Just after finishing training I bought a 1966 Cherokee 180 for 45k minimal IFR. It was just a little faster than 172. Flew this beauty for 10 years, 600hrs. Cheaper than Cessna, easier to fly, excellent for a person in my situation. (Older, 64, female) Later sold part ownership. At 74 stopped flying. What a wonderful ride!!
My first airplane was a straight 35 Beech Bonanza, 1948 SN 1525 N 4504 V. I too bought mine, without any time in a Bonanza. I took an airliner to Newark N J from N E Ohio and paid the man. Done a few take off and landings, and was socked in for almost a week in Monmouth County Airport. I found it very east to fly and land, and that's with no adjustable prop nor retract time.` It had the E 185 HP engine, which meant 185 HP on take-off only. I owned it for 18 years and surely enjoyed it. I did do the spar mod and the A.D. on the V tail block. I top overhauled it and put new plexiglass in. Flew it many hours and sold it for $2200 more than I paid for it. ($5600). Sold it in 1982, when I got married. A fine fine airplane.
You can be co-pilot at any flying school at whatever plane you like.... We all rented/renting planes to fly around, you indeed member of the flying community.
This was a good rundown, thanks for posting! My first airplane purchase was a 172 XP, which was relatively cheap to buy in decent shape ($45K), cheap to run and maintain (9-10 GPH running LOP), and a great plane to do a lot of learning in. I flew it 200+ hours in the 2 years I owned it, flew my PP check ride in it, and loved it. But like you, I found it just did t have the long legs my mission required. I looked at Bonanzas, but the Mooneys were just so much better in the areas I cared about. I bought a M20K (231) and have never looked back. I liked all the features you named, but I also liked the Mooneys’ safety record, which a lot of people are not aware of. I’ve flown 150+ hours per year in the 3 years Ive owned her, most of that XC, and most of that above 12,000 MSL. It gets me and my family where we need to go quickly and safely. Great community, great technical support, just an awesome marque.
In a way I enjoyed the presentation, thanks, and I do realize that this was more of a general overview regarding the arrival at a decision on one's first airplane. That said, I would have liked to have seen more of the numbers. I mean why did you opt for a partner instead of going solo? And how is that working? Partnerships are a subject that you could spend a considerable amount of time discussing, I realize that also. Finally, there was no mention of the difficulties in doing the simple things associated with aircraft ownership, the primary of which is storage. I was on a waiting list for 6 years at a local airport. I'd given up on ever getting a hangar and thus I gave up on getting an airplane. They - unbelievably - called me 7 years after I "got on the list" and told me that they had a hangar come available but I'd need to get out there within 2 days or else they'd move on. I was out of town, but they didn't care. So I missed that "opportunity". Sigh. Anyway, thanks for the effort in making the video.
Jerry, check out my most recent video where I talk through our costs for 2020. I'm so thankful to be in a partnership, I simply can't fly enough to justify paying for the total cost myself. I did get lucky in finding a good partner. Our local airport also had a wait list, but most on the waitlist also didn't have an airplane yet. As soon as you actually own a plane, you go right to the top of the list.
Would have been nice if you had put numbers to “cheap”, “expensive”, “slow”, “fast”, interesting video but since I don’t own a plane I have no idea how to interpret those statements.
Look at planes for sale on tradeaplane.com there are also general performance specs on there. If you want to get some additional cost/performance information planephd.com has estimated maintenance/ownership cost and some other performance info such as fuel burn etc.
I have to say, they were both real possibilities as I searched for a bird. Likely the biggest reason is moved past the 150 was the discovery of a gentlemen who wanted to partner in a plane. It pushed the budget to a place where a 4 seat airplane was a possibility.
@@MyTimeToFly And what are your impressions of partnering, now that you've done it? (Loaded question, I know, since your partner is likely to read your reply, but we do what we can.)
I wouldn’t hold back, even knowing he might read it. For me, it’s been a great experience. Wes and I have similar goals, are both financially stable, and both fly about the same amount. I can definitely see where it could go badly if you had the wrong partners involved!
