Hey Benny Is there a way to personally reach out to you ?? I so need some dumbed down help asap !! Appreciate any help to complete my huge family project… was diagnosed with cancer a month ago and so need. Help to get this done… thank you !!
The stuff he talks down about other than decode is mostly a noisy composite signal getting captured straight to a highly compressed codec by some newer POS card that is usually meant for gaming.
I'm in full agreement. Rare as a unicorn but the easiest to use. It just has no proc controls, but if you can find one snatch it up while you still can. It's too bad they stopped production on them.
I was unhappy with the EasyCap analogue to digital USB converters. I even tried the mini upscaler to HDMI, HDMI to USB and wasn't happy with that. Essentially, all of these did their own deinterlacing that stunk - badly. I wanted to capture the video interlaced and find a way to deinterlace it myself. I ended up picking up a Sony DVMC-DA2 analogue to DV converter. This outputs a DV standard through FireWire. It was an astounding improvement in quality. Using virtualDub and the MSU deinterlacer, I was able to produce 59.94 FPS progressive scan versions that looked great. I still want a TBC though, to add even more quality. Thanks for teh informative video.
A converter that scales to an AR 16:9 has a TBC like function, you have to crop or transform in the software you're capturing with, or do that in post. with a DV converter you get (too) large files, which can't be handled during capturing, if you're on a old system.
@@schefre35 It does, DVCPro at 50mbps is just cutting it for acceptable refrance, ware as V210 uncompressed capture then FFV1 lossless compression is standard. Though this has its merits for Video8/Hi8 metadata via Digital8 camcorder but not for digitisation of the video signal that now has been surpassed by FM RF capture and software decoding with vhs-decode.
@@schefre35 DV compresses a color profile from 4:2:2 to 4:1:1. You lose half of your color information. The TBCs in this video convert an uncompressed 4:2:2 color profile.
@@TheRealHarrypm I recommend capturing Hi8 tapes on a pro deck and not a camcorder, because camcorders don't playback stereo 2-track uncompressed PCM audio and usually sound terrible.
Last peice of the puzzle coming Fall 2022 and the studio will be complete. Lots of work getting off the ground but in the end it will be worth it for high quality transfers.
Cheaper alternatives are the Pansonic ES10/15/16 DVD Players which have built in Semi- TBC obviously isn't the same as TBC-1000 but. If your not archiveing some rare tape then please do not worry about buying fancy thousand dollar S-VHS decks thats overkill for most people and if you don't have S-VHS tapes then theres litterally no point other then the TBC's they have but thats what the TBC-1000 or DVD recorder is for. VHS will always look bad to an extent its VHS afterall. I personally have a Zenith VCR from the 80s-90s made in Japan has 4 video heads and HIFI and is good quality all for the price of 40 bucks Canadian and then a Pansonic ES16 for some Semi-TBC and it looks great. Didn't need to spend 1000 dollars.
@@BenneWill No its not, its whole signal correction its never been "line correction" as its using the same code from ld-decode past the demodulation phase, the .tbc format has a entirely time base corrected 4fsc frame. The only tool in the family that does not time base correct is HiFi-Decode currently.
@@TheRealHarrypm Before I reply to this... just want to confirm we are speaking about the same terminology. When I use the word TBC, I am referring to the conversion of an analog video signal to a digital video signal.
@@BenneWill Okay... For context the "no its not" I was refuring to vhs-decode which uses the whole FM RF signal of a captured tape. I think you need to update your lexicon then, time base correction is the re-timing and stablising of analouge signal information, anything past that feature is just standard signal manipulation within the context of video handling. Digitisation is taking an analouge value to a digital one, what your refering to with "TBCs" broadly with the terminology your using is just digital processing which goes though an full AD / DA stage with processing in the middle, excluding ADV chips witch are multi-roll ICs. When the term digistiation is used in well a proper manner, it means its one way AD to file though normally sampled to an RGB/YUV stream from a baseband signal, in the case of the decode projects we just take the RAW FM RF signal off test points and capture that for tapes a single stage digistation skipping all but the tracking/pre-amplificaiton hardware and then with a file on hand we run that though vhs-decode witch is a multi stage de-modualtion / filtering / time base correction then dropout correction etc then we have a baseband or composite/Y+C file set on hand in the ".tbc" format witch is the full analouge signal frame. Fun fact about the "TBC format" is its 4fsc you can pipe that back to a DA or Digital to Analouge converter (if it supports 1vpp CVBS etc) and play back the decoded signal to standard equipment. After writing over 70 pages for the wiki I do recommend reading the vhs-decode wiki lol as it shows examples of the suit in use and of decoded data even a true signal errors page with the full signal frame used for refrance. Quite frankly anyone who links DigitalFAQ is just helping keep inflation up on well hardware that is outdated for even its intended use, the projects provide an direct and affordable hardware agnostic system that well allows anyone to do archival level trasfers of mediums from VHS to SMTPE 1" Type-C master reels. LS also has been spewing absoulute nonsence about the projects ever since they beat out ADV chips and the TBC-1000 back in 2020 lmao
@@TheRealHarrypm Smurf explained to me that VHS-Decode is post-capture line TBC for restoration when sources are gone. If you have the original tapes, recapture with a proper workflow. It does not convert an analog source for digital capturing. Any faults once digitized by say a DV converter are baked in, and software can only manipulate so much. It's superior to do edits in analog before converting to digital.
Nobody has been able to communicate exactly which of the Big Voodoos are "good ones," only that it's "early production run models." Okay, that's vague af. Is there a serial number range? How are you even sure of your purchase? There is so much random information out there and even though people talk about it as if they have a master's degree on the subject, there isn't actually any specificity about the equipment. I don't know... I'm sure some of these are fine and whatnot, but like you said... the gear is 25+ years old at this point. I'm not sure I trust any of it, certainly not enough to spend $5,000 on a "chance."
As I replied on some other comments. The main tell is the performance, certain chip combinations (ie, must open unit to find out). It's not about serials, or fonts, or anything externally visible. For TBCs, firmware on-chip matters as much as the chips, usually due to how multiple chips interact on the board. Structurally, there are some board tells, though not conclusive. Key West wasn't a large producer, not like DataVideo or Cypress, and the biggest production was for bad units (especially BVTBC). Most of what you're going to find online is junk that gets resold from person to person. The really only way to tell is to buy one, and test the performance. The reason good ones go for so much is because they are rare. DigitalFAQ guarantees testing before selling.
Most people wouldn’t know how to test them if they had them. You would have to have some kind of test tape. Something with timebase errors to give it a test. it’s tough to test something and say this is working when that’s the only one you’ve ever seen. No one you know owns one. What standard is expected? I would just buy that from digitalfaq or not get it at all because I have no clue how to tell if it’s a desired generation.
Don't go with easy cap your videos will look and sound crap . The Roland vr-5 works great for pro work in my business but out of the price range of the general person. Adobe premiere elements is great for adjusting the brightness , contrast, hue and saturation on videos.
*By the way... This channel is not primarily going to be a VHS channel. My expertice is working on film archives. I'm not an expert on VHS although know some facts. Most of my uploads are going to consist of film restoration and reel to reel audio.
Despite this fact I'll ask you if you know VHS-Decode project - basicaly a software TBC that can be improved at any time once you record (sample) tape signal to the PC. Warning, this is a nerdy level stuff.
@@Zcooger You seem to have a lot of experience with it. This is my unpopular opinion. I did some research and here is what I can gather. RF capture and TBCs are two separate things. I do know there are software TBCs for line correction, however nothing that comes close to physical hardware in SVHS decks. Software does continue to improve but works better on PAL. Software TBCs cannot recreate frame TBC and that is something entirely different. RF capture on the other hand is said to add increased sharpness to your capture. This is more or less a hack for getting better picture out of a cheap VCR to avoid buying expensive SVHS decks. It still requires frame and line corrections whether that be software or an external TBC.
@@Zcooger I spoke with one of the VHS gurus tonight in conversation, and our friend Kevin said this in a rather blunt tone as he always does... "As of now, I'd be willing to say that software TBCs, for this clip, has the power of ... hmm ... not an ES10/15, at least as good as a weak ES20/ES25, maybe a choking JVC or Panasonic, much better than ADVC-300 super-weak. That's a compliment! (ES10/15 are really bad compared to SVHS decks) The signal will require timing correction, period. Both frame and line, perhaps field. But trying to recreate TBC in software has not worked to date, and may never work. So hardware is likely still going to be required. But it'll have to be a new kind of TBC, not the standard A>D>A. This project has a lot of wild claims. And most of the claims come from people not developing it, nor understanding the fundamentals of digital video ingest. (Upscaling, Topaz, and "AI" are the same way. Lots of claims, most are half truths or nonsense.) VHS-Decode is not viable for actual VHS capturing yet, especially not NTSC. Anybody doing it currently will have rough results, worse than a standard workflow (using quality suggested gear). I dismiss a lot of these claims outright, because I've seen it over and over again. "VCD quality is great", etc etc. Functional, but not quality."
