This was such a good video. I really appreciated how you took us through in real time how you were going for a particular sound and how things were affecting each other, this was great! Brought more of the "play" into engineering than the "science".
Great video! Stereo compression is an invaluable tool, but I also really love multi-mono/unlinked compression for stereo source processing. It sounds a lot wider to me and more representative of the source compared to stereo compression, in most cases. You may have to calibrate or get finicky with your controls if you're using hardware, but the result always wins out against stereo compression for me. Years ago, I got into the habit of setting ridiculous limitations for myself when mixing to help hone my skills. On a particular day when I had decided I could only use parallel compression, I accidentally clicked a multi-mono version of a compressor and it became immediately evident how useful a tool it was for spreading out the stereo image. Regardless of whether or not the settings were matched, I was able to deduce that the varying, and more importantly independent, levels of compression happening in those L and R channels was creating the effect of width - that which did not exist when I would switch to a stereo version of the same plugin with the same settings. Of course, the foundations of your choices should still guide you, much in the way this video exemplifies. As mixers, each process we apply to the music should serve a need. And I've always been a huge fan of being able to check 2 or more things off with one process. The unlinked compression, and it's ability to add width, was another one to add to that list of back-pocket tools.
So Helpful! I was getting my overheads pretty decent, but always felt they were troubling when in the mixing process. I think this now solved that problem and will make mixing much quicker and an overall better mix.
Good video. From my experience usually, higher attack makes drum appear closer to you in the field. Also, with faster attack times, try listen past inevitable gain decrease.
Of course! Glad ya got that goin' on,....makes a huge difference, on lots of different tracks as well !...Old school radio broadcast tools brother ! I do a lot of radio jingles, in southern California, USA....I will not continue, without a Teletronix LA-2A.....I have 2 !!! :)
Love your videos and have been watching them a lot recently, picking up a few tips for our band so that once we finally get around to self recording a demo I have an idea on how to do what we want and describe "how" it should sound!
Well, sure Rock I guess. This was just a stupid mic test that I gave very little though too, but I really liked how the mics sounded so I kept it. You're right, I don't do a lot of soft drums and should.
That was great! Much more in depth on attack and release and why than most tutorials. I personally like the Slate FG-401 or the Waves API 2500 for the job.
This is something I am just starting to be able to hear - similar to beginning to hear altered dominants or "demented" chords. It helps a lot to be able to hear and see an example while you are explaining it! I would like to learn more about adding "crunchiness" with a compressor. I'm guessing this is (at least somewhat) a product of fast release times? Perhaps in conjunction with some element of saturation from the amplification stage of the circuit? Thanks!
I tend to leave my OHs uncompressed to keep the attack completely. Instead of compressing, check if you need it first. Sometimes sustain is not as important as the transient itself.
Yeah, it's a really good combo. I think I am also getting used to having a stereo compressor, so it's nice to finally hear some overheads paired in compression.
Good job on video here. SSL G (outboard) 4/1 30 att auto release pretty much does it for me. Maybe lower attack for some room sound but only for parallel blending.
Yeah, I think the compression really made it though. It's like A plus B made it work. First stereo outboard compressor too, so that could be part of it.
sounds like you are using a compressor that acts like two mono compressors. You need a compressor that compresses both channels if the drummer hits the floor tom. That's the case here, and the stereo image doesn't get messed up.
This is killer. Thanks Ryan, would love more of these type of videos. Do you have any resources on how you process all your drum tracks on the way in? EQ, compression, etc...on all the tracks you typically use it on before it hits tape/DAW?
Do you ever use the WA76s for compressing overheads? I have a Lindell stereo 1176-style compressor in my 500 rack, been thinking of trying them on my overheads, wondering if they'd be too aggressive for that application.
I’m curious at what stage in your workflow you opt to use your outboard compressor like this. If during mixing, do you do another round trip D/A/D conversion and print to a new track?
Anything that will work in stereo can be used, but I always listen to how well it handles fast releases. Some of the compressors sound really jagged and rough, while others have a really nice and smooth sound to them....like when you hear mostly the room sound of the snare. I like the UAD 1176s, and the 33609 as well.
