Wait what? I don't remember hearing that he hurt himself here Edit: apart from the Commentators of course But appearantly he didn't hurt himself thankfully
Just thought it would be nifty to count ledge grabs for Hbox (I don’t hate him just counted for fun) Game 1: 13 (wizzy won) Game 2: 20 (hbox won) Game 3: 93 (hbox won) Game 4: 20 (wizzy won) Game 5: 8 (hbox won) Make of that what you will
Honestly aside from game 3 this is a perfectly normal ledge grab amount. People are heavy overreacting, especially considering the amount of ledge grabs wizzy does with has dashes sometimes. That being said I don't think either player is really going too far. Not to mention that both characters have options to beat each other's camping
I'm going to be straight up as someone who doesn't take melee religiously. This set was very unentertaining, I'm not trying to discredit Hbox but that 3rd game was boring to watch. He just kept regrabing the ledge knowing full well that a Falcon is unable to do anything in that scenario, I mean I guess you do whatever you need to get the win but as a viewer this set was unentertaining and I feel personally smash should not be a camp to win game. I feel like a ledge grab limit is a healthy idea for the game. (All my opinion so don't get triggered).
Morph Ball the issue is that if Wizzy gets hit while contesting Hbox camping, he dies. Hbox just takes damage if he contests Wizzy on top platform poorly
@@zunkgrass2341 falcon can contest with Aerials offstage (stomp onstage too) and also can use tilts to counter the camping safely from on stage. Puff ledge camping doesnt invalidate any viable characters, it does invalidate low tiers but imo low tiers don't matter enough for that to be ban worthy
@@carlzabel8 It's very risky for Falcon to try to contest Puff at the ledge and at best he gets some percent advantage, he'd basically have to win 15 times to get a chance of taking a stock, while the slightest mistake will most surely cost him a stock
When people hate on Smash 4's ledge mechanics, but seem to fail to realize that the ledge mechanics were the way they are because of strategies like planking.
Well in smash 4, some characters could still somewhat do it like bayo, puff, and wii fit. Now in ult, you have a limit on ledge grabs before touching the ground.
@@BlackDeathBlade Definitely, im grateful for how they changed the airdodges in smash 4 to ultimate, made edgeguarding so much better, and now pushing people to the corner has so much more meaning.
No they're the way they are because they didn't like ledge hog. I suppose it was a bigger problem in brawl but puff is the only character that has it's risk reward skewed heavily in their favor in melee.
he had lost to wizzy all 3 times in 2019 lol he beat his toughest opponent and maintained his number one spot. I feel like you people don't go outside at all let alone do anything competitive
@@TheLuxma in competition do you do where you don't show emotion after a massive win. idk turn on a tv people cry and do alot worse than jump out of a chair. I guess things are different in the chess community you seem to be in
I play football. Of course you can pop off after a game where you've lost time, made a lot of faults and in general tried not to play the game. In fact some people do. No one likes those people. It's a matter of respect for the game over the player.
@@TheLuxma you can show respect and show human emotion and happiness. You can be be excited and respectful at the same time. Hbox literally shook his hand after he got back on the stage...hbox also raves about how much he respects and likes wizzy as a player. I literally don't know or understand where you are coming from in life or in melee
@@alex30939 actually the past year or more he's been doing it completely fine without grime. He doesn't need to camp on the ledge to get cheap potshots, Captain falcon has no recourse he has no projectile to force the fight
@Morph Ball its not about one character vs another character being ok to camp or not. Its about ledge camping and platform camping. Platform camping doesnt give you invincibility like the ledge does and challenging platform camping doesnt put you at risk of getting gimped at 0% like in ledge camping. Ledge camping is overall much more powerful and hard to deal with than platform camping.
To be fair I'm pretty sure hbox only ledge camped because wizzy plat camps him in every set they play, while I'm not defending camping, nor do I enjoy it I do think that if ones to hate on hbox for camping they should hate on wizy for doing the same thing
I don't give a fuck if people camp the top platform. Sure, it's boring, but I think it's a fair game plan. But camping on the ledge is taking it way too far. You don't get invincibility when you camp the platforms, you do every time you regrab the ledge. There's little to no counter play and the risk vs reward is absolutely terrible. You can die at zero if you try to challenge Puff on the ledge so it's not worth it.
Since the VOD didn't show it, HBOX grabbed ledge 93 times during the Dreamland game. If we want to implement a ledgegrab limit it should be around or a little below this range. Maybe 70-80.
@@Mute14_ that's why I think it would be a good number. It's pretty much impossible to get past it in normal play and not enough to the ledge to be abused a bunch.
Andres Salvat if you have a number that high as a limit we will see some workaround like dropping lower or using two or three jumps before each ledge grap
Game 3 on Dreamland was honestly a lame and boring game to watch from a spectator's point of view but I feel like wizzy and hbox did whatever it took to wintbis tourney cuz this tourney was gonna decide which of these two players would be the #1 player in the 2019 summer ranking.
Friendly reminder that Brawl had a ledgegrab limit. Usually it was around 30 to 50, with Meta Knight's being at least 10 less. I know people like to conveniently forget about that game because it's yicky or whatever, but at least take this into consideration.
In Brawl, Meta Knight could go under the stage. He had quick access to both ledges, and was a much, much better character than Melee Puff. It's not so clear that the analogy is useful.
I don't know much about melee, so pardon me if this seems uninformed, but why are people complaining about ledge grabbing? Doesn't it work somewhat similarly to 4's ledge grabbing but with regrabs?