Mooney is a great plane, but not for faint of heart or low time private pilot. Tricky to fly, insurance is up there and you need at least 7-10 hrs with an instructor before solo in one. Gotta have your comolex and high performance endorsement and 400 hrs recommended in last 3 yrs too, not to mention they sit much lower than a bonanza or 172. The old V-tail again not a good first airplane choice. Need the complex and high performance and at least 400 hrs. I'd also recommend all ppl candidates go take sine aerobatic lessons and learn about spins and recovery. We get spin training during the commercial phase... A C-172 or a Cherokee 140/160 are good entry level planes for the ppl student. And even for IFR. The next move up would be a C-182 or 206/207 are the work horses. A Cherokee 160 or 180 or a Cherokee 6 or a A33/34 Bonanza. Work your way up. I now or rather knew far to many now passed pilots that bought way more airplane than they could handle and paid the ultimate sacrifice with loss of their life, by having too much $, which doesn't equal safe or making a good informed decision. Just because you CAN buy it, doesnt mean you SHOULD buy it. And never be in a hurry to get anywhere, for anyone, ever. Also, get-there-itis is a widower of general aviation pilots. Lastly, do NOT play with mother nature in a plane. As Arnold Shwartzeniger says, you will lose..
I respect your opinion, but disagree on the difficulty of flying a Mooney. At least the C model we have. It’s proven to be quite easy to fly for a coupe of 150 hour pilots.
Mooney's are great planes. I have many hours in them. But my favorite is the Cessna 177RG. Fast, economical, roomy and comfortable! No strut for outstanding visibility, 48 inch cabin width, two wide doors, and 142 kts cruise on 10 gph with 60 gallon tanks!
Thanks for the comment, I agree the Mooney is great but can find greatness in many planes. The Cardinal has a lot of awesome qualities which you have listed!
I've wanted to buy a plane for most of my adult life. My favorites are the Mooney M20, Beechcraft Bonanza and Cessna 177RG (wider cabin than the 172 and no struts obstructing view). Unfortunately, I believe I'm likely going to end up with a 150 or even an old Aeronca Champ simply due to price. I would love to have a 4 place with a comfortable cabin, IFR rated and better range, but I won't need any of that for 60 to 80 percent of the flying I'll be doing and after 30 years of cravings, I want to make this a reality before I'm too old to clear my medical. Also, burning 5 gph vs 9 to 13 gph means I can fly more often. When I want to fly my wife and kids somewhere, I'll have to rent. When it's just me and possibly one skinny passenger, I won't have to check my bank account first. Also, the Aeronca's can burn auto gas or I may get lucky and stumble across one of those IFR 150s for night flying. The majority of the flying I'll be doing over the next few years will just be cruising up and down the coast line and rarely over 100 miles. While I would love to have a plane that could afford me longer distances, more comfort and more passengers, I simply can't fit it in my budget and still have money to fly it, upgrade it and maintain it.
I completely understand your position here. I was mostly in the same place prior to finding a partner to purchase with. If having a bit more plane becomes any more important to you, I’d recommend opening yourself up to the thought of a partnership.
I am in the same boat but I doubt if I can afford a plane. I learned in 79/80 at beech aircraft and had to stop flying about 10 years later due to other hobbies. Last few years i’ve got my medical and gone through ground school to get brushed up. More realistically for me is to continue renting. My night vision is not what it used to be so night flying might be a no go. I used to love flying after dinner. Less traffic and the air is smooth. I could get three touch and goes done in 1/2 hour and then do some sight seeing of the Oc/la basin.
I started looking to buy Spring of 2020. Learned a ton along the way. I walked away from , what I thought were great birds because the seller would not let me take the plane to a separate A&P. They wanted me to use their guy. No way. So I walked and glad I did. Look at Gruman Americans Traveler. 4 place. Comfortable. Reasonable buy in. Upgradeable as you go. Not super fast but 120 or so. I found trade a planes filters a high help. Good luck.
Sounds like you have some solid principles and stuck to your guns, certainly the right choice! I walked away from one because the broker wouldn’t let me inspect as deep as I wanted!
