Thank you so much for posting this video. I was having this exact same problem when it came to applying the secondary bevel by turning the dial to the 6 o'clock position. Finding this video and learning that I'm not alone is very reassuring. I called Veritas in Canada and they told me that Lee Valley will call me and fix the problem. Thanks again.
Well that's not the solution I was hoping for when I came across this video. I thought I had been doing something wrong all this time. No chance of a return now either. I'm really disappointed in Veritas. I thought the brand was a bit more premium than that, and as this is my first Veritas tool, I will have a hard time trusting them with future purchases. Thanks for taking the time to publish this!
Yeah it is quite disappointing, especially I guess if you have no path of return or exchange. I don’t have many Veritas tool but I will say in their defence the tools I do own have been superb and troublesome free obviously with the exception of this jig. I guess you will have to re adjust to change the degree in order for the secondary bevel if you want it parallel
I'm glad Veritas sorted out the problems you were having with the honing guide. Sharpening tends to be a contentious topic for woodworkers. When I'm asked for the best method, I respond with "whichever method gives you the best results. Pick one and try it." I use the Lie Nielsen honing guide and have never had any problems with it. Unlike the Veritas honing guide, the LN guide clamps chisels and plane irons from the sides, as did the early Eclipse guides. My bench planes get the 25-degree primary bevel using the Tormek, then four passes over the 800 grit water stone to establish a narrow 30-degree secondary bevel, and finally two or three passes over the 10,000 grit water stone for a 35 degree tertiary bevel. I was trained by the late David Charlesworth on this method, and it works well for me.
Yes the LN guide looks amazing and your sentiment in regards to sharpening is identical to mine, what ever works for you indeed. I have a tormek with diamonds but it tends to sit on the bench most of the time as I find my diamond stones are just quicker and easier in general. Also if I’m to be honest with myself I could just use a basic stone as the level of my work probably doesn’t warrant such a refined edge 😅 Iv never explored the tertiary bevel concept. What does it aid? It took me a while to understand the secondary bevel concept as always thought it just made it sharper in some way before being told it’s just to reduce the surface area of the re sharpening grind
@@woodcraft_cz I remember asking David Charlesworth about the third bevel, but I can't remember the answer. However, I do remember the answer made sense, so I continued using it. I think it was a way to extend the sharpening before going back to the Tormek for the 25-degree primary bevel. Touching up a chisel or plane iron on the third bevel required only one or two strokes on the 10,000 grit water stone. When the edge of the third bevel approached the edge of second bevel, four or five strokes at 30 degrees on the 800-grit stone, followed by a couple of passes on the 10,000-grit stone put the chisel or plane back in service. When the second bevel was about twice as wide as it was originally, after about 20 sharpenings, it was back to the Tormek.
Tbink you just had ine if a bad batch. My Veritas guide is spot on and as good as I can sharpen freehand I like the consistency the guide gives every time. Full marks to Veritas for sorting it out👍
Good to hear about the good customer service by Veritas. I have two of these as well and have not experienced this problem. One thing I do know is that even with the wide roller, pressure still matters. It's not a 100% guarantee that you will get a square edge. If you put slightly more pressure to one or the other side, you can still skew it a little (not saying that was the case with you, just that even with a 100% perfect model, squareness is not guaranteed, you need to put pressure evenly).
Yes I did notice the difference but it was very subtle when I deliberately put pressure on in hope to try and counter the skew but yes, still a point to always consider. I’m very happy now with how my jig performs, definitely a grey unit 👌😁
I purchased the set yesterday. I read the manual, and in the micro-bevel section, there is this note: “Note: The section between the primary bevel and the micro-bevel can often be skewed in relation to the edge; however, this is not a concern. While the geometry of the guide is sensitive to even the smallest infl uences, the geometry at the edge of the blade is not nearly as sensitive. The guide will create a square edge, even if the section between primary and micro-bevel appears to be skewed.” Looks like they don’t see this as a defect…it’s a feature.
@@pengel200 now that’s interesting, I’m going to have a look at my manual again to see if it’s printed there and that I overlooked it or if it’s a new section they introduced 🤔 while it’s true it won’t effect the cut it does hugely effect my OCD 😅
@@woodcraft_cz I'd put my money on it being a recent change. They probably did some testing and realized the skew didn't affect the leading edge and decided to turn off the chatter. I'll be interested to hear if it's new, tho.
