To learn packet radio was why I became a ham. Then I found out no one practices it anymore. I am glad someone is actually showing that this still exist and hopefully someone in my area will start to play with it again.
Thanks for the video! I believe Packet Radio is a lost art that needs to be totally revived. As in an emergency or disaster this system will be one of the few working communications. Years ago, I was using Packet TNCs in the GLB TNC days. We had super nodes set up work from Florida to California. Just get a connection from where you lived into one node and you had communications with your friends across the country. Internal mail box, I thought was great. It was the early form of Email and all done via radio instead of Pay As You Go Internet. The Hams had the early form of Email and it was great. If you remember GWBasic programs we wrote were small in file size. We could convert them to Hex code and send them as an Email. The receiving person downloads the text, converts back and they have a working program that I had wrote. Software based TNCs are OK, but they still need a computer of some sort to stay running. That is a waste of equipment and power. I really wish someone would rewrite the Old Style TNC system on maybe a ESP8266 or ESP32 and keep it on the market! I have seen where once in a while a cheap copy is made which does a few basic functions then months later gone. Like Kantronics, who has been around for a long time, keep making the equipment. Where I live Emergency Comm is going back to Packet Radio becaude of eBay and a TNC you may fine on there once in a while for a good price. But, the real thing is companies who make radios need to get back into making radios with real Data ports as to hook TNCs up to. APRS is OK but still very limited! No BBS functions, No way to interface with a good display etc. Might be a new radio some day based on the old ideas of real data ports with Rx, Tx, Squelch, Mic audio, Cos, Cor, Ptt. Yes, the good old days that might save a life some how. Don't know how many engineers could build a radio like that now days, Ha Ha...
I love packet radio. I have a Kantronics KPC3+ running 24/7 on 145.050. Where I live, southern California, there is still a lot of activity. I want to get a solar power / battery setup for emergency communications.
I've been thinking the same thing. I only have the PicoPacket that I'm just now starting to setup (bought it long ago but never invested the time to get it going). Getting it online and run by solar could be very useful in some of the extended power-outage situations like we have been having here (northern California).
My KAM has HF packet capability so I am about to try this out across the UK on 40 metres. I agree with the comment about puTTY - it is a superb terminal program - very user friendly and "almost" plug and play. A word about RS232 to USB converter hardware - the cheap ones don't work... Very nice demo and explanation, thank you!
Great to see a packet station in operation again! The problem is, even if you set up a packet node with BBS, no one will use it. In the early 2000's, at the waning end of packet networks, I set up a station but got zero connections calling in for like a year. I eventually took the packet station down and the equipment went into mothballs. I'm just now pulling it back out with the idea of setting up an APRS iGate. Even APRS seems to be waning nowadays. Thanks for the video; you reminded me of what commands I need for working with my KPC-3!
I resurrected my TNC from the late 80's and found there is a fairly decent packet network in place in Minnesota still. i include a KPC-3+ in my go kit as well as one at the home QTH. interesting note. there is a winlink station in Minnesota that i can connect to vis packet. This is another option for sending email when internet is not available. Great videos. 73, NØJOL
hello Hank, we now have 2 of us here in N.E. Ga with keyboard to keyboard packet working and a 3rd guy, he is waiting on his cable from Les so we are trying to get packet started again. its great. We are working on HF/UHF and VHF packet as of now, all keyboard to keyboard real time.
yes we are on 145.050, 145.070 @ 1200bps. 2 of us do keyboard to keyboard here in North East Ga. trying to get others in the area involved.also I listen to 144.390 APRS and see stations from all over the South East. next im trying to get my packet HF up and going to.
I built/coded my own system that works about the same as this, but the transceiver is my ole Baofeng UV82, so I have to use AFSK. I have a web server and a service that reads and serves messages from DireWolf. It isn't meant to do real-time or keyboard-to-keyboard, but I am thinking I might be able to make my software work that way. Thanks for this demo!
Great video, but we still need to know how you created the KPC3 connection that you selected to connect to. Can you provide details on what to enter into the Hyperterminal software in order to setup a connection/file to the Kantronics TNC?
Good video. Kind of reminds me of the days when I had my 1k2 PC-COM modem and practiced Packet Radio on 11m. Back then, the software I used, Xpacket, ran on DOS along with the TFPCX TSR driver (based on The Firmware). It's hard to imagine today that this really worked, esp. on something simple as an 80386 PC. A real TNC was way too pricey IMHO and out of reach for most young people like me, unless you had a fellow ham friend that built one for you. Later on, programs like Flexnet or MixW2 did about the same with a soundcard. Nowadays, a simple Arduino can emulate a KISS TNC, even. Still, it's nice to see old TNC/TNC2 like devices still being used. They can work on their own and do things like APRS or host little mailboxes.
