Hey everyone, here are some things that comments and viewers have notified me of: Penance is a WOTLK talent. I am still working on not being nervous on the mic, and sorry for the misinformation. Shadow word death, is the DPS that a disc priest brings to the table, my apolgies for the fail there. REMINDER: These talent trees are by NO MEANS the law. They are what I have been testing, ranking with, and experimentation with other shamans in the TBC shaman discord.
My guild needed me to run an Ele Shaman and was dreading my viability in pvp. You hide your nervousness very well, I understood you clearly and I learned a lot,thank you!😁
Such an amazing guide, thanks for everything, especially tips and tricks. I wish I had stomp, but hey, being an orc is still decent I guess with blood fury change and 15% stun resist.
@Trorren TBC hey , nice vid:) im gonna start play ele in pvp but i thought Orc is way better then tauren. So i got my Orc 70 but im tired to level a new one. Do u think Orc can be good too ??
Hi Trorren! Great video! I really enjoyed it. Question: Whats your view on the Fire, Frost and Nature resistance totems? I've mostly played vanilla pvp as elemental and I usually pop frost resistance against mages in 1v1s or in battlegrounds. Now in TBC, whether in Arena, BG's or Open world pvp, do you ever use your resistance totems in?
This is really amazing video. I love the totem management. Seems like it could be a lot of fun actually. With TBC coming up I am wondering whether to go Tauren or Orc. I can see the appeal for the war stomp ability to give the shaman some much needed CC capability, but does it outweigh the Orc stun resist? I honestly won't do a lot of arena as I'll be playing with my S.O. for the most part, but I definitely want to do some pvp - most will be BG's. Anyway, thanks for the content. It's great to find someone covering such overlooked but dynamic class. The meta focusing so much on rogues really can take steam away from wanting to pvp. Will be around for more content.
What an amazing video! My big question since I’m looking at shaman. This go around I want to pve focus with a side of pvp. Subject to change. Ele has me interested. I hear it starts off great but just keeps falling off. The other thing is I hear it starts off great then gets stale but picks back up toward the end. Which of the following would be true? I have never played a shaman. Most classes I play scale better as the expansion goes on like a warrior. So a reverse of that feels like it could be horrrible. Thanks
Great questions. Ele is always a tough spec to play in PVP. very high skill cap, and there are no popular streamers in the niche that ACTUALLY know what they are doing when they are talking about ele. My opinion (after reaching 1800 so far, is that ele needs to be played with a well practiced team. It is not an easy comp to play. I might get alot of hate for this, but there are easier comps to play like WLD or WRD. With ele, you need to play to your top skill even at lower brackets if you want to rank. As for it fallling off, the reason why popular streamers say this is because of spell coefficients etc. Simply not true. It does get more difficult as melee classes get armor pen, but not becuase your class is "falling off" Ele is viable, but very difficult, end of story. As you can see, this is a passion of mine, one that I hope to share in a video as well.
@@TrorrenTBC thanks for getting back to me so fast. I enjoyed binge watching your videos last night. Now is that as far as pve also or strictly pvp talk? I understand a spot is almost open for them for the buffs they bring. Do they fall off hard in pve? I don’t want to be doing slightly more dmg then the tank if that makes sense later on in TBC. Back when I played I remember them being hit or miss depending on the “pilot” of the toon. Thanks
Thanks. I watched a couple times. Little confused on the rotation. It sounded like you said Nova Totem, Stomp, Blood fury, Nature Swiftness, Boom, Earth Shock. Why would you NS an instant cast spell? Couod you write it out. You kinda sped up the important part.
NS does not get consumed by earth shock, so you can pre pop it in case you need to interrupt something. But generally the full burst rotation is lighting bolt > nova totem > Elemental mastery CL > NS lightning bolt> shock. Usually hits for a total of 9k plus in a couple of global. Depending on crits and procs of course
Great question. This is known as "thundercleave" and is mostly played later in wow. However, in TBC it is highly crippled by the lack of instant ghost wolf as ele. The ele shaman will usually end up being the kill target, and due to the warriors lack of mobility, cross cc is more simple to land. If you want to play with a warr and a druid, I would recommend either Turbo (you as enhance) or going resto for a more aggressive resto shammy to make sure you maintain the mobility. (resto shammies get instant ghost wolf normally) Does that help?
