@@charlesballiet7074 didn't he have a different belief and removed this videos or something, I remember seeing reupload channels dedicated to these bio shock vids in particular
Bioshock is considered an exposé of an Ayn Rand "atlas shrugged" world, but its through the lense of an Aldous Huxley view. Similar to how a religous person would try to envision a non religious world.
Interesting take. Great description of objectivism and Rand, and your video quality and narration is excellent. In fact, I would argue that Rapture was doomed from well before Ryan started acting out of his principles of Objectivism (which led him to ultimately tell you to kill him because of how committed he was), particularly with Fontaine and how Rapture was set up. The creators have stated their goals for these worlds of Bioshock 1 and 2 (which explores collectivism as the other side of the coin) is to make you explore environments where if you took principles completely all the way to their fullest extent, what are some possible outcomes, both good and bad? I argue that many of the things that destroyed Rapture were direct results of Objectivist principles, well before Ryan became an all-out authoritarian. 1. Frank Fontaine was not an altruist, nor did he use altruism in any way, shape or form other than right at the end as a means to manipulate others in his own self-interest by starting businesses to undermine Ryan. The majority of his business work was in line with Rapture's goals, and he was allowed into the city legally as an entrepreneur. His fisheries revolutionized food production in Rapture, and he expanded into the unregulated scientific market. The principles he utilized in his scientific endeavors to sell plasmids were done in his own self-interest -- to provide the market with a service people wanted (the plasmids to make people become perfect). The market desired this, and since science was unregulated, they were allowed to do so. Frank Fontaine's smuggling was arguably more in-line with capitalist and objectivist principles than Andrew Ryan: he had the means to provide services the people wanted, and he did so. This video painted him as a "criminal and con man and thug," all of which he was ... but his principles were the same as Ryan's and Rand's: he was working legally within the market for his own self-interest. This is why Ryan said that the Great Chain must be pulled in all directions, but Fontaine was pulling it too hard that it snapped. Pure competition and allowing to the whims of the market, added with no regulations and only people who want to use the market to find the products people want with no ethical restrictions on science, created the plasmid industry. This was entirely the creation of Objectivism *before* Ryan stepped in and broke his Objectivist principles. You mentioned in your other video that Fontaine did not share Rand's morality of seeing individuals as traders and purchasers; however, I argue that this world shows that Rand's philosophy of unregulated free markets allows and in some cases incentivizes individuals like Fontaine with this amorality to act purely in their own self-interest to sell products to customers that will in some way hurt them. It's not simply about whether or not he shared the view of "rational, self-interested people," it's showing what kind of people would exploit a society run by purely Objectivist principles. Many people have good intentions behind systems, but the effects those systems have and behaviors they allow and incentivize are a part of discussing whether or not these systems are moral, regardless of original intentions. Without any regulations or restrictions, people like Fontaine are only subject to market competition and consumer boycotts as recourse, the latter of which seemed impossible once individuals became addicted. 2. There was no official "government" of Rapture. Ryan ran the city because he was the richest and created it. This vacuum of power allowed him to create his own security force, his own council, etc. But there was no official sanction on others creating their own security forces. Ryan did not set up anything because he believed it would be too much for people to exploit (like the ancap principles). However, because the city was large and there was no regulations on preventing anyone from gaining power through private means of their own, Ryan set up security cameras, constables, etc. *of his own accord and means.* This allowed him to have the vacuum of power you mentioned, which set up people like Lamb and Fontaine out of their own self-interest to want to obtain that power. I believe the game is speaking on the inevitability of power structures, and even when one tries to set up a community without one, leaders inevitably arise when there are clear classes of people (someone has to scrub the toilets and someone has to sit in board meetings). 3. The ADAM and plasmid industry were a direct result of Objectivist philosophies calling for the lack of government regulation on science to avoid unethical procedures. The blood spattered on the wall that said, "ADAM gives us no reason to no longer be perfect" says it all. These hand-picked scientists by Ryan (Tenenbaum, Suchong, etc.) often talked about wanting scientific research into what makes a man strong versus what makes a man weak. They wanted to create a type of people, or create a product that allowed men to skip the "weak" stage and manipulate the double helix themselves. This unregulated science allowed a businessman like Fontaine to capitalize on it, sell it to the market with the spin of telling people to buy it, and people in their own self-interest and free will bought these products (until they became addicted). They were interested in fixing their flaws, becoming perfect, so they bought it of their own accord. No government forced them to. Rapture goes much deeper than just a surface level "we tried to run an Objectivist society, but we abandoned those principles and it came to ruins." It explores the entire idea of self-interest in an unregulated market, and if you created a world and only allowed those in their self-interest to promote their own products and ideas, what would happen? People like Fontaine, Suchong, Tannenbaum would be a natural part of such a society. They are operating within their own self-interest and that alone. Fontaine's 'altruistic' orphanages were purely a means of manipulation of the poor class for his own monetary gain. It is true that Ryan restricted materials from the outside world and Fontaine's smuggling business was a direct result from that un-Objectivist move. However, Fontaine's business of smuggling was only a small part of his endeavors, and his fisheries and scientific and other means of speaking to the lower class were perfectly legal and in fact incentivized in this system. If you read the novel, characters are mostly functioning unregulated until the very end. By taking Objectivism out to its fullest extent, I argue that is quite in line with how strongly Rand states them. She clearly believed that Objectivism completely understands the theory of human nature and every man should follow it as their only principle to a free society. This game seeks to explore that kind of marketplace. What would be the full effects of that? What kind of people like Fontaine would seek to start businesses for their own interests, but not others? What kind of scientists and artists would be interested in that kind of world, and what would they find? What are the true ramifications of unrestricted scientific achievement? And what kinds of vacuums of power would be created and attempted to be controlled? Bioshock 2 flips this script and explores the other side: what are the true horrors of collectivist thought and how devastating that can be? Sofia Lamb's manipulation of the poor class for her own ideology is also explored in the book alongside these critiques of Objectivism. As I said at the beginning, the creators have said their goals for these games is to create environments where if you took principles completely all the way to their fullest extent, what are some possible outcomes? Which is why many philosophers don't stake their claim in just one theory, they read dozens and figure out what they believe to be the best course of action. Choosing only one can have potentially immense iatrogenic effects.
@@lovelifeanarchy fontaine feels like a nihilist, a man that watches the world burn but does the burning for his profitability and greed The world is able to support everyone's need but not everyone's greed
Bioshock is a critique of Rand's beliefs, but I find it pretty funny that it took magical sea slugs which grant you superpowers to corrupt the ideology
@@scandalouspanda7489 The designer agrees with him, my friend. Imagine being so close-minded that you have to come up with some ignorant conclusion that your favorite game's sole purpose is to criticize an ideology you don't like, but when it's anti-socialist you make up many excuses like "that wasn't REAL socialism!" Cope.
Learned a lot more from this than I thought, and have shown it to several others as a sort of example of how intricately you can intertwine meaningful philosophical observations with an engaging video game or movie to create a truly memorable experience. also excellent music choice :)
Thanks for a detailed breakdown on Objectivism. I found it very interesting. Most videos i find are usually x=evil y=good, and this felt like a cool guest lecture.
