The Dangers of Bad Osoto Gari in the BJJ Gym
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มี.ค. 2024
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I got injured by a judo instructor using me as uke for osoto gari demo. He applied zero kuzushi and basically clubbed the back of my leg as if I was hit with a ball bat. Had to use cane for three days. Three weeks later he did the exact same thing to me again. He is no longer with our club.
This is how I blew my MCL and ACL. It was at a judo gym, but the guy who did it was new to judo. He was a BJJ guy. Told him like 3 times, "you're doing it wrong", and then "snap!".
How long did it take you to heal?
I really hate training with white belt with experience or weight advantage. The dumb use of brute force is true risky
@@JohnGeranien it still completely hasn't if I'm being honest. I'm 5'9 and he's 6'2. Much longer legs and reach than I. I kept "break-falling", but he moved up on me when I went to fall and felt my knee snap. Healing has messed up my other knee, just because of how much I rely on that leg after the injury. I haven't done judo since. I plan on getting back to it, but I can't deny, the fear of messing up my other knee is what's kept me away from the dojo. I work. Have a family. Can't just go around messing up my knees...
Same 😢
So sorry this happened to you. Your safety takes precedence over training, especially with someone who doesn't listen or care. Early on, I appreciated our coaching, as safety was first priority, and newcomers were watched closely.
Yeah, bjj guys doing Judo techniques is were it all goes wrong. I do both arts. In my experience, from day one bjj gyms start training wrong. Ukemi practice is highly neglected.
This is something I am hypervigilant about. I'll bark at people if they disrespect knees by trying to go lumberjack on someone's leg (having blown my ACL in judo, I'm perhaps a bit sensitive about the subject). I hammer beginners on this constantly. This video is super valuable.
I am hypervigilant about it as well. I played catcher in baseball before I was a martial artist. Even though I've been very fortunate with my knees, it is something I'm very cautious about given my athletic history. I've seen too many friends walking with a limp.
It would be very good to make a video about how NOT to do some techniques. And also when not to resist. Specifically with bigger opponents. Things like defending uchi mata with hoping - it sounds good against the same size opponent, it can be dangerous against a bigger guy as he can compress your leg and push to the side in the same time.
If we knew how NOT do to techniques, then we would learn much faster how to do them properly...
I agree. This please ^^
Don’t uchi mata bigger guys lol Go for Drop seio nage or Sumi gaeshi, ouchi gari, kosoto gake..
@@DerineShorts I think you have misunderstood me. It is dangerous when a bigger guy goes for uchi mata and you defend buy hopping.
BJJ norm is to show techniques, and then do all kinds of experimentation until the student makes it work for themselves. For most ground techniques, getting something wrong now and then doesn't have bad consequences, but not so for tachiwaza. If that same approach is used in standup without a good foundation, people find these stupid bad ways to throw. Judo has a long-standing tradition of constraining technique to the safe paths, and deviating is a bad idea for the beginner. It's a big mindset change for a lot of BJJ folks.
They should stay away from the tachi-waza only if the BJJ instructor is also skilled in judo ( brown or black belt)
Amazing, I saw in 2019 when I came back to BJJ and even higher belts weren´t doing ukemi well so I felt they were so stiff resisting that osoto gari and uchimatas than their knees were almost popping out. That is why I love ken ken for BJJ.
Thanks for sharing and beautiful uniform sensei.
someone in my bjj got their Tib Fib broken from an Osoto gone wrong. I was struggling how that could happen but now I can understand
Jon Thomas is a truly martial artist, he learn judo from best 😂
This is exactly how my MPFL tore. A junior reached for osoto and jumped on to me with his full weight and twisting at the same time. This was at a judo gym. I think osoto is much more dangerous than people give it credit for, and it is taught way too early and bad technique is not corrected soon enough. I was back at the gym after 4months of physical therapy
Super explanation
I hope you do more of these injury prevention videos
Thanks, really appreciate injury prevention videos since injuries set us back the most.
