Dear Viewers, after feedback and reflection I have removed a few minutes of this video which was talking about the value of each stop of dynamic range as a percentage of the total available dynamic range. This was a straight mathematical approach to representing ‘stops’ for example 0-10 stops, half a stop is 5% of those 10 stops. This is not the full picture when it comes to dynamic range. Dynamic range and what ‘stops’ represent in light gathering potential is a more complex matter and requires deeper explanation of the actual and real world impacts and would be better for me to represent in a more detailed approach. Thus I will create a follow up video to deeper dive into the topic. The remaining components and sentiment within remain the same and unchanged.
The internet is mad. Folks are already complaining about the R5 mark II that hasn't even been announced yet. Go out and have fun taking pictures with what you have. If you are a pro...you figured out how to make other tools work in the past before we had the amazing gear we have today.
Matt, This video is a major reason why I love your channel and have watched for years now! Your line that has stayed with me about 'use case' is so crucial and can shut out the click bait and added noise of so many! Along with you showing what these tools can do in the field and the results you get is so beneficial and enjoyable! I love Nikon and my Z9 & Z8... so amazing... for my 'use case' it doesn't get any better! Thanks so much!
I have the Z6III for a week now and I am loving it! It's an amazing upgrade over my Z6 even though that is still a very capable camera. Haters will hate, but those of us who shoot more than targets know better.
@gosman949 At this point in photography there is little "need" to upgrade. My Z6 has a ton of actuations and is a bit beat up from taking it on hundreds of hiking adventures. I purchased the Z6III because I am excited by it's many new features. I am trying all of the new focusing options right now (3D tracking is working very well for my insect macro photography). I will be trying out the pixel shift shooting next.
@@frabo1000 You may be, other than me, still a user of the Z6. I really hope that the Z7ii upgrades to the iii. I need the high megapixel count as my next camera (no not the heavy Z8 and Z9). Two Z6ers just don't make sense with the same megapixel count.
@@gosman949 I was hoping that the Z6iii would have had a slight MP bump to 30 or 33MP. I like having an all arounder camera. I have been using the Z6iii for 2 weeks now. The Z6iii is solid. I will be selling my Z6II. IT is a good camera but I wanted the focusing to match my Z8 and the Z6iii does. If you are interested in a lightweight, Landscape camera go ahead and get a Z7ii, the pricing is really good right now. IT would be nice to see a Z7iii with a higher than 45MP with Expeed 7 focusing. The Z8 is no heavier than those older Nikon FF DSLRs or My old D500. I sold some nice landscape shots on my D500 with its 20MP sensor(with lower DR even). Client bought the images did not need to know the Tech behind them. The images were properly exposed.
Another spot on video Matt! Folks want to blame a hammer for a failed job in being a screw driver. Cameras are tools, with specific strengths and weaknesses, none of which are inherently good or bad, simply they are what they are. I picked up the new Z6iii on launch day, and have been thrilled with it on every level. I kept a Z6 and Z6ii so I could have the whole set :P and am finding the differences between EXPEED 6 and 7 a LARGE differentiator between the three models. Stay real bro, love your POV!
Congrats on the new family member. These tools are outstanding, and to be able to capture images like we see in this video, with ambient street light in the rain …. Wow. Perhaps 1-2 mins setup. Which is mostly setting audio and finding the frame. The camera exposure part and focus mode takes 10 secs or less. Double wow.
This is why you’re the best photographer and content creator on TH-cam. You speak the truth and cut through the crap. Great video Matt. I always look forward to these pieces. Happy shooting. 😊
I’ve had mine a week now and this is a verrrry capable camera. Nikon has elevated their game to the point that people can no longer complain and they don’t know what to do with themselves. The DR on this camera, is more than fine. Like you eluded too, if you know how to properly use your camera, you will get a great photo in most situations. I can’t wait to put this thing through its paces! Great vid Matt…and in the rain, at 1600 iso! 👏🏻📸😎
Those that rely on clickbait titles for revenue, will always find some point to criticise.....thankfully there are other channels, like yours, where sanity prevails. Bravo!
I find it interesting that all of these "dynamic range" testers don't talk about the photographs they have taken with the Z6 III, or it's ability to take photographs. I don't think they are photographers. They just like to put down new products. To me they are like new car reviewers that don't have a drivers license. I'm enjoying my Z6 III because it's a lot easier to carry around than my Z9, and, therefore, I will capture more "photographs "than I would have without it. Like you said, "telling the story". Always enjoy your perspective Matt. Keep up the great work!
I appreciate the level headed talk about DR Matt. The Z6III is a fantastic camera for its price category and there are no practical reasons for it to be overlooked.
Tony Northrup and also Gerald Undone showed that the dynamic range of Z6 III is less then Z6 II. Both said it that this is not an issue for majority of photographers as they do potrait, wedding, event photography. People tend to panicking thinking their camera is not worth the price or faulty. Tony Northrup talked that wildlife photographers are the ones shooting in environments when you don’t control the lightning. He himself does wildlife so her remarks are not for potraits, wedding or event photographers. Wildlife photographers depends on dynamic range they push shadows and highlight regularly. Everyone knows that stacked sensors trade dynamic range for speed. It is nothing new. Nikon chosed to increase the speed of the 24MPx for having high shooting speed, faster AF and uncropped 4K @60p with low rolling shutter for video. From my point of view Nikon did the correct choice for Nikon Z6 III, a general camera. This whole discussion comes simply because people chase the perfect camera, which does not exist, but not chasing the correct camera for their uses. Nikon will introduce a Z7 III camera, not stacked with 60 Mpx, with high dynamic range and no flippy screen for photographers.
I used to admire and listen to Tony Northrup., he was a good photographer., but he seemed to change about 4 years ago., I think probably into a good money maker but, in my opinion, a terrible photographic advisor., it seemed to me like he started just promoting whatever brought in money., he did not seem to be advising what was best for his viewers/ followers, but what was best for himself. By the way I shoot some wildlife and birds in flight too, with a Z9, but I have been using a Z6 III for 3 weeks now with no DR issues at all (or autofocus issues for that matter) it seems to me like the guy is nit-picking Nikon gear for reasons of his own and, in my opinion, misguiding vulnerable people.
as a wildlife shooter, I'm rarely shooting below 800 iso. Birds in flight need that fast shutter speed, and the lenses tend to be slower. The best light and photos come at dawn and dusk, so even less light.
@@starbase218 I agree., but he has a broad audience, therefore he should be subjective across the board, not selective to his own advantage or agenda, that is not helpful or truthful to his audience, I have lost all respect for him.
@@GreatPics His Zf review was horrendous. They had the camera for 9 months and didn't even mention the subject detection in manual focus. The first camera ever to do that. You would think that would be a major point in a review. I'm guessing it's because Nikon hurt their feelings at some point and with that particular feature, why would you ever spend 10K on a Leica FF camera ever again? I have zero respect for Toneh
Thanks Matt, love your honesty and perspectives; the Z6 III is a great photography tool!! I typically shoot at EV +4 with ISO 100 to 400 (non-moving subject), and as you say, exposure and focus are VERY easy with an EVF. 5% DR loss at this ISO doesn't bother me. The Z6 III is my next buy.
At last the voice of reason not those aiming for click bait. It is a pity that the internet attracts the ‘brand die hards’ who seek to knock other brands. All modern cameras really do an excellent job, as someone who started out with black and white film 50+ years ago we are now in a great time for photography with the huge developments in digital imaging and camera technology. No camera is going to be 100% at all tasks in all lighting situations as we do not need that, different cameras are for users with different requirements. For me as an amateur the Z6iii offers so many improvements from my D500 so I am not really concerned about some minor imperfection on a test chart. The joy of photography is the satisfaction of creating an image to capture a moment and a memory, this is not something that you will ever find on a test chart. Really enjoying your channel as a new subscriber, been following the videos in the run up to the Z6iii release. Keep up the good work.
I've purchased the Z6III the day it was announced, to replace my existing Z6II. The reason I chose to update my camera was for the improved auto-focus and fps for wildlife photography. I photograph first thing in the morning and last thing before sunset, in varied lighting conditions and have found it to be an amazing improvement over my Z6II. I still have my Z6II and will use it as a backup body when going out on safari's
Another overblown non-issue fueled by click-baiters. Thank you for dissecting this and doing the basic math that they seem to struggle with. Appreciate your experienced insight and couldn't agree more here. Heading out to shoot now 🙂👏🏻
There are certain You Tubers who hate Nikon. Best to ignore them, but they have millions of followers. When Nikon makes an amazing camera that surpasses their favorite brand they feel the need to work very very very hard to find something wrong with it to ease their cognitive dissonance and convince themselves that their hate of Nikon is still justified.
Thank you to come back to the basics of photography and why we love capturing moments with whatever camera we have. I have ordered my Z6iii to replace my « old » D610 and I cannot wait to receive it and enjoy taking stunning pictures and videos. Simply Thank You 😃
I can't believe some people are trying to make a big deal about it having half a stop less dynamic range. Something that's barely noticeable in actual use. It really comes across as certain people trying to find any tiny fault with the camera - probably in an attempt to justify why other brands are not offering as good a camera at the same price point...