Falcon can do almost nothing to puff when she ledge camps like that. Falcon has to risk dying from gimps just to get maybe 1 or 2 up airs. If puff gets a stock lead she can just ledge grab and it's pretty much unwinnable. And it's not just falcon. This can happen to a lot of characters.
certified cool guy they weren’t thinking anything with that, it’s a 2001 game they would’ve never thought it would be that good, this game wasn’t even meant to be played 1v1 no items and they never thought of how certain mechanics could be broken in competitive play, they had to witness how good it was in Brawl and Melee to think of a way to nerf it in Smash 4
If you know melee you know this was a really sick grand final and wizzy was able to counter the camping pretty well by game 4. GGs all around. LONG LIVE MELEE
Roy bgp Play melee, against someone good with falcon and try to get to the top plataform with a character like puff that needs three jumps. You would get punished. He was doing what he need it,
bruce While Puff’s Up Air is probably the best overall in her Melee interation (I mean her Up Air when comparing it to the other Puffs in the Smash series), the certain combos into Rest and wide-ish range don’t mean jack when she’s so slow to reach top platforms and her Up Air in painfully short in terms of vertical range, making it an easily punishable via Falcon’s Stomp. And I don’t think Puff’s Up-Air in Melee is the best. If it kept its animation but had Incineroar’s Up Air range, then I would consider it the best, but it isn’t. So Hbox having to deal with Wizzy’s own grimy camping that is pretty much unwinnable in Puff’s situation, Hbox ledge camping Wizzy after taking the lead was more than justified. In the end, both players did what they had to do to win, and I accept that. I didn’t hate what they did despite the game slowing down since I enjoy the slow methodical spacing and poking game as well as burst speedy and flashy gameplay. Both players played well, and it was a great set all around.
I was expecting worse tbh. My opinion is that ledge stalling isn't such a big deal, currently, but also it not being a big deal means little will change with a ledge grab limit so I don't see a problem with implementing one.
@@kimpachis8841 Both of them are defensive tactics that put you on advantage. Whether one is more effective than the other is irrelevant, if you want to ban scummy tactics then ban them all.
@@Hectorlo Thats not how nuance works. Like, by your logic, we should ban everything except for button mashing since any type of strategy that puts you at an advantage could be considered scummy. Then we're literally on the playground arguing about monopoly again. There is obviously a line people feel is being crossed by players who ledgecamp, just like there was a line being crossed when wobbling started to take off. Believe it or not even the granddaddy of competitive gaming, chess, had rulesets added for the sake of increasing how fun it would be, and to reward certain playstyles. The threefold repetition draw was added specifically to stop situations like ledge stalls, and to make sure the game would continue to progress.
Hectorlo Ledge gives you invincibility. I don't think Ledge grabbing should be limited or some shit, but Hbox should definitely be ashamed of himself. It's not fun to watch. And this is a spectator sport. If tournament's are this gay, less people are gonna watch, then less tournaments. It's why Melee isn't at EVO anymore.
@@Hectorlo ledge grabbing gives your invincibility frames. Ledge grabbing is also good for puff especially. If a ledge camping puff sticks to that strategy it's a 97% win for puff
It’s honestly hilarious that people only really complaining cuz hbox won. The biggest argument here a that platform camping doesn’t grant invincibility, but it’s funny cuz we all know if hbox approaches wizzy on that ledge he’s dead in 5 hits. But that’s what the majority wants so it’s the valid argument that gets the most thumbs up both played lame as hell in game 3 fuck y’all talking bout?
..And if Puff hits Falcon with one or two hits, he's dead as well. Back air spam will do it or a rest will. Platform camping is lame as fuck, and Falcon doesn't have any options for it.
Because Hungrybox Lost, And Since He Ledge Camped 93 Times Game 3, And Since Hungrybox Is So Hated By The Community Because He Plays Defensively, A Lot Of People Disliked The Vod
I don't care about all the smash drama surrounding hbox since I just like watching people play but I don't like watching hbox sets because he forces the people he plays against to camp him to win. Look at Wizzy with top platform camping, or Amsa with egg stalling. Just makes the sets boring to me :/ iBDW vs Hbox was the hypest set he had all year tbh.
@@carlzabel8 Puff players just float around till the other player flubs. I think Hbox is lame to watch because he plays with so much ego, you see it in his wins and his losses. He's either butthurt, or popping off to a completely unnecessary level. I dont think he plays to have fun, he plays to win.
Hbox doesn't really care who he hits, I was standing behind him watching him play in pools at Genesis, and he looked at me real quick then looked back at the game and scooted his chair back quickly with all his weight almost knocking me down
I’m neutral in this so. Now if you notice hbox isn’t stupid he doesn’t ledge camp every game if he did it would have got banned long ago. He only does it in VERY important sets and games. I’m not saying make a limit that would ban ledge camping outright but maybe limit the number of ledge grabs, puff can still camp but it’s less degenerate. Some characters have legitimately no way 2 deal with the ledge camping.
@@pinkyellow1able people have been trying to get a ledge grab limit for years dude. One other big event that sparked debate was in 2017 when m2k ledge stalled against westballz. But of course whenever it happens people always say "oh this only affects hbox and it's only been a recent problem"
W.A.C. Wow, I can't imagine being as much of a loser as you. You enjoy Puff camping ledge for 8 minutes more than a character that takes an absurd amount of inputs per minute that results in fast paced matches.
