Recording engineer, Steve Albini, on the making of Nirvana's 'In Utero' album.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ย. 2024
- Steve Albini talks about the making of 'In Utero' and his feelings on how the album turned out. This is extra footage filmed for the music documentary, 'Underground Inc'. STREAMING NOW.
For a full list of where 'Underground Inc' can be viewed, click here:
www.undergroun...
RIP Steve Albini 💔💔💔
=/
I'd book time in Studio A and just ask him to talk. Not _with_ me, just: "Ok, Albini, I paid for 7 hours. Say stuff." 🙎♂️
@@cubegleamer2155 most geniuses are.
Thank you for planting the idea in my brain...
i'll cip in for half!
I've sat in the Studio and Mansion at Pachyderm Studio's in Cannon Falls, MN where "In Utero" was recorded!!! Epic!!
I'll chip in
in utero has stood the test of time and, imo, is without a doubt the band's finest work. that is in no small part thanks to steve's production.
The lyrics are tuned so low you can barely hear what Kurt is saying the entire record
Ok, and now time will tell how many people agree with Breakbad's dumbass opinion.
@@breakbad9753 tuned so low? That's meaningless
It blows
A record that says Treble 5 Bass 3 or something like that... Come on
not Steve's best work though. man is genius & music is lucky to have him. lock me in a room with him & Rubin please!!
Sorry to hear he’s passed on… seems like a genuine person with real integrity… rare these days… condolences to his family and friends…
Rest easy… wishing you Peace.
🌜🌞🌛
We'll miss you, Steve. You were the most honest, thoughtful, exacting, ethical, no-nonsense engineers in the business. There will never be another quite like you. R.I.P.
Absolutely well said. Have never ever understood the flak this guy takes, he has said and (more to the point) demonstrated over and over again he just cares about making the best sounding record a band can make. He's turned down money and he repeatedly shows that the only thing he cares about is making incredible sounding records. Which is to say, capturing incredible sounds from great bands, from which come incredible sounding records.
Cause in utero sounded like total ass. Albini should have mixed it and eq it with a raw sound but not like it’s falling out of a garages asshole.
Guy was just trying to do the opposite butch vig did and try to impress kurt
@@en3525 I'm pretty sure butch wanted to impress Kurt as well... who wouldn't if that's your job as an engineer?
@@displaymsg Butch had to convince Kurt to do double tracks, guided him on how to record something in the way. Albini just wanted to stroke kurts ego on how the album sound should be more "raw" and less "processed" because Kurt didn't like how nevermind sounded. Your job as an engineer is make the best sound possible regardless of what the artist thinks
@@en3525 "best sounding" is subjective. Steve never fucks around with crappy sounds. He has a microphone locker cabinet that would make any studio on earth besides abbey road jealous. Because he knows his shit. Have you heard the stuff he records with non rock bands? He recorded joanna newsom. Listen to the record he recorded of hers and get back to me. Two people (kurt and steve) can be stoked on the way the record is going to sound, but Steve never had an ulterior motive recording Nirvana, Nirvana came to him with their idea for how they wanted to sound. It's well documented. Steve's position will always be to serve the bands wishes. As it should be.
Such a dude
Says it how it is
And leaves us with some great snippets of Nirvana behind the scenes
Guy seems like a total professional and very down to earth + a decent bloke. Nice to hear. Must have been good to work with as a band.
His girlfriend from some time back is stunningly beautiful. I don't know if he is still with her.
Decent bloke? Are you stupid or just ignorant? Just google "Steve Albini Pure Magazine". He should be in jail.
He seemed so and he was so
If I were in a band, Steve Albini would be the only person I would want to record our sound.
@paulsweeney70 Man, I had no idea Steve had passed away.. R.I.P, Steve. Hey, I totally agree with you, and if I had the opportunity to do a SOLO RECORD I would ALSO have chosen STEVE ALBINI.... wow. OMG what happened to him??? That's just such sad news, because I've forever thought (and tracked) the question - "What would NIRVANA have done over the years if Kurt didn't die?"... Now I'm posing that questions about Steve Albini. I absolutely love what he has done. And this is coming from a very experienced engineer/producer.
