Is Humminbird going OUT OF BUSINESS?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.พ. 2025
- I just read an article of Johnson Outdoors financial situation. Let me know what y'all think in the comments below!
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I install electronics and do some teaching. What i think is hurting bird:
Everything is limited by software options. Have a $3000 helix and want to do custom screens? Nope. Want a top and bottom split with SI and mapping? Maybe they will give you some very limited options. Have a lowrance live and want a custom screen split of anything you can imagine? They have it.
Want to network your birds? Buy a bird network cable. ...but wait!! Even though its a bird network cable, it doesnt actually connect to a graph. You need a $40 dongle to attach to the cable that is made specially for your unit. Wtf??? Nickle and dime me to death!!
Bird hung their hats on 360. Perspective/scout destroys 360. Live is just awful. The videos ive seen of live 2; its still awful. Its slightly less awful than it was.
Bird has some great maps. Lakemaster is the only (mostly) complete map of my home lake, ross barnett. Garmin, lowrance, navionic, etc have barnett maps with miles and miles of water with no contour lines at all. If you fish ross barnett, you better have birds for mapping.
Just to be clear... i have been the biggest bird supporter i know since i bought my first SI (a 797) that i paid over $2000 for back in the day. I have owned MANY birds and still have 2 helix on my boat. ...because i have to to have a map of barnett.
Agreed completely. I'll also add....you want to have your Lakemaster map on multiple screens? Oh, youre going to need to buy a card for each unit. Completely ridiculous.
I'm thinking about buying an old bird just for maps at the Rez. Other than that. It's Garmin for me.
I have a garmin ultra lvs34 up ft and a Helix 12 Gen3+ at the dash.
I was thinking about adding 360 with a new helix 12 gen4+ and another Gen4+ both at Ft
If I understand discontinued, so should I scrap that idea go Garmin
Funny .... all these "issues" are non-existent with the newer Solix/APEX/Xplore lines. But hey, let's focus on the lower-priced model line that has been around for 12+ years. Wait ... they're are being discontinued!
@@jschneider65 I didnt really see that as the point of the discussion. like it or not, repeat sales, word of mouth, customer sentiment, churn, etc is based largely on feelings. Feelings are usually based on past experience. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on humminbird graphs. I have owned nearly every gen since side imaging came to be. I think that makes me a good customer.
I FEEL like humminbird doesn't care if i am happy with their products. I FEEL like they have nickel and dimed me to death. I KNOW that in the past, they have limited their products in the UI just to drive you to the higher end units. I think they have slipped as an industry leader. I think they sat in a conference room and made a choice based on some metric that they could sell enough new units to make up for the helix customers that this non-compatibility will alienate. not networking helix with apex, solix, explore is a choice to drive upgrades. I think the keyword is "supported". most likely, these units WILL talk to each other (unless they have specifically written software to prevent it) at least enough to share waypoints. "unsupported" doesn't mean something doesn't work. it means they wont help you if it doesn't.
this is what really matters: I am a (former) loyal customer. as of right now, I will have 0 plans of ever buying another product with their name on it. no. I don't think they care. (thats kind of the problem) I do hope they will make some effort to improve their current image. at this time, I haven't heard anything from them that indicates acknowledgement of a problem.
I think they people who bought helix 12 MSI units in the past 12-18 months will have a bad attitude about them being discontinued/unsupported/incompatible in the future. .....but thats just me. what do I know? this is all just my opinion.
Whoever discontinued the Helix needs to go away, probably the #1 selling graph ever.
Love my Solix . It turns on within 60 seconds .
Love my Solix as well
Garmin Ultra 2 turns on and completely done at 30 seconds...
@@mrmechanic434gpsmap and echomap are faster but bird still have better transducer , mega 360 and now ml2 which looks just like lvs 34 or even better.
@megabassg5831 i see ml2 look alike 32. Not 34 at all. New Transducer called lvs36 is coming. I bet will be top once again.
@@mrmechanic434 one of my friends compare lvs 34 vs ml2 already and said ml2 is better. I already see how much better ml2 track baits and also most important for me have better bottom separation than lvs 34 .