@@isabelleismysoulmate7847 You're missing the subtext in his comment. When he says fox, he really means the jews who run the media. He just wants to live in a world where us whites don't have to deal with the colored folk and jews anymore.
To anyone saying top platform camping with falcon vs puff isn't a grimy tactic or avoiding the fact that it slows down the matchup considerably, I'd like to see you try to challenge Wizzy on top platform with a character that takes 3 jumps to get there and few strong upwards options. I don't care whether either is the exact same as the other, they're both grimy and boring and we should condemn both if we're trying to watch faster, more exciting melee. Basically I don't care if either player does either for a short bit (especially not ledge stalling on stadium transformations), but get back to the game so it doesn't take 30 minutes.
Theres a difference between invincibility and no options with high chance of gimps and top platform. But yeah, people shouldnt be heappy about wizzy camping either
@@RGE_Music if your hated on the internet death threats just come with the package its pretty normal now still offensive but normal sad world in general 🤔
You honestly sound like Fauxhebro when he faced Chango lmao. Just stops playing even though he was able to take Chango to Game 5 and just lets the game stay at a standstill because he’s playing a pretty terrible mu for ICs, especially since their only tool that is easy to use and broken was banned that tournament, and he just smiles as people boo at Chango because it’s easy to hate on Puff as a character in Melee before walking off like the smug punk he is.
@@ATerriblePlayer Melee caught up to itself, if you can win using some of the games mechanics, then why not? and where is the limit to ban things? Why not just ban Fox all together? why not ban ledge trumping/ledgegrabbing to prevent ledgegrabs for people that are coming back? Bidouing people are shortning the game and making it less interactive with less gameplay instead of the risky but fun edgeguard. People will still find rules to win if at all possible. People who designed the rulesets for melee are dumbasses, you can have a glitch in the game that freezes the opponent unntil they get regrabbed, but let wobbling be a thing? wtf? what is even the difference gameplay wise between the two in singles? Its time you guys had a hard look at melee for what it is and what you want it too be without exceptions, no chatting around it or bullshitting what should be and what shouldnt. Grow the hell up.
wiz should have just unplugged his controller and walked off make a statement and force tourneys to ban planking. Everyone should until its banned. They need to figure out a rule to stop people from camping the nfl and nba make it so defensive game is worse for viewership well smash needs to do that as well. I will say that camping top plate needs to stop as well
@@JV-zl1ig I never suggested that, though I wonder why the backlash was so much less when Mew2King grabbed ledge 39 times in a row before getting on stage with Sheik.
How does he DARE to cheese in a tournament like this? It's almost like you are meant to use the cheesiest tactics and try your hardest to win! But i thought it was all about fun and fair games
Add a god damn ledge grab limit. For those saying camping on top platform is just as bad you guys are demented. One gives you invincibility and the other doesn't.
@@robenriven It may be extremely hard, but not impossible for puff in that situation. I also believe getting punished for approaching top platform isn't the same thing as getting gimped at 0% at the edge for the stock. Check out Armada's new video on the topic, he makes a lot of sense out of it.
@@generationloss1 Yes, We Know. Top Platform Camping Is Way, WAYYY Worse Than Ledge Stalling. That Can't Be Said For Jigglypuff Though. She Has Floaty And Slow Jumps, So She Can't Approach The Top Platform, Doesn't Matter If Its Vertically Or Horizontally. - Falcon Can't Counter Ledge Camping - Puff Can't Counter Top Platform Camping.
@@SnoopyDrew Lol how is it hard? If you don't enjoy watching puff, then you can always choose not to. No one is forcing you to watch a game or a set that you find boring to watch. That's like me saying that I hate watching basketball in a basketball game video.
@@plasticbudgie thank you for being respectful And I respect your opinion too my guy But just please don't hate the guy for who he is.. Hate his character and his play style all you want but please don't hate the guy himself.. He is a human too :')
big scary he didnt even ledge camped this set, only did it once in dreamland and he did it to simply tell Wizzrobe that if he wants to camp top platform he can camp too.
Aye, before you comment something dumb asf, PLEASE note that ledge camping and Top Platform camping are COMPLETELY different. Don’t try to be some white knight bullshit.
![OpTic Arena SSBM - [L] Wizzrobe Vs. Liquid ` Hungrybox - Smash Melee Grand Finals](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M7YS0ZuVE0I/mqdefault.jpg)
![OpTic Arena SSBM - [L] Wizzrobe Vs. Liquid ` Hungrybox - Smash Melee Grand Finals](/img/tr.png)
![[HIGHLIGHT] หมีLIVEปะ? | EP.171 เห็นแต่ในจอ วันนี้มาต้องขอคารวะ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gPWLxa0e_Z8/mqdefault.jpg)
I think hbox needs a blast zone when he wins
Lol this comment
146% he needs it!
Match starts at 12:31
You’re a saint.
We made the same comment
Thanks
lol no it doesn't. I got baited
To the two commentators...he didn't trip over one of the viewers. He stood up so fast that the chair went flying back and hit somebody.
Wow, dude. Hurting himself is bad enough. Hurting other people? Jesus Christ man.
@@ROYBGP oh please don't act like it was purposeful, you can see how he felt bad for doing so.
Roy bgp oh please, as if you’ve never accidentally hurt someone
actually, if you look when he wins. The chair is still there, he throws it over with his hand and it hits someone. wizzys head blocks it rip wizzy
@@ROYBGP their fault for being in the hbox splash zone
Hungrybox continues to hurt himself in his more aggressive popoffs.