Something else you should mention... although the hardware can get expensive, as rare as these devices are, somebody else will buy it as soon as you put it back into the market. Easily.
My JVC HR-S7800U's line TBC seems to add a yellowish hue when enabled. Is that caps, or is that supposed to be normal? It's not a D65 white point.. I don't think.
I would say filed TBC is a frame TBC because analog is interlaced, However not many of them left, They were the very first generation of frame TBC back when memory is very small.
@@duncanmacleod2136 I don't know, It is not like they are in stores, These are obsolete devices they cost whatever the seller feels like charging for it.
For $2500 I could have sold you two BE75 and some extra cash to buy nice cables, And the quality as you can see from my channel far excedes any of the analog TBC's out there.
From my understanding, the Brighteyes are component only. No S-Vid which means you can't use SVHS decks, and the TBC from reviewers online is not as powerful as some of the others I have mentioned. Definitely better than going the DV route though.
@@BenneWill No Sir, that is incorrect, Y-C is exactly S-Video but instead of consumer S-Video socket it uses two BNC connectors for each signal, a passive cable BNC to S-Video is used to connect to consumer appliances with S-Video. How do you think I'm capturing VHS tapes to my channel with a S-VHS machine?
36:16 "I would recommend getting a TBC if you really care about the quality of tapes you are archiving. If you don't, and you are only going to look at them once... there is really no need to spend this kind of money"
@@slbvideoarchive grazie! Is the TBC in the 7800U a decent one? Do other JVC S-VHS units have better ones, or do the all work the same in the JVC's? on eBay, a few people were selling the 9900U or 9500U or something for a huge amount. One person wanted $1,400. This was a month or so ago. Wonder why that model was so expensive compared to the other JVC S-VHS units. wondering if the TBC is better.
@@mylovesongs2429 The first VCR you mentioned went by several names. MV45/M50, V101, V10, 7800/7900 which are all the same model. There were two lower-end models made by JVC with plastic parts and that was the 7800/7900 and 9800/9900 which were really fancier versions of the low end 5800U DigiPure. The 7500/7600 and 9500/9600 were JVCs top of the line consumer decks with dynamic drums and better built components. The 7800 (which I own) is a better machine than the 9800/9900, because it does not have a cheaply made dynamic drum, which is worse than having no dynamic drum at all. To further answer your question, the benefits of dynamic drums... you won't see a big difference and they are a bitch when they stop working. Only on some really bad tapes, when the TBC is stressed, will the extra RAM really make a visual difference. That happens only in extreme cases. If you go with the 7800 you are really not making a bad choice.
The algorithm brought me here. I've got a Key West Big Voodoo TBC and a PiP, had them for years. I would've spent less than $150 for both. My major issue with my TBC is if there's an error with the vertical sync coming off-tape, the whole picture becomes garbled. This is more of a problem with U-Matic tapes with skew problems. The PiP handles errors more gracefully but it cuts off a few lines on the bottom of the screen, so you lose the head switching noise. I wonder if there's a firmware update for the TBC. Also the chroma output is pretty ordinary. If you view it on a vector scope there's a lot of clipping and phase noise. They're better than no TBC at all but there are better options out there, IMO.
I'm trying to captures my tapes to VHS using this Panasonic CCTV from 1984 that has Horizontal and Vertical hold knobs. I bought some B.N.C cables to see if that'll help me capture my footage with the Horizontal and Vertical Holds all distorted up on to another VCR with B.N.C cables? I have no idea but I use a Hauppauge Win-TV150 PCI card. And I love how it captures my tapes exactly like the way you'd see them off the camcorder, VCR or tube. :)
A security VCR to capture from is not a good idea ! one setting of those "knobs" will not fix it, analog video signals are sometimes faster or slower, (not stable in any direction)
The three companies manufacturing TBCs right now are Ensemble, Aja, and Blackmagic. AJAs and BMs rely on a digital source so they are incompatible for VHS captures. Ensembles in my view make great TBCs, but are made for a high end analog studio source (BetacamSP, Umatic) not VHS. VHS makes them fall flat on their face. The TBCs mentioned in my review were tailor made for VHS captures when they were sold to the market. No one currently manufactures a TBC optimized for VHS transfers and that's too bad, so the used market is anyones best bet.
@@BenneWill Why would the 'high end' TBCs not work for VHS? Ensemble even mentions VHS in their advertising. The Brighteye 3 and BE 75 do analog to digital conversion after TBC, and the BE 5 outputs an analog signal in case you wanted to use a different digital capture card (for TBC only). They also do their processing at a higher bit rate which would, in theory at least, make them superior to the older technology. The Brighteye 5 does TBC only, but unfortunately only inputs and outputs via composite. No Y/C (S-video). The 3 and 75 are both TBC and analog to digital converters and have both Y/C and composite. They will also do audio embedding, but you can get around that by simply going past the box with your audio. They all use BNC connectors, but adapters and adapter cables (RCA or S-video) are relatively easy to find. I have found that the vintage TBCs out there are mostly 'for parts only', really banged up, or extremely expensive for what they are. I went back and read old reviews of some of the vintage TBCs I can find in working condition, and they are often not favorable.
@@jefjaeger Can't share links here but you can read about the problems users face with VHS on numerous threads, one titled "Possible Mac capture options in 2018: Aja, Brighteye, Blackmagic?". The admins of DigitalFAQ have banned discussion on them in VHS forums. Don't think too highly of them. "As far as the Brighteye, source matters. A TBC is not a TBC, and TBC is a wide term that covers too many things. It was made for a studio setting/workflow, with higher end source. You'll have issues with VHS, and other consumer analog sources. It expects master-quality BetacamSP and similar. I wish you well with it, and you may get lucky in that your tapes cooperate with it. But I'd not bet money on it. For example, a post from here (cannot include link), and a few years back: (cannot include link) VHS capture with SDI issue. That sort of feedback has been consistent over the years. Ensembles own marketing materials were just BS. Blackmagic will admit to you that their devices are not intended for consumer analog, like VHS, and are intended for higher-end studio source. Those are essentially HD devices with a craptastic SD mode. (The one workaround, however, is if you upscale the SD to HD pre-capture, but that gets into buying more hardware, and complicating your workflow hardware chain. But it is doable.) It's a lot of headache to even attempt a non-DV capture on Mac, especially when quality Windows options are about $100 plus the computer. And if you need a computer, you can build something new for under $500, or scrap out existing used parts (and buy a few select items from eBay) in order to get it working. The most important factor is having a test bed of analog sources, especially many VHS tapes, where you know what the errors are. Then you see how each TBC reacts to those errors. You also have to insure that the test unit is fine, not just assume it is. That sort of sloppy unscientific method is why video forums often have "conflicting" info (because one person is just flat out wrong). Unless somebody has seen a lot of copies of hardware, it's not always an accurate assessment of the device model. When it comes to TBCs, I've used/tested hundreds of units. Not exaggerating here."
@@jefjaeger As far as TBCs go. The models in this video are the only models ever made for VHS. You can find those beat up "vintage" TBCs on the FleaBay, which were usually for professional newsrooms and beat to hell and going for real cheap. They are definitely not what you want. All of the TBCs seen here need refurbishing but can be recapped. The reviews you can read out on the ones I describe will range anywhere from absolutely terrible to the greatest thing in the world. A TBC's ability is most definitely dependent on the condition it's in. It's very true a setup like described would likely cost $3-4 grand and time restoring, but it is how you get the best results out of VHS. A proper TBC tailor made for a VHS transfer house will look incredibly better than DV converters.
@@jefjaeger Last point I will add is a great example of how good tape can look, is the new Letterman channel on TH-cam. Late Night W/ David Letterman episodes. NBC is using TBC 3000s to archive all of the studio tapes. It really looks fantastic and show off how nice tape can look and upscaled in high definition.
I’ve been trying lots of different equipment for digitizing my VHS tapes, and I’ve noticed with a lot of my tapes, the video comes out a tad shaky/jittery. It’s a minor thing, but at the same time, it kinda bugs me. Does TBC fix this issue?
What you see is "timing wiggle" as caused by "timing jitter". This is corrected with a line TBC. Not frame, but line. The better/best line TBC is found in many JVC S-VHS VCRs. A strong+crippled line TBC is in the Panasonic ES10/ES15, used in passthrough, but it may fail on tapes, especially retail tapes. Wiggle bothers most people, even if they claim to not notice. Perhaps at cell phone size, you won't notice. But viewed on a normal large HDTVs, it's simply unviewable, too distracting.
@@lordsmurf I forgot I left this comment here lol. Thank you for the tips. I’ve done some other research, and a Panasonic VCR is something I was considering looking into. Thanks again!
I'm thinking about getting an external TBC for my analogue setup. I'm not a professional, but I'm also not a complete newbie. Could you help me find one for a reasonable price? Thinking of expanding my setup to be more professional
I got a Big VooDoo for 100 dollars, dude! Did not test yet, though. Nice video - I really thank you! What's your opinion about the Matrox MXO2 Mini Max? I also have a Panasonic 1760 (those huge S-VHS pro VCRs) that is not "up to spec" on the VCR side but it has a TBC that works from the input to the output without the tape running - have you seen those and what's your opinion. Thanks!
