EVs & ICE Cars Seeing RIDICULOUS Discounts For New Vehicles
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- Prices of new cars are coming down... big time! And it's not just electric vehicles either, as ICE cars are also seeing crazy discounts. So what's going on? Stick around as Dave Takes It On.
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People slowly realising they don’t need a brand new car every 2 or 3 years and all they are doing is feeding the industrial and financial machine.
Prices were artificially inflated during the Covid shortages so prices are starting to normalise again but there is also the issue of people feeling the financial pinch and not being able to afford to buy a new car. EVs have been popular with company leasing which means lots of these get dropped onto the used market which impacts used prices; there also seem to be a lot of model refreshed with EV, often bringing a bigger battery and longer range which then devalues the old model more quickly.
and another reason modern cares generally are more reliable, do not rust and all that so people less tempted to change ? especially if money is tighter ?
Many years ago, I was training in accountancy. The aspect of accountancy that fascinated me was Cost Accounting. While some production may look like they are making losses, they also account for much of the company's overheads and fixed costs. Consequently, stopping production of these would pass the overhead costs to other products, turning a profit into a massive loss for the company.
Sales are down because the prices of vehicles is too inflated. You can't even buy a decent used car (EV, gas, diesel pick your poison). Are running historically higher than ever before the pandemic. We bought an SUV for 4500.00 you can't even touch that same vehicle for less than 10k now. Huge difference.
Well done Dave.... good 'down to earth' common sense.
Absolutely spot on, prices will have to normalise at sensible levels.
A well maintained ICE car is good for 20 years, say 200,000 miles and does it all. The trouble is new ones are too expensive for the average Joe. So a 2-5 year old one at a 50% discount makes sense and you can run it as long as you like. Why buy a new one? Same goes for EV's - too expensive new for the non Corporate buyer. The EV market is so uncertain there is natural consumer resistance. Net effect is many are sitting on their hands, cherishing their existing cars and waiting to see what happens. Oddly enough the more there is price discounting and still more amazing "deals" the more consumers confidence will be shaken. Better to keep pace with the mortgage or better yet pay it down fast!
In 2022 the Mach e started at £42500 it's now over £50000.
It has a long way to go before it's affordable or value for money. It's way too expensive.
People all over , USA, U.K. etc have been hit by a cost of living crisis, most cannot afford to buy a new ( or even used car), so keeping their current car longer. Absolutely spot on that prices have to come down to reflect demand, plus will have a knock on effect in the second hand market.
There is also a hidden problem looming with all those EVs sitting around for 12-24 months in stock - what state will the HV Battery be in if they have sat there at a very low state of charge…….. not great I would imagine because I doubt dealers will be spending money giving them the occasional trickle charge.
About time prices dropped. Had it so good for too long.
Stellantis have done this with so many models.... People who can wait will pick up some great bargains in 2024 and 2025
Stellantis EV’s are all over-priced but no one pays list price (unless they are an idiot!). £10k off a brand new Peugeot e308 easy - just go on Autotrader.
You’ve got to remember that the Stellantis brands were always historically massively discounted anyway- there was a list price but no-one ever paid it. Look at the list prices of the latest Astra - no one in their right mind would pay that same with all the others.
Great video
High interest rates and cost of living crises, not a surprise people aren’t paying out for a new car
This price war is good for new car buyers
Great to see you in Manchester today at the Cybertruck tour, looking forward to the video!
Hello are you able to supply details if there are indeed Cybertrucks in the UK to go have a look at?! Thanks.
Car prices as with everything else have been going up and up. 4 years ago an Audi Q5 S Line, was £40,500, now £48,850. This is a huge increase and it has meant EV's that should have been nearer £20,000 have been priced at mid thirties. Stellantis are crazy and all of theses discounts as you say, bring them closer to what they should have been priced at originally.
This has also impacted the second hand market, where prices seem to have adjusted to where they should be for a second hand one.
Tesla at under £40,000 is now an amazing car for that price and similar spec for others have pushed prices over that £40,000. Car prices have increased but to a stupid amount and this is especially seen in the legacy car makers.
40000 pounds sterling for a tesla is way too much money, no thank you.
Only experience I’ve had recently and this is petrol is the new MINI, the new look isn’t selling and they are taking £3-4k off the sticker price. A standard Cooper for £28k with not even all the options is madness.
The newest, latest & greatest tech is always at premium prices as the tech becomes the norm the prices drop & the next new thing becomes the new premium priced product, that's just how it works. Early adopters always pay higher prices, if like me you're old enough to remember video players you'll remember that when they were fist lauched they cost 2-3 hundred £ but within a few short years you could go into Asda & pick one up for £20.
