I BOUGHT A CHURCH ORGAN PART 14 - CONSOLE BRAINS AND WIRING
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 เม.ย. 2023
- TIME TO GIVE THE ORGAN BRAINS
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#restoration #howto #organ - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
reply to some code comments, something i had not mentionned in the vid as i failed to fully explain. it is also an issue with just a single keyboard, as in you have a stop playing and the same but transposed it has the ability to cut itself off. im in the middle of sorting it for the next vid, but be aware if your trying to think about solutionas, you cant just compare inputs from the keyboards.
also a Reply to the incoming "get the keys to move
By themselves" comments. Don't get me wrong awesome idea. I humoured it when putting together the first keyboard tried a handful of approaches and it was just turning into an absolute endeavour of modification. I'd have more luck sourcing something more suited. It's one thing being the big ideas talker down the pub. But it's nothing without seeing it through. But yeah don't get me wrong I'd love to and will do when i get to it :D.
Might be easier to find an old pianola (aka "player piano"), wire that up for MIDI, then feed its MIDI output into the organ. Not saying it'll be easy mind you, just perhaps easier ;)
@@MicraHakkinen indeed! I am after a rough pianola to midify for another day haha. However a self playing 2 tier key setup would be awesome as you play great to swell and it's like both keyboards move. I tried various different electromagnetic arrangements and none that were good enough were small enough
if you cannot source a self moving piano then maybe some more LEDs on the keys themselves for when it's auto-playing
maybe an led per key might be an easier option, like the pipe leds :)
@@ChongMcBong yeah I think this might be the better way since getting a similar electromechanical system would be potentially altering more of the console and Sam's been trying to keep it reversible
I'm so fucking glad Sam bought Joan's organ. This has to be one of the best series of videos I've watched. Every episode is so satisfying to see it get more and more complete.
The music is always on point and the fact we had a fuck you song for all the 'you shouldn't do it like that, do it like this' crowd was a cherry on top.
Omg, had tears in my eyes with the FU song, this project has been so fantastic. Had a quick play on the organ end of last year, can't wait to get to another open day. Amazing, awesome, made my day. ❤❤
SAM!! YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR DOOOOINNNNNNNNN, U DON NO WOT UR DOINNNNNNN
This is truly an amazing work and we are learning how pipe organs work. This video series will outlive us like the great classics.
@@traida111 But Wot yer gonna do? 🙂
@@davechisholm9670 doin sam, you dun no wot ur DOINGGGGGGG
It's cool that you're able to add more features to it without wrecking the original mojo of the organ.
Agreed
I like that it still looks original
You are amazing. I have been an organist since age 14, and most organs have piston presets. Coils like that one are still used, but I like the fully electronic stuff - less mechanical things to break.
if Rob Scallon ever visits the UK you need to invite him to come and do a session on the organ. He would be absolutely blown away by what you've done here
exactly my thoughts too, been loving this all along, but something about this episode really hit home as to just what may be possible with a setup like this. and a collab with rob would be nuts
Would love to see Rob and Sam collaborate!
yes a little Phantom of the Opera cover with rob on guitar would be epic
YES OH MY GOD YES
I really want to see Rob visit the museum.
Joan would be so amazed at how you are keeping her legacy alive. 👍🏻
don't talk in past tense, she is watching every stage. she also is not bound by time anymore, so she can watch his entire build in one continuous moment. I think the finale, of when its finished and it runs its first fully configured midi file, she will be in pure joy.
I didn't expect this project to be this complicated. My knowledge of organs is almost non existent, so after you put the whole thing together, I thought you're basically done, but boy was I wrong. But that also means more great content to look forward to!
My knowledge of organs is also none existent so bear that in mind 😂
@@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER Yeah but you've got a lot of time, and a background in both music and electromechanical systems, so I imagine there's a lot of "oh, so that's why that is the way it is" discoveries every day, plus you then have to package that discovery into something you can show your audience that makes sense. You know way more than you're letting on.
I'm with you. I was thinking the same thing. Months later still stuff to do. Really cool watching Sam put it all together.
@@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER yeah you don’t know what your doing sammm it can’t be done sammmmm blah blah you are incredible man prove us all wrong including yourself! Keep it up!
