This video is an “oldie but a goodie”. By the way, the gas flow in the megalodon rebreather is right to left as opposed to left to right like in most other rebreather. Because of this, when Leon is clearing the flood at the beginning of the video, he is actually clearing the exhale counterlung of the rebreather which is on the left as opposed to the right. This is a great video and shows how robust and “indestructible” the Megalodon is. Congrats to Leon for making it.
Makes me wonder if the direction of air flow should be standardized in one direction, it's one less thing to go wrong. I don't know enough about rebreathers to know if this could be a problem or a non issue.
@Rev, Leon’s belief is that since most deaths on ccr are due to hypoxia, being able to add o2 quick with flow being right to left is a safer design then the standard flow of inhale from left to right.
@S M it’s not, most ccr’s have o2 on the exhale side, so it has to go through the scrubber and around to the inhale side before it gets to the diver. Having the o2 on the inhale side means it goes directly to the diver.
Clarification, ALL rebreathers have "water traps" in the form of counter lungs, which can be flushed. The counter lungs are before the sorb. KISS is the only exception, where the sorb goes before the counter lungs. This design means that the KISS is a bit more streamlined than other rebreathers, but it also means that the exhale-side sorb is the initial trap for anything that comes out of a divers mouth or any water that comes in through the mouthpiece, etc. That's why the exhale-side sorb comes out clumpy. Next, Meg has reverse flow to KISS. So Woody's explanation about intake/exhaust is incorrect/doesn't apply. Either way... I've seen this demonstration in the past, something that most new rebreathers (not KISS) can replicate.... but you wouldn't want to. He caused over $1000 worth of equipment damage with that demo. It should also be noted that Meg is an expedition grade eCCR, but there are many many others!
My mom just passed and I have a ton of medical problems. She knew how bad I wanted to dive need a few more surgeries but my Dr. said there should not be a reason I couldn't start diving by late 2023. you two are my main inspiration. I live in NJ and dividing isn't exactly popular here.
Great timing. I’m doing my TDI CCR online training to get ready for my ChOptima training in July. This really makes me feel better about going rebreather and even more excited to dive with it.
I appreciate all of your videos. You guys are so fun an informative at the same time. This video in particular stands out because I really appreciate this guy doing a torture test on his product, demonstrating its reliability, and puts his personal safety on the line to show us his product is trustworthy (which a quality product is increasingly difficult to find these days, no matter the item).
So the real question is....would you guys switch rebreathers? I learn from DIVE TALK every time I watch. I've never been diving....I'm quite scared of the water, but that's why I love Dive Talk and Woody and Gus. The comical bantering back and forth is worth the price of admission....just so worth it to watch.
I learned to scuba dive to get over a fear of water and I learned to skydive and fly a plane to get over fear of heights. It all never goes away but it gives you control over the fear and its rewarding. You should try it.
@@boofingenthusiast you're right.....but these other rebreathers are so state of the art....next level equipment. I'm almost positive that Woody and Gus would love to try those out.
@@shAnn0n1 i don't agree. Otherwise the equipment they have is obsolete I think they wouldn't change for anything. Practice and comfort I think is key in something like diving.
Awesome video! Rebreathers are awesome, and definitely offer more options when problems occur. A note though... at 5:50 in, it was said that the “left side” is the inhale side for rebreathers. This is not the case for all rebreathers. My Triton mCCR, a chest mounted unit, is the opposite. The exhale side is the left, and the inhale side is the right. Several other units are this way, including several other chest mounted O2 units. ☺️👍🏻 I would add, that if water gets into my unit, it goes into the exhale side, not the inhale side (water wont go that way due to the mushroom valve, aka check valve). If water goes into my loop, it goes into the exhale side, and I can drain it down into my exhale side lung, open my OPV, and flush it out.
I'm on the AP with the exhale on the right. The exhale counter lung (no matter the loop direction) is the most likely place for water to pool in as the most common place for tiny amounts of water ingress is around the lips.
You are my discovery of 2022, in the past i always say i never go diving in my life, its like my biggest fear but just by watching your vidéo you change my mind completely ! Keep going the great work your content is amazing !
I love you guys and I love your videos. I am not even a scuba diver. As a matter of fact, I don’t think I’ve even gone swimming in the last 15 years. But I sure do love learning about all this stuff and I sure do love the way you present it all. I so look forward to your videos. As a matter of fact, I just checked about an hour ago and didn’t see anything. Now I do… Let’s go watch some video with Gus and Woody!!!!
This comment made me realize just how long it's been since I went swimming too. (Probably more than 5 or 6 years at this point) Now I have to fix that!
I’m a leisure diver and probably will be too afraid to do cave diving… but I love watching your videos! They are just so informative and you both really take effort to explain to those who may not have basic knowledge on diving at all. I learnt so much from your videos. 👍
I’ve only done a little diving but in respect to your theory that rebreathers are safer I’ve always looked at it that since you’re carrying an open circuit system with you as a rebreather diver then you immediately have an extra system that some diving with just open circuit doesn’t. Maybe I’m not right on that and if not I’d love to know why but common sense tells me that if your main system fails having an entirely new second rig is inherently safer than just diving with one?
Yes, but you can't just consider whether you have a backup if it fails (completely) as one can always have twin (or more) independent tanks with independent regulators. What new additional or alternative way to fail (/kill) are there, and is the risk of that greater than the risk you face from an average open circuit setup?
You can always take redundancy with you. Some rec divers run dual sidemount tanks but it's not common. I think the thing with a rebreather is you get hours of dive time. After watching a ton of these disaster videos lots of deaths come from running out of air/getting complacent and not checking. Rebreathers have their own issues like flooding, po2 oxygen toxicity etc but i think for guys experienced like dive talk the extra time is worth it.
I think the bigger problem comes with the depths you can dive at with a rebreather, when you switch to oc you don’t have enough air to get up, I’ve only done a hand full of oc dives so I’m only guessing here, fascinating though.
@@streetmtb It's only when you're REALLY deep (90msw+) that becomes and issue. When you dive on a rebreather you plan for all your decompression to be on OC (as well as CC) and you take that amount of gas. for 50m+ (160ft) dives I've got 1x7l deep bail out (to get me to the shallows), not sure how bug that is in CuFt, probably about 50 and 1x11l with Nx50 for shallow water deco (18m / 60ft). The larger tank is an AL80. When you're deeper than 70m (230ft) Carrying enough gas becomes cumbersome and it's a group effort in most situations
You can tell it’s old video by the generic overused background music being used XD. That sound track brings back so many early 2000s memories. But more importantly, I have zero knowledge of rebreathers and thought they were a death trap and I didn’t know how it recycled air and I couldn’t find too much in depth online but this answered so much and made me realize how safe they can be. I had the misconception that they hadn’t changed from the original rebreathers that could explode
Remember the CEO of a ballistic vest company who let someone shoot him with a handgun point blank? A CEO who will stake his life on the product has earned my money.
It's pretty incredible how much damage that unit took and kept on working. This on top or the other benefits ccr provides, definitely has persuaded me that it might be worth investing in whenever I reach the point where it's financially viable.
Definitely impressive performance. I'm also looking at buying a rebreather in a year or two. Did a tryout on a Kiss Sidewinder last year and was so impressed. Just need to remind myself that rebreathers won't save me money.