I'm trying to put together a small commercial archival setup. The biggest question mark for me is trying to get a working TBC and it's so sketchy knowing how much half/non-working stuff is out there. It sounds like I'm gonna have to beef up on my refurbing skills.
Not at all although that can help. If you'd like a fully restored TBC, make an account on DigitalFAQ forum website. Then find the administrator Lord Smurf, and send him a private message, telling him you'd like a working TBC setup. You need a budget of at least $1500.
I bought a BigVoodoo TBC-10 a couple years ago for $50 on ebay. Unfortunately, the s-video out had a problem crushing black color. Not sure how to fix it tho.
Hi Benne GREAT video. Would you be open to taking paid consultation calls from someone deeply lost and discouraged in the process? I have a witches’ brew of VCRs, capture devices and just purchased a JVC hr-s9600u and preparing to digitize 300+ tapes and would happily pay for 30mins to an hour of your time for your advice on the “ideal” capture method based on the hardware I currently have and the time I am willing to spend to per tape. I’ve spent a substantial amount of money and time the past few years on hardwire like the Canopus firewire video converter, the I-O data dongle, consumer devices like the infamous Elgato video capture and the Clearclick Digital converter. This is not a professional archiving project, it’s more of a “as long as it looks better than the Elgato i’m happy” capture project lol. Any help and insight would be greatly appreciated and would happily venmo you.
??? I get great results from my VCR connected to my Panasonic Blu-ray recorder, don't even get cross colour. Also record stuff off TH-cam with great results.
@@IainDavies-z2lI've got the DMR-ES16... Canadian version of the ES15. Truthfully... only use it on the most difficult tapes. It drops frames internally, blows the whites and blacks out, and creates reddish streaks not there if just using my JVC HR-S7800U with it's own internal TBC. Unfortunately the JVC couldn't handle 2 tapes with top edge tearing... the ES16 fixed it up no problem. Many people in the community say it posterizes things. It's a last chance choice for difficult tapes, not everyday captures. A better option is a Panasonic WJ-AVE5 video mixer... they have TBCs as well, and doesn't mess with the image.
I have the DMR-ES16 (Canadian ES15). It drops frames internally, blows whites and blacks out, messes with the color, adds streaks, and most in the community say it posterizes the image. A video mixer like the WJ-AVE5 would be better. They also have TBCs. Edit: also, the DMR's only fix line timing... they don't fix vertical frame jumps. Only a full frame tbc can do that..
You mentioned that your BVTBC10 is an "early" model... How did you determine it is an early model, and why does that make a difference? Great Video BTW!
I'm going to give you an answer in two different comments. Here is the first. The later models cheapened in quality and have terrible ghosting and very noisy. If you come across a later model made by this company, it will be the worst TBC you have ever used. The early models are among the most transparent and clean ever made. @ 17:30 I go into a deeper explanation on the differences. If you're interested in buying an early model, you can find me on Facebook under the name Ben Kleschinsky, message me and I can give you a collectors email address who restores them.
Now to answer your question. I spoke to an industry insider to better answer your question. He told me the main tell is the performance, certain chip combinations (ie, must open unit to find out). It's not about serials, or fonts, or anything externally visible. For TBCs, firmware on-chip matters as much as the chips, usually due to how multiple chips interact on the board. Structurally, there are some board tells, though not conclusive. Key West wasn't a large producer, not like DataVideo or Cypress, and the biggest production was for bad units (especially BVTBC). Most of what you're going to find online is crap that gets resold from person to person.
@@BenneWill Thank you for the update. I have an opportunity to purchase a used BVTBC10 but I don't know if it's an early model and either does the seller. It is a consignment item so I am sceptical if this unit will work properly for VHS transfers. What is the serial number of your TBC? And is it possible to update any BVTBC10 to work for VHS capture?
@@bill53072 My serial # is 10TXXC2. That it not really a good indicator though. The early unit, now being about 15 years old, odds are it needs some attention to be put back in shape. Parts are hard to find. The seller I bought mine from refurbishes them for a living, and runs extensive testing to determine what he is selling. I'm at the point where I would rather spend two grand and guarantee it works, versus $500 and I end up tossing it in the rubbish bin. Been burned too many times. Most BV10s are garbage and don't work. Unless it's insanely low priced, I wouldn't take the risk personally. Especially since the seller doesn't know anything about it, it's history, it's condition, hans't run any tests ect. That's being totally honest with you.
@@BenneWill Thank you for the advice! I watched your video again and you mentioned that your next purchase is going to be a Framemeister. Are you going to use this for de-interlacing your captured videos and for upscaling to 1080p and/or 4K? I noticed that watching digitized VHS tapes on a modern 4k LED TV doesn't look nearly as good as when played on a older 40" LCD TV.
18:43 The “frame sticking issue” mentioned here is exactly what I am experiencing with the black AVT-8710 I’m borrowing from my friend. I wanted to try out his before getting one for myself. Is there a fix for this?
It's certainly worth mentioning the GTH Electronics ACE TBS/Standards Converters. They were built in the UK but sold worldwide. Like all TBCs they are hard to find today but do turn up on eBay and they are very reliable compared to other models. I did an in-depth discussion of these with the original manufacturer: th-cam.com/video/OdpxrchYmUA/w-d-xo.html
What is the benefit to having internal TBC in a camcorder? For instance, if I want to transfer Hi-8 tapes via firewire does having that internal TBC camcorder result in better quality vs a camcorder that doesn't have TBC?
Yes you would benefit from a line TBC built into camcorder when playing back, but keep in mind you won't get good results using a camcorder... depending on how much you care about squeezing the most out of your tapes.
@@BenneWill Thanks, Benny. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to afford the top of the line options, but I’m trying to land somewhere in the middle. I did a bit more research and it seems the best course of action is to go from an internal or line TBC to an external TBC followed by a capture card. Am I right about that?
@@MichaelBallif The best setup is a pro HI8 player. They can be found on eBay (avoid Sony) for like $600-1000. They were often used by pilots in planes. Reason being they have great stereo audio. Camcorder audio is not great. Then running the S-VID to a pass through DVD player like the ES10 ES15 that has line TBC, then running that signal to an external frame TBC, then out to your capture card. The entire setup would cost $2-3 grand. You can get reasonable results using a camcorder.
@@MichaelBallif Remember line TBC fixes edge distortion and makes the lines on HI8 tapes invisible. Frame TBC makes it possible for capture cards to record an analog signal without a DV converter. If you can avoid using a DV converter then you get a much better signal. Camcorders would use a DV converter obviously.
You should put those Hi8 tapes into a Digital8 camera or player, and use the Firewire connection to transfer it onto a computer (with Firewire) no TBC needed that way.
@@BenneWill Thanks for the response. I noticed that your unit has a beige enclosure and some have black. I wonder if that's any indicator? Similar to the green/black of the BVT.
@@shawnprzybilla6931 I spoke to an industry insider to better answer your question. He told me the main tell is the performance, certain chip combinations (ie, must open unit to find out). It's not about serials, or fonts, or anything externally visible. For TBCs, firmware on-chip matters as much as the chips, usually due to how multiple chips interact on the board. Structurally, there are some board tells, though not conclusive. Key West wasn't a large producer, not like DataVideo or Cypress, and the biggest production was for bad units (especially BVTBC). Most of what you're going to find online is crap that gets resold from person to person.
@@shawnprzybilla6931So in other words, the easiest way to tell if you have a good unit is to try using it and see how well it performs. It's either going to perform really well or very badly. On a side note, I recently bought a BV10 on eBay for like $100, and it turned out to be on a scale of 1 to 10, it was probably a 5 or 6 which is not the greatest but decent. It's definitely a gamble. The Datavideos are much less risky machines. Once they are restored they are guaranteed to work great and that goes for almost all of them.
would've been nice from you to demonstrate what those machines,you mention can do to a 35 year old vhs video.There are much cheaper ways to record and make a decent quality videos from them.How can you expect anybody,spending 1000's on something that is not illustrated anywhere,what it can do?
Unfortunately my equipment is not up and running yet, but a TBC setup will double your color contrast, and will double your sharpness in comparison to a DV converter setup.
@@BenneWill You can achieve the same just by recording them in 48O, fix them in a good quality editor like Davinci and upscale them in the same program and if you don't illegally get it,it still costs you about $400 and not 2-3000.
@@OIdiesCentral correct ! i have tried some scalers/converters instead of TBC's (analog : from composite, s-video, or component to HDMI) but luck is again a factor here, costs: under $150
@@OIdiesCentral Timing errors cannot be fixed in software. Once it gets baked into the capture ingest, it's there forever. No removal, no corrections. Additionally, "recording them in 48O" is technobabble. All NTSC analog video should be captured at x480 interlaced, you have no choice in the matter.