Yes!! Tony & Chelsea are just mad because they didn't get a pre-production 6III to test in advance so they want to bash Nikon with some useless dynamic range test.. smh!
It depends. I don’t normally carry around graduated ND filters, and so for landscape shots I often have to dodge and burn, as Ansel Adams called it. Because that’s what we’re talking about. And if anyone wants to argue that Ansel Adams didn’t expose correctly… yeah good luck with that. Not saying that I always push 5 stops. But I think sometimes I have pushed shadows quite a lot. But Tony says the Z6 III has a “serious problem”, whereas he has never said that about the R6 II (which tries to hide it) or the RP (where the problem is far bigger).
@@starbase218 I understand where you're coming from, however I'm inclined to say in most situations 0.5 a stop will make very little difference - particularly as that stop is getting into the noise floor. I also think it's worth keeping in mind that photographers like Ansel Adams used B&W film with around 10 stops of latitude in the highlights and very little in the shadows - which the Z6 III far exceeds...
This happens with others cameras brands too like panasonic for example. Panasonic was lacking of autofocus, when that all the other features were impressive, now panasonic has phase detect autofocus that being for the first time in panasonic cameras works really impressive I'd say better than canon cause I've seen some videos comparing each other, but some youtubers still find flaws there and there and in that and etc because that's what they do. I personally think that camera rewiew has to change or this goes always wrong.
Well explained and presented. Thank you for sharing these very relevant points. I must agree we humans tends to focus on the specsheet and forgets about telling a story in our photos. I will remember this advice ❤.
I know my comment is a week late Matt but I have to add my two pennyworth... This Video is BRILLIANT. The one thing I love about your videos Matt is you tell it like it is. DON'T EVER CHANGE !!! To all the Comparison Chart only critics, all the Nikon Knockers, and 99% of the Moan and Groan brigade... Why not go out and Buy a Z6 III or, if you can't afford it, and I suspect there are many, Hire one for a week! And Use the thing ! (I had to edit those last 4 words above). Photography is about what the finished image looks like, regardless of camera or lens you use. Maybe think of it this way... William Shakespeare was one of the best writers who ever lived on this Earth. Did anyone ever ask Shakespeare what sort of Pen he used ? I think not.
Im with you 100%. When the only story you can tell, is about how a camera isn't as good as another for some particular metric. You need to go outside your door and actually use it to tell a worthwhile story.
The negative people will always find something to complain about instead of looking at all the benefits. It's how they roll . Keep keeping it real Matt. Cheers👍
The DR hit job is just another opportunity to create negative content. It creates engagement and gives non photographers a way to satiate their egos since they can't compete in a discussion of output. The Nikon D4, D5, D6 all have lower dynamic range than the Z6 III. The Canon flagship 1D X line all have lower dynamic range, until you get to the 1D X MK III which has baked in noise reduction, similar to many of their mirrorless line of cameras. If you're baking in noise reduction to increase your DR, then we're no longer comparing apples to apples. The point, the difference is so minute that it's a non factor when it comes to the final product. I read a comment below that said much of this is born from the desire to have a perfect camera. There's some truth to that since every spec and every feature will be scrutinized and if it's not leading the industry, then it can't be the perfect camera. The problem with this is that there are always tradeoffs which is why there are so many options to choose from. Ironically, when perfection is near, the argument then switches to one of size and weight. At the end of the day (hate this phrase) nobody really wants a perfect camera as so much of the fun is in the chase, the experimentation and the collecting. ✌
Thanks for being so reasonable. Image quality involves color science and tweaking of sensors too. I love the old Nikon Df sensor (same as D4 if I remember correctly) for that reason. Same as audio: lower distortion is not the goal, audio quality is what you hear. So, the question to me is what the files look like and are they more pleasing to the eye.
Exactly, if you can't get a good exposure with this camera, you suck. Back in the film days, color slide film only had 5 stops of dynamic range and people are now complaining about having 10.46 stops instead of 11.26.
My research suggests that Kodachrome 64, Agfachrome 64 and Ilford FP4 (my favorite) all had about 8 stops of dynamic range. I worked hard to extend my B&W dynamic range with careful developing and printing.
Thank you, Matt. I follow many photographers, and I'm amazed at how good your videos have gotten - you mastered your unique style. You beat any chart with your scene selection. The street light and even a car's highlight behind you was the real test, and the result was amazing! Very clever!
The Z6III is very interesting and it's great to see Nikon continue to bring out very strong camera and lenses but I probably will not get one because I like the 45 MP size sensor whether I need it or not and I love my Z8. Always appreciate your perspective Matt.
I remember doing clip test on E6 film because it only had 4 or 5 stops of dynamic range. Also did clip tests on b&w (which had a lot more DR like Pan-X) when I pushed it. Remember Ansel Adams Zone System. You can't fool light, true to this day even though sensors have improved a great deal in the past 24 years.
I'm an enthusiast (unpaid, non-professional) photographer that shoots a little bit of everything: studio macro, astro, moonlit landscapes, portraits, wildlife, spherical panoramas, etc. I sometimes do some pretty wild stuff in post like pushing exposure by 6 EV, significant cropping, etc. The most challenging task for my setup is wildlife photography, especially small birds at long distances in poor light. I have a Z9 (flagship FF) and a D7200 (enthusiast class APS-C), and using the same 600mm lens the Z9 is technically *worse* than the D7200 when shooting small birds that are 70m+ away. The dynamic range is similar but the per-pixel noise is worse on the Z9. Both images are heavily cropped, eg. to ~20MP (from 24MP) on the D7200 and ~16MP (from 46MP) on the Z9 to get the same framing. With that said I would never use the D7200 for this task. Although the images are theoretically worse on the Z9 that doesn't take into account all of the other improvements like IBIS, shot speed, FOCUS, etc. The Z6iii is similar. There *are* tradeoffs with the Z6iii but for 99% of people those tradeoffs are worthwhile. 1/2 stop of DR and higher noise could be a deal breaker for some but the improvements in AF (and a lot of other things) more than make up for it. The noise issue is also partly mitigated by the noise being less patterned.
I did some tests today, and it’s not even worth rushing out the video on my channel lol under reasonable conditions it’s seriously a nothing sandwich. No one makes a 7 stops screw up.
Hello Matt, thank you for your helpful video. I share your views, but I also like to deal with criticism. Regarding opinions on the tests: I find it disadvantageous to pit real-world photography and laboratory tests against each other. Both methods have their pros and cons depending on the subject matter, and they can be useful based on personal priorities. Fortunately, everyone is free to disregard one of the two methods, perhaps to ignore certain facts or because it is genuinely irrelevant to their personal priorities. However, even in the latter case, I see no reason to downplay an existing problem. Regarding the -5 stops: Of course, in practice, one doesn't intentionally shoot at -5EV. But this is ultimately just to illustrate how the 100% view is used to compare, for example, chromatic aberrations. I wouldn't gain real insights about a car's quality from a crash test at only 10 mph either. In daylight with high dynamic range, where BKT isn't possible, I often exceed +2EV when locally brightening dark areas. Sure, maybe this only happens in 5 out of 100 shots, but if the photographer is then unhappy with the result, it doesn't help him that the autofocus and many other features of the Z6iii are three times better. Regarding Tony: Yes, one has to be careful that a test isn't deliberately focused only on the one weakness of the newer product. (It's no secret that, for example, in lens flare comparisons, one might specifically choose the one unfavorable angle of the new lens to make it look bad. Hence, counter-tests are necessary that consider all angles). Currently, however, I find more videos that support Tony's observations. The noise comparisons I've seen are about -0.66 EV worse than the Z6ii. Since I already own nine Z lenses and would like to stay with Nikon for other reasons, I still have some hope that the issue can be mitigated with a firmware update.
This is another Great Video !!!! You make a point that even non-photogs. should be able to understand !!!! The Z6III is a great all-around camera, and I LUV IT !!!! :) There are people who have nothing better to do but to be Haters..... SAD.... But the internet allows, mean n hateful (maybe jealous) people to spew..... Thanks Matt :) :) :)
Thanks Matt. Excellent. I have my own take on this FUD from the usual suspects that I'm saving for my one month assessment. Flak jackets recommended. 😀
Gratitude for speaking on this trend in the discussion. Better to discuss a tangible camera and lens in hand than speak on rumored flagship models that will now not be available, IN HAND, for two Summer Olympiads?! From an engineer that is enjoying the lessons I am learning using a z 30 on my Sirui 24mm f/2.8 1.33 [using the manual mode that Hudson Henry mentioned for the zF?] and the NIKKOR 40mm f/2.
Amazing how all these new photographers are professionals now on what makes a great image. Award winning photos have been taken with much, much less. Choose a camera and system that is comfortable for you and work on taking great photos. Literally stop complaining about the gear because it’s the best it’s ever been!
Great perspective. For someone who already owns a Z8 for sports and Landscapes and a Z6ii for portability and low light fun pictures and who never does video, I'm waiting until my Z6ii dies before I fork over more money on a Z6iii. You've helped me see that telling a story is more important than technical aspects. If I think 8 stop IBIS in low light will help tell a story, I will consider the Z6iii or maybe the future Z6iv. I'm going to FOCUS (pun intended) on getting lenses to help me tell that story. I've never owned a 1.2 lens. The 135 f/1.8 also interests me. In the old days, we all put our money in great glass and solid bodies, like the Nikon F2, we were depending on Kodak, Agfa and Fuji to help us with resolution. I realize now that the film has been replaced by sensor selection in the Body that fits us. Your "Story Telling" comment hits home. Thanks!!!