@@TrorrenTBC Kinda what I expected tbh :D Familiar with thundercleave later on in wow. Still going to try it :D Though not with a druid since dont see that working. Either disc priest or hpala, the team need dispel magic. Survive, give wf, purge and burst. Being tunneled is a lifestyle for ele shamans.
@@Uragen The most real line on this channel "Being tunneled is a lifestyle" Love that, going on my wall. Let me know how it goes, I might give it a go this week, i agree with your healer choice, I would recommend a pally who knows how to play as they can open you up for solid burst and give warriors freedom.
I ve played shaman for months. Since P6 i m élémental for both pve & PvP ( i m bis P6) . I wonder wich spec i should play for TBC. I know elemental is a beast for pve, but i have doubts about PvP. Your vid is a nice point of vew anyway.
I'm wondering, how does the Elemental Shields talent work exactly? As written, it's not a pure damage decrease, here's what it says : Reduces the chance you will be critically HIT by melee and ranged attacks by 6%. (So no spell crit affected). From there I see multiple possibilities : First and least probable, reduces the chances to hit, so no hit cap on melee and ranged crits. Second, reduces the chances to crit. Those two are what are best interpreted as written. The third is a pure 6% decrease on damage from crits but don't really correspond to the talent's wording. And if it's the third, I think putting 3 points in it isn't worth it at all. First, it's only effective against : Hunters, Warriors, Rogues, Feral Druids, Enhancement Shamans and Paladins (not sure how it interracts with Judgements and Seal damage) And even then, the 6% damage reduction on crits is laughable. On a 2000 melee crit, you would only reduce the damage by 120. I think the 3 points could be spent elsewhere. Same for Elemental Precision, with the 3% from Restoration and your gear, you should have enough Hit for PvP, that's another point I believe you could use on some other talent.
Now this is some fire feed back. How I interpret the talent, is that for melee and ranged critical hits, i get a 6% decrease in damage from that source. As per your example, a crit of 2000, is a decrease of about 120. The reason I take this, is other classes especially in tier 3, are focusing heavily on crit. First and foremost, rogues. I take this talent becuase over the length of one game, ill take 10-15k crit damage. This would be a 500-700 reduction in damage (not exact math, but you see my point.) I take this to help against the classes main weakness which is a rogue. Where would you put the three points if you could select another spot? And good point on the hit, I will make that correction.
@@TrorrenTBC Well I guess we'll have to test it once TBC is out, duel a Rogue friend without the talent and have him crit you a 100 times, take notes of the numbers, put 3 points in the talent, repeat and compare. For sure the talent helps a little with survival and I guess Rogue matchups could end up being harder or easier depending on your comp, so maybe take this talent once you know what your arena partner is? If I take away the 3 points from Elemental Shields and 1 point from Elemental Precision I get 4 points to spare so... I'm thinking of diminishing even more the CD of Shock spells with 2 points in Reverberation. Doesn't seem like much, but sometimes you're frustrated getting your Earth Shock back just as soon as the enemy finishes his cast. Doesn't happen that often but it can be a life saver. I've considered the Call of Flame talent too for an increase of up to 15% damage on Searing totem poke or Fire Nova totem burst, but the numbers aren't that great. You could get a faster Nova totem with the 2 points improvement, which could help with poke but it's an expensive totem to cast mana-wise, even with the reduced cost from Restoration. And I'm not sure the full burst timing would be as good. But I still think it has some uses. The one I'm considering, and it will require some testing, is Earth's Grasp 2 points talent. I'm thinking the upgraded range on Earthbind totem could actually reach some interesting spots for kiting . In the end, it will all depend on how exactly the Elemental Shield talent works, because as much as I think the -6% damage reduction is meh, it still has its uses, but oh boy, if it's a decrease in chances to hit or chances to crit, this is a winner.
@@Blueneoh Good points. Im posting a different spec today with some gameplay, i am finding that your point about comp SPECIFIC is SO true. The game I played with a disc priest made me feel like I was wearing plate, so that was amazing.