Great presentation. I just acquired a AEA PK-232 and am starting to set up my station. A lot of hams in my area are interested in bringing Packet back online....
Thanks for doing this video. I really enjoyed it. I just acquired a couple of Pakratt PK-232MBX TNCs that an old ham was giving away. I bought a Yaesu FT-450D HF and a ICOM IC-2000 VHF transceiver to connect them to. Going to order the cables from Les when I get paid this month. I'm going to use the HF radio and one PK-232 to set up a 30m APRS i-gate so I can reliably get messages gated to APRS-IS from my portable station when I'm out doing SOTA activations, etc. I think I might use the VHF radio to set up a packet node, since there isn't one in my area. Tossing up between doing that and setting up a Winlink node, since those are thin on the ground here as well. What do you think? The question I'm asking myself is "why am I messing around with these ancient hardware TNCs when I can more easily use a software modem like Soundmodem?"
Nice, Hank! You are wearing me down and opening my eyes to the wisdom of packet radio for alternate comms... I might be in the market for a TNC modem. And thanks for the shout out on the Ranger! ;-)
I think one reason why Packet Radio isn't too popular at the moment, is peoples perception that you still need a hardware TNC, and the complexity of all the commands. A TNC isn't needed anymore with the availablity of soundcard TNC emulators, that use a data modes interface such as the Signalink. I use the UZ7HO Soundmodem with its companion Terminal program, Easyterm, written by the same author, and a homebrew interface. Easyterm has a nice, simple to use, graphical user interface, which handles all the commands for you. It also has a very nice integrated Personal mailbox. If you are set up for any of the other data modes, it's just a matter of installing the software, and you are set up for packet.
That should be cake to learn for anyone who ever used command line DOS or any of the many, many command line driven programs/software. The hardest thing would probably be the cryptic command line help services that define the command line option or switches, but after a few uses those should be nailed down in no time. Very cool and so very useful in a net down situation.
Love the old school packet apparatus. Still have my MFJ 1270b and Tandy 102 from years ago when I was doing mobile packet on 2 meters. Been thinking about digging out the old gear and doing some hf packet now. Maybe you could do a video about that? 😃😃 73.
We need to combine the concepts of 1980s packet radio with the larger regional service area of NVIS and modern digital modes with relatively low bitrates/bandwidth but very high reliability from forward error correction. MT63 is emerging as the winner in that category. This eliminates the line of sight limitations of VHF and it's also inherently QRP.
MT63 has forward error correction - so it can detect and correct transmission errors without retransmitting. The various digital modes use all sorts of different error correction schemes, and many of these methods have been optimized for the types of interference and signal distortions characteristic of different methods of propagation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MT63 "MT63 distributes the encoding of each character over a long time period, and over several tones. This code and symbol spreading implementation is key to its robustness under less than ideal conditions. The MT63 mode is very tolerant of mistuning, as most software will handle 120 Hz tuning offsets under normal conditions." AMRRON is using MT63 on 2m and 6m for their digital communications. amrron.com/nets-regional-national/amrron-local-nets
I am wondering if you have updated this or not? I ask as im looking to undertake a project to make a much smaller version, that is also portable. Main differances is changing your laptop to a Raspberry PI, your 12v set up to 18650s with solar charge option and with 240v (my mains voltage). Power input still undetermined, but this denotes the size of the package obviously.
Thank you for the demo - very cool! What terminal programs do you recommend for LINUX and MAC operating systems? What is the minimum dollar investment for a setup like this?
for linux over serial, just figure out which dev file the serial port you're TNC is connected to. Install the program called "screen". This is a terminal run application, so you will need to use the terminal for it.. For me, i'm using a USB to serial adapter, so the command I use looks like this "sudo screen /dev/ttyUSB0 1200". This pulls up the screen program, tells it to connect to the device attacked to ttyUSB0, and sets the connection rate to 1200, which is what my PK-232 uses. Some times, cheap USB to serial adapters you have to unplug, and then plug back in, and then use the screen program again.
Well aprs can do allot too. without the internet. But as a prepper I guess you don't like positions being known. Its were all the regular packets stations have gone to die I think. This is a quick demo video. I like how you left the audio . I love that sound
So this works with HF as well? And I am guessing you have to know the others packet address before you could contact them? Neat stuff I may have to look into this, definite prepping item for communications.
Sorry - missed part of your question. The packet address is the call sign. It all runs simplex. In the old networks your would hop from one station to the next with V (via) commands. i.e. C XYZ123 V ABC123.
