What a textbook review. You are setting a standard for what modern audio reviews should look like. Very comprehensive and full of helpful information both objective and subjective. Great job Erin!
Erin is head&shoulders above the rest - peerless objective measurements & an ability to interpret & translate how the measurements interact with the room & our psychoacoustic experience. Erin also combines honesty & humility which is a sign of every true intellectual. No bluffing & no fluffing, refreshing & enlightening #TruthFreedomHealth
Well, if I “love” your comments then that makes me look like I’m being egotistical. So I’ll just say “thank you, that’s very kind” and go on about my way. 👍🙂
@@ErinsAudioCorner Give those hearts out. Who cares if some hater sees it as being egotistical. Anyone who watches your videos knows you are a humble man. Most with your knowledge and expertise would be so narcissistic, cough, Amir , cough but you are not.
If you still have access to these, watch for the speaker terminals and make sure they are not lose. I had a pair that kept giving me a resonance between the 200-600Hz range. Took me two days to figure out what I was hearing and running sweeps finally narrowed it down to the terminals. They were loose, couple with the banana plugs, caused the odd resonance I was hearing.
Respect for saying I don't know .....this is the only way for further research and moving forward...I'm fed up with people that know everything and all the speakers are soft analytical mellow yellow etc and they don't have a clue of what they are talking about.....thank u for the time and effort u putting on this
Hey, Erin. From your comment, I managed to find this review. I can tell you up front, I haven't heard a bookie that I like, which includes the KEF Metas, largely due to the limit frequency range from the small enclosure. I owned the ELAC Uni-fi 2.0 UB52's, which have the remarkable soundstaging you've referenced here. But one has to work in a sub to reach those missing lower frequencies. I mentioned that I'd picked up a pair of the UF5 Uni-fi 5.1 floorstanders at a helluva price. If you can get beyond the utilitarian cabinet design limitations - these aren't intended to be the most finely finished cabinets - what we're left with is that full range, well-engineered custom driver arrays missing from the bookshelf designs. Once properly burned-in, I was shocked at the low end extension that sounded tight, precise, natural, never colored or bloated. In fact, I often turn my doped-coned subwoofer off and let these floorstanders shine with the well-tuned bass missing from the bookies, as the sub (the ELAC S10.2) often sounds too slow, colored and bloated compared to the tighter, more-acurate-sounding aluminum cone arrays. If you need monster bass in a floorstander, you'll need to look elsewhere. These UF5's are precisely tuned, tight, deep, with a nice kick, but never colored or unnaturally boomy. As I wrote, I'm so surprised and thrilled with the ELAC UF5's at the price, I may stick with them for some time. Their balance and accuracy make competitive w/floorstanders at triple the price, and I've listened to quite a few in the $2k - $5k range. Jones knew what he was doing with the Uni-fi series. Easily, 9 out of 10 stars for me, at this price point.
Commercial speaker design is always a study in trade offs. I always imagine the variety of rooms speakers find themselves in and how your try to design a speaker for flexible and imperfect scenarios while remaining capable of a strong performance. It’s interesting.
Totally agree, these sounded a little thin for the first week or so, but now after a few Months bass is very strong, you can definitely hear bass goes deeper the DBR62's, it's also more tuneful and faster than the DBR's that these replaced. I pushed these pretty hard in my medium sized room (140w amp) and I dont really hear the compression Erin is talking about, but maybe my amp ran out of steam before that happens, but tbh who listens at that crazy volume for more than a few mins, I do hear "a little" mid bass resonance which might be fixed with a little added damping material to the bass/mid enclosure, but so far very happy with these.
Thank you Erin, Why would someone give you a thumbs down? I always enjoy your video combining your subjective opinion with real scientific measurements! FYI Elac in Germany was only a high company, Andrew Jones revitalized them with the Unifi
I really like how the concentric drivers on KEF's iQXX series were configured. On my iQ90 it has a progressively curved cone, so the curvature flattens out toward the edge of the driver and becomes steeper toward the tweeter, which seems to allow it to both project and disperse very well. Unfortunately, it does lead to some issues with near-field listening, but they're towers so that's kinda understandable. I believe their smaller drivers have less pronounced curvatures to their cones. Nowadays, KEF's Uni-Q drivers are a lot shallower, which makes them more versatile but does limit the amount that the driver can truly function as a waveguide. Not entirely sure what the justification is for this change in design, given that I've never noticed any aural anomalies with my towers, but it is what it is. I really want to see someone make a domed concentric mid-woofer using a ring radiator tweeter, since that's basically the only way that you'll get their dispersion characteristics to match up. Maybe something akin to the Devialet Phantom I, but with a ring radiator tweeter mounted flush to the surface instead of their titanium dome tweeter sunk into the voice coil of the mid-woofer.
Looking at the data at Erin's site it's a good design. Both, the bass and mid are metal cone seem to be well behaved. The possibly lower efficiency has most likely do to with the use of ALU cone on the bass unit as they tend to a bit heavier but also stiffer. I quite surprised they run the tweeter down to 1.8kHz without obvious distortions - the distortions rise in a few places at 96dB. I wonder how it fares side by side with twice the Elac price Revel Performa M106 2way design with the Alu drivers.
