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Sailing The Needles (in 30 knts)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2020
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This week on sailing Cadoha, we set sail for Yarmouth, via the Needles Channel and get slightly caught out by a breaking wave amidst higher wind strength than expected. we accidentally gybe the boat and have a slightly sticky spot that we're left reflecting on ever since. We call upon the collective wisdom of our experienced sailing viewership to help us learn and grow ready for our next outing, sailing the waters of the Great British Isles.
![Boat lift out [DIY Failure!]](/img/n.gif)
Would be a lot easier to explain verbally rather than write but here goes.
Your boat pivots round the keel, (the center of lateral resistance) Basically about two feet aft of your mast and about 3 or 4ft below the waterline.
So anything PUSHING aft of this point will tend to turn the boat one way or the other.
Couple this to the heel of the boat due to following sea and you will find that the boat will turn to port as the boat heels to starboard and versa vica.
In your video the mainsheet was sheeted in around half way when sailing downwind.
Three issues with that -
1, The center of effort of the sail would be aft of your center of lateral resistance and hence the boat would want to turn. (usually into the wind)
2, As she turns the following sea would then fall on the quarter
of the stern resulting in increasing the rate of turn.
3, Rate of turn increases heel which increases the rate of turn still further.
To add to your woes you were also running your engine, which if in gear would result in even more power aft of your pivot point increasing all the above!!
Trying to fly the jib with the main up, downwind, in a blow, without a pole, is as you have found out, a pain in the proverbial.
The jib is in disturbed air from the main and is probably working at 20% efficency in those conditions.
The solution to ALL your probelms would have been to drop the main.
The Jib effectivly pulls you along, the power being way forward of your pivot point.
The jib will fly well without the mainsail ruining the airflow, though it would be even better with a pole.
One tip is (assuming you have dropped the main and its tied down) to let the main boom right out, using your preventer.
Then run the jib sheet round the end of the main boom.
This acts pretty much like a wisker pole.
You should sail more with just the jib as I think you will find that in your boat you can achieve 75 to 80% of your boat speed just under jib with added safety and easier control.
My hull speed is 7knts, similar to yours and in 12knts of wind I can sail at 6 to 6.5knts under jib alone, no need for the main sail.
Hope this helps.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Good work Judge Pickles.
Great info, thanks for taking the time to write it all out.
I’ve never thought of using the main as a whisker pole. Great idea.
great explanation. thanks
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I sail a traditional gaff cutter. One thing I would suggest you consider when downwind sailing is always sail with the wind on the quarter, not dead aft. Tom Cuncliffe advocates this as safer and actually faster and you avoid the possibility of an unvoluntary gybe. Headsail only is fine but if you do need to turn round into the wind you will need to rehoist the main, not the easiest thing to do in any real sea. If sailing in strong wind conditions downwind I personally would advocate keeping both heads sails and mainsail hoisted but with the mainsail reefed to its fullest extent and as I say don't sail dead downwind, rather with the wind on the quarter, much much safer.
Still the best music of any sailing channel. Godspeed CaDoHa
If the needles main channel is looking like it did in your video, take the north channel every time, both going East or West. It takes 10 minutes longer and so much safer. Just make the decision nice and early. Coming back from Poole / Studland Bay it's hardly a detour at all and if you are going West its a turn to Starboard just after Hurst Castle. Please keep up the posts as its our favorite TH-cam Sailing channel. And if you ever need someone to dog sit Hank count me in☺
It’s taken me a long tome to get my wife ok with sailing I’ve done that by being careful we came back from Salcombe in 30 knots from behind. Just used the Genoa. I always just use the Genoa in very windy conditions from behind. She feels very safe and never complains. (Well almost) loving the videos.
It is official. You are my favourite sailing TH-cam channel. Fantastic epic music, smart,clear, not pretentious comments. Love the boat , love you guys. Keep up with the awesome work.
Nice to see Medallia in the background. Pip is doing a brilliant job right now on the VendeeGlobe. Allex Pip!! And really good to see you have a method sorted for the fuel contam. Well done.
Hi, Love your videos, especially the dog thought captions, I live on my 40ft steel sloop in Lymington, not far away, keep away from the Needles channel in anything more than a light breeze, the chart has a note warning you about the area around Bridge Buoy, a better way is through the North channel close to Hurst castle, you can go close to the shore there too as it is deep close to the beach, there is a Green Buoy further West, keep inshore of that on your approach or exit, that will keep you clear of Shingles Bank
Downwind in heavy seas is better with just a small headsail on it's own for cruisers and will fill better as it won't be shielded by the main and will have a lifting effect rather than a downward force on the boat, it will also be less rolly as the sail will help to keep the boat moving better through the water and create a resistance in the mast to the wind.