HF packet exists but is problematic. Look up Network 105 for more info. HF runs at 300 baud (except 10 meters which is 1200 baud). The various parameters also need changed so that packets aren't too large and that you aren't retrying before the remote station can acknowledge you. In some cases you may have multi-port stations that allow you to connect to HF from VHF (or the other way around) meaning if such a node is available you can take advantage of HF packet even on a technician license (since you could access on VHF).
Cool video. Few questions: what would one need to built a digipeater on the go?? Once a message is on the device can it be retrive without a radio, like just a computer??? It could be a good security set up between a base camp and reconnaissance communication 8)
+Commsprepper maybe a video how to set up one is in order then. It's a great idea. Especially on my last ham fest there was some pretty inexpensive packet tnc 8). It would be like Navajo code breaker WWWII use something okd not everyone is aware 8)
I have aall the cables and the Kantronics Packet communicator 3 Plus. I have the serial to usb cable like you have. How do I get my new Dell Laptop running MS Windos 11 to see the TNC ?
Yes - it's called digipeating over a digipeater. The station in my shed is already a digipeater with the Kam product line. When digipeating you enter C CALLSIGN V CALLSIGN. The V is for via. then it will connect and the other station will relay for you.
Yes - it's called digipeating over a digipeater. The station in my shed is already a digipeater with the Kam product line. When digipeating you enter C CALLSIGN V CALLSIGN. The V is for via. then it will connect and the other station will relay for you.
Yes, you have digipeaters as already mentioned, these are horribly inefficient as they are pretty much just repeaters meaning that any response (including acknowledgment) must travel through all stations. This can lead to significant congestion on the channel. Nodes effectively put you at their station as far as the connections are concerned. Let's use 4 stations A - B - C - D. With a digipeater connection you transmit a connect to station D from station A via Station C and B. This takes time and if the channel is very busy can fail easily. Once you connect and an acknowledgement is sent back, the acknowledgement has to traverse C and B prior to reaching A. If the channel is busy at either station the Acknowledgement could be delayed and time out. This causes significant congestion. Station A sends a packet, Station B blindly re-transmits, station C blindly retransmits, station D then acknowledges, station C blindly retransmits (observing Collision Avoidance), station B blindly retransmits (again observing collision avoidance) , and hopefully you haven't run out of time before the acknowledgement gets back to station A. With a node you connect your station A to the node at Station B at this point you have a connection to station B and the acknowledgments are handled for your station at station B only. From Station B you connect to station C's node. Station B then connects to station C, but station A is only connected to station B. If the channel is busy at station C and an acknowledgement has to wait, there is no concern about timing out station A as it has already been acknowledged by station B. Once you are connected to the node at station C, you then connect to station D. When you send a packet it goes to station B, station B acknowledges station A and your station A is simply waiting on a response from station B, since Station B is connected to station C, it then forwards the packet to station C. Station C acknowledges station B and forwards the packet to station D. The response goes in the reverse. Now when the node system gets busy, let's say station C's acknowledgement wasn't received at station B in time, station B retries and stations A and D are none the wiser. In computer networking think of a node working like this: Station A telnets to B, then from B telnets to C, and from C telnets to D.
That's not going to happen in the Amateur radio service. It would be nice for some encryption to protect privacy when supporting first responder entities.
$60 is too much for a very simplistic terminal emulator software. There are tons of free ones out there and most are likely much better than HyperTerm (unless this paid version has vastly improved over the included ones on Windows.). I usually go to try to find a freeware software before I'll pay for one. Just saying.
Fundamentally though, don't they both basically function in the same way? Yes, I realize a RoIP gateway uses TCP/IP and technically there are some diffs, but your modem is basically doing the same thing as a RoIP gateway (function wise, not technically) is it not? APRS or RoIP; you need extra equipment to "mo/dem" the data and either way, the "link" is RF. The main diff as I see it here is that a RoIP Gateway can interface with a whole lot more in terms of back-end tech since TCP/IP is pretty much the defacto networking standard now days. Basically, what you have the ability to do with RoIP is make a super-sized WAN. Besides the technical differences, it is the basic premise behind Cellular networks. I understand that digital radios have different restrictions/requirements for point-to-point comms, or relay comms, but my understanding with a RoIP gateway is that it turns the digital "IP" data, into an RF signal, then back again... much like the modem of your APRS system. In other words; with either system you are basically creating a wireless bridge/relay. My thought here is basically setting up a mobile WAN infrastructure that I can secure relatively well, since IP encryption is, for now, legal... unlike RF encryption. This would also make it really easy to interface systems such as a portable NAS, email server with chat system, other LAN infrastructure like security devices... the possibilities are endless. I hope all that make sense... lol.