The most often overlooked alternative, in my opinion, is the Bellanca Super Viking. I wasn't even aware of that aircraft as an option before I bought my Mooney M20J. Though I have no regrets, it would have been valuable to know about the Bellanca. Essentially, you can get all the same specs, as far as speed and payload, from a Bellanca at an average of about $15k less. The only downside is that they need a big 300hp flat six to achieve the same top speed as the Mooney with only 200hp. That means they guzzle gas in comparison. Nevertheless, I would put the Super Viking as my #2 choice behind the M20J overall. My #3 would be the V-tail Bonanza.
The Bellanca is a great plane.. the panels aren't setup very well in my opinion.. especially for modern avionics.. difficult/expensive to retrofit too.. also, they tend to have higher maintenance costs.. wood/fabric etc.. great flying planes tho.. fast.. thirsty.. lol.. I had a M20K for years.. love the Mooneys..
I owned a 1976 bellanca super Viking - on cover of AOPA pilot - fabulous aircraft. Fast, ski tube( or golf clubs) true 4 seater, did I mention FAST! I went from cessna 150 to the lycoming 300 up Viking. What a rush. Now back flying a 150. Life goes full circle.
I really want a 150hp Citabria, but so does everybody else right now, apparently. About the time I'm asking for logbooks, somebody else is holding out a check. I'm also realizing how impractical they really are - and I'm not talking about the VFR panel, I'm talking about the low useful load and the low speed. So now I'm looking at a Grumman - about double the useful load, and a good 20kt faster, and probably cheaper to insure with its tricycle gear (haven't verified that yet), but not really able to land on the semi-improved Forest Service strips that make up our "adventure flying" here in the mountainous southwest. 172? Flown one - meh. Bonanza? Flown a Debonair - too much work to be fun. Mooney? Haven't flown one, but probably a similar workload to the Bonanza/Debonair, and it's getting away from my "mission". What does all this mean? Nothing. If I knew, I'd have made a decision by now.
Piper Cherokee 235 was my first plane. I paid 35,000 for a 1964 model. 1400 pound useful load and 800nm+ range. It is rated IFR. Downside 14/gph and not that fast 130 kts. Great family cruiser if you will do regional travel 300-600nm.
Well done video. I've owned many airplanes from a 150 and a couple of 172s to seaplanes, twins, a jet and a helicopter. Each one has had it's charms and it's drawbacks. The M20 is a solid choice. Combining speed with economy is the way to go. My current VariEze does that for me, with 180 mph at 5 gph. See www.rutanaircraftflyingexperience.org/post/2017/05/04/why-you-d-rather-have-a-varieze Financially speaking, when I look back over what I have spent on airplanes, boats, cars and women, I see just how shameful it is to have essentially wasted all the rest of my money on other stuff.
Until I was forced out by the cost of flying I flew 150s up to 177s. The 150 was the most fun and a lot like flying a leaf! I really enjoyed putting it through everything it was capable of!!
When I was young, my father owned a Bellanca Viking (predecessor to the Super Viking). Old school craftsmanship. One of the best wings in aviation. And, fast. I miss those days and that plane.
They seem like a good bargain right now too, maybe the Super Viking. I think people are afraid of the old school materials a bit (although they shouldn’t be)
I've owned several planes (including a Bonanza). I have a lot of time in Mooneys from my instructing days. The Mooney is great, but it's hard to work on due to being so tight on space. You get all that speed on low horsepower for a reason...everything is CRAMPED! I also worry about parts since the company is out of business. The Bonanza was more comfortable, but it was also very expensive to maintain. Once you get above a Cherokee or 172, the upkeep really starts killing you. I like them all. If you fit in a Mooney, it's a great choice.
