This pendulum swing that is travelling from high to low and end up high again, is this how a DG throw should be? When I look at slowmo of McBeth I don't see this pendulum swing happening really, but I guess I can see more of this happening in GG.
Good Q - pro players use pendulums less these days, but many of them have smaller pendulum/pump action when you know what to look for. If you check out older footage of McBeth he had a bigger pump, then dropped it, then recently had a small one come back. In that case, visualize McBeth's swing as a smaller, more horizontal pendulum. Even when I switch to a style more like his, I'm still trying to "find the pendulum" in my body motion - same body motion fundamentals even though the posture and range of arm motion is different. I don't know if YT will allow it, but here's a link to a gif of Paul's very "free wheeling" form long ago - notice that a pendulum is much more obvious: i.makeagif.com/media/9-15-2018/ZsDPw-.gif I share/teach the "vertical" high-low-high swing because it's really good at connecting you with the ground. At first it's most similar to throwing extreme spike hyzers (just did a livestream with Overthrow touching on that last night), then you start to flatten it out and can shrink the pendulum to a smaller pump. I actually would recommend starting by throwing on bigger hyzers at first if you take the pendulum route, then learn to flatten them out. GG is definitely the clearest current example of a "vertical" player (see also David Feldberg for a "pure" pendulum player, 6x major winner). Like GG, I get the most power with more up-down action because I'm a stockier guy with short levers and it's the easiest way to take advantage of my body type. I can't run well due to my knees, but I switch to a more horizontal style like Heimburg and a lot of the guys on tour for my low ceiling & straightest shots. I think that horizontal style makes it easier to learn to throw flatter at first, but the vertical style helps you learn how to use your legs and gravity & sync from the ground up. A lot of players really struggle with weight shift, hips, gravity etc. which is why I spend more time on the pendulum system, but YMMV! A lot of people have had good questions about all this so I'm going to talk about some of these tradeoffs in the context of the x-step in my next planned vid!
@@AceItDiscGolf I see it like this - McBeth is a pro and has thrown discs many orders of magnitude more than I have. He's already internalized a lot of these motions the pendulum exaggerates. Exaggeration when learning and drilling is beneficial to train your muscles and the mental pathways to know what that motion should feel like. Over time, as you improve and your muscle memory gets more ingrained, you don't have to exaggerate and instead find a more optimal range of motion that accomplishes the same goal. Also, while I might be trying to throw as far and hard as I can on most holes since my form isn't up to par yet, Paul can throw harder and isn't pushing 100% on every toss. Just my 2c. Thanks for the content, Ace. The analytical breakdowns map really well to how my brain processes.
@@macbony Appreciate your thoughts! I agree - I still work on using a "full range" of motion first, then worry about shrinking things down after my body gets the hang of it.
@@AceItDiscGolf Thanks for a good answer, QUALITY! I've been trying out this pendulum stuff in the past and I think it's easy to get used to actually. I struggle having my shoulder rise during my throw and it's basically impossible to get a lower "reachback", reachback just rises by itself. However, when I do this pendulum effect and throw spike hyzers it will fix itself, when I try to throw flat with pendulum effect it will still happen. It seem like there is no space for the disc to travel through my power pocket which will lead myself into having shoulder that rises. Occasionally the disc will hit my left nipple. Thanks again for your answer.
I just want to let you know that I am on my third, maybe fourth, round of viewing your videos. I’ve seen most of what is out there and your videos are truly amazing 😻
Just wanna say this has been the most helpful instructional series on the backhand I’ve come across in the 12+ years I’ve been struggling. I’ve tried and given up countless times, and now I’m finally starting to feel it. I’m still working on syncing the upper body and creating lag, but right now just from the pump and pendulum stand still my throws are just as far (slightly further!) and more accurate than my “natural” throw with run up. Very excited to continue developing and incorporating more. Thanks so much for your time and effort.
You're welcome! I'm glad it's helping you. I always remind people that my movement was still not great in these videos so never use me as an exact reference for them, but I would still stand by most of the learning ideas.
This is the most concise and well explained video series on the backhand throw for disc golf. Pure gold. I got excited doing the off arm drill and snapped my hand into the kitchen door: BAM!
Thanks! Just hoping to make learning it all a bit easier on people out there. I have a module on the "Slinging Arm" next, followed by some clarification on the hips and a self form critique. From there I'll see what people are most interested in!
