Shooting .38 Special 158 grain cast swc with 2.0 grains of Unique - HD
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มี.ค. 2014
- **PLEASE USE EXTREME CAUTION IF YOU ATTEMT TO EXPERIMENT WITH THIS LOAD... IF THE BULLET DOESN'T EXIT THE WEAPON AND A FOLLOW UP SHOT IS FIRED THE RESULT COULD BE POTENTIALLY FATAL**
In this video I experiment with some VERY light loads in the .38 special that I read about on a forum. Turns out they shot well. Even though this project was fun, I wouldn't reccomend using this recipe on a regular basis. I will go back to my normal load. These don't have any stopping power in my opinion... Please research your own load data! Enjoy! :)
Thank you for taking the time to produce this video
Great comparison info.
Thank you.
New subscriber and new to reloading so far all i have are the lee classic loaders and honestly have yet to load a round but am out there looking and reading. I must say THANK YOU for your videos your time sharing your knowledge but most of all THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE
for plinking, this load sounds great.
Thanks for loading.
thank you.
My grandpa shot competition .38 for 30+ years mainly bullseye shooting with wad cutter. As a kid reloading with him he would always load 2 gr of bullseye. He Won many competitions. Good video my friend.
5.5gns allegedly yields 805fps from my Astra dbl-action Colt .45 caliber revolver. But it appears to be something of a tack-driver for me too(and with Berry's Perfect Plated bullets or lead).
That's awesome! You can actually see the bullets! In going to keep this video in mind when my kids get ready to move up to hand guns
Sweet! Please use extreme caution! This video was an experiment! Thank you for the support you give my channel!
Thank you, I've been reluctant to load lite. I'll give it a try.
Subscribed just because of Edward Swanzey's comment. I love your down to earth real people way of making videos.
I found this interesting. Thanks.
Very interesting video I really enjoy your reloading videos
Thanks!
Love the sound of the bullets when they hit a rock bhind kool video
It's cool!
The load is great, you’re pulling the trigger.
Back in the day I reloaded, I used Browning brass, CCI 550 primers, Keith 150gr SWC, full roll crimp, and 3.5gr of Unique in my S & W Mod. 15...in my use, very good performance at the range...
Enjoyed your video, keep up the good work
I run 2.2 grains of Bullseye and it 158 grain semi wadcutter and do pretty good 6 inch barrel Ruger and a 4.25 in Ruger GP100 had no problems I shoot a lot of paper and I was talking to one of the gentleman that uses like 2 grains I can't remember what powdery told me but when I told him was that enough powder he says I'm only shooting paper what else do I need and that was the words of wisdom that I continue to carry on you don't need much to shoot paper
Good vid. I have had bullets stop in the barrel, thankfully I checked before continuing to shoot.
More videos of you shooting Jiujitsu! We've seen lots of reloading, now I want to see you blast some stuff!! I loved it!
Coming soon! Thank you for the support! Good day!
well you got your moneys worth out of that paper. Used every square inch of it!
I use 2.2 gr. of bullseye all day long. Very accurate load.
I don't know how I didn't see this vid til now. Good stuff brother! Miss these firearms vids!
+Chris M. Thank you for stopping by!
excellent sir !!!!!!!
Hey @Jiujitsu2000! Where do you live? Down in Arizona by chance? I have a 686-4, 4" S&W with Hogue grips and it looks exactly like your's! Is your's a -4 as well? Anyway, looks like you're in AZ and if so, I'll be down there in a few weeks for Bike Week and plan to go to Ben Avery Gun Range to shoot up 200 38's I'm making right now... my very first batch of 38's I've ever made using Bullseye and Berry's plated 125 and 158 gr bullets. If you're down in AZ I'd like to meet you!
Good video
Blessings from Arizona!
I've actually loaded a 280 grain cast bullet (Lyman 358009) over 1 grain of Bullseye in a .38 Special case and fired it in my H&R single shot rifle, indoors. It was very quiet but penetrated a 1 inch pine board.
