I think a lot of the emotion surrounding 4.0 is indicative of the year at large and the amount of time this update has taken. There's a lot to consider beyond just the features in questions. Regardless, we'll all be better off moving past 4.0 lol. Thanks for watching!
I rolled my eyes and thought typical CIG, but tbh a lot of the playerbase has wanted them to sort out performance and stop chasing lofty goals at least for a little bit, restricting 4.0 just to getting the second star system and meshing in, ultimately is smart, then take a quarter to unfck the innevitable jank that will come with it, and throw some extra bits in on top of a hopefully non janky base.
This is quite literally them doing what people wanted, slow down on new content and focus on performance (with Pyro) Improved server performance will be the most widely felt change if it goes well
Yup, the past several months everyone was raging that they wanted more stability.. and when CIG takes the path that would offer the most stability, everyone is raging that new features were postponed. Nevermind that all these new features weren't ever committed on the release view. You'd think people understood what that means by now.
We're always reminded that not everyone is on server meshing. all the ship teams and art teams and planet teams and mission teams.... suddenly everyone is on server meshing. how convenient. if server is late, then we're told that the rest of the company is not to blame, if the rest of the company is late, we're told because they are focusing on meshing. CIG has an excuse no matter the situation
Will it make it more stable or less stable? Yes. At first things will get rougher. But as they work out the bugs it will slowly make it far more stable than it ever was.
@@csdigitaldesign Like always i said; SC is dead already, only the fans didnt realize that fact. 4.0 is an empty shell, it just gives false sense of hype
Getting server meshing and 4.0 ready and out will be huge for CIG and honestly I think it's worth sacrificing a few features to a later 4.0.x patch. Ngl, I did feel a little sad with seeing things delayed again, but if it's needed.. fine.
This is where I am. I am sad the features I was looking forward to most are delayed, but if they are doing it to provide better performance for the future I'm fine with it. But if that's why then that's what should be getting done not this rush to the sales from the past year.
Server meshing and Pyro are gonna be the most important. If they need to cut some fluff and delay some features to get it through, im more than happy with it The main thing keeping me from enjoying SC are server issues and latency. If server meshing can help reduce that issue, then i'd rather have a downscaled 4.0 than delaying it another year
I dont think the other items were fluff though. I believe during an ISC they mentioned that the current transit system doesn't work with server meshing and it need a complete rework. If transit is broken upon 4.0 release which include shuttle service to the space port and elevators. 4.0 is not going to be an enjoyable experience. Good luck getting to Pyro when you cannot even get to the space port.
Exactly. Server jank is the main thing preventing most from enjoying the game right now. Adding engineering now for the sake of checkboxes and pushing back SM to Q1/Q2 2025 would have been a huge mistake.
@@MSFTJustice i believe that the transit system does not play well when crossing server boundaries in a meshed environment. however the initial meshed environments will be 'big' aka one server for all of microtech, one for hurston and it's moons ect ect. thus if the transit systems dont have a situation where they cross from one server to another then they will work as intended (and probably work better than before since we should get better server FPS and stable performance overall). Re-doing the transit refractor will become priority number one when they start adding more and more servers to smaller areas (if New Babbage itself is running on 2 servers for example) - i think they may wait to completely rewrite the code for transit refractor to tie in with dynamic meshing
Drastically increased player count and hopefully much smoother servers, tbh even if that was just getting added to Stanton without the addition on Pyro I'd be up for it
Thanks for this update 😊 Don't know if it was mentioned before, but you have a very nice voice to listen to. Always enjoy your live streams and video's
I think the just upsetting removal is the transit system. Without it, people might just be stuck in habs. I'll be waiting to play 4.0 until I've heard people can actually reach their ships, which would be an improvement just over the current Live version.
Just want server meshing so I can play on more than 2fps servers. The gameplay, however rudimentary, is still unlike anything else. Thanks for the vid, Tomato, always reliable.
They may not be better right from the start. I'm evo and it has been rough but because it's evo atm it's really hard to say if all that will get fixed before live or if it will still need ironing out. I will say it is at least working. It's just a matter of time.
They need to not drop Save Stanton at the same time as the Expo and the Free Fly. It just brings more problems every time they try to do two events at one time. I can't imagine it's a good idea to bring in freefly people when the servers are crap.
IT's marketing trying to use a global event to draw new players in during the free fly. They do it every event, usually just recycling Xenothreat, siege on Orison, Jumptown, this is just a new one to add to the cycle of events.
I want gameplay but I want Star Citizen 1.0. Ultimately their job is to get to that point, and all the interim stops they take to make a game while they make a game just slows things down. I am 100% fine with them refocusing on the core technical framework for 4.0, giving us server meshing, and opening Pro, and then punting the rest.
Server Meshing will be almost entirely overshadowed by the buggy state of the game. The game is clearly an alpha and bugfixing is often done at the end of the development cycle, but even if you keep that in mind, you'd expect way more from a game that's already 14 years in development. They can't and shouldn't polish everything prematurely, but the game really needs to make sure that basic interactions work. Things like picking up boxes, drinking a water bottle or calling for an elevator should not be as broken as they currently are.
I think players want more game play but want current play to be not buggy. For 3.24.1 and 3.24.2 I get "We are not able to deal with your request at this time" where I have zero access to my hanger or inventory. Unacceptable! Id be very happy if we were back with 3.22 where I could actually play.
I saw this coming from a mile away. They never live up to their expectations or promises for features on release date. Either by delay or how the feature actually functions. Cargo is a big hint and 3.18. The only thing that even releases on time is ships.
The latter half of this year has been nothing but rough hurdles for CIG to get over. Cargo elevators definitely caused a lot more trouble than they anticipated, causing delays in getting 4.0 tested. And then 3.24.2 has been causing nothing but problems with its performance issues. Hopefully they can get these issues sorted out in time for a 4.0 release before end of year, though from what I have seen of 4.0 its testing seems to be going a little smoother than the current patch has.