+GraymanTactics they are nothing alike. In this video I showed how to create digital communications on a closed network with no IP or land connections - no external dependencies. Add solar power and it's even more stand-alone. Soon I will get into digital repeating from one station to another with a middle station relaying.
Commsprepper my point here is you can have a RoIP gateway, in the same form factor, as this system. I look forward to your video on the topic. Hopefully soon i'll have my system together and will vid the process and outcome. Thanks.
To learn packet radio was why I became a ham. Then I found out no one practices it anymore. I am glad someone is actually showing that this still exist and hopefully someone in my area will start to play with it again.
I live in southern California. There is still quite a lot of activity on 145.050. If you are into Linux, you can easily run TCP/IP over AX.25. That is a lot of fun.
To learn packet radio was why I became a ham. Then I found out no one practices it anymore. I am glad someone is actually showing that this still exist and hopefully someone in my area will start to play with it again.
Thanks.
Just getting into packet-Your tutorials have been very helpful! Your videos on Pactor (P4Dragon) have been a great help as well!
Thanks for the video! I believe Packet Radio is a lost art that needs to be totally revived. As in an emergency or disaster this system will be one of the few working communications. Years ago, I was using Packet TNCs in the GLB TNC days. We had super nodes set up work from Florida to California. Just get a connection from where you lived into one node and you had communications with your friends across the country. Internal mail box, I thought was great. It was the early form of Email and all done via radio instead of Pay As You Go Internet. The Hams had the early form of Email and it was great. If you remember GWBasic programs we wrote were small in file size. We could convert them to Hex code and send them as an Email. The receiving person downloads the text, converts back and they have a working program that I had wrote. Software based TNCs are OK, but they still need a computer of some sort to stay running. That is a waste of equipment and power. I really wish someone would rewrite the Old Style TNC system on maybe a ESP8266 or ESP32 and keep it on the market! I have seen where once in a while a cheap copy is made which does a few basic functions then months later gone. Like Kantronics, who has been around for a long time, keep making the equipment. Where I live Emergency Comm is going back to Packet Radio becaude of eBay and a TNC you may fine on there once in a while for a good price. But, the real thing is companies who make radios need to get back into making radios with real Data ports as to hook TNCs up to. APRS is OK but still very limited! No BBS functions, No way to interface with a good display etc. Might be a new radio some day based on the old ideas of real data ports with Rx, Tx, Squelch, Mic audio, Cos, Cor, Ptt. Yes, the good old days that might save a life some how. Don't know how many engineers could build a radio like that now days, Ha Ha...
Man what a blast from the past ! I need to dig out my old TNC. Thanks for sharing !
Thanks. Dig it out and get on the air.
Up and running do you have a bbs up there you are using ?
Not right now. My plan is to leave the Kam-XL up there once I get another antenna.
I dig it. I was fortunate to find one that is pretty close to me. I can connect up and down the east coast.
a trick : watch movies on Flixzone. I've been using it for watching a lot of movies these days.
I love packet radio. I have a Kantronics KPC3+ running 24/7 on 145.050. Where I live, southern California, there is still a lot of activity. I want to get a solar power / battery setup for emergency communications.
Getting ready to setup the modem tonight here at the retreat.
I've been thinking the same thing. I only have the PicoPacket that I'm just now starting to setup (bought it long ago but never invested the time to get it going). Getting it online and run by solar could be very useful in some of the extended power-outage situations like we have been having here (northern California).
My KAM has HF packet capability so I am about to try this out across the UK on 40 metres. I agree with the comment about puTTY - it is a superb terminal program - very user friendly and "almost" plug and play. A word about RS232 to USB converter hardware - the cheap ones don't work... Very nice demo and explanation, thank you!
the cheap ones work fine on linux and android but windows has driver issues
Keyspan sells the best USB-Serial converter in my opinion.
I am using puTTY on my AEA tnc and works great...
Great to see a packet station in operation again! The problem is, even if you set up a packet node with BBS, no one will use it. In the early 2000's, at the waning end of packet networks, I set up a station but got zero connections calling in for like a year. I eventually took the packet station down and the equipment went into mothballs. I'm just now pulling it back out with the idea of setting up an APRS iGate. Even APRS seems to be waning nowadays. Thanks for the video; you reminded me of what commands I need for working with my KPC-3!
I agree - I'm getting ready to pull mine down too. No one uses it. I now use AREDN.
