Are FBOs Out To Get Us InTheHangar Ep 63
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- As General Aviation pilots, sometimes it seems FBO's are out to get us. And if we're flying small GA planes into the metro FBO's, are they happy or sad to see us pull in? Christy Wong (@PilotChristy) and Dan Millican (@SFilmsTakingOff) talk to MillionAir Dallas Jeff Zimmerman about how FBO's perceive the GA community and helps us understand why they do what they do.
More info on MillionAir Dallas (at ADS), visit: millionairdallas.com/
I would say that I have always felt appreciated at every FBO I have parked. Usually I'm being offered more than I expected. Pleasant staff, great experience. Many times I have gotten discounts that I didn't even ask or know about.
Million Air FBO at KRME treated me very good. Really good service!
This was fun to watch
Having this perspective gives us all insights that we may not have previously had. Thank you!
I love this videos.
Love your videos. It has helped me a lot. I am starting out late in life (57) to get my PPL although I have wanted to ever since I was l old enough to look up the word Airplane in the encyclopedia and look at the pictures, dreaming of flying. You guys make it fun and yet help us with so much! Thanks!!!
I appreciate Jeff coming on to talk about the business side of FBO’s. They obviously cater to the
G5 but the way they treat small GA is awesome. Give them some credit for treating us well in most cases.
Unfortunately not all FBO's have the same attitude. I have been to a few where size matters. One in particular was SAC Jet Center at Mather in Sacramento. Huge ramp not busy, but they thought it was necessary to park us on the south 40 during our midday fuel stop. 100° in the shade and 1/4 mile walk across a huge empty ramp to the airplane. When asked what it would take to park closer for our midday refueling, the answer was "buy a jet". We had already spent $2000.00 with them while there. The next time we fueled up it was a different story, because we moved to McClellan Jet Services at McClellan on the north side. McClellan Jet was service with a smile, and amenities that matched or exceeded the other.
Wow.
You ahould see what sacramento county charges the fbo. Its a joke.
Kudos to Jeff! MillionAir Dallas obviously gets it. I loved hearing his honest opinions from the FBO side. At the end of the day it’s a business and they have to earn money to stay in business. Great discussion. I’ll buy as much fuel as possible from them next time I visit.
BTW- Millionaire Dallas customer service staff is the best you’ll find anywhere.
Great informative show - And no lame jokes either.
My home base airport (KAPS) is known for their friendly service great eating places nearby. It's now run by the port commission instead of local parish government and is growing, we even have a courtesy car now. I've been to many different airports with varying FBO' s. Good and bad experience too. We have Millionaire at several nearby airports, and Signature also. All have been great. My worse was years ago in Destin, Florida where they catered more to private jets of the rich and famous and weren't friendly to us 172/182 drivers until they got competition on the field. Once the competition opened I stayed with them because we were treated better. The old one wants our business but it's too late. We are usually used as a fuel stop instead of going into New Orleans International or Lakefront because of cheap fuel and other amenities to the corporate drivers. Thanks for this video.
The C172 I rent in Farmington, NM (KFMN) is STC'd for mogas because fuel prices are high. The owner does all of the refueling, hauls 5 gallon gas cans to town as needed, etc. But he saves a lot on fuel cost. Considering that there is no self serve and the location is somewhat remote (from a source of fuel), maybe 100LL full service is not that high at $5.86/gal but it sure seems high. The only time I've been in Atlantic Aviations building is when I pick up or drop off people traveling on our corporate jet(s). Atlantic caters to our jet traffic pretty well. They let us store cars in their parking lot and manage the keys for us.
Contrast that with Gateway Flight Center at Calhoun County (Port Lavaca, TX), KPKV, self serve 100LL is $4.75/gal and $5.05/gal for full service. (Prices from ForeFlight). Amenities wise I don't think there's much difference. KPKV's staff is friendlier but that is probably cultural. KPKV is a full maintenance shop
After all that rambling- We need our FBO's so a little support here and there doesn't hurt. I completely get your "self esteem issues comment lol.
I find that it is so "site" specific and even time of day specific on how well you are received and treated as a GA pilot. Even across the same brand of FBO, specifically the Big 2, that it is hard to generalize and say one is better than the other or you get treated better. I flew into the same Million Air you guys are discussing and was treated better in my personal 182 than our corporate King Air, but the situation and time of day was different. I think overall they are doing what they can to maintain a business and an acceptable level of profitability....I can accept that.
I wish FBOs would make their fees clearly published, because some places will change fees based on the season, and I'll always email to ask so that I have a record of what they claimed the fees were. I had to pay like $50 for a 5 minute passenger drop off once.
Very interesting topic (for me at least), and I’m glad you chose to cover it. I have to agree with Mike Golf’s constructive critique; I would have like to hear more from the subject matter expert. Again, nothing personal, great topic! Thanks for sharing!
General Liability, Ramp Coverage, Lots of insurance cost and fuel expenses is not cheap.
Been to the Million Air in Tallahassee in my 182, everyone was super nice, pretty ladies working inside, first class FBO.