Those were two were probably the last two massive changes to the game engine: instanced locations and server meshing. It was rough getting them next to each other, but next year should be a lot smoother. I expect the jump from static to dynamic server meshing should be a lot smaller than from no server meshing to static server meshing.
As much as we don't like seeing features pulled back, I view this as a good thing. The latest patch is a buggy mess and it has 4.0 code. CIG focusing their time to get server meshing right will ultimately be to everyone's benefit. It is important they stand and deliver to help restore some backer confidence.
We've said that CIG would only get 4.0 out this year if they stripped it way down and released a 4.0 in Name Only. Sadly we were right yet again. CIG continues to over promise in lead up to sales events, then under deliver afterwards...
I dont think 4.0 got gutted. They made the choice to keep cooking certain features that needed more work instead of letting those features hold up the rest of the patch. This lets them fit in more medical gowns per medical gown
engineering, fire, etc is not fluff. its the difference between a next gen game and old school boring. But its important to focus on server meshing and get it stable enough.
@korbentherhino i did not call them fluff nore belittle their importance. I called them features, but that i agree with the practice of getting out the features that are ready and delaying the ones that aren't instead of pushing back the entire patch and serving it as a big late meal.....also i made a joke about medical gowns because they are superior space clothing
6:06 "This update [4.0] is coming this year, whether it wants to or not" Space Tomato, Nov 2024. At this point you should just do your streams with a big glass of Kool-Aid on your desk. You can label it Copium.
I think this is definitely a good thing. There are SO MANY new features getting pushed out currently that the patches are getting huge and unmanageable. This can cause development issues. It's better to split into monthly smaller patches than huge quarterly ones, and this is what CIG has been doing by pushing out the 3.24 dot patches on a monthly-ish basis at this time. So, just think of the 4.0 features pushback as splitting 4.0 into a batch of smaller, more manageable patches.
Another thing to remember and this one is Big the mission system refactor when you don't have to lose a mission to a server error crash or just logging out is huge
Honestly I want meshing to come in SOLID and then have the other features come in as they're ready. I agree that we need to have systems put in first, and THEN get stability, but when we have serious tech like meshing and optimized mesh server:player::shard ratio to get in, these need to be the priority, so we have a solid foundation to add on. then we can put in features that screw with stability, and then have them polished.
I really like your video. you talk in-depth, in details and pros and cons. Not those famous streamers/youtubers that only sht on the game for drama clickbait.
You have LITERALLY the best radio voice I've ever heard. I love your channel but you should be doing something even bigger. You could be the voice of any major news organization.
This first iteration, even being static Server Meshing is KEY, to the whole ide of why we voted for going above and beyond with Star Citizen. So, despite the drop of other features, its just good they take measures they seem fit. To get 4.0 within New Year, so we can see what improvements this naturaly brings to what already is.
4.0 to me was always just pyro and Server meshing the real Server meshing. And I think holding anything else back to make sure this all works correctly is fine to me. Engineering is the foundation all other things to come need so that needs to be a focus on itself only after pyro and meshing works correctly
Are we really that shocked? They need to be realistic and get server meshing working flawlessly before promising anything else. Once the tech is rock solid then they can add in everything else. Great video Sir Tomato! Welcome back to the states.🙂
I've been a long understanding of what it will take to get where they want to go and often get my hopes up for things to just go smoothly. I've hyped friends up and let them down many times. Truth is, Non of this project is standard, the dev time, the problems, the forward facing of it all. the internal projects and the cuts, every game has a lot of stuff that is pitched and worked on only to be cut or comes years later as DLC or remasters, we just only ever see traces in the deep dives of the code in released games or the features come later, there is always plenty of cut items and content. It just stings more with Star Citizen because we see it happen in real time. We have an idea of what they want to do and know things have to change based on the needs of the new tech. That new tech takes insane R&D that we are seeing first hand. I'm extremely patient but that patience is not infallible, still I would rather them gut a patch if it meant a push to have a groundbreaking feature that sets SC apart from all else. Reality is we are on the cusp of that groundbreaking push. We've seen it before in SC and it's happening again. We have to sit back through the growing pains and watch as it grows. I could die tomorrow and be happy to see something another generation can benefit from it. 3D gaming has only been around for a short time in the scope of technological life and we treat it as it's all standardized when really it's still growing. A lot of those who saw those first games and even PC's are not around today to see what they became and that should open some eyes.
At this point all that matters to me is server meshing, even if they pulled Pyro but server meshing worked I'd be happy. It's the most important piece of tech that's holding back SO MUCH in this game. We just need server meshing to work.
I had a feeling something like this would occur. Such a large amount of features at the end of an already rough year update wise for CIG to be all released at the same time could easily be 3.18 levels of botched. While I am disappointed that features were taken off 4.0 I am also of a mind of "just get stability in this game" Server meshing is crucial if we're gonna hope to have events like Xenothreat working well enough for everyone or being able play in larger groups without risks of major disruptions due to server lag. 4.0 needs to work technically speaking, then we can add the fluff later.
Hey homie, LNC-WaterdropGirl here Great vid! I doubt anyone would disagree with you about server meshing being the most make or break thing that cig has been working on since day 1 of development. Besides Pyro, the only thing I've cared about for a long time is the depth of gameplay. I personally prefer to fill the combat medic role, and even if 1.0 was only server meshing and a much greater depth of gameplay in Stanton, with no Pyro or anything else, I'd be happy with that. Emergent gameplay is awesome but it's not for everyone and the sooner we get greater depth into the game the more SC will thrive imo
It's coming. Still going to be years before it's in any shape that we'd like. It's still alpha, and it's still alpha for foreseeable future. I won't be playing it any time soon, but I have dozens of games until this game finally gets to a stable beta.