Pregunto: Como el hombre va a tener el derecho al sudor de su frente en el capitalismo? Cuando en la práctica los que gozan de las riquezas del trabajo es una pequeña parte que no ha trabajado nada. Quién es el parásito, el obrero o el empresario? No se han parado a pensar que el culto al Libre mercado y el Objetivismo como "La palabra de Dios" en la religión no es otra cosa con la que los manipulan para robarle su trabajo...
Tienes toda la razón. El creador de este video es un idiota. Hizo un video en detalle del juego, y no entendio que es una critica. Esa filosofía es tan erronea como el Communismo.
I m a brazilian communist. I want to start doing content in portuguese, similiar to this kind of thing, but for my country. Great video, i did not know some of the external references. Im surprised how theres few videos about this theme on the internet.
Beautifully told and it makes me want to play the Bioshock games just for the story and the magic of this utopian steampunk world. They have been on my shelf of shame for years.
Rapture is actually a pretty legit depiction of where Objectivism leads logically. Rand preached so vehemently against faith, but her entire social philosophy crumbles without placing faith in a utopian centralized government that's immune to internal corruption. Much like Socialism, Objectivism conveniently ignores the inevitability of human nature and only works if every participant is voluntarily involved, and there's a word for the only sociopolitical structure that allows for such a situation to exist in the first place; Anarchy.
Problem is Ayan Rand was a bit of an idiot and knew it, she purposfully misused words, their definitions, and the concepts they represent and attacked people for pointing this out, and made up her own definitions to fit with the concepts she rallied against but that's ironically not how you objectively analyze something, you can't change something to just fit your narrative if you're trying to be objective
Get rid of big business and government and someone else steps in as the powerful. It’s just human nature. A good example is Cuba. Before Castro, Cuba was lead by a military dictator who was corrupt AF, so the people rose up and overthrew him and brought in a man of the people. We all know hw that worked out. Rapture was no different. What was meant to be a society free of government and religion ended up falling into a dictatorship and revolution to overthrow said dictator
@@ac521 Cuba was a slave colony by the Spanish, then the US and capitalism brought Batista to set up a giant brothel island at the service of white people. Castro might be worth of criticism But he did what was necessary to remove the imperialists from Cuba
I would say he was a cultish figure who lead a cult of personality, not a de-jure leader but a de-facto one similar to anarchists figureheads or religious leaders.
Ryan being power corrupt, is honestly what I think to be the criticism of classical libertarianism itself. These people always wanted to point out small, limited, to no government -- yet they themselves wield power, like a government. We criticize communism, socialism, with it being never tried, that the weak link of the government being corrupt, yet we give capitalism and libertarianism a pass, when in practice, people and the corporations become the government themselves. "Betrayal" of the principle is exactly the point, as it is inevitable, and to point out "if we only remained consistent" it would have worked well, when the problem is that we can't remain consistent.
This was a very weird conclusion you had there. How can you not blame "objectivism" for the fall of rupture? In the objectivist view: it was "objectively" required to ban those trades that started the chain of events that eventually led to the downfall of Rupture. In a more sensible analytical thinking process: it was the laissez-faire that made it possible that people were moving contraband which in turn required objectivists to put an end to it. I know it does not make sense when I say "objectivism cancelled objectivism." It's the problem with objectivism, as it is really just an another idea like "god," you have to assume that it exists and it is ever-present. Yet, in our current day and age, it is becoming more and more clear that there is no objective truth, there is no objective experience. It is all in the end very subjective, this is how our brains work to begin with. I know you don't talk about this aspect of objectivism, you only pick the parts that are related to Bioshock's story directly. But in the Atlas Shrugged, one can see that the author talks about the objective in such a way that it is *almost objectively clear* that she is constituting God with objectivism.
@@lovelifeanarchy No, it is not an objective truth. That statement is a product of observation, as it is possible for you to believe that there is an objective "truth," yet it is not for me, therefore the statement does not hold the property "objective."
Holly molly! I think I found the worst take over the philosophy of Bioshock. What bioshock makes really clear is that every characters of the downfall of rapture are rational actors acting in their own self interest. The point of bioshock is that no matter the people the shining objectivist city on the hill will inevitably become rapture. Objectivism simply cannot endure reality. One of the most important part of commentary of bioshock are the little sister. Children have no place in objectivist society they have no moral value. So they become a commodity.
>What bioshock makes really clear is that every characters of the downfall of rapture are rational actors acting in their own self interest. Yes, that's 100% describes the splicers exactly.
>"Betraying" objectivism is the most objectivist thing Ryan does. He if betrays objectivism, then it can't be called objectivism - which is what I said in the conclusion.
@@lovelifeanarchy Okay let me rephrase my statement : The betrayal of objectivist principals (mainly the laissez-faire system) is the logical conclusion of an objectivist society. Someone wealth grows so their power grows so they can use their power to grow their wealth and so it continues up to the point where that person(moral or phisical) owns enough power to have a quasi monopoly on violence (phisical or other). And what do we call a monopoly on violence? A state. And according to objectivist principals they have the moral obligation to pursue their self interest. And Andrew Ryan is the embodiment of that big hole in objectivism.
@@mattcraftien974 Neither Ayn Rand/Objectivism calls for anarchy. There is a state in objectivist societies that calls on the authority to maintain basic rights. Andrew Ryan was that authority in Rapture since he created it. He only used his power against Fontaine once the slicers were out of control and a danger to Rapture. I said this in both my bioshock videos.
...you know on your video on fallout I left a comment critiquing your arguments in favor of Mr. House, an authoritarian capitalist who cloaks his values in neoliberal ideology...I just processed that the Yellow & Black in your logo imply anarchocapitalist...so my critiquing "your an anarchist how do you not see the issue with this?" is...rather off point.
I'll never understand why some people consider this game anti-capitalist. In any case, you can tell whatever story you like (and Bioshock tells it well), but that doesn't mean real life is going to play out that way.
With my understanding to objectivism and the books like Philosophy: who needs it and Anthem on my phone, bioshock is not Objectivism. At best it's a Libertarian/nietzschean setting. I don't see objectivism would embrace adam that makes you mad, or a complete rejection on government, as objectivism see good in government when done so correctly, such as protecting individual rights from force unless that individual cause force on another. Bioshock is at best a dark satire and misses the point completely on objectivism. If Ayn Rand herself sees city of Rapture, she will atmire its engineering achievement, yet disgusted by Andrew Ryan's ideas and means.
@@akiramiller9025 Oh? If objectivism failed for you (which I am sorry for you to think that.) Then what principle and ideals you follow for yourself? You must have philosophy you follow that helps you to live, so what that be is something you must understand.
@@samjudge1240 objectivism doesn't work scientifically and Logically. Anarcho capitalism even have a higher chance with working. should people legally be allowed to sleep with animal's answer that question
@@akiramiller9025 Then what is your alternative to philosophy you follow? I see value in Ayn Rand, the same I see in Aristotle, so you can't be that dismissive and calm you follow no one. So I'll text politely, if objectivism doesn't work, then what is your alternative philosophy you reccomend? What man can follow in ideas?