As someone who is just starting to watch your videos, I think the gem in this video is the off/rear arm segment, which is the first time I've been able to (albeit clumsily) get my off-arm involved. It's not intuitive trying to bring my arm in and down during this movement, and other videos I've watched explain it, haven't made it easier for me to emulate the movement. (Ezra Aderhold, Ben Bennett, Danny Lindahl, Overthrow Disc Golf) The reason being is my off-arm ends up too far away, even if I try to keep it shoulder length. Getting it to "switch gears" doesn't work. Your swivel move translated well for me. For me one key isn't lifting the off-arm as high, so it doesn't have to change direction as much in flight. But starting the swivel earlier helps as well. Doing both things helped me with the timing for this. Regardless, I was able to do this motion for the first time, just now, whereas I could never do that before. Thank you!
Great video - really enjoyed the part on the off arm seems obvious now but I had never thought of driving the elbow (almost like swinging a bat). Looking forward to your next video.
Nice! Thanks for the kind words. I struggled with the off arm for months until seabas22 sorted me out. It is very close to swinging a bat. I'm excited to get to that module for the channel. I'm starting from the ground up, so next module is coming soon and will address leg & hip mechanics, which so many of us struggle with. Each vid will include common snags & fixes.
Hi @ 3:37 you mention your ankles outside of your knees which are outside your hips for maximum leverage. Are you trying to actively feel a squeeze/tension between the legs? Or does the placement of ankles/knees/hips automatically generate the sensation of leverage? Thanks!
Good Q: I would advise focusing on (1) the leverage of your feet on the ground and (2) getting it to transition smoothly into a toe/heel plant with your full weight shift like walking. You don't want to have any weird pressure inside/between the legs or on the knees.
Love your vids man! The video with the off arm kinematics is something I’ve been searching for and you explained it well. Would you consider doing any form critiques?
at 4:33 "as you drive that hip forward with that drive leg" I'm assuming that you're referring only to the rear hip? or both hips? What is the front hip doing when you're "moving directly with that stride to inherit the weight into the brace"?
Hi Ajaz, interestingly enough, I'm in the middle of a conversation on the dgcoursereview forums about the best way to describe this action (it turns out to be quite difficult). In the meantime, I recommend seabas22's Battering Ram drill to get the feeling for the correct hip action. Once I check the logic/language of a couple modules on the hips I'm wrapping up now I can circle back to clarify & you'll have a few more drills for it!
@@ajazsyed3263 Here: www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134329&page=17 Post 329 onward is where I start to try clarifying how to talk about the hips, and it gets deep from there. I will drop talking about "triple extension" entirely since that's not a great term, but I'm still soliciting feedback which will allow me to concisely answer your question here/in upcoming modules :-) FYI, I wrote my post there after reading all other 300+ comments, so I really think your question is valuable and we'll end up with a decent coaching answer!
Last thought - I can't see them in this comment stream, but you may have mentioned Hogan Power move and Buttwipe, which both get you into correct postures and motions for the transition. So regardless of how we end up talking about it, can't go wrong there!
Guys whatever you do I highly suggest you don't swing the disc down to trap the snap, this will cause air bouncing. Also, do not rise up on your brace leg.
Agree. The swing plane will need to adjust for throwing angle. You should not try to "trap a snap", but to obtain a good arm curl/whip that causes the late spike in acceleration at the "tip of the whip". You can also get air bouncing with bad grip. Those topics are planned in the upcoming module. There's enough confusion about leg action/hips here and elsewhere that I'm going to do a clarifying module. Here, I intended to simplify the sequence but a couple of mechanics can be better illustrated and explained & linked here and in my "Lower Body" module. The brace leg will actually extend the hip up and back into rotation in a flow during the weight transfer, which isn't illustrated here and should be understood in the context of overall good lower body mechanics. I don't like leaving that lingering so I'm on it! Thanks for the comments!
I have to say that this is kind of amateurish. I mean, you're not holding a glass with a beverage in it, you're not dancing around with a pool cue in your hand or between your legs and you're not even in a basement. This is a joke.
I think that demonstrating such objects is best left with the Grandmaster & OG. These deep secrets can only truly be learned in the Temple of Divine Orioles.
![แฉกลโกงงานวัด 2024 [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.106 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/taC5dpP3HXA/mqdefault.jpg)
This pendulum swing that is travelling from high to low and end up high again, is this how a DG throw should be? When I look at slowmo of McBeth I don't see this pendulum swing happening really, but I guess I can see more of this happening in GG.
Good Q - pro players use pendulums less these days, but many of them have smaller pendulum/pump action when you know what to look for. If you check out older footage of McBeth he had a bigger pump, then dropped it, then recently had a small one come back. In that case, visualize McBeth's swing as a smaller, more horizontal pendulum. Even when I switch to a style more like his, I'm still trying to "find the pendulum" in my body motion - same body motion fundamentals even though the posture and range of arm motion is different.