Now the exact opposite will happen: SQ42 will not be released because PU is not playable enough to be proposed to those who after SQ42 will be interested in getting the online version. And in this dog chasing its tail, this crap will never end
Solid, balanced take as I expected. I'll hop into 4.0 simply because I told myself that's when I would play next, and since it's a milestone. But I don't think I'll last long....so hopefully Engineering comes in a 4.0.x patch, or it's gonna be another undefined break from me.
I agree that they really just need to get the game itself up and running smoothly. Then start to bring out things like base building and other large projects later like a DLC (free). But I feel as more and more money has come in, instead of focusing on the game itself, they focus on adding more to the game "because they can"...
This a good move on CIG's part. We all want ALL of the good stuff in as few patches as possible , and if you think about it you will see that a big patch with lots of cool stuff means a lot of bugs and a game that crawls, stalls, and flops. What we should be asking for is smaller patches that are more easily debugged and cleaned up. that will mean faster implementation of the features in the long run, and a much more stable platform. lets take it one feature at a time(with it's related features and game play where needed) and get it running right then move to the next. look at 3.24.2 . How long will it take to get this one patch running right? 4.0 will be huge, just with server meshing and pyro, but its probably as small as they can get it. you can bet that when it goes live it will be worse than 3.24.2. it's going to be fun and we will all b*tch, but it will be great. then we can repeat the cycle for 4.1with engineering.
Was saying this 6 months ago, that to get 4.0 out before Xmas, they had to remove the feature creep that was happening, and now at the 11th hour, CIG has woken up to it. For those who don't know, 4.0 was suppose to drop prior to CitizernCon, which is why there was very little talk about 4.0 at the event. If you listen carefully to several of the panels, they say "now you have 4.0 in your hands" !!!!! My hope is we get 4.0 before Xmas, everyone gets a good break, then late Jan, early Feb, CIG start working up the 4.0.1 patch and start to bring in the removed features - by then, the dev's should have a good idea of what works, what doesn't and how many player die to elevators.
"First time?" This is exactly why I stopped looking forward to the release of anything from CIG for quite a while now. Just play what is already available at any point, and keep from paying any attention to 'news' regarding releases. History has shown me that getting your hopes up for the next 'big release' of Star Citizen only leads to pain in the end. Every. Single. Time.
I know a lot of people just want more gameplay, but I would be completely satisfied with what's there if the servers could just be responsive. I don't wanna have to hop servers 15 times to find one that isn't running terribly. I would have no complaints about this game if they would just finish server meshing. I'm not a long-time backer or anything. I only discovered this game about half a year ago. I've barely had a chance to explore what's already present in the game and it's always been a battle. From my experience, 90% of the gameplay is doing bug workarounds. If CiG just got the game running decently I would have no complaints and I would be eager to check out the new stuff they add. Instead they're adding new stuff first and neglecting the content that's present.
4.0 main thing is server meshing and Pyro That's the main thing they need to do... anything beyond that is just a funny little bonus They need to focus on Server meshing above everything
I expected engineering not to drop in 4.0 and rather with a 4.X I have to say, mostly because they have to put it into all the ships with interior. Lazily throwing in some random fire extinguishers & fuses is the easiest thing on the list to achieve that.
I think rich tyrer called a meeting ans said. If a feature is not hard coded into 4.0 we are pushing it to another patch. personally I'm glad he did. We NEED progress.
I think its for the best they are only adding in Pyro and server meshing. Which sounds like it should help server stability and boost that FPS. If with this we get a more stable and solid experience I'm cool with that.
It's disappointing to see those features dropped, but I'd rather they do that than put yet another thing in that breaks and makes the experience worse. And there is a lot of potential for terrible things happening with those features. Imagine life support not working so you never have oxygen in your ship. Imagine a bug where wear and tear break your ship within 15 minutes, and another bug that won't let you actually fix anything. Fires that can't be put out. It would be a terrible, unplayable experience. 4.0, Jump Points, and Server Meshing is still a huge step forward for the game and I'm looking forward to it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the live build slows down significantly and gets a lot of bug fixes and the ptu and Evo are treated the way that live was previously. They need a stable PU when squadrons launches even if it isn’t done yet
Back then the big patch for server meshing was about that alone. Then They got carried aways like usual and promised so much more. Hope keeps selling I guess. I'm here, after 10+ years of waiting (2012 backer here), still waiting for the game to have the major systems that will make the game fun. Still waiting I suppose ? After 4.0 They really need to accelerate the main features (Ingineering, components management, fire, base-building (small ones), etc).
I would have loved to see all of the gameplay additions released in 4.0, but how happy would we be if if pyro and server meshing were delayed for it, or worse, rushed out as an unplayable mess? Better to focus on the core update, get the meshing working on live and letting us experience a new system with the current gameplay performing better than ever. That's what will give me real confidence going forward. That said, cig do seem to underestimate timescales with regularity, either delaying releases or rushing out patches to hit sales imposed deadlines. It can be a hard thing to judge and the unexpected happens to the best of us, but it would be nice to see some improvement there.
server meshing working, and base building are the next 2 milestones that will bring me back. Everything else I can wait for. I will not install again until those 2 things are sorted
I'm very worried about the codebase Star Citizen is compiled from. 12 years of feature creep will absolutely decimate any codebase. I can only imagine how much completely unfixable technical debt they've accumulated in that time.
I can't wait to get into star citizen. Mostly because I just wanna play already, but also because I FINALLY get to forge my own opinions! I don't wanna just sit here and listen to how much this feature sucks or that feature isn't worth it or I think tbings should be done this way or I think it should be done that way or so on and so fourth. I want to be able to really get a feel for how bady something sucks, or how great something else is! but above all else... I just wanna be another star citizen!
