People seem to think the only two types of writing are forgettable "epic" pieces and leitmotivic writing. You can write interesting, thematic music without it being structured like a Wagnerian opera. Also, motivic writing is only such a big topic now because it's all but disappeared in Hollywood. It was considerably more common and kind of a given when trying to storytell with music, because how do you storytell without having and repeating elements that interact with others? It can be subtle. The Elder Scrolls has a handful of repeating ideas and motifs and it ties the scores together.
I think mick gordon said something about how osts these days are supposed to be in the background and blend in with everything, and that they went in the opposite direction for doom 2016's soundtrack
In my opinion, game composers are usually the most consistently good music creators in the industry. Even series as long Final Fantasy have had some of the best OSTs. I think that a reason people have problems with modern soundtracks is the general reduced appreciation for orchestral music, unless it is very much trying to get your attention.
Heitor Batista. If you want that theory proven: check Hellsing vs. Hellsing Ultimate. Hellsing Ultimate is the definite version of the Anime, except for the music part. The orchestral soundtrack is pretty fitting but mostly forgettable. Compare that to the soundtrack that plays when alucard has his first appearance in Hellsing 2004. And while I enjoyed FF15 for what it is, I cannot remember the battle music in it. What I remember are the waltz and „Wanderslust“, just because they stick out so much. While I was typing the „VS Leviathan“ song came up, and I was like „yeah pretty nice song,but you can fit it into anything where you fight a gigantic enemy“. I think developer often throw an entire orchestra at the question „what about music?“ and don’t even try to condense it to the pure essence of what they want the player to feel at that moment.
5 days and no Uematsu fanbois who neglect the fact he was inspired by Elton John? And now that Bloodstained has released I can't just drop Yamane for cool points? Ah well, I guess Mitsuda is safe 'cause we're never gonna get a Chrono Trigger remake.
I agree, it is important but there are composers that have a style that stands out even among video game music. I think that this is one main reason why Kohei Tanaka is so popular in Japan and why his orchestral pieces were quite different from others in the genre. He made the OST for many games and animes (like One Piece anime) but his greatest orchestral pieces usually came from a single series called Sakura Wars (Sakura Taisen in Japan) which is very popular in Japan but never got much attention in the West due to a lack of marketing.
@@shivalah I don't know, Gradus Vita gives me goosebumps every time (I'm a sucker for epic music) but I agree that Ultimate's OST can come across as a little bit generic sometimes. On the other hand, I love Shine, the original Hellsing ending, and I think the jazzy themes used throughout the series fit the tone of the scenes quite nicely.
@@GameScoreFanfare That is really strange, come to think of it. I personally think it's because, despite gems like GoW and RDR2, people tend to associate western AAA developers to be more in it for the money than the consumer, unlike how many people see indie games, regardless of how true that sentiment is. Nintendo and other Japanese AAA publishers, on the other hand, consistently puts out amazing games, and people don't want to associate them with other AAA publishers they consider "bad." Hence why I've heard many people call Nintendo "an Indie developer with the budget of triple A." Granted, that's just my take on things.
I just finished the story of Celeste about 2 weeks ago, and the soundtrack is amazing. Some tracks are atmospheric, like the windy hills stage, some are unsettling, like the mirror temple, and some are exciting, like some of the boss fights. They all serve different purposes, and are remembered differently, but they do the jobs brilliantly.
Instantly thought about Hollow Knight when i read the title. IN a few years time everyone from time to time will have a deep nostalgia over the themes in the game's OST
Totally, I was anticipating the game's release (because it's Australian) and listened to the soundtrack the day it was released. By the time Mantis Lords came around, I knew the soundtrack was something special and would stick with me for a long time.
Phenomenal video, by far your best work yet. You managed to take a topic which has become trite in games discussion, quickly recap many of the popular arguments, and add a lot of new perspective from music theory and individual composer perspectives. It's also beautifully edited, with some top notch visual effects and well placed cuts. Thank you for putting so much effort into this video essay - it was a joy to watch, and I can't wait for whatever comes next!
Seriously, I can't understand how people can say this kind of thing when, in the recent years, we had OST like Persona 5's, Octopath Traveler, Crypt of the Necrodancer or Nier Automata just to name a few... Even Zelda Breath of the Wild. I know a lot don't think it has a memorable soundtrack, but the themes of the different Divine Beast were awesome! The one when a Guardian start to attack you is the as intense and stressful as it should be, and the town's music gives just the right atmosphere for the different places... I usually think the main difference is that, old game music way more... In your face? Like, I usually feels like the music was on it's own layer, while new ones tries to blend more into the full product, which can make it less present. To go back to Zelda, every musics are naturally louder than the ones in Breath of the Wild. Which isn't a bad thing, but can explain why people barely notice it.
I lot of people don't like the minimalist music in Breath of the Wild's overworld, and that's understandable (though I disagree), however the towns' music is undeniably phenomenal. Hateno, Lurelin, and Rito village's themes are gorgeous.
I think it's kinda when games got better graphics, and arcades are less popular (at least in most genres), the role of the background track become more of complementary rather than catchy, and so a lot of the time the track won't be very melodic, which means it's hard to memorize the music. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's certainty something you can only feel but cannot remember. And this, to people with little knowledge about how game music works, could be "it's not memorable, so it's bad".
The issue with BotW music is exactly what you pointed out. When a major theme does appear, like in a boss fight or a cutscene, it's great. But those events are less than 1% of the game. The other 99% of the time, you're hearing the same few overworld songs. And those songs tend to be just four notes repeated. Every Zelda game before this had huge sweeping themes and recognizable melodies, even in the overworld. So changing this to have minimalist rifts is kind of...jarring. Especially when most everything else in BotW was trying to revive the feeling of old Zelda.
@@maxis2k those events aren't 1%. Sure BOTW is mostly overworld but what is your goal when you are in the overworld? Go to the places that have the big themes. Also, having an overworld theme would break it's post-apocalyptic atmosphere. You only hear music from certain locations as those locations are the only thing... Alive. A sad music isn't also appropriate as it would be the music too late for it. 100 years have passed, so people are just trying to live their lives in this vast world where a lot of things has been erased.
I personally think that Celeste only have one great tune. The first level one I think. Red Dead 2 in my opinion is one of the strongest and most atmospheric osts in the industry. And some of the melodies are heart wrenching. But in the end, nothing beats Pirate Radio in Crack in Time:D
I agree. Terraria is probably simultaneously my favourite game and one of my favorite soundtracks. Morning rain in particular has a very special place in my heart
I think what makes your work so special is the attention to the story behind the composers. I didn't know about Darren Korb recording everything in his apartment. Little anecdotes like that go such a long way in making these vids so cozy. Great work as always man :)
Indie western games and japanese games do tend to produce the best soundtracks. But then what happens if it's a japanese indie game? >Looks at the Touhou Project Oh right. Yep, best soundtrack confirmed.
It very much depends on the genre. Many western games, especially open worlds. Are very forgettable. While rpg's and fighting games usually are very memorable. Side-scrollers/platformers are very random. Some are very memorable but most of them generic.
Is many the same as all? Personally I agree, a lot of western games provide forgettable soundtracks... thats not to say they dont fit in game but thats all they do.
Nier, Persona, Bloodstained, Octopath Traveler, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Trails of Cold Steel, Dark Souls and hundreds of other games still have consistently amazing and memorable music. I don't think anything happened to it lol.
It's really sad how many people will see a title, make an assumption of the video's content based on it (not an issue), ignorantly believe that assumption is correct without watching the video (very much an issue), and then make a fool out of themselves by making an angry comment that agrees with the video but argues against their imagination of what the video would be about. Have some common sense, people.
Look I love Celeste but I genuinely don’t think a real argument can be made that Undertale isn’t the best use of leitmotif in possibly any video game to date. The game didn’t even click for me as much as it did for so many other people, but there are very few moments in video games that hit me as hard as hearing final boss theme and realizing what it actually was. There are a ton of other examples, obviously, but even if it was just that one I think I’d say the same.
I think that's mainly why RPGs & Sandbox Open Worlds often get the most recognition these days. They often are focused more on emotion and staying in certain areas for extended periods of time. Staying in these areas help repeat a melody and make it memorable. People love Dark Souls and Nier's soundtrack not only because they have fantastic pieces, but because it's difficult and that emotion is associated with the music. RPG battle themes in general are widely loved and considered memorable because of the emotion, repetition, and potential struggles/triumphs being associated with these battle themes. Minecraft has an extremely memorable soundtrack due to it's fitting soundscapes, simple melodies, and repetition. I didn't say this very well, but hopefully you gained something out of reading this. (Xenoblade is a banger though nobody can argue there)
If you're talking about memorable soundtrack and leitmotifs, it's a complete waste to not mention the touhou series. I don't even care at all about bullet hell game, but the music alone make me squeal in delight. A few of my favourite one are : -Necrofantasia(mind the volume) -Satori maiden - 3rd eye (this one is classical music style) -Emotional skyscraper (this one doesn't need explaining tbh) And many more, but if I try listing every track that i love there would be literally more than a hundred of it.
that not a lot, some remix endings too use leitmotivs and also two lvls in the game, but this is more the exeption than the rule (for exemple you dont find remilia theme in flans theme not even a bit) But yeah, the touhou music is hella lit, like i said earlier Some of my favs, but with shitty titles UN Owen but its UFO Sad.mp3 Star from undertale but not in undertale and in a game Bethoven but it-s a loli Fuck you because of you i can-t finish my MOF run u mirror mountain bitch FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK Megalovania
There are so many memorable soundtracks for me from the last two decades, and from different genres - Sotc, Journey, Undertale, Inside, TLOU, Ori. Some pieces in there make me cry simply by listening to them again, or otherwise leave me in awe. I liked the point you managed to make at the end, that it's all about emotion nowadays, and oh boy do some composers create emotional rollercoasters with everything they can! Some people need to change their perspective: the stuff didn't get worse, it just got *different* . Great video, and very informative, especially the hardware section!
I think soundtracks can be kind of categorized by the impact they have during the gameplay or cutscenes, usually in order to alance out another aspect of the experience that's lacking (voice acting, cinematography, camera work...) and is the reason why indies rely on music the set the atmosphere so much (which I personally like better than the AAA approach since we're playing games, not watching a movie).
@@mikedusenbery6464 Yeah I don't understand how people sleep on the Xenoblade soundtracks. They are the soundtracks we would have gotten in classic RPGs had they not been limited by technology.