How hardheaded must you have to be to leave the bioshock experience with “objectivism is good and they just didn’t commit hard enough”? If there was no government there’d be nothing to overthrow? That’s fucking silly dude you have to know that
Andrew Rayn not exactly the goverment of rupter he actually had the biggest capital in rupter he is indevidual who have its own police and while no one is threaten his power he plays in objectivism ideology but then fontain starts to threten his capital and his power he starts to play in his own interest through his ideology out and its not fault of ryan as goverment and Fontain as criminal couse he isnt goverment in the way Ayn Rand describes and why do we can blame for man pretected his capital in such system there u can use what ever u want if able to achive success Fontain pulls chain in his direction in his intrestes with any moral using what ever he want (whats actually justified by system of objectevism) and ryan do it aswell free market why would i not use a police or force of violence on my economyc aponnent to achive victory on free market its free of moral of control its my right choose how to fight isnt it what really destroyed the system of rupter its couses they system wont work from a start as it suppose to work couse it would never work that way some of people always stays out of market some become more bigger some fades and if u most powerfull on market dosent it make goverment but goverment not goverment for all but only for u coose u the winner why not choose u as goverment who would make anything in u own interest
"What I was trying to do with BioShock was to say, ‘Okay, well, [in Atlas Shrugged] that’s a utopia where Ayn Rand, who made the philosophy, made all the rules, and all the characters were under her control. What if things weren’t under everybody’s control?’ And I think that’s the problem with utopias - we bring ourselves to it, you know? We think we’re leaving our problems behind but - I don’t mean this in a cynical way - we are the problem. Like whatever social problems that occur come out of us. It’s not like they fall out of the sky. I think people think they’re going to go to a utopian society, and I think it’s not really possible." -Bioshock Designer "BIOSHOCK IS A CRITIQUE OF AYN RAND PRINCPIPLES LMOA XD" - High IQ TH-camrs
@@lovelifeanarchy what about that quote shows that he supports ayn rands philosophy and disproves that the game is clearly critiquing the end result of her philosophy.
@@lovelifeanarchy you’re pro-rand so I’ll use this example. If I were to show you a story that revolved around the philosophy of Karl Marx and in that story the result of the societal experiment was a dramatic failure, Most would assume that as a critique of the philosophy. It would be strange for me to take such a story and say “ah yes this story is not a critique of the philosophy of Marxism despite it making evident that the story’s society was built around that Philosophy and then proceeded to show that society’s epic collapse” like that seems to me that you came into this deep dive with a bias towards the philosophy of objectivism and went through it with the basis that the philosophy is right and anything that happens to show it failing is external to the philosophy and is not an fault of the philosophy.
>If I were to show you a story that revolved around the philosophy of Karl Marx and in that story the result of the societal experiment was a dramatic failure. I actually did do that in the 2 hour version (th-cam.com/video/bzOVZM_DiJY/w-d-xo.html). Karl Marx's philosophy was carried out in Soviet Russia, so I had that real-world history of societal failure to draw from. Ayn Rand philosophy doesn't have a real-world equivalent. The closest I could use is Bioshock and/or Early America. I should remind you that Bioshock is a video game which was all designed by Ken Levine. He has stated that this game wasn't meant to be a criticism of Ayn Rand, but an exploration of a failed utopia. He does this to make his games interesting, not to criticise philosophy. He did a similar thing with Bioshock Infinite.
it's so odd how quickly you can switch between a nicely structured and cohesive analysis and plot recount of bioshock to this weird and biased assessment of the past and half thought out political stances. this is the most overt propaganda i've ever seen
What's odd is I knew what TH-cam channels you were subscribed to before I checked your profile. The Case Against Breadtube: www.lovelifeanarchy.com/breadtube
@@lovelifeanarchy i mean it’s not odd at all? it’s one of the reasons i can see through such brazen political signaling hidden in the context of a video game analysis. my content consumption doesn’t invalidate my take at all and it’s silly of you to assume it does
@@lovelifeanarchy ohhh so that's why you were nuked from youtube. ah well. try to keep the bigotry and misinformation to a minimum when you can it'll yield positive results
I didn't hear any points of view from the rebel faction, except in the trailer scenes. Calling Ayn Rand a philosopher might be factually true, but it also implicates that her philosophy was noteworthy. I don't think that's the case.
@@scandalouspanda7489 The point of the game is that when government overstep their bounds and go directly against the ideas the city it's build on things start to fall apart. It's essentially "Government Bad" the game.
@@scandalouspanda7489 The creator of this video literally said you can't blame libertarianism for the fall of Rapture... because that's a dumb argument.
@@scandalouspanda7489 The game kinda concludes the complete opposite - the abandonment of libertarian principles of objectivity and the embrace of altruist government led to Rapture's eventual doom.
@@lovelifeanarchy Terrible rebuttal I can understand believing that the state *and* capitalism is good But saying that state is bad, but still thinking and believing capitalism is good Is really fucking stupid
@@Resplencemelodi what a fuckin terrific response captain dipshit! objectivists aren't objective because they don't acknowledge the *objective* fact that objectivism is raw dog piss
Thought I'd get to watch an objective analysis of the philosophy of the game. Turns out it's just an Anarcho-Capitalist propaganda. Like actually, who plays Bioshock and comes out with the thought, "actually that was a great idea."
Yeah, I was definitely enjoying it a lot more before I realized he agreed with Rand. lol. I was excited to see an analysis on how it was clearly the most ridiculous idea ever. I mean, in theory couldn't Fontaine have just robbed people but offered paid security services w/ no government? You know, like the mob. There was also the fact the little girls were being stolen and used to generate adam because once again, no regulations! And of course, their dads were being made into big daddies because again, no regulations. The entire game is the antithesis to Atlas Shrugged. It's fuckin' great!
@@imorokr So you went into this expecting something which you already agreed with and got mad when it turned into something else? Grow up! I'm not sure where I stand on objectivism but regarding the idea that Bioshock is an antithesis is completely wrong because Andrew Ryan himself does things which Ayn Rand and objectivism rejected. For example, Andrew Ryan nationalizing Fontaine industries is a complete rejection of objectivism.
@@robrick9361 what in the world made you think this video made me mad? I literally watched an entire video on something I disagreed with and then commented with my criticisms. Have you ever considered getting your head out of your ass? Disrespect aside, what do you think Ayn Rand would've done if presented with the same scenario? A criminal willing to lie, kill and steal infiltrates your freedom utopia and becomes incredibly wealthy and powerful. What would you/she do about it?
@@imorokr You realize I can reread your comments? They don't just evaporate once they pop out of your tiny head. Let me refresh you with the following; "Yeah, I was definitely enjoying it a lot more before I realized he agreed with Rand. lol. I was excited to see an analysis on how it was clearly the most ridiculous idea ever." You went in with preconceived ideas and then immediately dismissed the video once it didn't fit with your preconceived ideas. And thinking back know you're actually right I should have taken your "criticisms" more seriously. Everyone knows that criticisms involving "lol" are of the highest quality and clearly aren't dismissive or juvenile.