@@TrorrenTBC Thats not how the talent works XD It does what it says it reduces chance to being criticaly hit by melee&ranged which means if hunter has 40% crit chance, agaist you hes going to have 34% crit chance.
@@tomhevy9246 Hm, Im going to playtest this, after speaking with several of the other shamans in the shaman discord, there is a split in how it is in game. One of those things that will become clear as we progress into classic.
Is ele sham in arena really as bad as everyone is making it out to be? I want to be competitive and at least have the chance to push for shoulders but the spec seems really interesting to me. I avoided feral druid in classic despite it looking fun because on paper it just couldnt compete, I dont want to have to jump ship after my research phase again but i may end up finding something else to play.
TO be frank: Ele is very difficult, and is niche. You will have a difficult time against meta comps unless you are well trained, and with good team mates that are going to have to work twice as hard to get their wins. Is ele bad? No. Is it hard? Yes. Does that make it bad? Up to you.
I'm confused on why you are recommending 5% spell hit in the talents. As far as I'm aware the hit cap is only 3% in pvp. So i would suggest taking the 2% hit in elemental tree and then gearing for an extra 1%. This allows you to either pick up the crit armor talent or healing pushback talents.
It really is, it just depends on first, what you enjoy, and also what you want to do IN pvp. Elemental is hard, but you certainly have your work cut out for you. Resto is VERY good, and Enhance can work but very COMP SPECIFIC. Does that make sense? Would a video explanation help?
i dont agree on the fact that is the worst pvp spec , i feel like Ele work very well in PVP the only probleme is the cast time i feel like ngl if we had more haste would be better this is why in wrath they get super good
I personally see alot of potential for ELE in 5's and BG's but for 2v2 and 3v3, you end up getting shut down SO easily. Im posting a video today that is going to go over this.
I played 3s in the top 10 in warmane Back in the Outland days as ele, frostmage, disc. We actually beat many strong Teams, locks were bs far the biggest Problem. Melees were freeloot, even rogues died so fast
@@chronostasis1250 Yea ill be uploading a video soon with that exact comp! Finals are right now, hence the absence from content. But they are in the work! (My fave comp so far is Frost mage/ele/disc)
Hey everyone, here are some things that comments and viewers have notified me of:
Penance is a WOTLK talent. I am still working on not being nervous on the mic, and sorry for the misinformation. Shadow word death, is the DPS that a disc priest brings to the table, my apolgies for the fail there.
REMINDER: These talent trees are by NO MEANS the law. They are what I have been testing, ranking with, and experimentation with other shamans in the TBC shaman discord.
This TBC shaman discord that you mention, can you provide a link to it pretty please?
@@jonas1247 Will do asap, let me get permission to do so from the moderators, but im sure they will be thankful!
My guild needed me to run an Ele Shaman and was dreading my viability in pvp. You hide your nervousness very well, I understood you clearly and I learned a lot,thank you!😁
Such an amazing guide, thanks for everything, especially tips and tricks. I wish I had stomp, but hey, being an orc is still decent I guess with blood fury change and 15% stun resist.
First subscriber. Great video. Thanks
Thanks for keeping up to date on it! Anything in particular you would like to see?
Also i realize now that earthbind is on one of my invisible bars. That is a HUGE totem. Sorry about that.
Thank you for making this 🙏
Hi Trorren!
Great Video!
What's the Name from the "earth shock ready !" addon?
@Trorren TBC hey , nice vid:) im gonna start play ele in pvp but i thought Orc is way better then tauren. So i got my Orc 70 but im tired to level a new one. Do u think Orc can be good too ??
100% orc is amazing. I just prefer Tauren personally
Great video! Plenty of good tips that I’ll Will use 😁✌️
Awesome video, thank you!
Thank you!
thanks for the video :) Im about to main elemental in arena .. Hope ill git gud!
Solid guide lad, I know you say you get nervous on the mic but its not really noticeable. Keep up the good work! (one shaman player to another)
I appreciate it man! Love your content. Watched a lot while I was playing my retail shamm.