I chose an A-10C with Link 16, CBU-105's, Mk-82 Air, 6 AGM 65Ds, a couple of AIM-9Xs, and brand spanking new wings. Set me back a pretty penny, but I demand the most of my aircraft. Buyer beware, though....the 30 mike mike GAU kicks like a mule. #BRRRRRRRRRRT
Saratoga? or Saratoga II for retractable.I also like the DA-40 with Diamond being the safest aircraft in GA plus the most innovative in both airframe and diesel engine, so flying over the Rockies is no big deal because of the turbocharger. Also consider this: a 10GPH aircraft burning 100ll is $4.55x10 x 2000 (hours) is $91,000 for 2k hrs of engine life. A DA-40 diesel is 6GPH at $4,07 x 2,000 hours so fuel cost over engine life is $48,840 . The salesmen never calculated that for you? Surprise. Prices are national averages today from AirNav. $45.50 per hour vs $24.42 per hour for fuel. I wish Textron had the brains to put the Continental CD300 in the G36 Bonanza and STC it to the older ones.. The stressful part about buying an aircraft is trying to take a limited (job) income and try to fit $1 where you want $5 to be.
I did a similar thing, what is my mission and what is the best plane. When I lived in Alaska, it was the Cessna 170. Now I am in the lower 48 and I went about the purchase decision for the flying I wanted to do down here, it came down to either a Bellanca Super Viking or a Mooney. I went with a 64 Mooney M20E. I have traveled all over the West and love the aircraft. I wanted the best bang for the buck and this plane is it!
There is just something about the Mooney, and I'll tell you what it is... First a comparison using cars: American cars a few decades ago, even when brand new, felt "loosie goosie," in that the steering was imprecise, requiring constant adjustments. But then you borrow your brother's MG Midget two-seater sports car, and it is a delight to drive, with its precise rack & pinion steering, and a compact, everything-functional feel. Now, a comparison using airplanes: I grew up on Cessna singles. When you taxi them the steering feels imprecise, because there are springs between your rudder pedals and the nose wheel turning actuator. Plus, the taxiing Cessna feels "loosie goosie," from the fact that the gear struts are actually springs. Like an American car from long ago, the machine wallows a bit during taxi. And the visibility is limited, especially in the larger Cessna singles, by a big, intrusive dashboard, and, arguably, by the high wing. The first time you sit in the cockpit of a Mooney, well, you'll know what I mean. It feels like a fighter! You can see! It is as if you are going to strap the plane on. Everything tight and precise. When I was in the USAF, in pilot training, a cross-country F-104 stopped in for fuel. The pilot let me "sit" his cockpit. Even though I was then accustomed to the sleek T-38, this F-104 took me back to the Mooney days, with its sports car feel. In the Mooney I felt more "pilot" than practically anywhere else. I got to raise and lower the landing gear. I even got to operate a little gate that allows additional ram air to enter the engine and provide an extra bit of power. I could have had fighters in the USAF, but I opted for the C-9 patient-hauling DC-9, and eventually went to the airlines (my dream) where I "managed crews" in big ole flight decks, and where I found that cockpit space is surprisingly unimportant. After many planes, more than any other, ... That Mooney made me feel like a real pilot!
This is a great video Cory. With my experience, the C-152 was never an option. I sat in one at the flight school and the yolk was obstructed by my leg because I'm tall. I Did 2 hours in a M20J before I started flight training and loved it. Since then all my 278 hrs has been in the C-172. Obviously I looked at them 1st now that I've decided to buy an airplane, but they are expensive. People think of them like they are Hondas with great resale value, and they are slow. I started looking at the Pipers becaue they were cheaper and I've always loved low wing design planes. I later found out that the 140 was comparable to the 152 and under powered. My focus then switched to something between 160-200 hp. The piper 160 and 180 was looking to be the best option, and I was not interested in the 235 model as it was not efficient. Warriors and Archers are scarce, and that's when I met a few people including you, who showed me that the Mooney M20C is is a plane that deserves to be looked at with its speed and efficiency. I cant wait to find the right one and start taking trips beyound the North East where I normally fly, and be apart of the Mooney family.
@@MyTimeToFly Live by the water and Retired . Been flying since I was 5 yrs old in a Bellanca 14-19. Keep up Flying. 14 yrs in N32DQ, Key West 6 hrs, 200'ASL. 62 Yrs Young. Enjoy Flying. th-cam.com/video/5C4L6bCsVm4/w-d-xo.html
Mooneys have a reputation for Crow Hopping upon less-than-perfect Landings, don't they? The good news is that the Wing Spar is hell for strong thereby withstanding the oscillating impacts from Crow Hopping.