Many thanks for the advice. I have already spent a lot of money in equipment and time trying to do the transfer myself relying on what everyone recommends with poor grainy results. Time to go to a professional. Could you recommend a Legitimate service company to transfer my 100+ VHS family tapes that utilizes TBC?
Funny enough I am short of $500 for an upscaler I need to complete my recording setup to finish the studio. I laugh but if you are up to it, if you send me a PayPal payment I would be willing to scan all of your tapes free of charge and I will ship them back to you. I'm a broke college student with too much time on my hand. I have time to sit around all day and make captures. The pros are using DV converters and charging $20 a tape. I would ask that you send me just one tape at first though you were unhappy with, so I can take a look at it. Sometimes the tapes themselves were just recorded grainy. Let me know if you would be interested in doing something like that. You can search my name Ben Kleschinsky on Facebook and message me. Can't post my email on here because TH-cam doesn't allow external links.
Smooth Photo Scanning out of NJ uses a TBC setup. For 100+ tapes in bulk they charge $15 per tape. So that right there would be $1500. It looks like they capture in standard defintion though. I'm using a Framemeister to get high resolution results, because analog resolution is inherently different from digital noise. Not a lot of people are doing this, but I can point to a TH-cam video that shows just how incredible upscaling can do to a VHS. th-cam.com/video/ZC5Zr3NC2PY/w-d-xo.html
@@BenneWill i guess it's like they do on print work, enlarge, and then smooth out the printing texture, so you loose minimal on sharpness… my expience now is, capture outside of any pc/laptop, convert to hdmi, and record with hdmi recorder, method also depended on which OS you're on, i love(d) ProRes422LT to capture with,no loss with VHS resolution...
@@BenneWill Disadvantage is that you need to set/edit aspect ratio in post, caturing with HDMI dongle this can be done during capture, or even upscale, i still prefer my ES35V though the JVC i have does have a TBC, it still give me dropped frames with the BMD IS , the ES35V is just perfect for me that way, with BMD Analog (component) to SDI into the BMD Video Assist, (still need to correct AR after that though)
DigitalFAQ admin commented on this stating... "Video mixers always had weaker TBCs, and were only there to assist with the main function of the unit. Mixing, keying, etc. The TBCs are not to accept dirty sources (VHS), problem sources, copy protected, etc. Nor do they work that well, or at all, for that function. This gets even more complicated when it comes to versioning (production changes). There are some mixers that have frame, line+frame, line, and nothing at all. With the last entry (nothing) being most common. But even the non-nothing is weak, or has drawbacks. These vary wildly from line TBCs in S-VHS VCRs, or frame DataVideo/Cypress type TBCs specifically created for consumer sources. And primarily for digitization, not some other mixing/keying/etc function. These units can be interesting, useful at times. But these add to a workflow, not really a replacement for anything in a standard workflow (quality VCR with line TBC, quality frame TBC, quality capture card). At best, you can say "better than nothing" (aka "not that ugly", "doesn't suck", aka a non-compliment)."
So what do we learn of this video ? A TBC is no option for most people ! i see no value in the information of this video, other than: TBC ? don't try it..
@@BenneWill they cost thousands of dollars, because this is rare equipment, (and they're the ones that are holding them back), i know these people, and they're plain rude to newbees, their gospell is you can't do it without TBC,(is not true) clever, because they have the most profit of it, by selling...
@@BenneWill problem is you have to rely on the person, that such an old device is already recapped, if so the huge price for it, will scare people away, plus… LS said he won't help newbees anymore, this person is stuck in time, a windows pc isn't a great platform anymore for capture, now there are good HDMI recorders, for a reasonable price, compared to the old, rare and expensive devices, using composite degrades the signal, a good capture done over SDI, component, or HDMI, will even show details a CTR did not reveal, certain scalers, have also a TBC like function, but with a HDMI dongle the frame rate can be all over the place, but when re encoded with the correct framerate, this is corrected.
@@xavierzander4201 Hindsight 20/20, the majority of consumers wanting to digitize VHS tapes, are not going to want to spend the time and effort in obtaining the equipment I mentioned in this video. DigitalFAQ continues to be a good source for purchasing TBCs. With that being said, I think the majority of people have the mindset of digitizing, watching once, and putting it away. A DV converter in that case would be good enough. TBCs are still the best equipment that was ever made for VHS and it's unfortunate they stopped making them.
@@duncanmacleod2136 the advise is just not realistic for most people to just buy a TBC these TBC's are to rare, this advise comes only from the people who sell those TBC's and resell at those high asking prices is also not a realistic option, Lordsmurf gives only negative answers, to sell his stuff, and those negative answers are not hard to find in the two forums, Helping newbees becomes mostly a battle in those forums, and scares the actual people that want to be helped, a lot..most information is very old, about capture devices that are not available anymore. The TBC function of a JVC recorder is also overrated i experienced, best option stays a Panasonic DVD recorder, or combo recorder from Panasonic because of the VHS refresh feature that comes with the DIGA ones, to use as passthrough, Most stand alone TBC's weren't even made for the "quality" of VHS video. If there's a HDMI output available that would also be fine, only you need still a passthrough device to strip the HDCP from that because of it being a consumer device, converting from a DIGA device you can use also a BlackMagic Design Analog to SDI converter and record that, with a SDI PCIe card or harware recorder, with such a "chain" video is handled correctly, and even cheaper than old collector item equipment, not using a computer for capturing saves you from using legacy computer hardware/software
@@vindat2012 oh, i see. So you won't be using it with VHS recorded in Brazilian VCRs then? Or these TBCs have different settings for the different color modes (NTSC, PAL, PAL-M, SECAM).
@@lordvega3112 Let me tell you exactly why I'm interested in a TBC. I work converting video tape format to digital file, such as VHS, Sony 8 mm, 8mm digital, Betamax, etc. so some tapes I receive have signal fluctuations and I believe that a controlled TBC could minimize this interference, so I will have better quality in my final video, which I then take to Adobe Premieri to adjust the audio, color, and finally improve the quality of the final product. The most of the tapes I receive are in NTSC USA and PAL-M, very little, but In this case I wouldn't use the TBC, or I could even use a Tanscorder PAL to NT...that's it! Tanks
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Read through this VCR and TBC buying guide: www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/1567-vcr-buying-guide.html
Hey Benny
Is there a way to personally reach out to you ?? I so need some dumbed down help asap !! Appreciate any help to complete my huge family project… was diagnosed with cancer a month ago and so need. Help to get this done… thank you !!
@@toddpa-c3826 Hi. You can email me at benklesc@aol.com
The Panasonic NV-HD Recorders from the forum only have a CVBS output and do not play S-VHS at full resolution.
Bro are you LordSmurf?
That's classified :)
lmao
@@BenneWill LS would not use a frame-meister
"Lord Smurf" is only out to sell his expensive stuff. He talks down everything else.
The stuff he talks down about other than decode is mostly a noisy composite signal getting captured straight to a highly compressed codec by some newer POS card that is usually meant for gaming.
Nevermind the comments about VCR, what's with the pink bedroom? :D
Excellent, informative video.
Many thanks, and keep up the good work 😊
What about an upscaler with a TBC built in? what is the Retrotink 4K's TBC like?
I think the best option here is the TBC-100. It's a PCI card, it was small, and smaller transistors meaning less points of failure in a long run.
I'm in full agreement. Rare as a unicorn but the easiest to use. It just has no proc controls, but if you can find one snatch it up while you still can. It's too bad they stopped production on them.
do you have a link to where I can buy one of these?
@@deadbeats4417 If it pops up on Digital FAQ Marketplace or eBay, snag it fast.
I was unhappy with the EasyCap analogue to digital USB converters. I even tried the mini upscaler to HDMI, HDMI to USB and wasn't happy with that. Essentially, all of these did their own deinterlacing that stunk - badly. I wanted to capture the video interlaced and find a way to deinterlace it myself. I ended up picking up a Sony DVMC-DA2 analogue to DV converter. This outputs a DV standard through FireWire. It was an astounding improvement in quality. Using virtualDub and the MSU deinterlacer, I was able to produce 59.94 FPS progressive scan versions that looked great. I still want a TBC though, to add even more quality. Thanks for teh informative video.
A converter that scales to an AR 16:9 has a TBC like function, you have to crop or transform in the software you're capturing with, or do that in post. with a DV converter you get (too) large files, which can't be handled during capturing, if you're on a old system.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t DV over FireWire introduce digital compression of the video?
@@schefre35 It does, DVCPro at 50mbps is just cutting it for acceptable refrance, ware as V210 uncompressed capture then FFV1 lossless compression is standard.
Though this has its merits for Video8/Hi8 metadata via Digital8 camcorder but not for digitisation of the video signal that now has been surpassed by FM RF capture and software decoding with vhs-decode.
@@schefre35 DV compresses a color profile from 4:2:2 to 4:1:1. You lose half of your color information. The TBCs in this video convert an uncompressed 4:2:2 color profile.