RIP Steve- to a dying breed of physical analog producers 🖤🖤
Gonna miss listening to your perspectives on music, recording and authenticity
Much Respect 🥀🔥
Relistening to the Albini mix now, it's not so much that it sounds less like the initial release, but more like what Albini excels at - brutally crisp, dense guitar tone plus bright, present vocals and tight, punchy drums. There's harmonic percolators all over record that are finally unleashed in the recording, and it sounds so nice. This record would have scared folks...would have been the right direction to go but obviously the suits got freaked at how raw and in-your-face this was.
@griblegreeble , The harmonic percolators all over it - I know exactly what you're hearing. It's GREAT, isn't it? And also, I am hearing that in the remaster of Pearl Jam's "TEN"... weird little moaning things Eddie does LEADING UP to the first word of the next phrase are SO PROMINENT NOW.... it's RAD!"
Steve is a legend! I could listen to this guy talk all day long....
Huge fan of Albini's work with Mono and Low in particular. Feel it doesn't get enough love in his discography.
I like Albini recording style, analogic and direct takes.
Those 2013 mixes are GORGEOUS!!!
It feels like you're a fly on the wall in Pachyderm; just taking in the waves..
I was in that studio in 2004!!! and the Mansion!!!
Yes it’s does - especially when Kurt screams on Milk It and Scentless - you hear the room - it is like you’re there
I love Steve's new 2013 version .. really awesome 👍🏻🎸💯 edit 2024: rest in piece Steve, you were great man🙏🏻
Tf the originals sound ten times better plus Kurt would never would have approved of the sound additions I know it was the label and Courtney’s doing but still
@@bluegrip3007it's my opinion mate...lol..chill.. you like what you like, I like what I like. We both agree Nirvana was a brilliant band yea..
I never met you brother but I feel like you will be dearly missed... Prayers for your family and friends.
Caro Albini a parer mio hai fatto veramente un bellissimo lavoro sull'album in utero, sentire quel suono mi fa riabbrividire la pelle
What I wouldn't give to listen to those Nervermind tapes.
RIP Steve.
Kurt wanted the Pixies/Breeders sound. That's why they wanted Albini.
And he got it with the original mix of In Utero.
The magic in Bleach is precisely its sound... the issue with Nevermind is it sounds too much perfect
I am so happy Kurt decided to not release the version made with Steve Albini. The definite one is really much, MUCH better.
how is it better you've heard it??
I love the energy captured on In Utero.
Your productions will live on forever Steve!
In Utero's best song and mix is Milk It, which is all Albini. The recording of every song is fantastic. That said, Scott Litt's remixes of the singles HSB and All Apologies were necessary, and they are superior to the original mixes.
I wish they recorded Nevermind the same exact way it would've been so dope
Problem is nevermind sounds way better. And im not trashing this guy for in utero being bleh. I blame the garbage lazy song writing. They put work into nevermind. Everything about is better. The sonic quality, the melodies, the lyrics, all of it. Everything is a step backwards with in utero which is exactly why it got terrible reviews when it came out and got almost no attention aside from heart shaped box.
This guy said the entire in utero album took 2 weeks. That tells me the band was high and didnt feel like working. And i hear that in it. It sounds like a band that got too much money too fast, too much drugs available, and too tired all the time from the whirlwind of nevermind. I know this guy is defending it. He worked on it. His legacy is on the line. This is not a good album. The songs are not good and just the recording quality is bad. He literally said all the vocals were done in one sitting. That’s ridiculous. No wonder kurt sounds like hes damn near dead on it.
@@trenken Kurt doing the vocals in one take is a moot point because Butch Vig said the exact same thing about the Nevermind sessions. He would do one take, then do another take to layer over it, and it was almost always the first take (which it kinda had to be because Kurt would blow his vocal chords out from some of the screamier tracks). Also I think Kurt himself was having "buyer's remorse" after Nevermind because it sounded so much poppier and polished than their previous work Bleach, and I think Kurt wanted to go back to more of that Bleach style, which is why you have songs like Scentless Apprentice, Very Ape, Milk It, Radio Friendly Unit Shifter and tourettes. To me In Utero is like a hybrid of Bleach and Nevermind, with half the tracks being melodic/Beatles like in quality, and the other half going back to their Bleach roots. I can't speak for Kurt obviously but I think he wanted to be seen less as a pop artist and more of a DIY punk rocker, which is why they chose Albini in the first place, due to the raw sound from his productions of previous Pixies efforts. Whether people love it or hate it, I'm not gonna try to sway you or anyone in one camp or the other, I get why it can be a divisive album. You can't please everyone, but I don't think Nirvana was trying to please everyone, they were trying to please themselves, or more specifically Kurt was trying to please himself, and I think there's a method to the madness if you will. I think when Nevermind got so big and suddenly the same kinda kids that bullied him in high school and college frat boys were jamming his music, that rubbed Kurt the wrong way, and so he went out of his way to alienate the fans that he saw as fake. I think the way In Utero ended up sounding was very much deliberate, and not just a result of "not trying hard enough". At least, that's how I see it.