Thanks so much. I had a channel go bad on this unit, but to get honest, I'm not sure it wasn't the cabling. The problem was intermitent, but I hope it was the cabling. Was working fine the other day.
The problem for me is that I just don't hear it while I'm dialing all these knobs in the DAW. When you're writing and recording a song, doing the mixing and mastering afterwards is really hard because you get used to how it sounds and you can't reset your ears.
Yeah, that's true. Try to work fast and try to listen at low volumes. Like really low. It's easier to hear compression when you turn it down. OR if it's mixed in with a bunch of other tracks and you can tell how it's getting skwashed.
Great tutorial!!! But I have a question... I generally play and mix heavy rock music. Due to the speed and "busyness" of it, I use the overheads as cymbal mics, by high passing anywhere from 300-600hz. In addition, the snare sound is usually minimized using L2 so that the compression is working on the cymbals and not the snare, and then the room mics give the overall kit sound. In this case, would I still use this same technique to dial in the compression? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!
Sounds like you already are using these same techniques. Just keep doing what you are doing and listen at low volumes to tell how much your compressing. It's always easier to tell at low monitor volumes.
I think i would use this technique on your room mic. It would give you a bigger and fat sounding drum track. Maybe a lil bit more exagerated on the ratio. Cheers!
Hi Ryan. I'm curious how you get that smooth low end on the Overheads. I recently recorded a project and the the low end of the OHs werent nice at all and I ended up rolling most of it off but I would prefer not to so to achieve a more natural drum sound. Would you say its simply a combination of the room and drum kit? I've been using pencil condensors, were you using large diaphrams? Thanks!
I was using SDCs for this, and in a medium size room. It's most likely the room, then the drums, and then the drummers playing. The compression brings it out a little more when it squashes the high end.
Ya know, I have heard, and followed, folks say they get most of their drum sound from the OHs and then use spot mics to fill in as needed. Is that the opposite of your approach? I ask cause you were talking about tucking the OH's. Or were you talking about tucking it in the mix? Also, how do you like the creme? Do you have any other bus compressors? How does it compare to them? I assume its a SSL type thing? Great video
I usually use the OH to build out the sound of the drums, and they are around 60% of the sound. With SDCs though, they can't be as much, as a lot of the low end has to come from the close mics. My quick comment on tucking in the OH was in reference to a big mix and compression would give you options to hear the sustain of the cymbals but not have to have it that loud. The Creme is nice, and still learning it and what it is good at.
Without getting into discussing the hundreds of software compressors available, would you say a comp with a 2:1 ratio is probably the most important thing to look for?
This compressor sounds uh-mazing. And these OH tracks. But I think most settings with the attack on 3 a little bit overdo the job on taming the transients. The initial snare crack is kinda gone. The drums do sound huge though. What mics did you use?
Yeah, I recommend not going to far, or "tickling the meter" as I mentioned. You might be right on those attack times, but again, this was just for the start of a discussion and inspiration for everyone. For overheads, you really have to listen at low volumes, AND in context to see how it will blend. Most of the time, it can be too aggressive and you can adjust to taste. It's easy to go too far. Part of learning compression is cranking it, and then dialing it back, so I had it cranked.
Van Allen RIGHT, I've watched the whole thing. Missed the whole thing about the mics somehow. Paid more attention to the drum sounds. Better reserve this cocky and funny stuff to girls in bars, thanks
Hey Ryan great work btw learning alot. I am new to recording in my home. I was curious if you had a suggestion on overhead mics on a budget? I see tons of sites and they all have a different opinion, I know there are many to choice from though if you coulld reccomend 1 or 2 I woulld much appreciate it. I know you are busy. Thank dude hope you have a great day and keep up the great work!