@@LOOKMUMNOCOMPUTER I feel like if there were more folks out there like you, we would have more organs saved from the scrap heap. I'm sure you learned that organists and organ enthusiasts are very, VERY protective and traditionally minded of their instrument. "How could you bastardize it like that?!!" And they all clutch their pearls, to the point where it turns off people who would otherwise be more than interested in building, maintaining, and playing real pipe organs. At the end of the day, whether the traditionalists like this analogy or not, a pipe organ is merely a large box of tuned whistles. That's it. There are clever ways to arrange and control said whistles, but still - tuned whistles. It's not as scary or holy or whatever as people think it is.
One of the best project I follow. I hope to get time to visit your museum.
Thankyou very much Thomas that is awfully generous! That money will pay for the wheels and wood for organ console base me
Thinks. Thanks again! Yeah pop over if you do let us know. Cheers.
legend
If I wasn't in Ireland I'd legit try and come to your museum lol
Maybe someday haha
@@BenCos2018 That's practically next door lol I'd love to visit but I'm in the wrong hemisphere
@@ryanmccampbell7 lol not wrong
I knew this was going to be a cool project - but this is turning out to be even cooler than I thought it would be. guess I like organs lol. Wish I had one near me I could play on the regular
I've always loved the interface between the digital and real world actions instead of just graphic interfaces, hence the reason pinball games really enthral me. This keyboard and your channel really hit the spot.
This little improvised song starting at 14:05 immediately made me grin all over my face. Such a great project. I'm really curious when all is done and you play on it.
It felt so charming and genuine and musical while being facetious and simple. Should totally be a youtube short.
I've been plotting out the MIDI functionality of my organ, patiently waiting to see how you would go about rigging yours. You alerted me to some alternate solutions and also to some coding pitfalls that I would not have anticipated.
I'm definitely going to give that book a read!
I reckon: Don't try to count the MIDI on/off events. Just make an array of 127 Booleans for each channel. With each MIDI event in, XOR the arrays, and send out events only for the notes which have changed.
This is not as efficient computationally. 1980s hardware probably couldn't handle it. Which is why MIDI wasn't built this way. But modern microprocessors should be able to do it no problem.
"When we were making a display display, for the display display!" Love it! :D
Excellent work! Not sure if the orignial organ came with one, but you could add a tremulent stop to flucurate the wind pressure going to the pipes, this would create a vibrato effect and would sound great in combination with the salicional. You could probably create one from scratch if needed.
Please, @lookmumnocomputer we need a MIDI controlled VFD
I've never heard of this but it's a very cool idea. I wonder if anyone's applied the same idea to one of those electric chord organs.
**Wurlitzer Organ Company has entered the chat**
As a purely electromechanical device this must have been mind bending to wire up and configure. I just can't even conceive how purely mechanical organs achieved this level of multiplexing and demultiplexing of keys and pipes. The coding challenge for the software solution is clearly not to be sneezed at either and I reckon you have had plenty of sleepless nights thinking about all of this. Congratulations Sam for getting this marathon project just about over the line. You have found a way.
I’m 55 now (last month) and I see the absolute excitement you have for what you do. I was building circuit boards at 10 to control things from my ZX spectrum. You can do anything and it’s such a joy to watch. Your channel is just so much fun as I love organ music, organs and electronics. Simply heaven. If I get some money I will be a patrion.
Organist Anna Lapwood should come around to give this thing a go, she might even be able to help you figure out the switches and stuff
The Aeolian company of New York and London (and a few other organ companies) made pipe organs that played themselves in the early part of the 20th century by using rolls like a player piano (pianola) Some people have restored some of these instruments and have made midi files that play instead of the fragile paper rolls. There are performances by some of the great organists of the era, and there are also fun pieces your audience might enjoy. I hope you pursue the possibility of getting some of the midi files for your project.
Would be great to see Anna Lapwood come and play when its all finished 😀
it's all well and good for people to say the classic "OHHH YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOIN', SAM!!!1!" but you have put a LOT of effort into this beast
glad to see you're doing it justice, mate
thanks to them Sam does the impression and it makes me laugh a lot, I do enjoy it
Your dedication to the critics was amazing. 🤣 I imagine this massive conversion to MIDI probably radically improved the reliability of this organ, too. All those fine little wires in the keyboards can work together rather than separately.
