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Hey Brodie, What if walking away from Tampa Bay is actually dumber than it looks? MLB might be playing with fire, and not just for Stu Sternberg. Think broader: Florida's got massive MLB infrastructure. We're talking about: Spring training facilities across the state Billions in public funds supporting those venues Relationships with state politicians that took years to build MLB just strong-armed Florida after two natural disasters and now wants to bail on a $600M public money deal? That's not just burning one bridge - that's torching the entire MLB-Florida relationship. Other team owners with spring training investments in Florida have WAY more to lose than just this one stadium. Manfred personally showed up to make this happen. You don't do that unless the stakes are massive. This feels like Sternberg vs. everybody - but "everybody" includes some seriously powerful economic players who don't want their Florida investments torpedoed. Two expansion teams are coming, meaning 3 new stadiums need funding. And here's the kicker - Tampa Bay's got a first-generation fanbase just coming of age. MLB would essentially have to build THREE fanbases from scratch and potentially cannibalize existing team territories. Walking away looks less like strategy and more like corporate suicide. MLB's got WAY more to lose by ditching this than staying put.
Say hello to the Nashville Rays... :) Just kidding. I actually love the Rays because they can win on a tight budget and do things right. I really think they should move to Orlando though. It is a better location for them.
It's so sad to see another team go in the same situation my exes put me through and whilst I would love to reassure Rays fans that everything will be ok I sadly know it won't
I live here in Tampa. If they build the new stadium in Ybor (downtown Tampa) it will solve most of the issues. I would definitely purchase season tickets.
It won't. St Pete is a much better location than Tampa. A million people live within a 30 minute drive. There are MORE people within 45 minutes of St Pete than their are for downtown Tampa.
@@MrMac1138 a million people who've had 27 years, 17 years as a competitive team, to grow and support the team. They haven't. They would do far better attendance on the east side of the bay. I know numerous people who refuse to go to any night games, solely because the traffic is that bad.
@@scotttild St. Pete comes with $600m of public money and the rights to use of 62 acres in downtown St. Pete, Tampa does not. Tampa (area) comes with a better TV market than Orlando. Those two statements explain the problem with why they are fixated on St. Pete. The 62 acres thing is the most absurd part of some agreement made nearly 30 years ago. It's nearly impossible for the Rays to walk away from $600m of "free" money and 62 acres of downtown real estate. Everybody knows Tampa is the best choice, followed by St. Pete (only for TV market purposes, albiet terrible location), and then if necessary, Orlando.
@@naturallawman2965 They would not. The issue nowadays is the facility, not the location. In the past it was because people in Tampa were too snooty to drive over the bridge. That has changed with improvements to crossing and just St Pete being so much nicer than Tampa right now. If they refuse to go because of traffic, that is an issue with the people that chose to live on that side of the bay. BTW, the traffic is getting progressively worse on 275 through Tampa, so they will still use the excuse. The issue is the Trop feels like Costco. Tampa also does not have the money to do it.
St. Pete is saying “We can have the new stadium built before repairing the old one if you just move forward with construction as agreed upon, otherwise, we will extend the lease and you can’t move anywhere or have a new stadium, take your pick Stu!”
This is pretty much it. If the Rays sign the agreement on the new deal, St Pete will likely work hard to expedite repairs and get Tropicana Field ready for 2026. But there is nothing in the agreement that says they have a timeline. St Pete can go through a longer bidding process to give the city the best value, but that could take several months. How things are usually done, they likely would give bidders time to sent a proposal and costs then they would have time to evaluate. This usually would take 180 days AT LEAST between solicitation of bids, a timeline to submit, and then at least 60 days for St Pete to review the bids. Under normal process, it is likely the city may not get anything started until the Fall of this year. Can they expedite it? Yes, but that costs money. They also are expecting FEMA money as well as insurance money. FEMA money will take some time as well. The Rays are just warning them that it is possible the lease will need to be extended. As long as St Pete is truly working towards repairing, it will be hard for the Rays to claim they are intentionally stalling. St Pete just needs to be clear in all communications that it is working to fix the Trop but it needs to be sure it has the funding and time to review bids to protect taxpayers. That can take time. The Rays also cannot talk to anyone else outside of St Pete about a stadium for the future while the lease is active. That comes with penalties - the Rays would have to pay the remaining bonds on the stadium, including any bonds issues for repairs. That could be $300-400M. They also would lose the 50% real estate development rights. The Rays will likely try to create a condition for the new stadium that requires Tropicana Field to be done in 2026.
Pretty much. The city is waiting to even see if the Rays are going to uphold the New Stadium agreement and bring forth their funding and hopefully break ground by the end of March. At that point if the Rays aren't moving on the new ballpark...I think the city has done the math... They are going to buyout the final years of the Trop lease and say good luck.
@@herotomillions4095 They cannot until the lease expires or they will owe St Pete $300-400 million. If they even talk to another city, they are in breach of contract. St Pete can kick them out and make them pay all outstanding bonds. As of now, they cannot talk to another city without St Pete approval until their season ends in 2028.
Even St. Pete knows a new stadium can't be built in a year. But the Trop can be fixed. This is intentional because the city knows the Rays need money from their own home.
@ San Fran and Oakland share a TV market so the A's leaving Oakland didn't leave MLB out of the SF TV market. If the Rays left Tampa/St. Pete then yeah, that market (which is higher/better than Orlando) would be left empty. To my understanding, the Tampa TV market is what Manfred cherishes. Leaving Oakland was unfortunately not as big of a deal to MLB as would leaving Tampa/St. Pete.
Small nitpick, but I'm tired of media outlets using the photos of the Trop from directly after the storm with the roof in tatters. The city spent ~$6 million to clean it up/waterpoof as possible, and it looks much less like a war zone today.
The longer the City drags this out, the less likely the Rays can solidify the financial backing for the redevelopment of the Stadium District. The City of St. Pete could totally ruin their downtown plans with this "No Rush" strategy. Also, the City is risking further damage to the Trop by not fixing the roof. It rains often in the Tampa Bay region. That could add to the potential repair cost.
The city has already allocated funds and opened the bidding process. However, the bidding process can take time because bids need to be written up and evaluated - and sometimes revised.
I'm sure that Salt Lake City, Louisville, Memphis, Montreal or even Orlando and/or Oakland would gladly welcome the Rays to play there for as long as they like, especially since Tampa/St. Pete don't seem too enthusiastic about giving them a new stadium. Just sayin.'
I have no inside information. However, this is my hunch as to what will transpire. It seems as if St. Pete, Pinellas County, and the Rays are done with each other and the inevitable separation will happen. Rays will make an agreement for a new stadium with Orlando to be built by International Drive. The team will play at Disney Wide World of sports stadium starting in 2026 until the new Orlando stadium is built.
The Rays will then have to pay St Pete $300-400M if they negotiate this even one minute before their lease expires at the end of the 2028 season. They cannot speak to anyone other that St Pete unless St Pete gives them permission until the lease expires. They can negotiate short term stays while the lease is suspended, but that is limited only to that time. This also could extend to 2029. But Orlando can make NO plans with the Rays until the lease expires or the Rays will have to pay all outstanding bonds on Tropicana Field. If St Pete bonds out repairs, the Rays would have to pay that too. If the Rays sign the new stadium agreement, things likely will be much easier. Rumor here is Sternberg is soliciting offers to sell the Rays. But the lease is very ironclad.
This thumbnail got me thinking that if there's some sort of strong UV blocking glass that could be the roof of the stadium, that'd be pretty sweet. Something that would let the sun in but block the UV radiation so that it didn't pass the heat through. Not sure if a material is even a thing in such a large area like would be needed, but just an idea that popped in my head.
I feel like these are two issues--old park and new park--that, in a perfect world, would be handled independently of each other, but will end up unavoidably influencing the other for better or worse, making this who situation that much more difficult to get through.
Here's what I don't understand about this whole situation: why wouldn't St. Pete/Pinellas County make sure the repairs are done ASAP? They're going to want to rent the unit out and get the revenue for it as quickly as possible to a tenant if they're not going to want to completely tear it down because it's no longer of use to them. If they're going to want to rent it, they should be repairing it. If they're going to want to tear it down, why extend the lease with the Rays?
Because they have a bidding process. You cannot just blindly repair it since you are using public money. That means they need to solicit several bids and then review them. They just finished cleanup and assessment. Bidding usually will take a least 60 days. Evaluation takes at least 30 days. So they may have something decided in May that could start over the summer.
@@MrMac1138 : that's true, but it doesn't really answer the question. The damage happened months ago. Even with the slow machinations of government and (should they choose to do so) open tender bidding processes, we're at the end of January now. We haven't heard one way or the other whether they're even thinking about a bidding process. They're in this "a little bit pregnant" stage with the stadium.
In 1975 the Yankees and Mets shared Shea Stadium as Yankee Stadium was going through renovations . Because this is sort of the same situation why can’t the Rays share a stadium with the Marlins who are at least in the same state.