@@Yggdrasil42 If you're regularly at depths that you'd use trimix they will end up being cheaper than OC simply because of how expensive helium is. If you're only at Nitrox depths, then yes they are more expensive
I'm CURIOUS what are say 5 features other than the big obvious non flooding loop type things, maybe more out there, extravagant things that you could or would like to see on rebreathers in maybe 15 20 years from now? From the other side of kinda same question, what are the largest problems or inconveniences you'd like to see solutions for?
Hi Gus and Woody, just want to say that you guys are awesome and I love the content! I've been listening to your videos while I work and I'm learning so much about diving. I'm living vicariously through your stories and hope some day to learn diving myself. 😀
Do you guys have any stories to tell about people that have dealt with a flooded canister and getting a mouthful of caustic solution? It sounds at minimum exceedingly unpleasant.
The only time I've had a caustic solution of any sort (a long time ago now) was when the canister flooded and the battery compartment also flooded. The caustic solution was from the battery rather than the absorbant. I use the molecular products Sofnolime 797 in an AP unit
I’m a caver and I have a friend who is a certified cave diver who pushes the siphons. Makes us super anxious but he’s broken into crazy passage and even un flooded a cave system via removing a clogging of glacial debris.
Speaking of rebreathers, I had no idea there were different types of breathers until this video! Would love to see the breakdown of different rebreather types , or i should say systems rather like hybrid/ mccr and ur take on the pros and cons? Also if you're looking for a reaction suggestion. "Cave Exploring Gone WRONG | The Plura Cave Disaster" from scary interesting on youtube i would recommend. It was well presented and raised some interesting questions. one of them is in the video they were on rebreathers and they also carried a "backup rebreather with open circuit gas" I'm not sure if the presentator was mistaken or not since from watching this video, if a rebreather has water its d.o.a. for the most part. How would you successfully use a backup rebreather on a 5+ hour(ended up being 11 hours with deco)??
There's only really 2 rebreather types Closed Circuit Rebreather (CCR) and Semi Closed-Circuit Rebreather (SCR). Don't get a SCR. it's REALLY not worth it. There's a bunch of manufacturers of Closed Circuit.
I'd need a rebreather with as many assists as possible. I'll take all I can get. I think you gotta lean more into the HUD systems. Every person who loves video games will be lining up to be a part of something where they finally get a HUD.
Always so good to hear your commentary on these types of videos. Is there a reason why the KISS doesn't have a water trap? Is it to keep it to a smaller size so you can use it in tighter spaces/cave restrictions, or some other reason(s)?
A water trap is a simple mechanic device, We use fluid traps in our labs for the vacuum pumps. Since rebreathers are highly engineered i thought this would be standard gimmic. It blows my mind it isnt.
Are there people that only use, or reasons why, one might bring only a rebreather and no "open circuit" setup? So that you can only rely on the rebreather and have no bail out option? or is that simply never done?
I've known people who took at look at the gas requirements for OC bail out (we're talking quite extreme stuff) and decided a second rebreather was the only viable bailout.
So as a neophyte that has never scuba before, you mentioned you had to relearn how to scuba when training for the rebreather. Would you advise learning rebreather first then open circuit? Or learn basic scuba on open circuit first and then go rebreather when you're experienced?
Hey gus and woody I love your channel and content, I have never dove before but I would love to learn and potentially move to cave diving ..any suggestions? Also can I start on a re-breather or would I need to be open circuit certified first?
Good video. It will be nice when rebreathers get to a price point that many of us mere mortals can handle. But good for those who’ve “made it” I suppose.
We have a really good friend who earns minimum wage and own a Sidewinder and goes cave diving all the time. Every dollar he earns goes towards diving (after paying bills), so it’s definitely doable you just have to make sacrifices.
So good! Another awesome video of technical information! This answered a bunch of curiosities and questions I've had about rebreather diving. Though, and I gotta just look it up, what I'm still unsure about is how specialised gas mixtures are introduced into a rebreather loop - or actually whether there always needs to be a small tank of oxygen to replace the little bit that is metabolised, so effectively "gone". Is PPO2 a measure of oxygen being added to the loop to compensate, or the oxygen available after exhaled air is scrubbed of CO2?
@S M Cool, thanks! So I gather that's how specialised gas mixtures are used with CCRs as well - the O2 bottle is just replaced by trimix or whatever? Is it the life of the scrub or the volume of that O2 supply that determines the theoretical maximum time a CCR can produce breathable air?
@@PBeringer You have a bottle of 100% O2 that is typically injected as needed by a computer controlled solenoid. In terms of gasses, I'm going to assume you're Nitrox Qualified (or you'll lookup any terms you don't understand). You really need a Nitrox qualification to understand partial pressures and the different types of O2 toxicity. You also have a bottle of diluent which can be Air, Nitox (but I don't see why anyone would use Nitrox), Trimix (helium + Air + O2 ) or Helox (helium + O2). Generally you aim for a ppO2 of 1 at your target depth. The reason you aim for a ppO2 of 1 is that when you test / calibrate the O2 sensors prior to a dive you can only calibrate them to 100% O2 at atmospheric pressure. When a rebreather is monitoring the ppO2 it's extrapolating from that 1 bar measurement to get the setpoint 1.2 for the meg in this video. I have an AP unit and use a 1.3 setpoint. The duration / endurance is based on the size of the scrubber AND the O2 toxicity. at a 1.3 bar ppO2 setpoint you'll get a 100% O2 tox after three hours. At 1.2 bar ppO2 I think it's about 210 mins / three and a half hours. The AP Inspiration (British made) I use has a 3 hour scrubber. That scrubber duration is calculated using EU models of how much CO2 an average person creates while exercising. As I'm not physically exerting myself to that level during the entire dive not all of the sofnalime (CO2 absorbing chemical) is used by the end of the dive and I am throwing away what might be considered "usable" chemicals at the end of the dive, however it's cheap (enough) and impractical to try and recover that. My rebreather has a 3l cylinder of O2 and I'll generally use ~30 bar (430psi) per hour at the bottom and depending on the depth 20-30 bar ascending. As you ascend the ppO2 drops and the solenoid works hard to maintain the ppO2 at the desired setpoint, while you're busy dumping the volume due to pressure changes. The O2 cylinder is typically filled to 200-220 bar so that will do approximately 3 x 90 min dives, sometimes 4 if I get a good fill (~230bar) and run it down to ~15 bar. The body materialises O2 into C02 at a rate that is dependant on exercise rather than depth. As you go deeper a rebreather becomes more efficient when compared to OC. The absorbent (atleast the one I use, I assume the others are the same) have a mild exothermic reaction to CO2 with one of the byproducts being water, don't worry we're talking a very small amount over the course of a dive. With the chemical reaction producing a little bit of heat and water the breating loop is typically just below body temperature (even in the coolest water) and 100% humidity. As an Open Circuit diver you'll probably have a dry mouth at the end of a dive. As a rebreather diver I won't, if anything I'll want to consider a P-valve. Additionally because the gas I'm breathing is warm and wet rather than frigid and arid that is typical for OC I'll not need quite as much in the way of thermals, my lungs are not constantly warming the breathing gas (or if they are it's by a MUCH smaller amount).
I'm so so happy when I watch you both. I'm not a diver. But the information you present is so fascinating. You make sure to give the correct information and make it so it is understandable. Keep up the great work guys. Still, I think Woody is part fish.
so idk if this is a stupid question but, Why would someone want to use a rebreather that doesn't have a water trap opposed to one with a water trap?? i was just wondering because isnt something like the one featured in this video "safer" than one without??
Just a point to note, They didn't cut any of the hoses, they cut cables and the bottom of the counter lungs. If someone else was covering the cost of the repairs would you be tempted to test the resilience ?