@@TheRealHarrypm I recommend capturing Hi8 tapes on a pro deck and not a camcorder, because camcorders don't playback stereo 2-track uncompressed PCM audio and usually sound terrible.
Your expertise is greatly appreciated
When you eventually offer archive services let me know. I don’t trust any of the big conversion houses to do it right.
Last peice of the puzzle coming Fall 2022 and the studio will be complete. Lots of work getting off the ground but in the end it will be worth it for high quality transfers.
Well... looks like my new goal is Fall 2024. That's how it goes. ;-)
@@BenneWill LOL. Still waiting on it. Just comment here when you do and I'll put the order in.
Unrelated but there is a logo that literally has the title “TBC” and I find this cool!
Cheaper alternatives are the Pansonic ES10/15/16 DVD Players which have built in Semi- TBC obviously isn't the same as TBC-1000 but. If your not archiveing some rare tape then please do not worry about buying fancy thousand dollar S-VHS decks thats overkill for most people and if you don't have S-VHS tapes then theres litterally no point other then the TBC's they have but thats what the TBC-1000 or DVD recorder is for. VHS will always look bad to an extent its VHS afterall. I personally have a Zenith VCR from the 80s-90s made in Japan has 4 video heads and HIFI and is good quality all for the price of 40 bucks Canadian and then a Pansonic ES16 for some Semi-TBC and it looks great. Didn't need to spend 1000 dollars.
Hi, I would argue that on top of AG1980 (NV-FS200) you can use NV-HS1000. This VCR can also run TBC and 3D DNR separately. And it is much more recent.
NV-FS200 and FS88 were maybe the worst VTRs that Panasonic never did.
VHS-Decode is the way forward the methods of outdated and old are dying and pool old Kevin (LordSmurf) hates that the TBC market bubble as poped.
The products I'm showcasing here are frame correction TBCs. VHS-Decode is line correction. It does not do the same.
@@BenneWill No its not, its whole signal correction its never been "line correction" as its using the same code from ld-decode past the demodulation phase, the .tbc format has a entirely time base corrected 4fsc frame.
The only tool in the family that does not time base correct is HiFi-Decode currently.
@@TheRealHarrypm Before I reply to this... just want to confirm we are speaking about the same terminology. When I use the word TBC, I am referring to the conversion of an analog video signal to a digital video signal.
@@BenneWill Okay...
For context the "no its not" I was refuring to vhs-decode which uses the whole FM RF signal of a captured tape.
I think you need to update your lexicon then, time base correction is the re-timing and stablising of analouge signal information, anything past that feature is just standard signal manipulation within the context of video handling.
Digitisation is taking an analouge value to a digital one, what your refering to with "TBCs" broadly with the terminology your using is just digital processing which goes though an full AD / DA stage with processing in the middle, excluding ADV chips witch are multi-roll ICs.
When the term digistiation is used in well a proper manner, it means its one way AD to file though normally sampled to an RGB/YUV stream from a baseband signal, in the case of the decode projects we just take the RAW FM RF signal off test points and capture that for tapes a single stage digistation skipping all but the tracking/pre-amplificaiton hardware and then with a file on hand we run that though vhs-decode witch is a multi stage de-modualtion / filtering / time base correction then dropout correction etc then we have a baseband or composite/Y+C file set on hand in the ".tbc" format witch is the full analouge signal frame.
Fun fact about the "TBC format" is its 4fsc you can pipe that back to a DA or Digital to Analouge converter (if it supports 1vpp CVBS etc) and play back the decoded signal to standard equipment.
After writing over 70 pages for the wiki I do recommend reading the vhs-decode wiki lol as it shows examples of the suit in use and of decoded data even a true signal errors page with the full signal frame used for refrance.
Quite frankly anyone who links DigitalFAQ is just helping keep inflation up on well hardware that is outdated for even its intended use, the projects provide an direct and affordable hardware agnostic system that well allows anyone to do archival level trasfers of mediums from VHS to SMTPE 1" Type-C master reels.
LS also has been spewing absoulute nonsence about the projects ever since they beat out ADV chips and the TBC-1000 back in 2020 lmao
@@TheRealHarrypm Smurf explained to me that VHS-Decode is post-capture line TBC for restoration when sources are gone. If you have the original tapes, recapture with a proper workflow. It does not convert an analog source for digital capturing. Any faults once digitized by say a DV converter are baked in, and software can only manipulate so much. It's superior to do edits in analog before converting to digital.
All hail Lord Smurf
in his bubble … :)
Nobody has been able to communicate exactly which of the Big Voodoos are "good ones," only that it's "early production run models." Okay, that's vague af. Is there a serial number range? How are you even sure of your purchase? There is so much random information out there and even though people talk about it as if they have a master's degree on the subject, there isn't actually any specificity about the equipment. I don't know... I'm sure some of these are fine and whatnot, but like you said... the gear is 25+ years old at this point. I'm not sure I trust any of it, certainly not enough to spend $5,000 on a "chance."
As I replied on some other comments. The main tell is the performance, certain chip combinations (ie, must open unit to find out). It's not about serials, or fonts, or anything externally visible. For TBCs, firmware on-chip matters as much as the chips, usually due to how multiple chips interact on the board. Structurally, there are some board tells, though not conclusive. Key West wasn't a large producer, not like DataVideo or Cypress, and the biggest production was for bad units (especially BVTBC). Most of what you're going to find online is junk that gets resold from person to person. The really only way to tell is to buy one, and test the performance. The reason good ones go for so much is because they are rare. DigitalFAQ guarantees testing before selling.
Most people wouldn’t know how to test them if they had them. You would have to have some kind of test tape. Something with timebase errors to give it a test. it’s tough to test something and say this is working when that’s the only one you’ve ever seen. No one you know owns one. What standard is expected? I would just buy that from digitalfaq or not get it at all because I have no clue how to tell if it’s a desired generation.
Don't go with easy cap your videos will look and sound crap . The Roland vr-5 works great for pro work in my business but out of the price range of the general person. Adobe premiere elements is great for adjusting the brightness , contrast, hue and saturation on videos.
Thank you for this I needed a good guide on time base correctors for digitizing my tapes
*By the way... This channel is not primarily going to be a VHS channel. My expertice is working on film archives. I'm not an expert on VHS although know some facts. Most of my uploads are going to consist of film restoration and reel to reel audio.
Despite this fact I'll ask you if you know VHS-Decode project - basicaly a software TBC that can be improved at any time once you record (sample) tape signal to the PC.
Warning, this is a nerdy level stuff.
@@Zcooger Oh no. You've sent me down another rabbit hole. :)
@@Zcooger You seem to have a lot of experience with it. This is my unpopular opinion. I did some research and here is what I can gather. RF capture and TBCs are two separate things. I do know there are software TBCs for line correction, however nothing that comes close to physical hardware in SVHS decks. Software does continue to improve but works better on PAL. Software TBCs cannot recreate frame TBC and that is something entirely different. RF capture on the other hand is said to add increased sharpness to your capture. This is more or less a hack for getting better picture out of a cheap VCR to avoid buying expensive SVHS decks. It still requires frame and line corrections whether that be software or an external TBC.
@@Zcooger I spoke with one of the VHS gurus tonight in conversation, and our friend Kevin said this in a rather blunt tone as he always does...
"As of now, I'd be willing to say that software TBCs, for this clip, has the power of ... hmm ... not an ES10/15, at least as good as a weak ES20/ES25, maybe a choking JVC or Panasonic, much better than ADVC-300 super-weak. That's a compliment! (ES10/15 are really bad compared to SVHS decks)
The signal will require timing correction, period. Both frame and line, perhaps field. But trying to recreate TBC in software has not worked to date, and may never work. So hardware is likely still going to be required. But it'll have to be a new kind of TBC, not the standard A>D>A.
This project has a lot of wild claims. And most of the claims come from people not developing it, nor understanding the fundamentals of digital video ingest. (Upscaling, Topaz, and "AI" are the same way. Lots of claims, most are half truths or nonsense.)
VHS-Decode is not viable for actual VHS capturing yet, especially not NTSC. Anybody doing it currently will have rough results, worse than a standard workflow (using quality suggested gear). I dismiss a lot of these claims outright, because I've seen it over and over again. "VCD quality is great", etc etc. Functional, but not quality."
@@BenneWill Yep, a lot ot similar opinions are convincing me even more to go the modern software way. Thanks for the reply!
Something else you should mention... although the hardware can get expensive, as rare as these devices are, somebody else will buy it as soon as you put it back into the market. Easily.
My JVC HR-S7800U's line TBC seems to add a yellowish hue when enabled. Is that caps, or is that supposed to be normal? It's not a D65 white point.. I don't think.
I would say filed TBC is a frame TBC because analog is interlaced, However not many of them left, They were the very first generation of frame TBC back when memory is very small.
@@duncanmacleod2136 I don't know, It is not like they are in stores, These are obsolete devices they cost whatever the seller feels like charging for it.