Always attach your Preventer to the very end of the Boom, never the middle, then lead it to the Bow and then back to a winch not a cleat, so that you can ease it off gently in an accidental gybe.
Apologies if you have been told any of this already, bye the way, keep your fenders and ropes away from the exhaust of your heater as they will melt.
Sorry if I sound like a know it all but just trying to help.
Regards Mark.
You don’t sound like a ‘know it all’ in the pejorative sense, you sound like a know it all in the ‘that’s just the kind of help we love hearing’ sense.
Really appreciate the time you take and the detail you went into, we’ve learnt more from the comments on our vlogs than just about anywhere else, so seriously, thank you for your time and input 🙏🙏⛵️
@@CadohaAdventures Hi, I take my preventer right to the front of the boat to a block, outside of the shrouds but inside the Genoa sheet, the long rope and angle will allow the boom to rise if it touches the water at speed.
If you take it through the cleat midships and you gybe then you can rip out the stanchions from the deck.
I then take mine back to the Genoa winch that is not in use at the time, then I can get to it quickly and ease it slowly whilst letting the mainsheet take over the load, there will be a lot of weight on it if you gybe and the boat will be out of control, you need to get to it in a hurry.
Attach to the boom with a large bowline or a short strop so that you can reach to connect or disconnect it with the boom fully out whilst you are standing on deck.
my email: cptmfisher@gmail.com if I can help more.
Love the music in the drone shots! Well done springing off that dock...you won’t be able to call yourselves ‘clueless’ much longer!
Great video as always! Lots of great advice here; my comments are:
In windy downwind conditions, we would just use the headsail - much easier to manage and gybe, and you will go as fast as having just the main in those winds. Plus it’s easier to reef if needed.
Flying sails goose winged tends to be suitable for stable seas and predictable winds - approaching the Needles is neither!
The wind tends to accelerate through the Needles especially if from west / southwest direction - anticipate beforehand that this will happen.
Over falls around Bridge are generally to be respected - gybing with a main there in strong winds with 2 of you is full on (I’ve done it with crew, sheeting the main in fully before each gybe but it’s a lot of work!)
We would have used the North Passage in those windy conditions and especially having left from Poole. Get used to going through there as well as going through the Needles - it’s a safer passage in a strong west or southwest wind.
Use online live wind information to check out what is going on where - you get acceleration zones around the needles, hurst castle, calshot spit etc and once you know this, it helps you anticipate what you need to do when passage planning and setting sails.
Great job spronging in Yarmouth.
Thank you very much for your openness showing us the tricky bits!
love hanks outfit,. You learned something serious about using lines to maneuver the boat at the dock, good on you.
Good spronging! The perfect solution for that situation, nice work. Yarmouth can be tricky - fast tide. I've been kicked around the Needles plenty of times and I've seen a pro race boat stuck on the Shingles. Every day's a school day...it's sailing. Loving the videos, well done.
Love this! More content like this on how to get off a pontoon in windy Yarnmouth is so interesting and helpful! Thanks for sharing ⛵️
We have watched SO many sailing channels from the big dogs to the up and comers and the newbies just getting going. I have to say that you guys are absolutely one of the BEST! First of all, you're both just adorably likeable, clever and funny. Your humor comes across as genuine and not rehearsed and I love that. Your personalities remind me of myself and my boyfriend. Your videos are really well done, also and as a former music major I absolutely love and appreciate the music that you choose! The lovely, theatrical and somewhat classical music just gives your channel a completely different feel, without being snooty or high-brow about it. We are sailing the Caribbean so if you guys ever get the itch to cross the Atlantic please reach out. We'd love to have a beer or a fruit drink with you! Love to handsome Hank as well! Keep doing what you're doing! 😁👍💙
looking forward to the restart of your adventure ,hopefully sometime next year . Brilliant channel ,great photography , and you two are just everday normal peeps.
You tube rammed with so many smiley ,wide eyed ,look at us arent we amazing types , rebuilding and sailing their first boat ,like they are the first to ever try this.
I love the way you just keep it real .
Another great video look at your confidence grow when you came off the pontoon in Yarmouth. Sometimes if you can’t film don’t worry because it’s ok not to film everything you’re more important. Dom it was nice to see you composed when entering the needles channel when the unexpected happened. Keep up the great work was we love to see you following your dreams. Steve
Thanks for sharing and being open to learning new skills or to seek advice when required. 😀👍⛵️
Congrats you seemed very cool after the accidental gybe, great job springing and once again superb music - loved the spinning winch handle holstering in perfect time at 15:18 !
