Very good explanation of the fuel filter and fuel sedimentator for Diesels ! Did Ludi fit both to his VW1.9Tdi Rangie ? Shame the Japanese manufacturers still to this day - do not fit sedimentators. V.
It seems to be a compression seal, no olive on the pipe. The pipe pushes through the compression rubber then the back nut on the pipe squeezes the rubber against the pipe. Different way to skin a cat, the result is the same.
I wouldn’t swear to it, Mike, but I think that Lucas type filter was only used up to the end of the 19J. Tdis have a Bosch filter that has a comparable top, but no bottom housing - the filter spins on like an oil filter and has its own plastic drain tap in the canister. I don’t know about TD5s or what the Tdi had by way of sedimenters.
@@BritannicaRestorations, I can see the necessity, but they really should update the filter too. Tdis suck a hell of a lot more fuel than the earlier engines, even though much of it goes back to the tank, so they need a bigger, higher flow filter. Running the Lucas filter is likely to shorten the life span of the lift pump and could cause injection pump cavitation, damaging that too. Visiting the big shows like Billing used to horrify me, seeing all the bodged vehicles making terrible noises with oblivious owners - there is far too much work being carried out by owners who don’t fully comprehend what they’re doing.
trying to understand the CAV filter - does that replace the sedimenter and mount where the sedimenter is on a standard TDI300 defer? - or is it a replacement for the fuel filter in the engine by?
Hi Mike, very helpful information about LR Dieselfilter-system. When we swapped the 200TDi into the 109, we contemplated to install the separator on the side of the chassis rail, too. In the end, we did not, as we mounted an glass-bottled-filter element ( metal-gaze- net, similar to Series gaz-filter) and the LR 300TDi filter on the firewall, which has a drain-screw at the bottom. Hopefully, this is sufficient? As we have no in-tank-dieselpump, we were afraid of the resistance, the chassis-mounted separator would produce. I wonder, as the two filter-elements in the double Lucas setup are the type. Wouldn't it make more effective, if the first one would be only for bigger parts to hold back? Is there a choice? Did I get it right: The thread for the plastic screw at the bottom of the sedimentor is 5/16 UNC? (Have a used sedimentor on the shelf with missing screw). And at least: How is the lining of the return pipe? We connected the return-pipe, coming out the injection pump directly to the diesel tank. Should it be fitted on top of the filter housing? What difference does it make? Kind regards Heinz
I have one of these, I think it's a separator, upstream of my Nanni diesel on my sailboat. However, the fuel goes in port 3, and leaves via port 1. Is that normal?
Erm, Land Rovers _are_ tractors!! They're agricultural with no frills and farmers love 'em. Hmmm: instead of _Massey Ferguson,_ they could have rebadged the Land Rover as ''Massive Headache''. Or, Instead of _John Deere,_ rebadge it as ''Bloody Dear'' - I think Land Rover should have put a PTO on the back end in the early days. Think of the possibilities then! LOL!
I have just adopted my 110 and am slowly getting maintenance up to speed. If I understood this video correctly the Lucas 296 filters are NOT compatible with standard Land Rover filter heads? Mine is an ex British MoD 1986 model that got lost and ended up in Australia.
Had the same problem on my 98 Disco - the plastic plug seemed immovable! Eventually gave up subtlety and put a big pair of mole grips on it. Remarkably It survived and was even reusable. If it breaks in the process, replace it with a bolt as Mike said in the video.
Crikey! My eyes were all over the place watching you juggling them about! - It was like watching a street hustler do the ''cups and balls'' trick!
Hi Mike, This video has been so so useful. I have a CAV type fuel filter on my boat feeding a Volvo Penta diesel. The filter is not easily accessible and replacing the cartridge is a bit difficult. This year I spent ages trying to fathom how it worked because I couldn't see the underside of the top of the filter. Now I know where I was going wong, next year it will be so much easier - Thank you so much.... Dave (Zephyr IV)
Glad it helped!
Brilliant tutorial just about to change the filter on my Yanmar boat engine and you have just done great job showing me. 🍻 cheers.
Glad it helped
Interesting subject again Mike. Liking the idea of the double filter. It’s also quite aesthetically pleasing. 😎
Glad you like it!
Double filter husing marked Ford, the D series and Cargo lorries used these.
they have those rubber washers on Massey Ferguson Tractors . The feul pipe goes into the rubber with a little metal thing on the pipe . you screw the fuel pipe in and it squashes the rubber
Yes I know now - I have a box of new and used filter bodies I picked up at an MoD sale - but now it will fit a land Rover
I have put a filter on the water separator for almost 3 years on a 300tdi and use it as a daily driver for the farm around 40,000km per year, have had no problem with loss of power or fuel starvation, but you need to check it every 4000km or depends on the diesel you are getting from the pump, and the main filter under the hood will last a very long time, but dont forget to change it also because you will notice 2 block filters.
