@@acortes7771 Evangelical and Sometimes Charismatic does not infer you are only one or the other. Just like you may say that the car is "brand new and sometimes warm." Or like a building is "beautiful and sometimes casts a shadow"
I love the picture of Wynn Kenyon in his classic “Now, class,” pose. I had the pleasure of studying under him in my undergraduate, and he was loved by all (though most of us didn’t know his role in church politics). He will be missed. Funnily enough, I introduced two good friends of mine to each other at his funeral, and they later were married. I’m not one for symbolism, but I do enjoy the thought that even in his death, he found significance in others’ lives.
When I became Presbyterian I ended up in the EPC as there is no PCA nearby. I went to a General Assembly and thought it was well done. Eventually however their softness on female ruling elders, "social justice", and the authority of the state caused me to become CREC.
@@thomasthellamas9886 Hardly. Back to Paul perhaps. Rome is not at all fond of Rome. Given the spectator sport that modern "evangelical" church services have become it seems it is they that have returned to Rome.
@@bravefaithministries630 Well, I did it Matt, I am on tiktok now. Dumped 4 videos to start. Here's my channel: www.tiktok.com/@readytoharvest Looks like TikTok can use some more Christian creators. Thanks for what you're doing.
I'm Presbyterian (USA) but experimented with some more conservative branches: the PCA and the OPC. I also currently attend a PCUSA church which the denomination attempted to close down due to numbers. We survived because of how the building is owned. And now they want us to stay open. If they ever got our building, good luck: very rural, very far from a paved road, and no running water. But now they are trying to encourage rural congregations like this one. The EPC is interesting because it allows a lot more diversity in views on some viewpoints than other versions of Presbyterianism. I'll stick with my own version, but I think this shows that no denomination has it right. We view the sacred through an imperfect human lens.
with the new Olympia Overture, my church is seriously considering leaving the PCUSA as well. we are a very small congregation but have been around for nearly 100 years. those of us left, aren't entirely sure HOW to leave the PCUSA or how to even start the process. I guess we need to crack open our Books of Order and get to work!
Joshua, you do a fantastic job at explaining various groups. I am having breakfast today with an EPC member and reviewing this video will help me to understand him if his doctrinal positions are discussed. From what I understand, his congregation is woke but he doesn't hold this position himself. He believes he can turn them around. Our breakfast discussion will mostly center around political activities within the community, though.
It amazes me how aggressively liberal "the progressive element" in various institutions were/are. And even how early that agressive intolerance was present. This happened in the 1970s! I used to believe the slide began with a live and let live attitude. Clearly not.
Several of the founding EPC congregations in metro Detroit had a UPCNA background. Flagship Ward EPC was the daughter of a non-instrumental Associate Kirk congregation (Scots/Scotch P.C.) that became Central PC PCUSA and not UPCNA as might have been expected ("John Monteith and Detroit Presbyterianism" by Dr. Fredsell).
So ruled by elders as per scripture but they can be women contradicting scripture. Women can be ministers of the congregation say so, utterly unscriptural approach. Either God says yes or God says no. They can't both be right, it's obvious from scripture that they can't be so yet more compromise. They aren't Reformed they are Conformed to the world.
Calvin on 1 Corinthians 14: "In the meantime, it is the part of the prudent reader to consider, that the things of which he here treats are intermediate and indifferent, in which there is nothing unlawful, but what is at variance with propriety and edification… But it may be asked here, how it is that Paul declares those things to be commandments of the Lord, as to which no statement is to be found in the Scriptures? Besides this, there is also another difficulty that presents itself -- that if they are the commandments of the Lord, they are necessary to be observed, and they bind the conscience, and yet they are rites connected with polity, as to the observance of which no such necessity exists. Paul, however, merely says, that he enjoins nothing, but what is in accordance with the will of God. Now God endowed him with wisdom, that he might recommend this order in external things at Corinth, and in other places -- not that it might be an inviolable law, like those that relate to the spiritual worship of God, but that it might be a useful directory to all the sons of God, and not by any means to be despised."
