Hi there, love your content! A comment to the Welcome To The Jungle list - it seems to be 2100 points. Just thinking on how to modify it to fit properly - maybe cutting one unit of skinks, and changing bastiladon to ark of sotek? That sums up to 1950, could add in a cheap endless spell like pendulum or burning head to make up for the lack of shooting from bastiladon.
Woops, seems like some wires were crossed with that list! Thanks for catching that. The list is 2100 like you said, so you can cut the Spawn, or you can cut 10 Skinks and take a cheaper spell... Emerald Lifeswarm is overcosted right now!
God damn, this video is absolutely awesome ! 9hours of pure Seraphon goodness. As a new AoS player, this is really really useful to help me learne the faction.
Love the discussion, found you for the hedonites review vid and subscribed. Your unit discussion and multiple sample army list were the most fun to listen to.
Watched every minute while anxiously last minute painting my army for a tourney using your beginner's SC list. Got my first tourney win! Love this channel.
Damn, it's hard to bring more quality for a review than you do, what a job ! I'm still watching it. Well done guys ! (I secretly wish for a Skaven or Gloomspite video of that kind :3 )
Oh wow, 9 hours? I found what I’ll be listening to at work today and tomorrow! I know it’s months off, but I can wait to hear y’all’s review of the Cities tome when it drops. I enjoy how y’all present information, and I’m sure you’ll have some great ways to utilize Stormcast in Cities
man i just wish there was a channel like you two for skaven and soulblight but i still appreciate the content, love to listen while assembling/painting
@@cmleibenguth If the single shot hit on 3+, or did D3+3 damage, then I would agree with you... but 24" 4+/2+/D6 is a really bad shooting profile for 125p. The Celestar Ballista has +12" range, 3+ hit, Rend-3, and it still doesn't see play. The Stream of Fire attack keeps the Spawn relevant. When you play against armies with units that have 10+ models (Slaanesh, Khorne, Cities, other Seraphon, etc.) it feels like an S Tier unit, but any time you play something more elite like Gargants, Ogors, or Stormcast it really feels like a waste of points. So it balances out as an A Tier unit :)
Just made it to the "D6, also known as 1" bit I actually laughed at that Well put and a sentiment I share on similar bonuses It's the same for video games that promise double drops on super rare items (as in quantity, not the rate at which those things drop) My thought is "2×0=0", the problem ain't the number of items it's the rate!
I charge with 6 Aggradons, if I kill the enemy unit I still have 6 Aggradons. If I don't kill the unit, I'm probably down 1 Aggradon but get the rage count +1 with means I still have the amount of attacks of 6 Aggradons but now I can hit with everybody. I love the rule so far!
If you could stomp outside of 3 inches then every mawkrusha could move d6 into combat so I'm pretty sure you can't use most monster rampages outside of 3
As a general rule Monstrous Rampages can be used even if there are no enemies within 3", but many of the Rampages (Roar, Stomp, Titanic Duel) require picking an enemy within 3". This is why you cannot just Stomp your way into combat with Destructive Bulk (requires picking a unit within 3') but you can use a Rampage like Unstoppable Charge on a Stonehorn even if you destroy the only unit within 3" with charge mortal wounds (does not require picking an enemy within 3").
Curious if any of your unit tier rankings change of you're playing Starborne or Coalesced? Was surprised to see the Oldblood on foot get such a low rank. On Starborne I'd agree but I'd think in Coalesced he'd have a stronger tanning. Thoughts?
Our rankings try to consider both Starborne and Coalesced For example, Chargers are S Tier because they are incredible in Starborne and still good in Coalesced. Oldblood arguably feels worse in Coalesced because you can get +1 to wound when charging with Koatl's Claw, and it does not require receiving a command
Did we mention casting it on a Stegadon? It definitely can't be cast on that unit! When you record for 9 hours there's bound to be a small blunder like a slip of the tongue
It sucks that not only is starborne obviously more versatile and competitive in faction effects but also has more viability in battle tactics and grand strategies. I'll still run coalesced because I love the dinos but unfortunately starborne got all the love in this tome
Starborne (specifically Dracothions Tail) seems to be better overall, but Coalesced can do some really neat things with tools like Telepathic Summons, Vengeful Defender, Sotek's Gaze, and Itxi Grubs. The new seasonal rules they have previewed so far like Hoarfrost look very interesting for units like Carnosaurs and Saurus Warriors... Don't count Coalesced out yet!