Went with late model cessna 150M. Panel included gtn 650 - adsb in/out- mogas stc. So an ifr trainer burning premium autofuel with hourly operating cost of $22 to 24 dollars per hour. Whats not to love.
Great run down. I just bought my first plane last Aug and went with the Mooney M20K231. They are great looking planes, can’t get off the ramp without 2 or 3 look-backs at her 😍
There also is something to be said by the cockpit "feel." If you sit down in the pilot seat of a large Cessna, like a 210, 205, or 206, you notice that the dashboard panel goes way up in your face, esp. on the ground. The Mooney, OTOH, makes you feel like a fighter pilot. The controls are even more sensitive on the Mooney, and they are placed just right. Easy comparison: One is a steam locomotive; the other is an extension of you. It just FEELS good to pilot a Mooney.
the flight school im at currently has 2 c152s, 2 150s, a 150 aerobat, 2 piper warriors and a c172. all the cessnas are ifr rated, and my favourite 152 (G-BNPY) has a different propeller which gives it a much higher cruise speed. It'll usually cruise easily at 100+ KIAS, had it clocking 140knts ground speed on the downwind leg of the circuit one day with a strong tailwind. the other c152 has been kitted out with a full g5 system and i think its an AERA 660 (this navigation is in both of the 152s). they are great planes to fly, okay a bit cramped inside, but at least the 152s do feel a lot more modern than the pipers in the fleet
Love the Mooney's. Such a pretty plane. One more good piece since your talking about first airplanes is safety. A plus for the 172 is that it has the lowest accident rate per 1000 hours of all the airplanes if I remember correctly. Clearly a reason why it's a staple at flight schools.
unfortunately we cannot really conclude anything about relative safety of many GA planes because they are flown by different pilots and used for different purposes. The fact that they are used so much for training could very well be the cause of a better safety record, not the result.
I think you’re right there with the training point. So many hours flown with instruction and in relatively safe situations (not flying across the country or in mountainous terrain)
How do you choose between these four? You don't. You buy a Piper Cherokee or some other Piper model, or you buy a Grumman Tiger or other similar model, or a Sonex or something. The a150, too small, bad range, not good max load and slow of course. And the 150s are too expensive really, for what you get. 172 is just OK across the board. Mooney, too expensive, Beechcraft too expensive. Pipers are just as good, even with IFR capability, as the Beechcraft. Piper Arrow, Cherokee 6 seater. If money is no object disregard everything I said.
Haha, I love how you closed that statement! But in all honesty, our Mooney was just as affordable as any Cherokee on the market. But we bought it a year or so ago, and the market has jumped dramatically since that time!
Nice to know that my thinking about airplane purchase is paralleled in other people. And as I write this, I think it's regrettable that there are not really any "new" planes that fit the criteria of "affordable" and efficient. And, probably never were. Airplanes are inherently expensive due to low production numbers and high criteria components and construction. Even the experimental category is not "cheap". This is one expensive hobby or interest, and will continue to be so. Good luck with your Mooney. By the way are you an A&P?
You’re right, it’s not for the faint of heart or slim wallet. Not an A&P yet, but will certainly be pursing it. For now, under the direct supervision of one!