Thanks for calling this "controversy" out for what is. A whole bunch of nothing. The Z6iii is a prosumer/advanced amateur level camera with lot of pro level abilities.for it's cost it is outstanding. No one in its target audience is going to look at an image and think 'this would be a great photo if it had just a little more dynamic range'. Like you said Matt, it's all about the story. Story telling, capturing emotion, is a photographer skill, not a camera attribute. So all this noise about slightly less dynamic range is meaningless.
The difference I see in the DR on the charts is not significant anyway, so I don’t know what the fuss is about. The measurebators such as horsey shacky and others just have a bit too much time on their hands. Bottom line is, are you shooting for charts or are you shooting for art anyway? I’m interested in the art of photography. I DO like to know the specs of the camera before I buy it, but the specs don’t always equate to the best photos. You need ‘enough’ specs to get great files to work with, but the sensors in the latest cameras are all enough to create magical images, if you can capture it. Or you can shoot birds at the bird feeder all day and post that on dpreview, if that’s your thing. Anyway, the DR in the Z6 III is not much different than the II and it’s definitely enough to get fantastic images.
J'ai le mien depuis 2 semaines et j'ai fait des photos de concerts dans des conditions difficiles. Je n'ai jamais eu de problème de plage dynamique de bruit ou autre. Je trouve au contraire que par rapport au Z6II il offre plus de potentiel et globalement de meilleurs résultats. Il faudrait que les détracteurs apprennent avant tout à faire des photos plutôt que de dénigrer inutilement un matériel qui dans de bonnes conditions d'utilisation donne d'excellents résultats.
Matt, I agree with all you stated. I’ve used my Z6iii from the release date and feel that it works perfectly for my needs. I mainly shoot musicians invariably in low light and i am nearly always using high iso, the camera has not let me down with this scenario. occasionally i shoot wildlife in daylight and this has been a dream to use with the 180-600mm nikkor z lens. Paired with the nikon 35mm 1.8 is also joy to use. all in all i’m very pleased with this camera and it is a good companion to the Z8. Thank for your video… I’ll keep an eye out for your future vids…
A nice chat with a cinematic ending, bravo Matt! None of the DR wingers would be out in that rain... I love the end music, but when the first note came in, my first thought was, that sounds big, is he going to move away from the road, LOL.
I’m not even that mad about Northrup judging the Z6 III so harshly. I mean, I don’t agree, but if that’s how he judges cameras, ok, fine. However the R6 II applies noise reduction at its lowest ISO settings, artificially increasing the DR score. And the RP has far worse dynamic range than the Z6 III anyway. But I don’t remember him making a similar video about those cameras. Having said that, you made a video about the Z6 III being a stop better than the Z6 II for high ISO performance. That has turned out to be false as well. But in that case, the 1 stop difference in noise performance did seem to matter to you. Yet a 1/2-3/4 stop difference in DR does not. One thing this whole discussion has done for me btw, is make clear how DR is different and connected to high ISO performance. It has been quite insightful.
Oh for everyone else: he asked the same when I raised this point in a comment to Tony's video. I found the measurements on the website that Tony actually uses in his video, and I told him that. But apparently that's not enough. He dismissed it as "some website", when Tony's whole video was triggered by data from that website. So... yeah. Draw your own conclusions I'd say.
As an original z6 user this is a trade I’d definitely make if I was going to upgrade to the z6iii, it’s a complete no brainer. For me the improved auto focus alone is something I will notice every time vs a slight difference in dynamic range when exposure is off.
I’ve tried the camera and it’s brilliant! My price point is more in 2k-2.2k range. Wish Nikon had a cheaper model for much newer, yet serious and committed people
Matt, I totally agree with you. These complainers remind me of the DPR wingers: "My camera weighs weighs 322grams, the new version is 328grams! It's too heavy!" Take this lot back to film, ... all manual. They would probanly take up knitting! (Light weight needles of course) Back to a bit of serious, .... I have never seen complainers post their work? Seems to me just another branch of the gossip club. They are found in every activity without exception. I wouldn't waste my time Matt. Clearly they are Not photographers! Pictcha takers at best where RAW is only discussed in terms of the nude beach?
Ex TH-camr Daniel Milnor once spoke three words and often repeated them,which I try to live by every time I pick up one of my cameras. “Light, timing and composition” all that matters.
Thanks Matt, 👍👏 brilliant video, I hooked up on a Z6 III page on Facebook, and all I see is charts & comments ripping apart a camera’s ability. I am from the film days too (similar age I reckon (56) ), I’d like to see these people’s reactions to pushing an Ilford Delta 3200 to 6400…🙀 Must have taken some restraint to be that polite for YT…🤣👍
@@gosman949 Not really... Especially at 800+ they're identical. The question I ask is, how badly did you have to miss the exposure on your initial shot to notice that DR difference? (6.3 stops according to TN) If you're recovering shadows to the point where you notice a difference, is the shot even usable? IMO the answer is no... for either camera. The fact of the matter is Sensor DR peaked a while ago... and now speed is the appreciable gains lie. If it's a 2/3 stop DR penalty, you're not going to notice that 99.999% of the time, but you will immediately notice the faster sensor / better AF.
Art of photography can be done with many types of equipment. I think what Nikon Z cameras can do is inspiring. I use Nikon Z 5 and want a new Nikon Z cameras but until I can get one, I'm using the best tool available. Z 6 III would be better in every way I think as you pointed out In real usage. I don't understand math so well and charts are not so inspiring to read. :)
Outstanding. The technonerds drank the Kool-Aid. Any photographer that worked in the film era knows that digital has eliminated sooo many constraints. In my photography, design of a grayscale image tells a story.
So l in the Canon system but before the dynamic range issues came up l was considering getting a Z6iii with a 180/600mm & after the dynamic range issues came up l am still considering getting a Z6iii & 180/600mm.😃
Hi Matt, Edward here. Nice to meet you on the Melbourne Z6III hands on session last Friday. Pity that I do not have the time to stay till the end. Since it is on the topic on dynamic range. How is this compared to Z6? I moved to Z6 last year from D610. I found that the dynamic range has slight improvement but not by a lot. But the focusing capability in darker environment is far better than D610. So I assume that the -10EV is talking about focus capability and not the dynamic range.
My personal take on the Z6 series (and the Zf) is this: if you need maximum DR, get the Z6 II or Zf (same sensor, but the Zf has faster AF). If you need the best AF for $2500, you'll probably have to sacrifice a bit and get a Z6 III. If you can live with the form factor and lack of extended video recording, the Zf is a good compromise between AF performance and image quality (and one reason I decided to just keep my Zf and not bother with a Z6 III myself--it's a well rounded camera from an IQ and AF performance standpoint, although the design is perhaps not to everyone's taste being a retro design). But if you look past that or can get over it, then it can be a good bargain that falls pretty much between a Z6 II and Z6 III in terms of performance and cost. Yes the Z6 III may have some more noise at higher ISOs and may have lower DR, but you're trading that off for a massive improvement in AF over the Z6 II, so you have to weigh those out. There is no real "right or wrong" answer here -- it's what do you need (what priorities do you have for features), and what are you willing to compromise on?
Thanks Matt. It is amazing how the TH-camrs are ripping the R5 Mark II now. They go from carcass to carcass striving for relevancy. I appreciate your reality based comments.
I think the Z6III is a great camera and if I had the money I would definitely buy it. I prefer that "sweet spot" of 24MP, though I understand other people want different things from their cameras than I do.
I would go even further Matt. After ISO 160, you are better off for both the Z6ii and Z6iii going to ISO 800 because of dual ISO. ISO 640 is the equivalent of c.ISO 2,700. So unless are shooting at ISO 160 or below, there is no difference in dynamic range.
I am sorry Matt... I may not understand it all... What are the people criticising the DR of the Z6III sensor actually talking about?... The lack of ability to actually stretch their files by 5 stops instead of 4.5 stops when shooting below 800 ISO... Is this really what the debate is all about??... If I would care about such thing, and put in perspective what this sensor actually brings to the table vs the Z6II (for which there has been no DR debate if I rememeber well)... I would actually be happy to "pay that price" of 1/2 stop of DR... Absolutely ridiculous... World is MAD!! Great one once again Matt!! I hope you dried...😂
Just would like to point out that the scan speed is a separate function from AF. The two aren't related. Case in point, the slower scanning Zf has equal (or better?) AF than the Z9 and perhaps the Z6III, even though they use single or dual Expeed 7 processors.
Hi Eric. Thanks for commenting. AF is directly related to sensor speed. I’m not sure what you are citing in regard to Zf having better Af than Z9. There is no camera with dual Expeed 7.