really interesting video, maybe "a bit" too long :D but i dissagree with some opinnions. first of all i think kroak list will be S tier, and everyone will cry as always that seraphon are broken like always bla bla, and so gw wont balance the other part of the book, when in real book is C tier at best without kroak list. it is full of total useless and nonsense rules. bites for starter, being 1" means only 5-10 models will use them based on unit size, and then every non useless player will remove models base to base making them totally useless. rule need to be rewritten to be exactly like dok melusais. only 1 model need to be at 1" to whole unit do his bites, and they are done before removing models. and why half saurus unit dont get bites???? every dinosaur and cavalry saurus unit should have get an inproved bite, like 6 bites for dinosaurs. and 2 bites per every agradon+1 for raiders. carnos 9 bites since hace an hero. it makes sense and would make all those bad units sligthy better( once bite mechanic get rewritted to make it usable). new saurus are worst than 20 old saurus by far, cloose to same tankines and half dmg for same cost, and they were bad before, why are new ones A? after learning how useless bites are i would place them at B tier. list should difference betwen coalesced and starts since they are totally different, per example an slan would be a Bfor me, since they are A is stars and C in coalesced. 300p only to get a +1 to cast( not always) on other casters ist so amazing to me. his spells are pretty meh and they really need enhacements to know more spells to make them ok. in coalesced they cost too much to get minimal utility. skink with 2 spells would be B for me, since his spell is situational at best, and only would know 1 spell more, in contrast skink priest(1 spell) would be S for me, amazing buff always and his spell is good always and can use lore spell if nedeed, not wasting half his spells cast alwais on mystic shield like previous one. swap both bastis. melee one is amazing tanking and not so bad at melee at 200p but solar one is waaay overpriced, it does lower dmg than previous one and cant double shot, it should cost 180-200 at best or being able to double shot if dont move. every huanchi unit is F tier for sure, absolute worst dmg/tankynes unit in whole aos at those points. cant even compare them to skavens gutter runners when they are same place units.in contrast his 3 little terradons are like A tier for me, cheapest deep strike unit, fast obj grabing and being able to debuff some unit meanwhile, absolute great for me. stegadons are C tier at best, maybe even worst, his warscroll is a 220-240point one but cost 300-330.... and never will get a deserved -80 point cost, so wont be usabbles untill next book. spawn is straigh D tier cloose to F, it does 0 dmg at ranged and has around 40% chance doing his intended role. even worst since it should be done on high armor targets, cloose range version would be ok without the 10 model target restriction and if it would aply debuff too. slanesh cavalry has 100% to aply the debuff even on 2 units for only 40p more or so... unit need a total rewritte, like double number of long shots and aplyng debuff only on hits. swap melee versus ranged terodactils, ranged ones are straigh useless F tier, since little terradons do his job better and cheaper, while melee ones arent so bad maybe even A tier, since they are one of the few unit in book that does cloose to his intended dmg per points. raptadon rangeds arent totally useless, i would say B tier, yes they are too squishy and do way too low dmg, but we havent anywai to atack first, so 2 unit of melee chickens cant atack at same time, since one would be deleted before doing anything, in contrast 1 melee and 1 ranged could both get to atack at same time. i would swap kroxis with renekton kroxis, since normal kroxis do more dmg for less points and get to usehis ability sometimes, while croco ones has an useless ability that need to be rewritten to +1hit if cloose to skink unit, or can atack inmedialy after an skink unit( like fantasy skink cohorts with kroxis). engine is straigh FFF tier, worst scroll in all warganes history, even at 150p would be useless, need a total rewritte or at least faqed to trow 1 extra dice always. troglodon is far to S tier, even in kroak bomb is A tier at best, outside that would be a C tier cloose to D tier, since it need to do double his dmg for those points, only 1 cast without any bonus and with a very situational spell is bad too, and even the aura has way too low range. per example a vampire lord do almost same dmg with way better aura, also self healing and casting 1 spell( in the most op lore in aos) for almost half points. needs a rewrite doubling his dmg since is a freaking giant dinosaur!! and getting an extra spell for that points cost, actual scroll is 180-200p agradons again like most of the book need a rewrite of scroll, actual ability is totally useless, and they do way too low dmg and tankyness for his points. they are D tier or even F for me, only compare them to vamp cavalry, doing like double our dmg, more speed and tankynes and heals for measly 20p more is a joke in general im so sad on this book, being forced to play kroak list only to be playables like in 1.0 age. dinosaurs lists that i loved to play( despite not being great) are totally useless now. and every coalesced list without kroak is a C tier at best, and would be totally smashed by last 6 op books like vampires,ko,khorne,slanesh,bonereapers ,gitz or even ogres.