Soon on Kotaku we're gonna see a news story: "Top esports competitor tragically breaks both arms in celebration accident"
Wait what? I don't remember hearing that he hurt himself here
Edit: apart from the Commentators of course
But appearantly he didn't hurt himself thankfully
>hbox grabs ledge
"Wow, hbox's defensive play is incredible right now"
When you pop off too hard and break your wrist
*jack
Recommended video: "why competitive SSBM needs a ledge grab limit." Good job Hax.
Just thought it would be nifty to count ledge grabs for Hbox (I don’t hate him just counted for fun)
Game 1: 13 (wizzy won)
Game 2: 20 (hbox won)
Game 3: 93 (hbox won)
Game 4: 20 (wizzy won)
Game 5: 8 (hbox won)
Make of that what you will
93 LOL
93? Daayyyumm
From the way people are talking about it, you'd think those numbers would be 70, 90, 110, 200, 250
count top platform camps
Honestly aside from game 3 this is a perfectly normal ledge grab amount. People are heavy overreacting, especially considering the amount of ledge grabs wizzy does with has dashes sometimes. That being said I don't think either player is really going too far. Not to mention that both characters have options to beat each other's camping
I enjoyed the game, but it would be better if it wasn't on the ledge so much.
I'm going to be straight up as someone who doesn't take melee religiously. This set was very unentertaining, I'm not trying to discredit Hbox but that 3rd game was boring to watch. He just kept regrabing the ledge knowing full well that a Falcon is unable to do anything in that scenario, I mean I guess you do whatever you need to get the win but as a viewer this set was unentertaining and I feel personally smash should not be a camp to win game. I feel like a ledge grab limit is a healthy idea for the game. (All my opinion so don't get triggered).
Morph Ball the issue is that if Wizzy gets hit while contesting Hbox camping, he dies. Hbox just takes damage if he contests Wizzy on top platform poorly
@@zunkgrass2341 falcon can contest with Aerials offstage (stomp onstage too) and also can use tilts to counter the camping safely from on stage. Puff ledge camping doesnt invalidate any viable characters, it does invalidate low tiers but imo low tiers don't matter enough for that to be ban worthy
@Morph Ball You can't seriously think that top plat and ledge are the same thing, stop trolling
@@carlzabel8 It's very risky for Falcon to try to contest Puff at the ledge and at best he gets some percent advantage, he'd basically have to win 15 times to get a chance of taking a stock, while the slightest mistake will most surely cost him a stock
@@carlzabel8 Nevermind I just read you wrote he can use tilts, you're obviously not good at the game
Game starts at 12:30
thxs brother
Dam falcon up air is the only move in the game that can combo puff
I mean, what cant up air combo? Poor falcon has no other tool as a low tier but at least up air can carry him to his peak
HalloFrame Lmao falcon is not a fucking low tier
@@chadhawley7050 he is literally bottom 5 what crack are you smoking
@@smithclaxton3357 LMAO WHAT
21:55
When people hate on Smash 4's ledge mechanics, but seem to fail to realize that the ledge mechanics were the way they are because of strategies like planking.
Well in smash 4, some characters could still somewhat do it like bayo, puff, and wii fit. Now in ult, you have a limit on ledge grabs before touching the ground.
@@runterranger7398 I can agree on that, but you can see that nintendo put the effort to eliminate tactics like this.
@@BlackDeathBlade Definitely, im grateful for how they changed the airdodges in smash 4 to ultimate, made edgeguarding so much better, and now pushing people to the corner has so much more meaning.
Reese Labbe Unless you’re Little Mac. Then you know the recovery is useless when you’re sent far offstage lol.
No they're the way they are because they didn't like ledge hog. I suppose it was a bigger problem in brawl but puff is the only character that has it's risk reward skewed heavily in their favor in melee.
Omg to pop off after that... what world do you live in man
he had lost to wizzy all 3 times in 2019 lol he beat his toughest opponent and maintained his number one spot.
I feel like you people don't go outside at all let alone do anything competitive
On the contrary, I feel like you people don't know what it is to compete with someone like that
@@TheLuxma in competition do you do where you don't show emotion after a massive win. idk turn on a tv people cry and do alot worse than jump out of a chair. I guess things are different in the chess community you seem to be in
I play football. Of course you can pop off after a game where you've lost time, made a lot of faults and in general tried not to play the game. In fact some people do. No one likes those people. It's a matter of respect for the game over the player.
@@TheLuxma you can show respect and show human emotion and happiness. You can be be excited and respectful at the same time. Hbox literally shook his hand after he got back on the stage...hbox also raves about how much he respects and likes wizzy as a player. I literally don't know or understand where you are coming from in life or in melee
I actually don't usually hate on hbox but goddamn this was grimey
Don't go putting all the blame on Hbox. This camping resulted from the game plans of both players, both deserve 50% of the L
Alright. Explain what Hbox should’ve done in order to win and not be grimey.
@@alex30939 actually the past year or more he's been doing it completely fine without grime. He doesn't need to camp on the ledge to get cheap potshots, Captain falcon has no recourse he has no projectile to force the fight
@Morph Ball its not about one character vs another character being ok to camp or not. Its about ledge camping and platform camping. Platform camping doesnt give you invincibility like the ledge does and challenging platform camping doesnt put you at risk of getting gimped at 0% like in ledge camping. Ledge camping is overall much more powerful and hard to deal with than platform camping.
@@pizzashark7067 you cant compare top platform camping to ledge camping.
12:28 Set starts.
