"The first time you see that it is a whole lot of ground"..... "When that happens, you can't think your way out of it". Absolutely, positively the best two statements on loss of control I have ever heard! I was one of the lucky ones. I was hit by a gust at 3000ft AGL in a C172R with 4 POB and ended up on a bank angle of as near to 90deg as **mn it. That was an easy fix but no sooner was I back level than I was struck by the horrible thought of exactly WHAT would I have done had I ended up upside down??? Now you can smugly say "roll level"...but see above. In a loaded C172 you are going to be upside down, nose low, rapidly increasing down angle, building speed FAST, probably with screaming passengers and looking at a "whole lot of ground". What just happened? I should level out. What way IS level? What way IS up?. What was maneuvering speed again? Oh, that's right, it's on the ASI dial. Oh, I should probably cut the throttle. Anyone like to guess how much of your 3000ft you just lost??? I signed up to do my aerobatics endorsement the next day!
And that's why before I was a 100 hr pilot, I took aerobatic training. FWIW with Duane Cole. And when he said I was PIC he meant it. He'd recently lost his medical. But years later when I was flying someone who got us into an involuntary and serious spin, I took over and recovered. Thank you Duane Cole.
Another great video Scott! After 50 years of flying and teaching , it still amazes me that we keep having the same accidents. When I ran a flight college up here in Canada I introduced basic aerobatics for all commercial pilots. My basic philosophy is "The first time you are upside down, you should not have 200 screaming passengers in the back." I have multiple hours in numerous light twins and the Baron 55 has always been my favourite. However it is a handful for the barely competent. The LOC-I does not surprise me in this series of aircraft, twin and single, as they are quite a demanding aircraft to fly well and safe. Also don't get me started on the fuel issue as I fully agree with your comment, that fuel exhaustion is clearly on the pilot. All the best and keep the blue side up.
All these guys crashing are people with money and “no childhood experience” building a foundation for flying by skiing, riding motocross, riding skateboard parks, martial arts, Ext. These are the guys that take too long to get their license, struggling to push through their fears so they can impress their friends because they now have Money but where never good athletes in high school.
@@tropicthndr a lot of what you say has merit, but I think you might be missing a couple of important ingredients for these tragedies: common sense and self discipline. You are so right about lacking childhood experiences.
Thank your for the video. I fly a Debonair that I've owned for thirty years and a Baron that I've had for a few years but only started flying recently. I know these stats for 182s and 150s, but I was always unsure of what killed people in Bonanzas. As it happens, I have personally known several people who have died in Bonanzas turning base to final low on fuel before switching to fullest main, engine dies, stall, spin, everybody dies, so I was going to assume the winner was gonna be fuel related. Very useful video to me. Thanks again.
I was lucky to have a flight instructor who had me do spin training in a 33 and compared to a training aircraft it is night and day different. Bonanza & Barron’s are slick. Barron’s and Twin Comanche are dangerous because they can flat spin my flight instructor said and if I do flight instruction in them be careful ! Just a note his Son in-law and my Friend died in a Barron giving flight instruction in a Barron in a flat spin a few years later.
Thank you for the info Scott! I was fortunate to have spin training early in my flight training in a Cessna 150 and a CAP 10. During most of my ratings my husband and I owned a BE35. I had also participated in several BPPP's. When training for my CFII, I was curious to find out what the V-tail would do in a cross controlled stall. Fortunately, I was blessed to have training with a gentleman, that besides flying B-29's in WWII, was also very knowledgeable about V-tailed Bonanzas. He agreed to go up with me in our plane and we did a cross controlled stall with fully opposite aileron and rudder input. Needless to say, it was eye opening! The loss of altitude during recovery was quite substantial. I asked him if he had ever done a cross controlled stall in a V-tail and he remarked, "Yes, 10 years ago and it did the same damn thing!" I believe this type of procedure produces a ruddervator stall. This is a warning for those pilots transitioning from a Cessna or some other aircraft that you can aggressively slip to a V-tail Bonanza. It is a fabulous plane, but it does not take well to a lot of cross control input. You must very careful particularly when slipping if you have too much altitude on final or you have a cross controlled situation from overshooting the base to final turn. Always best to go around!
Great video! My early flight training was long enough ago that I got to do some stuff like DF steers (Opa Locka,) and PAR approaches in an aero club C172 at Osan AB Korea. Fun stuff. Spin training in a C150 at the Lowry aero club in Denver. It is eye opening how fast the 150 wrapped up into a spin after departure, and the rapid loss of altitude. You just really don't have much time to think about what's happening after the departure from controlled flight. Much better to have been there before in a controlled situation.
I'm not a pilot but I enjoy your videos and I hope the flight instructors use your information to help the students live to fly another day....can't wait for part 3....
I had a chief pilot tell me once “ If you’re not flying the plane, you are a passenger”. Understand what’s going on and practice, practice, practice. You’re training will save you’re life.
We always had to do spin training, but when you decide to do it, ask your instructor to have you enter some spins the real way i.e. have the spin sneak up on you just as it does in the real world. People spin in without even recognising what's going on, and this has been proven by some who have gotten away with it by simply giving up and letting go of the controls, and been lucky enough to recover. One guy was hard to convince that he had been spinning because he had not done his old spin entry as he was trained. Sadly, so many spins start at a height where nothing is going to save the day. If you are aware of the things which indicate the possibility of a spin, then it is really easy to avoid spinning. Simple things like stick position - if it's getting a bit aft and you're not so sure why - you will be approaching the critical angle of attack. Then you see that the ball is off-centre. Nothing difficult about it. Deliberate spinning is heaps of fun, and if it's done by way of really good training, is a life-saver. Get some serious training and enjoy it.
Great video Scott. Over confidence in one's own abilities claims more lives than anything else. Have always fostered a ' What if ' attitude to every aspect of what I am hoping to achieve. And as for cutting corners on fuel ,it amazes that some pilots take such unnecessary chances. Thanks for the effort ,don't think the statistics are lying here!🤔
Great video again Scott. I’ll always have a sweet spot for the Baron in particular- first twin rating, first instrument rating, and about two thousand hours on them before I moved on to heavy jets (up to and including 747s). I’m now about three years into retirement. If I won lotto and had more money, my choice of a personal plane now would be a Baron.
Most certainly right. And seemingly easy to avoid, but we keep seeing accidents related to completely preventable actions by the pilot. That I think is the real challenge - how do we get pilots to avoid this? Technology will help (fuel totalizers, AoA, stall warning, better gear warning, better cockpit weather, airframe parachutes) and I think short term we have to focus on training and awareness.
"Should You have gone around ? " NO , i think as you're here today putting out Excellent Educational Vids , you made the right Choice , Low on fuel , under stress , last thing you needed was to be up in the air , plus you had that long runway . I love this series on these Beechcraft models .
You might like this. Story is an ATC comment by a Regional jet pilot when asked to increase their rate of descent. "We're coming down like a Bonanza full of doctors"
I have spent decades keeping Bonanzas/Barons flying safe from mechanicals, especially the landing gear. It is a good design but must be fine tuned like a mechanical clock. Expect some maintenance at every annual, I have rarely seen any that didn't require something every year.