Dealer here and I dont remeber the last time I sold a bird. H-bird has dug its own grave, think about how long the Helix has been around without a touch screen. Popularity has shifted from Bird to Garmin. Meanwhile Garmin is aquiring new companies and they were also focused on the Saltwater market for many years, then 2017 they shifted and look at them now
I just bought a new Skeeter with one Helix 9 and 7. I was thinking of swapping out the 7 with an xplore 10 but now I'm considering Garmin after learning all of this. Man, this is my first bass boat and I have owned ocean boats running Garmin and have always liked them. This makes me think I'll consider not going xplore and grab a Garmin and slowly do a complete changeover. Its a big deal for me when the Helix is not compatible with the xplore. Might just run what I have for a while and hold off on the xplore upgrade and see how things play out over the next six months. Also, on top of that I'm looking at the Lakemaster cards and the Helix card is not compatible with the xplore or they haven't updated the information after the xplore release. It leaves us with deciding to go Apex and spend big money or do do a complete change out. Or the third option that we just buy up all the cheep inventory on the leftover helix units and run them into the ground. I'm sure they would like that as well. Maybe they planed that way. They don't want a bunch of inventory they cant sell.
I understand the concerns about the Helix line being discontinued, I believe it's important to distinguish between discontinuing a product line and abandoning customer support. From what I understand, Johnson Outdoors plans to continue providing service and support for existing Helix owners. This seems like a reasonable business decision that balances necessary product evolution with customer care. In my personal experience, Johnson Outdoors has consistently demonstrated strong commitment to customer service. Change in product lines, while sometimes disappointing, is a normal part of business evolution, especially if the company maintains their support for existing customers.
I run 4 Helix 12s with ML1 and Mega 360. The ML1 has been quirky and quit working due to a crack in the wiring where it enters the transducer. So now I have a decision to make. I’ll need to get a new screen along with the new ducer regardless of what brand I buy. Nothing will network with my existing Helix units. Hello Garmin.
I think 8.5% interest on a new boat loan with a FICO8 of 800+ is a slow but growing deterrent for the entire marine industry. I'm also guessing that's the biggest market for new electronic sales.
I'm using 4 Helixs all networked. It's a $13k change to Xplore + ML2 with TargetLock & I don't have FFS yet. It's been my dilemma. I may bite the bullet though & do an overall upgrade... $13 for a rip & replace is a huge pill to swallow no matter what.
Johnson is also probably looking at the long game, not the next quarter or 2.
I completely agree. Johnson Outdoors has been hurting for a while now. I personally feel like they've forgotten to be innovative. They were the first to do spot lock tech and it was revolutionary. Unfortunately, others joined in and took some market share. They seemed to become complacent with the tech they had and completely miscalculated the need to improve and Garmin side swiped them. Competition is a good thing for the consumer but there will come a point where operating a business in the capacity that they are, will not be tolerated by investors.
Unfortunately, I dont think they'll be able to re-gather enough market share to be sustainable. They've pissed off too many people.
I'm one of the ones that pissed off. Going to refurbish my whole boat with garmin. So long hummingbird.
I have 2 helix units on my boat, I just pre-ordered 2 of the Explorer systems. I like HB and will stick with their products
I have a helix 10 and 12 and a 12" garmin unit for live scope. zero complaints from my humminbird units.
While helix graphs were beyond dated (especially for the price), and mega live 1 was a bad product, my final straw was reliability. I simply cannot get humminbird products to work consistently. Never had an issue with my garmin stuff....
Truth. Thank you for speaking truth, brother.
I think all the fishing industry is suffering because of inflation it’s not just hummingbird.
I been wanting a ultrex and have the cash but with things going on in our country just ain’t spending 4000 $ .
I come from the computer/IT world. Whenever you have 2 or more prevalent technologies that are entirely incompatible, there will eventually be a winner and a loser, with the loser eventually winding up with a tiny slice of the pie, and that's if they stick around at all. In computer networking, it was Microsoft versus Novell. Both products were good, but Microsoft networking interfaced more easily with a bunch of other products, so it won out. Seeing this same thing play out with a "boat network" is kind of interesting, but also a little tragic. I really like Minn Kota trolling motors, but it's very clear that Humminbird has been behind and playing catch-up in the sonar/"live" imaging world for decades. They used to be a good value, but with the cost of all of these things becoming absolutely ABSURD...they can no longer rely on moving a lot of product at lower margins. Whether or not they will still be around in 5 years is hard to say, because all sectors of the boating industry are struggling as a result of rampant inflation.
Good read. You covered it well.
I'm longtime Johnson customer. Ultrex Quest, TargetLock, Live, Mega 360, and 3 Helixes. The Mega Live 2 would have given me all I'll need...but now I have to replace control heads. Gets expensive. If the side imaging wasn't so good they could lose me to Garmin or Lowrance.
No doubt bird SI is good, but garmin and lowrance are right there imo.
I run all 3 brands and the market share for SI that Bird had is gone. Garmins GT56 transducer and the Lowrance AI transducer are so good and close to Bird's, its easy to leave Bird and switch for better benefits...IMO.