Those rubber pieces were fitted by Perkins or CAV in mid to 60's to early 70's to replace the the brass barrel olive
penny pinching & ease of assembly,in factory ,they are/were very troublesome and were discontinued back to brass olives as far as I know.
They caused the fuel pipe to jam in the Filter head and even in the DPA pump and bits of split rubber even went into working parts of lift & DPA pumps luckily the nylon inline filter in the head of the DPA pump stopped any further contamination /fuel blockage.
s
Some stationary filters have glass bottom or glass ring and you can view water in trap
My 1968 forklift has the same glass in the filter body - very important to drain before winter if there is water in it!
This is the Lucas CAV 269 design. Used on many vehicles and agricultural machines.
stuff a couple of plastic pan scrubs in the top of the agglomerator and run the second filter as the filter , if you get bad fuel you will save a lot of filters , just rinse the diesel bug or what ever out of the pan scrubs and bung them back in , if the weathers not bad use a glass bottom on the agglomerator and you can see whats going on ,, theres usually a swirl cone in the top too, yours is missing . theres also a long centre bolt kit that lets you run the longer filter or stack two standard filters if you have space .
What about double sediment/water systems? I have one in my fiat Ducato/talbot 2.4D motor home from 1990. Some say the first filter is 20 microns second filter is 5 microns
Hello Mike, thank you very much for your videos they are very helpful.
I am writing to you in case you have information on where you could buy the interior plastic splash separator for the fuel sedimenter. (min 1:52)
I have not been able to find that part and neither a part number that identifies it.
If you could help me, it would be appreciated.
Best regards
I have a spare! britrest@britrest.com
I took my sediment filter off the back of my disco 300tdi before I had problems, a beter place would be on the bulkhead next to the pump filter, no corrosion, boats in the UK definitely need them due to condensation in metal fuel tanks and crap deisel at mariners, great video 👍Mike
The 300 Tdi Bosch filter has a water trap built in
With my series 3 Diesel Filter the top and bottom seal do have a different diameter! I think the top one is slightly lager. I usually use MAHLE replacement filters and with those you get two different diameter seals (not so sure about the thickness :) )
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Mike, the rubber rings in the filter were normally fitted to Perkins engines that always had steel fuel pipes as standard ( they stand the heat in a enclosed engine compartment better). What You have to watch out for is if someone has pulled the steel pipe out and left the rubber ring in the filter housing body like the one that you have shown to us, make sure that there are not two rubber rings , one on the pipe and one in the filter body, WHY!!!!!, because when you tighten up the pipe nut on the steel pipe, the hole in the rubber on the inside of the filter starts to get smaller and reduces the amount of fuel going into/ out of the filter and hence to the engine as it closes up. There should be a brass washer on the pipe, between the rubber and the nut to stop the rubber ring misshaping due to it not sliding, but instead the pipe-nut grips the rubber ring and distorts it. The pipes on the Perkins engines had a flared ( trumpet) end on them were the rubber ring should be behind to give a good seal. How do I know this. I bought a wagon that kept breaking down, the owner got fed up with going out to breakdowns on the truck and sold it as scrap to me. It cost him a small fortune, and all it was a rubber ring in the filter body. When you fit those filter elements, always make sure that the outside of the filter is level with the inside, as I have had on a few occasions found that I have had to tighten down the filter more than normal. This is because the inside of the filter is higher than the outside, and if you tighten it up to stop it leaking, the middle of the filter cracks and the filter will not work so muck go's though the split part of the filter and into your injection pump, which then F**ks up, very costly. The duel filters were always put on tippers and plant because they run in the worst conditions and were great on high mileage vehicles too, and like someone else has said, I first saw them fitted as standard to ford cargoes. . Great video on an important subject that has always been neglected. Stay safe and stay away from razor blades. Yorkshire Rob.
Thanks Rob! I bought a job lot of new and used housings in the UK (MoD sale ) and I blindly picked this one out with the rubber rings - they were not fitted to Land Rovers as far as I know - but the internal threads were machined for the olive fittings so fitting a rubber bush served two jobs
Mike. Very good explanation of the fuel filter and fuel sedimentator for Diesels ! Did Ludi fit both to his VW1.9Tdi Rangie ? Shame the Japanese manufacturers still to this day - do not fit sedimentators. V.
The rubbers in the filter are standard on some pipe fittings that's what seal the pipe
The twin one is from a ford cargo truck .... .. IAm sure they had the rubber seals on the pipe fitting too ..