On axis or off axis, since the 8260, Genelec has solved all of the problems I know of with concentric drivers. I wish more companies would cross things over higher from the woofer to the mids, and get rid of air gaps or diffraction.
@@roger_isaksson Not sure what you're getting at, but Genelec does consider the room with their GLM software. Time coherence wise I don't think that's audible and if it is, having mechanically and DSP aligned coincident driver would be best.
I have a question, I have these speakers, I love them but find they sing louder. Driving them with 100w mono blocks. Would more power make for better low volume listening? Excuse my lack of knowledge just curious.
Just connected my new Elac UBR62 to my new X4800H. When I play pink noise I have ca. 10 dB (ten dB!) high peaks at 8500 Hz and 17000 Hz. Measured with my Smartphone with "Spectroid". Same for both speakers, L and R. For comparison, I connected my 30 years old MB Quart One Bookshelfspeakers instead, with everything else being the same. Here the spectrum is flat. Do you have any idea? Is this a flaw or can it be normal?
Clearly “not average joe”... Stereophile etc have a very cozy unwritten relationship with manufacturer’s, buy advertising space & you get a + review & HiFi dealers have had most of their profits in cables & other overpriced accessories - this would still be OK, had they been honest & NOT pushed ridiculous accessories & overpriced hype as the only way to high fidelity sound. Ridiculous “reviewers” & overhyped & overhyped nonsensical product, over time have damaged the industry as a whole.
@@Feliciano12v well I must admit I dont know who erin is/was before this. I certainly meant no disrespect. I really enjoy his work and the measurements. Ive been interested in hifi for over 20 years and have built several loudspeakers. And I can truly appreciate the value of the measuring equpment he has. I would wish the established reviewers did the same. Soundstage magazine used to have measurements done by the Canadas national research council that use similar methods as Harman Group (wich in turn is similiar to what this Klippel kit does). Well they still do to some extent but not as they used to.
Thanks for the video. I actually own a pair of Elac dbr62 driven by a Yamaha R-N803. I was wondering if the upgrade to the Elac Ubr62 would be worth it. Thank you.
I typically like adding 2-3db bass via tone control for speakers this size in my room. Do you think that would help make the 500-700hz "honkiness" less apparent? I know it was kinda inconclusive whether that was the culprit but just wondering..
New subscriber here. Excellent review on a speaker I am quite interested in. I have the new Elac Debut Reference but the Carinas are on my wish list. Love to get your feedback on those babies. Spot on review and thanks the work you put into it Erin.
I will be honest upon introduction to Erin's reviews I was scared away by my own ignorance. I felt like my knowledge base was deficient where the reviews would go over my head. In the beginning that was absolutely true. But I stuck with his reviews. Quite frankly Erin seems to have found an incredible groove where it is technical enough for the true Hifi enthusiasts but he has also put what he hears and measures into terms so even a simple man like me can have light bulb moments when listening to him speak. He has raised my understanding and enjoyment of audio. He had made measurements fun and understandable for me. Something wonderful and quite unexpected. Thank you Erin.
Hi Erin, I currently have a Yamaha A-S301 intergrated amplifier. Do you believe that it would be wise to use an amplifier with higher wattage for these particular speakers like the A-s701? If so are there any relatively accessible amplifier you would suggest, thanks :)
Hey Erin, what kind of smoothing do you see for this measurement on the ELAC Uni-Fi Reference UBR62 Bookshelf? It's nicely detailed from about 200hz and above. If you EQ'd this speaker from a nearfield response would you want to fix that low bass thing at 100hz to 180hz ish?
1/20th-octave resolution, per the CEA-2034 standard. I'd measure the in-situ response; you may not need to fix that dip if you happen to have a natural boost there due to room/placement.
@@ErinsAudioCorner thank you very much. You didn't happen to measure the original Unifi speakers did you? I'd like to see if my measurements were the same. I took a nearfield measurement using MMM, and then a MLP, and calibrated to a Harman Curve and they sound very good. Much better than the uncalibrated sound.
Erin I have question sir. Could the vertical axis issue be eliminated by putting the tweeter in the middle of the driver like a coaxial car speaker? Thanks.
Personally, I think the R3 is the better option overall. The one area it isn’t up to par on, however, is the soundstage width. But the R3 is also 2x the price of these.
Hi, Erin! So if I would listen them on 86dB (LOUD) on1meter I even can hear bass on 40Hz with 0.5 dB difference? I want listen them on 1.5 meter not on 86dB. Smaller. But I need bass
Erin - When you mention your listening levels like '80db', do you have your meter on "C" or 'flat' or 'A' weighting and do you use 'slow' or 'fast' response? Great reviews by the way!
@@ErinsAudioCorner So on a sound pressure meter that would be roughly "A" weighting (mostly midrange responding) and "slow" response (REW's RTA function). I was mostly curious whether you include bass in the SPL measurement, as bass will increase the measured SPL in a flat measurement, yet not seem as 'loud' as if the SPLs were mostly in the area where the ear is most sensitive (midrange).
@@rammisframmis8588 correct. No, I don’t include bass because I test and review speakers of all sizes and I want to make sure the volume levels are reasonably close between tests. I’m looking in the 300-3000 Hz region.
Can’t add what isn’t there. Sensitivity is almost always based on the lowest sensitivity driver. There would be no reason for a manufacturer to reduce sensitivity just for the heck of it.