Just need to come rising from out of the floor ,
with a smoke machine
And mirror balls
And Sam in a Phantom of the Opera mask
That's all pretty neat. There is one detail I noticed: Your choice of MIDI channels for the keyboards are reversed of the de-facto standard for MIDI organs. Most MIDI organs (I have six of them) has CH1 for the top keyboard, CH2 for the bottom keyboard, and CH3 for the pedals. The same configuration goes for most MIDI accordions where CH1 is right hand's buttons or keys, CH2 is chord buttons, and CH3 is bass buttons.
i did it that way cus i did it that way :D
makes sense to me counting up from the ground :D
organfairy you are special to have six organs
@@curtisnixon5313 The six organs are just the ones that has MIDI. I also have some without....
That'll be interesting when Sam gets a MIDI file meant for one of those organs and plays it on his...
I love your solution of having 3D printed inserts for the sockets in holes cut with a hole saw. Simple yet brilliant, and looks clean. Cutting accurate square holes in aluminium sheet is harder than it looks.
Easiest with a D-Sub punch, but you need several punches for the different lengths of connectors. Hole saw and a plastic plate is a good solution.
It's tremendous the amount of work and effort you're putting in this project! If you don't know, if that thin pipes are really strings they have to be slightly out of tune with the other ones to create that sort of angelic effect. Good luck Sam!
Only if they're a celeste stop.
@@bigogle I think there is but it's not specified as a Celeste
Just while watching this I thought of a slightly different way of coding your 'organ brain'. Rather than trying to count on/offs, I'd try to keep track of the state of each keyboard, and calculate what pipes should be on, then creating the necessary on/off commands to control the pipes.
So, you'd have bitmaps for which keys are depressed on each keyboard, bitmaps of which stops are depressed, and bitmaps of which pipes are playing. You listen to the midi channels/scan the stops and update the bitmaps. Whenever a bitmap is updated, calculate which pipes that combination of keys and stops should be playing.
Then you'd have two sets of bitmaps for the pipes: which pipes are currently playing and which should be playing (as calculated). Issue the note on/off commands as needed and then set the 'currently playing' bitmap to the calculated bitmap.
Hope that confuses everyone less than me!
(Anyway, I love how you've wired the midi up for this! Looks like it'll play nicely as both an organ and as a MIDI instrument.)
All good! Yeah your on the right track state machine has come up a couple of times it would certainly be quicker
This was my exact thought too-you'd be able to take advantage of the arduino's bit operators which would be both ram efficient (important when working with Arduino nanos) and fast. Use standard bit mapping techniques, run a diff, and send the appropriate midi messages.
I think you need some kind of award for giving this old organ not just a new life but a life in the 21st century.
I never thought about organs this much. So much going on. Really giving all your skills a workout. Good job!
I think about my organ alot, ha haaaa haaaa...........
When you get it finally finished, PLEASE get Anna Lapwood to come play it! 😍
You should really invite Anna Lapwood or another organist to come and check out the organ. Would make for a great collab. :)
YES! That would be great! 😃
Loved the FY protest song🤣. Really enjoying this series, fantastic stuff!
I bought two electronic organs from the thrift shop as a first instrument in 2010 $35 for both. It was so fun taking them apart fixing some keys, learning about spring reverb and leslies, and making loud noises. I gave them back to the same shop when I moved. It makes me really happy to see that you have taken on this large task. I really feel like I'm going to love the music you make with this even more from having watched the journey.
Sam, your dedication to this project is phenomenal! So enjoying the old and new coming together and the challenges you solve.
This drawing should totally be framed in the museum. No kidding.
This series of videos has done two things for me. First, it has reinforced my belief that your creativity knows no bounds. Second, it has made me realize just how complex organs are, even without your “midification”.