Thanks for the reply,@@MattIrwinPhotography It's been a long day, and I meant dual Expeed 6 and botched half my post about the Z6 and Z6II for some reason. I intended to tie it in that the Z6 has a single Expeed 6 processor, and the Z6II has dual. Respectfully, AF is not directly related to sensor speed on Z bodies as they are two different functions for the processor. When comparing the various scan speeds and AF performance in the Z bodies, there isn't a correlation that shows that faster scan speeds automatically result in improved AF. In fact, the Zf has a slightly slower scan speed than the Z6II but as we know, has superior AF. The Z6I and Z6II have the same sensor scan speed but different AF speeds. The Zf has slower sensor scan speed of the Z6I yet has phenomenal AF that is on par with the blisteringly fast scan speed of the Z9. The Z9 has four times the sensor scan speed of the Z6III (and nearly twice the megapixels) but the AF is the same. This is why I disagree that AF is directly related to sensor speed. People like myself who use the Zf and Z9 back to back on a professional level, including our Canadian Nikon reps, report that the Zf is stickier in daylight than the Z9, less erratic, and because of -10ev, is superior in low light compared to the Z9. If you use the 'Search This Group' function in the various Nikon Facebook groups, you'll find this has been mentioned numerous times. Cheers and thanks for the great videos!
@ericmilner4367 Hi Eric I have too spoken to Nikon about AF and sensor speed. It would seem our information differs. As for what specifically the ZF is doing I can’t comment on.
Thanks Matt. IF I had the cash, I would buy the Z6iii tomorrow. I love shooting in low light and often use ISOs around 2000 -4000 on my Z6. Since the DR reduction is at ISOs lower than this, its not an issue for me. Yes it would be good to have slightly better DR at base ISO but how much would that have added to the price? I get the idea that some people want $10k+ specs for not much money. As Mr Irwin always stresses, it's all about use case. And we thpught the camera wars were over. SIGH
I guess it is about expectations. Everyone expected the camera to be a lowlight beast, especially since it has yet another iteration of 24MP. Now don't get me wrong, I don't say, that we should expect this. And of course you are right: photography is not about half a stop of dr, but still: wouldn't we love it, if it was the other way rounf?
Hi Matt agree with you 110%, I commented on this Dynamic Range Fiasco on my live stream last night and talked about dynamic range quite a bit and how you make adjustments within your camera to compensate if needed since their are cameras that have much lower dynamic range that produce great results. My guests who have decades of experience (several professional photographers) also commented and provided insightful commentary. If all one has to do is be a techie nerd (which I can be to a certain extent) and then weaponize results that are basically inconsequential in the real world, you are doing a dis-service to the photographic community. Go out and shoot and enjoy your tools and improve your craft, if you just watch all the videos on this subject you are not becoming a better photographer, you are hurting the industry implying camera XYZ is not good enough which is unfortunate because some believe your BS and miss out on buying a camera that many say is Best in Class. Look at those that are displaying photo's from the camera which speak much louder that anything else. Take care Matt and thanks. - Jeff
I still shoot film, for fun, regularly. Every time I do, I am reminder how amazing every single modern camera is today. This DR “issue” in the Z6III is nothing of concern in your actual use of the machine. I am not buying one, at least for now, because I love my Zf/Zfc/Z7II combo for my amateur work. I still regularly create lovely images with a D200, D300, D700….being there, nice light, composition and story telling are, by far, the more important factors on creating good photographic art!
A couple of things. First, dynamic range has little to do with image quality, much more to do with what used to be called exposure latitude. Second, the 'gain' explanation of variable ISO is basically wrong. If you remember how with a negative process the tonality could be adjusted in printing, then variable ISO in digital cameras is like that. The tonality gets adjusted in processing. The usual rule for exposure is to use the largest exposure that meets your DOF and motion blur requirements in the available light.
First of all Yeah... I agree with you. Storytelling is key. Without that you've got nothing. That's the difference between a beautiful (but insignificant) shot and a great one. Secondly, I've watched a test and the Z63 was actually performing better than the predecessor (I'm talking about the sensor obviously). Thirdly, if anyone has watched Sony&honey's test well you should know that: he took a photo of a photo but the original shot was done on a Canon camera (notoriously bad for dynamic range) and it's probably over a 10 year old shot! And then he complains that the Z63 isn't doing 'that well'? Was he kidding us or what? I'm sure that no one is going off by 4 or 5 stops (as if he/she does, change job mate!). Well put Matt. - ha... and yes, take advantage of the Z8 sale although the Z63 has indeed A LOT going for herself!
I seems to me, that i have seen every Story 10 times before. What changes is the technical quality. So the challenge is to find/create a new story and nobody will care about technical perfection. If you an existing product against an imaginary perfect one, it will loose all time. Compare it against to what you have or need and then you can decide if its a winner or not.
I can see that you are abit agitated by whoever that may have commented on your previous video about the Nikon Z 6iii. Just ignore them as they might be just worshippers than a user. Every camera make are manufactured for a reason and purpose, be it Nikon or Canon or Sony or Leica or Fujifilm. It really depends on individual needs and budget. Otherwise, those camera bands manufacturers can just make 1 model each to fit all users. I’m also contemplating between the Z 6iii or Z 8. So thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions.
Use the gear you want, it’s your choice. But it is a fact that the Z6iii, Z8 and Z9 have less DR at low ISO than the Z7ii and the D850. I shoot landscape mainly and I prioritise DR, for that reason I feel that the Z6iii is not for me. That’s the beauty of living in a first world country with plenty of choice and in a democracy with free choice and free markets. Stay safe and happy 👍
I think we will see a price drop (or extended sale) of the Z6III within the first 12-18 months. The Z8 has now been on sale for several weeks in the US for $3499. I’m not in any rush so will wait, and see if Nikon releases anything else in that period I may even prefer - Z5II or Z50II (Z80?)..
I have a z6 II and a z8. I'm covered using either camera. But I am considering seeking my z6 II next year and getting the z6 III. The z6 II is lighter and has smaller files. I mostly use it for milky way and street photography. It was my all rounder until I got the z8. The ISO performance was what I was more concerned with because of high ISO for astro photos. I shoot at ISO 6400 a lot. But it sounds like it preforms the same as the z6 II at that range. I have the z8 for landscape, birds and action. I like my z6 II but I'm not fond of the small grip. And I would like a camera with a fully articulating screen. I have a Canon T6s that has one. I have a question for you about shooting film. I just bought a Canon AE-1 back in April. Explain what you mean about shooting at a higher ISO. I know you can pull or push film on the exposure in the dark room. I just don't understand what you mean by shooting at a higher ISO. Do you mean adjusting the ISO dial to what you need regardless of the film speed? I know seeing the ISO has something to do with the light meter and how it calculates with the aperture and shutter speed. And wouldn't you have to shoot the whole roll of film the same way before telling them to push it 1 or 2 stops? I grew up with point and shoot 110 and 35mm cameras. I never had to worry about the settings with those cameras.
Matt, how does the dynamic range of the viewing medium such as computer screen, tv screen, photographic print paper, photographic inkjet or laser printer impact the effect the camera's dynamic range has on the viewer's experience? I really liked this video, but I think we've given up our love of dynamic range by moving to digital media. The same is true for music, I believe. We've given up our audio reproductive range for the convenience of listening to digital files rather than analog reproduction and rather than live music. Years ago I purchased some Zone 6 prints to have an easy way to appreciate excellent B&W print dynamic range. How can I do that today in the color digital world?
I hope the Z7iii, when/if it comes, will be a photo centric camera with no stacking sensor. So basically the Z7ii with better autofocus and the same good video quality like Z8. I know there will be rolling shutter but the z7 must differentiate from the z8.
Dear Viewers, after feedback and reflection I have removed a few minutes of this video which was talking about the value of each stop of dynamic range as a percentage of the total available dynamic range. This was a straight mathematical approach to representing ‘stops’ for example 0-10 stops, half a stop is 5% of those 10 stops. This is not the full picture when it comes to dynamic range. Dynamic range and what ‘stops’ represent in light gathering potential is a more complex matter and requires deeper explanation of the actual and real world impacts and would be better for me to represent in a more detailed approach. Thus I will create a follow up video to deeper dive into the topic. The remaining components and sentiment within remain the same and unchanged.
The internet is mad. Folks are already complaining about the R5 mark II that hasn't even been announced yet. Go out and have fun taking pictures with what you have. If you are a pro...you figured out how to make other tools work in the past before we had the amazing gear we have today.
Matt, This video is a major reason why I love your channel and have watched for years now! Your line that has stayed with me about 'use case' is so crucial and can shut out the click bait and added noise of so many! Along with you showing what these tools can do in the field and the results you get is so beneficial and enjoyable! I love Nikon and my Z9 & Z8... so amazing... for my 'use case' it doesn't get any better! Thanks so much!
Thanks Sandra. 😀 what are some of your favourite lenses these days?
@@MattIrwinPhotography You're welcome! The list is long, but some of my favorites are the Z 24-70 F4, 24-120, 105 & 100-400.
I have the Z6III for a week now and I am loving it! It's an amazing upgrade over my Z6 even though that is still a very capable camera.
Haters will hate, but those of us who shoot more than targets know better.
I have the Z6 too and its dynamic range is better than the Z6iii. So, for landscapes and still shots, why upgrade?
@@gosman949Only if you need such subject tracking and video needs.😊
@gosman949 At this point in photography there is little "need" to upgrade. My Z6 has a ton of actuations and is a bit beat up from taking it on hundreds of hiking adventures. I purchased the Z6III because I am excited by it's many new features. I am trying all of the new focusing options right now (3D tracking is working very well for my insect macro photography). I will be trying out the pixel shift shooting next.