For $2500 I could have sold you two BE75 and some extra cash to buy nice cables, And the quality as you can see from my channel far excedes any of the analog TBC's out there.
From my understanding, the Brighteyes are component only. No S-Vid which means you can't use SVHS decks, and the TBC from reviewers online is not as powerful as some of the others I have mentioned. Definitely better than going the DV route though.
@@BenneWill No Sir, that is incorrect, Y-C is exactly S-Video but instead of consumer S-Video socket it uses two BNC connectors for each signal, a passive cable BNC to S-Video is used to connect to consumer appliances with S-Video. How do you think I'm capturing VHS tapes to my channel with a S-VHS machine?
Ensemble Designs BrightEye 75, CVBS/YC/YUV Analog (NTSC/PAL) to SDI Converter with Analog Audio Embedder. Not available in Europe. My opinion😉
36:16 "I would recommend getting a TBC if you really care about the quality of tapes you are archiving. If you don't, and you are only going to look at them once... there is really no need to spend this kind of money"
Just had a jvc hr s7800u delivered today. Looking forward to having better control than the dmr es-10 I have been using.
do TBC settings require the remote? i have a S-7800U without a remote.
@@mylovesongs2429 no remote needed. Tbc on/off is located towards the bottom left of the unit.
@@slbvideoarchive grazie! Is the TBC in the 7800U a decent one? Do other JVC S-VHS units have better ones, or do the all work the same in the JVC's? on eBay, a few people were selling the 9900U or 9500U or something for a huge amount. One person wanted $1,400. This was a month or so ago. Wonder why that model was so expensive compared to the other JVC S-VHS units. wondering if the TBC is better.
@@mylovesongs2429 The first VCR you mentioned went by several names. MV45/M50, V101, V10, 7800/7900 which are all the same model. There were two lower-end models made by JVC with plastic parts and that was the 7800/7900 and 9800/9900 which were really fancier versions of the low end 5800U DigiPure. The 7500/7600 and 9500/9600 were JVCs top of the line consumer decks with dynamic drums and better built components. The 7800 (which I own) is a better machine than the 9800/9900, because it does not have a cheaply made dynamic drum, which is worse than having no dynamic drum at all. To further answer your question, the benefits of dynamic drums... you won't see a big difference and they are a bitch when they stop working. Only on some really bad tapes, when the TBC is stressed, will the extra RAM really make a visual difference. That happens only in extreme cases. If you go with the 7800 you are really not making a bad choice.
The algorithm brought me here. I've got a Key West Big Voodoo TBC and a PiP, had them for years. I would've spent less than $150 for both. My major issue with my TBC is if there's an error with the vertical sync coming off-tape, the whole picture becomes garbled. This is more of a problem with U-Matic tapes with skew problems. The PiP handles errors more gracefully but it cuts off a few lines on the bottom of the screen, so you lose the head switching noise. I wonder if there's a firmware update for the TBC. Also the chroma output is pretty ordinary. If you view it on a vector scope there's a lot of clipping and phase noise. They're better than no TBC at all but there are better options out there, IMO.
From my understanding, BigVoodoo TBCs range from extremely lousy to excellent. Perhaps you have a defective model?
Brilliantly explained, thank you.
I'm trying to captures my tapes to VHS using this Panasonic CCTV from 1984 that has Horizontal and Vertical hold knobs.
I bought some B.N.C cables to see if that'll help me capture my footage with the Horizontal and Vertical Holds all distorted up on to another VCR with B.N.C cables?
I have no idea but I use a Hauppauge Win-TV150 PCI card. And I love how it captures my tapes exactly like the way you'd see them off the camcorder, VCR or tube. :)
A security VCR to capture from is not a good idea ! one setting of those "knobs" will not fix it, analog video signals are sometimes faster or slower, (not stable in any direction)
Ensemble Designs for TBC. Brighteye 3, 5, and 75. Professional grade, still being manufactured, and more affordable.
The three companies manufacturing TBCs right now are Ensemble, Aja, and Blackmagic. AJAs and BMs rely on a digital source so they are incompatible for VHS captures. Ensembles in my view make great TBCs, but are made for a high end analog studio source (BetacamSP, Umatic) not VHS. VHS makes them fall flat on their face. The TBCs mentioned in my review were tailor made for VHS captures when they were sold to the market. No one currently manufactures a TBC optimized for VHS transfers and that's too bad, so the used market is anyones best bet.
@@BenneWill Why would the 'high end' TBCs not work for VHS? Ensemble even mentions VHS in their advertising. The Brighteye 3 and BE 75 do analog to digital conversion after TBC, and the BE 5 outputs an analog signal in case you wanted to use a different digital capture card (for TBC only). They also do their processing at a higher bit rate which would, in theory at least, make them superior to the older technology. The Brighteye 5 does TBC only, but unfortunately only inputs and outputs via composite. No Y/C (S-video). The 3 and 75 are both TBC and analog to digital converters and have both Y/C and composite. They will also do audio embedding, but you can get around that by simply going past the box with your audio. They all use BNC connectors, but adapters and adapter cables (RCA or S-video) are relatively easy to find. I have found that the vintage TBCs out there are mostly 'for parts only', really banged up, or extremely expensive for what they are. I went back and read old reviews of some of the vintage TBCs I can find in working condition, and they are often not favorable.
@@jefjaeger Can't share links here but you can read about the problems users face with VHS on numerous threads, one titled "Possible Mac capture options in 2018: Aja, Brighteye, Blackmagic?". The admins of DigitalFAQ have banned discussion on them in VHS forums. Don't think too highly of them.
"As far as the Brighteye, source matters. A TBC is not a TBC, and TBC is a wide term that covers too many things. It was made for a studio setting/workflow, with higher end source. You'll have issues with VHS, and other consumer analog sources. It expects master-quality BetacamSP and similar. I wish you well with it, and you may get lucky in that your tapes cooperate with it. But I'd not bet money on it. For example, a post from here (cannot include link), and a few years back: (cannot include link) VHS capture with SDI issue. That sort of feedback has been consistent over the years. Ensembles own marketing materials were just BS.
Blackmagic will admit to you that their devices are not intended for consumer analog, like VHS, and are intended for higher-end studio source. Those are essentially HD devices with a craptastic SD mode. (The one workaround, however, is if you upscale the SD to HD pre-capture, but that gets into buying more hardware, and complicating your workflow hardware chain. But it is doable.) It's a lot of headache to even attempt a non-DV capture on Mac, especially when quality Windows options are about $100 plus the computer. And if you need a computer, you can build something new for under $500, or scrap out existing used parts (and buy a few select items from eBay) in order to get it working.
The most important factor is having a test bed of analog sources, especially many VHS tapes, where you know what the errors are. Then you see how each TBC reacts to those errors. You also have to insure that the test unit is fine, not just assume it is. That sort of sloppy unscientific method is why video forums often have "conflicting" info (because one person is just flat out wrong). Unless somebody has seen a lot of copies of hardware, it's not always an accurate assessment of the device model. When it comes to TBCs, I've used/tested hundreds of units. Not exaggerating here."
@@jefjaeger As far as TBCs go. The models in this video are the only models ever made for VHS. You can find those beat up "vintage" TBCs on the FleaBay, which were usually for professional newsrooms and beat to hell and going for real cheap. They are definitely not what you want. All of the TBCs seen here need refurbishing but can be recapped. The reviews you can read out on the ones I describe will range anywhere from absolutely terrible to the greatest thing in the world. A TBC's ability is most definitely dependent on the condition it's in. It's very true a setup like described would likely cost $3-4 grand and time restoring, but it is how you get the best results out of VHS. A proper TBC tailor made for a VHS transfer house will look incredibly better than DV converters.
@@jefjaeger Last point I will add is a great example of how good tape can look, is the new Letterman channel on TH-cam. Late Night W/ David Letterman episodes. NBC is using TBC 3000s to archive all of the studio tapes. It really looks fantastic and show off how nice tape can look and upscaled in high definition.
I’ve been trying lots of different equipment for digitizing my VHS tapes, and I’ve noticed with a lot of my tapes, the video comes out a tad shaky/jittery. It’s a minor thing, but at the same time, it kinda bugs me. Does TBC fix this issue?
What you see is "timing wiggle" as caused by "timing jitter". This is corrected with a line TBC. Not frame, but line. The better/best line TBC is found in many JVC S-VHS VCRs. A strong+crippled line TBC is in the Panasonic ES10/ES15, used in passthrough, but it may fail on tapes, especially retail tapes. Wiggle bothers most people, even if they claim to not notice. Perhaps at cell phone size, you won't notice. But viewed on a normal large HDTVs, it's simply unviewable, too distracting.
@@lordsmurf I forgot I left this comment here lol. Thank you for the tips. I’ve done some other research, and a Panasonic VCR is something I was considering looking into. Thanks again!
I'm thinking about getting an external TBC for my analogue setup. I'm not a professional, but I'm also not a complete newbie. Could you help me find one for a reasonable price?
Thinking of expanding my setup to be more professional
Good overview.