@ They only have it for one year , then what ? Do they fix a roof on a dump they are going to take down or relocate to another city ..Playing a few seasons on Miami would allow them the time to build their new stadium if approved and the way the Marlins draw as bad as the Rays they could use the revenue
A better video would to be address GM positions in college sports. He should not mention a specific team other than to perhaps list a teams using the GM roles.
There are some pretty strong rumors floating around right now that Stu is in negotiations with a Tampa based group to sell the team. That group would want to move the team to Tampa but Stu also wants the developer of the Gasplant District.
Tampa will not pay a dime for the Rays. They are going to need to shell out over $500M for the Bucs soon. They also cannot move or negotiate with Tampa under the lease without St Pete's permission. St Pete would force them to give up the Gasplant development as a condition, just like last time. You leave St Pete, you lose all development rights. That's the deal.
This situation is stupid. MLB needs to come in with the $56,000,000 and get this done. That is a miniscule amount in MLB standards. They can then work on getting reimbursed from either the Rays or the city.
@ True, maybe MLB should force the Rays to come up with the money. You can’t tell me they don’t have it. I’m tired of these professionals sports teams crying poor when we all know they have the money. I stand by my statement that this situation is stupid though 🤣
The City is waiting on the Rays to agree on their new stadium deal. The city has already approved repairs to AL Lang Stadium for the Tampa Bay Rowdies which is owed by The Rays.
Al Lang stadium repairs were minimal. The Rays can only agree on the deal if they are guaranteed the revenue from 2026 season in the Trop. If the city delays the ability for the Rays to play in the Trop for nearly any portion then the Rays won't be able to afford their portion of the new stadium. It's a chicken vs egg situation.
Driving to and from the Tampa airport it was pretty jarring to see the bare ribs of the roof. Right from the interstate. From a Public relations standpoint you would think they would repair the eyesore
If I were the owner of the Rays, I either look to move, if I can’t find the right situation or enough investors, I sell the team & walk away If I’m either with the county or city governments working as mayor, commissioner, or council person, I give one last best offer, take it or leave it. If the Rays do not agree, walk away from the deal. Then pass a resolution that MLB and the Rays business is not well in the city or county Neither side trusts each other , when neither side trust each other- an agreement is out of the question
The relocation talks should have started 15 years ago. The Rays and their pathetic attendance issues have been an embarrassment for MLB almost since their inception. When is Manfred going to say "enough" and put a firm deadline down to get a temporary and long term post-Trop deal in place? If MLB could go back 30 years and award expansion to another market, you can bet they would.
Stadium should have been in Tampa instead of Saint Petersburg. Tampa area has a population of 3.2 million and that is more than Denver, Baltimore, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Cleveland or Pittsburgh.
@@Dept246 That includes St Pete. BTW, St Pete, Clearwater, the beaches, Largo, and Pinellas Park combined are SMALLER than Tampa and have more people. Nearly a million people live in Pinellas and St Pete actually has the geographic center of the Bay area AND the center of population.
Maybe. But Rays cannot deal with any other city while they are under the lease, which now will hold them in St Pete through the end of the 2028 season. If they break it, they will owe St Pete a couple hundred million in damages as they would have to pay off the bonds AND pay back all repairs St Pete will complete now. It could cost the Rays $400M to leave St Pete. They could wait for the lease to expire and then have no where to play, like Oakland. MLB is not likely to let that happen.
@@MrMac1138 MLB also doesn't want a team to leave that market either. Unlike Oakland. MLB wanted out of Oakland, and Manfred wasn't phased by it at all, because in his own words "they still have the Giants".
@@MrMac1138 They have a lease for a wrecked stadium, with the owners of the stadium saying essentially they will fix it when they get around to it. Sounds like grounds to break the lease if they don't start making a sincere effort to get it fixed.
Having the stadium in Tampa would be the best option but that would require an owner with deep pockets willing to foot the bill. The city of Tampa doesn’t have the funds to build a baseball stadium and renovate Raymond James for the Bucs
This is such a great chance for St Pete to be done with a team that is a millstone on their necks. Let them go and don’t let the door hit them on the way out
This is ridiculous. I've said this all along: fix up Tropicana Field and give it a nice renovation and then the Rays can play there for the next thirty years. If they don't like it they can either pay $1.3 billion dollars for their shiny new stadium elsewhere, or keep their mouth shut and learn to be grateful for what they have. How's that for a wild idea?
The Rays should just move to Orlando. Staying in St Pete, even with a new stadium will just mean continued low attendance and depending on revenue sharing. At least in Orlando they will sell a lot of seats to visiting fans.
Can't blame the city really. Major construction projects take time to come to fruition. There are no guarantees with construction projects. To do so is foolish and doomed to fail to meet deadlines.
I wonder if it would just be cheaper to rip it off and just update everything internally. I know there are drainage issues and such, but it if it only going to be for a year. They should really just share with the Marlins. That is really the best option rather then paying the Yankees'.
Omaha is a better option than Miami. The only thing Miami offers with the idea (a bad one at that) is that it's the closest MLB stadium. Miami is in an entirely different TV market and nearly nightmare'ish logistic issues with a "foreign" team needing to share a stadium. The Rays would have to pay a huge bill to rent the stadium on their game days and then to also receive nearly nothing in return as far as revenue. Omaha has the biggest non-occupied (Creighton Univ. baseball team isn't that big a deal) stadium which could allow the best case for revenue. The location is a wash as would be with Miami. The team leaving the Tampa area would be the biggest hit for TV market purposes. The TV media is the golden goose in negotiations in all of this.
I think your right, judging from the overhead photo they should remove anything hanging loose from the roof trusses and clean up and repair what they can inside the park and play. If they choose to remove the trusses do it in the off-season. For crying out from what I'm hearing both sides are making it more difficult then it has to be.
@ All of that stuff hanging is already gone. The Rays are essentially screwed and are panicking. MLB could force them to sell if they back out of the offer St. Pete and Pinellas offered them.
@@jamesthomas7405 I would think they could put in some drainage waterproof the electronics and be done with it. Not sure if they could do some cheap twins style inflatable roof for the short term. Just need a fix of some kind for a couple years.
Welcome to the intersection of the entertainment side of sports that we all love, and the business side of sports that we all dislike. Ultimately, there are so many fascinating “what-if” scenarios, but anything short of some sort of renegotiation of the lease or settlement seems unlikely. Neither party will agree to the literal interpretation as presented here.
I think it all comes down to money: 1) Does the city want to spend $56 million or more on stadium repairs for a stadium that will be only be used a few years and then be torn down when they already commited even more toward construction of a new stadium? 2) Does the City of St. Petersburg have the money to fix Tropicana Field right now anyway, the portion not covered by Insurance or FEMA? 3) Can the Rays afford to build the new Gas Plant Stadium even if Pinellas County and the City of St Petersburg are funding part of it with today's costs? 4) Are the Rays willing to delay their new stadium and play at Tropicana Field for longer if they or the city of St Petersburg puts up the money to fix it to justify the repair costs? 5) Would it be cheaper for the Rays to just lease another ballpark for a couple of years (e.g. Steinbrenner Field, Baycare Ballpark, Joker Marchant Stadium, JetBlue Park, Disney World Wide World of Sports Stadium, Al Lang Field, etc) if they do go ahead with the new stadium, considering the ticket revenue was less due to the smaller seating capacity than the cost of repairing Tropicana field for a few years, adding to it the demolition costs later? 7) Are any other cities going to offer the Rays a better stadium deal (e.g. Tampa, Orlando, Montreal, Puerto Rico, Omaha, Nashville, Charlotte, Austin, Oakland, etc) if they move elsewhere or are they going to run into the same finance issues there? It is a tough situation for the Rays.
The answer is 4. Fix up Tropicana Field and give it a nice renovation and then the Rays can play there for the next thirty years. If they don't like it they can fart out $1.3 billion dollars and take it somewhere else.
If Tropicana Field doesn't get timely repairs I think the Rays will claim it is unreasonable and use it as pretext to break their lease with St. Pete. St. Pete seems to want that anyway. They don't want to pay for repairs or a "public/private" collaborative ballpark build. Just my opinion.
There’s got to be a deadline to fix the roof otherwise the city can take their time. The city could wait until 2027 to fix the roof if they under no obligation to repair as quickly as possible. This should break the lease because the Rays need a stadium to sell tickets and earn money.
With interest in baseball fading, and the Rays already having very low attendance, they should just fold and build pickle ball courts on that space where the trop is after it's removed,
I’m wondering if the city and county are both trying to force the Rays into failing to comply, to make the Gas Plant plan fail, so the city and county can take all that land for themselves.
Sounds like the city of st. Pete and the county have no strong interest in repairing the Tropicana and instead they’re just hoping or pushing the idea of building a new stadium and have the Rays play in a temporary stadium.