Love your channel, always look forward to new entries... Keep the videos coming, we'll catch you up soon! Hank is such a Star, so fun sailing with dogs, if a little more work, some of the best things in life are not easy - hope to see you out there one of these seasons!
Great video, really enjoyed it. Beautiful music towards the end.
Love the vid. Worts and all. Nice to see the real life not so nice stuff. Hank doesn’t seem like he was too concerned.
Turns out that Hank is more chilled on the boat in pretty much all conditions so far than we are. The only thing that gets stressful for him is toilet time on board.
You doing fine Cadoha...!
I sailed several years on a Bayfield 26 in the Quebec Saint Lawrence river.
I agree that downwind is also my lease loved sailing allure because the boat is flashing around and rolling!
And when the channels are narrow...with cargo traffic...jibing all the time is a pain!
Glory to a lovely closed sail with the top side rail in the water and the rudder vibrating with happiness!!!
Cheers
Love the way you explain the situation and the sailing strategies and then ask the community for help. Too many sailing channels (although I enjoy them too) are not enough about sailing.
I'm from Southampton, now live in Sydney, we are also pretty new to sailing and really enjoy your vlogs.Looking at the conditions/weather i would recommend that you sail straight to Sydney, i think you would all enjoy it immensely! keep up the good work! cheers Neil.
Great boat & an interesting video. If you have 30 knots of wind you don’t need a mainsail & you will have more control & no worries of gybing. I also prefer the North channel when entering the Solent as the Shingles breaks up any waves that build up & you tend to be sailing on a broad reach which is much more comfortable. A retired Lifeboat Coxswain said that if the weather is bad the North Channel is the one to use.
Also you should never be shy or embarrassed to ask the Harbour Master to pull you off of a difficult berth. My Nic 35 does not go in reverse & yes I have sprung the boat off in ideal conditions but I will not risk causing damage to myself or other boats. They are extremely helpful & efficient & i has used them many times. You did very well getting off & it all went well. All the best to you both including the dog & May see you around the Solent in 2021.
Appreciate the feedback and there certainly seems to be a consensus on the north channel. We didn't expect the weather to be that bad, but we have once again learnt a couple of valuable lessons after sharing our journey with everyone 😬🙏🏻⛵️
Well done on getting off the dock. Thanks for sharing this great video 👍🍺😎🇿🇦
Its all experience and good experience, I can't believe how calm you were Dom. Glad you are all ok.
There are people who will come and clean your tank in situ with a mobile unit. Thank you for sharing your experiences. Best wishes
Hi Doug and Carly, your drone flying and filming is getting very good..I really enjoy watching your vids , safe sailing and keep on with it..cheers Brian
I didn't see any embarrassing situation. You are in the learning lines like we all. Please do not worry about it...
With 30 knots in downwind I prefer sail with the Genoa only and without the whisker pole to make things simple.
In this case mainsail will make a shadow in the Genoa who make trim it a lot difficult.
I'm sorry about my english...I am still learning too...
Fantastic video...as usual.
Just head sail. It really doesn't dig the bow down and is much more manageable and easy to shorten. Great video's, love your honesty. Never change that.
You have a following because of the crazy good story telling skills you have. Great job again.
Another great video. Thanks for sharing your adventures. I really like your choice of soundtracks. Not the typical hippity-hoppity sh-tuff. Oh, and Hank's looking particularly smart in his sailor suit. Safe travels.
Ten seconds into video, click thumbs up. Why? These vids are consistently good.
We've all been there, Dom. Accidental Jibes can and do happen to the best of us. When delivering or using other people's boats now, I go ahead and rig that "old school" preventer as part of the preparation to sail process. On my own boat, I have found that the use of a boom brake has taken all of the surprise and violence out of the equation. The brake was fitted when I bought my boat from the previous owner. Left up to my own devices, I probably would not have ever discovered the security of having one.
Great work springing off that dock! A tricky maneuver that few new sailors understand or do. I especially liked the winch handle flip at the mast. Very Cool!
Its all about how you handle stressfull situations, and you Sir, are cold as ice) well done both) 👍
Another great video. I know nothing about sailing but I find your videos very entertaining.
Great episode! Really enjoyed it👌⛵️
OMG Hank looks Adorable in his cold weather gear🥰 Great video guys ❣️❣️ A little scary 😧 but glad you three are Ok ✅ Beautiful music and scenery 😍 Stay safe and much respect and love 💕
The Needles Channel has eaten more than a few boats in the past - it can be wonderful in some conditions but hell on earth another day. I always treat it with the utmost respect!