I just happy if they can get 500 people on a sharde in Star Citizen that is big win even though we have seen a larger group but it is a start. Two CIG has too Prioritise these things and cannot delay any further and to me is 4.0, SQ 42 and improving Server Meshing that is it for next year they need anything else and bug fixes.
If they can get server meshing on LIVE before the end of the year and have it be stable I'll have no issue waiting for the other stuff. I'd love to get my bestie into the game but right now it's simply too unstable.
If server meshing aka the promised land significantly improves stability / performance, this will still easily be the best patch so far. If it doesn’t, a lot of wind will fall out of the projects sails imo.
As long as they focus on getting the last of the core tech out so they can just build all the add-ins and not worry about adapting a huge backlog of features. They're bad enough with ships, still waiting for my Odyssey.
CIG should adopt the Scotty method. Tell that it takes 4 times what you think it takes and astonish everybody when you do it faster. Right now CIG only fails its own deadlines... making them look incompetent.
Code changes need to be small and very incremental. Without this kind of deployment discipline, we get the situation we have now in the LIVE environment and 3.18. Ripping out engineering is the right call. Steady as she goes.
It definitely sucks, but I also don't think the hyperbole surrounding much of this is warranted. It's so much more important to get Server Meshing out and into the live environment so that it's development can continue towards Dynamic Server Meshing. Delaying that development due to the testing of features just isn't worth it for the games long term development. And it's not like it's delaying features that haven't started development. Those things are just not going into the final phase before release. They're built, they've been tested, we even have played Engineering in the Arena Commander Experimental Modes. So if anything it just means that the Q1 patch for 2025 won't be a whole lot of nothing, and the teams working on these features will have that much more time to get them into a better state for the final QA checks and the into Evo and beyond. It sucks, but it's a small delay for a good reason because the alternative is delaying Server Meshing development and the version of Server Meshing we really want/need, Dynamic.
i am honst i hopte that 4.0 will have this all into so its a proper point to returen, not sure if i will wait know for 4.1.... or so. but a new systme shuld birng a lot more missen, and at least 3 or 5 misson like the prions tranpsort or 890 jump misson. or even more handbuild stuff. but its nice we see 4.0! lets hope this make the game a litte faster and yes the faction are in it and reputaion plays a role.
Server meshing is the pizza base where all other updates stack on. Server meshing will give Star Citizen so much more stability. I am sick of dyeing randomly and lose so much progression and money along the way. And saying good bye to Area 18 and taking a looong journey to wander around in Pyro is all i want.
I just want meshing and to stop hearing about it. it has been the last hurtle to really filling out the game. For 6 years. I still think they will have it in ptu if nothing else by the end of the year. And once it's done they can finally move forward with a lot of other things. The foundation needs to get in to properly build the rest. I Also think one thing a lot of players will get surprised about is when they get higher fps and the AI is actually good. This may be a precursor that a lot of other things may suddenly work as advertised
Personally, i always looked at 4.0 as nothing put server meshing and Pyro. I would rather cig be honest to us and pump out fairly stable features and push them when need be to ensure it is playable by 90ish% of the player base and push it back when needed.
Personally, I think this is the smart move. Get the stable stuff in, it will be a whole new experience and then patch in the other systems. This will be a groundbreaking patch regardless.
I mean, extinguish fire, enginerring and all that stuff is not a big deal, i can only care for server meshing and pyro! You can't properly do a mission because servers delays and npcs behaving so bad, is so annoying, so for me if we want to play well, server meshing is key!
None of it matters if they can't get Server Meshing to function as they intend. Everything they've shown and all their hard work is predicated on that one simple fact. Look at the state of the servers through CitCon until now. I've waited this long, I can wait a bit longer for the stability they've promised.
All that social features with the org feature can be brought in now. I dont quite understand why its being delayed, maybe some features are still being ironed out?
I think a lot of the emotion surrounding 4.0 is indicative of the year at large and the amount of time this update has taken. There's a lot to consider beyond just the features in questions. Regardless, we'll all be better off moving past 4.0 lol. Thanks for watching!
If they don't star to deliver content when server mashing is ingame, I lose my hope
I rolled my eyes and thought typical CIG, but tbh a lot of the playerbase has wanted them to sort out performance and stop chasing lofty goals at least for a little bit, restricting 4.0 just to getting the second star system and meshing in, ultimately is smart, then take a quarter to unfck the innevitable jank that will come with it, and throw some extra bits in on top of a hopefully non janky base.
This is quite literally them doing what people wanted, slow down on new content and focus on performance (with Pyro)
Improved server performance will be the most widely felt change if it goes well
Yup, the past several months everyone was raging that they wanted more stability.. and when CIG takes the path that would offer the most stability, everyone is raging that new features were postponed.
Nevermind that all these new features weren't ever committed on the release view. You'd think people understood what that means by now.
hopefully it actually is stable when it releases then or it will have been a waste
We're always reminded that not everyone is on server meshing. all the ship teams and art teams and planet teams and mission teams.... suddenly everyone is on server meshing. how convenient. if server is late, then we're told that the rest of the company is not to blame, if the rest of the company is late, we're told because they are focusing on meshing. CIG has an excuse no matter the situation
Would have been smarter if they hadn’t blown smoke up everyone’s ass at CitCon 2953, but here we are.
If server meshing means game stability, it will be huge for Star Citizen. If not, then it'll be more of the same.
I assume we'll be battling at least the next year with new server meshing related bugs but maybe it will get better after that.
No its not
Will it make it more stable or less stable? Yes.
At first things will get rougher. But as they work out the bugs it will slowly make it far more stable than it ever was.
@@csdigitaldesign Like always i said; SC is dead already, only the fans didnt realize that fact. 4.0 is an empty shell, it just gives false sense of hype
@@TipsizAdam3535 lmao shut up, you dimwit.