Loved your analysis. I like how you contrasted Andrew Ryan's "rejection" of mysticism with his embrace of mysticism of the "Great Chain". Shows how you really understood that Bioshock was creating a strawman of Objectivism which it tried to tear down.
@@lovelifeanarchy Besides being a bad metaphor, one can explain supply and demand in mathematical terms without invoking some mystical "Great Chain". The Bioshock writers are using the concept of the Great Chain to attempt to prove that Capitalism is another form of mysticism. Adam Smith designed this metaphor to appeal to a mostly religious audience during that time.
@@SagBobet >one can explain supply and demand in mathematical terms. Creatives use metaphors to help describe difficult concepts. Image search 'demand supply curve' on google to see a graph of it in mathematical terms, which is hard to communicate. >Adam Smith designed this metaphor to appeal to a mostly religious audience during that time. So Adam Smith really did design it as a metaphor and not as a mystical claim. Really shows how you really understood that Bioshock wasn't creating a strawman of Objectivism which you tried to tear down. LMAO XD
@@lovelifeanarchy I'm not sure now...do you agree with Bioshock's portrayal of Objectivism or not? I thought you didn't from the video and you did an excellent analysis, but seems like maybe I misunderstood your point. I'm not saying the Great Chain is mysticism, I'm just saying that it was an unfortunate choice of metaphor by Adam Smith and therefore interpreted by the writers of the story as god-like presence instead of a factual principle.
@@SagBobet >I'm not saying the Great Chain is mysticism >with his embrace of mysticism of the "Great Chain" See how's that confusing? I'm not sure what you're arguing for at this point. You said: The Bioshock writers are using the concept of the Great Chain to attempt to prove that Capitalism is another form of mysticism. The writer of the story (Ken Levine) knows about the invisible hand metaphor. He put what he understood of Ayn Rand and Objectivism into Andrew Ryan - that's why he used the Great Chain metaphor (being industrious) and not Invisible Hand. Watch the 2 hour version of "Philosophy of Bioshock" on my channel XD
in an anarcocapitalist society, the biggest corporation would eventually have the power that represented the state, and would be able to do worst things bc of the market and its demands
@@whitehavencpu6813 What if you live in a small town, with only one private toll road leading to it. What are you going to do when the owner starts massively overcharging?
@@whitehavencpu6813 Very efficient system. And what if the famers on the route dont want to sell their land? What if the current road company puts it in their contract that they're not allowed to sell their land to competitors? And lets say the second road company builds their road right next to the other, and for some reason they compete instead of just making a cartel deal. They both now decrease the prices to a reasonable level, but only have 50% of the market that was there before. That doesn't sound like a profitable market the road companies would invest in again. People often say that certain left wing Ideas only work on paper, but these libertarian ideas literally only work if you forget how much of an advantage owning land in a certain location is.
LLA, I've been watching your videos, Boy do I love them, I'd say you and me agree on just about every issue, there's only one thing I disagree on though and that's anarchy, I'm not an Anarchist, How ever there is one form of Government I support, one and only one, and that is the Original Constitutional republic set out by the founding fathers of the United States, The current United States government is nothing but a rotten shell, an absolute abomination. a crude mockery of the dream of the founding fathers. We must return to what they wanted lest America be gone to the winds of history for ever.
Without watching the video I would like to leave a comment. This Ayn Rand woman is clearly a heavy influence upon Andrew Ryan's character. Their background is kind of similar as well
Fotain is a perfect illustration of why objectivitivism doesn't work. It is not that he didn't follow the principals it is that he did exactly what the principals told him to - prioritize himself over everyone else. He is a perfect objectivist in that sense.
You mistakenly think that objectivists are ultimately parasites. The opposite is true and it is made abundantly clear in this film. Objectivists are against ALL parasitical behavior because it is at the cost of others. There is a firm principle of doing no harm, as well as a foundation of reason. The problem is rather the lack of being faithful to objectivist ideals from both Fotain and Ryan as the film clearly explains. Their human flaw of getting power hungry comes at the cost of reason. Irrational selfishness is not seen as virtuous. If an athlete gets lazy and too fat you can't say "see, there's no point in discipline!" You cannot claim that a philosophy fails if it is clearly not followed.
![The Philosophy of Star Trek [Federation, Post Scarcity Economy, Alien Cultures]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZpXacI4v1F8/mqdefault.jpg)
www.LoveLifeAnarchy.com/Bioshock
wow welcome back its been quite a while since the banning from answering the red question
@@charlesballiet7074 what do you mean?
@@ameliepoulain1825 he used to have much edgyer content like the JQ
@@charlesballiet7074 didn't he have a different belief and removed this videos or something, I remember seeing reupload channels dedicated to these bio shock vids in particular
@@ameliepoulain1825 there was a really good one on communism throught history though it ends with wpww
Bioshock is considered an exposé of an Ayn Rand "atlas shrugged" world, but its through the lense of an Aldous Huxley view. Similar to how a religous person would try to envision a non religious world.
Interesting take. Great description of objectivism and Rand, and your video quality and narration is excellent. In fact, I would argue that Rapture was doomed from well before Ryan started acting out of his principles of Objectivism (which led him to ultimately tell you to kill him because of how committed he was), particularly with Fontaine and how Rapture was set up. The creators have stated their goals for these worlds of Bioshock 1 and 2 (which explores collectivism as the other side of the coin) is to make you explore environments where if you took principles completely all the way to their fullest extent, what are some possible outcomes, both good and bad? I argue that many of the things that destroyed Rapture were direct results of Objectivist principles, well before Ryan became an all-out authoritarian.
1. Frank Fontaine was not an altruist, nor did he use altruism in any way, shape or form other than right at the end as a means to manipulate others in his own self-interest by starting businesses to undermine Ryan. The majority of his business work was in line with Rapture's goals, and he was allowed into the city legally as an entrepreneur. His fisheries revolutionized food production in Rapture, and he expanded into the unregulated scientific market. The principles he utilized in his scientific endeavors to sell plasmids were done in his own self-interest -- to provide the market with a service people wanted (the plasmids to make people become perfect). The market desired this, and since science was unregulated, they were allowed to do so. Frank Fontaine's smuggling was arguably more in-line with capitalist and objectivist principles than Andrew Ryan: he had the means to provide services the people wanted, and he did so. This video painted him as a "criminal and con man and thug," all of which he was ... but his principles were the same as Ryan's and Rand's: he was working legally within the market for his own self-interest. This is why Ryan said that the Great Chain must be pulled in all directions, but Fontaine was pulling it too hard that it snapped. Pure competition and allowing to the whims of the market, added with no regulations and only people who want to use the market to find the products people want with no ethical restrictions on science, created the plasmid industry. This was entirely the creation of Objectivism *before* Ryan stepped in and broke his Objectivist principles. You mentioned in your other video that Fontaine did not share Rand's morality of seeing individuals as traders and purchasers; however, I argue that this world shows that Rand's philosophy of unregulated free markets allows and in some cases incentivizes individuals like Fontaine with this amorality to act purely in their own self-interest to sell products to customers that will in some way hurt them. It's not simply about whether or not he shared the view of "rational, self-interested people," it's showing what kind of people would exploit a society run by purely Objectivist principles. Many people have good intentions behind systems, but the effects those systems have and behaviors they allow and incentivize are a part of discussing whether or not these systems are moral, regardless of original intentions. Without any regulations or restrictions, people like Fontaine are only subject to market competition and consumer boycotts as recourse, the latter of which seemed impossible once individuals became addicted.