I've got to say if the wind is gusty, strong or at all variable then headsail only is probably your safest, easiest, and best bet. I have a whisker pole, for 'wing on wing', it's really useful and helps in a gentle breeze but I'd ditch it at 16+ knots, it will help keep the speed up in gentle airs. The more you sail the more experience you'll get and you'll find what works best for you. I'm a fan of using the main as much as possible when the wind is off the nose, unless we're talking storm force and I've run out of reefs! Keep up the good work guys!
Oh very good. We live in Southampton and my parents live on the island and have a boat at Yarmouth (the harbor team their are brilliant). Watched to the very end and thought wow it really can be beautiful where we live.
Subscribed!!
Watching people struggle to maneuver in the harbor makes me appreciate that my boat drives like a sports car. It just goes where you point . Backs up the same, virtually no prop walk - love it . Has a Bukh saildrive and it is fin keel .
Sailing while most aren't, good on you. Great honesty and enjoying life, fair winds to you all 👍⛵
Unless you have an ample 'crack racing crew', keep it simple and forget poling out the headsail in anything more than 'light airs' on a sunny day. Better to fly it loose and change your course slightly to keep the wind where you want it, you'll probably go faster VMGanyway. Downwind in a blow always better with minimum or even no main, balance towards headsail. Some main is advisable in case you need to heave-to to gather your thoughts. Next time you're going downwind in 30 knots, try under headsail only, then wind it in and see how fast you go under bare poles (but don't try it going through overfalls - open or sheltered water is OK though). Great series, making me miss my sailing days!
Nice video and a nice spring off the dock.
Beautiful editing at the end!
Good job getting off the pontoon. As recent newbies, we know, and share that great feeling of, 'Hey, that bloody worked'. But Dont get stressed when it doesnt, as long as you have a line on, and a way back to the pontoon, and a rethink....
I’m fond of headsail only downwind when cruising. A lot safer and I’m not convinced you lose much speed
+1 Especially in lively conditions
Me too particularly a furling headsail as you can increase or decrease at will. But very much depends on the boat and sail pattern. 30Kn is brisk but not uncommon here and easy to manage particularly down wind I have a video of a downhill sail in 35Kn and full control using only headsail. th-cam.com/video/6UcLSNwiymQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=JohnEdwards
Very much agree) 👍
My two cents: when downwind, the preventer is a must - ok, there are skippers who can perfectly steer wing-on-wing... but in a rough sea situation, I think it is a must. Once you have the preventer on, you can most focus on the jib. With whisker pole, you go faster. In high wind conditions, a staysail is much better than a jib - as it is closer to the mast, hence to the center of the boat. This comes handy at close hauled to broad reach .This advantage of the staysail can be coupled with a storm jib on it - which is lower, closer to the deck than a reefed jib.
Love the realness - we are learning too ;)
Fellow warrior owner here based not far from you guys- I dream of a boat that is predictable when reversing! Yarmouth can be tricky. Hope you’ve been to Newtown creek by now - it’s one of our favourite places
Undocking Badge earned! Well done!
Another brilliant video guys 👍 I look forward to seeing your videos now like they are new episodes of a best selling box set on Netflix 😆, now it could be that I’m easily entertained or most likely that your editing skills are getting to be first class😁 stay safe and all the best.
Another great video guys, nice to see Pip Hare's Imoca 60 "Medallia" looking fantastic in Poole.
Yep, now sailing round the world in the Vendée. Doing pretty well for an older IMOCA.
@@markphillips2076 its a fascinating race Mark, go Pip👍
Hi, Newtown creek MIND THE SUNMERGD WALL WITH RUNS ACROSS IT . yes off that bouye is full force, off the Atlantic winds . Well done in Yarmouth , another nice video ,stay safe . MERRY XMAS
Nice exit well executed. I have to confess I thought the wind was stronger than that and I was thinking 'turn her round'. I had a large thick fender pad about 1.5m x 1m (the height of the top sides) to sit under the fenders to stop them scrubbing the top sides during a long stay against a dirty quay or pontoon. Made of heavy vinyl with about 2" of foam, I would have hung it round the stem and sprung her round with the pad protecting the boat. You could try it with horizontal fenders but they are likely to ride up. Once turned round you stand a far better chance of springing out and driving away in a stiff blow. Fender pad is a good idea, protects the topsides, sunbathing mat, stuff it under the turn if the bulge if you accidentally decide to scrub off one side of the bottom (if you know what I mean!). With eyes at each corner you could even drag it under and secure it over underwater damage. Well done.
We really enjoyed your film and discovering your channel! V original! Although you are learning as you go along you both keep your cool and got yourself out of a situation calmly.