What to use to set the level to, let's say, 80dB? Do you use music? Or pink or white noise? And do I have to set the spl meter to dB(A) or dB(C)? Thanks for the great review!
Really enjoy your reviews and you did a thorough job here as well. However, I'm a little conflicted as Ron from NRD (New Record Day) had nothing but glowing remarks with his measurements/review. Could it be the equipment and rooms used are showing very different results?
Great Erin as comprehensive as ever, pity that speaker commands an expensive electronic to match with that goes against my beliefs that in the rig the most expensive component must be the speaker. Very much appreciated the peek of inside the belly of the cabinet.
@@great100m double the power to get a 3db increase, youll need at least 3 to 4 times the power to percieve double the loudness. Thats a lot of fuckin additional power we are talkin about here. Imagine a needing 400w per channel to get it to go twice as loud from 100w per channel. Thats insane power (and money). Lesson here; if loudness is important, begin with a sensitive speaker. Just not Klipsch.
I can see why this speaker needs some power. Does it sound pretty balanced at low volume or does it need to turned up to come alive? Like I live in an apartment.
The only apparently clear way is "giving it a bigger box" following the "sensitivity/bass/size trade off" or "rule of thumb". Possibly when they make the tower version, I would guess. Reminds me of the car crowd from long ago "there's no replacement for displacement"
Yep. The new concentric is out of the "mid" slot. It goes to 1000€. PLUS, the cost of a new amp to feed it. 80-100 wpc will not be enough. Some people may drive it with a Crown 2502 until they save up. Makes you understand the people who buy BIG speakers that "sip" power. comparatively speaking.
Hi Erin, regarding your 11m15s comment about Schroeder frequency…. what you actually mean is the transition frequency (or transition region). The Schroeder crossover frequency doesn’t apply to small rooms like home hifi, and if you try to calculate it from measurements in a small (i.e. domestic) room, you get low values that are too low to describe what you actually wish to convey, namely, the frequency (region) below which room modes dominate and above which reflected sounds dominate. This is referred to as the transition frequency or transition region.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment but the Schroeder frequency is the transition frequency. I've always seen them used interchangeably. Even by Linkwitz in the example below: www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm Also, page 149 of Dr. Toole's book references them as the same. (I just double checked)
Wrong on both counts, I’m afraid. 1. The Schroeder crossover frequency is the transition frequency in large auditorium spaces, but not in small (domestic) spaces, where the Schroeder crossover frequency does not apply because it by definition is about diffuse spaces, which do not exist in small spaces. That is why, when you try to use the formula for Schroeder crossover frequency in a small space, you get very low numbers like 120 Hz, whereas that same room by simple examination of sweep response, you can see it transitions from mainly modal to mainly reflective at more like 300 Hz. The latter is the one you are talking about, but you keep calling it Schroeder frequency, instead of transition frequency. 2. Toole actually confirms all this, try pg 47 of first edition. Cheers
I feel 𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙣𝙨𝙞𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣 𝙧𝙚𝙜𝙞𝙤𝙣 is likely best terminology for such spaces...ie., home audio playback, modestly sized mix/mastering spaces. wrt; Erin's use of Schroeder, I new exactly what he meant. It's all good.
Amazing data. Seems odd to say that distortion is not a big factor as breakup can be very annoying. Why not report the distortion data since you have it?
I am always hoping that someone will do a side by side between Kef and Elac...that should be really interesting, since both use Concentric designs, but KEF uses relatively simple crossovers while Elac goes all-in on the crossovers...
@@ErinsAudioCorner I think the Q Series is comparable to the UB5 or UB52 since they are about the same price. The R Series is more expensive than the UBR52, so jot directly in comparison... would be interesting how they all scale up next to each other. For the price of the UBR62 you can buy the KEF Q750 which are small but capable towers (I use those right now).
That’s more a function of midrange surface area and excursion. In this case, I’m not quite sure why the lower crossover point was chosen. But it doesn’t seem to be a huge detriment; at least not at moderate volumes.
@@ErinsAudioCorner not sure but seem to me that a bigger low excursion 5-6inch flat cone coax and bigger tweet would make for better design at lower crossover point.. tho maybe would need supertweet for 10khz-20khz dispersion of the tweet.. maybe dome midrange low c2c with tweet is better design than small coax if higher crossover..
I cranked my uf52 towers recently and thought I blew a midrange driver....but instead I blew a cap on the crossover! Sounded great until that happened. White zombie on my emotiva xpa-7 gen 3. Lol
@@ErinsAudioCorner Not really, not easy to get to the crossover and instead of sending me a replacement crossover or cap to soldier, they had me shipped the speaker in to be fixed under warranty. (a driver is 4 screws and easy to ship for warranty repair)
The statistical average for a bookshelf is around 86dB. This is a hair above 83dB, so it needs almost 2x the wattage as your average bookshelf. Now, for a desk/computer speaker it’s not really an issue, but no one will get satisfactory sound out of these in a large living room for home theater duty.
Looking at the data, it seems Elac made something nice to the point of not being afraid to showcase their product to someone who will run it through a near field scanner and the folks who prefer reading audiosciencereview instead of "hi-fi" magazines which essentially became a joke at this point.