I would go with ribbons, such as the bumblebee 1.8 micro ribbons. You put them together yourself and ribbons are the key to a good drum overhead sound.
hey Ryan, Ive been watching your videos for a long time and it really helped me a lot, specially the drums series cuz Im a Drummer and I record my drums in my Home. So there are 2 things that are getting me Crazy, this last year I was able to Buy some good quality microphones and sometimes I feel that there is something wrong with my snare it feels that I always need to get the faders up to plus 5 db to get them in the correct level of the mix and the rest of my kit is running close to minus 5. Phase is checked. Still about the snare is dificult to get a nice bottom sound for me, maybe is the mic position. So if you have any extra tips about snare recording, both mics the up and bottom maybe their relation with the over heads in the compression and eq it would be awesome. Thanks a lot for your videos. (Im sorry for the bad English, Im Brazilian and my automatic correction sometimes put me in awkward situations)
Yeah, I think that part of the issue is that you need more sustain out of the drum. And not floor tom sustain, but quick and thick sustain that comes from a combination of microphones. Most of my drum sounds are a combination of several mics (See my how to mic a snare video on that, about a year and half ago), and this can mean that the snare mic is sometimes not very loud at all. The close snare mic can be used for the attack, and then the overheads can fill in the more natural picture, and natural sound of the drum. Compression helps as it makes the drum sound fatter and bigger. If I had to take a guess, I would say it's that you are using a bright overhead, and in a room that has a low ceiling. Meaning that all the lows are just from the close mic. If you do it right, you should have more low end than you know what to do with, and you'll need to thin it out.
actually right now Im using a pair of AT2020 as overheads, my room has 2.40m of height. Do you mean that I would have to clean the low end of my over heads only or all os my mics ?
That compressor sounds amazing. Here's where you tell me it's way out of my range......but it really does sound nice. I still prefer the simplicity and overall sweetness of a pair of LA3A's on OH's or on the entire drum mix, but this is the shiznit right here.
hey Ryan, another great vid that I missed the first time for some reason. I have a question: how does this method interact in a mixing scenario when you are also compressing your kick and your snare? Should you generally (and I understand that the obvious answer is "use your ears") compress the kick and snare less if you are crushing the overheads more?
It really depends. I usually go to smooth over the transient of the snare in the overheads, and same thing with the close mic on snare. But you really have to feather both attacks of the compressor to make sure it works and in the context of the other elements. I just did a mix with a flabby snare and the overheads was a nice source that I could use a slow attack with in order to get some snap back in the snare drum that I couldn't with the close mic no matter how much I tried.
Hello ! Do we need to compress anything outside of the voice ? I find tracks mixed and eq'd really good. The drum is especially strong in a mix, I would tend to not compress it.
"Listen at a lower volume, and you'll hear the compression better." This is such a deep tip!!
Love me a deep tip
@@Spencergundersenmusic 🤨📸
@@GalliumEnergy hey wait delete that screenshot
This was such a good video. I really appreciated how you took us through in real time how you were going for a particular sound and how things were affecting each other, this was great! Brought more of the "play" into engineering than the "science".
Yeah that's a really good point. Tell you what I'm hearing as I hear it.
What a good sounding compressor!
Owen Denchy yeah seriously! Sounded good in the cranked settings
This is one of the best of these types of videos I've ever seen. Thank you.
Thanks Kyle and you're welcome.
Great video! Stereo compression is an invaluable tool, but I also really love multi-mono/unlinked compression for stereo source processing. It sounds a lot wider to me and more representative of the source compared to stereo compression, in most cases. You may have to calibrate or get finicky with your controls if you're using hardware, but the result always wins out against stereo compression for me. Years ago, I got into the habit of setting ridiculous limitations for myself when mixing to help hone my skills. On a particular day when I had decided I could only use parallel compression, I accidentally clicked a multi-mono version of a compressor and it became immediately evident how useful a tool it was for spreading out the stereo image. Regardless of whether or not the settings were matched, I was able to deduce that the varying, and more importantly independent, levels of compression happening in those L and R channels was creating the effect of width - that which did not exist when I would switch to a stereo version of the same plugin with the same settings. Of course, the foundations of your choices should still guide you, much in the way this video exemplifies. As mixers, each process we apply to the music should serve a need. And I've always been a huge fan of being able to check 2 or more things off with one process. The unlinked compression, and it's ability to add width, was another one to add to that list of back-pocket tools.
thanks man great video love that you just show it again and again with it playing, thanks
I regret looking up the cost of that compressor.
This is actually a pretty good video. For once i can hear what he's talking about. Thanks.
I'm glad I got a chance to listen to more of your drummin'.. cool video, thanks!