I had an old instructor tell me to check the roller bearing on BE58 every time. If it didn’t move, don’t fly it. If you don’t have grease on finger, you didn’t check it.
@@cavok76 No doubt the uplock rollers (main l.g.). Barons usually have a flush grease zerk there that many mechanics are unfamiliar with. On some later midels a downlock mechanism also utilizes that bearing and rolling it over is not possible but some amount of fresh grease should be there.
@@upsidedowndog1256 Not a lot of grease, I guess a bit of grime and main part, able to be rolled with finger. I think it was related to putting gear down.
I did my initial training back in the late 90's in Canada and spin training was a mandatory item. When I did my instructor rating, we did fully developed spins partial panel (ironically it was easier).
I did my pilot training in the early 70s when spins were part of the syllabus . I loved spinning the C-150 and Citabria, although the 150 got little tight after the 4th turn.
NAS Miramar, 70-74, one of the GCA RADAR was S of 24L about 7K (Q7) I've seen the AC's recover aircraft, when I was standing at the door of the trailer and could not see ACROSS the runway. I believe our mins were 1mi and 1000ft
For one Bonanzas and Barons are popular with people like doctors and lawyers and other people with a lot of money. People who are A type that can do anything. Spins are scary if you have never done them. When you do them in aircraft certified to spin it can be fun and I don't think the FAA is doing anyone a favor by not requiring spin training. Gold seal CFI Instrument SMEL and Glider.
I flew a 55 many years ago. Enroute to destination I just happened to notice the fuel cap venting fuel at a good rate. The fuel gauge stayed at the 3/4 to full mark. I had sufficient fuel to get to destination. Turns out the fuel cap was incorrectly installed after fueling and the bladder collapsed, causing the gauge error. Check your own fuel caps??? In the airline world pilots always brief for malfunctions before V1, picking an abort point is needed in the light aircraft world.
On-- take off if in doubt/ shut down shut down. That is easy. But if you screw up. It s. Over. I have been in about. Five bad situations and all could have been Prevented
Wall stationed at Myrtle Beach Air Force Base and F100 pilot put me into a spin with a 150 off base training and he was also a airline pilot as well I actually enjoyed the spin and ultimately later on got into aerobatics in a pits I must need to know should be part of the curriculum and pilot training but they don't It was it a requirement at that time in the early seventies I guess it was great video
I learned spin entry and recovery in a tail dragger, specifically an Aeronca early in my training. Very few if any flight schools do spin training early in training aircraft like a Cessna 150,172 on a Piper Cherokee. That means most pilots even commercial instrument rated pilots have never trained for spin entry and recovery. By the time someone buys a Beechcraft of any type they probably have at least a private pilot rating with a few hundred hours. But very few flight schools train students in a Beechcraft. I am assuming spin recovery training and experience in any type aircraft is a good thing. But that means I bet 90% of pilots going out to buy a Beechcraft have never done spins and never do it when they get rated in their Beechcraft of choice. I’m shocked at all the stall spin loss of control in flight accidents. When you say there is no magical airspeed you keep you safe that is true because it depends on things like angle of attack etc. I’m also assuming loss of control in flight is rare in straight and level cross country flying in good weather. It’s probably happens more in marginal weather or tight turns on final approach. Are most stall spin accidents occurring in the pattern? I’m guessing that is the case. Recent stall spin accidents attributed to trim tabs have been in aviation news lately. Turning tight on final too slow in a Lear in a recent accident was shocking. I recently started flying again after not flying for a few years. I checked out a Piper Cherokee, a Cessna 172 and a Sling. In no case during check rides and biannual did we do accelerated stalls or spin and spin recovery. You have to find a specific aerobatic school or a school that has a Citabria etc.
I used to join in the chorus "If it ain't Boeing I ain't going" That saying still gets a laugh occasionally but no longer applies these days as there is a lot of excellent equipment out there competing for your dollar. But this is forever carved in stone for me : If the next spin you see will be your first - "I ain't going" Accident reports invariably call up the Swiss Cheese analogy or the links in the chain analogy - where all the holes have to line up or all the links have to fail. The lack of spin training could be one of those holes or one of those links in the chain. I have never heard a pilot regretting the additional money he spent on his spin training. Add to your toolbox at every opportunity. Read every accident report to help you avoid ever being in one.
Thanks for the important vid; Scott. We slightly disagree with Mr. Clemmons re lying statistics in that many times the source of the disinformation is many times within the listener rather than the tne presenter -- many Boards of Directors and professional groups may be all too eager to leap to erroneous conclusions based on inadequate data and thus come to conclusions contrary to developing facts. One needs to assess one's audience properly in all occasions.
Very good Scott, stall/spin training when possible is insurance you can bank on, I was a little unclear about loss of control in flight, in the pattern? Where would that be? And... I think some glider/sailplane stick and rudder flight training is a good idea. Want that IFR add-on? See what a spinning sailplane is all about first, really sharpens you up. I get it's not for everyone but should be! -C
Thanks Scott. Great Video. I wish I had access to your data. I would love to know if we could solve the easy fixes (fuel, descent below minimums) how the accident rate would improve.
In my opinion, spins and unusual attitudes recovery should be mandatory during flight training, like we did in the military. A lot of pilots don't have a clue about it and if they face a situation like that, they would go in. Unfortunately.
In the heat of the battle is never a good time to try something new. I was in retail sales for almost 30 years. Experience in sales and being able to think under pressure were always valuable skills. We had scripts as guides until you made it a part of your routine then the scripts were not needed anymore.
After spending my life Flying flying school owner ATP 32 years Major Airline and my father owning a 63 V tail Bonanza. Most of the students we taught to fly were very Safety conscious. Then there were the ones who had to get there with the money to afford these aircraft. when encouraged to get more training chose not to.looking at numbers don't tell the story? running out of fuel? goes with the ones knowingly flying into marginal weather.with little recent IFR time? I owned a Piper Turbo Arrow it was equipped with a vacuum HSI and electric HSI and a second Vacuum source .along with a backup battery for radio's recently A 36 leaving our Area on IFR flight had a Vacuum pump failure at night causing him to loose his HSI he called to declare an emergency the controler's tried to help but it ended with 2 dead loss of control Accident. That why My aircraft was so equipped . and there are quite a few other accidents where a single cause can lead to a fatal crash. these are high power aircraft that the pilot needs to have proper training and keep up his proficiency. they believe it won't happen to them.But Aviation like the Sea is unforgiving of any Mistakes.