I don't know if YT will allow it, but here's a link to a gif of Paul's very "free wheeling" form long ago - notice that a pendulum is much more obvious:
i.makeagif.com/media/9-15-2018/ZsDPw-.gif
I share/teach the "vertical" high-low-high swing because it's really good at connecting you with the ground. At first it's most similar to throwing extreme spike hyzers (just did a livestream with Overthrow touching on that last night), then you start to flatten it out and can shrink the pendulum to a smaller pump. I actually would recommend starting by throwing on bigger hyzers at first if you take the pendulum route, then learn to flatten them out.
GG is definitely the clearest current example of a "vertical" player (see also David Feldberg for a "pure" pendulum player, 6x major winner). Like GG, I get the most power with more up-down action because I'm a stockier guy with short levers and it's the easiest way to take advantage of my body type. I can't run well due to my knees, but I switch to a more horizontal style like Heimburg and a lot of the guys on tour for my low ceiling & straightest shots. I think that horizontal style makes it easier to learn to throw flatter at first, but the vertical style helps you learn how to use your legs and gravity & sync from the ground up. A lot of players really struggle with weight shift, hips, gravity etc. which is why I spend more time on the pendulum system, but YMMV!
A lot of people have had good questions about all this so I'm going to talk about some of these tradeoffs in the context of the x-step in my next planned vid!
@@AceItDiscGolf I see it like this - McBeth is a pro and has thrown discs many orders of magnitude more than I have. He's already internalized a lot of these motions the pendulum exaggerates. Exaggeration when learning and drilling is beneficial to train your muscles and the mental pathways to know what that motion should feel like. Over time, as you improve and your muscle memory gets more ingrained, you don't have to exaggerate and instead find a more optimal range of motion that accomplishes the same goal. Also, while I might be trying to throw as far and hard as I can on most holes since my form isn't up to par yet, Paul can throw harder and isn't pushing 100% on every toss. Just my 2c. Thanks for the content, Ace. The analytical breakdowns map really well to how my brain processes.
@@macbony Appreciate your thoughts! I agree - I still work on using a "full range" of motion first, then worry about shrinking things down after my body gets the hang of it.
@@AceItDiscGolf Thanks for a good answer, QUALITY!
I've been trying out this pendulum stuff in the past and I think it's easy to get used to actually. I struggle having my shoulder rise during my throw and it's basically impossible to get a lower "reachback", reachback just rises by itself. However, when I do this pendulum effect and throw spike hyzers it will fix itself, when I try to throw flat with pendulum effect it will still happen. It seem like there is no space for the disc to travel through my power pocket which will lead myself into having shoulder that rises. Occasionally the disc will hit my left nipple. Thanks again for your answer.
Check out philo! For me this pendulum works better to engage important parts of the body than the pump
I just want to let you know that I am on my third, maybe fourth, round of viewing your videos. I’ve seen most of what is out there and your videos are truly amazing 😻
Hey, thanks! Glad it's offering some replay value and staying power!
Just wanna say this has been the most helpful instructional series on the backhand I’ve come across in the 12+ years I’ve been struggling. I’ve tried and given up countless times, and now I’m finally starting to feel it. I’m still working on syncing the upper body and creating lag, but right now just from the pump and pendulum stand still my throws are just as far (slightly further!) and more accurate than my “natural” throw with run up. Very excited to continue developing and incorporating more. Thanks so much for your time and effort.
You're welcome! I'm glad it's helping you.
I always remind people that my movement was still not great in these videos so never use me as an exact reference for them, but I would still stand by most of the learning ideas.
This is the most concise and well explained video series on the backhand throw for disc golf. Pure gold. I got excited doing the off arm drill and snapped my hand into the kitchen door: BAM!
Gotta watch those door frames, they seem to come out of nowhere!
Great videos. Very clear and concise. I hope you continue these videos because you will get a lot of followers soon.
Thanks! Just hoping to make learning it all a bit easier on people out there. I have a module on the "Slinging Arm" next, followed by some clarification on the hips and a self form critique. From there I'll see what people are most interested in!
Another informational video. Thank you!
really digging the format so far! excited to watch the next few videos
Not sure if this thread/channel still active-but thx so much. I now have added substantial distance to ky drives due to your pendulum clip!
Nice! Still around. I have a few things planned for the "early vs late series" and when I have a chance want to refresh the intro series
Awesome-I look forward to it!
I'm about to power thru every video you got!
As someone who is just starting to watch your videos, I think the gem in this video is the off/rear arm segment, which is the first time I've been able to (albeit clumsily) get my off-arm involved. It's not intuitive trying to bring my arm in and down during this movement, and other videos I've watched explain it, haven't made it easier for me to emulate the movement. (Ezra Aderhold, Ben Bennett, Danny Lindahl, Overthrow Disc Golf) The reason being is my off-arm ends up too far away, even if I try to keep it shoulder length. Getting it to "switch gears" doesn't work. Your swivel move translated well for me. For me one key isn't lifting the off-arm as high, so it doesn't have to change direction as much in flight. But starting the swivel earlier helps as well. Doing both things helped me with the timing for this. Regardless, I was able to do this motion for the first time, just now, whereas I could never do that before. Thank you!