The best solution is for the Rays to get into transition mode to another city preferably outside of FL where MLB baseball is wanted not an after thought.
It also won't be long before MLB works on the 2026 schedule. Then on top of that if they can get it open by the start of the 2027 season what happens if there is no MLB due to the new CBA being negotiated? This is a mess.
This is going straight into litigation. St Pete will end up funding the rays portion of the new stadium from the damages awarded. The funny thing (not if you pay taxes in St Pete) is the new stadium will be somewhere else when all is said and done.
Not sure how the Rays would win anything. There is no timeline in the contract for repairing and there is a natural disaster clause. St Pete does have an obligation to repair the facility, but the Rays have no right to try to force a faster rebuild that would cost St Pete more money. St Pete is allowed to go through its standard process for bidding our construction, etc. The real thing the Rays do not like it the lease is suspended while the Trop is under repair. Now the Rays have to play at Tropicana Field through 2028. If repairs take longer, it may be 2029.
@@MrMac1138 And due to all of this, the cost of a new stadium goes up every year. The Rays need the revenue from an MLB stadium to help them pay for their portion of the new stadium. This is an impossible scenario as St. Pete and Pinellas have said very clear that they will not offer one more penny above $600m for the new stadium. The Rays are unfortunately screwed without much room to hurry this up. Stu is not a billionaire so the Rays ownership group isn't made of money to just write a check for their half of the stadium. And as this goes longer, the Rays portion of the new stadium won't be half anymore, it will unfortunately be more and more as cost of building anything goes up. Honestly, it's shitty for the Rays as sleasy as they are, the hurricane situation may force them to sell by no fault of their own. But if it ultimately gets the stadium built in Tampa then the community and fans are who will come out the winners in all of this.
I follow the Ray's daily. The word on the street is that there is a Tampa ownership group that wants to buy the team and build a stadium in Tampa (Ybor city) and that Pete Manfred and the other MLB owners are fed up with Stu Sternberg and his antics and are pressuring him to sell the team. The question is, does Stu keep the land and development right to the Trop property.
They cannot negotiate with Tampa or they will owe St Pete $300M. If they even talk to Tampa without St Pete's permission, they are in breach/ The Ybor City land is gone. Nothing is getting built there.
Who's gonna pay for the Tampa stadium? If you're telling me that it will be entirely privately financed I have an actually functional transportation system in the Tampa Bay Area to sell you.
Honestly, I don’t get why their playing in a spring training field in Florida, I’m sure Nashville or New Orleans have better Triple A stadiums, hell the Bison piratically play in a major league stadium. I know this wouldn’t be the most practical either, but they could also at least try to play out of Raymond James during the summer, then they’d at least actually be playing in Tampa for once and finally have an easy spot for fans to go to
The Rays should wise up & get the hell out of Florida. Why throw away good money on a bad stadium? The Pilots played in Sicks Stadium for a year before moving to Milwaukee, the Expos played in Jarry Park before moving into Olympic Stadium. Amongst other teams that played in older parks before moving or relocating to a new park. The longer the Rays stay in Florida the more they are screwed.
Weird question: Am I the only one, who thinks it shouldn't take THAT damn long, to put a new roof on The Trop? I feel like if we were dealing with professionals from back in 1990, the Rays would be back at Tropicana Field at least by the All Star break.
Does the lease say how long they have to repair? If not, looks like the Rays are out of luck. They can demand it all they want. They didn't get it in writing. Shame on them.
@@GDavis49 They cannot negotiate with anyone without St Pete's permission until the lease ends at the end of the 2028 season or they breach the contract and have to pay St Pete $300-400M. The Rays have to pay all bonds on the facility if they breach, including any bonds issued to repair it.
@@MrMac1138 Not besides the point, it’s exactly the point I’m making. Two teams near or at the bottom in attendance every year. The Marlins got their new ballpark and still no one goes. Don’t make that mistake again, time to move on in Tampa
Rays need to man up and end this song and dance. They can build their dome on the foundation of the Big Sombrero just north of the Bucs' stadium. The coveted ballpark village builds up the parking lot to the east.
@@GDavis49sadly that’s where Pinellas County has The Rays by the coattails. The best scenario truly would be Miami until either the Tropicana Field is repaired or their new stadium is done.
@@chuckazeee The logistical issues in Miami would be similar. Four hour drive one way from Tampa to Miami for example. No simple answers to this of course but playing in the Tampa area for the time being seems to me to be the only reasonable solution
@@GDavis49 Well I guess Steinbrenner Field is the only viable solution. Losing 15 million just to rent the stadium until The Pinellas County can come up with a way to fix the stadium
By not fixing the stadium St. Petersburg can extend the lease forever and then stop them from building a new stadium anywhere else. If the Rays decide to build in Nashville, the city could start repairs and force them back to St. Pete.
The Rays cannot build anything. They are still bound by the lease when it comes to negotiating a permanent home. Nashville won't build them anything anyways. Voters are upset about the Titans stadium and the Sounds own part of the minor league park. Nashville would have to break the lease with the AAA team and pay over $100 million to break that agreement. Then spend another $600M+ on a ballpark after spending $1.3 Billion on a football stadium. That's not happening. Neither will it happen in Charlotte, who faces a similar situation.
Legal arbitration and a law suit will come in eventually. If the city/county actually delayed it for more than 18mo then I bet a judge would side with them. That would only solve the lease buyout agreement. Side note - Nashville has publically announced that they do not have any more public funds as they just footed the approx $1B for the new Titans stadium. Nashville is great and all, but that may be an even harder spot to find money to get a stadium built.
@@ArizonaHotSauce Nashville also has to pay $100M to get out of the lease with their AAA club since that club PAID for part of their stadium. They would have to have evidence the city intentionally delayed it. If they put it through their normal process, it will take 24 months to repair due to bidding, environmental studies, etc. They city is under NO OBLIGATION to suspend normal process. The Rays can argue that they should, but the contract does not require it. As long as the city has nothing that says it is intentionally trying to slow things down. BTW, they can say that they see no reason to speed it up. The Rays have NO mechanism for forcing the city to move faster.
This is unbelievable. If this was my landlord, I'd be gone and then I would sue. This is absolutely St. Pete's responsibility. You can't interpret that contract any other way
Which is why Cities should stay the hell away from these things. The building costs and bonds never recoup the costs to build. Unless you do it like the Vikings deal or something along those lines where the team paid back all the bonds and now own the stadium outright. City does not have any more responsibility.
Yes, but the contract does not have any timeline for repair stipulated. St Pete has said they are going to repair, but St Pete also has the right to define the process. The Rays have no right under the contract to dictate timelines.
@@MrMac1138 they do. They are the tenants. Tenant rights in Florida state that a landlord must provide in writing a timeline of repairs within 7 days. If the timeline is not suitable, the tenant reserves the right to terminate the lease. The Rays are giving them over a year. That's more than enough time and more time than I would ever give a landlord
I think the city/county want them gone........ and the team wants to move. But neither side wants to be the one that makes that happen. Both sides are to blame here. This can't continue. Might be time for the team to just open negotiations with another city and move. Even if they take a penalty for vacating. It can't be worse than being stuck in temporary homes for multiple seasons.
They can't. Under the lease agreement, any negotiations with another city for a long term home without the approval of St Pete will breach the contract. St Pete can then kick the Rays out and they would have to pay off all bonds on Tropicana Field - $300-400M. The penalty for vacating is at least $300M. And the Rays are not likely to get a deal as good as St Pete gave them on a new facility anywhere else.
@@MrMac1138 At what point is enough, enough? When is the city in violation of the lease due to failure to fix the stadium in a timely manner? Had the city not gotten cute with reducing the insurance coverage, the stadium would be well on its way to repair. Enough with the "we'll fix it when we feel like it". Either fix it, help them move forward with the new stadium or let them negotiate a relocation.
@@kmabru The city is in violation if they are clearly not moving forward with repairs. The NORMAL process for this takes about 12 months to just approve a plan. Cities have rules for this when it comes to bidding, evaluation, studies on proposals, etc. Just going out and hiring a no bid contract is not something a city normally does, even for repairs unless they emergencies. Is this an emergency? Fixing the NE Sewer plant is and St Pete expedited it. The city has no obligation under the lease to fix the stadium outside of its process. The city is also waiting on insurance money and FEMA money. BTW, the insurer would have pushed back on a payoff and the city STILL would have a process they must go through. St Pete has clearly stated that they are moving forward with the goal to get the facility open for 2026 Opening Day. Their letter says as much, but they are also clearly stating that the lease agreement has NO REQUIREMENT for this. They are just informing the Rays that they do not get to dictate terms here. The Rays letter was also carefully worded to not appear as a demand. I do not think St Pete is going to slow roll this. But even in an expedited process, they still need to get bids. They just spent several million on cleanup and I KNOW people that had to be part of that and log every single bit of damage so the city can make sure it gets repaired. Do you have any idea how much effort that took? St Pete now has that and they JUST completed cleanup and implementation of a temporary system for drainage to mitigate further damage. They also need to bid out someone to make the roof and someone to install it. They also need to bid out people to clean out all mold that is discovered from the building being open. The Rays KNOW how complex this is. They sent that letter because they are trying to make people feel bad for them. St Pete just basically said they will work hard to get it done, but they cannot guarantee anything. What happens if another storm blows in while they are trying to fasten the new roof? The real reason they Rays do not like this is they do not want any more time added to the lease and they have no means to do anything about it.