Mooney as a first aircraft? Hmmmm.. a complex aircraft with low prop, low clearance and "not so easy" landing procedure hardly qualifies for the first airplane to be owned by the freshly minted private pilot. At that point, Cessna 172 is much more appropriate. For the reference, I am the owner of Mooney 20J, and previously M20C
@@MyTimeToFly I bought mine when I had 80 and started flying it when I had 110 hrs. Being a chicken, I always flew it by the book and thus, I avoided any accidents, but I am supercautious which is not I can say for the rest of GA pilots. If you check Mooney market, you are extremely unlikely to find a Mooney that has never had a gear-up landing. It is very common, as common are prop strikes due to superlow clearance. In fact my insurance agent whose name is well known in GA world told me that it is not a gear-up landing that makes Mooney so unfavorable in the eyes of underwriter; after all each RG aircraft, be it Cessna, or Bonanza or Piper, sooner or later will be polishing runways with their own bellies because their pilots would forget to move the switch... it is low clearance and resulting prop strikes that puts Mooney on the black list. I don't know if you heard that but Mooney has a rule "third bounce is a prop strike" meaning that after the second bounce you have to go around because third bounce will send your Mooney to meet runway nose down. On the other hand, I managed to do 6 bounces when I was flying C152 or C172 as a student, without any adverse effect
I looked at a Mooney and really liked the economy, speed and high-altitude capability. but the cabin was cramped and landings are tricky. When landing you've got to get your airspeed just right and round off at just the right height or you can float on ground effect until you run out of runway. So I checked the Bonanza v-tail, which is a more comfortable plane but decided it sacrificed to much aerodynamically for speed. Even Bonanza enthusiasts admit the plane isn't very stable in roll, yaw and pitch, is prone to Dutch roll, and many are lost in bad weather (Bonanza people tend to blame the pilots for this). I bought a Navion A, which is built very sturdy, has a roomy cabin with a back seat that's comfortable for adults, has very stable flight characteristics, and with full flaps touches down softly at only 50 mph. It isn't as fast as the Bonanza but I don't care, it flies like a dream! I wish the Navion would go back into production!
I rented a Diamond two seater, the DA20, to get my license. I loved it, but good ones are very expensive to buy. They cannot be made IFR, and I wanted an instrument rating. I rented a Cessna 172 for a good while. I liked it, but good ones that are IFR are pricey, and I did not want a loan. I also rented a Cherokee 140, but it did not perform well in climb. To avoid getting a loan, I paid cash for a Cessna 150 with a classic 6-pack of instruments and got my instrument rating in it. The Cessna 150/152 club is very active, and a great community. Surprisingly, it is filled with retired professional pilots. Many pros spring for a Cessna 150 for personal flying. My wife told me she will never fly with me. I'm allowed to fly with only one of our kids at a time. Therefore, until now, the Cessna 150 has been good enough. However, now that the kids are almost adults, I'm running into a problem with weight and balance in the Cessna 150. Two adults with full fuel is over max weight, and it climbs poorly on warm days while loaded heavily. I'm thinking about my plane number two. Must be affordable, no loans for me, IFR, and able to climb well with two adults and enough fuel, even on warm days. I also want to get my Commercial license. It is possible to do that in a Cessna 150, but I would have to install a glass panel and an autopilot. I'm considering my options.
Cessna p210n. Speed, capacity, can outclimb the weather. Business trips. Enough money. propeller control. Radar Handles all but the inop strips. Even some that are
So, I learned to fly in the Navy. While stationed abroad, I'd join the Navy Flying Club that was on base, if they had one. Depending on where I was at, we had all sorts of aircraft, from Cessna 150's, 152's, 172's, 182's, Piper Cherokees, Beech Barons and T-34's that active duty and family could rent. After I left the Navy, when I decided to look for an aircraft to own, I looked at many flavors and settled on a '77 Grumman Tiger AA-5B. Long story short, I wanted something that was simple to fly, economical to maintain, had great performance and range, was sporty and was easy to learn to fly when my kids decided to get into aviation. I've owned that same aircraft for several years now and, since then, my son has used it to get his private, instrument, commercial and CFI. We both fly it together for training as well as pleasure, taking it to Oshkosh whenever we can. My wife and daughters have no interest in flying GA, so the Tiger is a perfect fit for our needs. We've just completed a full panel upgrade, replacing the plastic panel with a treated aluminum, power coated panel, replaced the original A/I and HSI with two Garmin G5's, added a Garmin USB power port, and moved some instruments around to make it more user friendly. It makes instrument flying a dream. My only regret is not spending the cash on an autopilot, but that will come later. The Tiger is fast.. 140 KTAS at 8,500' MSL burning 8.5 to 9.5 GPH at 2600 RPM running 50 ROP. She holds 51 gallons usable fuel. We are based in Broomfield, Colorado (KBJC), just 25 miles north of Denver, so dealing with density altitude is always a challenge, but the Tiger does well with the Lycoming O-360 pumping out 180 HP. We just fly with tabs full to reduce the takeoff weight. That still gives us 38 gallons of usable fuel for a cross country. The Tiger is fun to fly.. very maneuverable and light on the controls. Like your Mooney, it loves to fly, so slowing it down on approach and landing can be a challenge for the new pilot. But, if you fly by the numbers and fine tune your technique, it's a breeze to make those landings a greaser. The large rudder is an excellent tool for handling crosswinds as there is plenty of rudder authority. The best feature of all is the sliding canopy. I just love that fighter pilot feeling it gives you... that, and it's great for those hot days as we can open it up about 1/4 way to cool things down. We just have to keep the airspeed under 113 KIAS per the POH. Congrats on your choice of the Mooney and have fun with it. Looking forward to many more videos from you. Here's a link so some videos of past flights we've made... th-cam.com/channels/Yp1lsafqwcgdhMwwGx9ULA.htmlvideos
So awesome, what an amazing bond I’m sure you and your son have flying! I know many people who absolutely love the Grumman! I appreciate you watching!!!