@@Commsprepper going to configure mine as an APRS digipeater. As opposed to throwing it away. 😎
I resurrected my TNC from the late 80's and found there is a fairly decent packet network in place in Minnesota still. i include a KPC-3+ in my go kit as well as one at the home QTH. interesting note. there is a winlink station in Minnesota that i can connect to vis packet. This is another option for sending email when internet is not available. Great videos. 73, NØJOL
Thanks for the info and taking the time to watch and comment. Hank
hello Hank, we now have 2 of us here in N.E. Ga with keyboard to keyboard packet working and a 3rd guy, he is waiting on his cable from Les so we are trying to get packet started again. its great. We are working on HF/UHF and VHF packet as of now, all keyboard to keyboard real time.
Cool. I would love to get that going in my AOs.
Are you guys on 145.0x? I am not too far from you and scan those frequencies but have never heard anything.
yes we are on 145.050, 145.070 @ 1200bps. 2 of us do keyboard to keyboard here in North East Ga. trying to get others in the area involved.also I listen to 144.390 APRS and see stations from all over the South East. next im trying to get my packet HF up and going to.
Great presentation of packet radio. Sometime new to learn and try out without depending on the Internet.
Great video! Brings back memories!
I built/coded my own system that works about the same as this, but the transceiver is my ole Baofeng UV82, so I have to use AFSK. I have a web server and a service that reads and serves messages from DireWolf. It isn't meant to do real-time or keyboard-to-keyboard, but I am thinking I might be able to make my software work that way. Thanks for this demo!
Great video, but we still need to know how you created the KPC3 connection that you selected to connect to. Can you provide details on what to enter into the Hyperterminal software in order to setup a connection/file to the Kantronics TNC?
Good video. Kind of reminds me of the days when I had my 1k2 PC-COM modem and practiced Packet Radio on 11m. Back then, the software I used, Xpacket, ran on DOS along with the TFPCX TSR driver (based on The Firmware). It's hard to imagine today that this really worked, esp. on something simple as an 80386 PC. A real TNC was way too pricey IMHO and out of reach for most young people like me, unless you had a fellow ham friend that built one for you. Later on, programs like Flexnet or MixW2 did about the same with a soundcard. Nowadays, a simple Arduino can emulate a KISS TNC, even. Still, it's nice to see old TNC/TNC2 like devices still being used. They can work on their own and do things like APRS or host little mailboxes.
Great presentation. I just acquired a AEA PK-232 and am starting to set up my station. A lot of hams in my area are interested in bringing Packet back online....
Thanks for doing this video. I really enjoyed it. I just acquired a couple of Pakratt PK-232MBX TNCs that an old ham was giving away. I bought a Yaesu FT-450D HF and a ICOM IC-2000 VHF transceiver to connect them to. Going to order the cables from Les when I get paid this month. I'm going to use the HF radio and one PK-232 to set up a 30m APRS i-gate so I can reliably get messages gated to APRS-IS from my portable station when I'm out doing SOTA activations, etc. I think I might use the VHF radio to set up a packet node, since there isn't one in my area. Tossing up between doing that and setting up a Winlink node, since those are thin on the ground here as well. What do you think? The question I'm asking myself is "why am I messing around with these ancient hardware TNCs when I can more easily use a software modem like Soundmodem?"
Build disaster recovery environment - first message 'get more beer' - I like your thinking - subscribed.
I did much packet operating back in the 90's using Mac computers. It was NEVER as complicated as your showing here!!!!!
I had a Commodore 64 with a packet box (I can't recall now) and we did keyboard to keyboard all the time.
Nice, Hank! You are wearing me down and opening my eyes to the wisdom of packet radio for alternate comms... I might be in the market for a TNC modem.
And thanks for the shout out on the Ranger! ;-)
Kantronics makes some good stuff! Jump in - the water is fine.
May need a bigger ammo box... lol
No such thing as an ammo box being too big.
I think one reason why Packet Radio isn't too popular at the moment, is
peoples perception that you still need a hardware TNC, and the complexity of
all the commands.
A TNC isn't needed anymore with the availablity of soundcard TNC emulators, that
use a data modes interface such as the Signalink.
I use the UZ7HO Soundmodem with its companion Terminal program, Easyterm, written
by the same author, and a homebrew interface.
Easyterm has a nice, simple to use, graphical user interface, which handles all
the commands for you. It also has a very nice integrated Personal mailbox.
If you are set up for any of the other data modes, it's just a matter of
installing the software, and you are set up for packet.
That should be cake to learn for anyone who ever used command line DOS or any of the many, many command line driven programs/software. The hardest thing would probably be the cryptic command line help services that define the command line option or switches, but after a few uses those should be nailed down in no time. Very cool and so very useful in a net down situation.
Thanks. I plan to setup a digipeater with BBS here on the mountain.