What about a hard or soft case 200gr. Semi Wadcutter with the 2 grain load? It would be slow, heavy, and pretty accurate. It would be a small flying sledgehammer.
watching the bullet fly in pretty cool
A little late to the discussion but your blog intrigued me so did some testing of my own! With the 158gr. LSWC and varying amounts of Winchester 244 powder ( about the same maybe a little faster burn rate than Unique) and a roll crimp from lite/med/heavy I did find a nice accurate plinking combination load for my .38 special rounds in my colt 4.25" 1:14 twist barrel. I did find that 2.0 gr. of W244 was a bite lite ( bullet would exit the barrel) but not accurate enough for me. The closer I got to 3.0 gr. of 244 the better everything performed and a dream lite recoil. At the lower powder content brass cases were dirty, cylinder and barrel were dirty and the overall function of the weapon was poor because of the dirty condition. Hodgdon powder, states 3.6 gr. is the recommended starting point, as always do your own ladder test loads do not take someone else's word. Side note, I did try a few cylinders of the lower powder volume using CCl 550 (mag.) primers because I was concerned of getting squibs, just to see the difference but no real noticeable difference, both standard and mag. primers did the job.
Great video brother!!
Thank you!
Stay safe. God bless.
That fly ain't scared!
Parabéns pela explicação !!! (Brazil)
Nice video. My favorite is the Red Dot load, 3.0 gr. with either a 125gr. SWC, 130gr. RNFP or a 148gr. BBWC, all cast. Light recoiling, quiet, very cheap depending on bullet and a whole lot of fun from my S&W 642 or 3" GP100. The best I've ever done with the GP100 is 2" at 15 yards, great for chasing beer cans but will hold descent groups. With the 38S, 158's your looking at 750fps. 357 cases with 110gr. or 125's work well with that load too. IMHO going to heavier lead in the 357 you should step up to 3.5gr. of Red Dot.
Regarding the three fliers in the first group, I wonder if the orientation of the tiny amount of the powder charge of Unique in the cartridge case might not be getting consistent ignition. Perhaps if you pointed the revolver vertically and then lowered it slowly before each shot, the powder would have a more consistent ignition. .... Several decades ago I read quite a few articles about using tufts of kapok with "squib" loads to keep the powder near the flash hole at the base of the case for more consistent ignition.
try bringing that load 0 .1 grain at a time till you get real accuracy with YOUR pistol, it will be a very fun plinking load (3.3 of unique worked best in my old 3" USN Victory Model)
Nice information. I recently loaded a similar cartridge. It was for an older 38 S & W. It was called the bankers special in the day. Came off the line at Ivers Johnson Bicycle and firearms company in Fitchburg, Mass. This weapon was made for Black Powder. In my research, I found that I could use smokeless powder, but have to keep velocity less than 600fps.
I loaded 2.9g of Unique with a 150g LSWC. This gives me about 553fps. Shot a few of them at the ranged and the performed well. grouping with this little pocket piece at 3-4 inches at 7 meters. (note: the recoil with that little topbreak is a bear, the trigger guard hits my knuckle on every round).
Thats cool! Thank you for sharing!
For my Cowboy loads, I shoot 148gr LRNFP over 2.8gr CLAYS, and 158gr LSWC over 3.2 gr Clays. Soft shooting and accurate.
With clays seemingly discontinued, what would you substitute instead?
You should make more reloading videos during this lockdown
Wich mold do you recoment for casting this 158 swc , nice video
Do you have to use a trickler with Unique? I've been told it doesn't meter well(perhaps it's flake design) though I've used it heavily in my .44-40 and never had a hitch(?).
never had an issue with Unique in a Dillon 550 or 650....(all fell within a 10th of a grain)
I found this while looking for subsonic 357 loads. I think that something like a 200 grain flat point soft lead bullet loaded to subsonic velocities in a carbine would be ideal for a .357 lever action home defense load as is should provide good discouraging power without deafening muzzle blast but there isn't a lot of data out there.
I have 50rds of HDY 158gn LRNs charged with a Richard Lee .5cc dipper of Hodgdon HS-6. Such a teenee bit of powder but the load table says that's around the starting minimum load and is supposed to net you 900+fps. Can't wait to break those out at the range soon! HS-6 seems to have a high velocity reputation for .38Spl and .357. Also might prove to be a good powder for my Rossi .44-40(?).