FTL Ori and the Blind Forest Dust - an Elysian Tail Subnautica FF15 Nier Automata Mass Effect Divinity OS2 Stellaris A Hat in Time Any Monster Hunter Game And these are just the few games I personally played. Honestly, the problem isn't that there's no good music anymore, it just gets buried under heaps of mediocrity.
It’s also a matter of selective remembrence. We remember the good soundtracks from back in the day and forget about the ones that didn’t stand the test of time, because they weren’t as good. Contrast that to today, we are living in the present and experiencing basically everything that is being created, good or bad. It’s current and so we’re still talking about it. It’s the same situation as boring people complaining about contemporary pop music not being as good as popular music of the past, when it’s just the case that we just don’t listen to or remember any of the crappy songs of the past because people didn’t care enough about them to maintain their relevance.
Yes, but music like Nier Automata has become more the exception (among others) than the rule. Most have become like Killzone or Darksouls. Yes, they sound good, but it is either generic action music that could fit any game, or atmospheric music that sounds like isolated sounds that do generate emotion, but don't actually tell a story and you can barely distinguish when a track ends and another one begins.
I definitely feel like indie games tend to lead the pack in terms of memorable soundtracks these days. Games like Super Hexagon, Towerfall, and Stardew Valley would be nothing without their fantastic soundtracks. Really I could go through my Steam library and just keep listing off indie games with phenomenal soundtracks. Environmental Station Alpha, Night in the Woods, Return of the Obra Dinn, Downwell...
Undertale has been mentioned on this very channel in its own video. I wanted to highlight some other games. Note that I also didn't mention Celeste or any sort of rhythm game. I love the soundtracks for those games, but they have plenty of credit already.
I think we need to stop thinking of "good music" as just memorable melodies and leitmotifs. Trent Reznor's score for Quake is one of the most brilliant OST I have ever heard, and that is entirely amelodic. The OST in Portal 2 is also stellar, although even that has some memorable melodies
@@GameScoreFanfare It's a better answer than "They have more instruments now so you're wrong" (with an implied "early game system's onboard synths aren't 'real instruments'" in there as well), mind, which I've seen before - approximately the equivalent of responding to "I wish Nintendo would go back to the Metroid Fusion art style for the next 2d Metroid rather than the 2.5d stuff they used for Samus Returns" by yelling "You're wrong because Fusion lacked polygons!"
@@GameScoreFanfare hmm you mean my answer? I agree that a lot of AAA titles nowadays have boring non-memorable or generic osts with little effort. But as you've shown in your description you're aware that indie games such as undertale and a lot of nintendo games such as Splatoon exist. So it's not like its gone, its just not the focus anymore in big budget cinematic experiences. Indie games have to make up for what they lack in visual options in other areas akin to games back in the era you talked about at the start. And Nintendo games have just always had that charm I think and never fully lost it.
Could you do a video on the soundtrack of I Am Setsuna? I really believe the creativity there shines due to the forced limitation of making all tracks on piano. One of my favourite modern OST's.
Not going to lie, this is probably the most interesting video (or even lesson in general) about music that I have ever seen. You know exactly what you are talking about and how to deliver the message. You tackled so many different things here and put it together beautifully. I wish I could subscribe twice.
This was a great vid! I've never gotten too involved in the debate due to my love of indie games basically negating the argument's reason for existing before it could get near me, but it was cool to hear how the process of game ost composition changed over the last 3 decades too. :D
I definitely think that the memorability of a song is due mostly to how much it catches your attention. One of the most memorable songs ive heard in any video game is roaming the wastes (mor ardain theme) from xenoblade chronicles 2. From the begining it of rabs you by the balls with the trumpet and doesnt let go until the night theme plays.
I was waiting for the moment he mentions undertale One can say about this game whatever he want but the Ost is and will still be among the best of this decade Very entertaining and informative video as always 👌
you covered one of the topics that has been bugging me my entire life. I was always too skeptical to actually talk about it with anyone. this was super informative and enjoyable to watch, you seriously need more attention! please don't stop what you're doing!
Ahaha it's funny, just after you described the way hearing the music from Hyper Light Drifter made you feel, that Oxenfree track took me right back to teenage obliviousness, voices in the static, and a growing sense of horrible dread.
Nostalgia stems from whatever we find integral to our understanding of the world, and I think it's beautiful to consider how even if video game music these days sounds so different from what many of us once knew, today's soundtracks will breed new memories and new creativity for future players.
Ys VIII's OST is one of the most astounding soundtracks in recent memory, especially its first level theme, Sunshine Coastline. I do agree limitation breeds creativity, a lot, but those composers who learned to make standout tracks from very little when it was all they had haven't gone anywhere.
They kind of have though. You get occasional tracks from the OGs, like the few Kondo did for Super Mario Odyssey. But there's barely anyone who got started in the 80s who are still making entire game soundtracks, most of them are now in supervisory roles. The only one I can think of still doing full scores is Yoko Shimomura.
@@GameScoreFanfare The thing is Falcom still has Hayato Sonoda (Legend at composing memorable atmospheric/location music [eg. Parm, the Spinning Town]), Takahiro Unisuga (Absolute legend Uematsu-tier composer; he is the one who composed Sunshine Coastline) and Yukihiro Jindo (Another legend; outsourced but has worked with Falcom for ages now. Specializes in epic orchestral compositions and techno tracks). Their music have been plagued by Singa a bit (I'm only talking about Hajimari no kiseki & CS4) but overall score is still done mostly by the legendary composers Falcom hinted that their next game will have more Unisuga tracks.
When I hear this complaint I just ask them if they know the Elder Scrolls theme, or the Halo theme, or the Witcher theme. It's such a none issue, like Bloodborne has a wicked memorable & distinct soundtrack, I wouldn't sacrifice that atmosphere for a few more melodies, or the beautiful introduction to Rapture in Bioshock, much less the intro to Columbia in Infinite. I seriously don't understand where people are getting the notion that music has gotten weaker or worse with time, I wouldn't trade any of my favorite soundtracks of the last 10 years to relive the music of the last 30, except the original Pokemon soundtrack, that shit is engraved in the folds of my brain so deep, nothing can replace it.
I really enjoyed this video. I love how fair you were in describing the different influences that impact current soundtracks. I think conversations like this help creators continue to make wonderful music. Especially that last section about emotion. Excellent.
great vid! made me think of how my favourite moments from playing fire emblem: three houses was all linked to music: "chasing daybreak" for post-time skip; "shambala" (the dubstep track) for confronting those who slither in the dark; "apex of the world" for confronting edelgard. just bangers all over that brought me to youtube to try to revisit those tracks
Of course the melodies of bland and uninspired triple a games from ubi or rockstar sound like that. But then we get masterpieces like nier: automata, persona 5 or xenoblade 2 and it balances out.
Saying that Ubisoft and Rockstar's music is bland or uninspired seems awfully closed-minded. Red Dead Redemption 2's soundtrack is moving, memorable, and gorgeous. Assassin's Creed IV has a great soundtrack, too.
Even GTA V has some memorable tracks, just dare to say you can't identify/remember the characteristic track that uses to play while flying! I think it's more of a question of style and not inspiration, although I can't negate that also plays a big role.
@@shing02 I honestly think thats a case of picking what you're looking for. Triple A soundtracks from the west are still fantastic pretty often, destiny, Journey, Skyrim, Fallout are just a few examples. As someone else mentioned calling Ubisoft and Rockstar in particular uninspired is iffy, on one hand I don't remember literally any music from GTA V, but I don't believe music needs to be memorable; but rather emotionally fitting and impactful. I've that that Red Dead Redeption 2's soundtrack is excellent, but I've not played it; as for ubisoft, the Assassins Creed Franchise (especially Black Flag) is consistently fantastic, emotionally impactful, and moderately memorable as well. Hell even multiplayer games have managed to have a modicum of good music which is especially difficult, but with the map themes and main menu themes from Overwatch, being so iconic and recognizable while fitting the games tone perfectly. I think this is a case of people really looking for things to match their opinion, the way people say all pop music sucks, but if you ask for a reason why they'll usually not reply, and if they do it'll be something something four chords without actually showing understanding for why the four chords are necessarily bad. It's easy to say that western triple a music is uninspired, but criticism like that isn't constructive, and thus, useless.
Persona 5 Royal's "I Believe" is incredibly memorable and recognizeable even from its first beats alone, despite literally only playing twice in an entire playthough-- on the way to the final boss, and landing the final blow. In fact, you might never even hear the full song, as both sections it plays in can be ended long before the song is finished. Everything from its composition, the lyrics, its theme, its melody, the timing of when it plays in the story, it all serves to evoke a certain feeling that, after hearing it the first time on the way to the final boss, you'll feel the same way any other time you hear it afterward. It's a masterpiece.
Good grief, do I give the "You're just not looking hard enough" answer often, as even I continue to be surprised by what's out there, old & new. AMID EVIL, Bastion, Black Mesa, Destiny (Especially Music of the Spheres), Dust: An Elysian Tail, DUSK, Enter the Gungeon, Journey, Ori & The Blind Forest, Risk of Rain, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, Wolfenstein: The New Saga (Mick Gordon sure knew how to get my tears spilling as much as my blood boiling with The New Order & The Old Blood!) & so much more out there are just hitting holes-in-one on my 'course' (Even Bear McCreary had some nice stuff made for Dark Void & SOCOM 4 prior to his God of War [PS4] gig), then there are such series as Ryu ga Gotoku/Yakuza, Ace Combat & many more (I hear Sonic the Hedgehog largely doesn't struggle to deliver musically either) consistently creating themes people create so many positive associations with. Not to mention I've heard some fantastic work made for community projects ('Gravity' by Robbie "Scias" Johnson for Halo SPV3 may be an all-time favourite fan-tune for the Halo franchise, with Jafet Meza & gang making some swell stuff for Installation 01). We're definitely in a time when composers are more keen to hit their best notes at the rightful moments rather than for a consistent length of time as well as letting the sound designers work the ambience. TLoZ: Breath of the Wild spacing out it's music outside of the Hyrule Plains, The Last of Us largely waiting for it's moment to provide emotional punctuation, DOOM & more working in their music layer after layer (What Mitsuhiro Kitadani pulled off with the in-game use of 'LRSSG Briefing IV' for Ace Combat 7 was one special surprise) & so forth. But I'd definitely say there's still plenty of memorable music to be found even from some of the most recent releases. It just might be that not all of it's put front & center at the title screen (Xenoblade Chronicles, The Walking Dead: Season Two, Tales from the Borderlands & Enter the Gungeon are examples I can name that certainly do) or played on a consecutively catchy loop.