If I were the Rays owners, I would just move the team. They have had constant problems with the city and county. Clearly toxic business environment for the Rays. San Antonio, Nashville, Charlotte, all great options.
This is all part of the back and forth "plan" the council went with when they called the Rays' bluff and passed the stadium funding. They want to run out the clock to March 31st so they can just wipe their hands clean of the entire situation and thus, the Rays and their ownership/management, and the Rays lose out on the development and land deal. This will they/wont they stadium drama has been going on for like 15 years now. This is just the latest episode. I feel like the Yankees' good will with Steinbrenner is probably only good for 2 years max. What happens then? Who knows. Probably a new stadium idea!
Tampa has said again and again that they will not offer any public money to build a baseball stadium. They haven't said it, but it's apparent that any public money from Tampa will go towards a new Bucs stadium. That will be the new hot topic in less than three years. Tampa cannot lose the Bucs.
This city needs to lose this team. There are 10 minor league teams in NC because the state loves baseball that much. They would pull 30,000 a game there easy because the state supports baseball. This is a market that desperately needs a major league team. It's a waste to have a team in a city where the fans and the city leaders won't support them. The sad part is this team has made the playoffs most of the last 5 years with terrible support and a tough division. They deserve to be treated better than this.
Let's all be honest,loving to Orlando is the best overall option. It's only negative is for the fans in St Pete. Other than that, Large TV Market, Growing Population, Tourism, New State of the Art Ballpark, Great Location on I Drive and Withing walking distance to attractions, still within driving distance of Tampa Bay and list goes on. Orlando is the obvious best choice.
Tampa is the obvious choice, not Orlando. You must not be aware of TV market revenue streams. The Tampa TV market is the golden goose in all of this. Tampa and St. Pete share the TV market.
@@ArizonaHotSauce Orlando is also so transient. I-Drive is bad enough as it is - putting a ballpark on it would be a nightmare. If Orlando built something, it would be next to Camping World Stadium to the East or South of the 408.
@ True. The transient part is a selling point ala Las Vegas, but that doesn't equate to TV ratings as those transient folks aren't watching the games regularly from their home in the Ohio suburbs.
@@MrMac1138 Not sure what you mean be "If" Orlando builds something. The sight for the Ballpark has already been set and it's in a great location on I Drive.
lawyers, politicians, accountants, big money capitalists: ya gotta love 'em. Y don't they all cut the crap - Rays want to move elsewhere, city seems to have no use for them, mythical fan base could not care less - the golden hills of (fill in the name of a receptive city here) are calling. So go already.
This St Pete Rays situation is a dumpster fire. Build a stadium in Tampa which is major league and more assessable for the wealthy fans that can afford going to games. SMH.
Do a Gary Bettman Coyotes move. So, MLB forcibly buys the Rays, and sells them to a multimillionaire owner in Charlotte or one of the other expansion list cities. Guarantee Steinberg he gets an expansion team when he has a new stadium done. He gets a 5 year period to produce a stadium. If no new stadium, no replacement franchise. Make it simple.
Florida is a curse to MLB. Send them to Nashville and be done with it. Tampa Bay is holding the team hostage. Just end it. MLB tolerating this is ridiculous. There always were problems with the Trop site. And if the city can't make it work anywhere else, it simply doesn't work. Miami has a new park and nobody goes there except for the WBC. If the Marlins owner doesn't want to compete. Why should he have the team. It seems like the Marlins have everything Tampa doesn't have. And the Rays have everything the Marlins doesn't have. HEY CONTRACT ONE, AND MERGE THEM AND HAVE AN EXPANSION TEAM... in Orlando? Nah, Nashville would be better... Why have two bad teams in FLA when you can have one, and a more exciting option in Orlando... where people MAY want to come to games, but people in Miami and Tampa Bay, don't. If the city won't let the team work in Tampa Bay, they should move, or be merged with the Marlins. It makes more sense to merge with the Marlins than it did to contract the Expos and Twins.
If I'm owner of the Ray's, I'm looking for the most advantageous way to stop doing business with St. Pete and Pinellas, and get the hell out of that dilapidated area run by moronic government officials.
Dilapidated? It's the nicest area in the entire state for Florida. If the Rays even talk to another city, they breach and ow St Pete $300-400M. They have to pay off ALL bonds for Tropicana Field if they do this. That's what the lease agreement says. They need St Pete's permission to talk to anyone else about a long term lease.
This is government speed and efficiency at its best! Government is never fast at all, especially when these amount of large funds that aren't budgeted to come up with all the funds to rebuild. 🤠👍
Rays have won nothing. St Pete has a process in place. Cities do not just go and do repairs immediately - they have to be accountable to taxpayers. St Pete called the Rays bluff. St Pete has no obligation to stick to the Rays timeline and the Rays cannot talk to another city until the end of the 2028 season.
@ We will see, but to say the Rays have won nothing is inaccurate. Both sides are in the wrong if you ask me. This is like a marriage that has gone bad and too late to salvage. Divorce eminent.
Trop Fixes approved.... or new stadium approved... or neither...?
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Hey Brodie,
What if walking away from Tampa Bay is actually dumber than it looks? MLB might be playing with fire, and not just for Stu Sternberg.
Think broader: Florida's got massive MLB infrastructure. We're talking about:
Spring training facilities across the state
Billions in public funds supporting those venues
Relationships with state politicians that took years to build
MLB just strong-armed Florida after two natural disasters and now wants to bail on a $600M public money deal? That's not just burning one bridge - that's torching the entire MLB-Florida relationship. Other team owners with spring training investments in Florida have WAY more to lose than just this one stadium.
Manfred personally showed up to make this happen. You don't do that unless the stakes are massive. This feels like Sternberg vs. everybody - but "everybody" includes some seriously powerful economic players who don't want their Florida investments torpedoed.
Two expansion teams are coming, meaning 3 new stadiums need funding. And here's the kicker - Tampa Bay's got a first-generation fanbase just coming of age. MLB would essentially have to build THREE fanbases from scratch and potentially cannibalize existing team territories. Walking away looks less like strategy and more like corporate suicide.
MLB's got WAY more to lose by ditching this than staying put.
As a longtime Rays fan, I need someone to send me some Tylenol for the headache this whole situation is giving me 😂
Say hello to the Nashville Rays... :) Just kidding. I actually love the Rays because they can win on a tight budget and do things right. I really think they should move to Orlando though. It is a better location for them.
When did the new park in Nashville open? never heard it on the news
@@scotttild Tampa is better, not Orlando.
Great video as always Brodie. Thanks for keeping us informed on this stadium debacle and all the information available. Keep it up man!
It's so sad to see another team go in the same situation my exes put me through and whilst I would love to reassure Rays fans that everything will be ok I sadly know it won't
I live here in Tampa. If they build the new stadium in Ybor (downtown Tampa) it will solve most of the issues. I would definitely purchase season tickets.
Tampa or Orlando would be better. I don't know why they are fixated on that dreadful location. Like they have a one track mind.
It won't. St Pete is a much better location than Tampa. A million people live within a 30 minute drive. There are MORE people within 45 minutes of St Pete than their are for downtown Tampa.
@@MrMac1138 a million people who've had 27 years, 17 years as a competitive team, to grow and support the team. They haven't. They would do far better attendance on the east side of the bay. I know numerous people who refuse to go to any night games, solely because the traffic is that bad.
@@scotttild St. Pete comes with $600m of public money and the rights to use of 62 acres in downtown St. Pete, Tampa does not. Tampa (area) comes with a better TV market than Orlando. Those two statements explain the problem with why they are fixated on St. Pete. The 62 acres thing is the most absurd part of some agreement made nearly 30 years ago. It's nearly impossible for the Rays to walk away from $600m of "free" money and 62 acres of downtown real estate. Everybody knows Tampa is the best choice, followed by St. Pete (only for TV market purposes, albiet terrible location), and then if necessary, Orlando.
@@naturallawman2965 They would not. The issue nowadays is the facility, not the location. In the past it was because people in Tampa were too snooty to drive over the bridge. That has changed with improvements to crossing and just St Pete being so much nicer than Tampa right now.
If they refuse to go because of traffic, that is an issue with the people that chose to live on that side of the bay. BTW, the traffic is getting progressively worse on 275 through Tampa, so they will still use the excuse.