I have always been a Hummingbird guy, love em! Have a Garmin Livescope on my bow plus a Helix. I also have a Helix at the console. With the current economy and Hummingbird just making Helix obsolete, I don't have the money to buy two new 12" graphs! I think they did it to make us guys running the older units have to turn around and buy an Apex or an Explorer in order to generate more revenue! Shouldn't have pissed me off like that because now I'm switching everything over to Garmin, even though their mapping stinks!
I have the Helix brand units on my boat, I have had no problems with them!
I think it's more about not being compatible with the new units and ml2
I bought my Helix 9 early 2024. I bought the Mega Live 1 - 2 months ago. I wish I knew about Mega Live 2 before I dished out $$$ but buyer’s remorse. Humminbird should still support the Helix models at least the G4’s.
Bad timing, The prices had gone down and was time to research as that is usualy a hint.
@ That’s why I bought both. Saved $500 on each one lol
Explore units need to talk to all the other Humminbird units be for I would buy one.
Helix was best for simplicity but the megalive weren't worth the money and the reputation of megalive has hurt. And you're exactly right about customers rebooting to the explorer, personally if I have to change it'll be to garmin all the way around.
Hummingbird, you should hired a CEO that is a fisherman. Not a number cruncher. This is why many corporations that went under. good luck hummingbird just switched to Garmin.
Hummingbird dropped the ball several years ago with Mega Live, when Garmin handed them a blow with Live Scope. You would figure HB would've said, we are not going to let this happen, yet they did. The reason the Helix was so popular was its ease of use.
Big mistake not making it backward compatible - kind of an arrogant move. I agree with you that discretionary spending is going to be way down for a bit.
Good job on this
Screw Humminbird, i love my Helix 12* when it's working), but I'll buy Garmin from here on out.
The first 2 years that i had my helix, hummingbird had it more than i did. because it quit working.
If I had to start all over again only thing I might to is get a 12" echomap instead of a 10. Besides that I 95% go Garmin. I do like the HDS Pro's only way I would get that instead of echomap is of sale was so good I saved so much $ it was an obvious no brainier
As an owner of two boats, a Jon boat for 9.9 tourneys and a glass boat with multiple helix units mega 360 and mega live believe me when I say I AM MEGA PISSED! The helix units have been solid, but once they got everyone’s money and the well is dry……now they come out with this BS? Here’s an idea- know your audience/customer.This is up there with motorguide getting rid of the tour model and then coming with junk and more junk. There was nothing wrong with the helix, all they had to do was make sure mega live 2 would plug right in. So stupid.
Oh, and an ultrex on each boat. The more I think about it, the more MEGA PISSED I get!
Couldn't have said it better.
Too bad I've seen mega live 2 and it looks amazing, I have a Garmin Echomap and its so much cheaper just getting the Lvs34 even though I like the look and feel of the ML2. imo I think ML2 is clearer, better distance and TS is slightly better and seeing your jig is even better. It's just too expensive for a ML2 and then another transducer for side/down view. 👎
Now with this info I don't see how they can make a profit and keep consumers happy. If it was me I'd trim the fat somewhere and then give the people ML2 bundle (Xplore) at a cheaper price comparable with Lowrance/Garmin and maybe a discount for Helix owners? Take a another loss for a quarter or 2, they need consumers to come back and their ML2 can do it.
Its kind of like the Hobie of Kayaks, was great but ignore their consumer base for too long and ended up selling the company.
Lack of innovation. They're stagnant - and I'm a Humminbird guy. My "One Boat Network" is obsolete with the new update. Only one of my units is compatible with the new update, so it's easy for someone like me to go buy a Garmin and get the best FFS instead of the un-innovative Mega Live 2.
Curious what you think is un-innovative about it?
@@sonarwars From the marking videos, it doesn't look like a big increase in visual performance over the ML1. Maybe 20%?The new update breaks their One Boat Network system with existing users unless we scrap your old units and buy new ones. I have 4 Solix's and only 1 is G3. So now I'm thinking "if I update my 1 compatible unit it won't network with my other units. May as well buy the best Garmin Livescope since my new Humminbird is subpar FFS and it won't network anyway." Very bad planning. If they don't make at least the waypoints backwards compatible, they may be in trouble.
When I got into fishing in 2021 I was totally priced out by humminbird. Bought Garmin for my first boat and never looked back
People are interested in the new unit for ice fishing. No Black box and much more user friendly.