Love the old school packet apparatus. Still have my MFJ 1270b and Tandy 102 from years ago when I was doing mobile packet on 2 meters. Been thinking about digging out the old gear and doing some hf packet now. Maybe you could do a video about that? 😃😃 73.
We need to combine the concepts of 1980s packet radio with the larger regional service area of NVIS and modern digital modes with relatively low bitrates/bandwidth but very high reliability from forward error correction. MT63 is emerging as the winner in that category. This eliminates the line of sight limitations of VHF and it's also inherently QRP.
Does MT63 have error correction?
MT63 has forward error correction - so it can detect and correct transmission errors without retransmitting. The various digital modes use all sorts of different error correction schemes, and many of these methods have been optimized for the types of interference and signal distortions characteristic of different methods of propagation.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MT63
"MT63 distributes the encoding of each character over a long time period,
and over several tones. This code and symbol spreading implementation
is key to its robustness under less than ideal conditions. The MT63 mode
is very tolerant of mistuning, as most software will handle 120 Hz
tuning offsets under normal conditions."
AMRRON is using MT63 on 2m and 6m for their digital communications.
amrron.com/nets-regional-national/amrron-local-nets
Wow, that looked cool, Hank! I may have to get into that! I'm looking forward to see some more of that!
I will keep at it.
Fun stuff. Also getting hot again here in NW Ga. I like WL2K from the command like me better than RMS express. I love my PK-232s
I am wondering if you have updated this or not? I ask as im looking to undertake a project to make a much smaller version, that is also portable. Main differances is changing your laptop to a Raspberry PI, your 12v set up to 18650s with solar charge option and with 240v (my mains voltage). Power input still undetermined, but this denotes the size of the package obviously.
Could you use Putty instead of Hyperterminal?
Afsk is still widely used in siren systems. As it allows for two wsy comms
We are running A SET this weekend on Packet in Arkansas today and Sunday
cool
Thank you for the demo - very cool! What terminal programs do you recommend for LINUX and MAC operating systems? What is the minimum dollar investment for a setup like this?
KPC-3 Plus $200 at Ham Radio Outlet + Radio. I can't recommend Mac or Linux because I don't run them.
for linux over serial, just figure out which dev file the serial port you're TNC is connected to. Install the program called "screen". This is a terminal run application, so you will need to use the terminal for it.. For me, i'm using a USB to serial adapter, so the command I use looks like this "sudo screen /dev/ttyUSB0 1200". This pulls up the screen program, tells it to connect to the device attacked to ttyUSB0, and sets the connection rate to 1200, which is what my PK-232 uses. Some times, cheap USB to serial adapters you have to unplug, and then plug back in, and then use the screen program again.
The J command along with J S and J L give a list of stations heard by your TNC.
Thanks. I have not used the packet station for awhile. I need to get back in to it again.
Well aprs can do allot too. without the internet. But as a prepper I guess you don't like positions being known. Its were all the regular packets stations have gone to die I think. This is a quick demo video. I like how you left the audio . I love that sound
Thanks for the feed-back and channel support.
Very interesting. Haven't done much with my general ticket. Maybe I will look into this. Thanks for video
Thanks for the feedback. Note - you do not need a General class ticket to run packet. This was all done in the 2m band. Thanks for watching.
Wow Didnt realize Food Lion was still Around??They had a massive meat recall a decade or so ago and pulled out of Texas.
So this works with HF as well? And I am guessing you have to know the others packet address before you could contact them? Neat stuff I may have to look into this, definite prepping item for communications.
The KAM-XL does support 300 baud packet on HF. In the before times most HF packet was done on the 10m band.
Sorry - missed part of your question. The packet address is the call sign. It all runs simplex. In the old networks your would hop from one station to the next with V (via) commands. i.e. C XYZ123 V ABC123.
HF packet exists but is problematic. Look up Network 105 for more info. HF runs at 300 baud (except 10 meters which is 1200 baud). The various parameters also need changed so that packets aren't too large and that you aren't retrying before the remote station can acknowledge you. In some cases you may have multi-port stations that allow you to connect to HF from VHF (or the other way around) meaning if such a node is available you can take advantage of HF packet even on a technician license (since you could access on VHF).
Couldn't you just use PuTTY to interface over the serial connection?
Cool video. Few questions: what would one need to built a digipeater on the go?? Once a message is on the device can it be retrive without a radio, like just a computer??? It could be a good security set up between a base camp and reconnaissance communication 8)
You would need a radio, Kantronics TNC, power, and antenna. Yes - you can connect to the BBS locally with a PC via the comm port.
+Commsprepper maybe a video how to set up one is in order then. It's a great idea. Especially on my last ham fest there was some pretty inexpensive packet tnc 8). It would be like Navajo code breaker WWWII use something okd not everyone is aware 8)
can even make more compact 8)
m0hpj.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/packet-radio-on-a-raspberry-pi-part-1-setup/
How fun! Great demo.