You stated at the end of the video that you might try 2.5 or 3 grains. Did you ever do so?
from my experience when you hit to the bottom left it generally means you're pulling your shots not holding your pistol properly. but then again I have had some strange loads that like to hit bottom left too.
RC flight Seeker That's quite possible. thank you! I'll check into that. Have a beautiful day!
I'm wondering on that failure to fire if the primer went off however with the such low charge, it didn't ignite it. Did you remove the bullet and check the charge/primer?
The primers I used in this test were old and It was a bad one when I pulled it later at home.
what distance were you shooting from? Off hand or bench?
The Red Dot powder looked to have deeper penetration. Great video!
Also side note, don't know if you noticed but the bullets are moving so slow you can actually see them on camera flying towards the target.
True! Crazy!
yea, my 1958 Daisy Red Rider still shoots at 400 + fps. But both are fun.
j stark I love my daughters Red Rider! Its super fun! :-)
Too see a projectile has very little say about velocity if any.
Great & solid video thanks. I'm getting ready to start reloading .38 spl & will be using Titegroup. I've been loading TG for my .44s both Henry rifle & S&W 629-6". Started with 4.3 grains of TG which shot good in both .44s & for my last reloads went to 8 grains of TG for the magnums. My .44s currently are shooting 240 grain LSWC epoxy coated bullets.
the third shot with your light load looks like it went through the target sideways. I reload 303 british with very light loads but with corn meal compressed on top of the powder - this also produces the most accurate rounds for my 44 mag. My biggest concern is that the corn meal might be causing an increase in barrel wear (erosion).
Try cream of wheat. I’ve read about people using CoW to fireform rifle brass without using boolits
My target load for 38 special is 158 gr bullet with 3 grs of bullseye powder.
As you shoot try "indexing" the cylinder so that groups are always based on chamber within the cylinder.
I like this guy, he's like old School, like me ( : Printing paper for targets?, I have done that a lot, (:
You can actually see the bullet as it strikes the target.
That is some seriously familiar looking terrain... Bighorn Basin? Interesting experiment, those rounds are flying so slow the camera picked them up in the last frame before impact. I'm gonna run some .38 Special with Hornady 148gr HBWC at about 3 or a hair over grains of Unique and see how they do.
Sweet!
Off topic for this vid, but do you cast for 308? If so what kinda of speed are you pushing them to? Gas checks (ofcourse) ?
"lead is the world of 2000 FPS." and fast burning powder. Hard cast #2 or straight Lino. 180 gr. Lyman #311467,w/14.5 gr. Unique will give ya bout 1700 +- fps. Bout the best can do. With G/C.
My best light load is 2.7 grains of bullseye Hornady 148 grain hbwc in 38 special or 3.0 gr. Titegroup in a 357 mag case, same bullet. But always check your load book, don't go by what ive used, good test, thanks!
Apparently Hodgdons clays can be used to I believe on the container it says 2.5 grains for 38 special????? Idk 🤷♂️ I might try it out why not it would be a great round for my girlfriend. She enjoys the 38 because the recoil is minimal. And to be honest if she is having fun then it’s worth it to me. I like it when she comes along with me to the range.
This was really interesting. I' like to see more of the 38 on the low end. How about a lighter bullet? Are you shooting lubed or unlubed? Thanks JJ. Another winner.
ever thought about getting a cheap metal detector to help retrieve the lead? im new to your channel, found it while gathering info on reloading. very informative videos.
Thank you! I've not done that because the lead is usually close and easy to find. Great idea though!
fyi,I load my .38 snubby with 158 grn SWC over 3.0 grains of Dupont 700X.
It's about 700 fps & accurate.
To check if it’s your sights or your finger, switch shooting hands and see where the rounds land.
Working on some 125g lead with some HP38 for the wife. Starting at 3.8 g and working down 3.4 for the 1st batch.
I shoot cowboy competion and we generally use 2.5 to 3 grains in a lot of different powders and they hit hard enough to ring steel.