Welp, I just ordered mine, The MkII Narrow guide kit....Hopefully I get a perfectly made one..... Either way I will say this....For that price I would expect better quality assurance/inspection done by veritas in house....that is supposed to be something any customer should expect with the more premium priced tools. Shame on them for so many making it past inspection and hopefully they found the inspection issue whether that be a lax policy or certain inspectors not doing their jobs....FIRE THEM!!! 😜😜
I hope you get a good one because when it works it really does work great. Very curious to hear about your experience so please come back and tell us how you get on 👌🤞
Probably the best lesson I learned was to strop tools regularly. It’s surprising how long you can keep a blade sharp with regular stropping. A piece of leather mounted on a flat block, MDF works well, and a little polishing compound can maintain a sharp edge for days.
I use a grinder with a coarse wheel for the primary bevel. I grind as close to the edge as I can without grinding to the edge, so the angle and grit have no impact on the edge. By getting, and keeping, the secondary bevel very close to the edge, honing the edge goes very fast. I use the Veritas guide for honing plane irons because edge geometry, sharpening efficiency, and final sharpness are important to me. But now that I only use a guide for the secondary bevel, any decent guide would do. Chisels I hone by hand by hand because geometry is not critical, the edge is short, it takes less time, and chopping dovetails and tenon shoulders dulls my chisel rather quickly.
Iv tried by hand and I’m not the best I know I could practise but at the moment my current learning curves are overwhelming enough 😅 but one day I would like to refine my hand sharpening skills for sure 👌
@@woodcraft_cz I recommend that when you decide to practice dovetails you sharpen your chisels by hand. Chopping dulls edges fairly quickly (maybe less so if you have premium steel - I don't), so in a single shop session you will get lots of feedback on how the edge affects the cut, how your sharpening technique affects the edge, where the cut quality is critical and where it is not critical. Your first learning will be to FREQUENTLY check that your chisel is not dull. Chopping can quickly roll over your edge; the cut will be ugly and the back of your chisel will feel like it has a huge burr - because it does. Set things up so you can move easily between your chopping station and your sharpening station; you'll be bouncing between them every few minutes once you get going. Likely you will soon see how everything works together.
Found this very useful. I'm looking at this jig and for the price I want to have a good experience with it. My expectations are fully set now - thanks. Plus, I would have gone throught the whole process of verifying that it wasn't just me, too. Can I ask why you're in CZ? I'm not 100% but you sound UK'ish? Thanks for the video.
Hey sorry for the late reply, if you haven’t bought one already I’m going to be doing a video comparing 3 known jigs but this will be likely after Xmas because time is limited for me at the moment. I decided to move to the Czech Republic from London to raise my kids.
When you put your blade into the honing guide, with the attached "stop"that clamps onto the front, do you notice that the stop portion can rock back and forth a bit? Mine doesnt sit perfectly 90° when i have it clamped onto the actual honing guide. Ive had zero success with this honing guide
Just for clarification, by stop guide you mean the angle guage? If so then when I affix mine it’s solid, there is no movement but I will now double check
I have similar issues. Sadly I've had absolutely zero luck with the system (both the narrow chisel and the regular guide). The damned thing rounds the whole bevel, every single flippin' thing I put in there. I was better at hand-sharpening my very first time than I've ever gotten with the Veritas. Hell, years ago I made a ridiculous "sorta honing guide" out of a 3" scrap of beefy paint stirrer stick, a grimy old fender washer, bigass bolt from my grandpa's old dairy junk, and 2 skateboard bearings (orphaned fidget spinners). That thing is ugly as hell but boy does it work. I wonder if Lee Valley will take the Veritas back after 2 years...
@@Robodie in the process of speaking to them about it. I've received a new one, even worse than the first lol I'll update if I ever successfully get it sorted. Side clamping honing guide has the same issue.... Not great 😵💫🤦
@@lizardjama9834 hate to say it, but I doubt you will. Lee Valley sent me 3 new side clamping honing guides, and 2 new side clamping heads for the Mk.ii. Each and every one I tested, and used, was equally as bad, or worse than the originals I received. They've gone downhill in their quality of production, and all of the older people who remember the 'old' Lee Valley, still support the brand blindly without any objective thought about what the current state of the company and their tools are. Look on any and all woodworking forums, which in and of themselves are considered "old"formats, and anyone who questions Lee Valley or Veritas quality, is immediately met with disdain.