It seems to be a compression seal, no olive on the pipe. The pipe pushes through the compression rubber then the back nut on the pipe squeezes the rubber against the pipe. Different way to skin a cat, the result is the same.
Yes I know now - I have a box of new and used filter bodies I picked up at an MoD sale - but now it will fit a land Rover
I wouldn’t swear to it, Mike, but I think that Lucas type filter was only used up to the end of the 19J. Tdis have a Bosch filter that has a comparable top, but no bottom housing - the filter spins on like an oil filter and has its own plastic drain tap in the canister. I don’t know about TD5s or what the Tdi had by way of sedimenters.
Correct - but a lot of guys converting here use the original filter as usually the pipes and Tdi filter is missing in the 'kit'
@@BritannicaRestorations, I can see the necessity, but they really should update the filter too. Tdis suck a hell of a lot more fuel than the earlier engines, even though much of it goes back to the tank, so they need a bigger, higher flow filter. Running the Lucas filter is likely to shorten the life span of the lift pump and could cause injection pump cavitation, damaging that too. Visiting the big shows like Billing used to horrify me, seeing all the bodged vehicles making terrible noises with oblivious owners - there is far too much work being carried out by owners who don’t fully comprehend what they’re doing.
trying to understand the CAV filter - does that replace the sedimenter and mount where the sedimenter is on a standard TDI300 defer? - or is it a replacement for the fuel filter in the engine by?
The filter is the same casting BUT the sedimenter has different drillings internally - so you cannot use as sedimenter as a filter and vice versa
Hi Mike, very helpful information about LR Dieselfilter-system. When we swapped the 200TDi into the 109, we contemplated to install the separator on the side of the chassis rail, too. In the end, we did not, as we mounted an glass-bottled-filter element ( metal-gaze- net, similar to Series gaz-filter) and the LR 300TDi filter on the firewall, which has a drain-screw at the bottom. Hopefully, this is sufficient? As we have no in-tank-dieselpump, we were afraid of the resistance, the chassis-mounted separator would produce. I wonder, as the two filter-elements in the double Lucas setup are the type. Wouldn't it make more effective, if the first one would be only for bigger parts to hold back? Is there a choice? Did I get it right: The thread for the plastic screw at the bottom of the sedimentor is 5/16 UNC? (Have a used sedimentor on the shelf with missing screw). And at least: How is the lining of the return pipe? We connected the return-pipe, coming out the injection pump directly to the diesel tank. Should it be fitted on top of the filter housing? What difference does it make? Kind regards Heinz
Yes should be fine
Is there a part number on the dual filter? I would love to get my hands on one for my 200tdi.
Sorry no - I bought a box of ex MoD filters and they were in it - have about 5 of them
They were fitted to ford cargos from 80s and early 90s
You can buy from yacht shops for marine aplication, very good dual filters with water separator 100 bucks
I have one of these, I think it's a separator, upstream of my Nanni diesel on my sailboat. However, the fuel goes in port 3, and leaves via port 1. Is that normal?
That's OK several different entries and exits as far as I can remember
As others have mentioned, the rubber washers are from tractors
Erm, Land Rovers _are_ tractors!! They're agricultural with no frills and farmers love 'em. Hmmm: instead of _Massey Ferguson,_ they could have rebadged the Land Rover as ''Massive Headache''. Or, Instead of _John Deere,_ rebadge it as ''Bloody Dear'' - I think Land Rover should have put a PTO on the back end in the early days. Think of the possibilities then! LOL!
Hi Mike.
Can you please tell me what is the thread size of the pipe fitting for the sedimenter?
5/16 UNC
Thank you very much. I'm installing an electric fuel pump and need to sort out the pipe fittings.
Have an awesome week.
Sorry that is the drain thread size - In recent years size the thread size has been a choice of 1/2inch UNF or M14x1.
Ah, I thought the first size sounded like the drain plug. Thanks again for all your help Mike.
I have just adopted my 110 and am slowly getting maintenance up to speed. If I understood this video correctly the Lucas 296 filters are NOT compatible with standard Land Rover filter heads? Mine is an ex British MoD 1986 model that got lost and ended up in Australia.
the 296 is a universal filter and should fit the 2.5 NA and TD - but not the Tdi
The rubber seals go with solid pipes... on lots of older tractors.
Good tip!
Got a water trap in the back wheel arch. But the plastic plug is stiff and I'm terrified it will break on removal. Any suggestions how to free it off?
Had the same problem on my 98 Disco - the plastic plug seemed immovable! Eventually gave up subtlety and put a big pair of mole grips on it. Remarkably It survived and was even reusable. If it breaks in the process, replace it with a bolt as Mike said in the video.
Bypassed my separator pain in the ass sucking air in, what’s the point when u have a filter with a water drain.
looks like its of a fordson!