@@frabo1000 You may be, other than me, still a user of the Z6. I really hope that the Z7ii upgrades to the iii. I need the high megapixel count as my next camera (no not the heavy Z8 and Z9). Two Z6ers just don't make sense with the same megapixel count.
@@gosman949 I was hoping that the Z6iii would have had a slight MP bump to 30 or 33MP. I like having an all arounder camera. I have been using the Z6iii for 2 weeks now. The Z6iii is solid. I will be selling my Z6II. IT is a good camera but I wanted the focusing to match my Z8 and the Z6iii does.
If you are interested in a lightweight, Landscape camera go ahead and get a Z7ii, the pricing is really good right now. IT would be nice to see a Z7iii with a higher than 45MP with Expeed 7 focusing.
The Z8 is no heavier than those older Nikon FF DSLRs or My old D500. I sold some nice landscape shots on my D500 with its 20MP sensor(with lower DR even). Client bought the images did not need to know the Tech behind them. The images were properly exposed.
Another spot on video Matt! Folks want to blame a hammer for a failed job in being a screw driver. Cameras are tools, with specific strengths and weaknesses, none of which are inherently good or bad, simply they are what they are. I picked up the new Z6iii on launch day, and have been thrilled with it on every level. I kept a Z6 and Z6ii so I could have the whole set :P and am finding the differences between EXPEED 6 and 7 a LARGE differentiator between the three models. Stay real bro, love your POV!
Congrats on the new family member. These tools are outstanding, and to be able to capture images like we see in this video, with ambient street light in the rain …. Wow. Perhaps 1-2 mins setup. Which is mostly setting audio and finding the frame. The camera exposure part and focus mode takes 10 secs or less. Double wow.
This is why you’re the best photographer and content creator on TH-cam. You speak the truth and cut through the crap. Great video Matt. I always look forward to these pieces. Happy shooting. 😊
Cheers Joe.
I’ve had mine a week now and this is a verrrry capable camera. Nikon has elevated their game to the point that people can no longer complain and they don’t know what to do with themselves.
The DR on this camera, is more than fine.
Like you eluded too, if you know how to properly use your camera, you will get a great photo in most situations.
I can’t wait to put this thing through its paces! Great vid Matt…and in the rain, at 1600 iso! 👏🏻📸😎
My happy place. ⛈️
Those that rely on clickbait titles for revenue, will always find some point to criticise.....thankfully there are other channels, like yours, where sanity prevails. Bravo!
I find it interesting that all of these "dynamic range" testers don't talk about the photographs they have taken with the Z6 III, or it's ability to take photographs. I don't think they are photographers. They just like to put down new products. To me they are like new car reviewers that don't have a drivers license. I'm enjoying my Z6 III because it's a lot easier to carry around than my Z9, and, therefore, I will capture more "photographs "than I would have without it. Like you said, "telling the story". Always enjoy your perspective Matt. Keep up the great work!
I appreciate the level headed talk about DR Matt. The Z6III is a fantastic camera for its price category and there are no practical reasons for it to be overlooked.
Tony Northrup and also Gerald Undone showed that the dynamic range of Z6 III is less then Z6 II. Both said it that this is not an issue for majority of photographers as they do potrait, wedding, event photography. People tend to panicking thinking their camera is not worth the price or faulty.
Tony Northrup talked that wildlife photographers are the ones shooting in environments when you don’t control the lightning. He himself does wildlife so her remarks are not for potraits, wedding or event photographers. Wildlife photographers depends on dynamic range they push shadows and highlight regularly.
Everyone knows that stacked sensors trade dynamic range for speed. It is nothing new. Nikon chosed to increase the speed of the 24MPx for having high shooting speed, faster AF and uncropped 4K @60p with low rolling shutter for video. From my point of view Nikon did the correct choice for Nikon Z6 III, a general camera.
This whole discussion comes simply because people chase the perfect camera, which does not exist, but not chasing the correct camera for their uses.
Nikon will introduce a Z7 III camera, not stacked with 60 Mpx, with high dynamic range and no flippy screen for photographers.
I used to admire and listen to Tony Northrup., he was a good photographer., but he seemed to change about 4 years ago., I think probably into a good money maker but, in my opinion, a terrible photographic advisor., it seemed to me like he started just promoting whatever brought in money., he did not seem to be advising what was best for his viewers/ followers, but what was best for himself. By the way I shoot some wildlife and birds in flight too, with a Z9, but I have been using a Z6 III for 3 weeks now with no DR issues at all (or autofocus issues for that matter) it seems to me like the guy is nit-picking Nikon gear for reasons of his own and, in my opinion, misguiding vulnerable people.
as a wildlife shooter, I'm rarely shooting below 800 iso. Birds in flight need that fast shutter speed, and the lenses tend to be slower. The best light and photos come at dawn and dusk, so even less light.
@@GreatPics He just seems very selective, I think, in his concerns. Which over the last years seems to always turn out bad for Nikon.
@@starbase218 I agree., but he has a broad audience, therefore he should be subjective across the board, not selective to his own advantage or agenda, that is not helpful or truthful to his audience, I have lost all respect for him.
@@GreatPics His Zf review was horrendous. They had the camera for 9 months and didn't even mention the subject detection in manual focus. The first camera ever to do that. You would think that would be a major point in a review. I'm guessing it's because Nikon hurt their feelings at some point and with that particular feature, why would you ever spend 10K on a Leica FF camera ever again? I have zero respect for Toneh
Thanks Matt, love your honesty and perspectives; the Z6 III is a great photography tool!! I typically shoot at EV +4 with ISO 100 to 400 (non-moving subject), and as you say, exposure and focus are VERY easy with an EVF. 5% DR loss at this ISO doesn't bother me. The Z6 III is my next buy.
At last the voice of reason not those aiming for click bait.
It is a pity that the internet attracts the ‘brand die hards’ who seek to knock other brands.
All modern cameras really do an excellent job, as someone who started out with black and white film 50+ years ago we are now in a great time for photography with the huge developments in digital imaging and camera technology.
No camera is going to be 100% at all tasks in all lighting situations as we do not need that, different cameras are for users with different requirements.
For me as an amateur the Z6iii offers so many improvements from my D500 so I am not really concerned about some minor imperfection on a test chart.
The joy of photography is the satisfaction of creating an image to capture a moment and a memory, this is not something that you will ever find on a test chart.
Really enjoying your channel as a new subscriber, been following the videos in the run up to the Z6iii release. Keep up the good work.
The internet/ TH-cam :- those who can not do. Teach ,those who can not teach . criticise 😁 Thanks Matt. Voice of
reason
I've purchased the Z6III the day it was announced, to replace my existing Z6II. The reason I chose to update my camera was for the improved auto-focus and fps for wildlife photography. I photograph first thing in the morning and last thing before sunset, in varied lighting conditions and have found it to be an amazing improvement over my Z6II. I still have my Z6II and will use it as a backup body when going out on safari's
Another overblown non-issue fueled by click-baiters. Thank you for dissecting this and doing the basic math that they seem to struggle with. Appreciate your experienced insight and couldn't agree more here. Heading out to shoot now 🙂👏🏻
There are certain You Tubers who hate Nikon. Best to ignore them, but they have millions of followers. When Nikon makes an amazing camera that surpasses their favorite brand they feel the need to work very very very hard to find something wrong with it to ease their cognitive dissonance and convince themselves that their hate of Nikon is still justified.
Thank you to come back to the basics of photography and why we love capturing moments with whatever camera we have. I have ordered my Z6iii to replace my « old » D610 and I cannot wait to receive it and enjoy taking stunning pictures and videos. Simply Thank You 😃
100% right. Thanks for keeping things in perspective.
I can't believe some people are trying to make a big deal about it having half a stop less dynamic range. Something that's barely noticeable in actual use.
It really comes across as certain people trying to find any tiny fault with the camera - probably in an attempt to justify why other brands are not offering as good a camera at the same price point...
Yes!! Tony & Chelsea are just mad because they didn't get a pre-production 6III to test in advance so they want to bash Nikon with some useless dynamic range test.. smh!
It depends. I don’t normally carry around graduated ND filters, and so for landscape shots I often have to dodge and burn, as Ansel Adams called it. Because that’s what we’re talking about. And if anyone wants to argue that Ansel Adams didn’t expose correctly… yeah good luck with that. Not saying that I always push 5 stops. But I think sometimes I have pushed shadows quite a lot.
But Tony says the Z6 III has a “serious problem”, whereas he has never said that about the R6 II (which tries to hide it) or the RP (where the problem is far bigger).
@@starbase218 I understand where you're coming from, however I'm inclined to say in most situations 0.5 a stop will make very little difference - particularly as that stop is getting into the noise floor.
I also think it's worth keeping in mind that photographers like Ansel Adams used B&W film with around 10 stops of latitude in the highlights and very little in the shadows - which the Z6 III far exceeds...
So how it that any different then the typical Nikon user.