Fun fact: a poorly executed Osoto Gari can tear your OWN ACL. Instead of moving my hips forward to be parallel with my opponent, I stuck my leg way out to catch behind my opponent's knee (it wasn't like Higashi-sensei displayed, my hips weren't cross-oriented like shown in the video; I was just way out). I kept straining and straining and straining and the guy wasn't going down... I gave one more squeeze on my hamstring and my GROUNDED knee went 60 degrees full sideways with a loud BANG. Full ACL tear that I wound up getting surgery for.
Good tips. It's my view that there are a fair few Judo and BJJ practitioners that need to adopt a more safety oriented mindset. In the long run it will be better for skill development too.
We were practicing nage komi and i remember as i was getting thrown by seionage, next to me i heard a scream. Someone chopped lateral part of the knee and she went down screaming. Partially torn ACL with meniscus tear. And it wasn't even during randori. 😢
We were practicing nagekomi with osoto and I got concussed because my training partner spiked the back of my head into the mat in such a way that I couldn't break fall. Osoto terrifies me now even during uchikomi
@@xXZaxoflameXx That one's on uke. You have to tuck your chin when you're being thrown or you get the back of your head slammed on osoto, or your forehead slammed on drop seoi.
@@maofas I'm aware I have to tuck my chin when thrown backwards. It's possible to get thrown in such a way that you can't breakfall. My coach told me the only thing I could've possibly done there is tried to twist to the side as I fell to maybe land on my shoulder, but tori clung to my gi very strongly with both hands as he drove me downwards and onto the back and top of my head as he fell on me, so twisting sideways wasn't an option either. There was legitimately nothing I could've done as uke to avoid what happened. Even with a tucked chin, I still landed on my head.
Hi Shintaro, thank you for your very precise presentation, if it is possible , please do an instructional on osoto otoshi vs osoto gari and the dangers of osoto otoshi done wrong. Much appreciated.
thank you Sensei 🙏
Judo being taught by Jiu Jitsu guys scares the hell out of me. I actually think guys should specifically go to a judo club for a few years before focusing on Jiujitsu specifically.
Yes man indeed ! BJJ instructors must have at least a brown or black belt so that they have mastered the basics of judo.
Schools that have a program like that , think that they will attract more students because their school is unique with judo techniques.
Educating themselves through youtube and think they are skilled in Judo but it can brings great danger!
If BJJ is taught correctly, it shouldn't matter whether you learn the technique at a Judo academy or a BJJ academy because the original BJJ (Gracies) came straight from Kosen Judo! It's literally the same art with a few modifications or "changes".
@@zshakur Yes but there is a difference between gracie jiu jitsu and brazilian jiu jitsu. helio gracie was a 6th dan black belt in judo and in his gracie jiu jitsu self defense videos you could see ogoshi and different kind of trows and standing arm locks.
More standup techniques then on the ground.
@@dylan_krishna_777 Not sure what his rank was in Judo (since he was too weak to train with the Count or his brothers) but yes, which is why Rickson doesn't like the current state of BJJ. He said it's too sportive with not enough focus on self defense techniques. The Gracie Combatives are FULL of Judo and Japanese Jui-Jitsu techniques.
@@zshakur helio gracie learned bjj from his brother carlos but aside he trained judo as well and holded 6th dan black belt . Helio was more about self-defense and his brother carlos saw BJJ as a sport with a belt system etc.
Love this content, more about safe practice to avoid injuries would be great !
I've recently started taking jiu-jitsu classes after years of judo and, what I've noticed, is that the players have a complete different stance; they are all "left handed"
Might be just at your club. I play right vs right 90% of the time
Yeah this is normal, judo stance is backwards for striking and since boxing in the correct stance is way more important than grappling in the correct stance anyone who strikes or is taught by people who strike will put their dominant side back
Grappling is typically dominant foot forward, so more like a southpaw boxing stance.