We raced across the North Pacific with 2 reefs in our main only crossing 5000nm into first place. Headsail only is a good option too but I think you can sail a steadier downwind course without the jib flapping with just the main- if you are confident with your preventer lines! (I use two now, a midships one and a bow of course ready for a quick release if needed). Or as you say, pole out your jib:) Your springing off technique was nicely done! What an inspiring journey to follow. You’ll be flying spinnakers before you know it! Well done to you both. A great story:)
Sophie
Oh buoy, that was close! Good job in getting out of that embarrassment!!
Hey guys
That can happen to us all. Good you had the preventer on, even loose it didn't allow the boom to crash into the rigging. No real problem and you did the right thing, stay calm and just get control of the boat again. Only thing when you gybe back you should have tightened the main sheet first to centre the boom, turn through the wind then ease the sheet out. In 30 knots better with just the genoa probably, gives better drive and lifts the bow where the main actually drives the big down. Also your boat on white sails cannot sail dead downwind, only a few monohulls can! Far better to gybe the angles and sail around 160 degrees. This will help keep the headsail stable.
Good one guys, I'm enjoying the videos and reliving my own terrifying moments... thanks for that! Having been through similar experiences, I now always sail downwind with the wind on the quarter as others have mentioned. Get into using your wind direction readout and don't go any deeper than say 150-155 degrees. Once you're deeper towards 160-170 degrees, you'll start to block your headsail anyway and you're towards the point where the boom can easily accidentally gybe. By all means, use a preventer, but practice sailing with the wind on the quarter and you won't put yourselves in this situation as easily. Plan your course with gybes rather than trying to do a straight line and having the wind directly behind. I'm not sure what size heasail you had up, but it looked fairly big the the wind speed to, a few rolls or a different heady wouldn't have gone amiss. If you get a chance to sail with someone using an asymmetric spinnaker it would be informative, as this is how you have to sail with them (wind on the quarter). Learn also how to do a granny gybe, very useful when you get caught with a lot of canvas up and a quick increase in wind speed, it allows you to turn into the wind to take a reef or drop the main without gybing the boom across. Also a big factor in the accidental gybe is the boat rolling to starboard with the waves, it changes the wind angle + gravity is pushing/rolling your boom towards starboard. It would have been safest to have reefed the main as the wind speed increased. 30 knots with full main is too much canvas. +1 for headsail only in these conditions as a reasonable tactic, personally I would do either, but if the main is still up it would have had 2 reefs in for those conditions. Do you have in your mind the wind speeds that you should reef? it's good to sort that out so when you hit say x knots, you know you should take a reef, then a second reef, etc. I know, from experience, that sometimes the wind increase happens so quickly that you don't have time to properly think things through. That's just part of the learning experience though. Next time in similar conditions, you'll be more alert and thinking about that reef or dropping the main altogether a lot sooner. You did know that you had weather on the way, so that's a good warning to be alert for an early reef. What do they say, if you think you might have to take a reef soon, then it's time to take a reef - it's great advice and a good discipline to practice. I definitely wouldn't pole out in those conditions.
For dead down wind, Drop the main or deep reef to have it work as a steadying sail and run on the headsail.
Well done guys, excellent and honest video! Hank is looking very dapper as well. It looked like you got out of Poole Town Quay very well and my only thoughts on heading into the Needles Channel is that you might have cut the corner a bit, being too close to the Shingles. We tend to take a wider arc into the Channel, depending on wind and sea state, but generally go closer to Bridge. But not being there means who knows what we would have done! You handled everything well, calmly and without drama so well done. You possibly had too much canvas up if you were in 30kt winds, but hindsight is avgreat thing. Spronging out of Yarmouth was done really well, again great to see you learning. We are getting great vicarious sailing enjoyment from watching all 3 of you. Keep up the great work 😀
Good on you. Getting solid hours under your belts which you need before trying to head off around the world. ⛵️🙏
Great of you to share and loved the video. In general, you want to balance your sails as this balances the stresses on the rigging and provides better steering ability. So, ideally in that situation, you would have the main reefed down and the genoa partially out on a whisker pole on the opposite side to the main. This would mean that the pressure is both fore and aft of the mast / keel and provides balance. However, lacking a whisker pole, then genoa only would be the way to go - it won't pull the nose down as centre of effort is much higher up.