Might as well retroactively mention nu-Prey as well (Raphael Colantonio, Matt Piersall & Ben Crossbones certainly had quite the additions to Mick Gordon's contributions). And to add to the mention of community projects, I can all-too easily suggest tunes from Zera: Myths Awaken (Previously Sypro: Myths Awaken, but a C&D from Activision had them adapt to an Original IP) such as 'Canvas Falls', beauties for total conversation mod Sonic Gaiden such as 'Rainy Plateaus Zone Act 1 & Act 2' & 'Dream Mountain Zone Act 1' as well as what's so far been recently released for Boreal Alpyh with 'An Unrelenting Threat' a favourite pick (Their 'Hazardous Environments (Remix)' is a proper good one though).
@@commanderleo I only used two examples because those are the first ones that come to mind, being two of my favourite games. Hotline miami has a fucking amazing soundtrack, and there are plenty of other games with similarly amazing soundtracks. I coulda mentioned katana zero, doom 2016/eternal, hades, persona 5, ghostrunner, and many others. It was just a quick comment.
Thank you! I’ve been watching you for a while and your videos have been great but this one really takes the cake. Also I definitely agree- modern scores aren’t worse but they often mean different things- working towards bolstering a mood or teaching a mechanic (think Zelda). The part about making a “memorable” soundtrack really hit me- that’s interesting that game scores are sometimes “designed for memorableness”
That final touch before the summery really clicks with how I feel, and love, modern game music(hyper light drifter, hollow knight, etc). No track from the game plays in my head when I think of them, just the feeling I got. And when I listen to the music from the game I get a wave of memories of events and feelings I get from the game and exploring their world. Although the original Mario soundtrack was memorable, I don't feel like it carries the same weight as these games, as most games now. Most games now really strive for greatness.
It's impressive just how much a game's soundtrack can influence a player's experience. Stickerbrush Symphony from Donkey Kong Country 2 is my favorite soundtrack (Grimm/Nightmare King Grimm from Hollow Knight probably being a close second). I played the levels that had it over and over again JUST to keep hearing that song and, years later, I didn't remember its name but it never really got off my mind, so it was easy to find it again. I've heard it so many times, but I still love it so freaking much
Nier Automata has a very memorable soundtrack with my favorites being possessed by disease and Bipolar nightmare. Dragons dogma has clash of fates, coils of light and into free before licensing issues.
I remember getting into video game music with Kirby 64. I loved the mechanical sounds and the sad tone of the Factory level, I liked the desperate music of Zero-two, I also loved the silly electronic music of the Pyramid. Then my love of gaming music grew and grew even to modern music. The dragons' theme in Breath of the Wild, the "OH CRAP RUN NOW OR YOU'RE GOING TO DIE BECAUSE YOU FORGOT TO SCROUNGE FOR SHIELDS!!" piano of the Guardians in the same game, almost all the Splatoon music (heck, I try to sing the "lyrics" to most of them. So imagine me on a bus just suddenly trying to "sing" Blitz It), Undertale's music is definitely very memorable, and I dance to Cadence of Hyrule's music. But yeah, i think it just depends on the artist, game genre, and most importantly the musical taste of the listener. I grew up with a variety of genres with electronic becoming dominant (My love of the Pyramid theme vs the Splatoon soundtrack). Though I also love songs that give that feeling of urgency (Zero-Two vs Guardians).
@@Lunaryse *** NIER SPOILER ALERT ** FInished 9S campain 5 minutes ago and... WoW. Everything in Nier is so incredible. Hope it will keep that interesting till the very end. (sorry abour the poor language =P)
Music as a whole has definitely shaped me as a musician, but old-school video game music is what defined me as a musician. The theme song for Turrican II is a fantastic example of what I absolutely love with old game music. It alone has given me so much inspiration and that's just counting one singular song out of hundreds upon hundreds of fantastic pieces I have listened to over the years! I may have been born in late 1997, but I very much got to grow up mainly with games from the 80's and 90's. I am grateful for this as I have an appreciation and love for those eras of games - and in turn their music - which I truly doubt I'd ever gotten had I been born later when the melody-heavy electronic video game music had stopped being the mainstream whereas orchestral as well as techno and dubstep took its place...
I remember seeing an Extra Credits video on this topic. Would love to see your views on this topic. ^_^ *cue dramatic pressing of the play button, to resume the video.
I was at a Pax East panel about video game music composition a few years ago and during the Q&A session I asked one the panel if character themes were dead. They tried to talk to me like I was stupid. I'm glad you made this video to edify what I was thinking.
Yeah, the conversation makes it seem so black and white. People have opinions and you are of one of the other. But I think it's a bit more complex than that, you can't paint all of VGM with one brush, and there are reasons why we see some more theme driven scores and other ones go in a more atmospheric direction.
I really hope you make a video on Persona 5’s, the Persona series’s, or even Atlus’s games’ OST. I absolutely love P4 and 5’s soundtrack and would love to hear what you have to say about it.
Interesting choice ending on an Oxenfree piece. It's one of my favorite games of the decade and it has a pretty strong soundtrack despite not being a melody-palooza like games in the '90s often were. I also appreciate the deep cut of showing Lightning Returns footage--not many people know that game, but the whole XIII trilogy has good music. And, yeah. Undertale. Basically a proof-of-concept that melodies were much more prominent back in the '90s, and that we can still make soundtracks like that today if we want to. By reducing the aural photorealism ("auralrealism"?) and ambient background noise, and focusing on more distinctive sounds / instruments / timbres, you can make a melody stand out much more prominently. All you need at that point is a catchy melodic idea. (Which I would argue is actually the hardest aspect of music to master. Rhythm and harmonies are a lot easier to sidle or analyze your way into. But a good melody is visceral and on some level requires inspiration.)
Great comment which I entirely agree with. But I did want to mention, the main reason I chose the Lightning Returns clip was because I was talking about time constraints, and I loved the matching of me saying "composers are brought onto projects late in the development cycle" with Lightning being like "only thirteen days to go." Makes me giggle every single time. 😄
The Midnight Wood (the song playing towards the end when showing Hyper Light Drifter) is one of my favorite game songs ever. I found the melody to be extremely memorable, but I think the main reason I remember it so much is the emotion behind it. It's a song that somehow manages to be unsettling and peaceful, and I love the way it builds.
But here I am with Titania' Theme (What Angel Wakes Me) from FFXIV : Shadowbringers still stuck in my head. Make it stop. *plays Rak'Tika Greatwood Theme instead*
Soken's talent and contribution to FFXIV cannot be overstated. It's a huge responsability to be in charge of a Final Fantasy soundtrack, and Soken delivers.
I've had the melody from the lvl 80 dungeon (being vague to avoid spoilers) going through my head for days... Soken has really nailed the melodic style and Shadowbringers is so full of juicy melodies that he milked for so many great moments. Loved it.
This video is a perfect example of why I love video game music, through and through. Also, Beacon Beach at the end there hit me like a truck. Keep being awesome, and thank you for this video.
@Game Score Fanfare That’s the second time I’ve mixed up those two LOL. I’m also extremely excited for Afterparty as well, with OXENFREE already being my favorite game I’ve ever played!
I was ready to go ham on you with that title but you got me good. I think this is up there with your best work! My favourite modern ost is currently The Last Guardian. I hope you give it a listen one day.
@@GameScoreFanfare You're right, the team just make outstanding labours of love each time. There's something so sweeping and beautiful about TLG suite that moves me to tears even 2-3 after playing the game.
I tend to gravitate towards melodic focused music in video games, though I suspect that's because I tend to gravitate towards 'simple fun' which lends itself towards simpler musical structures, which melodic focused music tends to be - There's a reason we don't start kids off with music built out of complicated harmonies that generate a soothing soundscape when first exposing them to music, but to simple tunes that often have a single, simple, melody line and not much else going on. I might feel differently if I gravitated towards more cinematic games (And tend to prefer ambience focused soundtracks for film and television score), and while in general I prefer melodic focused game soundtracks, I wouldn't want most exploration focused games to focus on melody, since... If I'm going to be searching an area for a few hours (And exploration focused games are the other sort of game I tend to gravitate to) I probably don't want melodic music for that. But, hey, I'm the sort of person who once attended a concert performances of a suite of duets composed 'for c64 and piano' (also a series of pieces composed for bespoke 1-bit synthesizers by a different composer at the same performance), so... My tastes aren't exactly going to be typical.
u ever listened to any touhou soundtracks? I'd recommend Imperishable Night for melodic stuff and Subterranean Animism/Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom/Violet Detector for harmonically funky stuff
@@slimeinc.3822 IKR the differences of style between the early touhou and touhou 12,14,and 15 is really apparent, it really is impressive considering all of them are done by a single person (our lord and saviour ZUN) On a side note my favourites in no particular order are touhou 7(PCB),8(IN),10(MOF),12(UFO),and 15(LOLK) though SA is close to them. Edit1: forgot UFO is actually the 12th touhou LOL, i always got it and ten desires backward
In my opinion the most memorable music theme ever is Woodtick in Monkey Island 2 - Le Chuck's Revenge. It adapts itself perfectly, changing depending on the place you're visiting. And also the Special Edition managed to modernize it well, making it fully orchestrated instead of MIDI, but retaining the interactivity. More games should have music like that.
Things that modern game music is missing (for the most part): Melody, as you mentioned, rhythm, and periodicity. What stood out to me about the samples you played from the older games was they always had a beat and some overall texture, accomplished by syncopation and/or a chord progression. The newer game music TENDS to be more ambient and lack these feature. Here's what I'd attribute that to: Limitations, as you mentioned. But more specifically, the older games were segmented into smaller levels. So it makes sense to have a little piece to be repeated throughout each level. A great example is the Zelda franchise. In Ocarina of Time, when you walk into a shop, the shop music plays. It doesn't get too annoying because you don't spend a lot of time in there at once. Newer games in the franchise have bigger levels, so it makes less sense to feature this type of music. Think Skyword Sword. Still largely in the style of OoT, it's not an open world game. It is segmented into levels. Yet many of the levels are big enough that if there were a catchy tune playing the whole time, you'd get sick of it. Then you have Breath of the Wild, a game in which you explore the overworld for hours on end. Imagine the Hyrule Field theme playing the whole time on repeat? So I think the lack of memorable melodies is largely due to necessity. But another consideration might be a cultural trend. I noticed in music school that most of my colleagues couldn't compose a melody. Even the Composition majors. I wonder if it's because the kind of music they're being exposed to downplays melody, or even rhythm. And that makes me consider that modern video game composers value different musical features than say, Koji Kondo. Something to consider.