It can help or hurt. Depends on what you're trying to achieve. Generally speaking, positioning near a wall will help bass but hurt midrange. I'd prefer to sacrifice some bass to have better midrange. Especially if you are using a subwoofer. Hope that helps. :)
No disrespect but i couldn't care less about how you measure that speaker. I my mind the notion that you could uncover defects missed by the designer is ludicrous. I happen to own a pair and fell in love with them instantly, so sweet. Run them with a simple Bluesound powernode (new generation) and a subwoofer. Simply gorgeous period.
If that’s how you feel then this channel simply isn’t for you as (nearly) everything I do is based on data and measurements. There’s plenty of others to choose from so no worries there. But FWIW, the manufacturer has seen the results and has not refuted them. Cheers!
Well, when Erin & JoeNTell reviewed the Neumi BS5P, their results were not what the designer intended and the company redid their crossover network & DSP to make the speaker better. You can probably count on your fingers how many audio companies own a decent sized anechoic chamber, and almost none of those give you accurate bass below say 100Hz, so you need the NFS or you splice it with ground plane measurements (KEF has stated they do ground-plane and said it’s a pain as they are in the UK where it rains a lot).
@@homeboi808 You don't need an anechoic chamber to get good measurements anymore than you "need" a Klippel system. What you need are decent tools and an ability to make useful measurements. Add to that the abilty understand what the measurements reveal. Erin does a great job of reporting what he has measured and relating it to what he hears.
What a textbook review. You are setting a standard for what modern audio reviews should look like. Very comprehensive and full of helpful information both objective and subjective. Great job Erin!
Thanks!
One of the best, if not the best, audio reviewer on youtube! Great vid Erin!
agree
Erin is head&shoulders above the rest - peerless objective measurements & an ability to interpret & translate how the measurements interact with the room & our psychoacoustic experience. Erin also combines honesty & humility which is a sign of every true intellectual. No bluffing & no fluffing, refreshing & enlightening #TruthFreedomHealth
Well, if I “love” your comments then that makes me look like I’m being egotistical. So I’ll just say “thank you, that’s very kind” and go on about my way. 👍🙂
@@ErinsAudioCorner Give those hearts out. Who cares if some hater sees it as being egotistical. Anyone who watches your videos knows you are a humble man. Most with your knowledge and expertise would be so narcissistic, cough, Amir , cough but you are not.
No other reviewer I’ve yet seen combines his listening impressions with objective, repeatable measurements like you.
Love it, thanks!
Thanks! Very kind!
If you still have access to these, watch for the speaker terminals and make sure they are not lose. I had a pair that kept giving me a resonance between the 200-600Hz range. Took me two days to figure out what I was hearing and running sweeps finally narrowed it down to the terminals. They were loose, couple with the banana plugs, caused the odd resonance I was hearing.
Respect for saying I don't know .....this is the only way for further research and moving forward...I'm fed up with people that know everything and all the speakers are soft analytical mellow yellow etc and they don't have a clue of what they are talking about.....thank u for the time and effort u putting on this
Hey, Erin. From your comment, I managed to find this review. I can tell you up front, I haven't heard a bookie that I like, which includes the KEF Metas, largely due to the limit frequency range from the small enclosure. I owned the ELAC Uni-fi 2.0 UB52's, which have the remarkable soundstaging you've referenced here. But one has to work in a sub to reach those missing lower frequencies. I mentioned that I'd picked up a pair of the UF5 Uni-fi 5.1 floorstanders at a helluva price. If you can get beyond the utilitarian cabinet design limitations - these aren't intended to be the most finely finished cabinets - what we're left with is that full range, well-engineered custom driver arrays missing from the bookshelf designs. Once properly burned-in, I was shocked at the low end extension that sounded tight, precise, natural, never colored or bloated. In fact, I often turn my doped-coned subwoofer off and let these floorstanders shine with the well-tuned bass missing from the bookies, as the sub (the ELAC S10.2) often sounds too slow, colored and bloated compared to the tighter, more-acurate-sounding aluminum cone arrays. If you need monster bass in a floorstander, you'll need to look elsewhere. These UF5's are precisely tuned, tight, deep, with a nice kick, but never colored or unnaturally boomy. As I wrote, I'm so surprised and thrilled with the ELAC UF5's at the price, I may stick with them for some time. Their balance and accuracy make competitive w/floorstanders at triple the price, and I've listened to quite a few in the $2k - $5k range. Jones knew what he was doing with the Uni-fi series. Easily, 9 out of 10 stars for me, at this price point.
Commercial speaker design is always a study in trade offs. I always imagine the variety of rooms speakers find themselves in and how your try to design a speaker for flexible and imperfect scenarios while remaining capable of a strong performance. It’s interesting.
Yay, thanks Erin. I think the designer of the speaker says he designed it to be heard off-axis, or to favor off-axis listening.
FYI - I have these speakers powered by a Primare a30.2 power amp (120w into 8 ohms), there is plenty of punch and bass, quite incredible for the size.
Totally agree, these sounded a little thin for the first week or so, but now after a few Months bass is very strong, you can definitely hear bass goes deeper the DBR62's, it's also more tuneful and faster than the DBR's that these replaced. I pushed these pretty hard in my medium sized room (140w amp) and I dont really hear the compression Erin is talking about, but maybe my amp ran out of steam before that happens, but tbh who listens at that crazy volume for more than a few mins, I do hear "a little" mid bass resonance which might be fixed with a little added damping material to the bass/mid enclosure, but so far very happy with these.