Re: “Fuel” being so high on the list, it has NEVER made sense to me that manufacturers would have us switching tanks on FINAL (Before Landing)! Sure… go ahead and introduce an opportunity for fuel starvation when you’re slow, and close to the ground. 🤦♂️ There will be ZERO fuel burn / balancing to be gained by doing such, and if you’re cutting your fuel allowance so close that the last cup of gas can only be found in one tank, that’s called an “emergency”. Personally? I switch to fullest tank upon initial Descent, so that IF there’s a hiccup I’ve still got altitude… And altitude = time, and time = options. 😉👍🏻
About 3 years ago, I had a wake turbulence encounter near Edwards AFB. I must have flown my 310 to the wake of a passing Cargo plane (there were 130's and C5's in the vicinity). The wake flipped my plane inverted in about 1-2 seconds, essentially making us do a Split-S. Recovery in this instance was to continue the roll and stop when the nearest horizon (in front) came around. At this point we were pointed down hill with a lot of ground in the windscreen. Gently pulling back to level. We had rolled and come out about 270 degrees from our original heading. ATC was unaware of anything. When I asked about any military flights, they said nothing (crickets....). I filed a NASA report that night. So, Not exactly a spin, certainly not a Baron, but very similar (IO-470's, 100-ish gallons). The only saving grace was my initial training was in Gliders where I had a few hours in Acrobatic maneuvers.
Great story. That was an inverted upset, common with wake vortex encounters between light planes and heavy ones. I’ve got several videos on that subject.
Another great video. I learned to fly over 30 yrs ago and probably the best training I ever received was a 10-hour aerobatic course in a Decathalon. The instructor (crusty old AF P-51 driver) used to say "Aerobatics teaches competence and confidence". That first time the plane does something significantly against your will (flops over on its side and starts rolling) and you're hanging in the straps while staring at the ground gets your attention. But you learn how to deal with it, properly and quickly. Then you add to that new skill set. Before you know it you're doing hammerheads and completely comfortable being vertical, upside down, or any other combination. That training paid off throughout my flying career. No way I'd let my kid learn to fly without having them go through at least an entry-level spin and aerobatic training class.
Hey Scott, I'm about to embark on my 1st lessons this month and have a question.......as a brand-new pilot would yu recommend a split-tail or stay with a regular Cessna if I'm going to invest in a plane??? Thanks for all your knowledge. Greg
Have 2462 hours logged in a V35 bonanza that I own and probably another 3200 hours in a 1978 baron 58 and these aircraft do not crash anymore than any other Manufacturer or type of aircraft in the skies today its more to do with aircraft condition and pilot experience
When you look at the numbers Cessna and Piper both crash at a higher percentage than a Beechcraft. At least that is what my research shows. But I don’t care much for Cessna or Piper.
Scott thank you for your excellent analysis on flying incidents. My airforce training in the RCAF saved my life in another sport of skydiving. I ended up with a mis packed chute on my first jump and had to go into my reserve. I studied all the malfunctions and what to do if I experienced one so I was ready. I though if one of the other five had got my chute I don’t think they would have been alive today as they had no idea what to do when I showed them the pictures of different malfunctions before we went up after lunch.
Former ME CFI. About the Baron that crashed on tractor trailer in NC last week. Right engine previous problems and landed there 4 months ago. Owner only wanted to put cylinders, not overhaul of the old engine. Looks like on that take off right engine problem again. But.. looks like he reduced power on left engine instead of flying with left engine as it can be done on an empty Baron. And stalled it turning left. Crashed on top of the trailer. That looks like a stalled left turn, not a VMC Roll after right engine failed. I used to teach accelerated stalls. On video looks like an accelerated stall to the left. Accelerated stall power off you drop a lot and fast.. with one wing low and stalled.. As seen there. VMC rolls you roll more than drop until near vertical, then you drop like hell after that. For me, that guy cut the left after right failed and turned left, and stalled it.
Just sharing my story of my crash in a C-35 (52) I think. I was flying on a work trip from Nashville area to Oletha Kansas near Kansas City. I made some bad assumptions. I've been there before and it seemed like an upscale airport that "would have an ILS" (the mistaken thought). A low level hurricane system moved in from the south causing heavy rain and low clouds. I didn't have charts only field altitude from my GPS. Of course GPS location may be mid-field or worse accuracy. So I made up an approach based on field altitude and GPS direction. It was heavy rain and I landed after mid-field (per recollection). Pressing the breaks in the heavy rain did almost nothing. I decided to turn into the grass on the side of the run way for more friction. I damaged my ancient prop in the transition and still went down the hill past the end of the runway. Airport game me a toe - insurance was greatly helpful. But I'll never take a multi-hour trip without a better weather briefing. What was that great article in Flying mag. "I learned flying from that."
Scott, admirable statistics work! I'd like your thoughts on the "received wisdom" on Bonanza/Baron accidents in general. What I was told was the theory that the Beech models are hot rods compared to the tame stable of 152/172 etc and that while it may not look that great on paper, the skills gap for especially pilots with fewer hours is huge. Things both move a lot faster and are less forgiving. In the same way that there are more Mustang/Camaro loss of control accidents than in Toyota Camrys. There's nothing inherently unsafe about sports cars, but it takes experience to know how to handle the extra acceleration and speed, that same driver is a lot safer in a regular car until they gain experience. Your thoughts?
The encouraging thing is that you can slash your chances of having an accident just by being sensible, flying within your limitations and doing a bit of planning!
Connections.. 1. From 1971-1974, I was a USAF ATC radar technician that maintained the PAR unit at Dyess AFB, Texas. It was built in 1951 or 1952 and used electron tubes. It worked very well and a good controller could fly you right to the runway. The system used three reflector dishes about 30 inches in diameter for alignment - one on either side of the runway threshold and one that was the same distance from the runway as the radar unit and even with the touchdown point. The radar displayed the echoes from the dishes on the screen as well as an aircraft on final. If an aircraft passed between the two threshold reflectors and touched down at the third reflector, it was exactly where it should be. 2. I got my SEL pilot's license in 1975 and during my training, my instructor showed me a spin in a Cessna 150. I didn't want to see another one. The plane's nose down attitude was so steep that I could literally see the spot on the ground where we would have hit had we not recovered. And, the ground was spinning rapidly. Of course, a nose down spin is more recoverable than a flat one. I've been flying radio controlled models since 1963, but only flew full scale from 1974-1977. 3. A few months after I got my SEL ticket, I drove out to the airport and arrived just as a friend of mine was pushing his Commander Lark back into his hangar. He offered to let me take it up solo, but since I'd never flown it before, I had him get in the right seat. We taxied to the nearest intersection and took off. About 200 feet up, the engine lost power. Instinctively, I lowered the nose and established a descent to the remaining runway. That's when he remembered that he had turned the fuel valve off before putting it in the hangar. Somehow we missed It during the startup sequence. He turned it back on and the engine came to life just as I was rounding out. After a few seconds of level flight down the runway, I raised the nose and we climbed away. Lessons learned: 1. Use the checklists. 2. Don't do intersection takeoffs. 3. Have someone familiar with the plane go with you on the first flight.
For a private pilot certificate, why is spin training not required? Back when I learned to fly, staring in 1971, my CFI demanded it. How are we to know how to get out of one, if you're never trained?