2. There was no official "government" of Rapture. Ryan ran the city because he was the richest and created it. This vacuum of power allowed him to create his own security force, his own council, etc. But there was no official sanction on others creating their own security forces. Ryan did not set up anything because he believed it would be too much for people to exploit (like the ancap principles). However, because the city was large and there was no regulations on preventing anyone from gaining power through private means of their own, Ryan set up security cameras, constables, etc. *of his own accord and means.* This allowed him to have the vacuum of power you mentioned, which set up people like Lamb and Fontaine out of their own self-interest to want to obtain that power. I believe the game is speaking on the inevitability of power structures, and even when one tries to set up a community without one, leaders inevitably arise when there are clear classes of people (someone has to scrub the toilets and someone has to sit in board meetings).
3. The ADAM and plasmid industry were a direct result of Objectivist philosophies calling for the lack of government regulation on science to avoid unethical procedures. The blood spattered on the wall that said, "ADAM gives us no reason to no longer be perfect" says it all. These hand-picked scientists by Ryan (Tenenbaum, Suchong, etc.) often talked about wanting scientific research into what makes a man strong versus what makes a man weak. They wanted to create a type of people, or create a product that allowed men to skip the "weak" stage and manipulate the double helix themselves. This unregulated science allowed a businessman like Fontaine to capitalize on it, sell it to the market with the spin of telling people to buy it, and people in their own self-interest and free will bought these products (until they became addicted). They were interested in fixing their flaws, becoming perfect, so they bought it of their own accord. No government forced them to.
Rapture goes much deeper than just a surface level "we tried to run an Objectivist society, but we abandoned those principles and it came to ruins." It explores the entire idea of self-interest in an unregulated market, and if you created a world and only allowed those in their self-interest to promote their own products and ideas, what would happen? People like Fontaine, Suchong, Tannenbaum would be a natural part of such a society. They are operating within their own self-interest and that alone. Fontaine's 'altruistic' orphanages were purely a means of manipulation of the poor class for his own monetary gain. It is true that Ryan restricted materials from the outside world and Fontaine's smuggling business was a direct result from that un-Objectivist move. However, Fontaine's business of smuggling was only a small part of his endeavors, and his fisheries and scientific and other means of speaking to the lower class were perfectly legal and in fact incentivized in this system. If you read the novel, characters are mostly functioning unregulated until the very end.
By taking Objectivism out to its fullest extent, I argue that is quite in line with how strongly Rand states them. She clearly believed that Objectivism completely understands the theory of human nature and every man should follow it as their only principle to a free society. This game seeks to explore that kind of marketplace. What would be the full effects of that? What kind of people like Fontaine would seek to start businesses for their own interests, but not others? What kind of scientists and artists would be interested in that kind of world, and what would they find? What are the true ramifications of unrestricted scientific achievement? And what kinds of vacuums of power would be created and attempted to be controlled?
Bioshock 2 flips this script and explores the other side: what are the true horrors of collectivist thought and how devastating that can be? Sofia Lamb's manipulation of the poor class for her own ideology is also explored in the book alongside these critiques of Objectivism. As I said at the beginning, the creators have said their goals for these games is to create environments where if you took principles completely all the way to their fullest extent, what are some possible outcomes? Which is why many philosophers don't stake their claim in just one theory, they read dozens and figure out what they believe to be the best course of action. Choosing only one can have potentially immense iatrogenic effects.
You'd probably like the two hour version I made that addresses your points with more depth. It's on this channel.
@@lovelifeanarchy fontaine feels like a nihilist, a man that watches the world burn but does the burning for his profitability and greed
The world is able to support everyone's need but not everyone's greed
Well-written piece!
Great comment, you pinpoint what this video completly missed
what a long message for a mistake at the very start about objectivism.
Bioshock is a critique of Rand's beliefs, but I find it pretty funny that it took magical sea slugs which grant you superpowers to corrupt the ideology
Good to see you back on TH-cam again.
The amount of work you put into this video is astonishing. What a guy!😀
Andrew Ryan was self-made? He happened to find oil on his property! He's as far off from earning the sweat of his brow as humanly possible.
Who was responsible for digging it up?
@@scandalouspanda7489 The designer agrees with him, my friend. Imagine being so close-minded that you have to come up with some ignorant conclusion that your favorite game's sole purpose is to criticize an ideology you don't like, but when it's anti-socialist you make up many excuses like "that wasn't REAL socialism!" Cope.
To say Andrew Ryan worked for his achievements is like saying I earned being a millionaire because I won a lottery ticket I found on the street
Bioshock is my favorite franchise of life. Your video is amazing, I really really love it.
I'm starting to read Ayn Rand for the first time.
Learned a lot more from this than I thought, and have shown it to several others as a sort of example of how intricately you can intertwine meaningful philosophical observations with an engaging video game or movie to create a truly memorable experience.
also excellent music choice :)
Check out the longer one when you have the time, you'll enjoy it a lot more.
Thanks for a detailed breakdown on Objectivism. I found it very interesting. Most videos i find are usually x=evil y=good, and this felt like a cool guest lecture.
this deserves 10k views
Pregunto: Como el hombre va a tener el derecho al sudor de su frente en el capitalismo? Cuando en la práctica los que gozan de las riquezas del trabajo es una pequeña parte que no ha trabajado nada. Quién es el parásito, el obrero o el empresario? No se han parado a pensar que el culto al Libre mercado y el Objetivismo como "La palabra de Dios" en la religión no es otra cosa con la que los manipulan para robarle su trabajo...
Viva Franco
Tienes toda la razón. El creador de este video es un idiota. Hizo un video en detalle del juego, y no entendio que es una critica. Esa filosofía es tan erronea como el Communismo.
@@lovelifeanarchy that's not an answer dude
@@lovelifeanarchy Discusting facist.
Well done! What footage is the Ayn-ran looking actress at 3:14 from?
Passion of Ayn Rand 1999
Thank you so much for these! Its so important for the future!
Just joined mailing list!
I m a brazilian communist. I want to start doing content in portuguese, similiar to this kind of thing, but for my country. Great video, i did not know some of the external references. Im surprised how theres few videos about this theme on the internet.
Aw dang it ...now I spoiled myself. Hadn't finished the game yet and didnt know the atlas Fontaine thing
Who is Atlas?
Who is Atlas?
that's good and all, but I'm more curious, why someone with anarchy in his name (or in general) has the swastika as part of it's logo
@@EleumNoice We did it!
Great video.
Beautifully told and it makes me want to play the Bioshock games just for the story and the magic of this utopian steampunk world. They have been on my shelf of shame for years.