Thank you Erin,
Why would someone give you a thumbs down? I always enjoy your video combining your subjective opinion with real scientific measurements! FYI
Elac in Germany was only a high company, Andrew Jones revitalized them with the Unifi
I really appreciate the description of linearity with respect to volume. That is something I don’t usually see talked about.
Most underrated TH-cam channel since it's conception.
I really like how the concentric drivers on KEF's iQXX series were configured. On my iQ90 it has a progressively curved cone, so the curvature flattens out toward the edge of the driver and becomes steeper toward the tweeter, which seems to allow it to both project and disperse very well. Unfortunately, it does lead to some issues with near-field listening, but they're towers so that's kinda understandable. I believe their smaller drivers have less pronounced curvatures to their cones. Nowadays, KEF's Uni-Q drivers are a lot shallower, which makes them more versatile but does limit the amount that the driver can truly function as a waveguide. Not entirely sure what the justification is for this change in design, given that I've never noticed any aural anomalies with my towers, but it is what it is. I really want to see someone make a domed concentric mid-woofer using a ring radiator tweeter, since that's basically the only way that you'll get their dispersion characteristics to match up. Maybe something akin to the Devialet Phantom I, but with a ring radiator tweeter mounted flush to the surface instead of their titanium dome tweeter sunk into the voice coil of the mid-woofer.
Did you also try maybe the Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52? What do you think about them? Oh and what do you think about nearfield use for these?
Looking at the data at Erin's site it's a good design. Both, the bass and mid are metal cone seem to be well behaved. The possibly lower efficiency has most likely do to with the use of ALU cone on the bass unit as they tend to a bit heavier but also stiffer. I quite surprised they run the tweeter down to 1.8kHz without obvious distortions - the distortions rise in a few places at 96dB. I wonder how it fares side by side with twice the Elac price Revel Performa M106 2way design with the Alu drivers.
Nicely thought out Pawel. This is indeed a great loudspeaker. And you should know what that is as you do great design work yourself.
This guy, I love how well works his review. Is not stepping there and blah blah his opinions, is facts, period - judgment is yours.
Hey, man, I appreciate that. Means a lot.
On axis or off axis, since the 8260, Genelec has solved all of the problems I know of with concentric drivers. I wish more companies would cross things over higher from the woofer to the mids, and get rid of air gaps or diffraction.
@@roger_isaksson Not sure what you're getting at, but Genelec does consider the room with their GLM software.
Time coherence wise I don't think that's audible and if it is, having mechanically and DSP aligned coincident driver would be best.
I have a question, I have these speakers, I love them but find they sing louder. Driving them with 100w mono blocks. Would more power make for better low volume listening? Excuse my lack of knowledge just curious.
i can t see why more power could improve low volume performance of the speaker.
Best speaker reviewer on TH-cam.
Ur a ⭐ Erin. Cheers,, 🍻😎👍!
Great review, thank you!
Where woud you recommend to set the crossover if one uses the wiim ultra?
I'm not proficient enough to read the graphs, but does it mean the speakers are suitable for desktop/nearfield listening? Thanks.
Just connected my new Elac UBR62 to my new X4800H. When I play pink noise I have ca. 10 dB (ten dB!) high peaks at 8500 Hz and 17000 Hz. Measured with my Smartphone with "Spectroid". Same for both speakers, L and R. For comparison, I connected my 30 years old MB Quart One Bookshelfspeakers instead, with everything else being the same. Here the spectrum is flat.
Do you have any idea? Is this a flaw or can it be normal?
Its kinda crazy that an ”average joe” has this kind of measuring equipment while the likes of Stereophile dont..
Keep it up. These reviews are 👍
I don't consider Erin to be an average Joe.
Clearly “not average joe”... Stereophile etc have a very cozy unwritten relationship with manufacturer’s, buy advertising space & you get a + review & HiFi dealers have had most of their profits in cables & other overpriced accessories - this would still be OK, had they been honest & NOT pushed ridiculous accessories & overpriced hype as the only way to high fidelity sound. Ridiculous “reviewers” & overhyped & overhyped nonsensical product, over time have damaged the industry as a whole.
@@Feliciano12v well I must admit I dont know who erin is/was before this. I certainly meant no disrespect. I really enjoy his work and the measurements.
Ive been interested in hifi for over 20 years and have built several loudspeakers. And I can truly appreciate the value of the measuring equpment he has.
I would wish the established reviewers did the same.
Soundstage magazine used to have measurements done by the Canadas national research council that use similar methods as Harman Group (wich in turn is similiar to what this Klippel kit does). Well they still do to some extent but not as they used to.
I didn’t take any offense to your statement. I understood what you meant, so no apology necessary. 👍
Shills gotta shill
Nice one Erin. A review of a good product that a lot of people would be interested in and can afford. Thank you internet.
Did you listen and measure these with or without the grill on, and/or compare with and without the grill?
Just ordered my ubr62 @ 569€/pair, curious to see how it will do with the x4800h, and of course with my room.
Thanks for the video. I actually own a pair of Elac dbr62 driven by a Yamaha R-N803. I was wondering if the upgrade to the Elac Ubr62 would be worth it. Thank you.