I always hated working on Mooneys' avionics. That sloped windshield makes for a tight fit when you're trying to reach behind the panel from the top. I can only imagine that they'd be a dream to own and fly, though. Every owner I spoke to had 0 regrets.
Thanks for the real world feedback. I've always hesitated to move to the 1 piece windshield due to the added complexity of getting to the avionics. For now, my avionics are easily accessible through 2 access panels just in front of the windshield.
I would have encouraged you go with a C182, unlike the 172, the 182 is a true 4 place airplane. Reasonable to maintain with great resale value. Stable like a 172 but with a 4 place engine. Having grown up with Bonanza's, there is truly no greater airplane that is if your flush with cash. You should also consider some of the pipers, I have many an hour in a Bonanza, and they are truly a joy to fly but God the cost to maintain one. Constant speed prop, flower flaps, retractable landing gear with fully enclosed gear doors, ours has the retractable step. None of these things are cheap. If your concerned about fuel burn per hour you really can't afford a complex single. I can buy a piper wing for what a Bonanza aeleron costs. Plus finding a good beech mechanic is another story. Plus the 182 is going to behave like a high performance 172.
@@MyTimeToFly I know, several factors contribute to that. I think popularity due to ease of flying for a entry level pilot. Basically you've got a 172 magnum. Although it four seats anything much above sea level and a 172 is a good two person airplane. I can't name the number of accidents I've seem with high density altitude and 172's that the owner tried to fly with four people because it had four seats. I've told more than one 172 pilot if your going to fly the western mountain states take the back seats out! Their dead weight, you can't use them safely so why pack the weight. Often if it were just two people I would pull the back seat out of my V35K which also allowed me to keep my center of gravity as far forward as possible plush was 44lbs lighter. Plus for a low time pilot things don't get ahead of you so quickly with a 182. You get into true IMC, get sloppy on the on Instruments, leave the power on and you can quickly be approaching 200 kias. One thing my father who was a 35 year ATP passed on. If you find yourself in turbulent IMC slowly pull the nose up, drop the gear, bring in 2300rpm open your cowel flaps and you can quit worrying about your airspeed running away, I would imagine this holds true for a Mooney
Again great points and very practical advice regarding the seats. The Mooney certainly can be configured such that the airspeed won’t get away from you. But, if you’re not proactive about getting the gear down...it can and will get fast!