The Meg breaths from right to left, opposite of your KISS. So he was emptying the exhale counterlung 😏. He is doing just what you would do on a KISS but front mounted CL are a much better water trap.
I wonder how easy it is to breathe from them in all different positions. Some units breathe like a dream in one position and then you switch positions and you can’t breathe at all 😂
@@DIVETALK as a matter of fact front CL are the most universal concerning WOB. Specially top of the shoulder. There are many studies and measurements showing the best WOB on front CL. Personally I do not like them, but the WOB is perfect, water trapping is working great and you have your OPV well in reach and can adjust it.
All I have to say is that one hell of a CEO willing to put his life on the line or his product I know there's other ones out there but you ain't sitting underwater if you happen to you know you have to get shot because you have a lot of vest you know kind of went bad and you get shot well you can make it to the hospital something goes totally wrong with this dude he's he's in a hurting situation got to give it to him that's the man that actually puts himself in the line of fire instead of somebody else 🙏
I'd imagine that before doing this video the CEO looked at the state of some of the units that had come in for repair. The computer aka the brains of the unit is inside the scrubber / canister, so cutting the handsets off is like unplugging the keyboard and mouse from your PC, then covering the screen so you can see the clock (so you know it hasn't crashed) The computer is still running. The thing that surprised me was that a number of rebreathers won't let you get in the water with only one cell operating.
I always get the notification for your videos right when you put them out. Whereas with everyone else I'm subscribed to I'll sometimes get the notification for it hours later. Maybe it's the time you post them?
SCR isn’t exactly something I’d do in blue water. It may work in caves were you good a steady depth for awhile, but not so much for a blue water ascent. Also, the 2.0/2.5/2.7 megs only have green and red LEDs. .9 is red, 1.0 is green/red, 1.1 is green
So... Gus and Woody..... As I am not a diver, I don't have a great deal of knowledge about rebreathers or open circuit diving other than the small bit I have learned through this great channel. That said, it seems from your comments that the Megalodon Rebreather system has more safety/backup systems than the KISS ones you guys use. Is the Megalodon unit safer than a KISS unit? If that is the case, why not switch? I know others have mentioned sponsorship as a possible reason, but if it's my ass on the line, I'd personally go with a safer unit, even if a KISS system is still extremely safe. If it is indeed a sponsorship thing, then I would contact another rebreather manufacturer if I was you guys (one that I felt was safer and better than the one I currently used of course). From there I would try and get a new sponsorship deal in place with the new company for your youtube channel.
Question woody an Gus could I use a side mount rebreather for bailout on top of my back mount rebreather???? Please let me know your opinion please an thanx great video
I noticed Douglas Ebersole said the loop runs reverse of most rebreathers. Is it advantageous to run it one way or the other? I can’t see a reason why one company would decide to reverse the loop.
I'm surprised to hear that more people find rebreathers to be a safer option. I've read a lot of articles and watched some videos of it being explained how many things can go wrong with rebreathers and simply not cleaning it properly can kill you. I prefer the idea of rebreathers: less sound, less bubbles, longer time to dive, less tanks but I thought overall the general opinion was that open circuit is considered to be much safer
@@DIVETALK I didn't know that, I was asking because I've been trying to research the difference and those videos failed to mention open circuit being the the backup. Those people were very insistent on re-breathers being a killer and open circuit being safer so I was trying to get a better idea on why that was an inconsistency with what you guys say. I'm a fan of you guys just trying to learn.
"simply not cleaning it properly can kill you" Dropping the second stage of an OC regulator into manure isn't going to do you much good either. Not washing your hands after using the bathroom is also going to have a bad outcome. It's the same point about not cleaning / maintaining your equipment. As an OC diver you won't think about breathing out of you BC. When was the last time you rinsed it out rather than just emptied it? The counter lungs are just really 2 small BC's. As a rebreather diver after I'm done diving for a trip I'll wash out the counter lungs with a disinfectant before storing the rebreather. If the trip is more than a few days then I'll wash them out every 4 or 5 days. Rebreathers have different failure modes that aren't trained to think about let alone deal with. As you have to learn Open Circuit diving and generally have a Nitrox qualification before learning to use a rebreather you're talking about people who are into the sport beyond "I'll do it while I'm on holiday once a year" so there's a safety (from knowledge and experiance) factor just there.
Explain the single O2 cell part? I don't understand what he's going for there. If that cell fails he's gonna tox out or pass out with no warning. Am I missing something?
Did you guys hear about the deceased rebreather diver found in Newcastle harbor Australia a few days ago? Apparently he washed up on the shore with 20 million dollars of cocaine on his person… Seems he was a drug mule and had a rendezvous with a South American ship in the harbour and something went wrong…
I don't know that I would say CCR gives you more options. It just certainly gives you more time to deal with issues like lost line or lost teammate. In OC cave/tech we have an answer for every potential failure and even multiple failures. It isn't as bad as "one first stage breaks and now we exit as fast as possible" In OC the only real emergency is OOG. Everything else is inconvenience.
"In OC the only real emergency is OOG" - When the only tool you have is a hammer most things look like nails. When I was on twins you've got options for first or second stage failure. Turn off on the pillar valves and use the other one. That hardly an OOG situation. You're comparing apples to oranges when you say both "I don't know that I would say CCR gives you more options." and "Everything else is inconvenience.". They are using the word "options" and you're using the word "inconvenience". The point here is that a number of people think that the failures shown are OOG equivalents. You know that many issues are inconveniences that an experienced diver will simply handle. The video is showing that here are some of the issues in the RB world which are also inconveniences that an experienced diver will simply handle and are not the OOG equivalents that an inexperienced diver will make them out to be.
@@DontScareTheFish I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not saying every failure equates to OOG. I'm saying just the opposite. Just about everything that can go wrong on OC is just inconvenient unless you allow it to progress to OOG.
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. In any event, I'm not sure it's fair to point to 15 more potential failures and their fixes and then say "CCR gives you more options".
@@KB-gd6fc I think we're both stating "Just about everything that can go wrong on *C is just inconvenient unless you allow it to progress to ..." You're saying OC and OOG. The video was pointing out that for CC the failure modes are just different that what OC divers have been trained to deal with. That's why I was making the reference to hammers and saying you were comparing apples to oranges. As an OC cave diver you've got to agree that newly qualified open water OC divers wouldn't have a clue what to do in most cave diving situations. I'm pointing out that a very similar knowledge and training gap exists between OC and CC. In terms of some of the failures, I've never seen (or heard of) a free flow with a rebreather, but I've seen a bunch of them with OC.
I absolutely love this book: Blue Mind: The Surprising Science That Shows How Being Near, In, On, or Under Water Can Make You Happier, Healthier, More Connected, and Better at What You Do www.amazon.com/dp/0316252115/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_P0VWRTSQ0MAD6K4JXZ6N Woody
I think, and I do not know if others will agree, that open circuit divers are scared of CCR because of the idea that simply by breathing one could pass out and die. This could be at depth or even on the surface. This will not happen in a working open circuit system as long as the gas is flowing. However, like Woody said, there are more options for troubleshooting on CCR IF THE PERSON HAS RECEIVED PROPER TRAINING. This is just a speculation from my side, personally I would love learning to dive on a CCR system!