Extremely useful information.
Also very useful to consider when using o soto gari for self-defence, which would not require you to consider these considerations of duty of care so much.
awesome training tips on how to not blow up your knee. Thanks to your Training videos I improved my Harai Goshi and my Tao Otoshi. Keep up the good work from and old retired judoka cop from Miami. :]
This is exactly how a senpai throw me in my third month of judo, and how he teared my meniscus and my ACL. I hadn't returned to judo since then, and it's a shame, because I love it. Hope to return later this year, with some luck
Loved this video. You've given me a lot to consider. Can you do one of these for uchi mata as well? A trainjng partner injured their ankle because of an uchi mata.
Fantastic video. Thanks for sharing. Training Judo safely is something we need more information on as a community. If you could do a tani otoshi video as well that would be greatly appreciated!
Amazing
Excellent 👍
damn...i was just wondering this morning about twisted knees in osoto series...thank you so much...
and...wow...creepy how it went from my mind to youtube feed....
Glad you liked it!
Sharing now.
We need to look at this on the mat some time Jared!
Last year I broke my right knee trying to perform a technique of tai otoshi... Very dangerous mistake that cost me a lot of pain and money. I had to have surgery and I was left with sequelae. I'm still training, persevering, but I'll never be the same again.
I found that something clicked for me when I thought of osoto as a hand technique, not a leg technique all the way up until you deploy the leg. It took getting that kuzushi feel for tai otoshi that made it and osoto click for me and my body (height, weight, etc)
It's actually usually the MCL that goes first then the ACL then PCL.. just like with tani o toshi
I also tore my ACL in osoto gari, its really dangerous!
Working with a highly skilled player is so much safer that with less experienced. Your success rate goes way down, but you're less likely to end up injured. If someone puts your knees at risk, stop immediately and talk to the coach about the concern.
Sadly, I must admit I am now one of those bjj noobs that hurt a training partner with a bad osoto. I don't know how bad he was hurt yet. Hopefully I didn't tear anything.
I'm extra upset because I've been practicing it everytime I'm on the mat to avoid this kind of thing but ig it wasn't enough.
I'm not sure exactly what happened, but I think the chain of events was: he tackles me at a diagonal -> I plant my leg to keep balance -> he shifts weirdly -> I think the angle is there for the osoto so I go for it -> his leg comes free way too easily -> i twist him around and put him on the ground relatively gently -> he says "stop my leg is hurt" and I go get the coach.
... no live stand up for me until I figure this out ig
Thanks for this video! No kidding, I gave myself a full blown concussion trying to do Uchi Mata. I tried to kick my leg and ended up planing right on top of my head.
I literally had surgery in april cause of this. Blew out my ACL MCL and Lateral Meniscus.
Navy seal tried this on me and tore my acl, mcl, and both meniscus
I suppose this is a great example of the difference between being a courteous martial artist and focusing on just disabling/neutralizing an opponent. Sorry to hear that happened.
Hoorah, they don't practice so the guy can get up on the battlefield.
makes it really difficult to do lots of practice getting injured in first try😞
@@KingOfSwords720 i didn't get up for 20mins. My knee went all the way to the floor. Laid face down in complete pain
Almost happened to me. Hurt like hell, I thought it was torn.. ruined the night
Very timely, I'm about to get an xray and Mri from a bad one. Knee is filled with fluid and swollen :(
i am outa jui jitsu from that same thing ,2 many times, then it finally went.
I honestly wish I could train under you :( but I’m in Texas
So glad to see you post this video. When I was coming up through the ranks, I saw more serious injuries from Osoto Gari than literally from everything else *combined*, including the time someone did it wrong to me and I had a serious ankle sprain - walking boot for about 3 months. I've actually gone so far as to modify the technique when I teach it - ever since I have, ZERO injuries from it.
I love seeing this get addressed to a wide audience!