Awesome video this is really going to help me when i roll ele shaman come tbc
glad you think so man! Creating more like these right now!
Thanks for the video, can you please, share the link of the faint cast video?
I believe he means my video which is th-cam.com/video/PhIos9Wg5zc/w-d-xo.html
P.S thanks for the shoutout mate
hey Trorren great content! was wondering if you can link that totem range weak aura i cant seem to find it!
Hi Trorren! Great video! I really enjoyed it. Question: Whats your view on the Fire, Frost and Nature resistance totems? I've mostly played vanilla pvp as elemental and I usually pop frost resistance against mages in 1v1s or in battlegrounds. Now in TBC, whether in Arena, BG's or Open world pvp, do you ever use your resistance totems in?
Great videos mate, I'm playing elemental shaman for TBC! Can you please link that video about fake casting?
This is really amazing video. I love the totem management. Seems like it could be a lot of fun actually.
With TBC coming up I am wondering whether to go Tauren or Orc. I can see the appeal for the war stomp ability to give the shaman some much needed CC capability, but does it outweigh the Orc stun resist?
I honestly won't do a lot of arena as I'll be playing with my S.O. for the most part, but I definitely want to do some pvp - most will be BG's.
Anyway, thanks for the content. It's great to find someone covering such overlooked but dynamic class. The meta focusing so much on rogues really can take steam away from wanting to pvp.
Will be around for more content.
Thanks for the comment!
Yea it seems alot of people are talking about the tauren/orc debate.
Ill make a video on that one for sure
Welcome!
What an amazing video! My big question since I’m looking at shaman. This go around I want to pve focus with a side of pvp. Subject to change. Ele has me interested. I hear it starts off great but just keeps falling off. The other thing is I hear it starts off great then gets stale but picks back up toward the end. Which of the following would be true? I have never played a shaman. Most classes I play scale better as the expansion goes on like a warrior. So a reverse of that feels like it could be horrrible. Thanks
Great questions.
Ele is always a tough spec to play in PVP. very high skill cap, and there are no popular streamers in the niche that ACTUALLY know what they are doing when they are talking about ele.
My opinion (after reaching 1800 so far, is that ele needs to be played with a well practiced team. It is not an easy comp to play. I might get alot of hate for this, but there are easier comps to play like WLD or WRD. With ele, you need to play to your top skill even at lower brackets if you want to rank.
As for it fallling off, the reason why popular streamers say this is because of spell coefficients etc. Simply not true. It does get more difficult as melee classes get armor pen, but not becuase your class is "falling off" Ele is viable, but very difficult, end of story.
As you can see, this is a passion of mine, one that I hope to share in a video as well.
@@TrorrenTBC thanks for getting back to me so fast. I enjoyed binge watching your videos last night. Now is that as far as pve also or strictly pvp talk? I understand a spot is almost open for them for the buffs they bring. Do they fall off hard in pve? I don’t want to be doing slightly more dmg then the tank if that makes sense later on in TBC. Back when I played I remember them being hit or miss depending on the “pilot” of the toon. Thanks
@@specterfire1439 If you gear correctly and run with the punches, you should be just fine through all phases for PVE. the above was for PVP
Thanks. I watched a couple times. Little confused on the rotation. It sounded like you said Nova Totem, Stomp, Blood fury, Nature Swiftness, Boom, Earth Shock. Why would you NS an instant cast spell? Couod you write it out. You kinda sped up the important part.
NS does not get consumed by earth shock, so you can pre pop it in case you need to interrupt something. But generally the full burst rotation is lighting bolt > nova totem > Elemental mastery CL > NS lightning bolt> shock.
Usually hits for a total of 9k plus in a couple of global. Depending on crits and procs of course
Nice guide. I was wondering what the gear was you are wearing. Is it all honor gear?
Nice guide video. But what can you do if you have enemy a warlock and do curse of tongue? Also a rogue with kick ,2x blind etc ?
That is a great question. Ill make a video about how to play against counters
Could you make a video about how to gear as an elemental shaman in PvP in each phase?
For sure. Great idea
@@TrorrenTBC thanks. Gear, gems, and enchants in each phase have always confused me greatly.