One of the best examples of leitmotif to me is the FTL soundtrack by Ben Prunty. Almost all the tracks feature variations of a leitmotif, with each one reusing it to produce different atmospheres, often relevant to the alien species they're used for. The Mantis theme is mysterious and foreboding, the Rock one feels sturdy and resilient, the Engi one is very peaceful, the Zoltan one evokes science and wisdow, the Lanius one, in addition to being pure awesomeness, feels like an ancient alien race is waking up, etc.
Mathew, after you mention Brave Exvius soundtrack being one of the best for FF, I checked it out and I completely agree with you. Any chance you'll do a video about it? It's woefully under appreciated by the looks of it
I do wonder why Is it that musicians nowadays are so incredibly against melody? I see it everywhere in videogames, in Classical music, in popular music, why Is melody which, if we are being completely honest, Is by far the most memorable part of any Piece of music (outside of the emotional impact it produces) i dont mean to sound rude in any way or offend anyone in any way, but i do believe that music has in many ways become anti melody currently, which inevitably makes it on the whole less memorable, even if we have a few memorable ambient masterpieces here and there, besides i believe ambient can be achieved trough melody in a far better and far more memorable way, just look at kakariko village, its incredibly melodic in nature, and Yet its far more effective at creating an atmosphere than a lot of atmospheric music, just my two cents on the matter :)
There's a musical term called "cantabile" or singable. Because there is a distinction between _music_ and _songs._ Learning and memorizing language and melody is easier when it's imitable.
It's not that they're bad. Modern game/cinema music is a "less is most" mentality. Think BotW, or Doom. Occasional melodies (and music in general), surrounded by mostly ambient sounds/ no music at all.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 It's just the differences between melodious or harmonious music, like you said though, i,'ll take melodious music over harmonius any day of the week Leitmotifs is one of the most powerful tool a game dev can use to bring weight to a scene, it' s very sad that most developers fail to use music to their fullest potential
I would just like to put it out there that Final Fantasy has never stopped putting out quality music. I've been listening to "What angle wakes me" almost constantly for the past two weeks since Shadowbringers released!
On the topic of repetition, many revere the Undertale soundtrack because of Toby Fox's work in connecting the more than one hundred pieces in the game. Things like the Napstablook fight having a role in Dummy and Spider Dance really cements the leitmotifs into the listener's thoughts.
I think it really depends on the situation within a game, as well as what kind of game it is. I like more atmospheric music when it's in a place where you can take in the scenery, like seeing the world from a cliffside, while other times I think instrumental themes work great, such as themes for individual characters or locations. I think a great example is Final Fantasy X, in which the music is a mix of instrumental and atmospheric, and really adds to the feel of the world and the fantasy world it's set in.
It's hard to agree with that idea that video game music is no longer good nor memorable, many of my favorite OST are from modern games (Undertale, Persona 5, Persona Q2, Skyrim, Axiom Verge, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, VVVVVV, The Messenger, Shovel Knight, Transformers: Devastation, Guild Wars 2)
hollow knight, celeste, hotline miami, Furi, enter the gungeon, mass effect (2)... the claim that modern music doesn't have memorable tracks is total bullshit.
Your mention of emotion made me think of Freedom Planets soundtrack. The track Major Boss Battle in particular just exudes excitement and you feel the energy building letting you know the size and seriousness of the fight, before transitioning into into a tune that lets you know that, you are the hero! You can do this!
You did an entire video on game music, you even made a point to mention start up screens in modern games, and yet you didn't mention once the absolutely generation defining and Genre conquering Music that is the Halo Opening for Halo CE, or its amazingly well done improved versions for the mainline Halo games after that?
Also like most of these videos dos games don't exist for them, even though there's so much good music on that platform. There's probably as much of it as the consoles and if you for example grew up in Eastern Europe then that was the defining sound of videogames in the 90s, not consoles.
Videogame music: *exists*
Music TH-camrs: L E I T M O T I F
I've been outed.
*Sideways would like to know your location*
@@GameScoreFanfare you and 8-bit Music Theory lmao
@@kaiiboraka and now Scruffy
People seem to think the only two types of writing are forgettable "epic" pieces and leitmotivic writing. You can write interesting, thematic music without it being structured like a Wagnerian opera.
Also, motivic writing is only such a big topic now because it's all but disappeared in Hollywood. It was considerably more common and kind of a given when trying to storytell with music, because how do you storytell without having and repeating elements that interact with others? It can be subtle. The Elder Scrolls has a handful of repeating ideas and motifs and it ties the scores together.
I think mick gordon said something about how osts these days are supposed to be in the background and blend in with everything, and that they went in the opposite direction for doom 2016's soundtrack
Yeah I probably should have given Doom a mention, if at least just visually. It certainly knows how to leave an impression!
That point when a wave comes in and the first drop of BFG Division hits. So satisfying.
Huh? Doom 2016 has a very forgettable soundtrack. I remember electric guitars and a lot of noise but that’s not memorable.
CrysisCore20 lies
@@crysiscore2051 Gotta agree. His work on Killer Instinct is far better!
*For some reason*
Minecraft's _"Sweden"_ fills me with peace and tranquility when listening to it
Volume Alpha is full of such sweet melancholy. Honestly one of the best albums of the decade.
@@GameScoreFanfare I looked it up
Its just the album I was looking for
Thanks for sharing it!
What a blessed day.
@Tattle Boad ?
@@zyaicob He said this because he is a racist.
In my opinion, game composers are usually the most consistently good music creators in the industry. Even series as long Final Fantasy have had some of the best OSTs.
I think that a reason people have problems with modern soundtracks is the general reduced appreciation for orchestral music, unless it is very much trying to get your attention.
Yeah, that's true! I suppose it can be harder to form an appreciation of orchestral music compared to electronic music.
Heitor Batista. If you want that theory proven: check Hellsing vs. Hellsing Ultimate. Hellsing Ultimate is the definite version of the Anime, except for the music part. The orchestral soundtrack is pretty fitting but mostly forgettable. Compare that to the soundtrack that plays when alucard has his first appearance in Hellsing 2004.
And while I enjoyed FF15 for what it is, I cannot remember the battle music in it. What I remember are the waltz and „Wanderslust“, just because they stick out so much. While I was typing the „VS Leviathan“ song came up, and I was like „yeah pretty nice song,but you can fit it into anything where you fight a gigantic enemy“.
I think developer often throw an entire orchestra at the question „what about music?“ and don’t even try to condense it to the pure essence of what they want the player to feel at that moment.
5 days and no Uematsu fanbois who neglect the fact he was inspired by Elton John? And now that Bloodstained has released I can't just drop Yamane for cool points? Ah well, I guess Mitsuda is safe 'cause we're never gonna get a Chrono Trigger remake.
I agree, it is important but there are composers that have a style that stands out even among video game music. I think that this is one main reason why Kohei Tanaka is so popular in Japan and why his orchestral pieces were quite different from others in the genre.
He made the OST for many games and animes (like One Piece anime) but his greatest orchestral pieces usually came from a single series called Sakura Wars (Sakura Taisen in Japan) which is very popular in Japan but never got much attention in the West due to a lack of marketing.
@@shivalah I don't know, Gradus Vita gives me goosebumps every time (I'm a sucker for epic music) but I agree that Ultimate's OST can come across as a little bit generic sometimes. On the other hand, I love Shine, the original Hellsing ending, and I think the jazzy themes used throughout the series fit the tone of the scenes quite nicely.
Person: "Triple A Video game music has gotten terrible recently!"
Nintendo: "Am I a joke to you?"
It is weird how we don't really consider big budget Japanese games to be AAA.
@@GameScoreFanfare That is really strange, come to think of it. I personally think it's because, despite gems like GoW and RDR2, people tend to associate western AAA developers to be more in it for the money than the consumer, unlike how many people see indie games, regardless of how true that sentiment is. Nintendo and other Japanese AAA publishers, on the other hand, consistently puts out amazing games, and people don't want to associate them with other AAA publishers they consider "bad." Hence why I've heard many people call Nintendo "an Indie developer with the budget of triple A."
Granted, that's just my take on things.
I wasn't a fan of the BotW score. Very muted in comparison to every other title.
@@noob451 I personally loved it because it adds to the post-apocalyptic, environmental atmosphere of BotW, but to each their own.
@@noob451 only good track in that game is that accordion theme , or kass theme IIRC
Nintendo made way better music in other games of the switch gen
I just finished the story of Celeste about 2 weeks ago, and the soundtrack is amazing. Some tracks are atmospheric, like the windy hills stage, some are unsettling, like the mirror temple, and some are exciting, like some of the boss fights. They all serve different purposes, and are remembered differently, but they do the jobs brilliantly.
Such a great game
Amazing game
I always feel like Celeste is not appreciated as much as it deserves
"What Happened to Memorable Game Music?"
Immediately remember Persona 5
And like 30 other games from the last few years, but let him have his video
luis enrique vargas azcona Persona 3
@@milowolfface9392 He did say there are many video games with great music nowadays.
*a c i d j a z z , b a b y*
Life will change guitar theme~
Instantly thought about Hollow Knight when i read the title. IN a few years time everyone from time to time will have a deep nostalgia over the themes in the game's OST
Totally, I was anticipating the game's release (because it's Australian) and listened to the soundtrack the day it was released. By the time Mantis Lords came around, I knew the soundtrack was something special and would stick with me for a long time.
it was almost a year ago when i played the game and i still just need to come back to its magnificent music.
Yes
I knew it was something special when I opened the menu
I already do
Phenomenal video, by far your best work yet. You managed to take a topic which has become trite in games discussion, quickly recap many of the popular arguments, and add a lot of new perspective from music theory and individual composer perspectives. It's also beautifully edited, with some top notch visual effects and well placed cuts. Thank you for putting so much effort into this video essay - it was a joy to watch, and I can't wait for whatever comes next!
Wow, you are so very kind, thank you! I am glad you liked it! ☺️
Seriously, I can't understand how people can say this kind of thing when, in the recent years, we had OST like Persona 5's, Octopath Traveler, Crypt of the Necrodancer or Nier Automata just to name a few...