People of culture say "Mulligan's Valley"
@22:55 was the most romantic thing anyone has ever said to me
Rapture is actually a pretty legit depiction of where Objectivism leads logically. Rand preached so vehemently against faith, but her entire social philosophy crumbles without placing faith in a utopian centralized government that's immune to internal corruption. Much like Socialism, Objectivism conveniently ignores the inevitability of human nature and only works if every participant is voluntarily involved, and there's a word for the only sociopolitical structure that allows for such a situation to exist in the first place; Anarchy.
This was really informative, thank you.
Love the work you put in!
Problem is Ayan Rand was a bit of an idiot and knew it, she purposfully misused words, their definitions, and the concepts they represent and attacked people for pointing this out, and made up her own definitions to fit with the concepts she rallied against but that's ironically not how you objectively analyze something, you can't change something to just fit your narrative if you're trying to be objective
If power corrupts then both big businesses AND governments are the issue.
Thank you
Get rid of big business and government and someone else steps in as the powerful. It’s just human nature. A good example is Cuba. Before Castro, Cuba was lead by a military dictator who was corrupt AF, so the people rose up and overthrew him and brought in a man of the people. We all know hw that worked out.
Rapture was no different. What was meant to be a society free of government and religion ended up falling into a dictatorship and revolution to overthrow said dictator
It is the nature of Man to circle around powerful, societal figureheads.
There's no "nature of man" other than the hegemonic culture that is imposed on us from birth
@@ac521 Cuba was a slave colony by the Spanish, then the US and capitalism brought Batista to set up a giant brothel island at the service of white people.
Castro might be worth of criticism
But he did what was necessary to remove the imperialists from Cuba
Very well done and well explained video.
This is a great video! I always knew about the philosophy of objectivism, but you made me understand it!!
You're welcome.
Poor people = bad
Rich people = chad
Me = chad
A bastion of intellectualism, eh?
Ryan was a dictator.
Technically not true
But yeah
I would say he was a cultish figure who lead a cult of personality, not a de-jure leader but a de-facto one similar to anarchists figureheads or religious leaders.
He was a typical libertarian who had some form of power in their hands. Similar to Elon Musk.
...well look at Elon Musk, and what he is doing with Mars!
Off of the labour of children in the 3rd world
Indentured servitude?
@Quinton J. Cope
Ryan being power corrupt, is honestly what I think to be the criticism of classical libertarianism itself. These people always wanted to point out small, limited, to no government -- yet they themselves wield power, like a government. We criticize communism, socialism, with it being never tried, that the weak link of the government being corrupt, yet we give capitalism and libertarianism a pass, when in practice, people and the corporations become the government themselves. "Betrayal" of the principle is exactly the point, as it is inevitable, and to point out "if we only remained consistent" it would have worked well, when the problem is that we can't remain consistent.
This video is so educational!
Great video!
Dude this documentary is so well made, huge kudos for producing such high quality content. Fellow Objectivists would respect your dedication
> Fellow Objectivists would respect your dedication
My sweet summer child...
>channel name is livelifeanarchy
*gets called an objectivist
What happened to the original video ? :o
Watch my "Case Study" video.
Great video, you have earned my subscription.
excellent
What happened to the intro?
What's your opinion on Bioshock Infinite?
This was a very weird conclusion you had there. How can you not blame "objectivism" for the fall of rupture? In the objectivist view: it was "objectively" required to ban those trades that started the chain of events that eventually led to the downfall of Rupture. In a more sensible analytical thinking process: it was the laissez-faire that made it possible that people were moving contraband which in turn required objectivists to put an end to it.
I know it does not make sense when I say "objectivism cancelled objectivism." It's the problem with objectivism, as it is really just an another idea like "god," you have to assume that it exists and it is ever-present. Yet, in our current day and age, it is becoming more and more clear that there is no objective truth, there is no objective experience. It is all in the end very subjective, this is how our brains work to begin with. I know you don't talk about this aspect of objectivism, you only pick the parts that are related to Bioshock's story directly. But in the Atlas Shrugged, one can see that the author talks about the objective in such a way that it is *almost objectively clear* that she is constituting God with objectivism.
>there is no objective truth
Is that an objective truth?
@@lovelifeanarchy No, it is not an objective truth. That statement is a product of observation, as it is possible for you to believe that there is an objective "truth," yet it is not for me, therefore the statement does not hold the property "objective."
Holly molly!
I think I found the worst take over the philosophy of Bioshock.
What bioshock makes really clear is that every characters of the downfall of rapture are rational actors acting in their own self interest. The point of bioshock is that no matter the people the shining objectivist city on the hill will inevitably become rapture.
Objectivism simply cannot endure reality.
One of the most important part of commentary of bioshock are the little sister.
Children have no place in objectivist society they have no moral value. So they become a commodity.
>What bioshock makes really clear is that every characters of the downfall of rapture are rational actors acting in their own self interest.
Yes, that's 100% describes the splicers exactly.
@@lovelifeanarchy and Ryan and Fountain. "Betraying" objectivism is the most objectivist thing Ryan does.
>"Betraying" objectivism is the most objectivist thing Ryan does.
He if betrays objectivism, then it can't be called objectivism - which is what I said in the conclusion.
@@lovelifeanarchy
Okay let me rephrase my statement : The betrayal of objectivist principals (mainly the laissez-faire system) is the logical conclusion of an objectivist society.
Someone wealth grows so their power grows so they can use their power to grow their wealth and so it continues up to the point where that person(moral or phisical) owns enough power to have a quasi monopoly on violence (phisical or other).
And what do we call a monopoly on violence? A state.
And according to objectivist principals they have the moral obligation to pursue their self interest.
And Andrew Ryan is the embodiment of that big hole in objectivism.
@@mattcraftien974 Neither Ayn Rand/Objectivism calls for anarchy. There is a state in objectivist societies that calls on the authority to maintain basic rights. Andrew Ryan was that authority in Rapture since he created it. He only used his power against Fontaine once the slicers were out of control and a danger to Rapture. I said this in both my bioshock videos.
...you know on your video on fallout I left a comment critiquing your arguments in favor of Mr. House, an authoritarian capitalist who cloaks his values in neoliberal ideology...I just processed that the Yellow & Black in your logo imply anarchocapitalist...so my critiquing "your an anarchist how do you not see the issue with this?" is...rather off point.
What happened to the other hour long video
Where I was last at 7:18
Is respecting others rights concidered altruistic?
Capitalism good.
Yep!
holy fuck great video !!!
I'll never understand why some people consider this game anti-capitalist. In any case, you can tell whatever story you like (and Bioshock tells it well), but that doesn't mean real life is going to play out that way.
With my understanding to objectivism and the books like Philosophy: who needs it and Anthem on my phone, bioshock is not Objectivism. At best it's a Libertarian/nietzschean setting. I don't see objectivism would embrace adam that makes you mad, or a complete rejection on government, as objectivism see good in government when done so correctly, such as protecting individual rights from force unless that individual cause force on another.
Bioshock is at best a dark satire and misses the point completely on objectivism. If Ayn Rand herself sees city of Rapture, she will atmire its engineering achievement, yet disgusted by Andrew Ryan's ideas and means.
government makes man weak objectism already failed as much as Communism
@@akiramiller9025 Oh? If objectivism failed for you (which I am sorry for you to think that.) Then what principle and ideals you follow for yourself? You must have philosophy you follow that helps you to live, so what that be is something you must understand.