Leeeeeeeeeets go!
how do you deal with warlocks that use felhunter + curse of tongues?
Sadly, you simply dont. You need to be playing with a druid or a mage for that de curse. Felhunter can be dealt with but the curse cannot
How do you feel playing 3s with war heal? Espescially with playing semidouble healer mindset
Great question. This is known as "thundercleave" and is mostly played later in wow. However, in TBC it is highly crippled by the lack of instant ghost wolf as ele. The ele shaman will usually end up being the kill target, and due to the warriors lack of mobility, cross cc is more simple to land. If you want to play with a warr and a druid, I would recommend either Turbo (you as enhance) or going resto for a more aggressive resto shammy to make sure you maintain the mobility. (resto shammies get instant ghost wolf normally) Does that help?
@@TrorrenTBC Kinda what I expected tbh :D Familiar with thundercleave later on in wow. Still going to try it :D
Though not with a druid since dont see that working. Either disc priest or hpala, the team need dispel magic.
Survive, give wf, purge and burst. Being tunneled is a lifestyle for ele shamans.
@@Uragen The most real line on this channel "Being tunneled is a lifestyle" Love that, going on my wall.
Let me know how it goes, I might give it a go this week, i agree with your healer choice, I would recommend a pally who knows how to play as they can open you up for solid burst and give warriors freedom.
I ve played shaman for months. Since P6 i m élémental for both pve & PvP ( i m bis P6) . I wonder wich spec i should play for TBC. I know elemental is a beast for pve, but i have doubts about PvP. Your vid is a nice point of vew anyway.
Thanks!
Lock ele druid will likely be very strong. Lots of cc/ heals and ele gives the burst to net kills.
For sure, love having a lock on the team
If i go 40/0/21 will i get yelled at in dungeons/raids for not having Totem of Wrath?
yep. raid casually and you wont
I'm wondering, how does the Elemental Shields talent work exactly?
As written, it's not a pure damage decrease, here's what it says :
Reduces the chance you will be critically HIT by melee and ranged attacks by 6%. (So no spell crit affected).
From there I see multiple possibilities :
First and least probable, reduces the chances to hit, so no hit cap on melee and ranged crits.
Second, reduces the chances to crit.
Those two are what are best interpreted as written.
The third is a pure 6% decrease on damage from crits but don't really correspond to the talent's wording.
And if it's the third, I think putting 3 points in it isn't worth it at all. First, it's only effective against : Hunters, Warriors, Rogues, Feral Druids, Enhancement Shamans and Paladins (not sure how it interracts with Judgements and Seal damage)
And even then, the 6% damage reduction on crits is laughable. On a 2000 melee crit, you would only reduce the damage by 120.
I think the 3 points could be spent elsewhere.
Same for Elemental Precision, with the 3% from Restoration and your gear, you should have enough Hit for PvP, that's another point I believe you could use on some other talent.
Now this is some fire feed back.
How I interpret the talent, is that for melee and ranged critical hits, i get a 6% decrease in damage from that source. As per your example, a crit of 2000, is a decrease of about 120.
The reason I take this, is other classes especially in tier 3, are focusing heavily on crit. First and foremost, rogues. I take this talent becuase over the length of one game, ill take 10-15k crit damage. This would be a 500-700 reduction in damage (not exact math, but you see my point.) I take this to help against the classes main weakness which is a rogue.
Where would you put the three points if you could select another spot? And good point on the hit, I will make that correction.
@@TrorrenTBC Well I guess we'll have to test it once TBC is out, duel a Rogue friend without the talent and have him crit you a 100 times, take notes of the numbers, put 3 points in the talent, repeat and compare.
For sure the talent helps a little with survival and I guess Rogue matchups could end up being harder or easier depending on your comp, so maybe take this talent once you know what your arena partner is?
If I take away the 3 points from Elemental Shields and 1 point from Elemental Precision I get 4 points to spare so... I'm thinking of diminishing even more the CD of Shock spells with 2 points in Reverberation. Doesn't seem like much, but sometimes you're frustrated getting your Earth Shock back just as soon as the enemy finishes his cast. Doesn't happen that often but it can be a life saver.