Getting server meshing and 4.0 ready and out will be huge for CIG and honestly I think it's worth sacrificing a few features to a later 4.0.x patch. Ngl, I did feel a little sad with seeing things delayed again, but if it's needed.. fine.
This is where I am. I am sad the features I was looking forward to most are delayed, but if they are doing it to provide better performance for the future I'm fine with it. But if that's why then that's what should be getting done not this rush to the sales from the past year.
not be a dick sever mesh is not going fix it ,we get more players but not going to fix how degraded the game become in the last 5 years
My only complaint is that now instead of being excited to start playing again with 4.0, I have to wait for a few 4.0.x/4.1 patches
Let's hope the stuff will come in a 4.0.x patch and not simply vanish like it has in the past.
Agreed.
Server meshing and Pyro are gonna be the most important. If they need to cut some fluff and delay some features to get it through, im more than happy with it
The main thing keeping me from enjoying SC are server issues and latency. If server meshing can help reduce that issue, then i'd rather have a downscaled 4.0 than delaying it another year
I dont think the other items were fluff though. I believe during an ISC they mentioned that the current transit system doesn't work with server meshing and it need a complete rework. If transit is broken upon 4.0 release which include shuttle service to the space port and elevators. 4.0 is not going to be an enjoyable experience. Good luck getting to Pyro when you cannot even get to the space port.
Exactly. Server jank is the main thing preventing most from enjoying the game right now. Adding engineering now for the sake of checkboxes and pushing back SM to Q1/Q2 2025 would have been a huge mistake.
@@MSFTJustice i believe that the transit system does not play well when crossing server boundaries in a meshed environment. however the initial meshed environments will be 'big' aka one server for all of microtech, one for hurston and it's moons ect ect. thus if the transit systems dont have a situation where they cross from one server to another then they will work as intended (and probably work better than before since we should get better server FPS and stable performance overall). Re-doing the transit refractor will become priority number one when they start adding more and more servers to smaller areas (if New Babbage itself is running on 2 servers for example) - i think they may wait to completely rewrite the code for transit refractor to tie in with dynamic meshing
@geoff1235 we can hope.
Yeah it is a bummer but what we've seen so far with your Evo live streams they're making pretty good progress despite the delay.
Drastically increased player count and hopefully much smoother servers, tbh even if that was just getting added to Stanton without the addition on Pyro I'd be up for it
I bet a lot of people would have a lot more patience for updates with smoother servers alone.
Thanks for this update 😊
Don't know if it was mentioned before, but you have a very nice voice to listen to. Always enjoy your live streams and video's
Has Definitely heard that before.
Im happy that they are finally focusing on stability rather than new features. Atleast for now, stability is what we ACTUALLY need
I think the just upsetting removal is the transit system. Without it, people might just be stuck in habs. I'll be waiting to play 4.0 until I've heard people can actually reach their ships, which would be an improvement just over the current Live version.
Agreed!
Just want server meshing so I can play on more than 2fps servers. The gameplay, however rudimentary, is still unlike anything else. Thanks for the vid, Tomato, always reliable.
They may not be better right from the start. I'm evo and it has been rough but because it's evo atm it's really hard to say if all that will get fixed before live or if it will still need ironing out. I will say it is at least working. It's just a matter of time.
They need to not drop Save Stanton at the same time as the Expo and the Free Fly. It just brings more problems every time they try to do two events at one time. I can't imagine it's a good idea to bring in freefly people when the servers are crap.
IT's marketing trying to use a global event to draw new players in during the free fly. They do it every event, usually just recycling Xenothreat, siege on Orison, Jumptown, this is just a new one to add to the cycle of events.
I want gameplay but I want Star Citizen 1.0. Ultimately their job is to get to that point, and all the interim stops they take to make a game while they make a game just slows things down. I am 100% fine with them refocusing on the core technical framework for 4.0, giving us server meshing, and opening Pro, and then punting the rest.
Server Meshing will be almost entirely overshadowed by the buggy state of the game. The game is clearly an alpha and bugfixing is often done at the end of the development cycle, but even if you keep that in mind, you'd expect way more from a game that's already 14 years in development. They can't and shouldn't polish everything prematurely, but the game really needs to make sure that basic interactions work. Things like picking up boxes, drinking a water bottle or calling for an elevator should not be as broken as they currently are.
Very circumspect reporting, good Tomatoes. This is, I think, the best video on this subject in terms of the context provided.
All i want for christmas is server meshing
I think players want more game play but want current play to be not buggy. For 3.24.1 and 3.24.2 I get "We are not able to deal with your request at this time" where I have zero access to my hanger or inventory. Unacceptable! Id be very happy if we were back with 3.22 where I could actually play.
I saw this coming from a mile away. They never live up to their expectations or promises for features on release date. Either by delay or how the feature actually functions. Cargo is a big hint and 3.18. The only thing that even releases on time is ships.
The latter half of this year has been nothing but rough hurdles for CIG to get over. Cargo elevators definitely caused a lot more trouble than they anticipated, causing delays in getting 4.0 tested. And then 3.24.2 has been causing nothing but problems with its performance issues.
Hopefully they can get these issues sorted out in time for a 4.0 release before end of year, though from what I have seen of 4.0 its testing seems to be going a little smoother than the current patch has.
Those were two were probably the last two massive changes to the game engine: instanced locations and server meshing. It was rough getting them next to each other, but next year should be a lot smoother. I expect the jump from static to dynamic server meshing should be a lot smaller than from no server meshing to static server meshing.
Idk, I feel like 3.23 was a great success and went well. Now after that it’s been rough but such is development.
As much as we don't like seeing features pulled back, I view this as a good thing. The latest patch is a buggy mess and it has 4.0 code. CIG focusing their time to get server meshing right will ultimately be to everyone's benefit. It is important they stand and deliver to help restore some backer confidence.