Even Zelda Breath of the Wild. I know a lot don't think it has a memorable soundtrack, but the themes of the different Divine Beast were awesome! The one when a Guardian start to attack you is the as intense and stressful as it should be, and the town's music gives just the right atmosphere for the different places...
I usually think the main difference is that, old game music way more... In your face? Like, I usually feels like the music was on it's own layer, while new ones tries to blend more into the full product, which can make it less present. To go back to Zelda, every musics are naturally louder than the ones in Breath of the Wild. Which isn't a bad thing, but can explain why people barely notice it.
I lot of people don't like the minimalist music in Breath of the Wild's overworld, and that's understandable (though I disagree), however the towns' music is undeniably phenomenal. Hateno, Lurelin, and Rito village's themes are gorgeous.
I think it's kinda when games got better graphics, and arcades are less popular (at least in most genres), the role of the background track become more of complementary rather than catchy, and so a lot of the time the track won't be very melodic, which means it's hard to memorize the music. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's certainty something you can only feel but cannot remember.
And this, to people with little knowledge about how game music works, could be "it's not memorable, so it's bad".
I think splatoon also has really good music and really conveys the feel of splatoon
The issue with BotW music is exactly what you pointed out. When a major theme does appear, like in a boss fight or a cutscene, it's great. But those events are less than 1% of the game. The other 99% of the time, you're hearing the same few overworld songs. And those songs tend to be just four notes repeated. Every Zelda game before this had huge sweeping themes and recognizable melodies, even in the overworld. So changing this to have minimalist rifts is kind of...jarring. Especially when most everything else in BotW was trying to revive the feeling of old Zelda.
@@maxis2k those events aren't 1%. Sure BOTW is mostly overworld but what is your goal when you are in the overworld? Go to the places that have the big themes. Also, having an overworld theme would break it's post-apocalyptic atmosphere. You only hear music from certain locations as those locations are the only thing... Alive. A sad music isn't also appropriate as it would be the music too late for it. 100 years have passed, so people are just trying to live their lives in this vast world where a lot of things has been erased.
You didn’t need to remind me that red dead 2 won best soundtrack over Celeste. I’m still pretty salty about that
I personally think that Celeste only have one great tune. The first level one I think. Red Dead 2 in my opinion is one of the strongest and most atmospheric osts in the industry. And some of the melodies are heart wrenching. But in the end, nothing beats Pirate Radio in Crack in Time:D
That as well as beating Octopath Traveler's OST at that particular award last year. I think about it sometimes.
bluecokedragon exhale, reach for the summit, ressurections, scattered and lost, theo and madeline, my dearest friends?
@@bluecokedragon nah, all of Celestes tracks slap
Xenoblade 2 was eligible that year. I"ll never forgive it not being nominated.
>What happened to memorable game music?
Toby Fox: "Am I a joke to you?"
me
I really dig Terraria's soundtrack because it has some really fun melodies while at the same time doing a great job of setting atmosphere.
And really memorable
Absolutely
Game does have big hitters indeed
I agree. Terraria is probably simultaneously my favourite game and one of my favorite soundtracks. Morning rain in particular has a very special place in my heart
Sounds like Minecraft, in a good way, I love Minecraft and it's soundtrack because it is both memorable and atmospheric.
I think what makes your work so special is the attention to the story behind the composers. I didn't know about Darren Korb recording everything in his apartment. Little anecdotes like that go such a long way in making these vids so cozy. Great work as always man :)
Aye what’s up Daryl?
The Sealed Vessel music is just perfection.
Hollow Knight ❤️
Is more like: "Why western AAA game music is shit?"
Indie western games, and japonese game in general are pretty good.
Indies are killing it when it comes to music
Except the bois behind the recent Crash and Spyro music, they know their stuff for remixes
Japonese
BF5 and BF1 technically had some great music in AAA standards. Then again, BF always has the top music in AAA games in general
Indie western games and japanese games do tend to produce the best soundtracks. But then what happens if it's a japanese indie game?
>Looks at the Touhou Project
Oh right. Yep, best soundtrack confirmed.
It very much depends on the genre. Many western games, especially open worlds. Are very forgettable. While rpg's and fighting games usually are very memorable. Side-scrollers/platformers are very random. Some are very memorable but most of them generic.
I have the same opinion
Red dead redemption 2 is open world western game but the music is phenomenal
Minecraft's music is awesome.
Fearch 93 Again sweetie have you heard of this little indie hit dmc5 ?
Is many the same as all?
Personally I agree, a lot of western games provide forgettable soundtracks... thats not to say they dont fit in game but thats all they do.
Nier, Persona, Bloodstained, Octopath Traveler, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Trails of Cold Steel, Dark Souls and hundreds of other games still have consistently amazing and memorable music. I don't think anything happened to it lol.
I’ll also say that most of those games are in a series. They had some pre-established themes and influence.
@Walther Penne Most of these games are amazing what the fk are you talking about?
lol.
I’d like to add to that. IMO the soundtracks of Days Gone, Far Cry 5, Ace Combat 7, and CoD Cold War are amazing.
@Walther Penne o look. A Redditor
@Walther Penne sure you don't.
It's really sad how many people will see a title, make an assumption of the video's content based on it (not an issue), ignorantly believe that assumption is correct without watching the video (very much an issue), and then make a fool out of themselves by making an angry comment that agrees with the video but argues against their imagination of what the video would be about. Have some common sense, people.
THANK YOU. 😭
Leitmotif reminded me of Celeste's "Reach For The Summit" song. It's probably the pinnacle of this technique.
Celeste itself is on top in so many different areas, from gameplay, speedrunning, music, themes, even accessibility.
Was looking for this title among others in the comments
Look I love Celeste but I genuinely don’t think a real argument can be made that Undertale isn’t the best use of leitmotif in possibly any video game to date. The game didn’t even click for me as much as it did for so many other people, but there are very few moments in video games that hit me as hard as hearing final boss theme and realizing what it actually was. There are a ton of other examples, obviously, but even if it was just that one I think I’d say the same.
I think that's mainly why RPGs & Sandbox Open Worlds often get the most recognition these days. They often are focused more on emotion and staying in certain areas for extended periods of time. Staying in these areas help repeat a melody and make it memorable. People love Dark Souls and Nier's soundtrack not only because they have fantastic pieces, but because it's difficult and that emotion is associated with the music. RPG battle themes in general are widely loved and considered memorable because of the emotion, repetition, and potential struggles/triumphs being associated with these battle themes. Minecraft has an extremely memorable soundtrack due to it's fitting soundscapes, simple melodies, and repetition. I didn't say this very well, but hopefully you gained something out of reading this.
(Xenoblade is a banger though nobody can argue there)
You really remember those Dark Souls boss tracks when they kick your ass 100 times.
If you're talking about memorable soundtrack and leitmotifs, it's a complete waste to not mention the touhou series.
I don't even care at all about bullet hell game, but the music alone make me squeal in delight. A few of my favourite one are :
-Necrofantasia(mind the volume)
-Satori maiden - 3rd eye (this one is classical music style)
-Emotional skyscraper (this one doesn't need explaining tbh)
And many more, but if I try listing every track that i love there would be literally more than a hundred of it.
my name isn't valstrax. The 2hu music is hella lit but i dnt think that their use lots of leitmotiv
@@emidualibe
Eastern story is a leitmotif used by pretty much all main touhou title music , and the music is nonetheless is all memorable and catchy
that not a lot, some remix endings too use leitmotivs and also two lvls in the game, but this is more the exeption than the rule (for exemple you dont find remilia theme in flans theme not even a bit) But yeah, the touhou music is hella lit, like i said earlier
Some of my favs, but with shitty titles
UN Owen but its UFO
Sad.mp3
Star from undertale but not in undertale and in a game
Bethoven but it-s a loli
Fuck you because of you i can-t finish my MOF run u mirror mountain bitch FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
Megalovania
Also i am basicily french exept its in belgium so my english might be ass shitty ass my titles
There are so many memorable soundtracks for me from the last two decades, and from different genres - Sotc, Journey, Undertale, Inside, TLOU, Ori. Some pieces in there make me cry simply by listening to them again, or otherwise leave me in awe. I liked the point you managed to make at the end, that it's all about emotion nowadays, and oh boy do some composers create emotional rollercoasters with everything they can! Some people need to change their perspective: the stuff didn't get worse, it just got *different* . Great video, and very informative, especially the hardware section!
Probably one of the most complete "takes" in this timeless argument ive seen. A really wholesome video all around! :D
Please don’t stop making content! It’s always so good!
Thank you! I'll try!
@@GameScoreFanfare if you ever run out of it, filming a dog barking to megalomania would be a video that counts as content.
I think soundtracks can be kind of categorized by the impact they have during the gameplay or cutscenes, usually in order to alance out another aspect of the experience that's lacking (voice acting, cinematography, camera work...) and is the reason why indies rely on music the set the atmosphere so much (which I personally like better than the AAA approach since we're playing games, not watching a movie).
*Plays Octopath Traveler*
*Hears Decisive Battle II*
It never was gone.
Mario Bouchard I was hoping to see this
Xenoblade Chronicles 1 and 2 have incredible soundtracks
@@mikedusenbery6464 Yeah I don't understand how people sleep on the Xenoblade soundtracks. They are the soundtracks we would have gotten in classic RPGs had they not been limited by technology.
@@waah919 It's all the sony fanboys that are pissed off that Yasunori Mitsuda would work on a Nintendo exclusive title.
@@waah919 Nier Automata
Great video! I loved the overview of limitations and innovations, and how they create memorable music!
FTL
Ori and the Blind Forest
Dust - an Elysian Tail
Subnautica
FF15
Nier Automata
Mass Effect
Divinity OS2
Stellaris
A Hat in Time
Any Monster Hunter Game
And these are just the few games I personally played.
Honestly, the problem isn't that there's no good music anymore, it just gets buried under heaps of mediocrity.
That sounds like the industry as a whole. The good stuff is buried under a sea of mediocrity.
Also persona, don't forget persona (smt too)
It’s also a matter of selective remembrence. We remember the good soundtracks from back in the day and forget about the ones that didn’t stand the test of time, because they weren’t as good. Contrast that to today, we are living in the present and experiencing basically everything that is being created, good or bad. It’s current and so we’re still talking about it.