The issue is the Trop feels like Costco. Tampa also does not have the money to do it.
St. Pete is saying “We can have the new stadium built before repairing the old one if you just move forward with construction as agreed upon, otherwise, we will extend the lease and you can’t move anywhere or have a new stadium, take your pick Stu!”
This is pretty much it. If the Rays sign the agreement on the new deal, St Pete will likely work hard to expedite repairs and get Tropicana Field ready for 2026. But there is nothing in the agreement that says they have a timeline. St Pete can go through a longer bidding process to give the city the best value, but that could take several months. How things are usually done, they likely would give bidders time to sent a proposal and costs then they would have time to evaluate. This usually would take 180 days AT LEAST between solicitation of bids, a timeline to submit, and then at least 60 days for St Pete to review the bids. Under normal process, it is likely the city may not get anything started until the Fall of this year. Can they expedite it? Yes, but that costs money. They also are expecting FEMA money as well as insurance money. FEMA money will take some time as well.
The Rays are just warning them that it is possible the lease will need to be extended. As long as St Pete is truly working towards repairing, it will be hard for the Rays to claim they are intentionally stalling. St Pete just needs to be clear in all communications that it is working to fix the Trop but it needs to be sure it has the funding and time to review bids to protect taxpayers. That can take time.
The Rays also cannot talk to anyone else outside of St Pete about a stadium for the future while the lease is active. That comes with penalties - the Rays would have to pay the remaining bonds on the stadium, including any bonds issues for repairs. That could be $300-400M. They also would lose the 50% real estate development rights.
The Rays will likely try to create a condition for the new stadium that requires Tropicana Field to be done in 2026.
Pretty much. The city is waiting to even see if the Rays are going to uphold the New Stadium agreement and bring forth their funding and hopefully break ground by the end of March.
At that point if the Rays aren't moving on the new ballpark...I think the city has done the math... They are going to buyout the final years of the Trop lease and say good luck.
@@JeffBezosIsSanta I think it's far time the Rays look towards relocation
@@herotomillions4095 They cannot until the lease expires or they will owe St Pete $300-400 million. If they even talk to another city, they are in breach of contract. St Pete can kick them out and make them pay all outstanding bonds. As of now, they cannot talk to another city without St Pete approval until their season ends in 2028.
Even St. Pete knows a new stadium can't be built in a year. But the Trop can be fixed. This is intentional because the city knows the Rays need money from their own home.
This whole situation is ridiculous. Steinbrenner Field is an emergency fix, not a permanent one, particularly with those ticket prices.
Teams have changed ballparks in-season before. The Reds moved from Crosley Field to Riverfront Stadium at the All-Star break in 1970.
Same with the Pirates in the same season. They moved from Forbes Field to Three Rivers Stadium in mid-1970 as well.
Before the All Star Break the Reds moved into Riverfront Stadium on June 30, 1970
I just relized i wasnt subscribed am now i have waited over 2 years thinkings i was subscribed.
Jimmy from Chicago….Thanks Brodie!……😊😊😊
I get that things are in the lease....but it's laughable that the Rays suddenly care about attendance.
Dang Brodie how do you make so many vids
The commissioner said the team will not leave the Tampa Bay area. Orlando is not in the Tampa Bay area!
Correct. Brodie should have said Tampa and not Orlando in his statement.
the commissioner said it would be a mistake to leave oakland...
@@brodiebrazil Score one for Brodie!!
@ San Fran and Oakland share a TV market so the A's leaving Oakland didn't leave MLB out of the SF TV market. If the Rays left Tampa/St. Pete then yeah, that market (which is higher/better than Orlando) would be left empty. To my understanding, the Tampa TV market is what Manfred cherishes. Leaving Oakland was unfortunately not as big of a deal to MLB as would leaving Tampa/St. Pete.
@@ArizonaHotSauceTampa bay isn’t NYC or LA bro, calm down lol. They aren’t the hot market you believe.
Small nitpick, but I'm tired of media outlets using the photos of the Trop from directly after the storm with the roof in tatters. The city spent ~$6 million to clean it up/waterpoof as possible, and it looks much less like a war zone today.
yes, great point, I agree with you. there's also a drastic lack of current photos.
The longer the City drags this out, the less likely the Rays can solidify the financial backing for the redevelopment of the Stadium District. The City of St. Pete could totally ruin their downtown plans with this "No Rush" strategy.
Also, the City is risking further damage to the Trop by not fixing the roof. It rains often in the Tampa Bay region. That could add to the potential repair cost.
The city has already allocated funds and opened the bidding process. However, the bidding process can take time because bids need to be written up and evaluated - and sometimes revised.
@MrMac1138 Fine. But none of that will matter without a new stadium to anchor the Stadium District. And that redevelopment relies on the Rays.
I'm sure that Salt Lake City, Louisville, Memphis, Montreal or even Orlando and/or Oakland would gladly welcome the Rays to play there for as long as they like, especially since Tampa/St. Pete don't seem too enthusiastic about giving them a new stadium. Just sayin.'
SLC and Oakland yes, because they actually have stadiums or money for stadiums. The rest don't.
I have no inside information. However, this is my hunch as to what will transpire. It seems as if St. Pete, Pinellas County, and the Rays are done with each other and the inevitable separation will happen.
Rays will make an agreement for a new stadium with Orlando to be built by International Drive. The team will play at Disney Wide World of sports stadium starting in 2026 until the new Orlando stadium is built.
The Rays will then have to pay St Pete $300-400M if they negotiate this even one minute before their lease expires at the end of the 2028 season. They cannot speak to anyone other that St Pete unless St Pete gives them permission until the lease expires. They can negotiate short term stays while the lease is suspended, but that is limited only to that time.
This also could extend to 2029. But Orlando can make NO plans with the Rays until the lease expires or the Rays will have to pay all outstanding bonds on Tropicana Field. If St Pete bonds out repairs, the Rays would have to pay that too.
If the Rays sign the new stadium agreement, things likely will be much easier. Rumor here is Sternberg is soliciting offers to sell the Rays. But the lease is very ironclad.
@@MrMac1138 Didn't the Rays negotiate with Tampa/Hillsborough several years back?
This thumbnail got me thinking that if there's some sort of strong UV blocking glass that could be the roof of the stadium, that'd be pretty sweet. Something that would let the sun in but block the UV radiation so that it didn't pass the heat through. Not sure if a material is even a thing in such a large area like would be needed, but just an idea that popped in my head.
I feel like these are two issues--old park and new park--that, in a perfect world, would be handled independently of each other, but will end up unavoidably influencing the other for better or worse, making this who situation that much more difficult to get through.
Here's what I don't understand about this whole situation: why wouldn't St. Pete/Pinellas County make sure the repairs are done ASAP? They're going to want to rent the unit out and get the revenue for it as quickly as possible to a tenant if they're not going to want to completely tear it down because it's no longer of use to them. If they're going to want to rent it, they should be repairing it. If they're going to want to tear it down, why extend the lease with the Rays?
Because they have a bidding process. You cannot just blindly repair it since you are using public money. That means they need to solicit several bids and then review them. They just finished cleanup and assessment. Bidding usually will take a least 60 days. Evaluation takes at least 30 days. So they may have something decided in May that could start over the summer.
@@MrMac1138 : that's true, but it doesn't really answer the question. The damage happened months ago. Even with the slow machinations of government and (should they choose to do so) open tender bidding processes, we're at the end of January now. We haven't heard one way or the other whether they're even thinking about a bidding process. They're in this "a little bit pregnant" stage with the stadium.
In 1975 the Yankees and Mets shared Shea Stadium as Yankee Stadium was going through renovations . Because this is sort of the same situation why can’t the Rays share a stadium with the Marlins who are at least in the same state.
1974 and 1975
Tampa to Miami is a four hour drive one way with no traffic. Way different than Queens to The Bronx.
@ It’s still a professional stadium opposed to a spring training facility..
@@BoulderCityBlues They needed a local option and Steinbrenner Field was the best choice available
@ They only have it for one year , then what ? Do they fix a roof on a dump they are going to take down or relocate to another city ..Playing a few seasons on Miami would allow them the time to build their new stadium if approved and the way the Marlins draw as bad as the Rays they could use the revenue
Brodie, can you do a segment on - Chad Bowden Named USC Football General Manager?
What exactly does this position do?
A better video would to be address GM positions in college sports. He should not mention a specific team other than to perhaps list a teams using the GM roles.
There are some pretty strong rumors floating around right now that Stu is in negotiations with a Tampa based group to sell the team. That group would want to move the team to Tampa but Stu also wants the developer of the Gasplant District.
@@GREYMlLE that's not going to change anything. Where are they playing in 2026?
Tampa will not pay a dime for the Rays. They are going to need to shell out over $500M for the Bucs soon. They also cannot move or negotiate with Tampa under the lease without St Pete's permission. St Pete would force them to give up the Gasplant development as a condition, just like last time. You leave St Pete, you lose all development rights. That's the deal.