It’s quite simple - car prices have risen way faster than incomes (in the same way houses have). That wasn’t so much of a problem when we had low interest rates and inflation, with cheap finance rates.
Now we have higher inflation so rising prices and higher interest rates so more expensive monthly payments for cars. Guess what - less disposable income and higher car prices/finance means people aren’t buying cars. Duh - it’s not exactly rocket science.
Unfortunately for EV’s, they are hit worst by this, as for a lot of people they are not exactly essential purchases. This will pass, but in the meantime manufacturers will dump cars to sell them, so big discounts will continue for some time.
Don’t know if it’s the same there, but I’ve noticed that there’s a way bigger difference between trade in and selling prices of used cars now. Combine higher sales prices with a high cost of borrowing, and it’s a recipe for a sales downturn. Then there’s the impact of deflated trade in prices on lease costs. Tax rules vary, but if it’s costing too much to buy a new car every three years, it makes sense to amortize a loan or lease agreement over a longer period. I like the lower running costs of electric, but to each their own.
Cheers Dave
The only thing I would add is that technology is deflationary (ever buy a new smart phone that cost more and did less?). Once technology takes hold of anything, the pace of development is exponential (not linear). You can see this in the Chinese EV market - the BYD Seagull is an incredible evolution on where the company started out just a few years ago. Not only is the Seagull cheap to start with, it uses Sodium battery packs (salt) but has all the tech you could want and with little or no servicing. The Total cost of ownership of an EV is MUCH less than ANY equivalent Internal Combustion Engine. ICE had a good run but like steam (coal) and horses before it - they have been replaced by something better. And cheaper which is more important to most buyers.
The situation is going to get EVEN WORSE for ICE once EV take up really bites. And as a result, there is huge opposition to EV from established Industries who have seen their leisurely and profitable new car version every 8 years and change the lights at 4 years model go up in electrical smoke. A 2024 engine (which by the way won't have been altered in years except to meet emissions) is essentially the same as Henry Ford's version of 100+ years ago. Even turbos and superchargers are far from a new innovation. Change or die. Very simple.
Hello again lol
Vauxhall is a serial discounter too, last Corsa my wife bought was a pre-reg £15k one for £10k in 2018. The deal at the moment is Citroen EC4X discounted by £12k+.
All Stellantis brand cars are like this - Peugeot, Vauxhall, Citroen, Fiat and others all way overpriced at list price and massively discounted.
In the UK we are seeing a massive reduction on PCH rentals as it's the best way to reduce stock levels without distressing the true up-front cost. It also kicks the Residual Value can down the road for a few years. With supply now exceeding demand AND the very real insurgence of the Chinese brands into the UK market this means no more spiralling RPI-busting RRP increases. Hence the move to the much vaunted Agency plan has been shelved by most OEM's (Mercedes excepted, for now) as we now enter a likely prolonged and sustained 'Push' market. The Covid days of no discounts, limited supply are long gone and will be dramatically hastened further when the effect of the ZEV legislation manifests itself later this year. BEV's will drop dramatically in cost and all ICE cars will suffer from OEM reduced supply accordingly.
There's a GWM showroom in braintree with 72 plate ORA funky cats that have been sat there for over a year unsold
The GWM Ora was launched at absolutely the worst time, just when inflation and interest rates took off. The pricing was/is all wrong and has resulted in tiny sales and now massive discounts to try and shift them. I know, as on our company scheme the Ora is really cheap to lease and that’s due to huge discounts (I estimate 30% plus).
The price is what the purchaser is willing to pay. EVs are bought by companies etc at a massive state subsidy. Three years later they are on the second hand market to be bought by private buyers. The value is what they are prepared to pay,not some notional value. What will happen to new and second hand prices when the Chinese dump cheap cars on the market? Sensibly people are making their assessment and not buying (at the moment).
I think this threat is over stated. BYD have said they hardly make profits on their EV’s in China and are looking to make increased profits outside China. They are also conscious ‘dumping’ will result in tariffs. I think they will mildly undercut competitors, enough to drive sales and maximum profits, not enough to raise Western Gov ire and protectionist policies.
Were you at M40 Oxford services today, sniffing round the Tesla chargers? Bit of a hike, isn't it?
We have two cars , I’ve had mine for ten years now & my wife has had hers for six years now . We have no thought of buying a new one , we refuse to buy an ev & ice cars are so boring these days .