Scott, does the data allow for Venn diagrams that allow for the overlap of these causes. Some just screamed "they're connected!" to me: in the twins, mechanical failure of one engine leads to the LOC. Mechanical failure during take-off in any aircraft. And so on. The only cut and dry ones seem to be landing and flight into IMC: problems handling those sleak birds and going where you have no business going (without a rating).
Flying is a "skill". Recovering from spins is a "skill". "Skills" require training and practice to perform them well. Your idea is logical. I concur. Thanks.
I understand in this litigious society not wanting to offer advice, but perhaps your disclaimer could be "this is what someone else said may help recover" or point us in the direction of the spin recovery technique.....it could save a life!
If it is the counterintuitive technique that I'm thinking about, it's almost more of a party trick than a legitimate spin recovery procedure. Certainly not anything that will save anyone's life who is less than a few thousand feet AGL. I've actually seen the technique published in a aviation magazine, years ago. Test pilot stuff. Much better off to focus on avoidance....
My dad was an airline pilot and I worked reparing jet engine parts For 41 and a 1/2 years and people would always talk to me about the bonanzas. They weren't pilot's. They would always blame the V tail for the crash.
I used to do PARs back when I was carrying troops on the L10-11 into American military bases in Japan. In fact I’d request them for practice. As you said they can be very accurate with a good controller when the ILS isn’t available or not working. I also recall always being out of fuel when flying to Japan from the west coast so a good PAR in the crappy weather of Japan was nice!
My uncle landed a Baron in Tampa Bay in 1975(?). Reason? Tampa Air Traffic control gave him incorrect radar altimeter data (300 feet low) at the start of his approach in very heavy fog. All three on board survived, touching down about a mile short of the runway. He had flown 32 missions in a B-24 over Germany and that was the first time he had ever been scratched in an airplane. He maintained (at touchdown) it was the smoothest landing he had ever made. Until it wasn’t….they were picked up by a lobster boat a few minutes later. I still miss that airplane. Great aircraft.
Scott Love the subject and the way you present information, No one can know it all Minor note 56 were powered by Lycoming TIO-540-E1B4, Travel Airs were BE95. To confuse matters the BE55/95 is both a Travel Air also a Baron. Than there is a Travel Aire..........
Great video! Completely agree with comments about spin training. About the F-4 landing... as I understand it, you could see the runway. With the runway in sight and 12k feet available, no sweat. Great idea to key the mike though the controller was trying his best to help, he didn't have your view out of the cockpit. Thanks but no thanks is always an option.
@@FlyWirescottperdue My dad flew B-47's and once made a very hairy (bingo fuel) landing at an alternate in England after a transatlantic flight on TDY. The fact that he had a weapon aboard made for very stressful landing... made successfully only when his co-pilot spotted the runway. I believe it was a GCA approach and 3rd attempt.
Thanks so much for the insight! It’s been a long long time since Tweety Bird spin tests at Edwards and no matter how many times it happens…spins… the visceral reaction for most people is the same and that’s unfortunately catastrophic. Really appreciate your videos! ✅6
V tail 35, 30 years ago, Fuel would have been my report: Long cross country Shannon VA to KRHV. multi-able fuel stops, two pilots. Human factors101, checklist not followed. Fuel starvation when lineman marshaling for parking, could have been on final:/.. failed to switch to mains during Descent. Thanks for the video.
You, sir, were fantastic. I appreciated the info, the delivery and even the dry sense of humor. I'd like to get my PPL in my own plane, so I have been reviewing what to purchase, and Bonanza's are on the list. But as you say, training is very important and finding a teacher such as yourself will be difficult. I know a bit of math and statistics also and understand how good the database needs to be to draw more detailed conclusions.
Exactly, I've got a few hours in upset recovery EA300 and videos are on my channel, I always recommend going to do upset recovery and lots of it so it does not scare you.
In my case...gnashing of tooth. Curse you, sour patch gummies. You're not a kitten doing cute stuff, but you do make me smile...and think. Thanks for doing what you do, Scott. I've said it before, but I'll say it again...I love spin/upset/unusual attitude training. It's not just educational...it's fun. In Canada, starting with the PPL, spin recovery training is mandatory. Of course, spin avoidance is also taught. Your spin video is the view I would see spinning a 172. The visual and physical sensations are extreme and would probably overwhelm the uninitiated and you can't experience that in a sim. Spins are one of those things that you have to try before you know how you will react. 1000 feet goes by in a flash, even with perfect recovery technique and in my mind, nothing is more effective than that, at hammering home the importance of speed control and coordinated flight in the curcuit.
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"The first time you see that it is a whole lot of ground"..... "When that happens, you can't think your way out of it". Absolutely, positively the best two statements on loss of control I have ever heard! I was one of the lucky ones. I was hit by a gust at 3000ft AGL in a C172R with 4 POB and ended up on a bank angle of as near to 90deg as **mn it. That was an easy fix but no sooner was I back level than I was struck by the horrible thought of exactly WHAT would I have done had I ended up upside down??? Now you can smugly say "roll level"...but see above. In a loaded C172 you are going to be upside down, nose low, rapidly increasing down angle, building speed FAST, probably with screaming passengers and looking at a "whole lot of ground". What just happened? I should level out. What way IS level? What way IS up?. What was maneuvering speed again? Oh, that's right, it's on the ASI dial. Oh, I should probably cut the throttle. Anyone like to guess how much of your 3000ft you just lost??? I signed up to do my aerobatics endorsement the next day!
And that's why before I was a 100 hr pilot, I took aerobatic training. FWIW with Duane Cole. And when he said I was PIC he meant it. He'd recently lost his medical. But years later when I was flying someone who got us into an involuntary and serious spin, I took over and recovered. Thank you Duane Cole.
He was the king of stick and rudder.
Another great video Scott! After 50 years of flying and teaching , it still amazes me that we keep having the same accidents. When I ran a flight college up here in Canada I introduced basic aerobatics for all commercial pilots. My basic philosophy is "The first time you are upside down, you should not have 200 screaming passengers in the back." I have multiple hours in numerous light twins and the Baron 55 has always been my favourite. However it is a handful for the barely competent. The LOC-I does not surprise me in this series of aircraft, twin and single, as they are quite a demanding aircraft to fly well and safe. Also don't get me started on the fuel issue as I fully agree with your comment, that fuel exhaustion is clearly on the pilot. All the best and keep the blue side up.
I always heard it as "Keep the Greasy side down".
@@HoundDogMech "6 to one, 1/2 dozen to another"
All these guys crashing are people with money and “no childhood experience” building a foundation for flying by skiing, riding motocross, riding skateboard parks, martial arts, Ext. These are the guys that take too long to get their license, struggling to push through their fears so they can impress their friends because they now have Money but where never good athletes in high school.
@@tropicthndr a lot of what you say has merit, but I think you might be missing a couple of important ingredients for these tragedies: common sense and self discipline. You are so right about lacking childhood experiences.
@@tropicthndr I don’t know if I am understanding you here but being a good athlete in school has nothing to do with flying an airplane.