Dr. Bartlet Hess, senior pastor of Ward EPC and founder/leader of the EPC, supposedly had a mother who was a pastor in another denomination and found nothing wrong with women pastors. While I was in metro Detroit (initially attending Ward BTW) the EPC got to women could be ruling elders but not teaching elders. Move up in time to when Colonial PC of KC joined the EPC (i was living in the area at the time, initially attending Colonial), they could not join the local presbytery 'cause 1 of their pastors was a woman and women pastors were not allowed in that prebytery, so they were put in another presbytery out-of-territory. (And there was 1 other presbytery that also did not allow women pastors,) But today Colonial still has a woman pastor and is a member of the local presbytery, so things have changed. ☹
Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church (PCA) let a female elected official make a political speech during the Sunday morning service before the midterm elections.
As a pastor in the EPC, I found this to be a good, concise summary of who we are.
My girlfriend is EPC and I am PCUSA (don't worry, I'm one of the few in the PCUSA who believes orthodox Christianity) this is a very good description.
I have learned so much from you. Your delivery is concise and without bias. Keep up your excellent work
Thanks Allyn!
@@acortes7771 Evangelical and Sometimes Charismatic does not infer you are only one or the other. Just like you may say that the car is "brand new and sometimes warm." Or like a building is "beautiful and sometimes casts a shadow"
@@acortes7771 That sounds like Evangelical and sometimes Charismatic to me!
@@acortes7771 Whoever resorts to name calling first loses the argument, I didn't make the rules! :-)
I love the picture of Wynn Kenyon in his classic “Now, class,” pose.
I had the pleasure of studying under him in my undergraduate, and he was loved by all (though most of us didn’t know his role in church politics).
He will be missed.
Funnily enough, I introduced two good friends of mine to each other at his funeral, and they later were married. I’m not one for symbolism, but I do enjoy the thought that even in his death, he found significance in others’ lives.
Great story!
Is this setting up for a video comparing the PCA and EPC?
If not that would still be an cool video to do.
When I became Presbyterian I ended up in the EPC as there is no PCA nearby. I went to a General Assembly and thought it was well done. Eventually however their softness on female ruling elders, "social justice", and the authority of the state caused me to become CREC.
Half way back to Rome
@@thomasthellamas9886 Hardly. Back to Paul perhaps. Rome is not at all fond of Rome. Given the spectator sport that modern "evangelical" church services have become it seems it is they that have returned to Rome.
@@thomasthellamas9886a Baptist I presume. Always scared of the big bad Pope.
@@thomasthellamas9886 always scared of the big bad pope
Man I’m seriously binging all your videos lol thank you for being so non biased
So glad to hear you like them!
Also, if I decide to do a TikTok, looks like I should go to you for some tips!
@@ReadyToHarvest I'd love to help out bro! Anytime you decide to hop on let me know and I'll repost some of your stuff :)
@@bravefaithministries630 Well, I did it Matt, I am on tiktok now. Dumped 4 videos to start. Here's my channel: www.tiktok.com/@readytoharvest
Looks like TikTok can use some more Christian creators. Thanks for what you're doing.
I'm Presbyterian (USA) but experimented with some more conservative branches: the PCA and the OPC. I also currently attend a PCUSA church which the denomination attempted to close down due to numbers. We survived because of how the building is owned. And now they want us to stay open. If they ever got our building, good luck: very rural, very far from a paved road, and no running water. But now they are trying to encourage rural congregations like this one.
The EPC is interesting because it allows a lot more diversity in views on some viewpoints than other versions of Presbyterianism. I'll stick with my own version, but I think this shows that no denomination has it right. We view the sacred through an imperfect human lens.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for uploading this. Been waiting for this one for a long time.
My church left PCUSA for EPC in 2009. Love the EPC!
I to am EPC
with the new Olympia Overture, my church is seriously considering leaving the PCUSA as well. we are a very small congregation but have been around for nearly 100 years. those of us left, aren't entirely sure HOW to leave the PCUSA or how to even start the process. I guess we need to crack open our Books of Order and get to work!
I am a member of the EPC! Great review! I also took part in the position paper on Human Sexuality
Thank you for answering one of my requests
I'm not a Presbyterian myself, but I like the sound of the EPC :)
6:29 “The elements remain blood and wine…”
Had to do a double take with that one.
oops
@@ReadyToHarvest To paraphrase, all have erred and fall short of the glory of God :)
Joshua, you do a fantastic job at explaining various groups. I am having breakfast today with an EPC member and reviewing this video will help me to understand him if his doctrinal positions are discussed. From what I understand, his congregation is woke but he doesn't hold this position himself. He believes he can turn them around. Our breakfast discussion will mostly center around political activities within the community, though.