Currency devaluation. The Euro and US Dollar is weak. Prices high, wages low. People can’t afford new cars, certainly not EVs, in this economic depression.
Increase in homeworking?
the mach e select is only 43K currently which has kinda swayed us into getting one.
I agree, at £43k it is getting much more sensible to look at but it is also a very packed market sector
Just check out if you are locked into any pricey servicing to maintain warranty. Tesla do not have a service schedule or associated cost. A friend of mine has had the same Mach E since they came out in the UK years ago and still has it, and loves it.
Get a used one for half that.
The new prices are ridiculous so they can knock this off no problem if they want to shift them.
I wonder why Dave ignored the fact that Toyota said that they are making profits on their hybrids and they are not reducing price like Telsa.
There’s loads of brand new Toyota’s on AutoTrader with up to £6k discount
I seem to remember I did state exactly that. But then asked, if they are making so much profit, how can they be the most indebted company the planet has ever seen and needs obscene and massive government handouts that put Japan into a terminal perpetual recession and negative GDP. And why has their economy slipped behind Germany for the first time for over 50 years? My own personal finances would be well in profit if the government paid my mortgage and I bought all my groceries on a credit card that I never paid back.
Again in total agreement, my wife bought a Corsa electric but it was massively discounted to sub £20k through Autotrader last September. No way she would have paid the £33k list price but just under £20k its not a bad little car.
Stellantis are the main ones for massive discounts as their list prices are just so unrealistic.
Yep and it shows if you get leasing quotes for any Stellantis EV’s. Yes there are massive discounts but the depreciation is massive too, so they are all expensive to lease due to bad residuals. I actually have a leased Stellantis EV as rates weren’t bad 2 years ago but no way will I get another one on lease.
Still seems an awful lot of money for a fast depreciating asset, but I see your reasoning if it is right for you.
@@nigbiker2592all cars, ICE and EVs, are fast depreciating assets thats why so many drivers lease these days.
You said how far you have to drive to see family, I live in Brisbane Australia & here is how far I have to go to see my family ( in miles we use Km)
Townsville 797
Sydney 584
Geelong 1070
Perth 2520
Bit different here to GB.
Except for Perth just drive non-stop, be hard in an EV
This is where the EU has a massive advantage and will see much faster adoption of EVs.
But you do have massive advantage too. Sun. Solar panels will charge a small EV as a run around town.
We also get hail ŵhich smashes solar panels@@Burz69
I know my family would see much less of me if I lived over there. But I don't and neither does 95% of the world population. You do your own thing and I'll do mine.
Try buying a brand new Skoda Enyaq, the wait for a brand new model of your choosing is between 26 to 52 weeks depending on model, discounts, not a chance……
That’s because 95% of them are pre-sold allocation to fleets (at a discount), so the general public can’t get many of them. That makes it looks like there is no discounting as it’s hidden in leasing rates, but the discounts are there.
Why would you want to???
If a car, ICE or BEV has been sitting around for a year or two not running would not it's 12v battery be shot along with tyres and lubricants and in a ICE car with hundreds of moving parts many could have dried out . A four year old brand new car could be just scrap value.
Looking for a new car, my old diesel with 228 thou on clock is nearing its end.... Had it 8 years..... It cost £100......prices in UK insane.... Probably going to be a project.... Write off, engine dead.... Something new, simple and cheap..... No pure tech, wet belt engines though..... That tech is not for me 😊❤️🇬🇧
With the ZEV mandate the dealers will be more likely be forced to give larger discounts on EVs
This discounting is going to have considerable impact on the resale value of used ICE cars.
If you're in the market for a used car, get an EV. I wonder if the reason ICE new sales are stalling is because used EVs are such good value?
No it’s because new cars are way too expensive still, even with big discounts. High inflation and interest rates have killed demand for all new cars and EV’s are bearing a lot of the pain. Will change but not for a couple of years.
@ISuperTed I've seen an ICE Peugeot brand new discounted over 30%. ICE are devaluing. Used EVs are selling fast. If you want to minimise devaluation buy a used EV. They've already taken the hit, and there are cheap to run.
Doesn't hold true for Toyota hybrids.... In the US they have 8 days supply.
It's because people who bought EV's 6 years ago don't need a new car thanks to software updates and they cost so little to run. Fossil cars aren't selling because people are keeping them until EV's are available for an affordable price.
Great point, video on this coming out soon
So little to run? Is that your own experience.