Office trashcan full of water test next. I know when shooting fiochi 9mm 158 grain the round goose all the way through it like nothing. But standard 115 grain ammo easily gets stopped by it
Dem boolits waz tumbling!
5 years later, but I liked this video the first time...heheh...next time, with your reduced loads, try CCI 550 small pistol primers and see what results you get. Watching this again in 2021...for reduced loads, use a lighter bullet. Try the 121gr truncated cone sized to .357 and see how those perform.
Looks like some of them were keyholing. I would try 700x powder. Its faster burning so you can still get light loads with minimul powder but enough velocity to stabilize.
+jacob goldstein Ditto. Its a great powder for very light loads. I think it has a lot of volume to it.
Tough to get Unique to meter well at charges that low a drum type powder measure.
Sometimes it's good to go back and reexamine high school culls finding those now worth your shot . Thanks All , Thanks be
my only concern is detonation, from what I've been told, some think it's caused from too little of powder, i really don't know.
Much depends on bh hardness of the cast bullets
jiujitsu,
You may well already know this but I'll post it up for new reloader's who may not.
First I'll say I'm no reloading expert, all I can give is advice from my years of reloading, what I have read and learned. So those new to reloading, take what I say with a grain of salt, do your own research and be careful! The fun and money savings from reloading disappears when things go bad!
Be careful of going below recommended powder loads, with some calibers, depending on the amount of space inside the case after the bullet is seated, you could end up with powder laying below the primer flash hole (when the round is laying on it's side like it will in a firearm). When the primer ignites the flash can "flash over" the top of the lite powder load, instead of a fuller charged case where the primer is igniting powder from the rear of the case and then burning forward toward the bullet, it can "flash over" and detonate. Instead of a slower controlled burn from the rear forward it could ignite all at once creating much higher pressure and even exceed maximum pressure, BOOM! I've read this is more a problem with faster burning powders, but I have never read in any reloading manual where it's OK to go below recommended charges while using powder slower then X so I apply cation with ANY powder.
I have gone below recommended charges (in straight walled pistol calibers only) but never for a semi-auto for a couple of reasons, one is I don't want the slide to cycle, have a bullet still in the bore and pull the trigger on the next round. Yeah you can do it with a revolver too, this is just my personal rule, (another grain of salt inserted here). Anytime I load below recommended I use a filler over the powder load to hold the powder against the flash hole. I've read of people using things like corn meal, even oatmeal, myself I use a little cotton, rayon (which is plant fiber) or polyester batting. More the latter because my dogs love to tear the stuffed toys the grand kid's hand down to them so there is always an ample supply of batting under the couch. It doesn't take much, you don't have to pack it tight, rip a small chunk off and push it in the case with a pencil (eraser end). I have never had any residue left in the barrel from the melted/burned batting but it's a good idea to check, I'm not using much and I suspect it's being completely burned. If you find any solvent & brush will clean it out just like the wadding residue in a shotgun barrel, it may be a sign your using too much.
I've also found a heavy crimp helps the burn and gains accuracy in these lite loads. Do your research for terms like "light load detonation" you'll find things to read out there, here's one from a quick search. reloadammo.com/liteload.htm
Have fun, be safe!
Excellent comment! Thank you for sharing!!
jiujitsu,
I was hoping my comments would be taken positively, I didn't want to come across as a know it all or step on any toes.
I was very impressed that you saw some folks where you where shooting that weren't being safe and you took the time to talk to them. That speaks volumes to me, so many would just leave and not say anything, you did the right thing, job well done. Before my health took a turn I use to shoot Bullseye pistol matches and sometimes took my turn at being the range safety officer. It's not pleasant to have to tell a fellow shooter who you've known for years and stood next to on the firing line that they have done something unsafe, but it's so important for them and all the shooters around them. I never held my tongue, I would be firm on safety and the rules but always kept in mind it's not so much what you say as it is how you say it, thankfully there were never any hard feelings.
One last thing, I want to Thank You for your service Sir! Have a great day!