I typically like adding 2-3db bass via tone control for speakers this size in my room. Do you think that would help make the 500-700hz "honkiness" less apparent? I know it was kinda inconclusive whether that was the culprit but just wondering..
New subscriber here. Excellent review on a speaker I am quite interested in. I have the new Elac Debut
Reference but the Carinas are on my wish list. Love to get your feedback on those babies. Spot on review
and thanks the work you put into it Erin.
I will be honest upon introduction to Erin's reviews I was scared away by my own ignorance. I felt like my knowledge base was deficient where the reviews would go over my head. In the beginning that was absolutely true. But I stuck with his reviews. Quite frankly Erin seems to have found an incredible groove where it is technical enough for the true Hifi enthusiasts but he has also put what he hears and measures into terms so even a simple man like me can have light bulb moments when listening to him speak. He has raised my understanding and enjoyment of audio. He had made measurements fun and understandable for me. Something wonderful and quite unexpected. Thank you Erin.
Just wondering how long you break in your speakers before you do critical listening?
I've been wondering about ELAC products. Looking to get a good LCR set up for around 1500.
Hi Erin, I currently have a Yamaha A-S301 intergrated amplifier. Do you believe that it would be wise to use an amplifier with higher wattage for these particular speakers like the A-s701? If so are there any relatively accessible amplifier you would suggest, thanks :)
These or the polk r200? Thanks!
Hey Erin, what kind of smoothing do you see for this measurement on the ELAC Uni-Fi Reference UBR62 Bookshelf? It's nicely detailed from about 200hz and above.
If you EQ'd this speaker from a nearfield response would you want to fix that low bass thing at 100hz to 180hz ish?
1/20th-octave resolution, per the CEA-2034 standard. I'd measure the in-situ response; you may not need to fix that dip if you happen to have a natural boost there due to room/placement.
@@ErinsAudioCorner thank you very much. You didn't happen to measure the original Unifi speakers did you? I'd like to see if my measurements were the same. I took a nearfield measurement using MMM, and then a MLP, and calibrated to a Harman Curve and they sound very good. Much better than the uncalibrated sound.
Where would you cross a sub with these? (frequency)
Erin I have question sir. Could the vertical axis issue be eliminated by putting the tweeter in the middle of the driver like a coaxial car speaker? Thanks.
Nice review! Would you recommend these over the KEF R3?
I am amazed that the mid unit is curved to match the baffle 🤯
Personally, I think the R3 is the better option overall. The one area it isn’t up to par on, however, is the soundstage width. But the R3 is also 2x the price of these.
@@ErinsAudioCorner R3 better option ? Music, HT, or both ??
@@great100m either but within output limits. Definitely need a sub either way but especially for HT.
Hi, Erin! So if I would listen them on 86dB (LOUD) on1meter I even can hear bass on 40Hz with 0.5 dB difference? I want listen them on 1.5 meter not on 86dB. Smaller. But I need bass
What do you think about Focal Area 206 versus this one? they both cost about same $.
How would you say these compare with the Philharmonic BMR?
Erin - When you mention your listening levels like '80db', do you have your meter on "C" or 'flat' or 'A' weighting and do you use 'slow' or 'fast' response? Great reviews by the way!
Music, REW, no weighting, just looking at the spectrum an averaging the midrange area.
@@ErinsAudioCorner So on a sound pressure meter that would be roughly "A" weighting (mostly midrange responding) and "slow" response (REW's RTA function). I was mostly curious whether you include bass in the SPL measurement, as bass will increase the measured SPL in a flat measurement, yet not seem as 'loud' as if the SPLs were mostly in the area where the ear is most sensitive (midrange).
@@rammisframmis8588 correct. No, I don’t include bass because I test and review speakers of all sizes and I want to make sure the volume levels are reasonably close between tests. I’m looking in the 300-3000 Hz region.
Great review. Sound stage is so underrated!
I wonder if GR Research can create a better crossover to increase the sensitivity.
Can’t add what isn’t there. Sensitivity is almost always based on the lowest sensitivity driver. There would be no reason for a manufacturer to reduce sensitivity just for the heck of it.
Would an AB amp such as Schiit Vidar be a good pairing to these?
Looks like it has plenty of power and low noise/distortion, so yeah, I'd say so.
Thanks for the review. Do you know how it compares to the Bowers & Wilkins 606 S2 Anniversary Edition?
I do not.
What to use to set the level to, let's say, 80dB? Do you use music? Or pink or white noise? And do I have to set the spl meter to dB(A) or dB(C)? Thanks for the great review!
Music. Just focusing on the content in the midrange and watching the average SPL reading.
Really enjoy your reviews and you did a thorough job here as well. However, I'm a little conflicted as Ron from NRD (New Record Day) had nothing but glowing remarks with his measurements/review. Could it be the equipment and rooms used are showing very different results?
Would you say with enough power and potentially a subwoofer this is a good speaker?
Yes. Especially if you are listening at moderate volume and/or sitting closer than 4 meters.
How much power should my receiver put out to drive this speakers?
Nice.. Loved the balanced perspective between listening.. and verifying or testing for it after.
Interesting review
Erin you think a 2 way with a Purifi 4” woofer in ported snd a good tweeter can beat a elac
Probably not. Surface area is still king.