Seems like we have a lot of disagreements, and that's okay :) We can agree on bite rolls being janky, and that it's quite silly that they are missing from so many Saurus units!
Hi there, love your content! A comment to the Welcome To The Jungle list - it seems to be 2100 points. Just thinking on how to modify it to fit properly - maybe cutting one unit of skinks, and changing bastiladon to ark of sotek? That sums up to 1950, could add in a cheap endless spell like pendulum or burning head to make up for the lack of shooting from bastiladon.
Woops, seems like some wires were crossed with that list! Thanks for catching that.
The list is 2100 like you said, so you can cut the Spawn, or you can cut 10 Skinks and take a cheaper spell... Emerald Lifeswarm is overcosted right now!
The original version of the list did not include a Spawn, so I'm not sure where that came from haha
@@TheStormkeep oh yea, cutting the spawn also seems reasonable, might need the additional 10 skinks for screening/board presence
EPIC! Enjoyed every minute of the 9 hours talking Seraphon! :)
We should do it again some time!
Been watching Caleb’s videos for months now and I love that he came onto Stormkeep! 🙏
@@KenrickBlockDude, same.
Cam here from Caleb's reference. Amazing content guys, especially for newcomers. Best review of Seraphon on TH-cam.
Thanks David :)
It's here, It's finaly here!!!
I hope it was worth the wait!
God damn, this video is absolutely awesome ! 9hours of pure Seraphon goodness. As a new AoS player, this is really really useful to help me learne the faction.
Love the discussion, found you for the hedonites review vid and subscribed. Your unit discussion and multiple sample army list were the most fun to listen to.
Thank you guys for making such a long video! Now i have 5 days worth of entertainment 😁
Our pleasure!
Watched every minute while anxiously last minute painting my army for a tourney using your beginner's SC list. Got my first tourney win! Love this channel.
Ayy congrats!
Congratulations! Glad you find our content interesting and useful
Damn, it's hard to bring more quality for a review than you do, what a job ! I'm still watching it. Well done guys ! (I secretly wish for a Skaven or Gloomspite video of that kind :3 )
The ship has sailed for Gitz and Skaven unfortunately haha
Maybe we will do a review like this for Skaven next summer...
Oh wow, 9 hours? I found what I’ll be listening to at work today and tomorrow! I know it’s months off, but I can wait to hear y’all’s review of the Cities tome when it drops. I enjoy how y’all present information, and I’m sure you’ll have some great ways to utilize Stormcast in Cities
We will definitely be doing a full review like this for Cities of Sigmar! As Stormcast players, it is a natural extension of our army
Thanks so much! We love doing these and we hope it helps a ton!
LETSSSSS GOOOOOOO 9 hours of a review should be the new standard.
Im not sure the other AOS podcasters would agree haha
Great job!!!
man i just wish there was a channel like you two for skaven and soulblight but i still appreciate the content, love to listen while assembling/painting
Unfortunately we cannot cover every faction... maybe some day!
Absolute mad lads!
New salamander is a terror
Definitely S tier
Good ally choice if not playing Seraphon
Bastiladon not having skink keyword may not be a mistake
May be for balance purposes
@@cmleibenguth If the single shot hit on 3+, or did D3+3 damage, then I would agree with you... but 24" 4+/2+/D6 is a really bad shooting profile for 125p. The Celestar Ballista has +12" range, 3+ hit, Rend-3, and it still doesn't see play.