It’s the same situation as boring people complaining about contemporary pop music not being as good as popular music of the past, when it’s just the case that we just don’t listen to or remember any of the crappy songs of the past because people didn’t care enough about them to maintain their relevance.
There are so many great soundtracks today! Mostly in narrative single player games. My favorite is Nier Automata.
@Walther Penne uhuh....and what do you play?
What the fuck
@Walther Penne 1-It's not boring 2-What does Sony have to do with it lmao
@Walther Penne "I stopped gaming on modern platforms"
Ok boomer
Yes, but music like Nier Automata has become more the exception (among others) than the rule. Most have become like Killzone or Darksouls. Yes, they sound good, but it is either generic action music that could fit any game, or atmospheric music that sounds like isolated sounds that do generate emotion, but don't actually tell a story and you can barely distinguish when a track ends and another one begins.
I definitely feel like indie games tend to lead the pack in terms of memorable soundtracks these days. Games like Super Hexagon, Towerfall, and Stardew Valley would be nothing without their fantastic soundtracks. Really I could go through my Steam library and just keep listing off indie games with phenomenal soundtracks. Environmental Station Alpha, Night in the Woods, Return of the Obra Dinn, Downwell...
Undertale has been mentioned on this very channel in its own video. I wanted to highlight some other games. Note that I also didn't mention Celeste or any sort of rhythm game. I love the soundtracks for those games, but they have plenty of credit already.
Inmost?
I think we need to stop thinking of "good music" as just memorable melodies and leitmotifs. Trent Reznor's score for Quake is one of the most brilliant OST I have ever heard, and that is entirely amelodic. The OST in Portal 2 is also stellar, although even that has some memorable melodies
It didn't go anywhere. If you think this you're just looking in the wrong places.
This is just what the title makes me think by the way.
I knew that would be the case, which is why I addressed it in the first 90 seconds!
@@GameScoreFanfare ah okay nice^^ i guess its a good bait to get people in haha
I just don't think it's a very good answer! Or an answer at all really!
@@GameScoreFanfare It's a better answer than "They have more instruments now so you're wrong" (with an implied "early game system's onboard synths aren't 'real instruments'" in there as well), mind, which I've seen before - approximately the equivalent of responding to "I wish Nintendo would go back to the Metroid Fusion art style for the next 2d Metroid rather than the 2.5d stuff they used for Samus Returns" by yelling "You're wrong because Fusion lacked polygons!"
@@GameScoreFanfare hmm you mean my answer? I agree that a lot of AAA titles nowadays have boring non-memorable or generic osts with little effort. But as you've shown in your description you're aware that indie games such as undertale and a lot of nintendo games such as Splatoon exist. So it's not like its gone, its just not the focus anymore in big budget cinematic experiences. Indie games have to make up for what they lack in visual options in other areas akin to games back in the era you talked about at the start. And Nintendo games have just always had that charm I think and never fully lost it.
Could you do a video on the soundtrack of I Am Setsuna? I really believe the creativity there shines due to the forced limitation of making all tracks on piano. One of my favourite modern OST's.
As a fire emblem fan i have no video game music complaints, it's always been and probably always will be a musical feast
What would you say about Final Fantasy XIV's soundtrack, and its evolution from A Realm Reborn through the newly released Shadowbringers?
Not going to lie, this is probably the most interesting video (or even lesson in general) about music that I have ever seen. You know exactly what you are talking about and how to deliver the message. You tackled so many different things here and put it together beautifully. I wish I could subscribe twice.
This was a great vid! I've never gotten too involved in the debate due to my love of indie games basically negating the argument's reason for existing before it could get near me, but it was cool to hear how the process of game ost composition changed over the last 3 decades too. :D
Indies are the exception!
I definitely think that the memorability of a song is due mostly to how much it catches your attention. One of the most memorable songs ive heard in any video game is roaming the wastes (mor ardain theme) from xenoblade chronicles 2. From the begining it of rabs you by the balls with the trumpet and doesnt let go until the night theme plays.
No love for A Hat in Time? I swear, that games OST felt nostalgic to me listening to it like a week after I started playing it.
Fucking this
Hat in Time, Cuphead, SFV and Oddysey are the best oat ever
Hat in Time music has that new but nostalgic fell mixed perfectly
This is so smart. And it praises Steam Gardens for all the right reasons. You verbalized what I have been feeling towards all those issues. Thanks!
I was waiting for the moment he mentions undertale
One can say about this game whatever he want but the Ost is and will still be among the best of this decade
Very entertaining and informative video as always 👌
Along with Celeste!
Victor Snyder oh I totally agree
most bashtalk about undertale is invalid anyway so yeah, undertale is fcking great, and its music just phenomenal
you covered one of the topics that has been bugging me my entire life. I was always too skeptical to actually talk about it with anyone. this was super informative and enjoyable to watch, you seriously need more attention! please don't stop what you're doing!
Ahaha it's funny, just after you described the way hearing the music from Hyper Light Drifter made you feel, that Oxenfree track took me right back to teenage obliviousness, voices in the static, and a growing sense of horrible dread.
Nostalgia stems from whatever we find integral to our understanding of the world, and I think it's beautiful to consider how even if video game music these days sounds so different from what many of us once knew, today's soundtracks will breed new memories and new creativity for future players.
Ys VIII's OST is one of the most astounding soundtracks in recent memory, especially its first level theme, Sunshine Coastline. I do agree limitation breeds creativity, a lot, but those composers who learned to make standout tracks from very little when it was all they had haven't gone anywhere.
They kind of have though. You get occasional tracks from the OGs, like the few Kondo did for Super Mario Odyssey. But there's barely anyone who got started in the 80s who are still making entire game soundtracks, most of them are now in supervisory roles. The only one I can think of still doing full scores is Yoko Shimomura.
@@GameScoreFanfare The thing is Falcom still has Hayato Sonoda (Legend at composing memorable atmospheric/location music [eg. Parm, the Spinning Town]), Takahiro Unisuga (Absolute legend Uematsu-tier composer; he is the one who composed Sunshine Coastline) and Yukihiro Jindo (Another legend; outsourced but has worked with Falcom for ages now. Specializes in epic orchestral compositions and techno tracks).
Their music have been plagued by Singa a bit (I'm only talking about Hajimari no kiseki & CS4) but overall score is still done mostly by the legendary composers
Falcom hinted that their next game will have more Unisuga tracks.
man you cite so many great games for this video. hyper light drifter's soundtrack is definitely one of the best video game ost's of all time.
When I hear this complaint I just ask them if they know the Elder Scrolls theme, or the Halo theme, or the Witcher theme. It's such a none issue, like Bloodborne has a wicked memorable & distinct soundtrack, I wouldn't sacrifice that atmosphere for a few more melodies, or the beautiful introduction to Rapture in Bioshock, much less the intro to Columbia in Infinite. I seriously don't understand where people are getting the notion that music has gotten weaker or worse with time, I wouldn't trade any of my favorite soundtracks of the last 10 years to relive the music of the last 30, except the original Pokemon soundtrack, that shit is engraved in the folds of my brain so deep, nothing can replace it.
...I'm not going to lie. I played the entirety of Witcher 3 and I can't for the life of me remember what the Witcher theme sounds like.
Elder Scrolls has a theme?
@@Walamonga1313 I think he meant Skyrim, otherwise I don't hear it neither.
I really enjoyed this video. I love how fair you were in describing the different influences that impact current soundtracks. I think conversations like this help creators continue to make wonderful music. Especially that last section about emotion. Excellent.
Play furi if you want memorable video game music
You're mine is my favorite.
All the track by "the toxic avenger" are awesome in that game.
@@TheCivildecay I'm more of a Carpenter Brut and Waveshaper guy myself
@@sonicbhoc I prefer Carpenter Brut's tracks on hotline:Miami over those in furi
great vid! made me think of how my favourite moments from playing fire emblem: three houses was all linked to music: "chasing daybreak" for post-time skip; "shambala" (the dubstep track) for confronting those who slither in the dark; "apex of the world" for confronting edelgard. just bangers all over that brought me to youtube to try to revisit those tracks
Of course the melodies of bland and uninspired triple a games from ubi or rockstar sound like that. But then we get masterpieces like nier: automata, persona 5 or xenoblade 2 and it balances out.
I dunno, the AAA stuff can be good too! Destiny, even Assassin's Creed has had some good soundtracks (that one by Austin Wintory in particular!)
Saying that Ubisoft and Rockstar's music is bland or uninspired seems awfully closed-minded. Red Dead Redemption 2's soundtrack is moving, memorable, and gorgeous. Assassin's Creed IV has a great soundtrack, too.
And the common theme is that they are all japanese games! Western studios are so uninspired now days excluding indie developers tho
Even GTA V has some memorable tracks, just dare to say you can't identify/remember the characteristic track that uses to play while flying! I think it's more of a question of style and not inspiration, although I can't negate that also plays a big role.
@@shing02 I honestly think thats a case of picking what you're looking for. Triple A soundtracks from the west are still fantastic pretty often, destiny, Journey, Skyrim, Fallout are just a few examples. As someone else mentioned calling Ubisoft and Rockstar in particular uninspired is iffy, on one hand I don't remember literally any music from GTA V, but I don't believe music needs to be memorable; but rather emotionally fitting and impactful. I've that that Red Dead Redeption 2's soundtrack is excellent, but I've not played it; as for ubisoft, the Assassins Creed Franchise (especially Black Flag) is consistently fantastic, emotionally impactful, and moderately memorable as well. Hell even multiplayer games have managed to have a modicum of good music which is especially difficult, but with the map themes and main menu themes from Overwatch, being so iconic and recognizable while fitting the games tone perfectly. I think this is a case of people really looking for things to match their opinion, the way people say all pop music sucks, but if you ask for a reason why they'll usually not reply, and if they do it'll be something something four chords without actually showing understanding for why the four chords are necessarily bad. It's easy to say that western triple a music is uninspired, but criticism like that isn't constructive, and thus, useless.
Persona 5 Royal's "I Believe" is incredibly memorable and recognizeable even from its first beats alone, despite literally only playing twice in an entire playthough-- on the way to the final boss, and landing the final blow. In fact, you might never even hear the full song, as both sections it plays in can be ended long before the song is finished. Everything from its composition, the lyrics, its theme, its melody, the timing of when it plays in the story, it all serves to evoke a certain feeling that, after hearing it the first time on the way to the final boss, you'll feel the same way any other time you hear it afterward. It's a masterpiece.