Is Hungrybox okay? Is the guy who got hit with the chair okay?
hbox died from aids after game 3
They’re both fine
@@saadsharif1552 That popoff left me real worried.
why does the thumbnail perfectly describe this set?
To be fair I'm pretty sure hbox only ledge camped because wizzy plat camps him in every set they play, while I'm not defending camping, nor do I enjoy it I do think that if ones to hate on hbox for camping they should hate on wizy for doing the same thing
I don't give a fuck if people camp the top platform. Sure, it's boring, but I think it's a fair game plan. But camping on the ledge is taking it way too far. You don't get invincibility when you camp the platforms, you do every time you regrab the ledge. There's little to no counter play and the risk vs reward is absolutely terrible. You can die at zero if you try to challenge Puff on the ledge so it's not worth it.
I now see why keef crew made that vid
Can the melee community hurry up and enforce a ledge grab limit instead of complaining when someone inevitability abuses the ledge
"Oh no, the player used a rule that we all agreed on to win the game!"
Yeah, if we don't want to see ledgegrabs, then make a rule against it.
27:18 3...2...1... And we have liftoff
Since the VOD didn't show it, HBOX grabbed ledge 93 times during the Dreamland game. If we want to implement a ledgegrab limit it should be around or a little below this range. Maybe 70-80.
I feel like it should be way lower honestly. Maybe like 40-50. There's no way that you would get past that regularly.
EmanuelFran unless getting knocked off stage is what you’re good at, no, there’s no way to get like 50 ledge grabs.
People are taking about an 8 grab limit... Melee drama.
@@Mute14_ that's why I think it would be a good number. It's pretty much impossible to get past it in normal play and not enough to the ledge to be abused a bunch.
Andres Salvat if you have a number that high as a limit we will see some workaround like dropping lower or using two or three jumps before each ledge grap
Hboxs new way to counter wizzy ledge camp
Puff is so trash thats the only way to actually be viable
@@vprw lol wtf
@@vprw Bro He Only Excessively Ledge Camped Game 3 Wtf
@@ClimbingKeen pre hbox puff wasn't considered top tier. puff isn't bad but it's worth noting hbox literally birthed puff for the most part
Counter camping with camping
Game 3 on Dreamland was honestly a lame and boring game to watch from a spectator's point of view but I feel like wizzy and hbox did whatever it took to wintbis tourney cuz this tourney was gonna decide which of these two players would be the #1 player in the 2019 summer ranking.
Friendly reminder that Brawl had a ledgegrab limit. Usually it was around 30 to 50, with Meta Knight's being at least 10 less. I know people like to conveniently forget about that game because it's yicky or whatever, but at least take this into consideration.
In Brawl, Meta Knight could go under the stage. He had quick access to both ledges, and was a much, much better character than Melee Puff. It's not so clear that the analogy is useful.
I don't know much about melee, so pardon me if this seems uninformed, but why are people complaining about ledge grabbing? Doesn't it work somewhat similarly to 4's ledge grabbing but with regrabs?
You get invincibility every time you grab the ledge
Falcon can do almost nothing to puff when she ledge camps like that. Falcon has to risk dying from gimps just to get maybe 1 or 2 up airs. If puff gets a stock lead she can just ledge grab and it's pretty much unwinnable. And it's not just falcon. This can happen to a lot of characters.
@@Ballaralla87 oh damn wtf were they thinking with that
@@aguy9085 You also can't ledge trump
certified cool guy they weren’t thinking anything with that, it’s a 2001 game they would’ve never thought it would be that good, this game wasn’t even meant to be played 1v1 no items and they never thought of how certain mechanics could be broken in competitive play, they had to witness how good it was in Brawl and Melee to think of a way to nerf it in Smash 4
Melee is a contact sport!
If you know melee you know this was a really sick grand final and wizzy was able to counter the camping pretty well by game 4. GGs all around. LONG LIVE MELEE
Not as sick as ultimate grands
What kind of GF have you been watching your whole life?
37:14 poor shy guy😢
12:31 to start. Thx Wizzy
100 grab ledge grab limit!?
Can someone explain why there is 12 minutes of footage before the set starts? Was that really necessary?
Wow. I sure never heard of that before
What a great thumbnail
Love that thumbnail
I watched this to see the controversy about the ledge grab limit, but honestly Hbox just played well. This is a good set.
Did you watch the Dreamland game? My guy. That was prime *GRIME*
Roy bgp Play melee, against someone good with falcon and try to get to the top plataform with a character like puff that needs three jumps. You would get punished. He was doing what he need it,
@@robenriven puff has one of the best upairs in the game moron
bruce While Puff’s Up Air is probably the best overall in her Melee interation (I mean her Up Air when comparing it to the other Puffs in the Smash series), the certain combos into Rest and wide-ish range don’t mean jack when she’s so slow to reach top platforms and her Up Air in painfully short in terms of vertical range, making it an easily punishable via Falcon’s Stomp. And I don’t think Puff’s Up-Air in Melee is the best. If it kept its animation but had Incineroar’s Up Air range, then I would consider it the best, but it isn’t.
So Hbox having to deal with Wizzy’s own grimy camping that is pretty much unwinnable in Puff’s situation, Hbox ledge camping Wizzy after taking the lead was more than justified.
In the end, both players did what they had to do to win, and I accept that. I didn’t hate what they did despite the game slowing down since I enjoy the slow methodical spacing and poking game as well as burst speedy and flashy gameplay. Both players played well, and it was a great set all around.