This situation is stupid. MLB needs to come in with the $56,000,000 and get this done. That is a miniscule amount in MLB standards. They can then work on getting reimbursed from either the Rays or the city.
Sets a very bad precedent for MLB.
@ True, maybe MLB should force the Rays to come up with the money. You can’t tell me they don’t have it. I’m tired of these professionals sports teams crying poor when we all know they have the money. I stand by my statement that this situation is stupid though 🤣
The City is waiting on the Rays to agree on their new stadium deal. The city has already approved repairs to AL Lang Stadium for the Tampa Bay Rowdies which is owed by The Rays.
Al Lang stadium repairs were minimal. The Rays can only agree on the deal if they are guaranteed the revenue from 2026 season in the Trop. If the city delays the ability for the Rays to play in the Trop for nearly any portion then the Rays won't be able to afford their portion of the new stadium. It's a chicken vs egg situation.
just started construction on new stadium. just torn down now.
Driving to and from the Tampa airport it was pretty jarring to see the bare ribs of the roof. Right from the interstate. From a Public relations standpoint you would think they would repair the eyesore
Move them to Montreal
Montreal is out, Olympic Stadium is shut down and not a ballpark in the first place
If I were the owner of the Rays, I either look to move, if I can’t find the right situation or enough investors, I sell the team & walk away
If I’m either with the county or city governments working as mayor, commissioner, or council person, I give one last best offer, take it or leave it. If the Rays do not agree, walk away from the deal. Then pass a resolution that MLB and the Rays business is not well in the city or county
Neither side trusts each other , when neither side trust each other- an agreement is out of the question
The relocation talks should have started 15 years ago. The Rays and their pathetic attendance issues have been an embarrassment for MLB almost since their inception. When is Manfred going to say "enough" and put a firm deadline down to get a temporary and long term post-Trop deal in place? If MLB could go back 30 years and award expansion to another market, you can bet they would.
100% 👍
Stadium should have been in Tampa instead of Saint Petersburg. Tampa area has a population of 3.2 million and that is more than Denver, Baltimore, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Cleveland or Pittsburgh.
@@Dept246 That includes St Pete. BTW, St Pete, Clearwater, the beaches, Largo, and Pinellas Park combined are SMALLER than Tampa and have more people. Nearly a million people live in Pinellas and St Pete actually has the geographic center of the Bay area AND the center of population.
Cue up Stevie Nicks / Tom Petty song for background: Stop Draggin My Heart Around 🤣
They're going to lose that team and never get one back, just like Oakland.
Maybe. But Rays cannot deal with any other city while they are under the lease, which now will hold them in St Pete through the end of the 2028 season. If they break it, they will owe St Pete a couple hundred million in damages as they would have to pay off the bonds AND pay back all repairs St Pete will complete now. It could cost the Rays $400M to leave St Pete.
They could wait for the lease to expire and then have no where to play, like Oakland. MLB is not likely to let that happen.
@@MrMac1138 MLB also doesn't want a team to leave that market either. Unlike Oakland. MLB wanted out of Oakland, and Manfred wasn't phased by it at all, because in his own words "they still have the Giants".
@@MrMac1138 They have a lease for a wrecked stadium, with the owners of the stadium saying essentially they will fix it when they get around to it. Sounds like grounds to break the lease if they don't start making a sincere effort to get it fixed.
Having the stadium in Tampa would be the best option but that would require an owner with deep pockets willing to foot the bill. The city of Tampa doesn’t have the funds to build a baseball stadium and renovate Raymond James for the Bucs
It’s clear,baseball is not important or high on the priority list to the city…Orlando, would fill up the empty seats,offer the team a huge fan base..
Move to Tampa where more fans can come forget St.Pete not a good location. The whole situation is a mess. Take care Brodie
This is such a great chance for St Pete to be done with a team that is a millstone on their necks. Let them go and don’t let the door hit them on the way out
Lou Piniella has his own county? :)
This is ridiculous. I've said this all along: fix up Tropicana Field and give it a nice renovation and then the Rays can play there for the next thirty years. If they don't like it they can either pay $1.3 billion dollars for their shiny new stadium elsewhere, or keep their mouth shut and learn to be grateful for what they have. How's that for a wild idea?
The Rays should just move to Orlando. Staying in St Pete, even with a new stadium will just mean continued low attendance and depending on revenue sharing. At least in Orlando they will sell a lot of seats to visiting fans.
How long are they planning to leave an exposed interior Trop that was not weatherproof to continue getting exposed to the elements?
Can't blame the city really. Major construction projects take time to come to fruition. There are no guarantees with construction projects. To do so is foolish and doomed to fail to meet deadlines.
I wonder if it would just be cheaper to rip it off and just update everything internally. I know there are drainage issues and such, but it if it only going to be for a year. They should really just share with the Marlins. That is really the best option rather then paying the Yankees'.
Omaha is a better option than Miami. The only thing Miami offers with the idea (a bad one at that) is that it's the closest MLB stadium. Miami is in an entirely different TV market and nearly nightmare'ish logistic issues with a "foreign" team needing to share a stadium. The Rays would have to pay a huge bill to rent the stadium on their game days and then to also receive nearly nothing in return as far as revenue. Omaha has the biggest non-occupied (Creighton Univ. baseball team isn't that big a deal) stadium which could allow the best case for revenue. The location is a wash as would be with Miami. The team leaving the Tampa area would be the biggest hit for TV market purposes. The TV media is the golden goose in negotiations in all of this.
I think your right, judging from the overhead photo they should remove anything hanging loose from the roof trusses and clean up and repair what they can inside the park and play. If they choose to remove the trusses do it in the off-season. For crying out from what I'm hearing both sides are making it more difficult then it has to be.
@ All of that stuff hanging is already gone. The Rays are essentially screwed and are panicking. MLB could force them to sell if they back out of the offer St. Pete and Pinellas offered them.
@@jamesthomas7405 I would think they could put in some drainage waterproof the electronics and be done with it. Not sure if they could do some cheap twins style inflatable roof for the short term. Just need a fix of some kind for a couple years.
Can’t the Rays step up and fund the fixes in return for later rent reductions, etc?
Welcome to the intersection of the entertainment side of sports that we all love, and the business side of sports that we all dislike. Ultimately, there are so many fascinating “what-if” scenarios, but anything short of some sort of renegotiation of the lease or settlement seems unlikely. Neither party will agree to the literal interpretation as presented here.
Watch how to quickly Rays execs bail on the club and get hired by other teams.
I think it all comes down to money:
1) Does the city want to spend $56 million or more on stadium repairs for a stadium that will be only be used a few years and then be torn down when they already commited even more toward construction of a new stadium?
2) Does the City of St. Petersburg have the money to fix Tropicana Field right now anyway, the portion not covered by Insurance or FEMA?
3) Can the Rays afford to build the new Gas Plant Stadium even if Pinellas County and the City of St Petersburg are funding part of it with today's costs?
4) Are the Rays willing to delay their new stadium and play at Tropicana Field for longer if they or the city of St Petersburg puts up the money to fix it to justify the repair costs?
5) Would it be cheaper for the Rays to just lease another ballpark for a couple of years (e.g. Steinbrenner Field, Baycare Ballpark, Joker Marchant Stadium, JetBlue Park, Disney World Wide World of Sports Stadium, Al Lang Field, etc) if they do go ahead with the new stadium, considering the ticket revenue was less due to the smaller seating capacity than the cost of repairing Tropicana field for a few years, adding to it the demolition costs later?
7) Are any other cities going to offer the Rays a better stadium deal (e.g. Tampa, Orlando, Montreal, Puerto Rico, Omaha, Nashville, Charlotte, Austin, Oakland, etc) if they move elsewhere or are they going to run into the same finance issues there?
It is a tough situation for the Rays.
The answer is 4. Fix up Tropicana Field and give it a nice renovation and then the Rays can play there for the next thirty years. If they don't like it they can fart out $1.3 billion dollars and take it somewhere else.
If Tropicana Field doesn't get timely repairs I think the Rays will claim it is unreasonable and use it as pretext to break their lease with St. Pete. St. Pete seems to want that anyway. They don't want to pay for repairs or a "public/private" collaborative ballpark build. Just my opinion.
There’s got to be a deadline to fix the roof otherwise the city can take their time. The city could wait until 2027 to fix the roof if they under no obligation to repair as quickly as possible. This should break the lease because the Rays need a stadium to sell tickets and earn money.
Why do some podcasters wear headphones while others don’t? Is there some value or advantage to do so?
The hypocrisy of the Rays is impressive… they want to throw out the agreement for the new statement, but somehow they want to keep the Trop agreement.