I remember, a few years ago now, sailing just west of cowes in a charity pursuit race, we did a full-on Chinese jibe!!, toe rail and port windows in the drink and I was on foredeck duty with the spinnaker up and jib on the port rail !! That jib kept me dry lol 😆 great fun 😄
Great content as usual, lots of advice below and conflicting re main and Genoa although most would have used the Genoa. My preference would be Genoa only. Keep in mind during these conditions which ever you choose one would be easier to manage than both main and Genoa. Less stress with a small crew. Video production is excellent 👍
Gday from Gosport! Nice work leaving Yarmouth. We often sail downwind under deep reefed (trisail size) main and furl/unfurl the headsail to suit conditions. Keeping a little main up makes it much easier to hoist more if necessary. We don't carry a pole of any kind and only run dead downwind when absolutely necessary. Broad reaching is less rolly, less dangerous, more fun and VMG is often higher. Sheeting the headsail to the toerail helps on all 'cruising' wind angles. Preventers are nasty. We use a boom brake and it's got us out of trouble many times.
Oh and I would also suggest always having your sails ready to hoist before leaving the pontoon/bouy or lifting the anchor. You never know when it will cut out.
Adore your editing creativity. Quite exceptional.
Captain you are doing a good job....
I like to just use the head sail for down wind
My preference too. The boat pivots round the keel. The leech of the main pushes the back of the boat round causing you to broach. The jib just pulls you down wind. You can roller reef in and out to get just the right amount of power at any one time. Another great video/insight in to your lovely life, BTW.
Agree with Simon, it takes a lot of steering with the headsail, easier to use foresail. Genoa pole adds stability and doesn't exaggerate the roll like a collapsing/pulling jib can
Totally agree with all these comments. Additionally, you can reef, roll or lower a headsail downwind. Impossible with the mainsail.
Reminds me of a time we needed to sail from Lymington to Plymouth on delivery voyage. Let Lymington at dusk in a building SE and ended up with a gale pushing us sideways onto the shingles as we tried to thread the needle. Torn sails, broken gear, crew meltdown...it was certainly a time where experience and a calm head saved the day. We made it as far as Poole and came back the following weekend to finish the job. Lesson: do not sail to deadlines
Good comments here and well done to you both. My preference in those conditions would be for a reefed (or no) main and a full (or reefed) genoa. Reef until you stop feeling uncomfortable! In stronger breeze you dont need a whisker pole, the genoa will stay out and full under its own steam.
My husband and I just love your taste in music. Thank you for sharing and staying clear of the usual sailing channel music which is normally horrible.
I sail a dinghy and I have made the same passage as you but in better conditions. I suggest headsail-only downwind if you find the speed sufficient. I find a whisker pole is very good on my dinghy, and I even use it sometimes in light airs to hold the headsail in the correct position. If the wind really pipes up you might get along without any sail at all. I have also tried two headsails wind-and-wing with whisker poles and it works well, because with a single headsail there is still a degree of unbalance. The twins tend to go fast because they are perfectly balanced. It is the nearest we can get to a squares'l. I often use a preventer even on my dinghy, including when we have light winds and I want to keep the boom in position. But I think the preventer needs to be almighty strong yet quickly and certainly released. I don't think there is a place for a half hearted preventer, which could be dangerous. If you need more than headsails downwind and want a bit of mainsail, I suggest a small mainsail and big headsail, as this tends to make the boat self steer.
You're certainly right about a half hearted preventer, it could have gotten us into even more of a pickle and I suppose we're pretty lucky we got off pretty Scott free again.
Lots of lessons learned though, mostly thanks to so much great feedback here 😬🙏🏻⛵️⛵️
A poled out Genoa means someone has to go on to the foredeck to put it up and to remove it. We often just use our Genoa for downwind sailing if the wind is higher. Naughty - preparing the main after casting off. Get the halyard attached and the cover unzipped. Get it all ready before leaving. And for the engine use then engine check nemonic WOBBLES (water - seacock, header tank etc, oil level, belts, batteries, leaks, engine exhaust (contains water), smoke in exhaust. Good luck.
I agree with everyone who says foresail only for downwind sailing in 30 knots of wind. I know the area well as I used to keep my boat in Wareham and have done the trip to the IOW many times. I would suggest taking the North Channel from the entrance to Poole Harbour entering the Solent around Hurst Castle. This avoids the Needles Channel which can get very rough especially if you have wind against tide which I couldn’t quite work out was what you had. I enjoy watching your learning curve which is something we all went through at some time or other.
Dominic the reason your yacht 'generally kicks out hard to starboard' as you observed, is probably due to the direction in which your propeller rotates.
I have seen the mechanics of it explained thus.
At low speeds the rudder is relatively ineffective and also virtually always so while moving astern.
When power is applied at such times the deep side or 'lower edge' of the prop acts like a paddle wheel and pushes the stern in a direction relative to prop rotation.
This normally means that if your prop rotates in a clockwise direction while set to move ahead as viewed facing forrard from the stern.