Awesome review! Will you be reviewing the center channel, UCR52? (Your review of the JBL HDI-4500 was super helpful!)
It isn’t in the works but never say never.
I guess if use this speaker with a subwoofer , we don't really need to worry about the lacking of low end?
Erin, at about the 8:00 mark, you commented that "I don't know what the crossover network is." What did you mean here?
I don’t/didn’t know what the target acoustical slope was or if it was even a textbook target. Meaning LR2, LR4, BW, Bessel, etc.
In Germany, were ELAC is based, the brand is known for the high-end models. Interesting how this is reversed in the US.
Indeed! I was not aware of that. Interesting, indeed!
Great Erin as comprehensive as ever, pity that speaker commands an expensive electronic to match with that goes against my beliefs that in the rig the most expensive component must be the speaker. Very much appreciated the peek of inside the belly of the cabinet.
I wouldnt mind if the amp costs as much as the speaker... after all it is the one that is giving life to the speakers. :)
Requires power to go LOUD. For my use, no way that I play 80+ dB
@@great100m double the power to get a 3db increase, youll need at least 3 to 4 times the power to percieve double the loudness. Thats a lot of fuckin additional power we are talkin about here. Imagine a needing 400w per channel to get it to go twice as loud from 100w per channel. Thats insane power (and money). Lesson here; if loudness is important, begin with a sensitive speaker. Just not Klipsch.
The measurements make them seem like Revel killers. How do you like them personally Erin? Are they keepers?
I don’t know that I’d say they’re revel killers. I’m sending them back since they are only loaners to test. 👍
I love your T shirt , thanks for the review Erin.
Good review Erin. I am impressed. Keep up !
I can see why this speaker needs some power. Does it sound pretty balanced at low volume or does it need to turned up to come alive? Like I live in an apartment.
It does well at moderate volumes. I’d still suggest a small subwoofer to complement the low end, though, if you feel you’d need it.
For me this speaker just needs a bit of extra sensitivity and it would be perfect.
The only apparently clear way is "giving it a bigger box" following the "sensitivity/bass/size trade off" or "rule of thumb". Possibly when they make the tower version, I would guess.
Reminds me of the car crowd from long ago "there's no replacement for displacement"
Quality review. Seems elac has another winner but subs required and big amp required.
Yep. The new concentric is out of the "mid" slot. It goes to 1000€. PLUS, the cost of a new amp to feed it. 80-100 wpc will not be enough. Some people may drive it with a Crown 2502 until they save up.
Makes you understand the people who buy BIG speakers that "sip" power. comparatively speaking.
One of the most speculative review I’ve watched so far..
Is a review of the parasound 200 integrated coming?
At some point. Problem is I don’t have the tools to measure the electronics.
Very good, very informative review. Tell's me things I want to know. Keep it up.
Excelentes equipamentos ELAC B6 é fenomenal aconselho vivamente este produto
We miss you on ASR
Does he not post there anymore?!
I’m fine with his TH-cam channel, it’s great content. I do love to learn !.
@@stevenswall he does
Your reviews are very informative,professional,great overall) tnx for your work. Keep it up
I run these on Vidar monoblocks and it sounds super punchy on a good DAC
Amazingly thorough and different review. So much good info. loved it!
As usual, nice review, and interesting thoughts about this speaker design.
Excellent! The best review I saw for quite a while. Thanks.
Thank you.
Diggin the thorough analysis 👍 Would love to see a review/ comparison to the Elac DBR62!
Hi Erin, regarding your 11m15s comment about Schroeder frequency…. what you actually mean is the transition frequency (or transition region). The Schroeder crossover frequency doesn’t apply to small rooms like home hifi, and if you try to calculate it from measurements in a small (i.e. domestic) room, you get low values that are too low to describe what you actually wish to convey, namely, the frequency (region) below which room modes dominate and above which reflected sounds dominate. This is referred to as the transition frequency or transition region.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment but the Schroeder frequency is the transition frequency. I've always seen them used interchangeably. Even by Linkwitz in the example below: www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm
Also, page 149 of Dr. Toole's book references them as the same. (I just double checked)
Wrong on both counts, I’m afraid. 1. The Schroeder crossover frequency is the transition frequency in large auditorium spaces, but not in small (domestic) spaces, where the Schroeder crossover frequency does not apply because it by definition is about diffuse spaces, which do not exist in small spaces. That is why, when you try to use the formula for Schroeder crossover frequency in a small space, you get very low numbers like 120 Hz, whereas that same room by simple examination of sweep response, you can see it transitions from mainly modal to mainly reflective at more like 300 Hz. The latter is the one you are talking about, but you keep calling it Schroeder frequency, instead of transition frequency. 2. Toole actually confirms all this, try pg 47 of first edition. Cheers
@@tnargs57 I got nothin. I understand what you are saying. But I’ve always seen them used interchangeably. Cheers for the reply and info. 👍
I feel 𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙣𝙨𝙞𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣 𝙧𝙚𝙜𝙞𝙤𝙣 is likely best terminology for such spaces...ie., home audio playback, modestly sized mix/mastering spaces.
wrt; Erin's use of Schroeder, I new exactly what he meant.
It's all good.
good observations and reflections on the construction.
Amazing data. Seems odd to say that distortion is not a big factor as breakup can be very annoying. Why not report the distortion data since you have it?