Did he ever rest?
edit: 26:06
The vid isn't that long
Used to love this game lol
That thumbnail
Ledge camping should not be rewarded with a #1 ranking
Did you watch the games?
When was the ledge camping?
Wizzy lost mulitple stocks in the 3rd game on dreamland just because of ledge camping
23:13 if you don’t call this ledge camping idk what is...
Nadim Hussainali wizz was camping a lot too,
Lol whose here after hungrybox video on pop offs
Here mate
Just came to raise the like ratio lol
Came here to raise the like ratio cause why not
I wanna comment on how fucking nice wizzy looks in the Envy jersey
I was expecting worse tbh.
My opinion is that ledge stalling isn't such a big deal, currently, but also it not being a big deal means little will change with a ledge grab limit so I don't see a problem with implementing one.
Smh what a sad set
@Hunter Weems maybe he means the really campy playstyle on both sides
@Hunter Weems how do those Hballs taste?
Hunter Weems like them Hballs?
@@lukekapala1020 cope, unranked player.
play to win
@@pabloaguilar7576 wow
Someone with a mind?
aaaand as soon as I start to like hbox a little he does this shit
Both played amazing.
For everyone complaining about ledge stalling, take a moment and count the number of times Wizz camps the top platform.
You cant compare ledger stalling to platform stalling. It's really stupid
@@kimpachis8841 Both of them are defensive tactics that put you on advantage. Whether one is more effective than the other is irrelevant, if you want to ban scummy tactics then ban them all.
@@Hectorlo Thats not how nuance works.
Like, by your logic, we should ban everything except for button mashing since any type of strategy that puts you at an advantage could be considered scummy. Then we're literally on the playground arguing about monopoly again.
There is obviously a line people feel is being crossed by players who ledgecamp, just like there was a line being crossed when wobbling started to take off.
Believe it or not even the granddaddy of competitive gaming, chess, had rulesets added for the sake of increasing how fun it would be, and to reward certain playstyles. The threefold repetition draw was added specifically to stop situations like ledge stalls, and to make sure the game would continue to progress.
Hectorlo Ledge gives you invincibility. I don't think Ledge grabbing should be limited or some shit, but Hbox should definitely be ashamed of himself. It's not fun to watch. And this is a spectator sport. If tournament's are this gay, less people are gonna watch, then less tournaments. It's why Melee isn't at EVO anymore.
@@Hectorlo ledge grabbing gives your invincibility frames. Ledge grabbing is also good for puff especially. If a ledge camping puff sticks to that strategy it's a 97% win for puff
"Don't fix what's not broken"... But it is broken lol.
“Big pop off”
.....more like big eye roll from the constant planking.
He grabbed the ledge 5 times on game 5 lol
That was literally just game 3
The others barley touched 10
It’s honestly hilarious that people only really complaining cuz hbox won. The biggest argument here a that platform camping doesn’t grant invincibility, but it’s funny cuz we all know if hbox approaches wizzy on that ledge he’s dead in 5 hits. But that’s what the majority wants so it’s the valid argument that gets the most thumbs up both played lame as hell in game 3 fuck y’all talking bout?
..And if Puff hits Falcon with one or two hits, he's dead as well. Back air spam will do it or a rest will. Platform camping is lame as fuck, and Falcon doesn't have any options for it.
why is hbox barefoot
Good set, both played very well.
11:38 when the posture is sus
why the hell has this vid so many dislikes. i don't understand
Because Hungrybox Lost, And Since He Ledge Camped 93 Times Game 3, And Since Hungrybox Is So Hated By The Community Because He Plays Defensively, A Lot Of People Disliked The Vod
@@hhhhhh-vi6sq let him be. He also makes the Game great
@@cross25011990 I Know, I Don't Hate Hungrybox
@@hhhhhh-vi6sq you mean won?
Dislikes for Polarity being SWJs
puff ledge stall tactic from hbox only worked well on DL, the last 2 fountain and yoshis sets the strat clearly dropped off.
Watching Hbox play is like watching paint dry
Hagan Oliveras tbh is better then seeing fox all the time
I don't care about all the smash drama surrounding hbox since I just like watching people play but I don't like watching hbox sets because he forces the people he plays against to camp him to win. Look at Wizzy with top platform camping, or Amsa with egg stalling. Just makes the sets boring to me :/ iBDW vs Hbox was the hypest set he had all year tbh.
To be fair wizzy plays this matchup hella campy too
@Jimmy Carson true of both players, honestly this matchup played optimally is just incredibly campy, way more so than puff dittos imo
@@carlzabel8 Puff players just float around till the other player flubs. I think Hbox is lame to watch because he plays with so much ego, you see it in his wins and his losses. He's either butthurt, or popping off to a completely unnecessary level. I dont think he plays to have fun, he plays to win.
Wizzrobe is such a weirdo, what was that every time he drank from the bottle? Must be some OCD thing
What the fuck is wizzy doing with the water bottle, please someone explain, it's haunting me in my dreams
Hbox doesn't really care who he hits, I was standing behind him watching him play in pools at Genesis, and he looked at me real quick then looked back at the game and scooted his chair back quickly with all his weight almost knocking me down
Wtf?
Stop making shit man
Never seen anyone complain about ledge camping so much til now
It's actually been a problem for years. I don't know how there isn't a rule against it yet.
@@emanuelfran5295 not really it's a big deal now because it's hbox beating wizzy a people like alot right now it's really retarded
I’m neutral in this so. Now if you notice hbox isn’t stupid he doesn’t ledge camp every game if he did it would have got banned long ago. He only does it in VERY important sets and games. I’m not saying make a limit that would ban ledge camping outright but maybe limit the number of ledge grabs, puff can still camp but it’s less degenerate. Some characters have legitimately no way 2 deal with the ledge camping.