Thanks.
What are the advantages of this vs WINLINK?
Love packet radio!
I have aall the cables and the Kantronics Packet communicator 3 Plus. I have the serial to usb cable like you have. How do I get my new Dell Laptop running MS Windos 11 to see the TNC ?
You need an old school terminal program.
@@Commsprepper Will Easy Terminal work ?
Does the base always need to be hooked up to a computer?
Yes/No... The Mailbox/BBS functions without a computer.
Thanks for this video. Might have to drag out the old TNC and have a pay. fairly sure not much packet activity here in VK.
Get it out, pass the bug along to others.
Good stuff! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the refresher!
Thanks for watching and supporting the channel.
Presumably this was done simplex? Are packet repeaters a thing? Can you transmit packet data over a normal voice repeater?
I'd like to know as well.
Yes - it's called digipeating over a digipeater. The station in my shed is already a digipeater with the Kam product line. When digipeating you enter C CALLSIGN V CALLSIGN. The V is for via. then it will connect and the other station will relay for you.
Yes - it's called digipeating over a digipeater. The station in my shed is already a digipeater with the Kam product line. When digipeating you enter C CALLSIGN V CALLSIGN. The V is for via. then it will connect and the other station will relay for you.
Yes, you have digipeaters as already mentioned, these are horribly inefficient as they are pretty much just repeaters meaning that any response (including acknowledgment) must travel through all stations. This can lead to significant congestion on the channel. Nodes effectively put you at their station as far as the connections are concerned. Let's use 4 stations A - B - C - D.
With a digipeater connection you transmit a connect to station D from station A via Station C and B. This takes time and if the channel is very busy can fail easily. Once you connect and an acknowledgement is sent back, the acknowledgement has to traverse C and B prior to reaching A. If the channel is busy at either station the Acknowledgement could be delayed and time out. This causes significant congestion. Station A sends a packet, Station B blindly re-transmits, station C blindly retransmits, station D then acknowledges, station C blindly retransmits (observing Collision Avoidance), station B blindly retransmits (again observing collision avoidance) , and hopefully you haven't run out of time before the acknowledgement gets back to station A.
With a node you connect your station A to the node at Station B at this point you have a connection to station B and the acknowledgments are handled for your station at station B only. From Station B you connect to station C's node. Station B then connects to station C, but station A is only connected to station B. If the channel is busy at station C and an acknowledgement has to wait, there is no concern about timing out station A as it has already been acknowledged by station B. Once you are connected to the node at station C, you then connect to station D. When you send a packet it goes to station B, station B acknowledges station A and your station A is simply waiting on a response from station B, since Station B is connected to station C, it then forwards the packet to station C. Station C acknowledges station B and forwards the packet to station D. The response goes in the reverse.
Now when the node system gets busy, let's say station C's acknowledgement wasn't received at station B in time, station B retries and stations A and D are none the wiser.
In computer networking think of a node working like this:
Station A telnets to B, then from B telnets to C, and from C telnets to D.
can you run a better BBS system than the barebones setup you demoed in this video?
Make a video and show us how?
Can you provide the contact information for Les at HandMade Products please?
Thanks!
hammadeparts.com/
Sure wish Paket would make a come-back
Could an android tablet be used in place of the laptop? It has USB out and plenty of terminal options...
If you can run a terminal program and come up with a comm port - then it should work.
So if I have Windows 10 what's my option? Do I buy Hyperterminal and if so where?
Check fire, I found it.
use putty
www.putty.org/
Tera Term & Ipserial (part of Outpost) are also free
If you have AirMail you can use the dumb terminal it comes with just like HyperTerminal.
very good. think I'm going to set one this stations in my 18 wheeler
Not sure that would work well. It would be hard to find packet nodes while driving. You could plot known nodes if you have standard routes.
For $60 used, to $200 new is fantastic...!
Moreover it adds far more security than voice.
Can the software run on a tablet? (this would be the bomb).
Are you talking about a Kantronics TNC? Windows tablets with USB-to-serial adapter support and terminal program should be able to do this.
Commsprepper Thanks Hank !
CP is the DB9 to DB25 serial cable straight through or null modem?
Not sure. I don't have it with me.
Just tried a straight through and it works fine FYI
Very few people know that Ham Radio Operators created packet communication and the BBS and the Internet
Awesome!!
Thanks!
Wow, so cool!, but how that we get the KPC 3 Hyper terminal File? Help me please hehe
Hyper Terminal is an old Windows feature that was removed. You now have to buy it after-market.