THANKS for taking your time for this instruction !
Thank your for the video. I fly a Debonair that I've owned for thirty years and a Baron that I've had for a few years but only started flying recently. I know these stats for 182s and 150s, but I was always unsure of what killed people in Bonanzas. As it happens, I have personally known several people who have died in Bonanzas turning base to final low on fuel before switching to fullest main, engine dies, stall, spin, everybody dies, so I was going to assume the winner was gonna be fuel related. Very useful video to me. Thanks again.
I was lucky to have a flight instructor who had me do spin training in a 33 and compared to a training aircraft it is night and day different. Bonanza & Barron’s are slick.
Barron’s and Twin Comanche are dangerous because they can flat spin my flight instructor said and if I do flight instruction in them be careful !
Just a note his Son in-law and my Friend died in a Barron giving flight instruction in a Barron in a flat spin a few years later.
Thank you for the info Scott! I was fortunate to have spin training early in my flight training in a Cessna 150 and a CAP 10. During most of my ratings my husband and I owned a BE35. I had also participated in several BPPP's. When training for my CFII, I was curious to find out what the V-tail would do in a cross controlled stall. Fortunately, I was blessed to have training with a gentleman, that besides flying B-29's in WWII, was also very knowledgeable about V-tailed Bonanzas. He agreed to go up with me in our plane and we did a cross controlled stall with fully opposite aileron and rudder input. Needless to say, it was eye opening! The loss of altitude during recovery was quite substantial. I asked him if he had ever done a cross controlled stall in a V-tail and he remarked, "Yes, 10 years ago and it did the same damn thing!" I believe this type of procedure produces a ruddervator stall. This is a warning for those pilots transitioning from a Cessna or some other aircraft that you can aggressively slip to a V-tail Bonanza. It is a fabulous plane, but it does not take well to a lot of cross control input. You must very careful particularly when slipping if you have too much altitude on final or you have a cross controlled situation from overshooting the base to final turn. Always best to go around!
Cynthia, great comment! Thanks for sharing!
Great video! My early flight training was long enough ago that I got to do some stuff like DF steers (Opa Locka,) and PAR approaches in an aero club C172 at Osan AB Korea. Fun stuff. Spin training in a C150 at the Lowry aero club in Denver. It is eye opening how fast the 150 wrapped up into a spin after departure, and the rapid loss of altitude. You just really don't have much time to think about what's happening after the departure from controlled flight. Much better to have been there before in a controlled situation.
Thank you for what you’re doing. As an owner of a V35 I value your knowledge and experience and heed the lessons. Please keep up the good work!
I'm not a pilot but I enjoy your videos and I hope the flight instructors use your information to help the students live to fly another day....can't wait for part 3....
The intention to commit aviation. What a line. Keep that at heart pilots.
I had a chief pilot tell me once “ If you’re not flying the plane, you are a passenger”. Understand what’s going on and practice, practice, practice. You’re training will save you’re life.
What I got out of these two videos is complacency is the biggest killer of them all.
Good takeaway!
Brilliant as ever…thanks…really appreciate these presentations …without BS as always. 👍🏴
#1 reason. Pilot Error. 2,3,4,5 = Reason #1
We always had to do spin training, but when you decide to do it, ask your instructor to have you enter some spins the real way i.e. have the spin sneak up on you just as it does in the real world.
People spin in without even recognising what's going on, and this has been proven by some who have gotten away with it by simply giving up and letting go of the controls, and been lucky enough to recover. One guy was hard to convince that he had been spinning because he had not done his old spin entry as he was trained. Sadly, so many spins start at a height where nothing is going to save the day. If you are aware of the things which indicate the possibility of a spin, then it is really easy to avoid spinning.
Simple things like stick position - if it's getting a bit aft and you're not so sure why - you will be approaching the critical angle of attack. Then you see that the ball is off-centre. Nothing difficult about it. Deliberate spinning is heaps of fun, and if it's done by way of really good training, is a life-saver. Get some serious training and enjoy it.
Well said! Every pilot should undergo upset recovery training on a regular basis. Besides, flying aerobatics is very fun!
Scott, this is great. I’d say since you had the edge lights you’re good per 91.175. Love you videos.
Roll coupling! Remember that T-38 prohibited maneuver about max deflection multiple aileron rolls? ;-)
Absolutely! Limited to half stick.
I don’t think that applied to student solo rides?
Amazing work. Truly, THANK YOU.
Excellent in every way. Thanks.
Great video Scott. Over confidence in one's own abilities claims more lives than anything else. Have always fostered a ' What if ' attitude to every aspect of what I am hoping to achieve. And as for cutting corners on fuel ,it amazes that some pilots take such unnecessary chances. Thanks for the effort ,don't think the statistics are lying here!🤔
Awesome video! I’m looking forward to seeing more!
Great video again Scott.
I’ll always have a sweet spot for the Baron in particular- first twin rating, first instrument rating, and about two thousand hours on them before I moved on to heavy jets (up to and including 747s). I’m now about three years into retirement.
If I won lotto and had more money, my choice of a personal plane now would be a Baron.
I would be willing to bet those top 5 would be common across all types of GA planes.
Most certainly right. And seemingly easy to avoid, but we keep seeing accidents related to completely preventable actions by the pilot. That I think is the real challenge - how do we get pilots to avoid this? Technology will help (fuel totalizers, AoA, stall warning, better gear warning, better cockpit weather, airframe parachutes) and I think short term we have to focus on training and awareness.
"Should You have gone around ? " NO , i think as you're here today putting out Excellent Educational Vids , you made the right Choice , Low on fuel , under stress , last thing you needed was to be up in the air , plus you had that long runway . I love this series on these Beechcraft models .
You might like this.
Story is an ATC comment by a Regional jet pilot when asked to increase their rate of descent.
"We're coming down like a Bonanza full of doctors"
Tremendous video. Thank you. 🇺🇸🍀🇺🇸
By the way? I also had a career keeping asses safe in the airline industry.
😊
I have spent decades keeping Bonanzas/Barons flying safe from mechanicals, especially the landing gear. It is a good design but must be fine tuned like a mechanical clock. Expect some maintenance at every annual, I have rarely seen any that didn't require something every year.
I had an old instructor tell me to check the roller bearing on BE58 every time. If it didn’t move, don’t fly it. If you don’t have grease on finger, you didn’t check it.
@@cavok76
No doubt the uplock rollers (main l.g.). Barons usually have a flush grease zerk there that many mechanics are unfamiliar with. On some later midels a downlock mechanism also utilizes that bearing and rolling it over is not possible but some amount of fresh grease should be there.
@@upsidedowndog1256 Not a lot of grease, I guess a bit of grime and main part, able to be rolled with finger. I think it was related to putting gear down.
I did my initial training back in the late 90's in Canada and spin training was a mandatory item. When I did my instructor rating, we did fully developed spins partial panel (ironically it was easier).
The FAA took Spins out of the syllabus quite a long time ago. It was not a good idea.