This happens with others cameras brands too like panasonic for example. Panasonic was lacking of autofocus, when that all the other features were impressive, now panasonic has phase detect autofocus that being for the first time in panasonic cameras works really impressive I'd say better than canon cause I've seen some videos comparing each other, but some youtubers still find flaws there and there and in that and etc because that's what they do. I personally think that camera rewiew has to change or this goes always wrong.
Well explained and presented. Thank you for sharing these very relevant points. I must agree we humans tends to focus on the specsheet and forgets about telling a story in our photos. I will remember this advice ❤.
Great Matt, I like your real world approach and the photos and videos you show, rather than endless charts and tests.
I know my comment is a week late Matt but I have to add my two pennyworth...
This Video is BRILLIANT.
The one thing I love about your videos Matt is you tell it like it is. DON'T EVER CHANGE !!!
To all the Comparison Chart only critics, all the Nikon Knockers, and 99% of the Moan and Groan brigade...
Why not go out and Buy a Z6 III or, if you can't afford it, and I suspect there are many,
Hire one for a week! And Use the thing !
(I had to edit those last 4 words above).
Photography is about what the finished image looks like, regardless of camera or lens you use.
Maybe think of it this way...
William Shakespeare was one of the best writers who ever lived on this Earth.
Did anyone ever ask Shakespeare what sort of Pen he used ? I think not.
Im with you 100%. When the only story you can tell, is about how a camera isn't as good as another for some particular metric. You need to go outside your door and actually use it to tell a worthwhile story.
I agree 350% with your statement! I‘m just waiting for a price drop and the Z6 III will succeed my Z6 II.
The negative people will always find something to complain about instead of looking at all the benefits. It's how they roll . Keep keeping it real Matt. Cheers👍
The DR hit job is just another opportunity to create negative content. It creates engagement and gives non photographers a way to satiate their egos since they can't compete in a discussion of output. The Nikon D4, D5, D6 all have lower dynamic range than the Z6 III. The Canon flagship 1D X line all have lower dynamic range, until you get to the 1D X MK III which has baked in noise reduction, similar to many of their mirrorless line of cameras. If you're baking in noise reduction to increase your DR, then we're no longer comparing apples to apples. The point, the difference is so minute that it's a non factor when it comes to the final product.
I read a comment below that said much of this is born from the desire to have a perfect camera. There's some truth to that since every spec and every feature will be scrutinized and if it's not leading the industry, then it can't be the perfect camera. The problem with this is that there are always tradeoffs which is why there are so many options to choose from. Ironically, when perfection is near, the argument then switches to one of size and weight.
At the end of the day (hate this phrase) nobody really wants a perfect camera as so much of the fun is in the chase, the experimentation and the collecting. ✌
Agree! How did anyone even take photos with those lower DR Camera in the past?(LOL)
@@williambuford6136 It just didn't happen. We're in the matrix and have been fooled into thinking there was life before mirrorless cameras.
lol
Thanks for being so reasonable. Image quality involves color science and tweaking of sensors too. I love the old Nikon Df sensor (same as D4 if I remember correctly) for that reason. Same as audio: lower distortion is not the goal, audio quality is what you hear. So, the question to me is what the files look like and are they more pleasing to the eye.
Exactly, if you can't get a good exposure with this camera, you suck. Back in the film days, color slide film only had 5 stops of dynamic range and people are now complaining about having 10.46 stops instead of 11.26.
Agreed!
My research suggests that Kodachrome 64, Agfachrome 64 and Ilford FP4 (my favorite) all had about 8 stops of dynamic range. I worked hard to extend my B&W dynamic range with careful developing and printing.
@@bmwohl It depends on the film. Velvia is 4 or 5 stops. Kodachrome is better for sure.
That was the real "know how" test back in the day: slides. Half stop error and the shot would never look the same
Thank you, Matt. I follow many photographers, and I'm amazed at how good your videos have gotten - you mastered your unique style. You beat any chart with your scene selection. The street light and even a car's highlight behind you was the real test, and the result was amazing! Very clever!
The Z6III is very interesting and it's great to see Nikon continue to bring out very strong camera and lenses but
I probably will not get one because I like the 45 MP size sensor whether I need it or not and I love my Z8.
Always appreciate your perspective Matt.
Yes first it was frame rates, then autofocus, now dynamic range
I remember doing clip test on E6 film because it only had 4 or 5 stops of dynamic range. Also did clip tests on b&w (which had a lot more DR like Pan-X) when I pushed it. Remember Ansel Adams Zone System. You can't fool light, true to this day even though sensors have improved a great deal in the past 24 years.
I'm an enthusiast (unpaid, non-professional) photographer that shoots a little bit of everything: studio macro, astro, moonlit landscapes, portraits, wildlife, spherical panoramas, etc. I sometimes do some pretty wild stuff in post like pushing exposure by 6 EV, significant cropping, etc. The most challenging task for my setup is wildlife photography, especially small birds at long distances in poor light. I have a Z9 (flagship FF) and a D7200 (enthusiast class APS-C), and using the same 600mm lens the Z9 is technically *worse* than the D7200 when shooting small birds that are 70m+ away. The dynamic range is similar but the per-pixel noise is worse on the Z9. Both images are heavily cropped, eg. to ~20MP (from 24MP) on the D7200 and ~16MP (from 46MP) on the Z9 to get the same framing. With that said I would never use the D7200 for this task. Although the images are theoretically worse on the Z9 that doesn't take into account all of the other improvements like IBIS, shot speed, FOCUS, etc.
The Z6iii is similar. There *are* tradeoffs with the Z6iii but for 99% of people those tradeoffs are worthwhile. 1/2 stop of DR and higher noise could be a deal breaker for some but the improvements in AF (and a lot of other things) more than make up for it. The noise issue is also partly mitigated by the noise being less patterned.
i have z6iii and i loved it
I did some tests today, and it’s not even worth rushing out the video on my channel lol under reasonable conditions it’s seriously a nothing sandwich. No one makes a 7 stops screw up.
Love it. Thanks Zwade. 😀👍
This camera is going to be legendary and will be talking about it. 20 years down the road.
Hello Matt, thank you for your helpful video.
I share your views, but I also like to deal with criticism.
Regarding opinions on the tests:
I find it disadvantageous to pit real-world photography and laboratory tests against each other. Both methods have their pros and cons depending on the subject matter, and they can be useful based on personal priorities.
Fortunately, everyone is free to disregard one of the two methods, perhaps to ignore certain facts or because it is genuinely irrelevant to their personal priorities. However, even in the latter case, I see no reason to downplay an existing problem.
Regarding the -5 stops:
Of course, in practice, one doesn't intentionally shoot at -5EV. But this is ultimately just to illustrate how the 100% view is used to compare, for example, chromatic aberrations. I wouldn't gain real insights about a car's quality from a crash test at only 10 mph either.
In daylight with high dynamic range, where BKT isn't possible, I often exceed +2EV when locally brightening dark areas. Sure, maybe this only happens in 5 out of 100 shots, but if the photographer is then unhappy with the result, it doesn't help him that the autofocus and many other features of the Z6iii are three times better.
Regarding Tony:
Yes, one has to be careful that a test isn't deliberately focused only on the one weakness of the newer product. (It's no secret that, for example, in lens flare comparisons, one might specifically choose the one unfavorable angle of the new lens to make it look bad. Hence, counter-tests are necessary that consider all angles). Currently, however, I find more videos that support Tony's observations.
The noise comparisons I've seen are about -0.66 EV worse than the Z6ii.
Since I already own nine Z lenses and would like to stay with Nikon for other reasons, I still have some hope that the issue can be mitigated with a firmware update.
This is another Great Video !!!! You make a point that even non-photogs. should be able to understand !!!! The Z6III is a great all-around camera, and I LUV IT !!!! :) There are people who have nothing better to do but to be Haters..... SAD.... But the internet allows, mean n hateful (maybe jealous) people to spew..... Thanks Matt :) :) :)
Great video, a practical opinion on a non problem.
So well said. Tell the story. Worry about that first. Thanks Matt!❤
I agree with this vid... some people just like moving the goal post when it comes to Nikon.
That was a great movie like video - especially the ending!
Thanks Matt. Excellent. I have my own take on this FUD from the usual suspects that I'm saving for my one month assessment. Flak jackets recommended. 😀
Love it. Can’t wait.
I always like your story telling. Great story telling in any gears.
Gratitude for speaking on this trend in the discussion. Better to discuss a tangible camera and lens in hand than speak on rumored flagship models that will now not be available, IN HAND, for two Summer Olympiads?! From an engineer that is enjoying the lessons I am learning using a z 30 on my Sirui 24mm f/2.8 1.33 [using the manual mode that Hudson Henry mentioned for the zF?] and the NIKKOR 40mm f/2.
Perfectly dynamic as my D4. ❤
Amazing how all these new photographers are professionals now on what makes a great image. Award winning photos have been taken with much, much less. Choose a camera and system that is comfortable for you and work on taking great photos. Literally stop complaining about the gear because it’s the best it’s ever been!