With interest in baseball fading, and the Rays already having very low attendance, they should just fold and build pickle ball courts on that space where the trop is after it's removed,
I’m wondering if the city and county are both trying to force the Rays into failing to comply, to make the Gas Plant plan fail, so the city and county can take all that land for themselves.
Sounds like the city of st. Pete and the county have no strong interest in repairing the Tropicana and instead they’re just hoping or pushing the idea of building a new stadium and have the Rays play in a temporary stadium.
The best solution is for the Rays to get into transition mode to another city preferably outside of FL where MLB baseball is wanted not an after thought.
The writing is on the wall. The Rays will inevitably move to Orlando
It also won't be long before MLB works on the 2026 schedule.
Then on top of that if they can get it open by the start of the 2027 season what happens if there is no MLB due to the new CBA being negotiated? This is a mess.
This is going straight into litigation. St Pete will end up funding the rays portion of the new stadium from the damages awarded. The funny thing (not if you pay taxes in St Pete) is the new stadium will be somewhere else when all is said and done.
Not sure how the Rays would win anything. There is no timeline in the contract for repairing and there is a natural disaster clause. St Pete does have an obligation to repair the facility, but the Rays have no right to try to force a faster rebuild that would cost St Pete more money. St Pete is allowed to go through its standard process for bidding our construction, etc. The real thing the Rays do not like it the lease is suspended while the Trop is under repair. Now the Rays have to play at Tropicana Field through 2028. If repairs take longer, it may be 2029.
@@MrMac1138 And due to all of this, the cost of a new stadium goes up every year. The Rays need the revenue from an MLB stadium to help them pay for their portion of the new stadium. This is an impossible scenario as St. Pete and Pinellas have said very clear that they will not offer one more penny above $600m for the new stadium. The Rays are unfortunately screwed without much room to hurry this up. Stu is not a billionaire so the Rays ownership group isn't made of money to just write a check for their half of the stadium. And as this goes longer, the Rays portion of the new stadium won't be half anymore, it will unfortunately be more and more as cost of building anything goes up.
Honestly, it's shitty for the Rays as sleasy as they are, the hurricane situation may force them to sell by no fault of their own. But if it ultimately gets the stadium built in Tampa then the community and fans are who will come out the winners in all of this.
I follow the Ray's daily. The word on the street is that there is a Tampa ownership group that wants to buy the team and build a stadium in Tampa (Ybor city) and that Pete Manfred and the other MLB owners are fed up with Stu Sternberg and his antics and are pressuring him to sell the team. The question is, does Stu keep the land and development right to the Trop property.
They cannot negotiate with Tampa or they will owe St Pete $300M. If they even talk to Tampa without St Pete's permission, they are in breach/
The Ybor City land is gone. Nothing is getting built there.
Who's gonna pay for the Tampa stadium? If you're telling me that it will be entirely privately financed I have an actually functional transportation system in the Tampa Bay Area to sell you.
Honestly, I don’t get why their playing in a spring training field in Florida, I’m sure Nashville or New Orleans have better Triple A stadiums, hell the Bison piratically play in a major league stadium. I know this wouldn’t be the most practical either, but they could also at least try to play out of Raymond James during the summer, then they’d at least actually be playing in Tampa for once and finally have an easy spot for fans to go to
They can't leave the Tampa Bay Area or they risk losing their fancy land deal in St. Pete.
St. Pete will end up losing MLB.
The Rays should wise up & get the hell out of Florida. Why throw away good money on a bad stadium? The Pilots played in Sicks Stadium for a year before moving to Milwaukee, the Expos played in Jarry Park before moving into Olympic Stadium. Amongst other teams that played in older parks before moving or relocating to a new park. The longer the Rays stay in Florida the more they are screwed.
Weird question:
Am I the only one, who thinks it shouldn't take THAT damn long, to put a new roof on The Trop?
I feel like if we were dealing with professionals from back in 1990, the Rays would be back at Tropicana Field at least by the All Star break.
It sounds like a big game of chicken between the Rays and the local government.
Does the lease say how long they have to repair? If not, looks like the Rays are out of luck. They can demand it all they want. They didn't get it in writing. Shame on them.
Or just end the failed MLB experiment in Florida and let the team go elsewhere 👍
@@GDavis49 They cannot negotiate with anyone without St Pete's permission until the lease ends at the end of the 2028 season or they breach the contract and have to pay St Pete $300-400M. The Rays have to pay all bonds on the facility if they breach, including any bonds issued to repair it.
@@MrMac1138 However or whenever it happens it won’t change the fact that MLB expansion into Florida has been a failure
@@GDavis49 That is besides the point. MLB will not leave Florida and they would say the opposite because it expands their TV footprint.
@@MrMac1138 Not besides the point, it’s exactly the point I’m making. Two teams near or at the bottom in attendance every year. The Marlins got their new ballpark and still no one goes. Don’t make that mistake again, time to move on in Tampa
TB Rays looking more and more like the Orlando Rays everyday this drags out.
If that happens, TB might repair the stadium and collect rent (for a now unused facility) under the resumption of the lease - just out of spite.
Orlando doesn't have a ballpark ready to go
Forget the roof they can play there without it.
Rays need to man up and end this song and dance. They can build their dome on the foundation of the Big Sombrero just north of the Bucs' stadium. The coveted ballpark village builds up the parking lot to the east.
Rays can ask MLB for a repair loan or ask Juan Soto. Dont have enough funds avail for this or player improvement, maybe just read the tea leaves
Why would they other teams fork up the bill? Why should they?
Tear down Tropicana Field, start building the new park and allow The Rays to play in Omaha until the new park is ready.
So the players, their families and team staff live in hotels the entire season for 4-5 years? Never going to happen
@@GDavis49sadly that’s where Pinellas County has The Rays by the coattails. The best scenario truly would be Miami until either the Tropicana Field is repaired or their new stadium is done.
@@chuckazeee The logistical issues in Miami would be similar. Four hour drive one way from Tampa to Miami for example. No simple answers to this of course but playing in the Tampa area for the time being seems to me to be the only reasonable solution
@@GDavis49 Well I guess Steinbrenner Field is the only viable solution. Losing 15 million just to rent the stadium until The Pinellas County can come up with a way to fix the stadium
It was a super bad idea to make a new stadium in st.pete, i believe ybor would benefit more revenue in tampa instead just my opinion
By not fixing the stadium St. Petersburg can extend the lease forever and then stop them from building a new stadium anywhere else. If the Rays decide to build in Nashville, the city could start repairs and force them back to St. Pete.
The Rays cannot build anything. They are still bound by the lease when it comes to negotiating a permanent home. Nashville won't build them anything anyways. Voters are upset about the Titans stadium and the Sounds own part of the minor league park. Nashville would have to break the lease with the AAA team and pay over $100 million to break that agreement. Then spend another $600M+ on a ballpark after spending $1.3 Billion on a football stadium. That's not happening. Neither will it happen in Charlotte, who faces a similar situation.
Nashville ain't happening. Local government has already said they're not ready yet. Salt Lake City, Orlando or Montréal are more likely at this point.
Legal arbitration and a law suit will come in eventually. If the city/county actually delayed it for more than 18mo then I bet a judge would side with them. That would only solve the lease buyout agreement. Side note - Nashville has publically announced that they do not have any more public funds as they just footed the approx $1B for the new Titans stadium. Nashville is great and all, but that may be an even harder spot to find money to get a stadium built.
@@ArizonaHotSauce Nashville also has to pay $100M to get out of the lease with their AAA club since that club PAID for part of their stadium.
They would have to have evidence the city intentionally delayed it. If they put it through their normal process, it will take 24 months to repair due to bidding, environmental studies, etc. They city is under NO OBLIGATION to suspend normal process. The Rays can argue that they should, but the contract does not require it. As long as the city has nothing that says it is intentionally trying to slow things down. BTW, they can say that they see no reason to speed it up. The Rays have NO mechanism for forcing the city to move faster.
@@ArizonaHotSauce I was just using Nashville as an example. I'm pushing for San Antonio-Austin.
They could not attract fans.Rays should move to Tampa or other city.
This is unbelievable. If this was my landlord, I'd be gone and then I would sue. This is absolutely St. Pete's responsibility. You can't interpret that contract any other way
Which is why Cities should stay the hell away from these things. The building costs and bonds never recoup the costs to build. Unless you do it like the Vikings deal or something along those lines where the team paid back all the bonds and now own the stadium outright. City does not have any more responsibility.
@scotttild more like, the cities should be involved and should uphold their end
Yes, but the contract does not have any timeline for repair stipulated. St Pete has said they are going to repair, but St Pete also has the right to define the process. The Rays have no right under the contract to dictate timelines.
@@MrMac1138 they do. They are the tenants. Tenant rights in Florida state that a landlord must provide in writing a timeline of repairs within 7 days. If the timeline is not suitable, the tenant reserves the right to terminate the lease. The Rays are giving them over a year. That's more than enough time and more time than I would ever give a landlord
The Rays will never return to St. Pete.