I think part of the problem is that the micro bevel adjustment only increases the bevel angle by a couple of degrees. For me this isn’t enough difference and it exaggerates any inaccuracies; 5 degrees is preferable.
yeah I believe its 2-3°. 5° is definitely a safe bet. since this video I have acquired a couple more guides which I will be comparing to each other and doing another video on it
Lesson learned, two! If people don't go back to manufactures the manufacturer won't know about the problem. Veritas has a good reputation for problem solving and they Stand behind their products.
Right but I've got tons of stuff to restore and severely damaged my thumb (severed the tendon that makes it do thumb things, haha,) and surgery was not what I'd call successful so mobility / dexterity / grip can be limited.
I can (and do) freehand sharpen tricky blades and knives, but have noticed some very experienced freehand sharpeners take quite some time going back and forward on the front and back of the blade to achieve a really good edge. For me a good honing guide speeds up sharpening: I can get a razor edge with just a few passes using either 3M lapping films on float glass or my Shapton ceramic stones. I also have Tormek which gives great results but for touching up a blade the setup time is too long. The Tormek gets used for regrinding the primary bevel periodically when I do a batch of tools. It’s definitely worth experimenting, but ultimately you should use whatever method that produces quick and repeatable results.
Thank you so much for posting this video. I was having this exact same problem when it came to applying the secondary bevel by turning the dial to the 6 o'clock position. Finding this video and learning that I'm not alone is very reassuring. I called Veritas in Canada and they told me that Lee Valley will call me and fix the problem. Thanks again.
Amazing I’m so glad to hear you’re getting the issue fixed. It’s not a great feeling when things don’t work as expected and you don’t know why
Well that's not the solution I was hoping for when I came across this video. I thought I had been doing something wrong all this time. No chance of a return now either. I'm really disappointed in Veritas. I thought the brand was a bit more premium than that, and as this is my first Veritas tool, I will have a hard time trusting them with future purchases. Thanks for taking the time to publish this!
Yeah it is quite disappointing, especially I guess if you have no path of return or exchange. I don’t have many Veritas tool but I will say in their defence the tools I do own have been superb and troublesome free obviously with the exception of this jig. I guess you will have to re adjust to change the degree in order for the secondary bevel if you want it parallel
I'm glad Veritas sorted out the problems you were having with the honing guide. Sharpening tends to be a contentious topic for woodworkers. When I'm asked for the best method, I respond with "whichever method gives you the best results. Pick one and try it." I use the Lie Nielsen honing guide and have never had any problems with it. Unlike the Veritas honing guide, the LN guide clamps chisels and plane irons from the sides, as did the early Eclipse guides. My bench planes get the 25-degree primary bevel using the Tormek, then four passes over the 800 grit water stone to establish a narrow 30-degree secondary bevel, and finally two or three passes over the 10,000 grit water stone for a 35 degree tertiary bevel. I was trained by the late David Charlesworth on this method, and it works well for me.
Yes the LN guide looks amazing and your sentiment in regards to sharpening is identical to mine, what ever works for you indeed. I have a tormek with diamonds but it tends to sit on the bench most of the time as I find my diamond stones are just quicker and easier in general. Also if I’m to be honest with myself I could just use a basic stone as the level of my work probably doesn’t warrant such a refined edge 😅 Iv never explored the tertiary bevel concept. What does it aid? It took me a while to understand the secondary bevel concept as always thought it just made it sharper in some way before being told it’s just to reduce the surface area of the re sharpening grind
@@woodcraft_cz I remember asking David Charlesworth about the third bevel, but I can't remember the answer. However, I do remember the answer made sense, so I continued using it. I think it was a way to extend the sharpening before going back to the Tormek for the 25-degree primary bevel. Touching up a chisel or plane iron on the third bevel required only one or two strokes on the 10,000 grit water stone. When the edge of the third bevel approached the edge of second bevel, four or five strokes at 30 degrees on the 800-grit stone, followed by a couple of passes on the 10,000-grit stone put the chisel or plane back in service. When the second bevel was about twice as wide as it was originally, after about 20 sharpenings, it was back to the Tormek.