Great perspective. For someone who already owns a Z8 for sports and Landscapes and a Z6ii for portability and low light fun pictures and who never does video, I'm waiting until my Z6ii dies before I fork over more money on a Z6iii. You've helped me see that telling a story is more important than technical aspects. If I think 8 stop IBIS in low light will help tell a story, I will consider the Z6iii or maybe the future Z6iv. I'm going to FOCUS (pun intended) on getting lenses to help me tell that story. I've never owned a 1.2 lens. The 135 f/1.8 also interests me. In the old days, we all put our money in great glass and solid bodies, like the Nikon F2, we were depending on Kodak, Agfa and Fuji to help us with resolution. I realize now that the film has been replaced by sensor selection in the Body that fits us. Your "Story Telling" comment hits home. Thanks!!!
Thanks for calling this "controversy" out for what is. A whole bunch of nothing. The Z6iii is a prosumer/advanced amateur level camera with lot of pro level abilities.for it's cost it is outstanding. No one in its target audience is going to look at an image and think 'this would be a great photo if it had just a little more dynamic range'. Like you said Matt, it's all about the story. Story telling, capturing emotion, is a photographer skill, not a camera attribute. So all this noise about slightly less dynamic range is meaningless.
The difference I see in the DR on the charts is not significant anyway, so I don’t know what the fuss is about. The measurebators such as horsey shacky and others just have a bit too much time on their hands. Bottom line is, are you shooting for charts or are you shooting for art anyway? I’m interested in the art of photography. I DO like to know the specs of the camera before I buy it, but the specs don’t always equate to the best photos. You need ‘enough’ specs to get great files to work with, but the sensors in the latest cameras are all enough to create magical images, if you can capture it. Or you can shoot birds at the bird feeder all day and post that on dpreview, if that’s your thing. Anyway, the DR in the Z6 III is not much different than the II and it’s definitely enough to get fantastic images.
Next we can cry about ‘decentered’ lenses. 😀
lol.
Again Awesome Research & Development Matt!! Preach/Teach Deep Truth Bro!!
Great talk Matt. right on the spot.
J'ai le mien depuis 2 semaines et j'ai fait des photos de concerts dans des conditions difficiles. Je n'ai jamais eu de problème de plage dynamique de bruit ou autre. Je trouve au contraire que par rapport au Z6II il offre plus de potentiel et globalement de meilleurs résultats.
Il faudrait que les détracteurs apprennent avant tout à faire des photos plutôt que de dénigrer inutilement un matériel qui dans de bonnes conditions d'utilisation donne d'excellents résultats.
Matt, I agree with all you stated. I’ve used my Z6iii from the release date and feel that it works perfectly for my needs. I mainly shoot musicians invariably in low light and i am nearly always using high iso, the camera has not let me down with this scenario. occasionally i shoot wildlife in daylight and this has been a dream to use with the 180-600mm nikkor z lens. Paired with the nikon 35mm 1.8 is also joy to use. all in all i’m very pleased with this camera and it is a good companion to the Z8. Thank for your video… I’ll keep an eye out for your future vids…
Well said Matt. Another great video
A nice chat with a cinematic ending, bravo Matt! None of the DR wingers would be out in that rain... I love the end music, but when the first note came in, my first thought was, that sounds big, is he going to move away from the road, LOL.
I’m not even that mad about Northrup judging the Z6 III so harshly. I mean, I don’t agree, but if that’s how he judges cameras, ok, fine. However the R6 II applies noise reduction at its lowest ISO settings, artificially increasing the DR score. And the RP has far worse dynamic range than the Z6 III anyway. But I don’t remember him making a similar video about those cameras.
Having said that, you made a video about the Z6 III being a stop better than the Z6 II for high ISO performance. That has turned out to be false as well. But in that case, the 1 stop difference in noise performance did seem to matter to you. Yet a 1/2-3/4 stop difference in DR does not.
One thing this whole discussion has done for me btw, is make clear how DR is different and connected to high ISO performance. It has been quite insightful.
So exactly what Proof do you have concerning what Canon does with their noise reduction on the R6ii.
@@natureredux1957You again? What rabbit hole have you come out this time?
Oh for everyone else: he asked the same when I raised this point in a comment to Tony's video. I found the measurements on the website that Tony actually uses in his video, and I told him that. But apparently that's not enough. He dismissed it as "some website", when Tony's whole video was triggered by data from that website. So... yeah. Draw your own conclusions I'd say.
I saw the rain in your low light video before you even mentioned that it was raining. That is all I need to see :)
Perfect!
Nice to meet you the other day, Matt, at Ted's!
You too!
As an original z6 user this is a trade I’d definitely make if I was going to upgrade to the z6iii, it’s a complete no brainer. For me the improved auto focus alone is something I will notice every time vs a slight difference in dynamic range when exposure is off.
I’ve tried the camera and it’s brilliant! My price point is more in 2k-2.2k range. Wish Nikon had a cheaper model for much newer, yet serious and committed people
Matt, I totally agree with you. These complainers remind me of the DPR wingers: "My camera weighs weighs 322grams, the new version is 328grams! It's too heavy!"
Take this lot back to film, ... all manual. They would probanly take up knitting! (Light weight needles of course)
Back to a bit of serious, .... I have never seen complainers post their work? Seems to me just another branch of the gossip club.
They are found in every activity without exception.
I wouldn't waste my time Matt. Clearly they are Not photographers! Pictcha takers at best where RAW is only discussed in terms of the nude beach?
Loved the video! Thank You!
Glad you enjoyed it Eric :)
Ex TH-camr Daniel Milnor once spoke three words and often repeated them,which I try to live by every time I pick up one of my cameras.
“Light, timing and composition” all that matters.
Thanks Matt, 👍👏 brilliant video, I hooked up on a Z6 III page on Facebook, and all I see is charts & comments ripping apart a camera’s ability. I am from the film days too (similar age I reckon (56) ), I’d like to see these people’s reactions to pushing an Ilford Delta 3200 to 6400…🙀
Must have taken some restraint to be that polite for YT…🤣👍
Tony N did all the TH-camrs a favor by creating a bunch of controversy over Dynamic Range. But it’s all a huge nothingburger of a story.
…and then TN turns around and says this is one of his favourite cameras of all time.
it is if your 7-year-old Z6 has better dynamic range than the Z6iii!!
@@gosman949 Not really... Especially at 800+ they're identical. The question I ask is, how badly did you have to miss the exposure on your initial shot to notice that DR difference? (6.3 stops according to TN) If you're recovering shadows to the point where you notice a difference, is the shot even usable? IMO the answer is no... for either camera.
The fact of the matter is Sensor DR peaked a while ago... and now speed is the appreciable gains lie. If it's a 2/3 stop DR penalty, you're not going to notice that 99.999% of the time, but you will immediately notice the faster sensor / better AF.
you mean Sony Northrup
@@SteveGong 😂😂
nice flare control
Art of photography can be done with many types of equipment. I think what Nikon Z cameras can do is inspiring. I use Nikon Z 5 and want a new Nikon Z cameras but until I can get one, I'm using the best tool available. Z 6 III would be better in every way I think as you pointed out In real usage. I don't understand math so well and charts are not so inspiring to read. :)
Outstanding. The technonerds drank the Kool-Aid. Any photographer that worked in the film era knows that digital has eliminated sooo many constraints. In my photography, design of a grayscale image tells a story.
So l in the Canon system but before the dynamic range issues came up l was considering getting a Z6iii with a 180/600mm & after the dynamic range issues came up l am still considering getting a Z6iii & 180/600mm.😃
Hi Matt, Edward here. Nice to meet you on the Melbourne Z6III hands on session last Friday. Pity that I do not have the time to stay till the end. Since it is on the topic on dynamic range. How is this compared to Z6? I moved to Z6 last year from D610. I found that the dynamic range has slight improvement but not by a lot. But the focusing capability in darker environment is far better than D610. So I assume that the -10EV is talking about focus capability and not the dynamic range.
My personal take on the Z6 series (and the Zf) is this: if you need maximum DR, get the Z6 II or Zf (same sensor, but the Zf has faster AF). If you need the best AF for $2500, you'll probably have to sacrifice a bit and get a Z6 III. If you can live with the form factor and lack of extended video recording, the Zf is a good compromise between AF performance and image quality (and one reason I decided to just keep my Zf and not bother with a Z6 III myself--it's a well rounded camera from an IQ and AF performance standpoint, although the design is perhaps not to everyone's taste being a retro design). But if you look past that or can get over it, then it can be a good bargain that falls pretty much between a Z6 II and Z6 III in terms of performance and cost. Yes the Z6 III may have some more noise at higher ISOs and may have lower DR, but you're trading that off for a massive improvement in AF over the Z6 II, so you have to weigh those out. There is no real "right or wrong" answer here -- it's what do you need (what priorities do you have for features), and what are you willing to compromise on?
Great video explaining in terms that are understandable.
Thanks Matt. It is amazing how the TH-camrs are ripping the R5 Mark II now. They go from carcass to carcass striving for relevancy. I appreciate your reality based comments.
I think the Z6III is a great camera and if I had the money I would definitely buy it. I prefer that "sweet spot" of 24MP, though I understand other people want different things from their cameras than I do.
Most people who buy cameras at this price level don’t even know what dynamic range is
Thanks for the common sense .
I would go even further Matt. After ISO 160, you are better off for both the Z6ii and Z6iii going to ISO 800 because of dual ISO. ISO 640 is the equivalent of c.ISO 2,700. So unless are shooting at ISO 160 or below, there is no difference in dynamic range.