So Helpful! I was getting my overheads pretty decent, but always felt they were troubling when in the mixing process. I think this now solved that problem and will make mixing much quicker and an overall better mix.
Nice, thanks, and I hope this helps!
Good video. From my experience usually, higher attack makes drum appear closer to you in the field. Also, with faster attack times, try listen past inevitable gain decrease.
Great point!
Thank you for very informative lesson👍❤️
That Tegeler unit is crazy good
Of course! Glad ya got that goin' on,....makes a huge difference, on lots of different tracks as well !...Old school radio broadcast tools brother ! I do a lot of radio jingles, in southern California, USA....I will not continue, without a Teletronix LA-2A.....I have 2 !!! :)
Yeah the LA2A just makes it easy. It helps to have the right tools.
You're awesome man, thanks from Atico Records (Buenos Aires - Argentina)
Sure thing man!
Love your videos and have been watching them a lot recently, picking up a few tips for our band so that once we finally get around to self recording a demo I have an idea on how to do what we want and describe "how" it should sound!
Nice Rex, let me know how it turns out man!
Great video. I feel like i understand compression now. I am new to recording. Thank you!
Great vid as always! It seems you do a lot of rock sounding drums, I would love to see a video on getting a real phat huge vintagey sound
Well, sure Rock I guess. This was just a stupid mic test that I gave very little though too, but I really liked how the mics sounded so I kept it. You're right, I don't do a lot of soft drums and should.
That was great! Much more in depth on attack and release and why than most tutorials. I personally like the Slate FG-401 or the Waves API 2500 for the job.
Thanks! Glad it was helpful. Yeah, I have been trying the Slate stuff recently, but still am getting use to the metering on the compressors.
This is so helpful! Thank you!
This is something I am just starting to be able to hear - similar to beginning to hear altered dominants or "demented" chords. It helps a lot to be able to hear and see an example while you are explaining it!
I would like to learn more about adding "crunchiness" with a compressor. I'm guessing this is (at least somewhat) a product of fast release times? Perhaps in conjunction with some element of saturation from the amplification stage of the circuit?
Thanks!
I tend to leave my OHs uncompressed to keep the attack completely. Instead of compressing, check if you need it first. Sometimes sustain is not as important as the transient itself.
Tegeler nice... Really Créme compressor and with the quality of recorded OH drums = really sweet honest sound. Dynamics love here !!
Yeah, it's a really good combo. I think I am also getting used to having a stereo compressor, so it's nice to finally hear some overheads paired in compression.
Looks like you got a new toy? I never seen you use that Tegeler before. I was really hoping to hear the eq on that box...maybe another video!
Best explanation I've seen.
love this video
Good job on video here. SSL G (outboard) 4/1 30 att auto release pretty much does it for me. Maybe lower attack for some room sound but only for parallel blending.
Thanks!
Hello. I can't find anywhere a video where you talk step by step how to check the phase issues on drums, did you delete it?
The Su 013s really sound sweet
Amazing
Yeah, I think the compression really made it though. It's like A plus B made it work. First stereo outboard compressor too, so that could be part of it.
Sweet sounding oh's man. how were they mic'd?
How do you retain panned Tom's? Stereo effects including comp wash the sound out and destroy my pans.
sounds like you are using a compressor that acts like two mono compressors. You need a compressor that compresses both channels if the drummer hits the floor tom. That's the case here, and the stereo image doesn't get messed up.
@@creativesoundlab thanks. I'm using the built in comps on my old vs2480. It does it with reverb too. It seems the effects don't follow the pans.
This is killer. Thanks Ryan, would love more of these type of videos. Do you have any resources on how you process all your drum tracks on the way in? EQ, compression, etc...on all the tracks you typically use it on before it hits tape/DAW?
Great video, sir
Thanks!
I would've like to seen how the mics were angled, how high too.
Do you ever use the WA76s for compressing overheads? I have a Lindell stereo 1176-style compressor in my 500 rack, been thinking of trying them on my overheads, wondering if they'd be too aggressive for that application.
Very nice video I like the drum tuning and the room :-) If you were to use a plugin which one would it be for the OHs honestly?
on point as always!