@@samjudge1240 objectivism doesn't work scientifically and Logically. Anarcho capitalism even have a higher chance with working. should people legally be allowed to sleep with animal's answer that question
i simply believe philosophy is unscientific and a waste of time for human evolution
@@akiramiller9025 Then what is your alternative to philosophy you follow? I see value in Ayn Rand, the same I see in Aristotle, so you can't be that dismissive and calm you follow no one.
So I'll text politely, if objectivism doesn't work, then what is your alternative philosophy you reccomend? What man can follow in ideas?
Are you now a paleolibertarian or how would you describe your worldview?
Hoppe Ancap
@@lovelifeanarchy Ancap?!
@@krhashatha1267 ye
@@lovelifeanarchy A fellow libertarian?? Minarchist here. I personally think Hoppe is a bit bigoted imo.
Just waiting for TH-cam to delete this and to give you a strike like all your other videos and channels.
Just waiting for you to delete your frontal lobe like you deleted your Twitter.
@@DeandreSteven what?
dear god i wish youtube was that responsible
How hardheaded must you have to be to leave the bioshock experience with “objectivism is good and they just didn’t commit hard enough”? If there was no government there’d be nothing to overthrow? That’s fucking silly dude you have to know that
Reason is not enough because itself can be corrupted
Good job
Where are you from, you have a very interesting accent ? kinda like it
I am from my mums vajayjay
@@lovelifeanarchy well ain’t that the truth
Andrew Rayn not exactly the goverment of rupter he actually had the biggest capital in rupter he is indevidual who have its own police and while no one is threaten his power he plays in objectivism ideology but then fontain starts to threten his capital and his power he starts to play in his own interest through his ideology out and its not fault of ryan as goverment and Fontain as criminal couse he isnt goverment in the way Ayn Rand describes and why do we can blame for man pretected his capital in such system there u can use what ever u want if able to achive success Fontain pulls chain in his direction in his intrestes with any moral using what ever he want (whats actually justified by system of objectevism) and ryan do it aswell free market why would i not use a police or force of violence on my economyc aponnent to achive victory on free market its free of moral of control its my right choose how to fight isnt it what really destroyed the system of rupter its couses they system wont work from a start as it suppose to work couse it would never work that way some of people always stays out of market some become more bigger some fades and if u most powerfull on market dosent it make goverment but goverment not goverment for all but only for u coose u the winner why not choose u as goverment who would make anything in u own interest
Should do one on that crazy Karen cult leader
Subbed
Did you really do this in depth video on bioshock without ever realizing that this game is a critique of Ayn Rands principles? Lol.
"What I was trying to do with BioShock was to say, ‘Okay, well, [in Atlas Shrugged] that’s a utopia where Ayn Rand, who made the philosophy, made all the rules, and all the characters were under her control. What if things weren’t under everybody’s control?’ And I think that’s the problem with utopias - we bring ourselves to it, you know? We think we’re leaving our problems behind but - I don’t mean this in a cynical way - we are the problem. Like whatever social problems that occur come out of us. It’s not like they fall out of the sky. I think people think they’re going to go to a utopian society, and I think it’s not really possible." -Bioshock Designer
"BIOSHOCK IS A CRITIQUE OF AYN RAND PRINCPIPLES LMOA XD" - High IQ TH-camrs
@@lovelifeanarchy what about that quote shows that he supports ayn rands philosophy and disproves that the game is clearly critiquing the end result of her philosophy.
@@lovelifeanarchy you’re pro-rand so I’ll use this example. If I were to show you a story that revolved around the philosophy of Karl Marx and in that story the result of the societal experiment was a dramatic failure, Most would assume that as a critique of the philosophy. It would be strange for me to take such a story and say “ah yes this story is not a critique of the philosophy of Marxism despite it making evident that the story’s society was built around that Philosophy and then proceeded to show that society’s epic collapse” like that seems to me that you came into this deep dive with a bias towards the philosophy of objectivism and went through it with the basis that the philosophy is right and anything that happens to show it failing is external to the philosophy and is not an fault of the philosophy.
>If I were to show you a story that revolved around the philosophy of Karl Marx and in that story the result of the societal experiment was a dramatic failure.
I actually did do that in the 2 hour version (th-cam.com/video/bzOVZM_DiJY/w-d-xo.html). Karl Marx's philosophy was carried out in Soviet Russia, so I had that real-world history of societal failure to draw from. Ayn Rand philosophy doesn't have a real-world equivalent. The closest I could use is Bioshock and/or Early America.
I should remind you that Bioshock is a video game which was all designed by Ken Levine. He has stated that this game wasn't meant to be a criticism of Ayn Rand, but an exploration of a failed utopia. He does this to make his games interesting, not to criticise philosophy. He did a similar thing with Bioshock Infinite.
@@lovelifeanarchy I mean, he's not wrong. It's clearly a criticism of the philosophy, and objectivism is a flawed ideology.
it's so odd how quickly you can switch between a nicely structured and cohesive analysis and plot recount of bioshock to this weird and biased assessment of the past and half thought out political stances. this is the most overt propaganda i've ever seen
What's odd is I knew what TH-cam channels you were subscribed to before I checked your profile.
The Case Against Breadtube:
www.lovelifeanarchy.com/breadtube
@@lovelifeanarchy i mean it’s not odd at all? it’s one of the reasons i can see through such brazen political signaling hidden in the context of a video game analysis. my content consumption doesn’t invalidate my take at all and it’s silly of you to assume it does
The parasite hates three things: free markets, free will and free cis men.
@@lovelifeanarchy ohhh so that's why you were nuked from youtube. ah well. try to keep the bigotry and misinformation to a minimum when you can it'll yield positive results
@@Patumusic LMAO XD
I didn't hear any points of view from the rebel faction, except in the trailer scenes. Calling Ayn Rand a philosopher might be factually true, but it also implicates that her philosophy was noteworthy. I don't think that's the case.
Ur an anarcho capitalist urself??
Well libertarianism is good on paper but I doubt they'll ever be a feasible system
Has a better chance of working than forcing all the industrial workers into slavery through threat of violence.
@@scandalouspanda7489 The point of the game is that when government overstep their bounds and go directly against the ideas the city it's build on things start to fall apart. It's essentially "Government Bad" the game.
@@scandalouspanda7489 The creator of this video literally said you can't blame libertarianism for the fall of Rapture... because that's a dumb argument.
@@scandalouspanda7489 The game kinda concludes the complete opposite - the abandonment of libertarian principles of objectivity and the embrace of altruist government led to Rapture's eventual doom.
@@whitehavencpu6813 Socialists be like "actually NOOOO" I've tried telling these people, they just won't listen.
Holy shit
A modern media account that doesnt hate ayn rand?
Consider me subbed, spongebob me boy
Ancaps are not anarchists
Communists are not people
@@lovelifeanarchy
Terrible rebuttal
I can understand believing that the state *and* capitalism is good
But saying that state is bad, but still thinking and believing capitalism is good
Is really fucking stupid
@@vintheguy People are not communists
@@Resplencemelodi
what a fuckin terrific response captain dipshit!
objectivists aren't objective because they don't acknowledge the *objective* fact that objectivism is raw dog piss
@@vintheguy Very nice. Please face wall
Thought I'd get to watch an objective analysis of the philosophy of the game. Turns out it's just an Anarcho-Capitalist propaganda.