How do you modified it to avoid injuries?
Teaching what the vulnerable positions are and how to avoid them should be part of every class. Definitely not emphasized enough.
Glad to see this content, seen this happen and its not pretty.
Kubi nage?
This is Ken Ken osoto.
BOOM! Knee is gone! I know what Ole Bischoff would do.
Yep ppl say judo for self defense is bad, consider using this technique wrongly instead to your advatange on the steeets. They wont be able to get up!
I mean don't do that. You won't have the reps to use this 'wrongly', and used right you are still slamming a fool down into the floor with the back of their head. Done right is actually quite dangerous- this throw is said to have the most fatalities in Judo for a reason.
ken ken
Ossu great video i would like to learn judo. But i always hear about Olympic style vs real Judo . What's available and what style should i do .
Bad news: you can only practice sport judo nowadays. The good news: it is safer, still complex, and remains dangerous if done correctly. What is real judo? Discover on your own. You must discover the answer by practicing the sport of judo and researching other material on the internet.
Look at it this way.
Is boxing or wrestling today considered less real and respected because they've stripped out aspects of their styles? No. Why should Judo be treated the same way?
Training with competitive Judoka will make you better at fighting, not some hobbyists who try to teach you half arsed morote gari.
MMA is the be all end all anyway, go there if that's what you want.
👍👌👋
I feel like O Soto done properly is incredibly safe and isn't a high risk move. In BJJ they teach a lot of bad standup from what I've seen
3:42 or he can just let go of the eri while you’re hopping.
Angles matter
Hello Mr Higashi. As I made a donation during covid time to help you keep your dojo, and as you are now a commentator on Judo TV, could you please, in return, correct Neil Adams every time he calls a technique by its wrong name? It drives me crazy when he calls a clear o soto an "ashi guruma", or a kata guruma a "yoko otoshi". I would be sooo grateful ;)
That is why bjj guys need to learn how to fall properly and break falls
Would you please explain what the hell has happened to competition. Every year less and less allowed. No single or double leg takedown no Kani basami no pivoting on head. Soon only uchi mata will be allowed. What is going on. Osae komi waza diminished. Your thoughts
It’s a combination of differentiating the sport from wrestling, and ensuring participant safety
There is a podcast episode from shintaro on this.
It's kinda funny how every martial art on earth claims to be deadly, but Judo low key has the ability just destroy people's legs at a moment's notice.
That's precisely why I kinda fear certain Judo guys more than anything. I'm not worried about some cheeto fingered Krav Maga guy trying to poke my eyes out, I'm worried about the Judoka that wants to delete my acl.
The odds of me every actually being in a street fight with a pissed off Judoka are next to nothing, but still.
You've never trained judo if you haven't seen two beginners try the simultaneous osoto gari 😂
This is why I don't like seeing BJJ guys teaching Judo throws. They don't really learn the proper mechanics of it and it's horrible usually in so many ways.
@@sloppyyeggs The reason is, is that they took them out of the Judo the Gracies learned and started teaching butt scooting instead. No, throws are not limited or come from just one art, but BJJ came from Judo and in order for BJJ to get them back, they should learn them from a qualified Judoka. or one of those other arts instead of trying to watch a vid and figure them out, then once they do that, they should acknowledge said school or just admit that BJJ is basically just judo then.
I hate that people teach osoto first, it requires one of the best breakfall techniques as well. And it makes horribly ugly judo between beginners, nothing worse than reffing five year olds having an osoto shootout for full time + golden score
Boxers, Kickboxers, MMA fighters have to wear hand wraps as well to protect their wrists and knuckles. The gloves don't necessarily weaken the punches in terms of knocking someone out, but rather significantly reduce cuts to both face and the hand that made contact.
I think Ramsay Dewey just woke up and decided "Which Martial Arts community can I try triggering today?"
Why does the Knee have to be so fragile? Heck even looking at your knee wrong is enough to cause damage.