@@pinkyellow1able people have been trying to get a ledge grab limit for years dude. One other big event that sparked debate was in 2017 when m2k ledge stalled against westballz. But of course whenever it happens people always say "oh this only affects hbox and it's only been a recent problem"
The fuck is Wizzy doing to those water bottles? lol
Armada is the new Ken
Not very spectacular too watch, but still enjoyable. Good job on both players part.
Great stuff to Hungrybox. I don’t like seeing stalling but he had a great tournament
bruh game 3 was so sad, where's the GODDAMN LEDGE GRAB LIMIT
Probably where the era of Mang0 dominance is.
Shut up whiny manchild.
Great match. This is a new rivalry
Great set. I love that Melee isn't dominated by Fox.
I love that it's dominated by ledge camping puff
@@chairwood Yes, that's true actually. If I ever take Melee seriously as a game, it will be because Fox no longer dominates the meta.
W.A.C. where’ve you been
W.A.C.
Wow, I can't imagine being as much of a loser as you.
You enjoy Puff camping ledge for 8 minutes more than a character that takes an absurd amount of inputs per minute that results in fast paced matches.
@@isabelleismysoulmate7847 You're missing the subtext in his comment. When he says fox, he really means the jews who run the media. He just wants to live in a world where us whites don't have to deal with the colored folk and jews anymore.
We need a ledge grab limit.
God I wish wizzy won but an entertaining set none the less
Hbox deserves to win don’t @ me
@Hunter Weems > wizzy camps " OMG SO KEWL AAAAA OMG POGGG" > hbox adjust and camps back "OMG MELEE RUINEDDDDDDD MY PARENTS DON'T LOVE ME AHHH"
To anyone saying top platform camping with falcon vs puff isn't a grimy tactic or avoiding the fact that it slows down the matchup considerably, I'd like to see you try to challenge Wizzy on top platform with a character that takes 3 jumps to get there and few strong upwards options. I don't care whether either is the exact same as the other, they're both grimy and boring and we should condemn both if we're trying to watch faster, more exciting melee.
Basically I don't care if either player does either for a short bit (especially not ledge stalling on stadium transformations), but get back to the game so it doesn't take 30 minutes.
Theres a difference between invincibility and no options with high chance of gimps and top platform. But yeah, people shouldnt be heappy about wizzy camping either
@@Dr6or7KraftSingles there's not much of a different when it's camping the top platform vs a slow character
The hbox hate is real... honestly really sad
You degenerate, why should people endorse camping
@@Tempmoviemker should we endorse hatred? He is just a man and its no way to mean. And no I am no degenerate
@@RGE_Music if you camp, be prepared to get hated on.
@@LosEspookys I agree that camping will get hot emotions. But death threats and saying he is ruining melee is beyond extreme.
@@RGE_Music if your hated on the internet death threats just come with the package its pretty normal now still offensive but normal sad world in general 🤔
if i was wizzy i wuld have just SD'd 4 times and walked off so everyone would get pissed at Hb0x
Did you throw the crab
@@Mewstor151 i wouldn't disrespect the crab like that
You honestly sound like Fauxhebro when he faced Chango lmao. Just stops playing even though he was able to take Chango to Game 5 and just lets the game stay at a standstill because he’s playing a pretty terrible mu for ICs, especially since their only tool that is easy to use and broken was banned that tournament, and he just smiles as people boo at Chango because it’s easy to hate on Puff as a character in Melee before walking off like the smug punk he is.
@@LestaBan Go back to playing Overwatch, lol.
Why people hate Puff/HBox
Congrats on playing a game that has non-intended features, like infinite pummels, freeze, hitboxes not matching with animations and so forth.
23:13
@@ATerriblePlayer Melee caught up to itself, if you can win using some of the games mechanics, then why not?
and where is the limit to ban things? Why not just ban Fox all together? why not ban ledge trumping/ledgegrabbing to prevent ledgegrabs for people that are coming back? Bidouing people are shortning the game and making it less interactive with less gameplay instead of the risky but fun edgeguard. People will still find rules to win if at all possible.
People who designed the rulesets for melee are dumbasses, you can have a glitch in the game that freezes the opponent unntil they get regrabbed, but let wobbling be a thing? wtf? what is even the difference gameplay wise between the two in singles?
Its time you guys had a hard look at melee for what it is and what you want it too be without exceptions, no chatting around it or bullshitting what should be and what shouldnt. Grow the hell up.
@@Slival_ Have you ever had a life?
@@DurzoGuile please tell me more about the fighting games you play that animation bound hitboxes
wiz should have just unplugged his controller and walked off make a statement and force tourneys to ban planking. Everyone should until its banned. They need to figure out a rule to stop people from camping the nfl and nba make it so defensive game is worse for viewership well smash needs to do that as well. I will say that camping top plate needs to stop as well
Or you could be a thick moron and ignore Wizzy platform camping agaist puff, seems like alot of people are.
I’m kinda neutral so, I mean ledge camping gives invincibility and ledge camping does it
@@bio0link
Platform camping doesn't grant invincibility.
why is hbox like this smh
Sigh. Melee is so sick, Axe and wizzy have done so much lately to prove that and then we get this. This ain’t it chief.
Bunch of babies on youtube. Half dislikes because you don't like the results? At least support the uploader
Exactly, they're dumb enough to think that disliking the video will hurt hbox
How can somebody Like this video?