Great video - really enjoyed the part on the off arm seems obvious now but I had never thought of driving the elbow (almost like swinging a bat). Looking forward to your next video.
Nice! Thanks for the kind words. I struggled with the off arm for months until seabas22 sorted me out. It is very close to swinging a bat. I'm excited to get to that module for the channel.
I'm starting from the ground up, so next module is coming soon and will address leg & hip mechanics, which so many of us struggle with. Each vid will include common snags & fixes.
Well done!
Yay! Thanks man. If I'm committing any faux pas don't hesitate to critique. I will keep cross-linking to your stack!
Seabas roots are apparent!
@@24ctaber May those roots only deepen!
Hi @ 3:37 you mention your ankles outside of your knees which are outside your hips for maximum leverage.
Are you trying to actively feel a squeeze/tension between the legs?
Or does the placement of ankles/knees/hips automatically generate the sensation of leverage? Thanks!
Good Q: I would advise focusing on (1) the leverage of your feet on the ground and (2) getting it to transition smoothly into a toe/heel plant with your full weight shift like walking. You don't want to have any weird pressure inside/between the legs or on the knees.
Love your vids man! The video with the off arm kinematics is something I’ve been searching for and you explained it well. Would you consider doing any form critiques?
Happy to take a look at a vid!
@@AceItDiscGolf You the man. Best way to share?
let's use aceitdiscgolf@gmail.com
Somehow I have same dance + martial backgroud, and am learning disc golf form now. Maybe we're the type.
at 4:33 "as you drive that hip forward with that drive leg" I'm assuming that you're referring only to the rear hip? or both hips?
What is the front hip doing when you're "moving directly with that stride to inherit the weight into the brace"?
Hi Ajaz, interestingly enough, I'm in the middle of a conversation on the dgcoursereview forums about the best way to describe this action (it turns out to be quite difficult). In the meantime, I recommend seabas22's Battering Ram drill to get the feeling for the correct hip action. Once I check the logic/language of a couple modules on the hips I'm wrapping up now I can circle back to clarify & you'll have a few more drills for it!
Oh, and I should also mention seabas22 Swivel stairs, which emphasizes the same action with different balance points
@@AceItDiscGolf sounds cool. What's the link to the dgcr thread?
@@ajazsyed3263 Here: www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134329&page=17
Post 329 onward is where I start to try clarifying how to talk about the hips, and it gets deep from there. I will drop talking about "triple extension" entirely since that's not a great term, but I'm still soliciting feedback which will allow me to concisely answer your question here/in upcoming modules :-) FYI, I wrote my post there after reading all other 300+ comments, so I really think your question is valuable and we'll end up with a decent coaching answer!
Last thought - I can't see them in this comment stream, but you may have mentioned Hogan Power move and Buttwipe, which both get you into correct postures and motions for the transition. So regardless of how we end up talking about it, can't go wrong there!
I do not know what a "closed shoulder" is, and so, at 5:15, I am bucked off, lost, and out of luck... again. I have two degrees...
Subbed.
Incredible. Maybe a bit slower cos there is a lot to understand or like putting step 1, step 2, .. to reproduce easily
Thanks again
Thanks for the feedback MrHardgabi. As I post modules I'll think about a "long format" version with more looping & step labels!
Guys whatever you do I highly suggest you don't swing the disc down to trap the snap, this will cause air bouncing. Also, do not rise up on your brace leg.
Agree. The swing plane will need to adjust for throwing angle. You should not try to "trap a snap", but to obtain a good arm curl/whip that causes the late spike in acceleration at the "tip of the whip". You can also get air bouncing with bad grip. Those topics are planned in the upcoming module.
There's enough confusion about leg action/hips here and elsewhere that I'm going to do a clarifying module. Here, I intended to simplify the sequence but a couple of mechanics can be better illustrated and explained & linked here and in my "Lower Body" module. The brace leg will actually extend the hip up and back into rotation in a flow during the weight transfer, which isn't illustrated here and should be understood in the context of overall good lower body mechanics. I don't like leaving that lingering so I'm on it!
Thanks for the comments!
: )
I have to say that this is kind of amateurish. I mean, you're not holding a glass with a beverage in it, you're not dancing around with a pool cue in your hand or between your legs and you're not even in a basement. This is a joke.
I think that demonstrating such objects is best left with the Grandmaster & OG. These deep secrets can only truly be learned in the Temple of Divine Orioles.