The Stream of Fire attack keeps the Spawn relevant. When you play against armies with units that have 10+ models (Slaanesh, Khorne, Cities, other Seraphon, etc.) it feels like an S Tier unit, but any time you play something more elite like Gargants, Ogors, or Stormcast it really feels like a waste of points.
So it balances out as an A Tier unit :)
@@cmleibenguth Really could go either way... but we are assuming it is intentional and won't be changed. If it gains SKINK then that would be a bonus!
Just made it to the "D6, also known as 1" bit
I actually laughed at that
Well put and a sentiment I share on similar bonuses
It's the same for video games that promise double drops on super rare items (as in quantity, not the rate at which those things drop)
My thought is "2×0=0", the problem ain't the number of items it's the rate!
I’m gunna have to pack a lunch to get through this great video?!
I charge with 6 Aggradons, if I kill the enemy unit I still have 6 Aggradons. If I don't kill the unit, I'm probably down 1 Aggradon but get the rage count +1 with means I still have the amount of attacks of 6 Aggradons but now I can hit with everybody. I love the rule so far!
The Welcome to the Jungle list has the points cost wrong, it's a 2040pts list without the emerald lifeswarm
Yup somebody brought this up in the pinned comment!
If you could stomp outside of 3 inches then every mawkrusha could move d6 into combat so I'm pretty sure you can't use most monster rampages outside of 3
As a general rule Monstrous Rampages can be used even if there are no enemies within 3", but many of the Rampages (Roar, Stomp, Titanic Duel) require picking an enemy within 3".
This is why you cannot just Stomp your way into combat with Destructive Bulk (requires picking a unit within 3') but you can use a Rampage like Unstoppable Charge on a Stonehorn even if you destroy the only unit within 3" with charge mortal wounds (does not require picking an enemy within 3").
Curious if any of your unit tier rankings change of you're playing Starborne or Coalesced? Was surprised to see the Oldblood on foot get such a low rank. On Starborne I'd agree but I'd think in Coalesced he'd have a stronger tanning. Thoughts?
Our rankings try to consider both Starborne and Coalesced
For example, Chargers are S Tier because they are incredible in Starborne and still good in Coalesced.
Oldblood arguably feels worse in Coalesced because you can get +1 to wound when charging with Koatl's Claw, and it does not require receiving a command
Doesn’t Huanchi Speed say no monsters? How are you casting that on Stegadon?
Did we mention casting it on a Stegadon?
It definitely can't be cast on that unit!
When you record for 9 hours there's bound to be a small blunder like a slip of the tongue
It sucks that not only is starborne obviously more versatile and competitive in faction effects but also has more viability in battle tactics and grand strategies. I'll still run coalesced because I love the dinos but unfortunately starborne got all the love in this tome
Starborne (specifically Dracothions Tail) seems to be better overall, but Coalesced can do some really neat things with tools like Telepathic Summons, Vengeful Defender, Sotek's Gaze, and Itxi Grubs.
The new seasonal rules they have previewed so far like Hoarfrost look very interesting for units like Carnosaurs and Saurus Warriors...
Don't count Coalesced out yet!
really interesting video, maybe "a bit" too long :D
but i dissagree with some opinnions.
first of all i think kroak list will be S tier, and everyone will cry as always that seraphon are broken like always bla bla, and so gw wont balance the other part of the book, when in real book is C tier at best without kroak list.
it is full of total useless and nonsense rules. bites for starter, being 1" means only 5-10 models will use them based on unit size, and then every non useless player will remove models base to base making them totally useless. rule need to be rewritten to be exactly like dok melusais. only 1 model need to be at 1" to whole unit do his bites, and they are done before removing models.
and why half saurus unit dont get bites???? every dinosaur and cavalry saurus unit should have get an inproved bite, like 6 bites for dinosaurs. and 2 bites per every agradon+1 for raiders. carnos 9 bites since hace an hero. it makes sense and would make all those bad units sligthy better( once bite mechanic get rewritted to make it usable).
new saurus are worst than 20 old saurus by far, cloose to same tankines and half dmg for same cost, and they were bad before, why are new ones A? after learning how useless bites are i would place them at B tier.