@@trenken Also I know I wrote a long enough paragraph making my point but also on the point of "lazy song writing", you could really argue that for any of their songs. Kurt would usually write lyrics mere minutes before recording a song. Hell one of the best songs on Nevermind, "On A Plain", is an entire song whining about having to write another song. "Music comes first, lyrics second/don't matter". That was always Kurt's mindset, even on Nevermind. It really all came down to the production at the end of it all. What you hear on Nevermind and what you hear live is like two completely different bands.
@@a_nervous_wreck yeah i know. My point was they were not rush as an example. A band who put a LOT of work into their songs and albums. Big difference was they were not on drugs. Kurt was, and it made him extremely lazy and tired all the time. It was no surprise he didnt want to put the work in.
When i listen to in utero i really dont hear many catchy hooks or interesting lyrics. Nevermind had that stuff. It was only after they got big when he got out of control with the drugs. The drugs are why he only had one great album in him. And some will argue in utero is great, and thats fine, but I honestly never see anyone listen that album over nevermind as far as the great 90s albums. I never hear in utero mentioned at all. Its mostly been totally forgotten.
“Put out another happy, pretty record that dumbasses will like.” You’re a legend, Steve. 🤣😂🔥✌️
No, he's not a legend "My record is for cool guys, the other record is for dumbasses". Give me a break. In Utero sounds like shit.
so honest. thank Steve for being honest. good and bad.
if you read the wikipedia for the steps Albini took to make the 2013 remix, it's awesome
It's funny he doesn't talk about how the vinyl version is two records that have three songs on each side but played at 45 RPMs. It sounds amazing! It's the only way that I will listen to a In Utero.
How does it sound different
Just finished watching the doc, absolutely loved it
well that has just persuaded me to get a copy of the double 12" remaster . rest in power mr Albini ..
He’s not kidding about the attention to quality that went into the 2013 LP’s. They are absolutely stunning sounding. I have four different pressings of the album and that one is definitely the standard-bearer for what the band wanted and what those adjustment levels drawn in the original liner notes were aiming for. Worth the price all the way.
Recommendation for vinyl player? Would love to hear that kinda quality
@@benc4968 All depends on your budget - if money is no object, I’d go for a Rega. If you need to keep it under a certain amount, you’ll get more bang for buck going vintage. For instance I have a Technics SL-1500 and it sounds amazing, got it for less that $200 including the stylus. If you want new you could get something like the Debut Carbon from Project, but after taxes that’s about $600. There are also other styli to consider, so all in all I’d say a decent table would be $200-$500 to start. Unless you get lucky ;-)
@@BogoEN thank you!!!
@@benc4968 You got it. For an unsolicited recommendation, check out this stylus if you can afford it:
Audio-Technica VM540ML/H Turntable Headshell/Cartridge Combo Kit Red www.amazon.com/dp/B01MEI1H8G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_VHNW4D2Q64T6F5YXFDS2?psc=1
Albini talks, I listen. LEGEND!
Steve, it came out in the 90s and we all bought it on cd.
I bought both cd and vinyl in 1993.
He's right about the aggressive mastering, it sounded a bit weird.
The limited clear vinyl LP actually sounded kinda shit, for the reasons Steve gives here.
CD was slightly better, esp in the bass end of things.
@@cheetahcoats4923 This album has always sounded like the band is playing at the end of a cardboard tunnel to me. Even in the 90s when my hearing was pristine.
The only way to hear this lp is the 45rpm
DMM cut. It is simply KILLER!!