Sam this series has been amazing. Thanks for the nod to Joan with the name and to the house with the paint scheme. Thanks for your ingenuity. Thanks for the blood, sweat and tears. Thanks for making it work but not overdoing the refurbishment. Thanks for being an old soul. Thanks for being a thoroughly decent lad and thanks for making me laugh my head off a bunch of times, but never more than the pretentious art critic quite a few videos back ;-)
Sam, Joan has to be smiling down from above at what you've done to keep this old girl alive! Love it!
Should definitely add an all notes off button, a reset switch in case MIDI sticks. It would definitely help with troubleshooting I would imagine.
I refer to the comment from last time that the blower makes funny noises. I recognize that sound from the times I visited customers as a service engineer. The lingering grinding noises are actually caused by the binding cord in the motor. The same cord that you also use to tie the cables. The cord sometimes breaks due to age and then starts to rub against rotating parts in a stubborn way.
Fun way to make money for the museum: put out a template with all the midi channels / stops, and a short video about what they sound like. Then let people pay you money to play their midi files over your organ, and record them there, and send them the wav of the recording. I’d do it!
Edit: just remember to always preview anything sent there. Look out for 1/512 notes or other absurdly fast repetition of the same note. Don’t wanna let the smoke out!
When I was a young cabinetmaker the firm I was with used to make and modify organ cabinets for organ builders. I bought myself a set of TCT holesaws (and a Festo - now Festool - jigsaw) when they were then still very expensive (nearly 2 weeks wages) , because the organ builders kept on changing their minds where the wiring and piping were going to go, and we were constantly drilling new holes in our newly finished/refurbished organ cases! Tungsten carbide tipped holesaws leave a lot neater hole than the bimetal ones we used to use. I still have them, that I use quite a lot, but they are less than 1/3 of the price now than when I bought mine. (made in Taiwan/China, not Germany). Sam, if you ever need quite a lot of cash quickly, there's organ restorers who would pay you whatever you wanted for the skills you have built up over the course of this project. Well done!
TH-cam has change society enough that people like Look Mum no Computer can make a living refurbishing a pipe organ. What a time to be alive.
Also known as an extension organ because one rank of pipes will have pipes that extend further up or further down in pitch and the different stops in effect control what relative pitch you're playing. Generally that sort of organ tends to sound a bit thin and squeeky when all stops are used due to the double or triple or quadruple duty some pipes are doing.
Man, hearing you swear is amazing
Thanks!
Thank you for sharing your passion. I have worked with electronics mostly my whole life. As a helicopter mechanic, cnc machinist, and aircraft flight control technician for Parker Hannifin. I am semi retired but still watch people playing with electronics on TH-cam. This addiction is for life. Again thanks.
Man, I fucking love the sound of organs so much. When all the pipes come in, its honestly euphoric.
Absolutely amazing project! You madman are going more all out in every EP than i think you would :D
I love your MIDI solution to this instead of having everything hard wired. Leaves the parts as modules that can be easily re-coded and changed as desired. You could even do weird non pipe organ stuff, like adding your own stop that toggles coils repetitively instead of constant on when pressed to give a warbled effect(?).
He already made it talk so it shouldn't be hard to add that function in the finished setup.
I absolutely love the almost tape-like instability of the pitch. It does need a good tune, but i'd keep the little fluctuations in there
This is an amazing project. Seems like you are nearing a point where you can get some professional organists to try it out? Maybe you should get a church choir into the museum too?
Cool to see the OnShape shout-out... I've been using it as an engineering consultant since it first launched, its great for collaboration since clients don't have to download anything to see the work in progress! If your 3d printing projects get more complex, you could share the design!
Damn, was never thinking how organs works... Now I know how it's builds 🤣. Amazing project, amazing job.
You have created a truly fine electronic brain!
The Organ is coming along now great update 2x👍
But we know someone's going to say "well its not the right way to fix it, you need to do this bla bla bla"
I freaking love this series, one of my favorite things on YT ever. I love the vivaldi covers you posted, I can't wait to see the videos where the museum has organists visit just so they can play!
Wow, you really pulled out all the stops for this video! (I'll show myself out, no need to push!)
Seems like this project has been a good learning experience for yourself as well. It's been fun seeing someone take such a different approach to a pipe organ, and make it an educational exhibit at the same time.