I don't they go out of business but I don't know inside perspective of their business. I would find it hard to leave Garmin at this point. They have best FFS, side imaging is on par now. Their customer service has been excellent to me, I got my 10" ultra 106sv, Lvs34 system & steady cast, lithium battery to power my electronics on my kayak for just under 2500, that was with sales & coupon codes. A 10" unit from competition is that much by itself
The boating market is absurd if the used market wasn’t so overrun with 2 strokes there’d be no reason to buy new
This is why 'bird was working so hard to have 360 excluded from the FFS bans. It is the only unique product in their line-up. Am already seeing videos on repairing broken Quests.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just become a trolling motor company. Making the Helix non compatible was a major error that I think will have devastating consequences for their business.
They were definitely not responsive in addressing that Megalive was not able to match Garmin or Lowrance. The lack of backward compatibility is a bit crazy for their volume seller Helix range.
So after ONE bad quarter, a company might be going out of business. The outdoors industry has been soft for all companies.
I’m pissed at Johnson outdoors because of them seemingly not caring about making a brushless motor to compete with Garmin force. I ended up buying a force and therefore Garmin unit. Right now the only reason I see going for a Minnkota/hummingbird is they still have better features with their trolling motor Such as circle the way point and follow the contour that Garmin does not have due to patent issues I guess. Minnkota finally came out with a brushless motor, but it’s atrociously expensive. For me I’m sticking with Garmin.
Get a garmin for Livescope and use helix for mapping HUMMINBIRD TURNED INTO THE BUD LIGHT OF THE FISHING WORLD GARMIN KILLED IT CANT WAIT FOR THERE NEW LIVESCOPE TO DROP SOON
Humminbird user for 25+ years. I think they built the one boat network products and then sat back and collected $ but brands caught up to them quicker than they thought. FFS changed the game and they are now in a huge hole compounding this they upset their customer base with no integration with Helix which 90% of their customers had. They didn’t need to make helix work with mega 2 just pair with a new unit. Mega live 2 looks behind Garmin quality
The tariffs are going to increase electronics and aluminum prices. It will suppress sales. I'm a Lowrance fan. Generally, I would say Lowrance allows you to customize your graphs. That attracts a lot of users who fish in different environments.
Love my helix
This will be a repeat loop.
Explore Not backward compatible to Helix
Also no new software updates for Helix should actually piss customers off more. Trying to force everyone to explore
Not interested in MEGA 2 - if I want FFS it will be Garmin. The M360 is nice which I have.
The Quest motors is the only other product I want mostly because it’s brushless and maybe the drift mode.
Not interested in Xplore $5K more graphs go pound sand very very hard.
Not only has Johnson Outdoors been behind for a while and has hurt them self big time with fishermen & Humminbird throws their Helix customers under the bus like we don’t matter. I say fishermen should say screw Humminbird Johnson Outdoors they should go out of business.
Humminbird just screwed all previous customers Garmin 100%
Been a hummingbird guy my whole life very disappointed with the explorer and why stop at a 12in screen. Was really looking forward to doing the live2 but I won’t be buying this crap.
Operational Efficiencies is 100% corporate lingo for "we'll be firing a bunch of people to lower operational costs". They will shrink workforce to run lean for a while. Pretty par for the course for any corporate company in these situations. I do think the Humminbird brand is SOOO DATED. The UI on the Birds is terrible and convoluted and lags behind other brands.
No way! I don't believe it! Companies go up and down, gimme a break. This guy isn't an accountant, leave that to the experts. Total BS
Anglers will get rid of all their hummingbirds for one garmin
That's what I'm doing
Let's be honest the free covid money and free government money is not flowing so that extra money is gone that people where blowing like crazy instead of saving.. and this is about to be the new normal..when is the last pay increase you got .. lay offs on the way
Only thing garmin has is livescope. Their maps and side image are trash
they are not going out of business. tthey're are very good screwing the consumer.i have two new helix and mega live in their boxes iwas going to have put in my ranger in the spring. and i found out they were coming out explore and mega live 2. i called the company to help me to upgrade new explore and mega live 2 and they said they could not help me.and told them they are brand new in box's i like helix they are great unit. they wont work with mega live 2. and the engineers won't fix it to work with helix.so they decide to discontinue helix. iam very pissed off. 😣
There ffs sucks that’s why
I have had Humminbirds since my 798, and now two Helix units with Mega 360. They serve me well. But going forward I will seriously consider another brand. It is a serious error to not let the Xplore units communicate with Helix. Johnson Outdoors and the clowns that made the decision just thought that 10 million dollar loss was bad. Dumb dumb dumb.
I Have no sympathy... Oh… da poor widow cope-o-waytions in the boat industwee are vehwee sad aftoe they waped us post COVID…. You rode the wave people so deal with the lull. Signed, Bitter Broke Angler
TRUMP