I've considered the Call of Flame talent too for an increase of up to 15% damage on Searing totem poke or Fire Nova totem burst, but the numbers aren't that great.
You could get a faster Nova totem with the 2 points improvement, which could help with poke but it's an expensive totem to cast mana-wise, even with the reduced cost from Restoration. And I'm not sure the full burst timing would be as good. But I still think it has some uses.
The one I'm considering, and it will require some testing, is Earth's Grasp 2 points talent. I'm thinking the upgraded range on Earthbind totem could actually reach some interesting spots for kiting .
In the end, it will all depend on how exactly the Elemental Shield talent works, because as much as I think the -6% damage reduction is meh, it still has its uses, but oh boy, if it's a decrease in chances to hit or chances to crit, this is a winner.
@@Blueneoh Good points. Im posting a different spec today with some gameplay, i am finding that your point about comp SPECIFIC is SO true. The game I played with a disc priest made me feel like I was wearing plate, so that was amazing.
@@TrorrenTBC Thats not how the talent works XD It does what it says it reduces chance to being criticaly hit by melee&ranged which means if hunter has 40% crit chance, agaist you hes going to have 34% crit chance.
@@tomhevy9246 Hm, Im going to playtest this, after speaking with several of the other shamans in the shaman discord, there is a split in how it is in game. One of those things that will become clear as we progress into classic.
Is ele sham in arena really as bad as everyone is making it out to be? I want to be competitive and at least have the chance to push for shoulders but the spec seems really interesting to me. I avoided feral druid in classic despite it looking fun because on paper it just couldnt compete, I dont want to have to jump ship after my research phase again but i may end up finding something else to play.
TO be frank: Ele is very difficult, and is niche. You will have a difficult time against meta comps unless you are well trained, and with good team mates that are going to have to work twice as hard to get their wins.
Is ele bad?
No.
Is it hard?
Yes.
Does that make it bad?
Up to you.
I'm confused on why you are recommending 5% spell hit in the talents. As far as I'm aware the hit cap is only 3% in pvp. So i would suggest taking the 2% hit in elemental tree and then gearing for an extra 1%. This allows you to either pick up the crit armor talent or healing pushback talents.
This is on a scuffed private server, so i have had resists. Just a buffer for now.
the team wants to switch to the rogue when he pops and put big damage on him during his opener, you want rouge to use all their cds at the start.
In your opinion is it viable or smart to pvp with a shaman...I want the best of both worlds in pve and pvp
It really is, it just depends on first, what you enjoy, and also what you want to do IN pvp. Elemental is hard, but you certainly have your work cut out for you. Resto is VERY good, and Enhance can work but very COMP SPECIFIC. Does that make sense? Would a video explanation help?
@@TrorrenTBC yeah it definitely would be an interesting watch for me. Especially since I’m getting ready for my draenaei shaman
@@GROC1101 Alright, Ill put it on the content list! a video about how each spec performs in PVP/PVE.
I always have the most success with LSD threes and 2346 5s.
Nice one
i dont agree on the fact that is the worst pvp spec , i feel like Ele work very well in PVP the only probleme is the cast time i feel like ngl if we had more haste would be better this is why in wrath they get super good
I personally see alot of potential for ELE in 5's and BG's but for 2v2 and 3v3, you end up getting shut down SO easily. Im posting a video today that is going to go over this.
@@TrorrenTBC ngl im a main sham but tbc ele enh dosent seem that good so i moght play warr
I played 3s in the top 10 in warmane Back in the Outland days as ele, frostmage, disc. We actually beat many strong Teams, locks were bs far the biggest Problem. Melees were freeloot, even rogues died so fast
@@chronostasis1250 Yea ill be uploading a video soon with that exact comp! Finals are right now, hence the absence from content. But they are in the work! (My fave comp so far is Frost mage/ele/disc)
or just play wotlk and be the thunder god we always mean to be :p also switch tauren to troll in WotLK ofc
no wolf? wait.... WHAT????!!!!
Why not just go with 5 shams and insta kill 2 dudes in the first 5 seconds? And good luck getting rid of 20 totems XD
A multi boxer did it in OG TBC why not! :D