+Benellinut A Wow! There's no ego here. you sound like my kind of shooter. you sound humble. I'd like to think of myself as a humble person. for me it would be near impossible to take your comments negativity. Your approach was very respectful. I'm here to teach as well as learn no matter what the experience level of the individuals are. if I see or hear something that can help me or my subscribers I'm all for it! I'm very happy you stopped in and shared your wisdom. it's an honor! serving my country was on of the happiest things I've done in my life so far and I'd go back in a heartbeat if needed. thank you again for stopping by! I really enjoyed it! have a beautiful day! :-)
I will keep your advice in mind as i continue to reload and shoot.
@@jiujitsu2000 and @Benellinut - You both come off as humble and respectful, with knowledge gained from experience and without ego. My kind of shooters, my kind of men!
i wonder what velocity red dot gets or promo that has the same burn rate. 28000 rounds powder load with your own cast lead. if you find ways to get free lead to smelt, you prolly spend 4-5 cents a round. primer costing the most 2 cents. and the energy to prepare the lead next.
I have used 2.0 grs of BULLSEYE for .38 Wadcutters for decades, but never that small of a charge of Unique. I am guessing the consistency would be poor. That usually results in poor accuracy. Change powders or up the charge.
I wish you would have put them through a chronograph. That would have provided some valuable information. Thanks for the video though. It was still interesting and informative.
Eugene Deckard maybe I'll redo it this year and if so I'll do that!
I got a chronograph from amazon for around $70. Cheapest one I could find in a store is $130. FYI. It seems to be working fine so far. Thanks again!
Eugene Deckard thank you, I have one. just need to get out out of storage. :-)
3gr. of Red Dot with a 38 Special cast 158gr. bullet will give you 750fps. I like the 125's and 130's with that load.
Thank you, know what you mean.
I'm all for experimenting. But stay with the established load data! If you want to go higher or lower , change calibers.
+jiujitsu2000 I'd lube those bullets anyway! And the way to compensate for a very low powder load is to use a VERY strong crimp, that reduces the size of your groups. Regards
+Lazarus0357 I agree 100%. Thank you!
My Speer Manual (10) recommends from 4.3 to 4.7 of Unique for .38 Spl 158 grains SWC, loading so "soft" you risk wider groups! Regards
Normally I use 4.6 of unique, but this video was an experimental load. Very cautious!
Not an optimal load but I do see a use if you wanted to introduce a younger person to shooting or if they maybe were extremely recoil sensitive. Great video.
Thank you!
How well do you think this load might do from a carbine?
I'm not sure. personally, I'd go hotter.
+jiujitsu2000 Right now Iv'e been using 5.6 gr. of Power Pistol just for plinking. Powder can be hard to get here in So. Cal.
+Douglas McNeil Sounds like a decent load. How does it shoot?
stick in bore, would be my guess....
WIth 4.7 gr of Unique being a max load per Alliant (not to be confused with a 'recommendation'), does anyone have chrono data for 2.0 gr of powder? 600 fps maybe?
Nice video. If the man wants to save on powder why not use a full wadcutter and seat deeper. also for pete's sake at least tumble lube or powder coat and size to cylinder throat. I cant imagine that any cost savings in powder are worth scrubbing lead out of the barrel for an hour. I mean I can fully understand the pea shooter charge, but not lubing is blasphemy!lol
This talk about stopping power seems a bit exaggerated and most often comes from people who have never shot at another human being. You will never need to fire that 158 grain SWC at somebody threatening you at 25 yards. At 10 yards or less, one of those bullets will stop 999 out of 1000 people regardless of where you hit and make them think again. If by stopping power you mean killing power, well, compare to hunting. A 358 Winchester will kill like a 375 H&H at 50 yards, if not as spectacularly. Also, you are much more likely to hit with gentler load. So a 158 SWC 38 Special is an excellent deterrent (because the bad guy doesn't know you don't have a .357 Mag load in there) and as you are more likely to be able to hit where you aim with it, it will stop and kill quite satisfactorily. And remember - if the bad guy has a .50 S&W, as long as you dodge his or her first shot, you can empty your barrel of six shots before he/she gets the gun down to bear at you again.
You might try at a large distance to target and see if the bullets do keyholing with 2 grains.
Thats a great idea! Thanks for sharing!