Okay, several things: 1. You can’t even buy a rebreather without either being certified on the unit, unless you buy it through an instructor who will be certifying you on it. 2. Breathing out of your rebreather is not dangerous as long as you are monitoring your po2. Just breathing through it is not dangerous at all. Open circuit is dangerous, for example, if you are breathing Nitrox 36 at 130ft you’ll probably have a seizure and drown. If you are breathing a Hypoxic mix like 10/50 near the surface you pass out and drown. There was a death recently of a very experienced open circuit cave diver, who made a mistake at 100 feet and started breathing from his 100% o2 deco bottle and went hyperiox and drowned. So you see, it’s all about following your training and not being complacent. It has nothing to do with the type of diving you are doing, rebreathers or open circuit, but at least you have options with a rebreather.
@@DIVETALK I absolutely understand the physiology of it all, but what I am saying is that many open circuit divers do not. All stories they hear regarding CCR comes from a perspective of lack of understanding. I.e. breathing air at 18 m is not dangerous unless you run out, but a faulty CCR system at any depth is deadly (whether it is by faulty machinery or human error). Many cases of unchecked CO2 buildup for example. Again, this is not necessarily my statement or understanding, but I believe this is what many misinformed open circuit divers do believe. My take away is thank you for informing all divers and non divers alike on CCR!
@@roelofcoertze9453 I don’t know what you mean by “faulty CCR”, I think a “faulty CCR” at any depth is safe. But maybe that’s because I have hundreds of dive on CCR and have had them failed a couple times in the past?
@@DIVETALK I honestly can't speak toward your number of CCR dives. The only point I am trying to get across is that because CCR is not part of the initial training received in basic SCUBA, there is automatically a predisposition toward CCR due to ghost stories that may or may not be true.
Thats great bubble management, but I believe there is options on the market now that demonstrate that this is possible with a few other units on the market and not that much of a wow factor now; mainly the Divesoft CCR. WOULD NOT attempt with a rEvo ever.....
I thought woody would find this pretty interesting... scientist tested octopus DNA the other day and have found they contain no known earthly dna so they may infact be aliens 😅
When you're the CEO of the company that makes the units (as in this case) you're just talking the labour cost of replacing the cables (to the handsets) and a replacement counter lung (which is effectively a small BCD bladder). I'd guess at less than 1K of damages for you or I, obviously much less for the manufacturer as part of a marketing video
If the rebreathers are so much better than OC now, why are they not mainstream and the cost of entry lower? This guy must be a rich guy if he can destroy his toys. I don't have that kind of cash. I see rebreathers as expensive toys right now and for the past 20 years. The Optima CM and KISS are the only ones I see getting closer in price to let more people in. Still can't afford one and the expensive training.
They are getting cheaper but the main thing is that the market is still sooo small and quality standard need to be so high that it's very hard to mass produce them in sufficient numbers that they can bring the costs down. One of the reasons I'm looking at the Kiss Sidewinder is the lower price. The guy from the video is the owner of the company. Surely he believes the good publicity he got from this stunt was worth more than cutting up a demo model.
While rebreathers certainly have specific advantages (like dive time and extended dives at depth), I'd think there are also more things that can go wrong, compared to OC? Hypoxia and hypercapnia are much more likely on rebreathers, I think, and with a double tank setup + stage (same as the bailout bottle with the rebreather), I don't see what situation you could handle with a rebreather and not on OC? It's not really fair to compare a rebreather to a single-everything (tank, valve, first stage) OC setup. Double tank backgas with a stage bottle would be a fair comparison in my opinion, and then the OC would seem safer to me.
Well in order to have a meaningful discussion we need to set a limit on a common setup. Back mount doubles with a stage bottle is definitely not a common “scuba dive setup”, of course you stack bottles and regulators to the point where you could argue that Rebreathers are more dangerous but there’s also people who dive dual rebreathers, but that’s obviously not a common rebreather setup so I won’t bring that up. A few weeks ago a very experienced diver (decades of experience) was diving open circuit and made the mistake of breathing from his 100% o2 deco bottle at 100 feet, that’s a 4.0 PO2, he had a seizure, and died. His main bottles never touched. Could you go Hyperoxix on CCR at 100 feet and drown too? Of course. But to say that open circuit is safer is just not true. For starters, we carry a whole open circuit bailout solution, so even in the case of a catastrophic rebreather failure we can always bail out to open circuit and make it out no problem.
14:19 SCUBA: If my first stage fails, I close it and use the regulator on my redundant first stage, which also supports my gauge, inflator and drysuit hose. If my system fails completely, I use my redundant system mounted on my buddy, which is never more than half an arm's length from me. Going up as fast as possible is not an option. Rather as slowly as you can. Since the air in the lungs expands as you rise, you can always reach the surface (open water) with your last breath at the speed of your bubbles that you keep exhaling getting rid of the CO2.
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This video is an “oldie but a goodie”. By the way, the gas flow in the megalodon rebreather is right to left as opposed to left to right like in most other rebreather. Because of this, when Leon is clearing the flood at the beginning of the video, he is actually clearing the exhale counterlung of the rebreather which is on the left as opposed to the right. This is a great video and shows how robust and “indestructible” the Megalodon is. Congrats to Leon for making it.
I was just going to say that. One of the few breathers that flow the other way. Great video boys!
Makes me wonder if the direction of air flow should be standardized in one direction, it's one less thing to go wrong. I don't know enough about rebreathers to know if this could be a problem or a non issue.
@Rev, Leon’s belief is that since most deaths on ccr are due to hypoxia, being able to add o2 quick with flow being right to left is a safer design then the standard flow of inhale from left to right.
@S M it’s not, most ccr’s have o2 on the exhale side, so it has to go through the scrubber and around to the inhale side before it gets to the diver. Having the o2 on the inhale side means it goes directly to the diver.
@@TomNelson1004 So it's more for training purposes than mechanical ones?
Clarification, ALL rebreathers have "water traps" in the form of counter lungs, which can be flushed. The counter lungs are before the sorb. KISS is the only exception, where the sorb goes before the counter lungs. This design means that the KISS is a bit more streamlined than other rebreathers, but it also means that the exhale-side sorb is the initial trap for anything that comes out of a divers mouth or any water that comes in through the mouthpiece, etc. That's why the exhale-side sorb comes out clumpy.
Next, Meg has reverse flow to KISS. So Woody's explanation about intake/exhaust is incorrect/doesn't apply.
Either way... I've seen this demonstration in the past, something that most new rebreathers (not KISS) can replicate.... but you wouldn't want to. He caused over $1000 worth of equipment damage with that demo. It should also be noted that Meg is an expedition grade eCCR, but there are many many others!
I need like a diving for dummies video. I love watching these videos but have never ever been diving. You guys are amazing at explaining things out.
Me too!
Same
Me too!
If I ever decided to try driving, I’d want Woody and Gus to be my trainers and guides! I’d trust them with my life! They know their stuff!
My mom just passed and I have a ton of medical problems. She knew how bad I wanted to dive need a few more surgeries but my Dr. said there should not be a reason I couldn't start diving by late 2023. you two are my main inspiration. I live in NJ and dividing isn't exactly popular here.
Praying for you! I know you’ll achieve your dreams.
Best of luck to you! May your healing be quick and uncomplicated!
Dividing isn’t popular in Jersey but multiplying is.
Stick with addition
Bless you bro! May you be healed and have a life of adventure underwater in Jesus name!
Great timing. I’m doing my TDI CCR online training to get ready for my ChOptima training in July. This really makes me feel better about going rebreather and even more excited to dive with it.
It's amazing that 1) *he still had emergency backups* to deal with a few more failures and 2) hadn't even started on the alternative air source!