Sam, you're doing an AMAZING job on this project for a right plonker...Don't EVER let the naysayers stop your enthusiasm and creativity! I still want to see @AnnaLapwoodOrgan visit the museum!
Always so fascinating and insane 😊
Thank you for choosing to display the display display in this video as explanation. It just displays your attention to detail.
You are the weird, intense and somewhat unhinged genius in a mad max-like sci-fi film who builds advanced robots and computer systems out of scrap. I just love that you exist!!!
“It’s sorta coming together.” I think it’s absolutely remarkable!
17:24 maybe an bitarray with bits representing the keys and then OR'ing them to know when to send a start end stop note? something like that?
I watch lots of different stuff on youtube. Car restorations, music, science, engineering stuff, cycling, beekeeping etc etc. This is up there with the very best content - a project Binky of the organ world. Keep up the amazing work.
When you finally have this amazing project finished, we're going to need a video of the organ playing Bach's Toccata and Fugue in Dm by itself. With all the lights off in the room and maybe a smoke machine running in there too.
Incredible work, Sam. Keep it up!
If I had Elon Musk amounts of wealth I'd go to Atlantic City and ask how much money and how many people do they need to get that pipe organ up and running 100% ASAP? The pipe organ there may be the biggest in the world but it hasn't been fully functional since 1944. Some restoration work was done in 1998 but in 2001 the arena underwent a renovation, apparently by a gang of monkeys who cut wires, air lines, yanked out and stepped on pipes and just in general vandalized most parts of the organ. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boardwalk_Hall_Auditorium_Organ
What would be even cooler, now you have the brain, you can record all the key and button presses, and replay it. So you can have a professional come in to perform a few good tunes, which can then be played back to visitors if they so choose to hear the organ's full potential.
So good to see the love-hate relationship with this project 🤣
Love hate is very accurate haha
It's also lovely to see Tony's skrewdrivers in pretty every organ video.
This is the best clip in the series so far. Tears of laughter and tears of joy. Taking such disparate technologies and fusing them together to create such a thing of joy and sonic beauty. F@$k you to anyone that says otherwise. ❤
I must say I really like this proper church organ sound without the usual reverb of the church. It's unique and especially the quieter pipes sound really nice. Would be nice for recording session.
Normally i would say have my energy for this project, but in your case this compliment seems not necessary. You are amazing, Sir.
I'm stoked to see this project coming together so beautifully, keep it up man👍 cant wait to see whats next
This series is just brilliant.. lost count of the number of skills you need to get get this working.. Amazing progress.. Well done..
Every video about this project just makes me more excited for the next one, so much cool stuff going on with this :D
I've never understood what all the levers and knobs and why 2 keyboards as well as I do now! And I've tried to understand before. Everyone just always talks over your head about it. For whatever reason the way you broke it down in this video was the perfect way for me to finally understand what's going on! This has been such a great series.
This is such a great project. When I was younger, i played quite some time church-organ, too (not very good, though), today i'm a network-administrator, that likes to play around with microcontrollers, too, so this project tickles me in every possible way. really worth watching every second, and the outro-song is just amazing.
by the way, in my option every proper organ needs to have a "tutti"-switch.
back in the day, ours had one. Tutti basically means "turn on all the damn switches on to maximize volume, and blow out any dust of granny's ears". Most organists use this switch to transition from the moody, devotional phase right before service in a church to the explicit beginning of the service, often accompanied by some choir-action.
however, keep up the great work.
Good policy on making it modular and moveable, someday you're gonna want that on the highest floor of your mad scientist tower for ideal lightning storm scenes.
Well... I'm impressed, it's turning out so much better than I expected when you started!
This is awesome!!!!
I think you have another problem in the future I don’t know if you thought about it yet, the inlay stand that is holding the key boards and the switch is not really made to be free standing as you have it, but in layer into a wall for support, I recommend adding some reinforcement to the base and under the keyboards (this may also assist in giving you a location for adding wheels too) maybe even some reinforcement to the upper half as well, it would be like a box though but at least it won’t fall apart on you as you move around it I would hate to see you get hurt, also would be sad if the keyboard’s broke. Materials you could use could be wood, but then you wouldn’t be able to see anything, plexiglass would allow visuals of the work you put into this masterpiece and still support it properly, so maybe that’s the idea? Of course this is only my suggestion for you because I worry. 😊
I admire your patience. There is so much work (time so many repetitions of the same work), it's already exhausting watching you do it.