list should difference betwen coalesced and starts since they are totally different, per example an slan would be a Bfor me, since they are A is stars and C in coalesced. 300p only to get a +1 to cast( not always) on other casters ist so amazing to me. his spells are pretty meh and they really need enhacements to know more spells to make them ok. in coalesced they cost too much to get minimal utility.
skink with 2 spells would be B for me, since his spell is situational at best, and only would know 1 spell more, in contrast skink priest(1 spell) would be S for me, amazing buff always and his spell is good always and can use lore spell if nedeed, not wasting half his spells cast alwais on mystic shield like previous one.
swap both bastis. melee one is amazing tanking and not so bad at melee at 200p but solar one is waaay overpriced, it does lower dmg than previous one and cant double shot, it should cost 180-200 at best or being able to double shot if dont move.
every huanchi unit is F tier for sure, absolute worst dmg/tankynes unit in whole aos at those points. cant even compare them to skavens gutter runners when they are same place units.in contrast his 3 little terradons are like A tier for me, cheapest deep strike unit, fast obj grabing and being able to debuff some unit meanwhile, absolute great for me.
stegadons are C tier at best, maybe even worst, his warscroll is a 220-240point one but cost 300-330.... and never will get a deserved -80 point cost, so wont be usabbles untill next book.
spawn is straigh D tier cloose to F, it does 0 dmg at ranged and has around 40% chance doing his intended role. even worst since it should be done on high armor targets, cloose range version would be ok without the 10 model target restriction and if it would aply debuff too. slanesh cavalry has 100% to aply the debuff even on 2 units for only 40p more or so... unit need a total rewritte, like double number of long shots and aplyng debuff only on hits.
swap melee versus ranged terodactils, ranged ones are straigh useless F tier, since little terradons do his job better and cheaper, while melee ones arent so bad maybe even A tier, since they are one of the few unit in book that does cloose to his intended dmg per points.
raptadon rangeds arent totally useless, i would say B tier, yes they are too squishy and do way too low dmg, but we havent anywai to atack first, so 2 unit of melee chickens cant atack at same time, since one would be deleted before doing anything, in contrast 1 melee and 1 ranged could both get to atack at same time.
i would swap kroxis with renekton kroxis, since normal kroxis do more dmg for less points and get to usehis ability sometimes, while croco ones has an useless ability that need to be rewritten to +1hit if cloose to skink unit, or can atack inmedialy after an skink unit( like fantasy skink cohorts with kroxis).
engine is straigh FFF tier, worst scroll in all warganes history, even at 150p would be useless, need a total rewritte or at least faqed to trow 1 extra dice always.
troglodon is far to S tier, even in kroak bomb is A tier at best, outside that would be a C tier cloose to D tier, since it need to do double his dmg for those points, only 1 cast without any bonus and with a very situational spell is bad too, and even the aura has way too low range. per example a vampire lord do almost same dmg with way better aura, also self healing and casting 1 spell( in the most op lore in aos) for almost half points. needs a rewrite doubling his dmg since is a freaking giant dinosaur!! and getting an extra spell for that points cost, actual scroll is 180-200p
agradons again like most of the book need a rewrite of scroll, actual ability is totally useless, and they do way too low dmg and tankyness for his points. they are D tier or even F for me, only compare them to vamp cavalry, doing like double our dmg, more speed and tankynes and heals for measly 20p more is a joke
in general im so sad on this book, being forced to play kroak list only to be playables like in 1.0 age. dinosaurs lists that i loved to play( despite not being great) are totally useless now. and every coalesced list without kroak is a C tier at best, and would be totally smashed by last 6 op books like vampires,ko,khorne,slanesh,bonereapers ,gitz or even ogres.
Seems like we have a lot of disagreements, and that's okay :)
We can agree on bite rolls being janky, and that it's quite silly that they are missing from so many Saurus units!
This guy is so mad. Roll some dice and play the book. It will be fun I swear!
@@ClovisLaRoche This Guy comment every channel with seraphon content xD And his topics make me laugh a lot ;)
I'm calling it: Lord Ordinator and multiple Spawn of Chotek.
Unfortunately the Spawn don't have the WAR MACHINE keyword haha
@@TheStormkeep No way! That's a bummer. So disappointed.