“Cirri”…..are those the dormant flying insects that come out on 17 year cycles?🤣🤣
Very enlightening. Best advice seems to be prepare for bad situations because you must have a pre-defined response. "Time is NOT on your side."
I did my pilot training in the early 70s when spins were part of the syllabus . I loved spinning the C-150 and Citabria, although the 150 got little tight after the 4th turn.
NAS Miramar, 70-74, one of the GCA RADAR was S of 24L about 7K (Q7) I've seen the AC's recover aircraft, when I was standing at the door of the trailer and could not see ACROSS the runway. I believe our mins were 1mi and 1000ft
Would like to hear this f15 spin recovery technique. Anyone know if he posted it already?
16:56 watch her eyes.
Even though she knows it's coming, those eyes tell no lies.
:Lot of ground" indeed.
For one Bonanzas and Barons are popular with people like doctors and lawyers and other people with a lot of money. People who are A type that can do anything. Spins are scary if you have never done them. When you do them in aircraft certified to spin it can be fun and I don't think the FAA is doing anyone a favor by not requiring spin training. Gold seal CFI Instrument SMEL and Glider.
I like your boiling it down to common sense and good procedures. Like the most effective way to improve your health is to not smoke cigarettes .
I flew a 55 many years ago. Enroute to destination I just happened to notice the fuel cap venting fuel at a good rate. The fuel gauge stayed at the 3/4 to full mark. I had sufficient fuel to get to destination. Turns out the fuel cap was incorrectly installed after fueling and the bladder collapsed, causing the gauge error. Check your own fuel caps??? In the airline world pilots always brief for malfunctions before V1, picking an abort point is needed in the light aircraft world.
On-- take off if in doubt/ shut down shut down. That is easy. But if you screw up. It s. Over. I have been in about. Five bad situations and all could have been Prevented
1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 failure of the pilot to operate within the recommended flight envelope.
Wall stationed at Myrtle Beach Air Force Base and F100 pilot put me into a spin with a 150 off base training and he was also a airline pilot as well I actually enjoyed the spin and ultimately later on got into aerobatics in a pits I must need to know should be part of the curriculum and pilot training but they don't It was it a requirement at that time in the early seventies I guess it was great video
I learned spin entry and recovery in a tail dragger, specifically an Aeronca early in my training. Very few if any flight schools do spin training early in training aircraft like a Cessna 150,172 on a Piper Cherokee. That means most pilots even commercial instrument rated pilots have never trained for spin entry and recovery.
By the time someone buys a Beechcraft of any type they probably have at least a private pilot rating with a few hundred hours. But very few flight schools train students in a Beechcraft. I am assuming spin recovery training and experience in any type aircraft is a good thing. But that means I bet 90% of pilots going out to buy a Beechcraft have never done spins and never do it when they get rated in their Beechcraft of choice.
I’m shocked at all the stall spin loss of control in flight accidents. When you say there is no magical airspeed you keep you safe that is true because it depends on things like angle of attack etc. I’m also assuming loss of control in flight is rare in straight and level cross country flying in good weather. It’s probably happens more in marginal weather or tight turns on final approach. Are most stall spin accidents occurring in the pattern? I’m guessing that is the case. Recent stall spin accidents attributed to trim tabs have been in aviation news lately. Turning tight on final too slow in a Lear in a recent accident was shocking.
I recently started flying again after not flying for a few years. I checked out a Piper Cherokee, a Cessna 172 and a Sling. In no case during check rides and biannual did we do accelerated stalls or spin and spin recovery. You have to find a specific aerobatic school or a school that has a Citabria etc.
I used to join in the chorus "If it ain't Boeing I ain't going"
That saying still gets a laugh occasionally but no longer applies these days as there is a lot of excellent equipment out there competing for your dollar.
But this is forever carved in stone for me :
If the next spin you see will be your first - "I ain't going"
Accident reports invariably call up the Swiss Cheese analogy or the links in the chain analogy - where all the holes have to line up or all the links have to fail.
The lack of spin training could be one of those holes or one of those links in the chain.
I have never heard a pilot regretting the additional money he spent on his spin training.
Add to your toolbox at every opportunity.
Read every accident report to help you avoid ever being in one.
Thanks for the important vid; Scott. We slightly disagree with Mr. Clemmons re lying statistics in that many times the source of the disinformation is many times within the listener rather than the tne presenter -- many Boards of Directors and professional groups may be all too eager to leap to erroneous conclusions based on inadequate data and thus come to conclusions contrary to developing facts. One needs to assess one's audience properly in all occasions.
Looking forward to this
Scott is be my dream instructor. His communication skills are top shelf.
In a light airplane the only time you can have too much fuel is when you are on fire... I was taught to always have well more than enough fuel.
Very good Scott, stall/spin training when possible is insurance you can bank on, I was a little unclear about loss of control in flight, in the pattern? Where would that be? And... I think some glider/sailplane stick and rudder flight training is a good idea. Want that IFR add-on? See what a spinning sailplane is all about first, really sharpens you up. I get it's not for everyone but should be! -C
Please do a video of the same topic on Diamond DA40
Excellent video. And we often overlook what you said " YOU fly the airplane. Don't let the airplane fly you. Thanks😉
I agree. You won’t live if you get in a spin down low and you’ve never seen it before.
Love your channel. You and Dan Gryder should both be commended for the work you do to help make flying safer for private pilot’s. Thank you.
Yes I agree. Those are Great, Fun, Instructional Channels.
Thanks Scott. Great Video. I wish I had access to your data. I would love to know if we could solve the easy fixes (fuel, descent below minimums) how the accident rate would improve.
The data I pulled off of the NTSB database. You can too.
Thanks for not torturing those numbers as many sadistitions would've. 👍👍
It would seem to be much safer if you got rid of the fuel, takeoffs, and landings.
Pilot in command
In my opinion, spins and unusual attitudes recovery should be mandatory during flight training, like we did in the military. A lot of pilots don't have a clue about it and if they face a situation like that, they would go in. Unfortunately.
Look? I have LOTS of hours on Bonanzas and Barons. Still alive!!!!
Imagine that!
In the heat of the battle is never a good time to try something new. I was in retail sales for almost 30 years. Experience in sales and being able to think under pressure were always valuable skills. We had scripts as guides until you made it a part of your routine then the scripts were not needed anymore.
After spending my life Flying flying school owner ATP 32 years Major Airline and
my father owning a 63 V tail Bonanza. Most of the students we taught to fly were
very Safety conscious. Then there were the ones who had to get there with the
money to afford these aircraft. when encouraged to get more training chose
not to.looking at numbers don't tell the story? running out of fuel? goes with
the ones knowingly flying into marginal weather.with little recent IFR time?
I owned a Piper Turbo Arrow it was equipped with a vacuum HSI and electric
HSI and a second Vacuum source .along with a backup battery for radio's
recently A 36 leaving our Area on IFR flight had a Vacuum pump failure
at night causing him to loose his HSI he called to declare an emergency
the controler's tried to help but it ended with 2 dead loss of control Accident.