Honestly one of the best sounding records I own! Well worth the price
Scott Lit only remixed the singles, and he didn’t even change them all that much. Just a bit more studio trickery and polishing. I think Kurt wanted the sound people heard live to be the sound on the record, and that’s what they got, more or less, on In Utero. It’s one of my favorite sounding albums of all time.
Cant wait to hear the remastered edition
The interview was from 2013. The remaster's been out for a while.
I would give anything to hear Butch Vig's original mix of Nevermind.
th-cam.com/play/PLCXiYxxp1NXl3oJ8zaocMM_j_faBykExM.html
Check out the "Devonshire mix" versions on the super deluxe edition of Nevermind - those are the original Butch Vig recordings.
I think was what done with the record, after Steve Albini got done with it, was exactly what it needed to be absolutely perfect.
Perfect. This is how I am as well, I give it 3 takes and if that shit don't work then maybe it's not meant to be. This goes for all of it, vocals, guitars whatever. Outside of some serious red light syndrome (that's when you play perfectly in practice but then the record button lights up and it's like HOLY SHIT BEEP BOPP GRRR GA GA GOO GOO) which is common, sometimes those first takes are the magic.
I love it that he mentions Killdozer and Laughing Hyenas and Butch Vig recording those bands and doing a great job.......!!!!!!! !!!!!!
RIP Steve. You'll always be a legend 😢
love that guy.
Oh my goodness the world has instantly lost so much colour.. thank you for all that beauty Steve
Is anyone else a bit weirded out that he is labelled that “engineering guy” only? He was a member of big black and still performs. Sorry but, he’s so much more than just a sound engineer.
He has come a long way since songs about fucking
@@martinevensen406 But I love that album SO MUCH! It's almost his career highlight for me personally. I still listen to it. A lot.
just think of it as his 9 to 5 job
Just? Gtfo. Audio engineering takes decades to master..
@@AboveEmAllProduction no it does not if anyone was given access to steve albini's studio equipment and learned it within a year they would make pro recordings. It takes decades to buy the equipment and studio and pay the off the bank .
you tune a room with a reference mic then you know what frequencies the room has problems with.
I’m glad we have guys like this, to tell us what sounds good and doesn’t.
He kinda comes off that way.
I’m pretty sure he’s actually a really cool dude. But don’t be afraid to like what you like, even if other people think it sounds like shit.
Do you understand who this guy is? At all?
Jeez, I'm glad so we have Travis here to tell us what to do
@@epictetus9221 Question? Who's Travis? And Who's this Nirvanna? They sound interesting.
There is a glitch on the right side of a hd remaster from 2013 - heart shaped box, in the beginning of a song. It gets on my nerves...Like there was a dust particle on a master tape used. Listen carefully.
OMG, Albini was 50 years old in this clip. He looks 40 here.
What a guy! Rip master
REST IN PEACE STEVE AND KURT!
Sweet let us know when this new remaster is available. Because Ive never listened to inUtero, Nevermind was so important to me.
I love "In Utero" and it sounds great. But honestly I feel like the best version might be to listen to Albini's mix and the record store mix together at the same time. Because they both have small failures and successes at different things. The released LP hides too many blemishes and albini's doesn't always bring enough punch on the bass and vocals.
I have the LP that’s the Steve Albini version I believe.
Brilliant, just brilliant as always. I am, however distracted by his nearfield monitor speakers - does anyone know if they are B&W's (Bowers and Wilkins, a great British speaker company)?
They are not
@@lerrynhawke3375 After much searching, I have found that they ARE. You seem to know different
@@TheIllynow which ones is he using? I only know the legendary ones that Abbey Road used on Lord of the Rings.
@@theblackestvoid I believe it's the Matrix 805 model from the mid to late 90s
Blink twice, Steve, if you've made another version that sounded like it was initially intended.
He doesn’t need to blink for us to know the real answer
the thumbnail is classic!!
As a Nirvana fan eversince the early 90s, I dont give a shit about which album is sonically better or how one album is more technical than the other. I mean, why argue? I'm just glad all their albums sounded different from one another... and It would be boring if all of their albums sounded the same.
Rip Steve Albini!!
Great album.
For me, "In Utero" is their best record but I do agree with those who said the band should have waited to release such a "difficult" record so soon after "Nevermind". Then again, if "In Utero" was released after the bands' second or third record it would probably be nearing the end of the average listener's attention span cycle and it would have been filed under Nirvana's "forgotten" record and only heard by their most hardcore fans.