Wow! A haunted pipe organ where the stops move all by themselves!!🤣 Would be amazing if you could get the keys to depress as the MIDI file plays as well. Would be truly spooky to watch but assume it would require a lot of work....and wiring!! I love this series, and am truly enchanted by it, and what you have achieved!
This is such a magical project!
What I like about this project is that its taking the old world of music and new world of music and bashing them together to bring history into the now and the future also into the past.
Also this instrument has some of the most beautiful overtones I've ever heard.
Looks like you may have a great career in upgrading and automating church organs. Bring some of those instruments back to life.
If you make the keys and console rotate, you should put a motor on it and make it spin, room scale Leslie! =P
Just keep a bucket nearby.
"It does look a little bit scrappy" - with tidier wiring and soldering than anything I've ever made in my life. Amazing, Sam!
Great it took time to travel to go and dismantle the organ and transport back to the museum to work 11 months on you done well with other project's in-between the organ.
Love your channel and the work you are doing to save this fantastic sounding pipe organ. What a wonderful sound those pipes have.
Thank you for taking the effort of recording in decent stereo, it really makes a difference.
This is a wonderful job that you are doing - we are losing our organ heritage in Britain and it is people like you who keep this enormous part of the British culture going. If I had to pick one minor flaw in your reconstruction, it would be that the Great stops always go on the right, and the Swell stops on the left. Also, technically, you have no Gemshorn on your organ currently, because they are constructed out of metal, and are a narrow, conical flute - the best substitute is to just have the principal/open diapason rank playing, because otherwise there is no principal on the Great. Finally, I don't know whether you have done this or not, but a Nazard/Nasard is a flute, and a Twelfth is a principal/open diapason. Other than that, however, it is a mighty fine job that you are doing, and keep up the good work. It warms the heart to see this kind of thing happening.
This thing is exactly where it needs to be and it's been great seeing this develop. Great tune at 14:12 too 😆 The best way to get back at people truly is with success.
I think Joan would have been sad to see it destroyed, she loved it. I think it brings Joy to her seeing it modernised and cherished by thousands of people.
I love hearing about the coding dilemmas. I'm a hobbyist hacker too, so during the explanation of the stops and how they affect the pipes being played, my mind was already churning over how to track note-on / note-off events that may overlap on manuals, or due to +5, +12 from stops.
I think using note-on counters could end up with stuck notes that you can't clear, if there were ever a note-off that got missed. So if all keys were already released, e.g., pressing the note again would just increment the counter again. Likewise, you could end up subtracting one from zero if a note-on event got missed. You would probably need a panic button to clear all notes just in case.
My solution would be to manage them in queues ... each manual and the pedals being an input queue, which is then processed by the stops before being sent to an output queue. An event from the manuals would be handled in its own queue and send a message to the stops queue to process it and decide what effect that would have on active pipes before transmitting something on the output (pipe) queues. An event from the stops would just bypass the input queues and go directly to the stops queue, to change the pipes that are playing the active notes from the input queues.
Or at least that's how I see it before getting knee-deep in code and deciding that it's a horrible idea, or the implementation isn't ideologically pure enough, and obviously needs to be completely re-written.. again.. haha :-D
It all makes sense now. Highly appreciated.
Brilliant. Amazing work keeping this organ alive and giving it a new life. I totally agree with how you have re-built but not polished to perfection Joan's organ. It needs to show it's age and story. It is in good hands. Fascinating series to watch.
14:00 made my day... thank you so so so much
Holy s**t! I’ve always wondered what was up with the multiple keyboards on organs and in 30 seconds you show it without even thinking. This makes sense to why the really big ones can have a half dozen keyboards. Each set up to play with a different set of pipes. 😮
I've always wanted a VC system with a restore-able state. This is an amazing project.
This series is just utterly fantastic, the amount of progress you've made physically with this as well as your learning is outstanding. The end product will be amazing i'm sure.
I love this series so much!