Then the prop will tend to push your stern to starboard because due to a lack of dynamic effects due to forward motion the lower side is pushing laterally against the water to port.
If you have an engine configured in such a manner set to move astern then the offset thrust effect should then apply in the opposite direction.
Yachters often use this tendency to their advantage when possible.
For example if the inconvenient circumstances you encountered with the angle at which the landing in the marina was inclined were reversed, you could have used your prop to swing the stern out then a quick blip on the throttle in forward gear should then swing the bow around.
Once aware of this phenomenon you can elect to moor your yacht so that it is oriented in a fashion enabling you to better exploit this aspect of the boat's behaviour.
This can be particularly useful if you are moored in a crowded marina and need to swing your stern to pronounced extent to clear other moored vessels when departing.
Well done getting off that pontoon. It's a dark art!
Newtown Creek is best visited mid week. Very very crowded at weekends. As for getting off the pontoon in Yarmouth that looked ok but I would have walked boat back a few feet towards the pink boat in order to give yourself more space
Really enjoyed this video would liked to of seen more from the needles but loved the problem solving at yarmouth
A few locals have mentioned the use of the North channel which I agree with but also if you have enough tidal depth use East Loo channel coming out of Poole straight after the Chain ferry.
Coming around Hurst you can stay close in to avoid the Shingles but be aware of The Trap to also avoid.
With over 20-25knts through the Needles I'd use 2 reefs in the main plus furled headsail to get the right balance and control but in the event if a heavy gust and use the iron sail briefly. Better to be safe.
Don’t know your boat but I’d usually say, in a blow, headsail only would be your best and safest option. It keeps all flogging and banging up front and away from crew.
Mainsail only will generally cause the boat to rotate around the centre of combined lift and you’ll be fighting the boats urge to round up, head to wind. You’ll need to keep balanced with some headsail to prevent this. Does depend on the boat.
Thanks for posting.
Hi there! Thanks for sharing. You guys are doing great. A few thoughts:
Another vote for North Channel. Unless it’s a truly benign day, I always avoid Needles Channel.
I don’t recommend headsail only. Always prefer reefed main and reefed headsail ... keeps open more options if it’s unexpectedly essential to manoeuvre ... plus, with a scrap of main and well-rolled jib it’s easy to heave-to if an emergency arises; or if you just need to slow down to make a brew, have a pee or take stock.
On my boat I have a preventer on both sides of the main boom, permanently rigged through turning blocks at the deck edge abreast of the mast each side and led back to the cockpit. Except in the easiest conditions, I keep the leeward preventer taut. When gybing pull in the main sheet so the boom is under control.
Downwind, shorthanded, with a bit of a sea, keep the relative wind angle less than 160. Not worth trying to run dead downwind .... it’s mathematically slower and psychologically stressful.
Definitely avoid poling out the headsail if it’s choppy. Even a so-called ‘whisker pole’ can be a lethal, head-banging, human-toppling device if there’s any sea running.
Good luck with the fuel tank. As others have said, if it’s truly bad it needs steam cleaning. To date, I’ve managed to control mine with Marine 16.
Sail on!
WELCOME ABOARD! Toss the lines, set the sails ⛵, sit back & everything is peachy.
But, what really happens 😲
👍
you are so brave ! my dream is living in sailboat since my childhood
I liked your springing off maneuver, I grew up sailing a boat that only did one thing when engine was in reverse too! But we would have turned the boat around into the wind on the dock by hand. But great to practice springing off.When it’s the only option it’s a great tool to have in the locker! Cheers Warren
Interesting...how would you have tunred the boat round by hand safely? Just curious - might learn something :-)
Chris Swinnerton ,oh it’s quite easy you attach a line to the opposite side that will be the new upwind side against the dock. Then disconnect everything and push the current up wind side of boat off and haul on the long line and let boat flip around and hook it around the cleat upwind and pull boat along side , might need an extra line rigged.
Try it with a small dinghy first it’s really quite easy and safe ! Hope that make sense if not I.can post something cheers Warren
@@CheersWarren Excellent, many thanks Warren. Simple but effective. Thats really good to know. Thanks for the reply :-)
👍 Cheers Warren
Great video! Sailing-wise in conditions such as these (or worse): Just drop the main and regulate the size of your roller genoa for speed, comfort and ease of handling. I wouldn’t bother with a spreader boom, that is more useful when the main is on the opposite side. The windier it gets, the easier you want to keep things...
I still can picture the day we ‘surfed’ through the needles channel. Wind and tide behind us and the sea towering over us astern!