I'm Steve Albini and we're rolling out
1 minute ago
In the thumbnail he looks like a hipster Patton Oswald.
Imagine trying to engineer and mix the songs on In Utero to sound like Nevermind. Milk It? Radio Friendly Unit Shifter? Scentless Apprentice? That would be straight up WEIRD, the fact is Albini’s recording really suits the songs.
It's cool to see the man behind big black not the producer
Geezus. Nevermind sounds amazing and so does In Utero. I also wasn’t as much of a fan of a Nirvana until In Utero but the criticism of Nevermind’s production was overblown. Both fantastic albums.
Nevermind sounds fine if you only know Nirvana from that album and its hit singles. Compared to Bleach and especially compared to their live sound, the album falls short. It's a highly polished, nearly sterile sound that works well for popular music (stuff like U2, REM, RHCP, obviously Garbage), but it's not really the sound of Nirvana. Albini's approach is much closer to what the band actually put out on stage and in their demos.
@@davideberhardt6150 all a matter of opinion. I do prefer In Utero but, like I said, the criticism of Nevermind is overblown. Polished isn’t always bad and raw isn’t always good.
Goodness knows that some Misfits albums could have used some polish. 😄
This is great
When a rocket scientist has a love for music or just sound in general!
Sounds like Steve Albini prefers the Devonshire mix of Nevermind....a man of good taste!
id like to get a copy of those cassettes of nevermind hes talking about and listen to them.
I was waiting to find out which two songs they came back to remix.
Legend has it they paid their mate $1,000 to produce their first LP.
Butch Vig got $100k for the second.
Steve Albini got $1m for their third.
That means the next guy would've gotten $100 million?!
@@LocalCoot $10 million.
albini didn't take points on the album. He took a flat fee of $100 K. stop lying.
@@TimeWillTellAll You're right. Inflation maladjustment on my part.
Recording engineer, Steve Albini, on the making of Nirvana's 'In Utero' album. 21.11.23. Steve albino on...........starring in the Goldberg's.
Is there any online copies of the unedited Nevermind record?
Check out the "Devonshire mix" versions on the super deluxe edition of Nevermind - those are the original Butch Vig recordings.
I really need to hear the 2013 vinyl. I've heard the 2013 CD, it's better in places in and worse in others. The thing I that sticks out the most is the clean vocal on the chorus of Scentless Apprentice, really improves the song IMO. The original distorted version was difficult to listen to in '93 and it's difficult to listen to now.
The thing I find myself wanting most with Nirvanas albums is a Bleach remix with 2 guitars. The mono guitar drives me nuts. Maybe it'll be possible to separate the tracks out with AI and put it back together with 2 guitars
Are they B&W Matrix 805’s on the meter bridge?
I think they are
Huge mainstream rock band called Nirvana still selling as "alternative band" to angsty teens. Albini said the right thing.
I love how to Steve Albini a record with songs on it like Polly, Territorial Pissings and Something in the Way is a “happy, poppy record that dumbasses will enjoy”
He's not refering to the songwriting, he's talking about how it was produced. Nevermind as an album sounds quite tame as far as mixing and mastering goes.
@@Janruzalemyea sure, so songs like in Bloom, come as you are, Territorial pissings, breed,, actually the whole album rocks, people get too picky, its about the songs. Both albums rock, just in utero is more of a live band sound.
Agreed. It's a terrific album; way, way better than Nevermind. Thank you, Steve!
He appeared to be in full defence mode.
RIP Steve
must be nice to see Kurt again :)
that's not how it works
who knows what kurt would think today of that decision to change the albini mix or if he had been thinking in his right mind. The OG sounds great but I wouldn’t trust any label person or prob 99% of anyone who gave me advice that would lead to changing albini’s production. imo he’s the best there is at what he does. re-mixing 2 songs isn’t that big of a deal but I think the mastering process made the album sound more different than most people realize. Nirvana didn’t want a commercial pretty album but then got scared it wouldn’t be commercial enough.. bc contrary to popular belief, he definitely cared about what people thought and definitely wanted to be liked by the masses but still be respected by his punk peers. he was conflicted bc he cared so much about what his punk friends thought of him - that’s why he always wore band tees of smaller bands or covered the vaselines, had meat puppets play with them on unplugged. All that was to make himself feel better about “selling out” - and he said they sold out, those aren’t my words. And frankly I don’t get hung up on bands wanting to make money. But kurt should’ve had the guts to keep the album as it was bc I’m pretty sure he would’ve changed his mind as he always did bc he wasn’t secure with himself. That’s my favorite band so I’m no hater. But dont say fuck it we are making something we want and don’t care who likes it, and then get worried no one is gonna like it.