That why My aircraft was so equipped . and there are quite a few other accidents
where a single cause can lead to a fatal crash. these are high power aircraft
that the pilot needs to have proper training and keep up his proficiency.
they believe it won't happen to them.But Aviation like the Sea is unforgiving
of any Mistakes.
Pilot Error takes all 5 reasons. The V tails were severly stressed beyond design before they failed. BOLD PILOTS ARE THE REASON.
Yep.
Re: “Fuel” being so high on the list, it has NEVER made sense to me that manufacturers would have us switching tanks on FINAL (Before Landing)!
Sure… go ahead and introduce an opportunity for fuel starvation when you’re slow, and close to the ground. 🤦♂️
There will be ZERO fuel burn / balancing to be gained by doing such, and if you’re cutting your fuel allowance so close that the last cup of gas can only be found in one tank, that’s called an “emergency”.
Personally? I switch to fullest tank upon initial Descent, so that IF there’s a hiccup I’ve still got altitude… And altitude = time, and time = options. 😉👍🏻
Good plan!
About 3 years ago, I had a wake turbulence encounter near Edwards AFB. I must have flown my 310 to the wake of a passing Cargo plane (there were 130's and C5's in the vicinity). The wake flipped my plane inverted in about 1-2 seconds, essentially making us do a Split-S.
Recovery in this instance was to continue the roll and stop when the nearest horizon (in front) came around. At this point we were pointed down hill with a lot of ground in the windscreen. Gently pulling back to level. We had rolled and come out about 270 degrees from our original heading.
ATC was unaware of anything. When I asked about any military flights, they said nothing (crickets....). I filed a NASA report that night.
So, Not exactly a spin, certainly not a Baron, but very similar (IO-470's, 100-ish gallons).
The only saving grace was my initial training was in Gliders where I had a few hours in Acrobatic maneuvers.
Great story. That was an inverted upset, common with wake vortex encounters between light planes and heavy ones. I’ve got several videos on that subject.
Another great video. I learned to fly over 30 yrs ago and probably the best training I ever received was a 10-hour aerobatic course in a Decathalon. The instructor (crusty old AF P-51 driver) used to say "Aerobatics teaches competence and confidence". That first time the plane does something significantly against your will (flops over on its side and starts rolling) and you're hanging in the straps while staring at the ground gets your attention. But you learn how to deal with it, properly and quickly. Then you add to that new skill set. Before you know it you're doing hammerheads and completely comfortable being vertical, upside down, or any other combination. That training paid off throughout my flying career. No way I'd let my kid learn to fly without having them go through at least an entry-level spin and aerobatic training class.
Hey Scott, I'm about to embark on my 1st lessons this month and have a question.......as a brand-new pilot would yu recommend a split-tail or stay with a regular Cessna if I'm going to invest in a plane??? Thanks for all your knowledge. Greg
If you’re talking about buying a plane to train in. A C172 is a good choice. If you’re talking about after you get your license… a Bonanza of course!
Have 2462 hours logged in a V35 bonanza that I own and probably another 3200 hours in a 1978 baron 58 and these aircraft do not crash anymore than any other Manufacturer or type of aircraft in the skies today its more to do with aircraft condition and pilot experience
When you look at the numbers Cessna and Piper both crash at a higher percentage than a Beechcraft. At least that is what my research shows. But I don’t care much for Cessna or Piper.
Scott thank you for your excellent analysis on flying incidents. My airforce training in the RCAF saved my life in another sport of skydiving. I ended up with a mis packed chute on my first jump and had to go into my reserve. I studied all the malfunctions and what to do if I experienced one so I was ready. I though if one of the other five had got my chute I don’t think they would have been alive today as they had no idea what to do when I showed them the pictures of different malfunctions before we went up after lunch.
I've got my dad's looking at an old two sixty b. What would be the comparable banana that I want him to look at before buying.
A late 50's 50 mid 60' V Tail or Debonair would be great for that mission.
Former ME CFI. About the Baron that crashed on tractor trailer in NC last week. Right engine previous problems and landed there 4 months ago. Owner only wanted to put cylinders, not overhaul of the old engine. Looks like on that take off right engine problem again. But.. looks like he reduced power on left engine instead of flying with left engine as it can be done on an empty Baron. And stalled it turning left. Crashed on top of the trailer. That looks like a stalled left turn, not a VMC Roll after right engine failed. I used to teach accelerated stalls.
On video looks like an accelerated stall to the left. Accelerated stall power off you drop a lot and fast.. with one wing low and stalled.. As seen there. VMC rolls you roll more than drop until near vertical, then you drop like hell after that. For me, that guy cut the left after right failed and turned left, and stalled it.
Just sharing my story of my crash in a C-35 (52) I think. I was flying on a work trip from Nashville area to Oletha Kansas near Kansas City. I made some bad assumptions. I've been there before and it seemed like an upscale airport that "would have an ILS" (the mistaken thought). A low level hurricane system moved in from the south causing heavy rain and low clouds. I didn't have charts only field altitude from my GPS. Of course GPS location may be mid-field or worse accuracy. So I made up an approach based on field altitude and GPS direction. It was heavy rain and I landed after mid-field (per recollection). Pressing the breaks in the heavy rain did almost nothing. I decided to turn into the grass on the side of the run way for more friction. I damaged my ancient prop in the transition and still went down the hill past the end of the runway. Airport game me a toe - insurance was greatly helpful. But I'll never take a multi-hour trip without a better weather briefing. What was that great article in Flying mag. "I learned flying from that."
Scott, admirable statistics work! I'd like your thoughts on the "received wisdom" on Bonanza/Baron accidents in general. What I was told was the theory that the Beech models are hot rods compared to the tame stable of 152/172 etc and that while it may not look that great on paper, the skills gap for especially pilots with fewer hours is huge. Things both move a lot faster and are less forgiving. In the same way that there are more Mustang/Camaro loss of control accidents than in Toyota Camrys. There's nothing inherently unsafe about sports cars, but it takes experience to know how to handle the extra acceleration and speed, that same driver is a lot safer in a regular car until they gain experience. Your thoughts?
The encouraging thing is that you can slash your chances of having an accident just by being sensible, flying within your limitations and doing a bit of planning!
Connections..
1. From 1971-1974, I was a USAF ATC radar technician that maintained the PAR unit at Dyess AFB, Texas. It was built in 1951 or 1952 and used electron tubes. It worked very well and a good controller could fly you right to the runway. The system used three reflector dishes about 30 inches in diameter for alignment - one on either side of the runway threshold and one that was the same distance from the runway as the radar unit and even with the touchdown point. The radar displayed the echoes from the dishes on the screen as well as an aircraft on final. If an aircraft passed between the two threshold reflectors and touched down at the third reflector, it was exactly where it should be.