Fun part of videos is I can pause it and wonder how I'd get off the pontoon in Yarmouth. Before I press play, I'd say slip on the bow, motor in reverse against it to get water flowing over the rudder then, when it looks like you have control then slip and go like hell. Okay! Lets see what you did!! Oh! I'll watch that again - interesting solution. Cheers guys
Hornblower meets the Keystone Cops, and all set to the soundtrack from Gladiator - what's not to like?
What's not to like? - Trustafarian yuppie clickbait is not to like.
@@lauravaverages5451 What a mean-spirited and spiteful thing to say. If you don’t like it, watch something else!
Why be negative. Ive seen the ginger ninja driving around in his works van in Southampton #thinkbeforetypingmush
After a couple of really bad situations Luff up to drop the main after being on a run for 6-7 hours I now only sail on a run with the head sail if the weather or sea are really bad. Get a book called Manoeuvring at close quarters under sail
In heavy wind, downwind on a cruiser/live aboard I suggest headsail only- reefed if over 25kts if over 35kts change to staysail only. If sailing in the trades I’ve seen two headsails wing on wing using wisker poles
Also fine to have mainsail only, but boat will roll much more- and more work maintaining course, prevent jibes etc.
We don’t use the main Channel into the Solent, unless racing. Always take the inner channel - it gives you surprising relief from any swell and in a SW wind you are not direct downwind. Pops at at Hurst Narrows where there is a moderate but short rip, then happy days. Forget whisker poles with two on board. Perhaps smaller reef on the main and keep your fingers off it when you gybe.
For leaving Yarmouth we would have walked the boat up the pontoon, past the bend. Spring forwards to move the stern out. Then much easier for an astern depart.
Happy Sailing..
Us too. I wouldn't do the main channel in 30 knots of wind. "Too spicy" i think is the modern vernacular.
In the old days we'd read books. That is before the internet (I know its unimaginable!) I remember reading that the needles channel isn't good with a 6 in the forecast. Adlard Coles would talk about the needles channel in a 6 with wind against tide as extreme sailing!
I guess TH-cam hasn't caught up yet. Reinventing via inexperience.
À double reefed main and staysail would work well in those conditions. To get off the pontoon in reverse, spring lime the bow, crank wheel to port in reverse,let go bow line once you are pointing towards channel. This gives you options to keel steering in reverse or start turning forward.
Lovely boat and videos
Just another tip.
Think, genoa is my engine and the mainsail is my balance...
Regards
Hi Dom and Carly, I read thru an Interesting selection of comments, so I'll add some additional thoughts.
I liked seeing you sailing with a reefed mainsail and reefed Genoa on this trip for an important safety reason. You were going thru the relatively narrow channel of the needles/western solent with strong tides, winds and tricky sea state in the narrows. Without the mainsail you would not have been able to make any progress to windward if for any reason you had to avoid some obstruction( shallows , nav. mark , large ship who knows). It's a place you could get into trouble fast thru navigation error, gear failour , engine failour , whatever.
The suggestions to use just a head sail, or pole out the head sail or even use a preventer are not good seaman ship in a seaway like that. For the same reasons as above if you had to gybe or hardenup on the wind all the preventers and poles would mean somebody going on deck to clear them away probably after you made the maneuver when everything was going to hell and a hand basket and the rail was under water!. Much safer to keep your options open.
On that preventer for the mainsail, have you noticed boats do or did not come with preventers pre rigged? Why? because they are not intended to stop your mainsail gybing from inattention to steering or conditions. They are rigged as temporary devices when setting up on a long run down wind when you have plenty of searoom , using auto pilot probably etc . Or the conditions are light and you can outrun the wind and the main wants to gybe. When you accidentally gybed from the wave conditions and the preventer was not rigged tight the main still gybed and became the new mainsheet holding the main in too tight for going down wind and would try to make the boat round up and go beam on to the wind and waves in a loss of control situation. Nasty , save the preventer for plenty of searoom situations and avoid running by the lee when crash gybes can happen.
Bottom line you were rigged up right except forget the preventer in situations when you might need to tack/gybe in a hurry. Cheers Warren
Ps if your preventer is rigged far forward and is a single line and tight, not on a winch it's not going to do the job you want. If the main dug hard in the water thru excessive heal ( to port) the load on the preventer could break the line, rip the block off the deck rail ,or if you did get it off the cleat the line might go in the water and get wrapped around the prop just as you were trying to do something exciting ! The preventer needs to be as strong as the mainsheet to do its job properly ......think about it. 👍
Probably TMI.....
Your more recent vids are so much more polished. You speak better, slower and the audio far clearer. You have come a long way. Great to see how your production skills have evolved. Well done.