Thanks!
I’m curious at what stage in your workflow you opt to use your outboard compressor like this. If during mixing, do you do another round trip D/A/D conversion and print to a new track?
Thank you
Every 6 months, I come back to this video and dream of this compressor.....
Save $100 a month and in less than two years you can buy it
Great comp vid , if you were going to work in the box what comp do you like
Anything that will work in stereo can be used, but I always listen to how well it handles fast releases. Some of the compressors sound really jagged and rough, while others have a really nice and smooth sound to them....like when you hear mostly the room sound of the snare. I like the UAD 1176s, and the 33609 as well.
incredible thank you!!
Your Welcome!
Damn thats a fuc*** awesome compressor....Well i guess i have to sell my dbx, 20 times to get one of this :).... Btw. great explanation.. Well done
Thanks so much. I had a channel go bad on this unit, but to get honest, I'm not sure it wasn't the cabling. The problem was intermitent, but I hope it was the cabling. Was working fine the other day.
I absolutely love this video. Thank you so much! What snare and heads do you use? Love your sound man. Great drumming too.
The problem for me is that I just don't hear it while I'm dialing all these knobs in the DAW. When you're writing and recording a song, doing the mixing and mastering afterwards is really hard because you get used to how it sounds and you can't reset your ears.
Yeah, that's true. Try to work fast and try to listen at low volumes. Like really low. It's easier to hear compression when you turn it down. OR if it's mixed in with a bunch of other tracks and you can tell how it's getting skwashed.
Great tutorial!!! But I have a question... I generally play and mix heavy rock music. Due to the speed and "busyness" of it, I use the overheads as cymbal mics, by high passing anywhere from 300-600hz. In addition, the snare sound is usually minimized using L2 so that the compression is working on the cymbals and not the snare, and then the room mics give the overall kit sound. In this case, would I still use this same technique to dial in the compression? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!
Sounds like you already are using these same techniques. Just keep doing what you are doing and listen at low volumes to tell how much your compressing. It's always easier to tell at low monitor volumes.
I think i would use this technique on your room mic. It would give you a bigger and fat sounding drum track. Maybe a lil bit more exagerated on the ratio. Cheers!
Thank You Brother
Hi Ryan. I'm curious how you get that smooth low end on the Overheads. I recently recorded a project and the the low end of the OHs werent nice at all and I ended up rolling most of it off but I would prefer not to so to achieve a more natural drum sound. Would you say its simply a combination of the room and drum kit? I've been using pencil condensors, were you using large diaphrams?
Thanks!
I was using SDCs for this, and in a medium size room. It's most likely the room, then the drums, and then the drummers playing. The compression brings it out a little more when it squashes the high end.
Quality content
Fantastic, thanks!
you are my favorite. can't thank you enough!
Thank you so much!
Ya know, I have heard, and followed, folks say they get most of their drum sound from the OHs and then use spot mics to fill in as needed. Is that the opposite of your approach? I ask cause you were talking about tucking the OH's. Or were you talking about tucking it in the mix? Also, how do you like the creme? Do you have any other bus compressors? How does it compare to them? I assume its a SSL type thing? Great video
I usually use the OH to build out the sound of the drums, and they are around 60% of the sound. With SDCs though, they can't be as much, as a lot of the low end has to come from the close mics. My quick comment on tucking in the OH was in reference to a big mix and compression would give you options to hear the sustain of the cymbals but not have to have it that loud. The Creme is nice, and still learning it and what it is good at.
Do you know which crashes you were using for this demo? Specifically the deeper crash, the one that's hit first? It sounds SO good!
Ty Del Rose the crash at 0:34 is a 18 inch Zildjian K Custom Dark. Never polished and is about 14 years old.
this was amazing
Thanks!
Without getting into discussing the hundreds of software compressors available, would you say a comp with a 2:1 ratio is probably the most important thing to look for?
I would think that 4:1 is more common
which cymbals were used?
:)
Great video! After a treatment like this, do you find occasion to add any limiting to catch any peaks that slip past the compressor?
Not really. I less I can do to the audio, and less number of plug ins, the better the mix will be.