We've said that CIG would only get 4.0 out this year if they stripped it way down and released a 4.0 in Name Only. Sadly we were right yet again. CIG continues to over promise in lead up to sales events, then under deliver afterwards...
I dont think 4.0 got gutted. They made the choice to keep cooking certain features that needed more work instead of letting those features hold up the rest of the patch. This lets them fit in more medical gowns per medical gown
engineering, fire, etc is not fluff. its the difference between a next gen game and old school boring. But its important to focus on server meshing and get it stable enough.
@korbentherhino i did not call them fluff nore belittle their importance. I called them features, but that i agree with the practice of getting out the features that are ready and delaying the ones that aren't instead of pushing back the entire patch and serving it as a big late meal.....also i made a joke about medical gowns because they are superior space clothing
Being a content creator for this game has to be rough. Let down. After let down.
I don't need my shit to break more so I'm ok with never putting engineering and fires in
the rejection of tram and elevator refactor for server meshing concerns me alot - its just a bare minimum 4.0 patch.
6:06 "This update [4.0] is coming this year, whether it wants to or not" Space Tomato, Nov 2024.
At this point you should just do your streams with a big glass of Kool-Aid on your desk. You can label it Copium.
"It is known" is such an underrated reference 😂 I love it!
I think this is definitely a good thing. There are SO MANY new features getting pushed out currently that the patches are getting huge and unmanageable. This can cause development issues. It's better to split into monthly smaller patches than huge quarterly ones, and this is what CIG has been doing by pushing out the 3.24 dot patches on a monthly-ish basis at this time. So, just think of the 4.0 features pushback as splitting 4.0 into a batch of smaller, more manageable patches.
Another thing to remember and this one is Big the mission system refactor when you don't have to lose a mission to a server error crash or just logging out is huge
First 5 seconds of your video all I can think is “Dearly beloved we are gathered here today to remember the prospective features lost from 4.0.”
Thanks to you too. Glad to be here.
you have such a smooth voice. could fall asleep to it. not that i fall asleep to your videos or anything lol.
Honestly I want meshing to come in SOLID and then have the other features come in as they're ready. I agree that we need to have systems put in first, and THEN get stability, but when we have serious tech like meshing and optimized mesh server:player::shard ratio to get in, these need to be the priority, so we have a solid foundation to add on. then we can put in features that screw with stability, and then have them polished.
We all want server meshing to succeed, good to see your logical analysis going forward
thanks tomato always awesome to follow the news with you
I really like your video. you talk in-depth, in details and pros and cons. Not those famous streamers/youtubers that only sht on the game for drama clickbait.
You have LITERALLY the best radio voice I've ever heard. I love your channel but you should be doing something even bigger. You could be the voice of any major news organization.
Love you guys ❤
Nice update! We appreciate you and your level headed takes!!
This first iteration, even being static Server Meshing is KEY, to the whole ide of why we voted for going above and beyond with Star Citizen. So, despite the drop of other features, its just good they take measures they seem fit. To get 4.0 within New Year, so we can see what improvements this naturaly brings to what already is.
4.0 to me was always just pyro and Server meshing the real Server meshing. And I think holding anything else back to make sure this all works correctly is fine to me. Engineering is the foundation all other things to come need so that needs to be a focus on itself only after pyro and meshing works correctly
SC best content creator hands down. Well done brada. I have been following SC for years. Enjoy your stuff
Are we really that shocked? They need to be realistic and get server meshing working flawlessly before promising anything else. Once the tech is rock solid then they can add in everything else. Great video Sir Tomato! Welcome back to the states.🙂
I've been a long understanding of what it will take to get where they want to go and often get my hopes up for things to just go smoothly. I've hyped friends up and let them down many times. Truth is, Non of this project is standard, the dev time, the problems, the forward facing of it all. the internal projects and the cuts, every game has a lot of stuff that is pitched and worked on only to be cut or comes years later as DLC or remasters, we just only ever see traces in the deep dives of the code in released games or the features come later, there is always plenty of cut items and content. It just stings more with Star Citizen because we see it happen in real time. We have an idea of what they want to do and know things have to change based on the needs of the new tech. That new tech takes insane R&D that we are seeing first hand. I'm extremely patient but that patience is not infallible, still I would rather them gut a patch if it meant a push to have a groundbreaking feature that sets SC apart from all else. Reality is we are on the cusp of that groundbreaking push. We've seen it before in SC and it's happening again. We have to sit back through the growing pains and watch as it grows. I could die tomorrow and be happy to see something another generation can benefit from it. 3D gaming has only been around for a short time in the scope of technological life and we treat it as it's all standardized when really it's still growing. A lot of those who saw those first games and even PC's are not around today to see what they became and that should open some eyes.
At this point all that matters to me is server meshing, even if they pulled Pyro but server meshing worked I'd be happy. It's the most important piece of tech that's holding back SO MUCH in this game. We just need server meshing to work.
Im very skeptical of the engineering gameplay. It shouldn't be tedious to do - I'm glad they are taking a longer time to test it properly.
I had a feeling something like this would occur. Such a large amount of features at the end of an already rough year update wise for CIG to be all released at the same time could easily be 3.18 levels of botched. While I am disappointed that features were taken off 4.0 I am also of a mind of "just get stability in this game" Server meshing is crucial if we're gonna hope to have events like Xenothreat working well enough for everyone or being able play in larger groups without risks of major disruptions due to server lag.
4.0 needs to work technically speaking, then we can add the fluff later.