What a weird system. A pastor who doesn't believe the Christian faith got ordained, but one who didn't believe women should be clergy was not
It amazes me how aggressively liberal "the progressive element" in various institutions were/are. And even how early that agressive intolerance was present. This happened in the 1970s! I used to believe the slide began with a live and let live attitude. Clearly not.
Thank you- very informative!
Great to learn the history!
Several of the founding EPC congregations in metro Detroit had a UPCNA background. Flagship Ward EPC was the daughter of a non-instrumental Associate Kirk congregation (Scots/Scotch P.C.) that became Central PC PCUSA and not UPCNA as might have been expected ("John Monteith and Detroit Presbyterianism" by Dr. Fredsell).
Thanx, Joshua 🌹🌲🌹
Great video
Have you done the Bible presbyterian church? I attended one as a child briefly
... How different is the EPC from the PCA ?
More liberal but not liberal if that makes any sense.
PCA is far more conservative and traditionally Presbyterian. EPC has a bit of a modern Baptist bent.
@@amecamusic9399 exactly. 100% it feels a bit baptist but sound theology.
Unrelated but I wanted to warn you that your Salvation Army video has its description and timestamps doubled!
Thanks! Fixed it.
Thank you. This sounds so fundamentalist.
Wait till you hear about the Bible Presbyterians
Hardly. Its a moderate denomination
You ever been to a PCA?
Anathema. Anathema. Anathema.
Sure. Why don't you tell us about what you believe? I'll be here waiting
"That goes against our constitution" Yeah but what about the Bible?
FIRST!
Reported
@@dwightschrute900
Think god
@@dwightschrute900 for what?
2005 called. They want their post back
Baptist? right? Certainly not Presbyterian.
Not at all. Did you even see the video?
These guys sound pretty based.
So ruled by elders as per scripture but they can be women contradicting scripture. Women can be ministers of the congregation say so, utterly unscriptural approach. Either God says yes or God says no. They can't both be right, it's obvious from scripture that they can't be so yet more compromise. They aren't Reformed they are Conformed to the world.
Calvin on 1 Corinthians 14: "In the meantime, it is the part of the prudent reader to consider, that the things of which he here treats are intermediate and indifferent, in which there is nothing unlawful, but what is at variance with propriety and edification… But it may be asked here, how it is that Paul declares those things to be commandments of the Lord, as to which no statement is to be found in the Scriptures? Besides this, there is also another difficulty that presents itself -- that if they are the commandments of the Lord, they are necessary to be observed, and they bind the conscience, and yet they are rites connected with polity, as to the observance of which no such necessity exists. Paul, however, merely says, that he enjoins nothing, but what is in accordance with the will of God. Now God endowed him with wisdom, that he might recommend this order in external things at Corinth, and in other places -- not that it might be an inviolable law, like those that relate to the spiritual worship of God, but that it might be a useful directory to all the sons of God, and not by any means to be despised."
Dr. Bartlet Hess, senior pastor of Ward EPC and founder/leader of the EPC, supposedly had a mother who was a pastor in another denomination and found nothing wrong with women pastors. While I was in metro Detroit (initially attending Ward BTW) the EPC got to women could be ruling elders but not teaching elders. Move up in time to when Colonial PC of KC joined the EPC (i was living in the area at the time, initially attending Colonial), they could not join the local presbytery 'cause 1 of their pastors was a woman and women pastors were not allowed in that prebytery, so they were put in another presbytery out-of-territory. (And there was 1 other presbytery that also did not allow women pastors,) But today Colonial still has a woman pastor and is a member of the local presbytery, so things have changed. ☹
Female pastors? Gay
Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church (PCA) let a female elected official make a political speech during the Sunday morning service before the midterm elections.
@@vanessaloy1049time to go BPC I guess
It’s a Cult religion and so sad to learn
I dont understand my presbyterian church has never brought up anything calvanistic,
What's sad is you think you can achieve a higher closeness to Jesus by standing on the backs of other Christians
@@GolfingWithNashis it Cumberland Presbyterian?