I appreciate all of your videos. You guys are so fun an informative at the same time. This video in particular stands out because I really appreciate this guy doing a torture test on his product, demonstrating its reliability, and puts his personal safety on the line to show us his product is trustworthy (which a quality product is increasingly difficult to find these days, no matter the item).
This is an underrated comment.
So the real question is....would you guys switch rebreathers? I learn from DIVE TALK every time I watch. I've never been diving....I'm quite scared of the water, but that's why I love Dive Talk and Woody and Gus. The comical bantering back and forth is worth the price of admission....just so worth it to watch.
I learned to scuba dive to get over a fear of water and I learned to skydive and fly a plane to get over fear of heights. It all never goes away but it gives you control over the fear and its rewarding. You should try it.
Same here!!!!
They use Kiss because they’re sponsored by them. If they weren’t they probably would use something higher end.
@@boofingenthusiast you're right.....but these other rebreathers are so state of the art....next level equipment. I'm almost positive that Woody and Gus would love to try those out.
@@shAnn0n1 i don't agree. Otherwise the equipment they have is obsolete I think they wouldn't change for anything. Practice and comfort I think is key in something like diving.
That lake is where I did some of my scuba certification dives. It had a little ice on it when I went diving.
Awesome video! Rebreathers are awesome, and definitely offer more options when problems occur. A note though... at 5:50 in, it was said that the “left side” is the inhale side for rebreathers. This is not the case for all rebreathers. My Triton mCCR, a chest mounted unit, is the opposite. The exhale side is the left, and the inhale side is the right. Several other units are this way, including several other chest mounted O2 units. ☺️👍🏻 I would add, that if water gets into my unit, it goes into the exhale side, not the inhale side (water wont go that way due to the mushroom valve, aka check valve). If water goes into my loop, it goes into the exhale side, and I can drain it down into my exhale side lung, open my OPV, and flush it out.
I'm on the AP with the exhale on the right. The exhale counter lung (no matter the loop direction) is the most likely place for water to pool in as the most common place for tiny amounts of water ingress is around the lips.
You are my discovery of 2022, in the past i always say i never go diving in my life, its like my biggest fear but just by watching your vidéo you change my mind completely ! Keep going the great work your content is amazing !
I love you guys and I love your videos. I am not even a scuba diver. As a matter of fact, I don’t think I’ve even gone swimming in the last 15 years. But I sure do love learning about all this stuff and I sure do love the way you present it all. I so look forward to your videos. As a matter of fact, I just checked about an hour ago and didn’t see anything. Now I do… Let’s go watch some video with Gus and Woody!!!!
This comment made me realize just how long it's been since I went swimming too. (Probably more than 5 or 6 years at this point) Now I have to fix that!
Very impressive video and commentary. You guys knocked it out of the park again. Thanks.
Dive safe.
I remember this video, what a gem glad u guys picked it up and have a solid review
I’m a leisure diver and probably will be too afraid to do cave diving… but I love watching your videos! They are just so informative and you both really take effort to explain to those who may not have basic knowledge on diving at all. I learnt so much from your videos. 👍
I’ve only done a little diving but in respect to your theory that rebreathers are safer I’ve always looked at it that since you’re carrying an open circuit system with you as a rebreather diver then you immediately have an extra system that some diving with just open circuit doesn’t. Maybe I’m not right on that and if not I’d love to know why but common sense tells me that if your main system fails having an entirely new second rig is inherently safer than just diving with one?
Yes, but you can't just consider whether you have a backup if it fails (completely) as one can always have twin (or more) independent tanks with independent regulators. What new additional or alternative way to fail (/kill) are there, and is the risk of that greater than the risk you face from an average open circuit setup?
You can always take redundancy with you. Some rec divers run dual sidemount tanks but it's not common. I think the thing with a rebreather is you get hours of dive time. After watching a ton of these disaster videos lots of deaths come from running out of air/getting complacent and not checking. Rebreathers have their own issues like flooding, po2 oxygen toxicity etc but i think for guys experienced like dive talk the extra time is worth it.
I think the bigger problem comes with the depths you can dive at with a rebreather, when you switch to oc you don’t have enough air to get up, I’ve only done a hand full of oc dives so I’m only guessing here, fascinating though.
@@streetmtb It's only when you're REALLY deep (90msw+) that becomes and issue. When you dive on a rebreather you plan for all your decompression to be on OC (as well as CC) and you take that amount of gas. for 50m+ (160ft) dives I've got 1x7l deep bail out (to get me to the shallows), not sure how bug that is in CuFt, probably about 50 and 1x11l with Nx50 for shallow water deco (18m / 60ft). The larger tank is an AL80.
When you're deeper than 70m (230ft) Carrying enough gas becomes cumbersome and it's a group effort in most situations
Back once again with one of those block rockin rebreather videos.
This is like me "strength testing" the insulated wire on an old neon sign 🤣 maybe not quite so bad...
You can tell it’s old video by the generic overused background music being used XD. That sound track brings back so many early 2000s memories. But more importantly, I have zero knowledge of rebreathers and thought they were a death trap and I didn’t know how it recycled air and I couldn’t find too much in depth online but this answered so much and made me realize how safe they can be. I had the misconception that they hadn’t changed from the original rebreathers that could explode
Such an informative video. Makes me want to go diving everytime I watch one.
I’m so glad you guys explain. I always wanted to try diving but have epilepsy and probably never be able to. So it’s cool watching y’all
Remember the CEO of a ballistic vest company who let someone shoot him with a handgun point blank? A CEO who will stake his life on the product has earned my money.
Can you make a video of why you guys prefer KISS rebreathers vs others? I'm curious to why you chose that brand?
It's pretty incredible how much damage that unit took and kept on working. This on top or the other benefits ccr provides, definitely has persuaded me that it might be worth investing in whenever I reach the point where it's financially viable.
Definitely impressive performance. I'm also looking at buying a rebreather in a year or two. Did a tryout on a Kiss Sidewinder last year and was so impressed. Just need to remind myself that rebreathers won't save me money.
@@Yggdrasil42 If you're regularly at depths that you'd use trimix they will end up being cheaper than OC simply because of how expensive helium is. If you're only at Nitrox depths, then yes they are more expensive
I'm CURIOUS what are say 5 features other than the big obvious non flooding loop type things, maybe more out there, extravagant things that you could or would like to see on rebreathers in maybe 15 20 years from now?
From the other side of kinda same question, what are the largest problems or inconveniences you'd like to see solutions for?
Hi Gus and Woody, just want to say that you guys are awesome and I love the content! I've been listening to your videos while I work and I'm learning so much about diving. I'm living vicariously through your stories and hope some day to learn diving myself. 😀
You guys are both awesome humans, love the videos!
Do you guys have any stories to tell about people that have dealt with a flooded canister and getting a mouthful of caustic solution? It sounds at minimum exceedingly unpleasant.
The only time I've had a caustic solution of any sort (a long time ago now) was when the canister flooded and the battery compartment also flooded. The caustic solution was from the battery rather than the absorbant. I use the molecular products Sofnolime 797 in an AP unit
You guys are awesome, been watching you all for a while. My father and I are planning on getting certified soon!!
I’m a caver and I have a friend who is a certified cave diver who pushes the siphons. Makes us super anxious but he’s broken into crazy passage and even un flooded a cave system via removing a clogging of glacial debris.
This is kind of a morbid question. When a diver goes missing, is there more hope they are alive when on a rebreather than open circuit?