Hey homie, LNC-WaterdropGirl here
Great vid! I doubt anyone would disagree with you about server meshing being the most make or break thing that cig has been working on since day 1 of development. Besides Pyro, the only thing I've cared about for a long time is the depth of gameplay. I personally prefer to fill the combat medic role, and even if 1.0 was only server meshing and a much greater depth of gameplay in Stanton, with no Pyro or anything else, I'd be happy with that. Emergent gameplay is awesome but it's not for everyone and the sooner we get greater depth into the game the more SC will thrive imo
It's coming. Still going to be years before it's in any shape that we'd like. It's still alpha, and it's still alpha for foreseeable future. I won't be playing it any time soon, but I have dozens of games until this game finally gets to a stable beta.
Now the exact opposite will happen: SQ42 will not be released because PU is not playable enough to be proposed to those who after SQ42 will be interested in getting the online version. And in this dog chasing its tail, this crap will never end
Solid, balanced take as I expected.
I'll hop into 4.0 simply because I told myself that's when I would play next, and since it's a milestone. But I don't think I'll last long....so hopefully Engineering comes in a 4.0.x patch, or it's gonna be another undefined break from me.
I agree that they really just need to get the game itself up and running smoothly. Then start to bring out things like base building and other large projects later like a DLC (free). But I feel as more and more money has come in, instead of focusing on the game itself, they focus on adding more to the game "because they can"...
This a good move on CIG's part. We all want ALL of the good stuff in as few patches as possible , and if you think about it you will see that a big patch with lots of cool stuff means a lot of bugs and a game that crawls, stalls, and flops. What we should be asking for is smaller patches that are more easily debugged and cleaned up. that will mean faster implementation of the features in the long run, and a much more stable platform. lets take it one feature at a time(with it's related features and game play where needed) and get it running right then move to the next. look at 3.24.2 . How long will it take to get this one patch running right? 4.0 will be huge, just with server meshing and pyro, but its probably as small as they can get it. you can bet that when it goes live it will be worse than 3.24.2. it's going to be fun and we will all b*tch, but it will be great. then we can repeat the cycle for 4.1with engineering.
Was saying this 6 months ago, that to get 4.0 out before Xmas, they had to remove the feature creep that was happening, and now at the 11th hour, CIG has woken up to it.
For those who don't know, 4.0 was suppose to drop prior to CitizernCon, which is why there was very little talk about 4.0 at the event. If you listen carefully to several of the panels, they say "now you have 4.0 in your hands" !!!!! My hope is we get 4.0 before Xmas, everyone gets a good break, then late Jan, early Feb, CIG start working up the 4.0.1 patch and start to bring in the removed features - by then, the dev's should have a good idea of what works, what doesn't and how many player die to elevators.
4.0 just needs to have server meshing and Pyro... or even just server meshing
That should be primary focus
"First time?"
This is exactly why I stopped looking forward to the release of anything from CIG for quite a while now. Just play what is already available at any point, and keep from paying any attention to 'news' regarding releases. History has shown me that getting your hopes up for the next 'big release' of Star Citizen only leads to pain in the end. Every. Single. Time.
Man you just gotta call it how it is sometimes and say they dropped the ball, hold them accountable
Awesome content! very entertaining!
I know a lot of people just want more gameplay, but I would be completely satisfied with what's there if the servers could just be responsive. I don't wanna have to hop servers 15 times to find one that isn't running terribly. I would have no complaints about this game if they would just finish server meshing.
I'm not a long-time backer or anything. I only discovered this game about half a year ago. I've barely had a chance to explore what's already present in the game and it's always been a battle. From my experience, 90% of the gameplay is doing bug workarounds. If CiG just got the game running decently I would have no complaints and I would be eager to check out the new stuff they add. Instead they're adding new stuff first and neglecting the content that's present.
4.0 main thing is server meshing and Pyro
That's the main thing they need to do... anything beyond that is just a funny little bonus
They need to focus on Server meshing above everything
I expected engineering not to drop in 4.0 and rather with a 4.X I have to say, mostly because they have to put it into all the ships with interior. Lazily throwing in some random fire extinguishers & fuses is the easiest thing on the list to achieve that.
I think rich tyrer called a meeting ans said. If a feature is not hard coded into 4.0 we are pushing it to another patch. personally I'm glad he did. We NEED progress.
I think its for the best they are only adding in Pyro and server meshing. Which sounds like it should help server stability and boost that FPS. If with this we get a more stable and solid experience I'm cool with that.
It's disappointing to see those features dropped, but I'd rather they do that than put yet another thing in that breaks and makes the experience worse. And there is a lot of potential for terrible things happening with those features. Imagine life support not working so you never have oxygen in your ship. Imagine a bug where wear and tear break your ship within 15 minutes, and another bug that won't let you actually fix anything. Fires that can't be put out. It would be a terrible, unplayable experience.
4.0, Jump Points, and Server Meshing is still a huge step forward for the game and I'm looking forward to it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the live build slows down significantly and gets a lot of bug fixes and the ptu and Evo are treated the way that live was previously. They need a stable PU when squadrons launches even if it isn’t done yet
Back then the big patch for server meshing was about that alone. Then They got carried aways like usual and promised so much more. Hope keeps selling I guess.
I'm here, after 10+ years of waiting (2012 backer here), still waiting for the game to have the major systems that will make the game fun. Still waiting I suppose ?
After 4.0 They really need to accelerate the main features (Ingineering, components management, fire, base-building (small ones), etc).
I would have loved to see all of the gameplay additions released in 4.0, but how happy would we be if if pyro and server meshing were delayed for it, or worse, rushed out as an unplayable mess?
Better to focus on the core update, get the meshing working on live and letting us experience a new system with the current gameplay performing better than ever. That's what will give me real confidence going forward.