Like actually, who plays Bioshock and comes out with the thought, "actually that was a great idea."
Yeah, I was definitely enjoying it a lot more before I realized he agreed with Rand. lol. I was excited to see an analysis on how it was clearly the most ridiculous idea ever. I mean, in theory couldn't Fontaine have just robbed people but offered paid security services w/ no government? You know, like the mob. There was also the fact the little girls were being stolen and used to generate adam because once again, no regulations! And of course, their dads were being made into big daddies because again, no regulations. The entire game is the antithesis to Atlas Shrugged. It's fuckin' great!
@@imorokr So you went into this expecting something which you already agreed with and got mad when it turned into something else? Grow up!
I'm not sure where I stand on objectivism but regarding the idea that Bioshock is an antithesis is completely wrong because Andrew Ryan himself does things which Ayn Rand and objectivism rejected. For example, Andrew Ryan nationalizing Fontaine industries is a complete rejection of objectivism.
@@robrick9361 what in the world made you think this video made me mad? I literally watched an entire video on something I disagreed with and then commented with my criticisms. Have you ever considered getting your head out of your ass?
Disrespect aside, what do you think Ayn Rand would've done if presented with the same scenario? A criminal willing to lie, kill and steal infiltrates your freedom utopia and becomes incredibly wealthy and powerful. What would you/she do about it?
@@imorokr You realize I can reread your comments? They don't just evaporate once they pop out of your tiny head.
Let me refresh you with the following;
"Yeah, I was definitely enjoying it a lot more before I realized he agreed with Rand. lol. I was excited to see an analysis on how it was clearly the most ridiculous idea ever."
You went in with preconceived ideas and then immediately dismissed the video once it didn't fit with your preconceived ideas.
And thinking back know you're actually right I should have taken your "criticisms" more seriously.
Everyone knows that criticisms involving "lol" are of the highest quality and clearly aren't dismissive or juvenile.
@@robrick9361 hmm, perhaps the fact that he betrayed his own principles when convenient to him is part of the point? Ayn Rand herself did the same.
It's funny how I believe in the beliefs but those beliefs are inherently wrong and horrible for humanity
“Can we watch BadEmpanada?”
“We have BadEmpanada at home”
The BadEmpanada at home:
Loved your analysis. I like how you contrasted Andrew Ryan's "rejection" of mysticism with his embrace of mysticism of the "Great Chain". Shows how you really understood that Bioshock was creating a strawman of Objectivism which it tried to tear down.
The "Great Chain" is a metaphor for how the market works, it's not mysticism.
@@lovelifeanarchy Besides being a bad metaphor, one can explain supply and demand in mathematical terms without invoking some mystical "Great Chain". The Bioshock writers are using the concept of the Great Chain to attempt to prove that Capitalism is another form of mysticism. Adam Smith designed this metaphor to appeal to a mostly religious audience during that time.
@@SagBobet
>one can explain supply and demand in mathematical terms.
Creatives use metaphors to help describe difficult concepts. Image search 'demand supply curve' on google to see a graph of it in mathematical terms, which is hard to communicate.
>Adam Smith designed this metaphor to appeal to a mostly religious audience during that time.
So Adam Smith really did design it as a metaphor and not as a mystical claim. Really shows how you really understood that Bioshock wasn't creating a strawman of Objectivism which you tried to tear down. LMAO XD
@@lovelifeanarchy I'm not sure now...do you agree with Bioshock's portrayal of Objectivism or not? I thought you didn't from the video and you did an excellent analysis, but seems like maybe I misunderstood your point.
I'm not saying the Great Chain is mysticism, I'm just saying that it was an unfortunate choice of metaphor by Adam Smith and therefore interpreted by the writers of the story as god-like presence instead of a factual principle.
@@SagBobet
>I'm not saying the Great Chain is mysticism
>with his embrace of mysticism of the "Great Chain"
See how's that confusing? I'm not sure what you're arguing for at this point.
You said:
The Bioshock writers are using the concept of the Great Chain to attempt to prove that Capitalism is another form of mysticism.
The writer of the story (Ken Levine) knows about the invisible hand metaphor. He put what he understood of Ayn Rand and Objectivism into Andrew Ryan - that's why he used the Great Chain metaphor (being industrious) and not Invisible Hand.
Watch the 2 hour version of "Philosophy of Bioshock" on my channel XD
capitalism good
Ancap - aka "feudalism".
in an anarcocapitalist society, the biggest corporation would eventually have the power that represented the state, and would be able to do worst things bc of the market and its demands
Also in an AnCap society that corpo would collapse as competitors would take its place for breaching public trust.
@@whitehavencpu6813 What if you live in a small town, with only one private toll road leading to it. What are you going to do when the owner starts massively overcharging?
@@thijmstickman8349 Build a new one.
@@whitehavencpu6813 Very efficient system.
And what if the famers on the route dont want to sell their land? What if the current road company puts it in their contract that they're not allowed to sell their land to competitors?
And lets say the second road company builds their road right next to the other, and for some reason they compete instead of just making a cartel deal. They both now decrease the prices to a reasonable level, but only have 50% of the market that was there before. That doesn't sound like a profitable market the road companies would invest in again.
People often say that certain left wing Ideas only work on paper, but these libertarian ideas literally only work if you forget how much of an advantage owning land in a certain location is.
LLA, I've been watching your videos, Boy do I love them, I'd say you and me agree on just about every issue, there's only one thing I disagree on though and that's anarchy, I'm not an Anarchist, How ever there is one form of Government I support, one and only one, and that is the Original Constitutional republic set out by the founding fathers of the United States, The current United States government is nothing but a rotten shell, an absolute abomination. a crude mockery of the dream of the founding fathers. We must return to what they wanted lest America be gone to the winds of history for ever.
freeeeeen
@@lovelifeanarchy dude, Based redpilled.
Yikes. Big government it is.
Without watching the video I would like to leave a comment. This Ayn Rand woman is clearly a heavy influence upon Andrew Ryan's character. Their background is kind of similar as well
Fotain is a perfect illustration of why objectivitivism doesn't work. It is not that he didn't follow the principals it is that he did exactly what the principals told him to - prioritize himself over everyone else. He is a perfect objectivist in that sense.
You mistakenly think that objectivists are ultimately parasites. The opposite is true and it is made abundantly clear in this film.
Objectivists are against ALL parasitical behavior because it is at the cost of others. There is a firm principle of doing no harm, as well as a foundation of reason.
The problem is rather the lack of being faithful to objectivist ideals from both Fotain and Ryan as the film clearly explains. Their human flaw of getting power hungry comes at the cost of reason. Irrational selfishness is not seen as virtuous.
If an athlete gets lazy and too fat you can't say "see, there's no point in discipline!" You cannot claim that a philosophy fails if it is clearly not followed.
@FlorisDVijfde exactly correct. Its absolutely impossible to talk to dipshits without a brain.