I have seen Mew2King grab ledge more times than Hungrybox did in this game. You're just angry because it's Hbox.
@@PalPlays So you are just guessing I DO like watching when other players ledge grab? If you are wondering, no I dont, it's pretty lame
@@JV-zl1ig I never suggested that, though I wonder why the backlash was so much less when Mew2King grabbed ledge 39 times in a row before getting on stage with Sheik.
PalPlays m2k is a scumbag but everyone gives him a pass for some reason
Bien jugado hbox
Hate it when puff mains can afford to hurt themselves Kappa
Add a ledge grab limit already. Why are to's so reluctant to ban shit like this.
How does he DARE to cheese in a tournament like this? It's almost like you are meant to use the cheesiest tactics and try your hardest to win! But i thought it was all about fun and fair games
Shut up lol nobody asked for your opinion
@@fiwip6984 well tell that the toxic part of the melee boys, i just wanna watch a game being played to its fullest
So you prefer watching hbox sets over mang0 sets? lol
@@fiwip6984 No i prefer watching who's the best be it abusing tactics or sick mechanics except for wobbling
@@WallCarBoatHead I know buddy
camp camp camp
i was hoping a crab would jump out again at hungrybox
Ur picture is so great
lmao hungryboxes greatest achievement, hitting the c stick in the air in one direction multiple times with a character that can virtually fly
Morph Ball hi hbox
Thats What Everyone Says Until They Try Out Melee Puff Competetively, Then They're Like "bUT huNgRYboX hAS mOre expiRIence At pUfF tHan mE"
I've seen far more ledge grabbing than this particular set. Anyways good stuff to both.
Add a god damn ledge grab limit. For those saying camping on top platform is just as bad you guys are demented. One gives you invincibility and the other doesn't.
Mike Vercimak With puff, is impossible to get to top plataform without being punished. Try doing it yourself and see
@@robenriven It may be extremely hard, but not impossible for puff in that situation. I also believe getting punished for approaching top platform isn't the same thing as getting gimped at 0% at the edge for the stock. Check out Armada's new video on the topic, he makes a lot of sense out of it.
@@nnnnoob Well, Thats The Fault Of The People Who Make The Melee Rulesets
@@generationloss1 Yes, We Know. Top Platform Camping Is Way, WAYYY Worse Than Ledge Stalling. That Can't Be Said For Jigglypuff Though.
She Has Floaty And Slow Jumps, So She Can't Approach The Top Platform, Doesn't Matter If Its Vertically Or Horizontally.
- Falcon Can't Counter Ledge Camping
- Puff Can't Counter Top Platform Camping.
Welp here it is again, hungrybox single handedly making melee not fun to watch. When will this dude retire?
He Only Camped Game 3 And Everyone's Like "Oh mY gOD hE's sO lAAAmeee' Well Then Try Jigglypuff Yourself And Try To Be Offensive
@@hhhhhh-vi6sq yeah.....
Then watch some other sets if you don't like watching puff. It's not that hard.
@@TC-ve9rn It's kind of difficult when they dude is in pretty much every top 4 sets.
@@SnoopyDrew Lol how is it hard? If you don't enjoy watching puff, then you can always choose not to. No one is forcing you to watch a game or a set that you find boring to watch. That's like me saying that I hate watching basketball in a basketball game video.
Reading about all the HBox haters in the comments
Puff kills melee for me.
@@user-ti6us2br4x Plup is so much better and you know it.!!
@@plasticbudgie nah
He is super good and I respect that
But Hbox is better so far
@@user-ti6us2br4x Fair Point your own opinion your own taste, just for me i find Hbox to be boring always will.
But respect sir for your opinion.
@@plasticbudgie thank you for being respectful
And I respect your opinion too my guy
But just please don't hate the guy for who he is.. Hate his character and his play style all you want but please don't hate the guy himself.. He is a human too :')
@@user-ti6us2br4x Yeah sadly at that time i guess he just aggrivated me, of course its puff, lost in translation sir.
Appologies to you and him.
When ledge grab limit becomes a rule.
HBox wont ever win a tourney ever...
Calling it now.
Ledge grab limit is only a thing if the game ends because of the timer. None of the games in this set timed out, so he would have won regardless.
hbox is really really good at melee, he only ledge camps when he thinks it's necessary.
Cata Tonic Hbox doesn’t need to ledge camp to win my guy. This is coming from a leffen fan as well.
big scary he didnt even ledge camped this set, only did it once in dreamland and he did it to simply tell Wizzrobe that if he wants to camp top platform he can camp too.
Carlos Guzman top platform cant be compared to ledge my mans
Aye, before you comment something dumb asf, PLEASE note that ledge camping and Top Platform camping are COMPLETELY different. Don’t try to be some white knight bullshit.
Congrats hbox
I think that ledge camping is just something that players should adapt to and learn how to counterplea
Collin Howard you realize that for over half the cast of characters it’s impossible to challenge ledge camping successfully
Yeah many characters cant do much when jiggs camps. We see top players studying the camping matchup and they can rarly do much
@@kimpachis8841 Yeah But Wizzy Was Doing The Same, Jigglypuff Can't Counter Top Platform Camping
This is way melee isn't at evo main lineup anymore
Oh Yeah, And Thats Why Evo Was All The Other Years?
LoL
You are dumb
We've all seen Mew2King grab ledge more often than Hbox did. Calm down everyone; it wasn't that bad.
Sad to watch.