Why not shoot some steel so you can here it ?
looked like those light loads tumbled
Some of the first rounds look like they are key holing.
I think I'll work up a reduced load for my XD40, that way my neighbors will be less likely to complain when I shoot in my back yard. Full power loads are doing great with my epoxy coating. Always a pleasure watching your vids.
Thank you! Please be careful!
.40 S&W with 155 RNFP gr bullets over 3.8 gr of 231 is good for about 840 fps...(quite .38 Special -like, and very gentle; 170-180 gr bullets even more so with a few 10ths lower charges)
Potential fatal. Anyways, I would be more worried about a spike in pressure because of the powder ignition. That is what happened to one of my revolvers with a light load. The powder ignites all at once and causes a pressure spike. With my revolver the barrel flew off. However, that was Win 231 I believe. So, Unique may be different.
the infamous 'detonation' has never been discussed with Unique, certainly not in a 38 SPecial case......
Those didn't look like they were flying.. and 2 or 3 of them obviously keyhole. I would love to clock those to see just how slow they are going. I would guess maybe 500 fps.. , and in any case too slow. It's good to save money on reloading components, especially these days when ammo is terribly expensive. However, the bullets need to fly. I wouldn't go any lower than 3-3.5 grains of Unique, and lube the bullets. Again, price is important, but were talking about the difference between 5-6 cents a round, if you're casting your own bullets. Couple of pennies takes a long time to add up, compared to reliable, accurate, and most of all, functional ammunition.
I've watched alot of these videos, and you have much good stuff out here. And..this is interesting too. Thanks!
Great video... I thought they wouldn’t leave the barrel
thank you that's exactly what I was thinking too
I would not let my grandkids shoot that load. I would be afraid of squibs. OTOH, I would not have a problem with 4 grains.
we really need velocities to make a useful comparison.
I load my 38. special rounds at a +P level most of the time. I shoot them out of a 357. so it not a problem for my gun.
Would like to see a lighter cast bullet, say 110 to 125 with the same charge.
Sheesh! My loads for wadcutters use like 3.7 of Bullseye which is a hotter powder. Stay safe.
I use around 4 grains of unique. this was an experimental load. always safe. thank you for the kind words and support that you give my channel! have a beautiful day thanks for stopping by!!
i think this loading would be capable of killing a man if shot placement was good. i.e. the head, heart, or lungs. i believe as long as a bullet is in flight it would be capable of killing. that being said good vid bro. i also load my 38s at 4gr of unique with 150 gr swc. it would be a good defensive load if you planned on making several follow up shots.
It would be a good warning shot to a non lethal part of the body. I agree that it could kill to. Gotta take extreme caution! :-)
alliant recomends that unique at minimum needs at least 15k psi to run effectively without unburned powder spitting out of you guns.
Exactly!
I used 4.5 grains of unique under a 125 gr fmj in a 38 special case and was getting squibs. Sounded like a cap gun. I was using a gp100 4" barrel. Anyone know?
+John14SixBushcraft I would doubt you actually had 4.5 grains in every case. That's a pretty stout load & wouldn't make squibs unless you powder was fouled with lube or something. More likely you had almost no power in some of your cases.
+Popgunner101 no believe me I had 4.5 grains in the 3 I shot. maybe they weren't seated tightly enough idk.
+John14SixBushcraft Did you solve the issue John? Sounds as if the crimp was too loose. Did you check proper COAL ? I shoot that load ALL the time and find it shoots awesome out of my SP101 and my 77/357 rifle. That's a decent amount of Unique in the .38 case. Should be at a factory .38 level. Check for a good rolled crimp. You got me wondering, but that'd be my guess. Weak crimp would do that, and also would pull bullets under recoil, making it even worse, as you cant build the case pressure long enough...
I also shoot that load on a regular basis friend. I have not had a single round fail to fire and i have been though 3 bottles of powder since i started. My guess would be something off with the primers. I keep tons of silica packs in my storage tub where i keep my powder and primers for this reason, I fear moisture. Stay safe man.
...right around the 16:09 mark or so you can see the final round as it impacts the paper
Check out Hodgon Trail boss... Powder! ...
+Corey Carpenter I love it!!