That said, cig do seem to underestimate timescales with regularity, either delaying releases or rushing out patches to hit sales imposed deadlines. It can be a hard thing to judge and the unexpected happens to the best of us, but it would be nice to see some improvement there.
server meshing working, and base building are the next 2 milestones that will bring me back. Everything else I can wait for. I will not install again until those 2 things are sorted
I'm very worried about the codebase Star Citizen is compiled from. 12 years of feature creep will absolutely decimate any codebase. I can only imagine how much completely unfixable technical debt they've accumulated in that time.
thanks for the quick news
Wooohooo watching one of the Tomato videos under the 1 hour mark, i feel good :D
I can't wait to get into star citizen. Mostly because I just wanna play already, but also because I FINALLY get to forge my own opinions!
I don't wanna just sit here and listen to how much this feature sucks or that feature isn't worth it or I think tbings should be done this way or I think it should be done that way or so on and so fourth.
I want to be able to really get a feel for how bady something sucks, or how great something else is!
but above all else... I just wanna be another star citizen!
I just happy if they can get 500 people on a sharde in Star Citizen that is big win even though we have seen a larger group but it is a start. Two CIG has too Prioritise these things and cannot delay any further and to me is 4.0, SQ 42 and improving Server Meshing that is it for next year they need anything else and bug fixes.
ive always said since buying the game in 2020, focus on stability, add other shit later.
it doesnt need to be 100+ features every update.
If they can get server meshing on LIVE before the end of the year and have it be stable I'll have no issue waiting for the other stuff. I'd love to get my bestie into the game but right now it's simply too unstable.
If server meshing aka the promised land significantly improves stability / performance, this will still easily be the best patch so far. If it doesn’t, a lot of wind will fall out of the projects sails imo.
As long as they focus on getting the last of the core tech out so they can just build all the add-ins and not worry about adapting a huge backlog of features. They're bad enough with ships, still waiting for my Odyssey.
I thought that 4.0 would be delayed to Q2, but I was wrong, they just need to cut half of the patch and they are one time!
CIG should adopt the Scotty method. Tell that it takes 4 times what you think it takes and astonish everybody when you do it faster. Right now CIG only fails its own deadlines... making them look incompetent.
Code changes need to be small and very incremental. Without this kind of deployment discipline, we get the situation we have now in the LIVE environment and 3.18.
Ripping out engineering is the right call. Steady as she goes.
Yea, as incremental as a moving glacier.
It definitely sucks, but I also don't think the hyperbole surrounding much of this is warranted. It's so much more important to get Server Meshing out and into the live environment so that it's development can continue towards Dynamic Server Meshing. Delaying that development due to the testing of features just isn't worth it for the games long term development. And it's not like it's delaying features that haven't started development. Those things are just not going into the final phase before release. They're built, they've been tested, we even have played Engineering in the Arena Commander Experimental Modes. So if anything it just means that the Q1 patch for 2025 won't be a whole lot of nothing, and the teams working on these features will have that much more time to get them into a better state for the final QA checks and the into Evo and beyond. It sucks, but it's a small delay for a good reason because the alternative is delaying Server Meshing development and the version of Server Meshing we really want/need, Dynamic.
Nothing is ever as good as their marketing.
There, I fixed it for you.
Ooh, I'm in Northern California. I'll make an effort to come out.!
I still don't understand how the replication layer isn't a bottleneck that will ultimately limit the number of players per shard...
Mate what we need now is server meshing. We need stability!! The rest came come when ready. The live not really playable right now.
Why would ANYONEat this stage of CIGs history be surprised at another cutback or delay
4.0 is not the only thing that was gutted, I was when they pulled the engineering! I do support them doing it from a technical standpoint though.
i am honst i hopte that 4.0 will have this all into so its a proper point to returen, not sure if i will wait know for 4.1.... or so.
but a new systme shuld birng a lot more missen, and at least 3 or 5 misson like the prions tranpsort or 890 jump misson. or even more handbuild stuff.
but its nice we see 4.0! lets hope this make the game a litte faster and yes the faction are in it and reputaion plays a role.
What a VOICE! U had me at "Hi!" 😂
Server meshing is the pizza base where all other updates stack on. Server meshing will give Star Citizen so much more stability. I am sick of dyeing randomly and lose so much progression and money along the way. And saying good bye to Area 18 and taking a looong journey to wander around in Pyro is all i want.
I just want meshing and to stop hearing about it. it has been the last hurtle to really filling out the game. For 6 years. I still think they will have it in ptu if nothing else by the end of the year. And once it's done they can finally move forward with a lot of other things. The foundation needs to get in to properly build the rest.
I Also think one thing a lot of players will get surprised about is when they get higher fps and the AI is actually good. This may be a precursor that a lot of other things may suddenly work as advertised
Personally, i always looked at 4.0 as nothing put server meshing and Pyro. I would rather cig be honest to us and pump out fairly stable features and push them when need be to ensure it is playable by 90ish% of the player base and push it back when needed.
WHY DID THAT INTRO GET ME!
My issue rn is the diversity of outposts & stations, really hope that im surprised
Personally, I think this is the smart move. Get the stable stuff in, it will be a whole new experience and then patch in the other systems. This will be a groundbreaking patch regardless.
All I was expecting for 4.0 was server meshing and pyro
I mean, extinguish fire, enginerring and all that stuff is not a big deal, i can only care for server meshing and pyro! You can't properly do a mission because servers delays and npcs behaving so bad, is so annoying, so for me if we want to play well, server meshing is key!
TBH if anyone is surprised by this they are either new or incredibly naive, everyone could've guessed it would've been pushed back.
My POV on this is, that we first need a working game, then they can add features and game loops as they please.
None of it matters if they can't get Server Meshing to function as they intend.
Everything they've shown and all their hard work is predicated on that one simple fact.
Look at the state of the servers through CitCon until now.
I've waited this long, I can wait a bit longer for the stability they've promised.
All that social features with the org feature can be brought in now. I dont quite understand why its being delayed, maybe some features are still being ironed out?