Good grief, do I give the "You're just not looking hard enough" answer often, as even I continue to be surprised by what's out there, old & new. AMID EVIL, Bastion, Black Mesa, Destiny (Especially Music of the Spheres), Dust: An Elysian Tail, DUSK, Enter the Gungeon, Journey, Ori & The Blind Forest, Risk of Rain, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice, Wolfenstein: The New Saga (Mick Gordon sure knew how to get my tears spilling as much as my blood boiling with The New Order & The Old Blood!) & so much more out there are just hitting holes-in-one on my 'course' (Even Bear McCreary had some nice stuff made for Dark Void & SOCOM 4 prior to his God of War [PS4] gig), then there are such series as Ryu ga Gotoku/Yakuza, Ace Combat & many more (I hear Sonic the Hedgehog largely doesn't struggle to deliver musically either) consistently creating themes people create so many positive associations with. Not to mention I've heard some fantastic work made for community projects ('Gravity' by Robbie "Scias" Johnson for Halo SPV3 may be an all-time favourite fan-tune for the Halo franchise, with Jafet Meza & gang making some swell stuff for Installation 01).
We're definitely in a time when composers are more keen to hit their best notes at the rightful moments rather than for a consistent length of time as well as letting the sound designers work the ambience. TLoZ: Breath of the Wild spacing out it's music outside of the Hyrule Plains, The Last of Us largely waiting for it's moment to provide emotional punctuation, DOOM & more working in their music layer after layer (What Mitsuhiro Kitadani pulled off with the in-game use of 'LRSSG Briefing IV' for Ace Combat 7 was one special surprise) & so forth. But I'd definitely say there's still plenty of memorable music to be found even from some of the most recent releases. It just might be that not all of it's put front & center at the title screen (Xenoblade Chronicles, The Walking Dead: Season Two, Tales from the Borderlands & Enter the Gungeon are examples I can name that certainly do) or played on a consecutively catchy loop.
Imma add touhou here
Ok
And celeste
Nice
Might as well retroactively mention nu-Prey as well (Raphael Colantonio, Matt Piersall & Ben Crossbones certainly had quite the additions to Mick Gordon's contributions).
And to add to the mention of community projects, I can all-too easily suggest tunes from Zera: Myths Awaken (Previously Sypro: Myths Awaken, but a C&D from Activision had them adapt to an Original IP) such as 'Canvas Falls', beauties for total conversation mod Sonic Gaiden such as 'Rainy Plateaus Zone Act 1 & Act 2' & 'Dream Mountain Zone Act 1' as well as what's so far been recently released for Boreal Alpyh with 'An Unrelenting Threat' a favourite pick (Their 'Hazardous Environments (Remix)' is a proper good one though).
Yes, but undertale and furi exist. The music in these is enough for this decade.
Furi is amazing, for sure. Synthwave is now my favorite genre of music.
@@commanderleo I only used two examples because those are the first ones that come to mind, being two of my favourite games. Hotline miami has a fucking amazing soundtrack, and there are plenty of other games with similarly amazing soundtracks. I coulda mentioned katana zero, doom 2016/eternal, hades, persona 5, ghostrunner, and many others. It was just a quick comment.
Thank you! I’ve been watching you for a while and your videos have been great but this one really takes the cake. Also I definitely agree- modern scores aren’t worse but they often mean different things- working towards bolstering a mood or teaching a mechanic (think Zelda). The part about making a “memorable” soundtrack really hit me- that’s interesting that game scores are sometimes “designed for memorableness”
We're still talking about them, so they have to be memorable in some way!
That final touch before the summery really clicks with how I feel, and love, modern game music(hyper light drifter, hollow knight, etc). No track from the game plays in my head when I think of them, just the feeling I got. And when I listen to the music from the game I get a wave of memories of events and feelings I get from the game and exploring their world. Although the original Mario soundtrack was memorable, I don't feel like it carries the same weight as these games, as most games now. Most games now really strive for greatness.
1:38 mentions that RDR2 won best soundtrack
me: IT SHOULDVE BEEN OCTOPATH
I personally think it should have been Celeste. Either way, i think multiple OSTs should have won over RDR2's :(
Kidômaru-Kun anything but RDR2
@@cmv_1869 For real
Definitely forgetting the first four Ratchet & Clank games with David Bergeaud. I feel like there would’ve been a lot to say about his compositions
Really well put together video and commentary! definitely thankful that this turned up in my reccomended
It's impressive just how much a game's soundtrack can influence a player's experience. Stickerbrush Symphony from Donkey Kong Country 2 is my favorite soundtrack (Grimm/Nightmare King Grimm from Hollow Knight probably being a close second). I played the levels that had it over and over again JUST to keep hearing that song and, years later, I didn't remember its name but it never really got off my mind, so it was easy to find it again. I've heard it so many times, but I still love it so freaking much
Nier Automata has a very memorable soundtrack with my favorites being possessed by disease and Bipolar nightmare.
Dragons dogma has clash of fates, coils of light and into free before licensing issues.
I remember getting into video game music with Kirby 64. I loved the mechanical sounds and the sad tone of the Factory level, I liked the desperate music of Zero-two, I also loved the silly electronic music of the Pyramid.
Then my love of gaming music grew and grew even to modern music. The dragons' theme in Breath of the Wild, the "OH CRAP RUN NOW OR YOU'RE GOING TO DIE BECAUSE YOU FORGOT TO SCROUNGE FOR SHIELDS!!" piano of the Guardians in the same game, almost all the Splatoon music (heck, I try to sing the "lyrics" to most of them. So imagine me on a bus just suddenly trying to "sing" Blitz It), Undertale's music is definitely very memorable, and I dance to Cadence of Hyrule's music.
But yeah, i think it just depends on the artist, game genre, and most importantly the musical taste of the listener. I grew up with a variety of genres with electronic becoming dominant (My love of the Pyramid theme vs the Splatoon soundtrack). Though I also love songs that give that feeling of urgency (Zero-Two vs Guardians).
Nier:Automata have one of the best scores i have listen to in my whole life
Truth. Glory to humanity!
@@lobstrosity7163 I think you mean: Glory to mankind!!
@@CrimzonWolf777 No, I, uh, totally meant... Damn.
Was looking for an Automata appreciation comment. Thank you for posting it!
@@Lunaryse *** NIER SPOILER ALERT **
FInished 9S campain 5 minutes ago and... WoW. Everything in Nier is so incredible. Hope it will keep that interesting till the very end. (sorry abour the poor language =P)
Music as a whole has definitely shaped me as a musician, but old-school video game music is what defined me as a musician. The theme song for Turrican II is a fantastic example of what I absolutely love with old game music. It alone has given me so much inspiration and that's just counting one singular song out of hundreds upon hundreds of fantastic pieces I have listened to over the years!
I may have been born in late 1997, but I very much got to grow up mainly with games from the 80's and 90's. I am grateful for this as I have an appreciation and love for those eras of games - and in turn their music - which I truly doubt I'd ever gotten had I been born later when the melody-heavy electronic video game music had stopped being the mainstream whereas orchestral as well as techno and dubstep took its place...
I remember seeing an Extra Credits video on this topic. Would love to see your views on this topic.
^_^
*cue dramatic pressing of the play button, to resume the video.
I was at a Pax East panel about video game music composition a few years ago and during the Q&A session I asked one the panel if character themes were dead. They tried to talk to me like I was stupid. I'm glad you made this video to edify what I was thinking.
Yeah, the conversation makes it seem so black and white. People have opinions and you are of one of the other. But I think it's a bit more complex than that, you can't paint all of VGM with one brush, and there are reasons why we see some more theme driven scores and other ones go in a more atmospheric direction.
Perfect example of an ost with memorable melodies nowadays is FFXIV. Constantly find myself humming themes from this ost.
**clicks video, ready to hum along with every SNES melody featured**
I'm just imagining somebody humming extremely aggresively.
I really hope you make a video on Persona 5’s, the Persona series’s, or even Atlus’s games’ OST. I absolutely love P4 and 5’s soundtrack and would love to hear what you have to say about it.
Interesting choice ending on an Oxenfree piece. It's one of my favorite games of the decade and it has a pretty strong soundtrack despite not being a melody-palooza like games in the '90s often were. I also appreciate the deep cut of showing Lightning Returns footage--not many people know that game, but the whole XIII trilogy has good music. And, yeah. Undertale. Basically a proof-of-concept that melodies were much more prominent back in the '90s, and that we can still make soundtracks like that today if we want to. By reducing the aural photorealism ("auralrealism"?) and ambient background noise, and focusing on more distinctive sounds / instruments / timbres, you can make a melody stand out much more prominently. All you need at that point is a catchy melodic idea. (Which I would argue is actually the hardest aspect of music to master. Rhythm and harmonies are a lot easier to sidle or analyze your way into. But a good melody is visceral and on some level requires inspiration.)
Great comment which I entirely agree with. But I did want to mention, the main reason I chose the Lightning Returns clip was because I was talking about time constraints, and I loved the matching of me saying "composers are brought onto projects late in the development cycle" with Lightning being like "only thirteen days to go." Makes me giggle every single time. 😄
@@GameScoreFanfare Ah, of course! I shoulda thought of that. =]
I still think octopath traveler should’ve won best score 2018
Supgamer Or Celeste.
@@CrashJakFan1994 celestes is great but octopath is just mind blowong
*Decisive Battle II plays in the background*
Xenoblade Chronicles 2's soundtrack is incredible
The Midnight Wood (the song playing towards the end when showing Hyper Light Drifter) is one of my favorite game songs ever. I found the melody to be extremely memorable, but I think the main reason I remember it so much is the emotion behind it. It's a song that somehow manages to be unsettling and peaceful, and I love the way it builds.
But here I am with Titania' Theme (What Angel Wakes Me) from FFXIV : Shadowbringers still stuck in my head. Make it stop. *plays Rak'Tika Greatwood Theme instead*
Soken's talent and contribution to FFXIV cannot be overstated. It's a huge responsability to be in charge of a Final Fantasy soundtrack, and Soken delivers.
I've had the melody from the lvl 80 dungeon (being vague to avoid spoilers) going through my head for days... Soken has really nailed the melodic style and Shadowbringers is so full of juicy melodies that he milked for so many great moments. Loved it.
This video is a perfect example of why I love video game music, through and through. Also, Beacon Beach at the end there hit me like a truck. Keep being awesome, and thank you for this video.