Ive only got 1 tape i want to digitise. Gonna have to pay someone else to do i think.
Got another subscriber 👍
Benny, you ever think about using a Panasonic switcher with built-in TBC for transferring video?
Are you talking about a video mixer? I just ordered a WJ-AVE5 as I've been reading it corrects jittery tapes... I'm hoping it'll replace my DMR-ES16.
I got a Big VooDoo for 100 dollars, dude! Did not test yet, though. Nice video - I really thank you! What's your opinion about the Matrox MXO2 Mini Max? I also have a Panasonic 1760 (those huge S-VHS pro VCRs) that is not "up to spec" on the VCR side but it has a TBC that works from the input to the output without the tape running - have you seen those and what's your opinion. Thanks!
Where did you get your big voodoo??
I'm trying to put together a small commercial archival setup. The biggest question mark for me is trying to get a working TBC and it's so sketchy knowing how much half/non-working stuff is out there. It sounds like I'm gonna have to beef up on my refurbing skills.
Not at all although that can help. If you'd like a fully restored TBC, make an account on DigitalFAQ forum website. Then find the administrator Lord Smurf, and send him a private message, telling him you'd like a working TBC setup. You need a budget of at least $1500.
I bought a BigVoodoo TBC-10 a couple years ago for $50 on ebay. Unfortunately, the s-video out had a problem crushing black color. Not sure how to fix it tho.
😂
This is why I don't bother with TBC. It's just too much to consider.
Hi Benne GREAT video. Would you be open to taking paid consultation calls from someone deeply lost and discouraged in the process? I have a witches’ brew of VCRs, capture devices and just purchased a JVC hr-s9600u and preparing to digitize 300+ tapes and would happily pay for 30mins to an hour of your time for your advice on the “ideal” capture method based on the hardware I currently have and the time I am willing to spend to per tape. I’ve spent a substantial amount of money and time the past few years on hardwire like the Canopus firewire video converter, the I-O data dongle, consumer devices like the infamous Elgato video capture and the Clearclick Digital converter. This is not a professional archiving project, it’s more of a “as long as it looks better than the Elgato i’m happy” capture project lol. Any help and insight would be greatly appreciated and would happily venmo you.
Hi. I have no way to give you my phone on here. TH-cam does not allow phone numbers in comment section.
@@cuckoohaus Email bennewillboston@aol.com
Just connect your VCR to a DVD/BLU RAY recorder and job done. It doesn't take 40 minutes to explain that.
Does not work. ES10/E15 produces bad results.
??? I get great results from my VCR connected to my Panasonic Blu-ray recorder, don't even get cross colour. Also record stuff off TH-cam with great results.
@@IainDavies-z2lI've got the DMR-ES16... Canadian version of the ES15. Truthfully... only use it on the most difficult tapes. It drops frames internally, blows the whites and blacks out, and creates reddish streaks not there if just using my JVC HR-S7800U with it's own internal TBC. Unfortunately the JVC couldn't handle 2 tapes with top edge tearing... the ES16 fixed it up no problem. Many people in the community say it posterizes things. It's a last chance choice for difficult tapes, not everyday captures. A better option is a Panasonic WJ-AVE5 video mixer... they have TBCs as well, and doesn't mess with the image.
I have the DMR-ES16 (Canadian ES15). It drops frames internally, blows whites and blacks out, messes with the color, adds streaks, and most in the community say it posterizes the image. A video mixer like the WJ-AVE5 would be better. They also have TBCs. Edit: also, the DMR's only fix line timing... they don't fix vertical frame jumps. Only a full frame tbc can do that..
@@BenneWill The European versions have different input ICs. The 10 has a TBC/Synchronizer IC, the 15 only has an input switch IC with "TBC".
Finding a properly functioning TBC in 2024 is pure luck.
What are your thoughts on Ensemble Design Bright eye TBC such as the Bright eye 3 and 75?
Bright Eyes don't work for VHS
You mentioned that your BVTBC10 is an "early" model... How did you determine it is an early model, and why does that make a difference? Great Video BTW!
I'm going to give you an answer in two different comments. Here is the first. The later models cheapened in quality and have terrible ghosting and very noisy. If you come across a later model made by this company, it will be the worst TBC you have ever used. The early models are among the most transparent and clean ever made. @ 17:30 I go into a deeper explanation on the differences. If you're interested in buying an early model, you can find me on Facebook under the name Ben Kleschinsky, message me and I can give you a collectors email address who restores them.
Now to answer your question. I spoke to an industry insider to better answer your question. He told me the main tell is the performance, certain chip combinations (ie, must open unit to find out). It's not about serials, or fonts, or anything externally visible. For TBCs, firmware on-chip matters as much as the chips, usually due to how multiple chips interact on the board. Structurally, there are some board tells, though not conclusive. Key West wasn't a large producer, not like DataVideo or Cypress, and the biggest production was for bad units (especially BVTBC). Most of what you're going to find online is crap that gets resold from person to person.
@@BenneWill Thank you for the update. I have an opportunity to purchase a used BVTBC10 but I don't know if it's an early model and either does the seller. It is a consignment item so I am sceptical if this unit will work properly for VHS transfers. What is the serial number of your TBC? And is it possible to update any BVTBC10 to work for VHS capture?
@@bill53072 My serial # is 10TXXC2. That it not really a good indicator though. The early unit, now being about 15 years old, odds are it needs some attention to be put back in shape. Parts are hard to find. The seller I bought mine from refurbishes them for a living, and runs extensive testing to determine what he is selling. I'm at the point where I would rather spend two grand and guarantee it works, versus $500 and I end up tossing it in the rubbish bin. Been burned too many times. Most BV10s are garbage and don't work. Unless it's insanely low priced, I wouldn't take the risk personally. Especially since the seller doesn't know anything about it, it's history, it's condition, hans't run any tests ect. That's being totally honest with you.
@@BenneWill Thank you for the advice!
I watched your video again and you mentioned that your next purchase is going to be a Framemeister. Are you going to use this for de-interlacing your captured videos and for upscaling to 1080p and/or 4K? I noticed that watching digitized VHS tapes on a modern 4k LED TV doesn't look nearly as good as when played on a older 40" LCD TV.
Have you posted any sample videos you created using with this TBC?
I ran out of money and have not been able to finish the setup yet. Maybe next year.
18:43 The “frame sticking issue” mentioned here is exactly what I am experiencing with the black AVT-8710 I’m borrowing from my friend. I wanted to try out his before getting one for myself. Is there a fix for this?
That’s a lot of pillows on that bed
Hey I know you ;-)
~ Ben Kleschinsky
Original broadcast Carson era tonight shows?
TBCs...discontinued. Framemeister...discontinued. :(
It's certainly worth mentioning the GTH Electronics ACE TBS/Standards Converters. They were built in the UK but sold worldwide. Like all TBCs they are hard to find today but do turn up on eBay and they are very reliable compared to other models. I did an in-depth discussion of these with the original manufacturer:
th-cam.com/video/OdpxrchYmUA/w-d-xo.html
Colin you are one of the channels I turn to all of the time for advice. You do great work!
but i guess these are also $1000 priced or more… ? (i did see your video)
@@BenneWill while disapproving GTH in an other post ?
@@xavierzander4201Personally, I haven't read good things about the GTH, but then again I've never used it.
@@BenneWill The output works with a fixed quartz frequency. Without a studio recorder with sync in...😉
What is the benefit to having internal TBC in a camcorder? For instance, if I want to transfer Hi-8 tapes via firewire does having that internal TBC camcorder result in better quality vs a camcorder that doesn't have TBC?
Yes you would benefit from a line TBC built into camcorder when playing back, but keep in mind you won't get good results using a camcorder... depending on how much you care about squeezing the most out of your tapes.
@@BenneWill Thanks, Benny. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to afford the top of the line options, but I’m trying to land somewhere in the middle. I did a bit more research and it seems the best course of action is to go from an internal or line TBC to an external TBC followed by a capture card. Am I right about that?
@@MichaelBallif The best setup is a pro HI8 player. They can be found on eBay (avoid Sony) for like $600-1000. They were often used by pilots in planes. Reason being they have great stereo audio. Camcorder audio is not great. Then running the S-VID to a pass through DVD player like the ES10 ES15 that has line TBC, then running that signal to an external frame TBC, then out to your capture card. The entire setup would cost $2-3 grand. You can get reasonable results using a camcorder.
@@MichaelBallif Remember line TBC fixes edge distortion and makes the lines on HI8 tapes invisible. Frame TBC makes it possible for capture cards to record an analog signal without a DV converter. If you can avoid using a DV converter then you get a much better signal. Camcorders would use a DV converter obviously.
You should put those Hi8 tapes into a Digital8 camera or player, and use the Firewire connection to transfer it onto a computer (with Firewire) no TBC needed that way.
Thanks so much for the details. How do you know if the bigvoodoo is an early model VS late model?
It involves opening up the unit and examining the components. Not an easy task.