After FEMA & insurance… the bill will be 14 Million
When does mlb step in?
I think the city/county want them gone........ and the team wants to move. But neither side wants to be the one that makes that happen. Both sides are to blame here. This can't continue. Might be time for the team to just open negotiations with another city and move. Even if they take a penalty for vacating. It can't be worse than being stuck in temporary homes for multiple seasons.
They can't. Under the lease agreement, any negotiations with another city for a long term home without the approval of St Pete will breach the contract. St Pete can then kick the Rays out and they would have to pay off all bonds on Tropicana Field - $300-400M.
The penalty for vacating is at least $300M. And the Rays are not likely to get a deal as good as St Pete gave them on a new facility anywhere else.
@@MrMac1138 At what point is enough, enough? When is the city in violation of the lease due to failure to fix the stadium in a timely manner? Had the city not gotten cute with reducing the insurance coverage, the stadium would be well on its way to repair. Enough with the "we'll fix it when we feel like it". Either fix it, help them move forward with the new stadium or let them negotiate a relocation.
@@kmabru The city is in violation if they are clearly not moving forward with repairs. The NORMAL process for this takes about 12 months to just approve a plan. Cities have rules for this when it comes to bidding, evaluation, studies on proposals, etc. Just going out and hiring a no bid contract is not something a city normally does, even for repairs unless they emergencies. Is this an emergency? Fixing the NE Sewer plant is and St Pete expedited it.
The city has no obligation under the lease to fix the stadium outside of its process. The city is also waiting on insurance money and FEMA money. BTW, the insurer would have pushed back on a payoff and the city STILL would have a process they must go through.
St Pete has clearly stated that they are moving forward with the goal to get the facility open for 2026 Opening Day. Their letter says as much, but they are also clearly stating that the lease agreement has NO REQUIREMENT for this. They are just informing the Rays that they do not get to dictate terms here. The Rays letter was also carefully worded to not appear as a demand.
I do not think St Pete is going to slow roll this. But even in an expedited process, they still need to get bids. They just spent several million on cleanup and I KNOW people that had to be part of that and log every single bit of damage so the city can make sure it gets repaired. Do you have any idea how much effort that took?
St Pete now has that and they JUST completed cleanup and implementation of a temporary system for drainage to mitigate further damage. They also need to bid out someone to make the roof and someone to install it. They also need to bid out people to clean out all mold that is discovered from the building being open.
The Rays KNOW how complex this is. They sent that letter because they are trying to make people feel bad for them. St Pete just basically said they will work hard to get it done, but they cannot guarantee anything. What happens if another storm blows in while they are trying to fasten the new roof?
The real reason they Rays do not like this is they do not want any more time added to the lease and they have no means to do anything about it.
Rays You look good in Canada or California my mans😂
If I were the Rays owners, I would just move the team. They have had constant problems with the city and county. Clearly toxic business environment for the Rays. San Antonio, Nashville, Charlotte, all great options.
This is all part of the back and forth "plan" the council went with when they called the Rays' bluff and passed the stadium funding. They want to run out the clock to March 31st so they can just wipe their hands clean of the entire situation and thus, the Rays and their ownership/management, and the Rays lose out on the development and land deal.
This will they/wont they stadium drama has been going on for like 15 years now. This is just the latest episode. I feel like the Yankees' good will with Steinbrenner is probably only good for 2 years max. What happens then? Who knows. Probably a new stadium idea!
And if the Rays talk to another city then the Rays owe them at least $300M.
Tampa should have built a stadium years ago instead of letting St. Pete build one.
Tampa has said again and again that they will not offer any public money to build a baseball stadium. They haven't said it, but it's apparent that any public money from Tampa will go towards a new Bucs stadium. That will be the new hot topic in less than three years. Tampa cannot lose the Bucs.
Rays coming to SLC.
Not likely. They must play in St Pete through at least 2028 now. Could end up being 2029.
Salt Lake City doesn't have a ballpark ready to go
Play one season at Steinbrenner field, declare bankruptcy and the deals are voided. Then move.
Ils vont perdre leurs équipe à cause d'une ville obstinée. Pareil comme à Montréal. 20 ans plus tard nous le regrettons encore! RIP TB and MTL!
Just move to Tampa already
How about option #3…. Orlando…love to Dream(ers)
This city needs to lose this team. There are 10 minor league teams in NC because the state loves baseball that much. They would pull 30,000 a game there easy because the state supports baseball. This is a market that desperately needs a major league team. It's a waste to have a team in a city where the fans and the city leaders won't support them. The sad part is this team has made the playoffs most of the last 5 years with terrible support and a tough division. They deserve to be treated better than this.
The Rays need to just leave Tampa because clearly Tampa doesn’t RESPECT the baseball organization
Let's all be honest,loving to Orlando is the best overall option. It's only negative is for the fans in St Pete. Other than that, Large TV Market, Growing Population, Tourism, New State of the Art Ballpark, Great Location on I Drive and Withing walking distance to attractions, still within driving distance of Tampa Bay and list goes on.
Orlando is the obvious best choice.
Tampa is the obvious choice, not Orlando. You must not be aware of TV market revenue streams. The Tampa TV market is the golden goose in all of this. Tampa and St. Pete share the TV market.
@@ArizonaHotSauce Orlando is also so transient. I-Drive is bad enough as it is - putting a ballpark on it would be a nightmare. If Orlando built something, it would be next to Camping World Stadium to the East or South of the 408.
@ True. The transient part is a selling point ala Las Vegas, but that doesn't equate to TV ratings as those transient folks aren't watching the games regularly from their home in the Ohio suburbs.
@@MrMac1138 Not sure what you mean be "If" Orlando builds something. The sight for the Ballpark has already been set and it's in a great location on I Drive.
that utah minor league stadium looks nice right now
lawyers, politicians, accountants, big money capitalists: ya gotta love 'em. Y don't they all cut the crap - Rays want to move elsewhere, city seems to have no use for them, mythical fan base could not care less - the golden hills of (fill in the name of a receptive city here) are calling. So go already.
Looking more likely this ends with the Rays relocating
This St Pete Rays situation is a dumpster fire. Build a stadium in Tampa which is major league and more assessable for the wealthy fans that can afford going to games. SMH.
At this point, the Rays should seek relocation. It sounds like the local government does not want the team
Do a Gary Bettman Coyotes move. So, MLB forcibly buys the Rays, and sells them to a multimillionaire owner in Charlotte or one of the other expansion list cities. Guarantee Steinberg he gets an expansion team when he has a new stadium done. He gets a 5 year period to produce a stadium. If no new stadium, no replacement franchise. Make it simple.
Florida is a curse to MLB. Send them to Nashville and be done with it. Tampa Bay is holding the team hostage. Just end it. MLB tolerating this is ridiculous. There always were problems with the Trop site. And if the city can't make it work anywhere else, it simply doesn't work. Miami has a new park and nobody goes there except for the WBC. If the Marlins owner doesn't want to compete. Why should he have the team. It seems like the Marlins have everything Tampa doesn't have. And the Rays have everything the Marlins doesn't have. HEY CONTRACT ONE, AND MERGE THEM AND HAVE AN EXPANSION TEAM... in Orlando? Nah, Nashville would be better... Why have two bad teams in FLA when you can have one, and a more exciting option in Orlando... where people MAY want to come to games, but people in Miami and Tampa Bay, don't. If the city won't let the team work in Tampa Bay, they should move, or be merged with the Marlins. It makes more sense to merge with the Marlins than it did to contract the Expos and Twins.
If I'm owner of the Ray's, I'm looking for the most advantageous way to stop doing business with St. Pete and Pinellas, and get the hell out of that dilapidated area run by moronic government officials.
If I a billionaire owner of the Rays, I would have mostly/fully funded my new stadium years ago. 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
Dilapidated? It's the nicest area in the entire state for Florida. If the Rays even talk to another city, they breach and ow St Pete $300-400M. They have to pay off ALL bonds for Tropicana Field if they do this. That's what the lease agreement says. They need St Pete's permission to talk to anyone else about a long term lease.
This is government speed and efficiency at its best! Government is never fast at all, especially when these amount of large funds that aren't budgeted to come up with all the funds to rebuild. 🤠👍
Ray’s called their bluff and won. The city has no plans to repair-Let’s be real!
@@sjsharksfan8573 exactly this
Rays have won nothing. St Pete has a process in place. Cities do not just go and do repairs immediately - they have to be accountable to taxpayers. St Pete called the Rays bluff. St Pete has no obligation to stick to the Rays timeline and the Rays cannot talk to another city until the end of the 2028 season.
@ That process is to not pay. Time will tell who is correct.
@ We will see, but to say the Rays have won nothing is inaccurate. Both sides are in the wrong if you ask me. This is like a marriage that has gone bad and too late to salvage. Divorce eminent.
Let's get Trump involved he will fix this mess