Speaking of rebreathers, I had no idea there were different types of breathers until this video! Would love to see the breakdown of different rebreather types , or i should say systems rather like hybrid/ mccr and ur take on the pros and cons?
Also if you're looking for a reaction suggestion. "Cave Exploring Gone WRONG | The Plura Cave Disaster" from scary interesting on youtube i would recommend. It was well presented and raised some interesting questions. one of them is in the video they were on rebreathers and they also carried a "backup rebreather with open circuit gas" I'm not sure if the presentator was mistaken or not since from watching this video, if a rebreather has water its d.o.a. for the most part. How would you successfully use a backup rebreather on a 5+ hour(ended up being 11 hours with deco)??
There's only really 2 rebreather types Closed Circuit Rebreather (CCR) and Semi Closed-Circuit Rebreather (SCR). Don't get a SCR. it's REALLY not worth it. There's a bunch of manufacturers of Closed Circuit.
I'd need a rebreather with as many assists as possible. I'll take all I can get.
I think you gotta lean more into the HUD systems. Every person who loves video games will be lining up to be a part of something where they finally get a HUD.
I believe the direction of flow on the Meg is right to left, so he cut his exhale counterlung?
Have a good week Dive Talk fam.
Great videos. Im learning so much.
Always so good to hear your commentary on these types of videos. Is there a reason why the KISS doesn't have a water trap? Is it to keep it to a smaller size so you can use it in tighter spaces/cave restrictions, or some other reason(s)?
If you scroll down a bit somebody explained that it's for streamlining reasons. But the counterlungs will still catch some water.
@@MegaFPVFlyer Many thanks - found the comment you referred to, which notes the KISS has the counterlung after the sorb. Really interesting stuff.
Lake crescent is one of the prettiest lakes you will ever see above water
Haha Dive shop next to my PT Office, You guys are great teachers btw. Thanks for the information. Glad I'm getting interested in this.
Yeah, an oldie but a goodie, in the diving world, again super cool video, even to folks like us that learn alot about your great work and craft.....
Lake Cresent is beautiful. I would love to dive there.
A water trap is a simple mechanic device, We use fluid traps in our labs for the vacuum pumps. Since rebreathers are highly engineered i thought this would be standard gimmic. It blows my mind it isnt.
Are there people that only use, or reasons why, one might bring only a rebreather and no "open circuit" setup? So that you can only rely on the rebreather and have no bail out option? or is that simply never done?
Maybe in the military where some units dive oxygen only rebreathers that are forced to dive no deeper than 20 feet.
I've known people who took at look at the gas requirements for OC bail out (we're talking quite extreme stuff) and decided a second rebreather was the only viable bailout.
So as a neophyte that has never scuba before, you mentioned you had to relearn how to scuba when training for the rebreather. Would you advise learning rebreather first then open circuit? Or learn basic scuba on open circuit first and then go rebreather when you're experienced?
No. Being an Open Circuit diver is a pre-requisite to learn to dive rebreathers.
Hey gus and woody I love your channel and content, I have never dove before but I would love to learn and potentially move to cave diving ..any suggestions? Also can I start on a re-breather or would I need to be open circuit certified first?
Good video. It will be nice when rebreathers get to a price point that many of us mere mortals can handle. But good for those who’ve “made it” I suppose.
We have a really good friend who earns minimum wage and own a Sidewinder and goes cave diving all the time.
Every dollar he earns goes towards diving (after paying bills), so it’s definitely doable you just have to make sacrifices.
So good! Another awesome video of technical information! This answered a bunch of curiosities and questions I've had about rebreather diving. Though, and I gotta just look it up, what I'm still unsure about is how specialised gas mixtures are introduced into a rebreather loop - or actually whether there always needs to be a small tank of oxygen to replace the little bit that is metabolised, so effectively "gone". Is PPO2 a measure of oxygen being added to the loop to compensate, or the oxygen available after exhaled air is scrubbed of CO2?
It’s measured after the CO2 has been scrubbed
@S M Cool, thanks! So I gather that's how specialised gas mixtures are used with CCRs as well - the O2 bottle is just replaced by trimix or whatever?
Is it the life of the scrub or the volume of that O2 supply that determines the theoretical maximum time a CCR can produce breathable air?
@@PBeringer You have a bottle of 100% O2 that is typically injected as needed by a computer controlled solenoid.
In terms of gasses, I'm going to assume you're Nitrox Qualified (or you'll lookup any terms you don't understand). You really need a Nitrox qualification to understand partial pressures and the different types of O2 toxicity.
You also have a bottle of diluent which can be Air, Nitox (but I don't see why anyone would use Nitrox), Trimix (helium + Air + O2 ) or Helox (helium + O2). Generally you aim for a ppO2 of 1 at your target depth. The reason you aim for a ppO2 of 1 is that when you test / calibrate the O2 sensors prior to a dive you can only calibrate them to 100% O2 at atmospheric pressure. When a rebreather is monitoring the ppO2 it's extrapolating from that 1 bar measurement to get the setpoint 1.2 for the meg in this video. I have an AP unit and use a 1.3 setpoint.
The duration / endurance is based on the size of the scrubber AND the O2 toxicity. at a 1.3 bar ppO2 setpoint you'll get a 100% O2 tox after three hours. At 1.2 bar ppO2 I think it's about 210 mins / three and a half hours. The AP Inspiration (British made) I use has a 3 hour scrubber. That scrubber duration is calculated using EU models of how much CO2 an average person creates while exercising. As I'm not physically exerting myself to that level during the entire dive not all of the sofnalime (CO2 absorbing chemical) is used by the end of the dive and I am throwing away what might be considered "usable" chemicals at the end of the dive, however it's cheap (enough) and impractical to try and recover that.
My rebreather has a 3l cylinder of O2 and I'll generally use ~30 bar (430psi) per hour at the bottom and depending on the depth 20-30 bar ascending. As you ascend the ppO2 drops and the solenoid works hard to maintain the ppO2 at the desired setpoint, while you're busy dumping the volume due to pressure changes. The O2 cylinder is typically filled to 200-220 bar so that will do approximately 3 x 90 min dives, sometimes 4 if I get a good fill (~230bar) and run it down to ~15 bar.
The body materialises O2 into C02 at a rate that is dependant on exercise rather than depth. As you go deeper a rebreather becomes more efficient when compared to OC. The absorbent (atleast the one I use, I assume the others are the same) have a mild exothermic reaction to CO2 with one of the byproducts being water, don't worry we're talking a very small amount over the course of a dive. With the chemical reaction producing a little bit of heat and water the breating loop is typically just below body temperature (even in the coolest water) and 100% humidity.
As an Open Circuit diver you'll probably have a dry mouth at the end of a dive. As a rebreather diver I won't, if anything I'll want to consider a P-valve. Additionally because the gas I'm breathing is warm and wet rather than frigid and arid that is typical for OC I'll not need quite as much in the way of thermals, my lungs are not constantly warming the breathing gas (or if they are it's by a MUCH smaller amount).
Off the topic question but does anyone know what the most technically advanced cave dive is (where you have to no mount at depth etc...)?
I'm so so happy when I watch you both. I'm not a diver. But the information you present is so fascinating. You make sure to give the correct information and make it so it is understandable. Keep up the great work guys. Still, I think Woody is part fish.
Love you guys content !!!! 😎🔥🙏🏻
The twin meg rebreather is quality!
so idk if this is a stupid question but, Why would someone want to use a rebreather that doesn't have a water trap opposed to one with a water trap?? i was just wondering because isnt something like the one featured in this video "safer" than one without??