When you say on access do you mean toed in?
Aimed directly at the listener. So, if you’re sitting between the speakers then yep, toed in.
+1. Can't wait to read the review ..
I just saw this review, great job!
How does it compare to the klh 3s?
No idea.
I am always hoping that someone will do a side by side between Kef and Elac...that should be really interesting, since both use Concentric designs, but KEF uses relatively simple crossovers while Elac goes all-in on the crossovers...
Are you referring to the Kef “Q” series? If you are talking about Kef in general, then I did prefer the R3 overall. It’s just 2x the price.
@@ErinsAudioCorner
I think the Q Series is comparable to the UB5 or UB52 since they are about the same price. The R Series is more expensive than the UBR52, so jot directly in comparison... would be interesting how they all scale up next to each other. For the price of the UBR62 you can buy the KEF Q750 which are small but capable towers (I use those right now).
Great review! love the data!
👍
So this speaker with a sub would be fantastic.
Oh it is 🤩
so should we assume mid crossover should be over 500hz
That’s more a function of midrange surface area and excursion. In this case, I’m not quite sure why the lower crossover point was chosen. But it doesn’t seem to be a huge detriment; at least not at moderate volumes.
@@ErinsAudioCorner not sure but seem to me that a bigger low excursion 5-6inch flat cone coax and bigger tweet would make for better design at lower crossover point.. tho maybe would need supertweet for 10khz-20khz dispersion of the tweet.. maybe dome midrange low c2c with tweet is better design than small coax if higher crossover..
You gonna review the Q Acoustics Concept 500’s?
Great channel btw
Not in the plans but it’s possible if you them an email and ask them to loan me a review pair.
@@ErinsAudioCorner you know. I’m crazy enough to do that. Lol
Thanks man.
Yooo awesome review man!
Great analysis thanks
I cranked my uf52 towers recently and thought I blew a midrange driver....but instead I blew a cap on the crossover! Sounded great until that happened. White zombie on my emotiva xpa-7 gen 3. Lol
Well, that’s easier to fix.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Not really, not easy to get to the crossover and instead of sending me a replacement crossover or cap to soldier, they had me shipped the speaker in to be fixed under warranty. (a driver is 4 screws and easy to ship for warranty repair)
83db is quite good for small speaker
Please make s short explanation to compare with similar made by klipsch
Klipsch doesn’t make a coaxial speaker like this. At least not that I am aware of. Do you have a specific model number?
The statistical average for a bookshelf is around 86dB. This is a hair above 83dB, so it needs almost 2x the wattage as your average bookshelf.
Now, for a desk/computer speaker it’s not really an issue, but no one will get satisfactory sound out of these in a large living room for home theater duty.
i really like your videos, keep it up.
Looking at the data, it seems Elac made something nice to the point of not being afraid to showcase their product to someone who will run it through a near field scanner and the folks who prefer reading audiosciencereview instead of "hi-fi" magazines which essentially became a joke at this point.
Elac probably does a lot of measuring, so they knew what the result would be :) Free marketing lol
@@RennieAsh Well, measurements are an integral part of making a good speaker.
Is it just me, or is that response a bit coarse? Tonality its good, but its looking so grainy..
Which one? On-axis of a concentric is typically bumpy. Better ones do better. But they all have their issues to some degree.
In my opinion it’s better to measure on axis for the sake of comparability.
Agreed.
Positioning near a wall seems important from what I read.
It can help or hurt. Depends on what you're trying to achieve. Generally speaking, positioning near a wall will help bass but hurt midrange. I'd prefer to sacrifice some bass to have better midrange. Especially if you are using a subwoofer. Hope that helps. :)
@@ErinsAudioCorner thanks 4 the comment. The graphs show this? Maybe a video on this is needed. Love objectivity-driven channels. Yours.
No disrespect but i couldn't care less about how you measure that speaker. I my mind the notion that you could uncover defects missed by the designer is ludicrous. I happen to own a pair and fell in love with them instantly, so sweet. Run them with a simple Bluesound powernode (new generation) and a subwoofer. Simply gorgeous period.
If that’s how you feel then this channel simply isn’t for you as (nearly) everything I do is based on data and measurements. There’s plenty of others to choose from so no worries there. But FWIW, the manufacturer has seen the results and has not refuted them. Cheers!
Well, when Erin & JoeNTell reviewed the Neumi BS5P, their results were not what the designer intended and the company redid their crossover network & DSP to make the speaker better.
You can probably count on your fingers how many audio companies own a decent sized anechoic chamber, and almost none of those give you accurate bass below say 100Hz, so you need the NFS or you splice it with ground plane measurements (KEF has stated they do ground-plane and said it’s a pain as they are in the UK where it rains a lot).
Baixo custo e altíssima qualidade sim senhor é muito bom mesmo espetacular incrível mesmo garantia absoluta certeza absoluta de altíssima qualidade
@@homeboi808 You don't need an anechoic chamber to get good measurements anymore than you "need" a Klippel system. What you need are decent tools and an ability to make useful measurements. Add to that the abilty understand what the measurements reveal. Erin does a great job of reporting what he has measured and relating it to what he hears.
Top review 👍
ELAC concentric is shockingly shallow compared to the super large/deep KEF concentric
cool shirt!
I listen the music, no numbers !!
Cool. So do I.