2. I got my SEL pilot's license in 1975 and during my training, my instructor showed me a spin in a Cessna 150. I didn't want to see another one. The plane's nose down attitude was so steep that I could literally see the spot on the ground where we would have hit had we not recovered. And, the ground was spinning rapidly. Of course, a nose down spin is more recoverable than a flat one. I've been flying radio controlled models since 1963, but only flew full scale from 1974-1977.
3. A few months after I got my SEL ticket, I drove out to the airport and arrived just as a friend of mine was pushing his Commander Lark back into his hangar. He offered to let me take it up solo, but since I'd never flown it before, I had him get in the right seat. We taxied to the nearest intersection and took off. About 200 feet up, the engine lost power. Instinctively, I lowered the nose and established a descent to the remaining runway. That's when he remembered that he had turned the fuel valve off before putting it in the hangar. Somehow we missed It during the startup sequence. He turned it back on and the engine came to life just as I was rounding out. After a few seconds of level flight down the runway, I raised the nose and we climbed away. Lessons learned: 1. Use the checklists. 2. Don't do intersection takeoffs. 3. Have someone familiar with the plane go with you on the first flight.
Good you pushed that nose down. Many pull up and spin instead.
@@outwiththem Yep, pull back to go up; pull back further to go down..
Hey…What did Twain say ?
“Pull Up! Pull Up!”
amazing
For a private pilot certificate, why is spin training not required? Back when I learned to fly, staring in 1971, my CFI demanded it. How are we to know how to get out of one, if you're never trained?
Scott, does the data allow for Venn diagrams that allow for the overlap of these causes. Some just screamed "they're connected!" to me: in the twins, mechanical failure of one engine leads to the LOC. Mechanical failure during take-off in any aircraft. And so on. The only cut and dry ones seem to be landing and flight into IMC: problems handling those sleak birds and going where you have no business going (without a rating).
A lot are definitely connected. That’s more work than I want to do;)!
Flying is a "skill". Recovering from spins is a "skill". "Skills" require training and practice to perform them well. Your idea is logical. I concur. Thanks.
Great video. On my ME checkride, the examiner made me go very deep into the VMC demo in a B-55 Baron. I was terrified.!
I understand in this litigious society not wanting to offer advice, but perhaps your disclaimer could be "this is what someone else said may help recover" or point us in the direction of the spin recovery technique.....it could save a life!
I hinted at it. Ask me that question when you see me next.
If it is the counterintuitive technique that I'm thinking about, it's almost more of a party trick than a legitimate spin recovery procedure. Certainly not anything that will save anyone's life who is less than a few thousand feet AGL.
I've actually seen the technique published in a aviation magazine, years ago.
Test pilot stuff.
Much better off to focus on avoidance....
My dad was an airline pilot and I worked reparing jet engine parts For 41 and a 1/2 years and people would always talk to me about the bonanzas. They weren't pilot's. They would always blame the V tail for the crash.
I used to do PARs back when I was carrying troops on the L10-11 into American military bases in Japan. In fact I’d request them for practice. As you said they can be very accurate with a good controller when the ILS isn’t available or not working. I also recall always being out of fuel when flying to Japan from the west coast so a good PAR in the crappy weather of Japan was nice!
I flew a Flying Tigers’ DC8 on one of those military freedom birds way back when.
My uncle landed a Baron in Tampa Bay in 1975(?). Reason? Tampa Air Traffic control gave him incorrect radar altimeter data (300 feet low) at the start of his approach in very heavy fog. All three on board survived, touching down about a mile short of the runway. He had flown 32 missions in a B-24 over Germany and that was the first time he had ever been scratched in an airplane. He maintained (at touchdown) it was the smoothest landing he had ever made. Until it wasn’t….they were picked up by a lobster boat a few minutes later. I still miss that airplane. Great aircraft.
Fantastic series! Thanks for collecting data, chewing on it and sharing your perspective. Fuel issues seems like the super-low-hanging-fruit here.
Scott
Love the subject and the way you present information, No one can know it all Minor note 56 were powered by Lycoming TIO-540-E1B4, Travel Airs were BE95. To confuse matters the BE55/95 is both a Travel Air also a Baron. Than there is a Travel Aire..........
Great video! Completely agree with comments about spin training. About the F-4 landing... as I understand it, you could see the runway. With the runway in sight and 12k feet available, no sweat. Great idea to key the mike though the controller was trying his best to help, he didn't have your view out of the cockpit. Thanks but no thanks is always an option.
Thanks Walt.... indeed You need the runway environment, or lights. I had the runway, it just was not what I was expecting/wanting to see.
@@FlyWirescottperdue My dad flew B-47's and once made a very hairy (bingo fuel) landing at an alternate in England after a transatlantic flight on TDY. The fact that he had a weapon aboard made for very stressful landing... made successfully only when his co-pilot spotted the runway. I believe it was a GCA approach and 3rd attempt.
Thanks so much for the insight! It’s been a long long time since Tweety Bird spin tests at Edwards and no matter how many times it happens…spins… the visceral reaction for most people is the same and that’s unfortunately catastrophic. Really appreciate your videos!
✅6
V tail 35, 30 years ago, Fuel would have been my report: Long cross country Shannon VA to KRHV. multi-able fuel stops, two pilots. Human factors101, checklist not followed. Fuel starvation when lineman marshaling for parking, could have been on final:/.. failed to switch to mains during Descent. Thanks for the video.
You, sir, were fantastic. I appreciated the info, the delivery and even the dry sense of humor. I'd like to get my PPL in my own plane, so I have been reviewing what to purchase, and Bonanza's are on the list. But as you say, training is very important and finding a teacher such as yourself will be difficult. I know a bit of math and statistics also and understand how good the database needs to be to draw more detailed conclusions.
Does LOC-IF = stalls?
Loss of Control Inflight
Hey Scott. Appreciate you taking the time to put all of this data together. Great video.
Exactly, I've got a few hours in upset recovery EA300 and videos are on my channel, I always recommend going to do upset recovery and lots of it so it does not scare you.
Well I guess if you never land, those number would be so much better-ha!!
Great video Mike. I fly Piper so I’m looking forward to that video and what you uncover on those aircraft.
Scott you are the best !! Tremendous video. Thank you 🇺🇸🇺🇸🍀🇺🇸🇺🇸
Inre gear-up landing has pilot ever lowered the gear at the last second and landed with the gear partially lowered?
In my case...gnashing of tooth. Curse you, sour patch gummies. You're not a kitten doing cute stuff, but you do make me smile...and think. Thanks for doing what you do, Scott. I've said it before, but I'll say it again...I love spin/upset/unusual attitude training. It's not just educational...it's fun.
In Canada, starting with the PPL, spin recovery training is mandatory. Of course, spin avoidance is also taught. Your spin video is the view I would see spinning a 172. The visual and physical sensations are extreme and would probably overwhelm the uninitiated and you can't experience that in a sim. Spins are one of those things that you have to try before you know how you will react. 1000 feet goes by in a flash, even with perfect recovery technique and in my mind, nothing is more effective than that, at hammering home the importance of speed control and coordinated flight in the curcuit.
Do you have any data on V35B N21MD accident? Please advise.