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
This compressor sounds uh-mazing. And these OH tracks. But I think most settings with the attack on 3 a little bit overdo the job on taming the transients. The initial snare crack is kinda gone. The drums do sound huge though.
What mics did you use?
Yeah, I recommend not going to far, or "tickling the meter" as I mentioned. You might be right on those attack times, but again, this was just for the start of a discussion and inspiration for everyone. For overheads, you really have to listen at low volumes, AND in context to see how it will blend. Most of the time, it can be too aggressive and you can adjust to taste. It's easy to go too far. Part of learning compression is cranking it, and then dialing it back, so I had it cranked.
Yes, Soyuz SU-013 spaced pair, about 4.5 feet equidistant from the snare.
Van Allen RIGHT, I've watched the whole thing. Missed the whole thing about the mics somehow. Paid more attention to the drum sounds. Better reserve this cocky and funny stuff to girls in bars, thanks
Hey Ryan great work btw learning alot. I am new to recording in my home. I was curious if you had a suggestion on overhead mics on a budget? I see tons of sites and they all have a different opinion, I know there are many to choice from though if you coulld reccomend 1 or 2 I woulld much appreciate it. I know you are busy. Thank dude hope you have a great day and keep up the great work!
I would go with ribbons, such as the bumblebee 1.8 micro ribbons. You put them together yourself and ribbons are the key to a good drum overhead sound.
Creative Sound Lab awesome thanks dude I really appreciate you taking the time keep up the great job!
Do you use conditioner?
hey Ryan, Ive been watching your videos for a long time and it really helped me a lot, specially the drums series cuz Im a Drummer and I record my drums in my Home. So there are 2 things that are getting me Crazy, this last year I was able to Buy some good quality microphones and sometimes I feel that there is something wrong with my snare it feels that I always need to get the faders up to plus 5 db to get them in the correct level of the mix and the rest of my kit is running close to minus 5. Phase is checked. Still about the snare is dificult to get a nice bottom sound for me, maybe is the mic position. So if you have any extra tips about snare recording, both mics the up and bottom maybe their relation with the over heads in the compression and eq it would be awesome. Thanks a lot for your videos. (Im sorry for the bad English, Im Brazilian and my automatic correction sometimes put me in awkward situations)
Yeah, I think that part of the issue is that you need more sustain out of the drum. And not floor tom sustain, but quick and thick sustain that comes from a combination of microphones. Most of my drum sounds are a combination of several mics (See my how to mic a snare video on that, about a year and half ago), and this can mean that the snare mic is sometimes not very loud at all. The close snare mic can be used for the attack, and then the overheads can fill in the more natural picture, and natural sound of the drum. Compression helps as it makes the drum sound fatter and bigger. If I had to take a guess, I would say it's that you are using a bright overhead, and in a room that has a low ceiling. Meaning that all the lows are just from the close mic. If you do it right, you should have more low end than you know what to do with, and you'll need to thin it out.
actually right now Im using a pair of AT2020 as overheads, my room has 2.40m of height. Do you mean that I would have to clean the low end of my over heads only or all os my mics ?
It's cool, I'm here, you can start now.
Haha, like clockwork.
That compressor sounds amazing. Here's where you tell me it's way out of my range......but it really does sound nice. I still prefer the simplicity and overall sweetness of a pair of LA3A's on OH's or on the entire drum mix, but this is the shiznit right here.
its nice to just watch somebody turn the nobs
hey Ryan, another great vid that I missed the first time for some reason. I have a question: how does this method interact in a mixing scenario when you are also compressing your kick and your snare? Should you generally (and I understand that the obvious answer is "use your ears") compress the kick and snare less if you are crushing the overheads more?
It really depends. I usually go to smooth over the transient of the snare in the overheads, and same thing with the close mic on snare. But you really have to feather both attacks of the compressor to make sure it works and in the context of the other elements. I just did a mix with a flabby snare and the overheads was a nice source that I could use a slow attack with in order to get some snap back in the snare drum that I couldn't with the close mic no matter how much I tried.
Hello !
Do we need to compress anything outside of the voice ?
I find tracks mixed and eq'd really good. The drum is especially strong in a mix, I would tend to not compress it.
always saving my ass