@@mikemars5984 Yes. I've recently changed from diesel to electric. What I was spending on VED and fuel alone is paying for the EV, the insurance and the electricity. The servicing on the EV every 24 months instead of every 6 for the diesel, and costs £75 as opposed to £350 for the diesel, a £1325 saving on it's own.
I've done a journey of 130 miles today, at a fuel cost of £1.80, the same journey in the diesel would have cost £25.
This is karma. After all the obscene mark ups, the shoe is on the other foot now.
Isn't it great, terrific. Everyone screamed for cheaper EVs and now we have them. Let's hope they get even cheaper.
Congrats to Toyota who manufactured and sold record numbers of vehicles.
I'd like to see Toyota's long term debt curve flatten and start trending downward. Until EverGrande overtook them Toyota was the world's most in debt company.
I seem to remember I did state exactly that but then asked, if they are making so much profit, how can they be the most indebted company the planet has ever seen and needs obscene and massive government handouts that put Japan into a terminal perpetual recession and negative GDP. And why has their economy slipped behind Germany for the first time for over 50 years? My own personal finances would be well in profit if the government paid my mortgage and I bought all my groceries on a credit card that I never paid back.
I have been saying over the few years, electric cars are not the future. It’s not a good idea and it will never work.
EVs are not the future, they are the present. They are already here and are here to stay and work brilliantly for many. Maybe not for you.
When I look at electric cars I see them as a fire hazard that can’t be extinguished by the fire brigade. When I look at ICE cars yes they are a fire risk as well but the fire can easily be put out by the fire brigade. The difference between electric cars and ICE cars is the electric car fires are a chemical reaction fire called thermal runaway and this types of fire are far more toxic than an ice car. This link is showing you just how difficult it is for the fire brigade to put out an electric car fire. Link: th-cam.com/video/itGeAq9rBeY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Qs_4nfeWyxO5c130
I wouldn’t buy an electric car new or especially second hand.
Just suppose for a moment that this is wrong and there is negligible risk, what's you next reasone for not buying a BEV?
Easily put out? Are you on a different planet? Surely the Luton airport car park fire, caused 100% by a pure diesel car, didn't get put out so easily. The car park is a total write off needing to be demolished and 1,400 cars burned totally. I love your definition of easily put out.
@@davetakesiton Hi Dave and thank you for your comments. When I said “easily be put out” I mean via normal fire brigade protocol “WATER” .
Electric car fires are a chemical fire which is totally different and due to the battery tech Lithium Ion multiple ignitions can occur after the initial fire so the electric car traction battery fires are totally different and the fire brigade are the first to admit they have no answer to put out an electric car traction battery fire successfully using present methods, that’s why the more electric cars that frequent our roads the more likely it is that there will be more electric car Traction battery fires. I would advise you to contact your local fire brigade to obtain first hand information regarding electric car traction battery fire protocol at he moment. Love your channel Dave it’s very informative and thank you again for commenting.
@@kevinnice108 Thank you for your comments. I wouldn’t buy an electric car as the chemical reaction taking place to drive the car is directly under my drivers seat and my Family passage’s seats. As I am fully aware of the chemical reaction taking place in the lithium ion battery traction pack at such high DC voltage, around 800 volts DC (long range models) I would not feel easy in driving one of these electric cars for that reason. At least in ICE cars the reaction Petrol or Diesel is happening within the cylinders and under the front bonnet well away from me and the passenger’s.
Dave, time to brush up on your logic skills:
3:57 That Ford loses $120,000 per Mach E does not logically imply "the more they sell, the more they lose," as you claim at 3:57. You need to decompose the $180,000 cost into fixed and marginal. Your claim is only true if marginal cost exceeds marginal revenue.
4:41 600 stock days does not logically imply that some stock is from 2022. Numerical example: if 60,000 of a model were in stock and an average of 100 sold per day over the past 45 days (the customary interval used in the US auto sales analysis) that's 600 stock days. Those 60,000 units need not have been been produced in 2022, or even 2023 for that matter.
Perhaps it's time to properly think through your videos rather than rushing them out every day. Quality over quantity, please.
Maybe you could look at it the other way. If you produce 600 days of stock in a single year, as you suggest, say 2024, then by the time you sell them all, it will be 2026. You will eventually be seeing 2 year old models. Look forward or backward, 600 days of stock is seriously bad news. Research valid
@@davetakesiton Just think for a minute what stock days actually means. If sales pick up compared with the previous 45 days, that stock can clear faster than the projected 600 days. It all depends on future demand and future production. Yes, in practice, 600 stock days is terrible. That doesn't mean your logic is correct.