To be honest, there isn't a massive difference in sound at all between the final mastered version and the Albini version.
Agreed. Tho I do prefer the albini Version.
Not a nirvana fan if matters.
His mixes sound way more direct and live. I love the original but I’m very glad for the Albini 2013 mix / just way more natural sounding to my ears / love it
if you ever see steve albini minding his own business, please stop him and ask how he recorded In Utero.
Really want to hear unmolested Vig mix of Nevermind!
I don't understand the points he makes here about the length of the record and the sound quality, can anyone explain?
Super simplified: It only really applies to vinyl, but basically the more sound you pack onto a side, the closer and "smaller" the physical grooves have to be to fit, which leads to the grooves being less "perfect".
Even if you are Steve Albini, if you didn’t get Nevermind the first moments of listening to it you don’t understand music
the guy recorded Surfer Rosa YEARS prior, c'mon
What's this LP version they released he's talking about??
The original 1993 release. He's saying that back then when the finished album came out, he heard it on vinyl (instead of CD or cassette). So his negative opinion of its sound quality was at least partly due to the the vinyl having been pressed for mass market consumption without the proper attention to detail. So, sonically, It was a far cry from his master tapes.
Unless you're asking about his remastered version: In 2013, he restored the album closer to its original state, and had this version cut onto vinyl at the highest possible standard. So those records (on a good turntable) should provide the closest listening experience to those original studio masters.
Except that they did some really silly things like taking the cello out of “Dumb” and changing the solo in “Serve the Servants” to a different one when the solo Kurt chose initially is epic and perfect… but other than that it’s pretty cool. Kind of an audophile’s artifact more than something that provides much more value to the casual listener. I’d say at this point just wait for the 30th anniversary version!! It will play in 3D hologram performance and babysit your kids!! 😺
*WOW* ‼️
It sold a ton of copies also: like a ton.
lots of hate here for no reason- Andy Wallace did a hell of a job mixing Nevermind! It will not make you more of a punk if you hate mainstream from wrong reasons( for having a different set of skills ). Butch tapes would never reach to broader population without people like Andy.
Smells Like Teen Spirit doesn’t become as big as it was without Wallace, he brought so much power to those songs
Andy is a genius, and Nevermind, as In Utero, are amazing as they are.
Punks (at their worst) are really close minded.
Kurt Ballou reminds me a lot of steve albini
RIP Steve
Thanx for all the great music, and Corporate Rock still sux.
Nevermind sounds just fine to me. Andy wallace did a fine job.
Nope, u hear to Chaos A.D, Evil Empire....the bass & drums drown the guitar. Similar he did to this album.
How many interviews do you think this guy has done about Nirvana? It's gotta suck to have to constantly talk about what it was like to work with someone else
Laughing Hyenas! Detroit’s finest
Shellac’s At Action Park has moments of sounding like In Utero 🤔
Or vice versa
@@oub4a I only say that because In Utero came out first. But at this point who cares they’re both classics. God rest Albini! The best 👏🏻
Heart shaped box and all apologies remixes by Scott litt sound so much better than albinis original mixes which were muddy and kurts vocals were way too quiet
That's my issue with in utero. Thought it was just me who thought kurt was too quiet within the mix.
RIP Steve Albini.
How’d you record the drums dude? That’s all I care about
Phase align the microphones so there’s no cancelation. Albini uses digital millisecond delays to do this but you can also do it by nudging the waveforms on the timeline one sample at a time or using a phase alignment plugin.
One technique you can do is to move stuff around until it sounds as phase-cancelation-y as possible, then invert the polarity of one or more channels 180 degrees.
Also use room mics set far away on the floor and put them comparatively loud in the mix. Align everything else to them.
@@fl7210 it's very nice to get a reply like this.. thank u, i will treasure it, & use this advice extensively
@@fl7210 like literally lying on the floor?