It's actually Towhee Grove! But I love Beacon Beach as well. Such a great game and OST, I'm very excited for Afterparty.
@Game Score Fanfare That’s the second time I’ve mixed up those two LOL. I’m also extremely excited for Afterparty as well, with OXENFREE already being my favorite game I’ve ever played!
I was ready to go ham on you with that title but you got me good. I think this is up there with your best work! My favourite modern ost is currently The Last Guardian. I hope you give it a listen one day.
Team Ico have perhaps the most consistently good soundtracks out there. Helps that there's only three, but each one is amazing.
@@GameScoreFanfare You're right, the team just make outstanding labours of love each time. There's something so sweeping and beautiful about TLG suite that moves me to tears even 2-3 after playing the game.
That soundtrack is absolutely amazing! When the first note dropped in the opening, I knew it would be a great game!
I tend to gravitate towards melodic focused music in video games, though I suspect that's because I tend to gravitate towards 'simple fun' which lends itself towards simpler musical structures, which melodic focused music tends to be - There's a reason we don't start kids off with music built out of complicated harmonies that generate a soothing soundscape when first exposing them to music, but to simple tunes that often have a single, simple, melody line and not much else going on.
I might feel differently if I gravitated towards more cinematic games (And tend to prefer ambience focused soundtracks for film and television score), and while in general I prefer melodic focused game soundtracks, I wouldn't want most exploration focused games to focus on melody, since... If I'm going to be searching an area for a few hours (And exploration focused games are the other sort of game I tend to gravitate to) I probably don't want melodic music for that.
But, hey, I'm the sort of person who once attended a concert performances of a suite of duets composed 'for c64 and piano' (also a series of pieces composed for bespoke 1-bit synthesizers by a different composer at the same performance), so... My tastes aren't exactly going to be typical.
u ever listened to any touhou soundtracks? I'd recommend Imperishable Night for melodic stuff and Subterranean Animism/Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom/Violet Detector for harmonically funky stuff
@@slimeinc.3822 IKR the differences of style between the early touhou and touhou 12,14,and 15 is really apparent, it really is impressive considering all of them are done by a single person (our lord and saviour ZUN)
On a side note my favourites in no particular order are touhou 7(PCB),8(IN),10(MOF),12(UFO),and 15(LOLK) though SA is close to them.
Edit1: forgot UFO is actually the 12th touhou LOL, i always got it and ten desires backward
@@mynameaintvalstrax7131 The title "Ten Desires" doesn't help either lol.
Wow, this video covered this question so throughly. Excellent work. This video was amazing.
I grew up with Zelda. and damn its iconic and instant goosebumps when I hear it. Just so memorable
In my opinion the most memorable music theme ever is Woodtick in Monkey Island 2 - Le Chuck's Revenge. It adapts itself perfectly, changing depending on the place you're visiting. And also the Special Edition managed to modernize it well, making it fully orchestrated instead of MIDI, but retaining the interactivity. More games should have music like that.
Please tell me you've heard Lufia 2's ost on the SNES. Talk about pushing boundaries.
Tales of Phantasia used an extensive wav sample library for instrumentation and inserted a _full vocal intro_
Things that modern game music is missing (for the most part): Melody, as you mentioned, rhythm, and periodicity. What stood out to me about the samples you played from the older games was they always had a beat and some overall texture, accomplished by syncopation and/or a chord progression. The newer game music TENDS to be more ambient and lack these feature. Here's what I'd attribute that to:
Limitations, as you mentioned. But more specifically, the older games were segmented into smaller levels. So it makes sense to have a little piece to be repeated throughout each level. A great example is the Zelda franchise. In Ocarina of Time, when you walk into a shop, the shop music plays. It doesn't get too annoying because you don't spend a lot of time in there at once.
Newer games in the franchise have bigger levels, so it makes less sense to feature this type of music. Think Skyword Sword. Still largely in the style of OoT, it's not an open world game. It is segmented into levels. Yet many of the levels are big enough that if there were a catchy tune playing the whole time, you'd get sick of it. Then you have Breath of the Wild, a game in which you explore the overworld for hours on end. Imagine the Hyrule Field theme playing the whole time on repeat?
So I think the lack of memorable melodies is largely due to necessity. But another consideration might be a cultural trend. I noticed in music school that most of my colleagues couldn't compose a melody. Even the Composition majors. I wonder if it's because the kind of music they're being exposed to downplays melody, or even rhythm. And that makes me consider that modern video game composers value different musical features than say, Koji Kondo. Something to consider.
Steam Garden has the Persona 5 vibe :) Great video! Now I want to play games all day...gotta stay strong.
So you know that we're out there
Because it’s jazzy? Lol
One of the best examples of leitmotif to me is the FTL soundtrack by Ben Prunty. Almost all the tracks feature variations of a leitmotif, with each one reusing it to produce different atmospheres, often relevant to the alien species they're used for.
The Mantis theme is mysterious and foreboding, the Rock one feels sturdy and resilient, the Engi one is very peaceful, the Zoltan one evokes science and wisdow, the Lanius one, in addition to being pure awesomeness, feels like an ancient alien race is waking up, etc.
I still think that Persona has one of the best (when not the best) soundtracks out there.
Just say Persona 5, we know it's the only one you've played.
@@tyler-xo3rb he certainly wouldn't be wrong referring to any other persona game, they have good music
@@tyler-xo3rb because the 3 and 4 dont have incredible soundtracks?
(They do, you're just salty bc he has a joker pfp)
@@harrylane4 Are you high persona 3 soundtrack was fire
Mathew, after you mention Brave Exvius soundtrack being one of the best for FF, I checked it out and I completely agree with you. Any chance you'll do a video about it? It's woefully under appreciated by the looks of it
He said that ? That's brave of him lol.
I couldn't agree more, though.
I do wonder why Is it that musicians nowadays are so incredibly against melody? I see it everywhere in videogames, in Classical music, in popular music, why Is melody which, if we are being completely honest, Is by far the most memorable part of any Piece of music (outside of the emotional impact it produces) i dont mean to sound rude in any way or offend anyone in any way, but i do believe that music has in many ways become anti melody currently, which inevitably makes it on the whole less memorable, even if we have a few memorable ambient masterpieces here and there, besides i believe ambient can be achieved trough melody in a far better and far more memorable way, just look at kakariko village, its incredibly melodic in nature, and Yet its far more effective at creating an atmosphere than a lot of atmospheric music, just my two cents on the matter :)
There's a musical term called "cantabile" or singable. Because there is a distinction between _music_ and _songs._ Learning and memorizing language and melody is easier when it's imitable.
@@poodychulak that does not answer the question though, im familiar with the Term cantabille and the cantabille style btw, im a composer myself :)
the most memorable piece for me right now has to be the super mario bros jungle theme from super mario maker 2. I've been non stop humming that song
It's not that they're bad. Modern game/cinema music is a "less is most" mentality.
Think BotW, or Doom. Occasional melodies (and music in general), surrounded by mostly ambient sounds/ no music at all.
I would like to add, I'm not the biggest fan of this mentality. Some melody somewhere, is better than none, nowhere.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 It's just the differences between melodious or harmonious music, like you said though, i,'ll take melodious music over harmonius any day of the week
Leitmotifs is one of the most powerful tool a game dev can use to bring weight to a scene, it' s very sad that most developers fail to use music to their fullest potential
But the little music BOTW and Doom have is very memorable...meanwhile I don't remember the music of Red dead or COD
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 Your Black/White mentality is very problematic. Melody is not appropriate in every situation.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 Modern game/cinema music is a "less is most" mentality.
Go play any modern JRPG and tell me that
I would just like to put it out there that Final Fantasy has never stopped putting out quality music. I've been listening to "What angle wakes me" almost constantly for the past two weeks since Shadowbringers released!
Final Fantasy XIV not only has most original pieces of music in a video game, they are amazing songs.. so theres that.
Soken is insane. I don't know how he manages it.
I was coming here to mention this one. Shadowbringers has some fantastic music in it.
I can't believe this video went by in its entirety without ever mentioning the words "Final Fantasy".
This is yet just another thing that reinforces my opinion that DOOM 2016 is among the greatest games ever made
On the topic of repetition, many revere the Undertale soundtrack because of Toby Fox's work in connecting the more than one hundred pieces in the game. Things like the Napstablook fight having a role in Dummy and Spider Dance really cements the leitmotifs into the listener's thoughts.
"Game music isn't memorable anymore"
Ahem:
Disasterpeace
Darren Korb
Christopher Larkin
Lena Raine
C418
Keiichi Okabe
*micdrop*
This guy gets it.
I love that these are exactly the names that came to my mind to haha. Hype for silksong.
Gris by Berlinist
Also, The Elder Scrolls. I mean, Jeremy Soule
Game Score Fanfare Jake Kaufman.
I think it really depends on the situation within a game, as well as what kind of game it is. I like more atmospheric music when it's in a place where you can take in the scenery, like seeing the world from a cliffside, while other times I think instrumental themes work great, such as themes for individual characters or locations. I think a great example is Final Fantasy X, in which the music is a mix of instrumental and atmospheric, and really adds to the feel of the world and the fantasy world it's set in.
It's hard to agree with that idea that video game music is no longer good nor memorable, many of my favorite OST are from modern games (Undertale, Persona 5, Persona Q2, Skyrim, Axiom Verge, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, VVVVVV, The Messenger, Shovel Knight, Transformers: Devastation, Guild Wars 2)
There is just more.. .Xenoblade 2, Nier automate, Splatoon 2.. Lol there are shit tons of memorable music.
hollow knight, celeste, hotline miami, Furi, enter the gungeon, mass effect (2)... the claim that modern music doesn't have memorable tracks is total bullshit.
FFXV
Your mention of emotion made me think of Freedom Planets soundtrack. The track Major Boss Battle in particular just exudes excitement and you feel the energy building letting you know the size and seriousness of the fight, before transitioning into into a tune that lets you know that, you are the hero! You can do this!
You did an entire video on game music, you even made a point to mention start up screens in modern games, and yet you didn't mention once the absolutely generation defining and Genre conquering Music that is the Halo Opening for Halo CE, or its amazingly well done improved versions for the mainline Halo games after that?
Also like most of these videos dos games don't exist for them, even though there's so much good music on that platform. There's probably as much of it as the consoles and if you for example grew up in Eastern Europe then that was the defining sound of videogames in the 90s, not consoles.