Tbink you just had ine if a bad batch. My Veritas guide is spot on and as good as I can sharpen freehand I like the consistency the guide gives every time. Full marks to Veritas for sorting it out👍
You just explained my problem! I couldn't figure it out and thought it was my fault. Now I know I didn't do anything wrong. Thanks!
Very happy the video was useful for you. Hopefully you get it sorted 🤞
Good to hear about the good customer service by Veritas. I have two of these as well and have not experienced this problem. One thing I do know is that even with the wide roller, pressure still matters. It's not a 100% guarantee that you will get a square edge. If you put slightly more pressure to one or the other side, you can still skew it a little (not saying that was the case with you, just that even with a 100% perfect model, squareness is not guaranteed, you need to put pressure evenly).
Yes I did notice the difference but it was very subtle when I deliberately put pressure on in hope to try and counter the skew but yes, still a point to always consider. I’m very happy now with how my jig performs, definitely a grey unit 👌😁
The best honing guide you can use hands down! Now that I’ve seen your results mine came out crooked secondary bevel as well.🤔
There definitely seems to be an issue in production with these
@ maybe because it doesn’t have a guide to lay the chisel flat against the jig? Only when you’re setting the protrusion.
@ what was the other honing jig you purchased? You showed a box.
@@robertmunguia250 I actually have a new video going over 3 guides, I go over in depth (34min 😅) the chisel remains square I think it was a QC issue
@@robertmunguia250 bridge city, I just released a video on 3 guides
I purchased the set yesterday. I read the manual, and in the micro-bevel section, there is this note: “Note: The section between the primary bevel and the micro-bevel can often be skewed in relation to the edge; however, this is not a concern. While the geometry of the guide is sensitive to even the smallest infl uences, the geometry at the edge of the blade is not nearly as sensitive. The guide will create a square edge, even if the section between primary and micro-bevel appears to be skewed.” Looks like they don’t see this as a defect…it’s a feature.
@@pengel200 now that’s interesting, I’m going to have a look at my manual again to see if it’s printed there and that I overlooked it or if it’s a new section they introduced 🤔 while it’s true it won’t effect the cut it does hugely effect my OCD 😅
@@woodcraft_cz I'd put my money on it being a recent change. They probably did some testing and realized the skew didn't affect the leading edge and decided to turn off the chatter. I'll be interested to hear if it's new, tho.
Welp, I just ordered mine, The MkII Narrow guide kit....Hopefully I get a perfectly made one.....
Either way I will say this....For that price I would expect better quality assurance/inspection done by veritas in house....that is supposed to be something any customer should expect with the more premium priced tools.
Shame on them for so many making it past inspection and hopefully they found the inspection issue whether that be a lax policy or certain inspectors not doing their jobs....FIRE THEM!!! 😜😜
I hope you get a good one because when it works it really does work great. Very curious to hear about your experience so please come back and tell us how you get on 👌🤞
Probably the best lesson I learned was to strop tools regularly. It’s surprising how long you can keep a blade sharp with regular stropping. A piece of leather mounted on a flat block, MDF works well, and a little polishing compound can maintain a sharp edge for days.
This is great advice, prevention rather then cure I guess, keeping that edge for as long as possible is the best bet I guess.
I use a grinder with a coarse wheel for the primary bevel. I grind as close to the edge as I can without grinding to the edge, so the angle and grit have no impact on the edge. By getting, and keeping, the secondary bevel very close to the edge, honing the edge goes very fast. I use the Veritas guide for honing plane irons because edge geometry, sharpening efficiency, and final sharpness are important to me. But now that I only use a guide for the secondary bevel, any decent guide would do. Chisels I hone by hand by hand because geometry is not critical, the edge is short, it takes less time, and chopping dovetails and tenon shoulders dulls my chisel rather quickly.