Can u explain what a rebreather is?
I paid $13,000 for my Prism 2 ccr, I'm not ever going to go under water and cut it up, not the hoses, not any part of it. LOL
I don't blame you
Just a point to note, They didn't cut any of the hoses, they cut cables and the bottom of the counter lungs.
If someone else was covering the cost of the repairs would you be tempted to test the resilience ?
The Meg breaths from right to left, opposite of your KISS. So he was emptying the exhale counterlung 😏. He is doing just what you would do on a KISS but front mounted CL are a much better water trap.
I wonder how easy it is to breathe from them in all different positions. Some units breathe like a dream in one position and then you switch positions and you can’t breathe at all 😂
@@DIVETALK as a matter of fact front CL are the most universal concerning WOB. Specially top of the shoulder. There are many studies and measurements showing the best WOB on front CL. Personally I do not like them, but the WOB is perfect, water trapping is working great and you have your OPV well in reach and can adjust it.
All I have to say is that one hell of a CEO willing to put his life on the line or his product I know there's other ones out there but you ain't sitting underwater if you happen to you know you have to get shot because you have a lot of vest you know kind of went bad and you get shot well you can make it to the hospital something goes totally wrong with this dude he's he's in a hurting situation got to give it to him that's the man that actually puts himself in the line of fire instead of somebody else 🙏
I'd imagine that before doing this video the CEO looked at the state of some of the units that had come in for repair.
The computer aka the brains of the unit is inside the scrubber / canister, so cutting the handsets off is like unplugging the keyboard and mouse from your PC, then covering the screen so you can see the clock (so you know it hasn't crashed) The computer is still running.
The thing that surprised me was that a number of rebreathers won't let you get in the water with only one cell operating.
Very interesting and educational for a non diver 👍
I always get the notification for your videos right when you put them out. Whereas with everyone else I'm subscribed to I'll sometimes get the notification for it hours later. Maybe it's the time you post them?
No idea, but glad it’s working for you!
i always thought that was only on my conservative sights?
SCR isn’t exactly something I’d do in blue water. It may work in caves were you good a steady depth for awhile, but not so much for a blue water ascent.
Also, the 2.0/2.5/2.7 megs only have green and red LEDs.
.9 is red, 1.0 is green/red, 1.1 is green
Boys just a heads up the Meg rebreather inhale is on the right Hand side NOT the left hand side ...
Yep
Didn't Gus have a failure during his final DPV certification dive? Can't remember what the issue was though.
I did. A major one. And I was able to finish my tow safely and got certified. That’s how safe rebreathers are.
You guys should take a look at the TH-cam page called scary interesting, they have a diving segment for diving gone wrong! Maybe do a react
Great video, thanks
Very interesting!
So... Gus and Woody..... As I am not a diver, I don't have a great deal of knowledge about rebreathers or open circuit diving other than the small bit I have learned through this great channel. That said, it seems from your comments that the Megalodon Rebreather system has more safety/backup systems than the KISS ones you guys use. Is the Megalodon unit safer than a KISS unit? If that is the case, why not switch? I know others have mentioned sponsorship as a possible reason, but if it's my ass on the line, I'd personally go with a safer unit, even if a KISS system is still extremely safe. If it is indeed a sponsorship thing, then I would contact another rebreather manufacturer if I was you guys (one that I felt was safer and better than the one I currently used of course). From there I would try and get a new sponsorship deal in place with the new company for your youtube channel.
Question woody an Gus could I use a side mount rebreather for bailout on top of my back mount rebreather???? Please let me know your opinion please an thanx great video
I noticed Douglas Ebersole said the loop runs reverse of most rebreathers. Is it advantageous to run it one way or the other? I can’t see a reason why one company would decide to reverse the loop.
Not really, it’s like Porsches with the ignition switch on the left of the steering wheel…not sure why they did that but that’s how they did it.
@@DIVETALK I’ve never seen this video before, pretty cool.
Am I correct in concluding that rebreather training is AFTER becoming proficient in open circuit?
Yes
I'm surprised to hear that more people find rebreathers to be a safer option. I've read a lot of articles and watched some videos of it being explained how many things can go wrong with rebreathers and simply not cleaning it properly can kill you. I prefer the idea of rebreathers: less sound, less bubbles, longer time to dive, less tanks but I thought overall the general opinion was that open circuit is considered to be much safer
How is open circuit safer than rebreathers when we carry a full open circuit system with us as a backup?
What's the backup of Open Circuit? CPR.
@@DIVETALK I didn't know that, I was asking because I've been trying to research the difference and those videos failed to mention open circuit being the the backup. Those people were very insistent on re-breathers being a killer and open circuit being safer so I was trying to get a better idea on why that was an inconsistency with what you guys say. I'm a fan of you guys just trying to learn.
@@moysauce788 those people are not rebreather divers.
"simply not cleaning it properly can kill you" Dropping the second stage of an OC regulator into manure isn't going to do you much good either. Not washing your hands after using the bathroom is also going to have a bad outcome. It's the same point about not cleaning / maintaining your equipment. As an OC diver you won't think about breathing out of you BC. When was the last time you rinsed it out rather than just emptied it?
The counter lungs are just really 2 small BC's. As a rebreather diver after I'm done diving for a trip I'll wash out the counter lungs with a disinfectant before storing the rebreather. If the trip is more than a few days then I'll wash them out every 4 or 5 days.
Rebreathers have different failure modes that aren't trained to think about let alone deal with. As you have to learn Open Circuit diving and generally have a Nitrox qualification before learning to use a rebreather you're talking about people who are into the sport beyond "I'll do it while I'm on holiday once a year" so there's a safety (from knowledge and experiance) factor just there.
Woody & Gus How do you know that you are narc or how narc can you handle ?
So fascinating!
Explain the single O2 cell part? I don't understand what he's going for there. If that cell fails he's gonna tox out or pass out with no warning. Am I missing something?
Did you guys hear about the deceased rebreather diver found in Newcastle harbor Australia a few days ago? Apparently he washed up on the shore with 20 million dollars of cocaine on his person… Seems he was a drug mule and had a rendezvous with a South American ship in the harbour and something went wrong…
Really interesting thank you xxxx
I don't know that I would say CCR gives you more options. It just certainly gives you more time to deal with issues like lost line or lost teammate. In OC cave/tech we have an answer for every potential failure and even multiple failures. It isn't as bad as "one first stage breaks and now we exit as fast as possible"
In OC the only real emergency is OOG. Everything else is inconvenience.
"In OC the only real emergency is OOG" - When the only tool you have is a hammer most things look like nails.
When I was on twins you've got options for first or second stage failure. Turn off on the pillar valves and use the other one. That hardly an OOG situation.
You're comparing apples to oranges when you say both "I don't know that I would say CCR gives you more options." and "Everything else is inconvenience.". They are using the word "options" and you're using the word "inconvenience".
The point here is that a number of people think that the failures shown are OOG equivalents. You know that many issues are inconveniences that an experienced diver will simply handle.
The video is showing that here are some of the issues in the RB world which are also inconveniences that an experienced diver will simply handle and are not the OOG equivalents that an inexperienced diver will make them out to be.
@@DontScareTheFish I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not saying every failure equates to OOG. I'm saying just the opposite. Just about everything that can go wrong on OC is just inconvenient unless you allow it to progress to OOG.
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. In any event, I'm not sure it's fair to point to 15 more potential failures and their fixes and then say "CCR gives you more options".