I very much want to be able to do this but most people don't know what Im talking about when I ask.
Bought a copy of hyperterminal instead of using putty that's the most hilarious shit I have ever heard.
Did not know about Putty at the time. Thanks for the constructive comment.
@@Commsprepper Anytime, by the way if you haven't learned about timeshares yet I've got a wonderful opportunity for you.
So anyone can log into the tnc and see all of the msgs in the mailbox?? Or is there any passwording?
No passwords. Amateur radio communications must be open.
they will only see bulletin messages addressed to ALL, or private messages addressed to their own callsign, not to other callsigns.
I like it. Nice demo. KI5FME
Thanks
Gday
Thanks for sharing this
good video. you should look at trying "realterm" it's free and many more features compared to hyperterm
PuTTY works and is also free too.
'Tera term' is another free, open source terminal emulator.
Would you believe 20 free open source terminal programs for Linux?
www.tecmint.com/linux-terminal-emulators
Cool!
Thanks.
sad but you are right very little packet. there is a lot of APRS in my area
I think it's coming back.
I'm collecting gear to get a packet system going in my area too. 145.550.
Packet needs to make a come back.
Commsprepper I agree completely. DRATS is a good thing too and has a lot of functionality.
🎺😊👍
Thanks.
I only wish they allowed encryption.
That's not going to happen in the Amateur radio service. It would be nice for some encryption to protect privacy when supporting first responder entities.
$60 is too much for a very simplistic terminal emulator software. There are tons of free ones out there and most are likely much better than HyperTerm (unless this paid version has vastly improved over the included ones on Windows.). I usually go to try to find a freeware software before I'll pay for one. Just saying.
Yeh... I agree. I did not know about other options at the time. Now I use Putty.
Interesting stuff, but other than the obvious educational aspect of doing these vids, why not just use a RoIP gateway?
Because RoIP needs the "IP" part to work. Packet radio uses only RF links for communications.
Fundamentally though, don't they both basically function in the same way? Yes, I realize a RoIP gateway uses TCP/IP and technically there are some diffs, but your modem is basically doing the same thing as a RoIP gateway (function wise, not technically) is it not? APRS or RoIP; you need extra equipment to "mo/dem" the data and either way, the "link" is RF. The main diff as I see it here is that a RoIP Gateway can interface with a whole lot more in terms of back-end tech since TCP/IP is pretty much the defacto networking standard now days. Basically, what you have the ability to do with RoIP is make a super-sized WAN. Besides the technical differences, it is the basic premise behind Cellular networks. I understand that digital radios have different restrictions/requirements for point-to-point comms, or relay comms, but my understanding with a RoIP gateway is that it turns the digital "IP" data, into an RF signal, then back again... much like the modem of your APRS system. In other words; with either system you are basically creating a wireless bridge/relay. My thought here is basically setting up a mobile WAN infrastructure that I can secure relatively well, since IP encryption is, for now, legal... unlike RF encryption. This would also make it really easy to interface systems such as a portable NAS, email server with chat system, other LAN infrastructure like security devices... the possibilities are endless. I hope all that make sense... lol.
+GraymanTactics they are nothing alike. In this video I showed how to create digital communications on a closed network with no IP or land connections - no external dependencies. Add solar power and it's even more stand-alone. Soon I will get into digital repeating from one station to another with a middle station relaying.
Commsprepper my point here is you can have a RoIP gateway, in the same form factor, as this system. I look forward to your video on the topic. Hopefully soon i'll have my system together and will vid the process and outcome. Thanks.
Cool - look forward to seeing your vids.
I'd suggest putty, it's free.
$60 for HyperTerminal? PuTTY or 100 other free or open source terminal emulators are available. Don't give those bottom-feeders a nickel.
I did not know about putty back when I made this video.
@@Commsprepper I figured. It's all good, my comment wasn't directed to you, but was in hopes that it prevented anyone else from going down that road.
How would this work with vintage computers (Macintosh, Apple II, etc)
Not sure - I have not tried but I assume those OS' also have terminal type programs.
Commsprepper,
Commsprepper,
Yeah they do, what frequency is used?
(Ex. HF, VHF, UHF)
Try putty, it's free and works great with any terminal based applications. Way better than hyper terminal.
www.putty.org/
Thanks for the tip and sharing in the comments. I will try it out.
PuTTY is awesome.
To learn packet radio was why I became a ham. Then I found out no one practices it anymore. I am glad someone is actually showing that this still exist and hopefully someone in my area will start to play with it again.
I live in southern California. There is still quite a lot of activity on 145.050. If you are into Linux, you can easily run TCP/IP over AX.25. That is a lot of fun.