Iv tried by hand and I’m not the best I know I could practise but at the moment my current learning curves are overwhelming enough 😅 but one day I would like to refine my hand sharpening skills for sure 👌
@@woodcraft_cz I recommend that when you decide to practice dovetails you sharpen your chisels by hand. Chopping dulls edges fairly quickly (maybe less so if you have premium steel - I don't), so in a single shop session you will get lots of feedback on how the edge affects the cut, how your sharpening technique affects the edge, where the cut quality is critical and where it is not critical. Your first learning will be to FREQUENTLY check that your chisel is not dull. Chopping can quickly roll over your edge; the cut will be ugly and the back of your chisel will feel like it has a huge burr - because it does. Set things up so you can move easily between your chopping station and your sharpening station; you'll be bouncing between them every few minutes once you get going. Likely you will soon see how everything works together.
Found this very useful. I'm looking at this jig and for the price I want to have a good experience with it. My expectations are fully set now - thanks. Plus, I would have gone throught the whole process of verifying that it wasn't just me, too. Can I ask why you're in CZ? I'm not 100% but you sound UK'ish? Thanks for the video.
Hey sorry for the late reply, if you haven’t bought one already I’m going to be doing a video comparing 3 known jigs but this will be likely after Xmas because time is limited for me at the moment. I decided to move to the Czech Republic from London to raise my kids.
When you put your blade into the honing guide, with the attached "stop"that clamps onto the front, do you notice that the stop portion can rock back and forth a bit? Mine doesnt sit perfectly 90° when i have it clamped onto the actual honing guide. Ive had zero success with this honing guide
Just for clarification, by stop guide you mean the angle guage? If so then when I affix mine it’s solid, there is no movement but I will now double check
I have similar issues. Sadly I've had absolutely zero luck with the system (both the narrow chisel and the regular guide). The damned thing rounds the whole bevel, every single flippin' thing I put in there.
I was better at hand-sharpening my very first time than I've ever gotten with the Veritas.
Hell, years ago I made a ridiculous "sorta honing guide" out of a 3" scrap of beefy paint stirrer stick, a grimy old fender washer, bigass bolt from my grandpa's old dairy junk, and 2 skateboard bearings (orphaned fidget spinners). That thing is ugly as hell but boy does it work.
I wonder if Lee Valley will take the Veritas back after 2 years...
@@Robodie in the process of speaking to them about it. I've received a new one, even worse than the first lol I'll update if I ever successfully get it sorted. Side clamping honing guide has the same issue.... Not great 😵💫🤦
I’m having alignment issues as well. Bought a mini machinist square to hopefully get it figured out tonight.
@@lizardjama9834 hate to say it, but I doubt you will. Lee Valley sent me 3 new side clamping honing guides, and 2 new side clamping heads for the Mk.ii. Each and every one I tested, and used, was equally as bad, or worse than the originals I received. They've gone downhill in their quality of production, and all of the older people who remember the 'old' Lee Valley, still support the brand blindly without any objective thought about what the current state of the company and their tools are. Look on any and all woodworking forums, which in and of themselves are considered "old"formats, and anyone who questions Lee Valley or Veritas quality, is immediately met with disdain.
I think part of the problem is that the micro bevel adjustment only increases the bevel angle by a couple of degrees. For me this isn’t enough difference and it exaggerates any inaccuracies; 5 degrees is preferable.
yeah I believe its 2-3°. 5° is definitely a safe bet. since this video I have acquired a couple more guides which I will be comparing to each other and doing another video on it
Lesson learned, two! If people don't go back to manufactures the manufacturer won't know about the problem. Veritas has a good reputation for problem solving and they Stand behind their products.
Good lord just freehand it. It’s not rocket science
Right but I've got tons of stuff to restore and severely damaged my thumb (severed the tendon that makes it do thumb things, haha,) and surgery was not what I'd call successful so mobility / dexterity / grip can be limited.
Oh really? I thought I needed to go study for 5 years before I could sharpen freehand, thankyou, you’ve just saved me so much time and tuition fees 🙏
I can (and do) freehand sharpen tricky blades and knives, but have noticed some very experienced freehand sharpeners take quite some time going back and forward on the front and back of the blade to achieve a really good edge. For me a good honing guide speeds up sharpening: I can get a razor edge with just a few passes using either 3M lapping films on float glass or my Shapton ceramic stones. I also have Tormek which gives great results but for touching up a blade the setup time is too long. The Tormek gets used for regrinding the primary bevel periodically when I do a batch of tools.
It’s definitely worth experimenting, but ultimately you should use whatever method that produces quick and repeatable results.
ONLY LIE NIELSEN 😮