People have to remember that the FBOs provide you with the amenities mentioned plus, at larger airports, no cost van rides, flight planning computers, and bathrooms. It costs money to have electricity for lights and heat, and equipment upkeep. Having a staff there 18 to 24 hours is expensive, too. Yes, there some that really gouge you, not just with fees, but fuel prices, too. In defense of some FBOs ( I have been a line guy), some pilots, usually corporate ones, complain about things like the cost of potable water or lav services, but they do not realize that water and sewer and equipment upkeep are not free......and the insurance applies everytime you touch someone’s aircraft. It is too bad that a few FBOs are giving the system a bad name, but we as pilots need to realize that aviation is not a cheap endeavor, so we must accept that everything related to it is going to be expensive to some level. And, yes, Ido believe that a very few FBOs would prefer to not deal with the little guy, but like I reminded many people, the guy flying the small piston just might be the chief pilot or CEO with a G5 and their impression of the service could dictate weather they decide to come back with the G5 and buy 2000 gallons of jet fuel and other services.
I personally prefer to fuel myself paying at the pump just like I do with a car and tying down in a general parking area. I really don’t get this FBO thing.
Generally speaking, it comes down to you get what you pay for. They aren't out to get us but they are out to make money. Luckily there is a place for all of us.
If we don’t “give the FBO’s our money then they won’t survive”. That’s not really true. If an FBO went out the non-profits would come in and take care of the gap. Most FBOs have become just money generating conglomerate trying to pick the flesh off the GA fleet and get what they can off the airlines, commercial operations. The Local FBO here in VT is provided with the facilities including hangers fuel facilities etc at State expense. The FBO gets rent on the hangers, tie down fees, profits from fuel sales, landing fees. They don’t do maintenance for aircraft or the runway, that’s either the airport manager (State Employee) or the local A&P IA shops. If the State just hired low level employees to work at the facility there essentially would be a large decrease in costs and fees the airport would have to charge because profit is no longer a motivating factor. In the earlier days an airport would open for community needs and be funded by the municipality or State to bring in the supported business and transportation services. The maintenance facilities would accompany the new airport as the traffic and maintenance requirements needs grew. I just don’t see the need for another layer of profit from GA. The airlines really take care of their own needs and don’t require any of it. Go non-profit and you’ll see a more robust GA community. Just my opinion.
When our toys (aircraft, motor vehicle, watercraft) stop at a high end airport, hotel or marina we get nailed. We need WALMART FBOs, parking garages and marinas.
Some of us don't buy gas cuz you don't sell the gas we need:
A lot of aircraft are certificated for MoGas and rare is the FBO that sells it. Talk about self-esteem issues ....
Gwen Walcott kbnw mogas $4.20
@Mike Golf yeah, Rotax only grudgingly approves of E-10 ... warns users against trying E-15; but discourages use of E-10. What they WANT you to use is E-0 --- but the number of places that sell that is very rare --- usually sites frequented by boats (since ethanol is hygroscopic --- and why the FAA doesn't like it) or by race car venues. In the ABQ metro, we have only -1- gas station that sells E0 even tho the local GA airport has double digit Rotax users --- airport doesn't want to install a pump and get on a contract. That station sells mostly to boaters using Elephant Butte Reservoir.
Major problem that I have with E-10 is that Proseal manufacturers won't positively comment on compatibility --- and some users have reported fuel tank degradation from using E10. (I have some test coupons sitting in baths of E0, E10, and E85, but it will still be a decade before the test is over --- so check back at that time)
FBO's are like sneakers, not everyone smells good.
If you really want to feel like “trailer trash”, land a helicopter at a corporate focused FBO!
😂
If you are a small GA aircraft why are you at a place like MillionAir. There are 2 other airports in the area with no ramp or landing fees and fuel prices are $1.50 less. Simple solution don’t go there.
Not always that simple. I don't really fly for pleasure. I'm a small business owner (video/tv production) and often are required by clients to land at a specific airport (for instance, we had a shoot right next to ATL-- it wasn't really practical to fly to a different airport). SOmetimes I can pick and choose the airport, but sometimes the work dictates. And even when you get a choice (New York City airspace comes to mind) there aren't any good choices (TEB was no fun.)
@@TakingOff As a business it is great that you have the option to give your customers the MillionAir experience. My displeasure is the lack of transparency from most FBOs on what their fees are. Most pilots who stray from their local airport find out quickly that there is a laundry list of charges that the FBOs seem to randomly charge. Landing fee, ramp fee, security fee, amenities fee, crew car fee, the list goes on and on.
I've gotten much better at calling ahead to get the list of fees and changing my flight plan when possible. As you pointed out FBOs in larger metro areas seem to be fee heavy. As a business owner it would feel wrong to me to do some of the things I have seen done. As an aviation community we need to write comments on AirNav or something like that telling the stories of what is happening. I know AOPA is fighting some of the more predatory fees and pricing.
Cheap people complain about $50.