@@KB-gd6fc I think we're both stating "Just about everything that can go wrong on *C is just inconvenient unless you allow it to progress to ..."
You're saying OC and OOG. The video was pointing out that for CC the failure modes are just different that what OC divers have been trained to deal with.
That's why I was making the reference to hammers and saying you were comparing apples to oranges.
As an OC cave diver you've got to agree that newly qualified open water OC divers wouldn't have a clue what to do in most cave diving situations. I'm pointing out that a very similar knowledge and training gap exists between OC and CC.
In terms of some of the failures, I've never seen (or heard of) a free flow with a rebreather, but I've seen a bunch of them with OC.
@@KB-gd6fc CCR gives you more options because it gives you more time. When you’re out of time you’re out of options.
What's the thing Guz wears in front of his eyes? Looks like a night vision device 👍🏼
I don’t know if you did this already because you have so much content, but could you give us some good diving nonfiction book recommendations?
I absolutely love this book:
Blue Mind: The Surprising Science That Shows How Being Near, In, On, or Under Water Can Make You Happier, Healthier, More Connected, and Better at What You Do www.amazon.com/dp/0316252115/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_P0VWRTSQ0MAD6K4JXZ6N
Woody
Is inner space systems related to inner space explorers?
I don’t think so
LEADS? OR L-E-D LOL
Why no more edd?
I think, and I do not know if others will agree, that open circuit divers are scared of CCR because of the idea that simply by breathing one could pass out and die. This could be at depth or even on the surface. This will not happen in a working open circuit system as long as the gas is flowing. However, like Woody said, there are more options for troubleshooting on CCR IF THE PERSON HAS RECEIVED PROPER TRAINING. This is just a speculation from my side, personally I would love learning to dive on a CCR system!
Okay, several things:
1. You can’t even buy a rebreather without either being certified on the unit, unless you buy it through an instructor who will be certifying you on it.
2. Breathing out of your rebreather is not dangerous as long as you are monitoring your po2. Just breathing through it is not dangerous at all. Open circuit is dangerous, for example, if you are breathing Nitrox 36 at 130ft you’ll probably have a seizure and drown. If you are breathing a Hypoxic mix like 10/50 near the surface you pass out and drown. There was a death recently of a very experienced open circuit cave diver, who made a mistake at 100 feet and started breathing from his 100% o2 deco bottle and went hyperiox and drowned.
So you see, it’s all about following your training and not being complacent. It has nothing to do with the type of diving you are doing, rebreathers or open circuit, but at least you have options with a rebreather.
@@DIVETALK I absolutely understand the physiology of it all, but what I am saying is that many open circuit divers do not. All stories they hear regarding CCR comes from a perspective of lack of understanding. I.e. breathing air at 18 m is not dangerous unless you run out, but a faulty CCR system at any depth is deadly (whether it is by faulty machinery or human error). Many cases of unchecked CO2 buildup for example. Again, this is not necessarily my statement or understanding, but I believe this is what many misinformed open circuit divers do believe.
My take away is thank you for informing all divers and non divers alike on CCR!
@@roelofcoertze9453 I don’t know what you mean by “faulty CCR”, I think a “faulty CCR” at any depth is safe. But maybe that’s because I have hundreds of dive on CCR and have had them failed a couple times in the past?
@@DIVETALK I honestly can't speak toward your number of CCR dives. The only point I am trying to get across is that because CCR is not part of the initial training received in basic SCUBA, there is automatically a predisposition toward CCR due to ghost stories that may or may not be true.
@@roelofcoertze9453 that is a fact
Thats great bubble management, but I believe there is options on the market now that demonstrate that this is possible with a few other units on the market and not that much of a wow factor now; mainly the Divesoft CCR. WOULD NOT attempt with a rEvo ever.....
@DIVETALK how does a fella send in a video recommendation
I thought woody would find this pretty interesting... scientist tested octopus DNA the other day and have found they contain no known earthly dna so they may infact be aliens 😅
I’m a beginner but I would like to learn more with you
Where did you get this video?
Would you want a water catch on a kiss rebreather, how come they don't have that feature?
We don’t want that.
@@DIVETALK how come? I'm not s diver I would think a extra safety feature would be nice ?
I wish I had a teacher in high school thst was like Woody.
Just got my head around the rebreather have no intention of ever using one to techy for me and u got to be certified to use one says it all 🙄
Nice way to kill 10k bucks
When you're the CEO of the company that makes the units (as in this case) you're just talking the labour cost of replacing the cables (to the handsets) and a replacement counter lung (which is effectively a small BCD bladder).
I'd guess at less than 1K of damages for you or I, obviously much less for the manufacturer as part of a marketing video
If the rebreathers are so much better than OC now, why are they not mainstream and the cost of entry lower? This guy must be a rich guy if he can destroy his toys. I don't have that kind of cash. I see rebreathers as expensive toys right now and for the past 20 years. The Optima CM and KISS are the only ones I see getting closer in price to let more people in. Still can't afford one and the expensive training.
They are getting cheaper but the main thing is that the market is still sooo small and quality standard need to be so high that it's very hard to mass produce them in sufficient numbers that they can bring the costs down. One of the reasons I'm looking at the Kiss Sidewinder is the lower price.
The guy from the video is the owner of the company. Surely he believes the good publicity he got from this stunt was worth more than cutting up a demo model.
He explains it. Destructive testing or destructive physical analysis. Engineering stuff.
All that. Technical stuff fried my 79yo brain,,,😎
Megalodon is the best, i want one 😢
🦀
While rebreathers certainly have specific advantages (like dive time and extended dives at depth), I'd think there are also more things that can go wrong, compared to OC? Hypoxia and hypercapnia are much more likely on rebreathers, I think, and with a double tank setup + stage (same as the bailout bottle with the rebreather), I don't see what situation you could handle with a rebreather and not on OC?
It's not really fair to compare a rebreather to a single-everything (tank, valve, first stage) OC setup. Double tank backgas with a stage bottle would be a fair comparison in my opinion, and then the OC would seem safer to me.
Well in order to have a meaningful discussion we need to set a limit on a common setup. Back mount doubles with a stage bottle is definitely not a common “scuba dive setup”, of course you stack bottles and regulators to the point where you could argue that Rebreathers are more dangerous but there’s also people who dive dual rebreathers, but that’s obviously not a common rebreather setup so I won’t bring that up.
A few weeks ago a very experienced diver (decades of experience) was diving open circuit and made the mistake of breathing from his 100% o2 deco bottle at 100 feet, that’s a 4.0 PO2, he had a seizure, and died. His main bottles never touched. Could you go Hyperoxix on CCR at 100 feet and drown too? Of course. But to say that open circuit is safer is just not true.
For starters, we carry a whole open circuit bailout solution, so even in the case of a catastrophic rebreather failure we can always bail out to open circuit and make it out no problem.
He is probably tired of being married
HI 👋 GUYS 👦
14:19 SCUBA: If my first stage fails, I close it and use the regulator on my redundant first stage, which also supports my gauge, inflator and drysuit hose. If my system fails completely, I use my redundant system mounted on my buddy, which is never more than half an arm's length from me. Going up as fast as possible is not an option. Rather as slowly as you can. Since the air in the lungs expands as you rise, you can always reach the surface (open water) with your last breath at the speed of your bubbles that you keep exhaling getting rid of the CO2.
That isn't really an option when you have 30 mins of mandatory deco due to the depth and time you've just dived to
@@DontScareTheFish --> Open Water, not Deco