@@BenneWill Thanks for the response. I noticed that your unit has a beige enclosure and some have black. I wonder if that's any indicator? Similar to the green/black of the BVT.
@@shawnprzybilla6931 I spoke to an industry insider to better answer your question. He told me the main tell is the performance, certain chip combinations (ie, must open unit to find out). It's not about serials, or fonts, or anything externally visible. For TBCs, firmware on-chip matters as much as the chips, usually due to how multiple chips interact on the board. Structurally, there are some board tells, though not conclusive. Key West wasn't a large producer, not like DataVideo or Cypress, and the biggest production was for bad units (especially BVTBC). Most of what you're going to find online is crap that gets resold from person to person.
@@BenneWill Great advice and thank you for the follow up!
@@shawnprzybilla6931So in other words, the easiest way to tell if you have a good unit is to try using it and see how well it performs. It's either going to perform really well or very badly. On a side note, I recently bought a BV10 on eBay for like $100, and it turned out to be on a scale of 1 to 10, it was probably a 5 or 6 which is not the greatest but decent. It's definitely a gamble. The Datavideos are much less risky machines. Once they are restored they are guaranteed to work great and that goes for almost all of them.
would've been nice from you to demonstrate what those machines,you mention can do to a 35 year old vhs video.There are much cheaper ways to record and make a decent quality videos from them.How can you expect anybody,spending 1000's on something that is not illustrated anywhere,what it can do?
29:00
Unfortunately my equipment is not up and running yet, but a TBC setup will double your color contrast, and will double your sharpness in comparison to a DV converter setup.
@@BenneWill You can achieve the same just by recording them in 48O, fix them in a good quality editor like Davinci and upscale them in the same program and if you don't illegally get it,it still costs you about $400 and not 2-3000.
@@OIdiesCentral correct ! i have tried some scalers/converters instead of TBC's (analog : from composite, s-video, or component to HDMI) but luck is again a factor here, costs: under $150
@@OIdiesCentral Timing errors cannot be fixed in software. Once it gets baked into the capture ingest, it's there forever. No removal, no corrections. Additionally, "recording them in 48O" is technobabble. All NTSC analog video should be captured at x480 interlaced, you have no choice in the matter.
Many thanks for the advice. I have already spent a lot of money in equipment and time trying to do the transfer myself relying on what everyone recommends with poor grainy results.
Time to go to a professional. Could you recommend a Legitimate service company to transfer my 100+ VHS family tapes that utilizes TBC?
Funny enough I am short of $500 for an upscaler I need to complete my recording setup to finish the studio. I laugh but if you are up to it, if you send me a PayPal payment I would be willing to scan all of your tapes free of charge and I will ship them back to you. I'm a broke college student with too much time on my hand. I have time to sit around all day and make captures. The pros are using DV converters and charging $20 a tape. I would ask that you send me just one tape at first though you were unhappy with, so I can take a look at it. Sometimes the tapes themselves were just recorded grainy. Let me know if you would be interested in doing something like that. You can search my name Ben Kleschinsky on Facebook and message me. Can't post my email on here because TH-cam doesn't allow external links.
Smooth Photo Scanning out of NJ uses a TBC setup. For 100+ tapes in bulk they charge $15 per tape. So that right there would be $1500. It looks like they capture in standard defintion though. I'm using a Framemeister to get high resolution results, because analog resolution is inherently different from digital noise. Not a lot of people are doing this, but I can point to a TH-cam video that shows just how incredible upscaling can do to a VHS. th-cam.com/video/ZC5Zr3NC2PY/w-d-xo.html
@@BenneWill i guess it's like they do on print work, enlarge, and then smooth out the printing texture, so you loose minimal on sharpness… my expience now is, capture outside of any pc/laptop, convert to hdmi, and record with hdmi recorder, method also depended on which OS you're on, i love(d) ProRes422LT to capture with,no loss with VHS resolution...
@@xavierzander4201 Yuup. I have been experimenting with using the Atomos Ninja. I prefer external recorders now.
@@BenneWill Disadvantage is that you need to set/edit aspect ratio in post, caturing with HDMI dongle this can be done during capture, or even upscale, i still prefer my ES35V though the JVC i have does have a TBC, it still give me dropped frames with the BMD IS , the ES35V is just perfect for me that way, with BMD Analog (component) to SDI into the BMD Video Assist, (still need to correct AR after that though)
The best TBC is Panasonic video mixer for 5€
DigitalFAQ admin commented on this stating... "Video mixers always had weaker TBCs, and were only there to assist with the main function of the unit. Mixing, keying, etc. The TBCs are not to accept dirty sources (VHS), problem sources, copy protected, etc. Nor do they work that well, or at all, for that function.
This gets even more complicated when it comes to versioning (production changes). There are some mixers that have frame, line+frame, line, and nothing at all. With the last entry (nothing) being most common. But even the non-nothing is weak, or has drawbacks.
These vary wildly from line TBCs in S-VHS VCRs, or frame DataVideo/Cypress type TBCs specifically created for consumer sources. And primarily for digitization, not some other mixing/keying/etc function.
These units can be interesting, useful at times. But these add to a workflow, not really a replacement for anything in a standard workflow (quality VCR with line TBC, quality frame TBC, quality capture card).
At best, you can say "better than nothing" (aka "not that ugly", "doesn't suck", aka a non-compliment)."
So what do we learn of this video ? A TBC is no option for most people ! i see no value in the information of this video, other than: TBC ? don't try it..
If you are willing to spend the money, a TBC in good or restored condition are on the market and work well for people with large collections.
@@BenneWill they cost thousands of dollars, because this is rare equipment, (and they're the ones that are holding them back), i know these people, and they're plain rude to newbees, their gospell is you can't do it without TBC,(is not true) clever, because they have the most profit of it, by selling...
@@BenneWill problem is you have to rely on the person, that such an old device is already recapped, if so the huge price for it, will scare people away, plus… LS said he won't help newbees anymore, this person is stuck in time, a windows pc isn't a great platform anymore for capture, now there are good HDMI recorders, for a reasonable price, compared to the old, rare and expensive devices, using composite degrades the signal, a good capture done over SDI, component, or HDMI, will even show details a CTR did not reveal, certain scalers, have also a TBC like function, but with a HDMI dongle the frame rate can be all over the place, but when re encoded with the correct framerate, this is corrected.
@@xavierzander4201 Hindsight 20/20, the majority of consumers wanting to digitize VHS tapes, are not going to want to spend the time and effort in obtaining the equipment I mentioned in this video. DigitalFAQ continues to be a good source for purchasing TBCs. With that being said, I think the majority of people have the mindset of digitizing, watching once, and putting it away. A DV converter in that case would be good enough. TBCs are still the best equipment that was ever made for VHS and it's unfortunate they stopped making them.
@@duncanmacleod2136 the advise is just not realistic for most people to just buy a TBC these TBC's are to rare, this advise comes only from the people who sell those TBC's and resell at those high asking prices is also not a realistic option, Lordsmurf gives only negative answers, to sell his stuff, and those negative answers are not hard to find in the two forums, Helping newbees becomes mostly a battle in those forums, and scares the actual people that want to be helped, a lot..most information is very old, about capture devices that are not available anymore.
The TBC function of a JVC recorder is also overrated i experienced, best option stays a Panasonic DVD recorder, or combo recorder from Panasonic because of the VHS refresh feature that comes with the DIGA ones, to use as passthrough, Most stand alone TBC's weren't even made for the "quality" of VHS video.
If there's a HDMI output available that would also be fine, only you need still a passthrough device to strip the HDCP from that because of it being a consumer device, converting from a DIGA device you can use also a BlackMagic Design Analog to SDI converter and record that, with a SDI PCIe card or harware recorder, with such a "chain" video is handled correctly, and even cheaper than old collector item equipment, not using a computer for capturing saves you from using legacy computer hardware/software
$40 a tape?? how about $9
Hello....i am from Brasil....tell me, where to find one of this ?
The major question here is: does it work with PAL-M, Brazilian TV color system?
@@lordvega3112 Hello....but i will use it just in NTSC mode....
@@vindat2012 oh, i see. So you won't be using it with VHS recorded in Brazilian VCRs then? Or these TBCs have different settings for the different color modes (NTSC, PAL, PAL-M, SECAM).
@@lordvega3112 Let me tell you exactly why I'm interested in a TBC. I work converting video tape format to digital file, such as VHS, Sony 8 mm, 8mm digital, Betamax, etc. so some tapes I receive have signal fluctuations and I believe that a controlled TBC could minimize this interference, so I will have better quality in my final video, which I then take to Adobe Premieri to adjust the audio, color, and finally improve the quality of the final product. The most of the tapes I receive are in NTSC USA and PAL-M, very little, but In this case I wouldn't use the TBC, or I could even use a Tanscorder PAL to NT...that's it! Tanks
Был бы перевод на русский, цены бы не было
You pro-sumer guys are a weird bunch.
!!!
@bennywilliams
Is there a way to reach out personally to you …. I need help
Reach me in the comments here. My email is also benklesc@aol.com