Great point Andrew. I do the same with my z8 and z9. I jump to 500 or 640 after about ISO 100.
I am sorry Matt... I may not understand it all... What are the people criticising the DR of the Z6III sensor actually talking about?... The lack of ability to actually stretch their files by 5 stops instead of 4.5 stops when shooting below 800 ISO... Is this really what the debate is all about??... If I would care about such thing, and put in perspective what this sensor actually brings to the table vs the Z6II (for which there has been no DR debate if I rememeber well)... I would actually be happy to "pay that price" of 1/2 stop of DR... Absolutely ridiculous... World is MAD!!
Great one once again Matt!! I hope you dried...😂
Just would like to point out that the scan speed is a separate function from AF. The two aren't related. Case in point, the slower scanning Zf has equal (or better?) AF than the Z9 and perhaps the Z6III, even though they use single or dual Expeed 7 processors.
Hi Eric. Thanks for commenting. AF is directly related to sensor speed. I’m not sure what you are citing in regard to Zf having better Af than Z9. There is no camera with dual Expeed 7.
Thanks for the reply,@@MattIrwinPhotography It's been a long day, and I meant dual Expeed 6 and botched half my post about the Z6 and Z6II for some reason. I intended to tie it in that the Z6 has a single Expeed 6 processor, and the Z6II has dual.
Respectfully, AF is not directly related to sensor speed on Z bodies as they are two different functions for the processor. When comparing the various scan speeds and AF performance in the Z bodies, there isn't a correlation that shows that faster scan speeds automatically result in improved AF. In fact, the Zf has a slightly slower scan speed than the Z6II but as we know, has superior AF. The Z6I and Z6II have the same sensor scan speed but different AF speeds. The Zf has slower sensor scan speed of the Z6I yet has phenomenal AF that is on par with the blisteringly fast scan speed of the Z9. The Z9 has four times the sensor scan speed of the Z6III (and nearly twice the megapixels) but the AF is the same. This is why I disagree that AF is directly related to sensor speed.
People like myself who use the Zf and Z9 back to back on a professional level, including our Canadian Nikon reps, report that the Zf is stickier in daylight than the Z9, less erratic, and because of -10ev, is superior in low light compared to the Z9. If you use the 'Search This Group' function in the various Nikon Facebook groups, you'll find this has been mentioned numerous times. Cheers and thanks for the great videos!
@ericmilner4367 Hi Eric I have too spoken to Nikon about AF and sensor speed. It would seem our information differs. As for what specifically the ZF is doing I can’t comment on.
Thanks Matt. IF I had the cash, I would buy the Z6iii tomorrow. I love shooting in low light and often use ISOs around 2000 -4000 on my Z6. Since the DR reduction is at ISOs lower than this, its not an issue for me. Yes it would be good to have slightly better DR at base ISO but how much would that have added to the price? I get the idea that some people want $10k+ specs for not much money.
As Mr Irwin always stresses, it's all about use case.
And we thpught the camera wars were over. SIGH
I guess it is about expectations. Everyone expected the camera to be a lowlight beast, especially since it has yet another iteration of 24MP.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't say, that we should expect this.
And of course you are right: photography is not about half a stop of dr, but still: wouldn't we love it, if it was the other way rounf?
Hi Matt agree with you 110%, I commented on this Dynamic Range Fiasco on my live stream last night and talked about dynamic range quite a bit and how you make adjustments within your camera to compensate if needed since their are cameras that have much lower dynamic range that produce great results. My guests who have decades of experience (several professional photographers) also commented and provided insightful commentary. If all one has to do is be a techie nerd (which I can be to a certain extent) and then weaponize results that are basically inconsequential in the real world, you are doing a dis-service to the photographic community. Go out and shoot and enjoy your tools and improve your craft, if you just watch all the videos on this subject you are not becoming a better photographer, you are hurting the industry implying camera XYZ is not good enough which is unfortunate because some believe your BS and miss out on buying a camera that many say is Best in Class. Look at those that are displaying photo's from the camera which speak much louder that anything else. Take care Matt and thanks. - Jeff
I believe that this camera is Nikon's A7III moment.
Hi Matt, sorry missed your visit in Brisbane on 10 Jul. really wanted to attend but i was at work. wish you meet you next time.
I still shoot film, for fun, regularly. Every time I do, I am reminder how amazing every single modern camera is today. This DR “issue” in the Z6III is nothing of concern in your actual use of the machine. I am not buying one, at least for now, because I love my Zf/Zfc/Z7II combo for my amateur work. I still regularly create lovely images with a D200, D300, D700….being there, nice light, composition and story telling are, by far, the more important factors on creating good photographic art!
Boom Tish - well said...
A couple of things. First, dynamic range has little to do with image quality, much more to do with what used to be called exposure latitude. Second, the 'gain' explanation of variable ISO is basically wrong. If you remember how with a negative process the tonality could be adjusted in printing, then variable ISO in digital cameras is like that. The tonality gets adjusted in processing. The usual rule for exposure is to use the largest exposure that meets your DOF and motion blur requirements in the available light.
First of all Yeah... I agree with you. Storytelling is key. Without that you've got nothing. That's the difference between a beautiful (but insignificant) shot and a great one. Secondly, I've watched a test and the Z63 was actually performing better than the predecessor (I'm talking about the sensor obviously). Thirdly, if anyone has watched Sony&honey's test well you should know that: he took a photo of a photo but the original shot was done on a Canon camera (notoriously bad for dynamic range) and it's probably over a 10 year old shot! And then he complains that the Z63 isn't doing 'that well'? Was he kidding us or what? I'm sure that no one is going off by 4 or 5 stops (as if he/she does, change job mate!). Well put Matt. - ha... and yes, take advantage of the Z8 sale although the Z63 has indeed A LOT going for herself!
I seems to me, that i have seen every Story 10 times before. What changes is the technical quality. So the challenge is to find/create a new story and nobody will care about technical perfection. If you an existing product against an imaginary perfect one, it will loose all time. Compare it against to what you have or need and then you can decide if its a winner or not.
I can see that you are abit agitated by whoever that may have commented on your previous video about the Nikon Z 6iii.
Just ignore them as they might be just worshippers than a user. Every camera make are manufactured for a reason and purpose, be it Nikon or Canon or Sony or Leica or Fujifilm.
It really depends on individual needs and budget. Otherwise, those camera bands manufacturers can just make 1 model each to fit all users.
I’m also contemplating between the Z 6iii or Z 8. So thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions.
I am trying to figure out if I should sell my Z7 for a Z6III. I'm so addicted to post-exposure cropping.
Get better and bigger glass
Now I'm waiting for the final price... And see the beavior of Z6III and probably change my DSLR 😊
Use the gear you want, it’s your choice. But it is a fact that the Z6iii, Z8 and Z9 have less DR at low ISO than the Z7ii and the D850. I shoot landscape mainly and I prioritise DR, for that reason I feel that the Z6iii is not for me. That’s the beauty of living in a first world country with plenty of choice and in a democracy with free choice and free markets. Stay safe and happy 👍
I will always advocate for what best suits your use-case.
I will go with z8 over z6iii for photography.
I think we will see a price drop (or extended sale) of the Z6III within the first 12-18 months. The Z8 has now been on sale for several weeks in the US for $3499. I’m not in any rush so will wait, and see if Nikon releases anything else in that period I may even prefer - Z5II or Z50II (Z80?)..
I have a z6 II and a z8. I'm covered using either camera. But I am considering seeking my z6 II next year and getting the z6 III. The z6 II is lighter and has smaller files. I mostly use it for milky way and street photography. It was my all rounder until I got the z8. The ISO performance was what I was more concerned with because of high ISO for astro photos. I shoot at ISO 6400 a lot. But it sounds like it preforms the same as the z6 II at that range. I have the z8 for landscape, birds and action. I like my z6 II but I'm not fond of the small grip. And I would like a camera with a fully articulating screen. I have a Canon T6s that has one. I have a question for you about shooting film. I just bought a Canon AE-1 back in April. Explain what you mean about shooting at a higher ISO. I know you can pull or push film on the exposure in the dark room. I just don't understand what you mean by shooting at a higher ISO. Do you mean adjusting the ISO dial to what you need regardless of the film speed? I know seeing the ISO has something to do with the light meter and how it calculates with the aperture and shutter speed. And wouldn't you have to shoot the whole roll of film the same way before telling them to push it 1 or 2 stops? I grew up with point and shoot 110 and 35mm cameras. I never had to worry about the settings with those cameras.
Matt, how does the dynamic range of the viewing medium such as computer screen, tv screen, photographic print paper, photographic inkjet or laser printer impact the effect the camera's dynamic range has on the viewer's experience? I really liked this video, but I think we've given up our love of dynamic range by moving to digital media. The same is true for music, I believe. We've given up our audio reproductive range for the convenience of listening to digital files rather than analog reproduction and rather than live music. Years ago I purchased some Zone 6 prints to have an easy way to appreciate excellent B&W print dynamic range. How can I do that today in the color digital world?
Great Video Matt
I hope the Z7iii, when/if it comes, will be a photo centric camera with no stacking sensor. So basically the Z7ii with better autofocus and the same good video quality like Z8. I know there will be rolling shutter but the z7 must differentiate from the z8.