@@MyTimeToFly my father was a 36,000 ATP, who lived to fly and put an airplane on more that sat in it. In his early years when he wasn't flying the DC3 for West Coast Airlines he was flying charter and demo/sales for the Beechcraft dealer in Boise. My God that man could fly a Bonanza well, but what stands out is a couple pointers he gave me. First watch your CG as the V Tails could easily be loaded into an aft CG condition that with full tanks you don't even notice until several hours into the flight you find you keep having to add just a hair of nose down trim every once in a while, until your configuring for landing and you find yourself having real difficulty maintaining trim and having to add more power just to keep the nose down, and then it wants to flair about 100ft agl. The other observation mentioned earlier is lowering the gear. He said if you find yourself in severe turbulence, especially IMC lower the gear, even if your way above VNE lower the gear now granted as he said you may tear off a gear door, but it might keep you from getting killed. Another was if you find yourself in mountainous terrain and maybe being forced to remain VFR because of conditions and the canyons are getting narrower, pull the power back, lower the gear, lower 15-20 degrees of flaps, open the cowel flaps, and bring your power up to about 70-75% and you'll be able to fly at 75-90kias all day long make tight high bank turns and not loose it or stall because your now 20-30kias above stall. Just some useful information. Also he ALWAYS pulled out the pilots hand book and checked our density altitude and what our take off run should be given our weight and altitude. Happy Skies
I'm 11 hours into getting my ticket and bought a house in an air park, so I guess you can say it's gonna happen. From my research you can fly a M20C @ C150 speeds and almost have C150 fuel burn. Most ppl don't seem to know that and recommend a Bo or a Commanche. Of course, that C150 isn't ever going to cruise @ 150kts. Mooney and AA5 is on my short list. There are MANY RVs in my airpark though. I'm debating on Mooney and having to find an A&P or RV and doing the work in my hangar next to my house. Downside there is having to fly commercial when we take the 7 yo. I always wanted a Long Eze, but getting that in and out of our 2200' strip would be sketchy. I've been watching your videos for a few months now. Keep it up.
Thanks a lot for being here, and congrats on the hangar house. Sounds like you’ve got a fair number of decisions to make. My only real recommendation...be patient. It’s not easy, but the perfect deal will present itself when the time is right!
So many thing about this just dont make sense. Why even include a 150 since you know your mission is to carry 4 people. Why even include 172 since your primary mission is cross country. Just a waste of time. So all the negatives you mentioned about the bonanzas apply to that same model mooney but you disregarded them for the mooney. There are fan boys on both the mooney side and the bonanza side but lets be honest that both models and years you mention of them have exactly the same negatives but u like the mooney better. A C model is just as outdated on average as an early bonanza. This would of been a more credible video if you just said. I looked at both an old mooney and an old bonanza and although they both have old panels, old engines, i liked the mooney better. But instead you say the bonanzas are outdated then you say you bought a C model mooney which in general is just as outdated. Plus the elephant in the room that mooney is out of business and bonanza is still the longest production aircraft in the world. That in itself would be a no brainer for me.
To be clear, I am not and never was a “Mooney Fanboy”. The Bonanza does I’m fact have engine packages not found in a Mooney (E-225), which are more costly to rebuild and have lower TBOs. Also, it was my experience that many fewer Bonanzas in my price range had decently upgraded panels. These are just observations through my experience, not the gospel.
Thanks for being here Paul! I have no doubt the community would welcome you with open arms. Your best bet is to find a local airport and just start hanging around a little. Listen, observe, and ad find a way to start getting involved!
I own the first BE35 that you showed N9606K. We took the same journey a few years ago C152, C172, PA28, M20J, BE35 took a hard look at all. C152 to small. C172 To expensive, PA28 to slow, M20J to small and they all leaked fuel, BE35 Fast and roomy but not cheap. Nice video.
V-tail Bonanzas have corrosion problems on the magnesium ruddervators with a MSB requiring replacement and few affordable options to comply. Another gotcha on the V-tail is you can take off in CG limits, but land with CG too far back after fuel burn with 4 full size adults. Have operated 3 Beech aircraft including V tail, they are expensive to maintain and operate but handle great in the air. Flying a Mooney 201 now, in my opinion the best Mooney in all payload and performance, operating costs and design trade offs, but will not carry 4 adults with more than 3 hours of fuel. Check for fuel tank seepage, water damage inside cabin structure on pilot side, engine mounts in prebuy but overall not to many issues on preowned Mooneys.
The 206 is a great airplane, especially if you’re looking to haul a lot of weight. The downside being a big increase in fuel turn over my Mooney. For me, I simply didn’t need to haul the weight, and the entry cost is much too high.
I just about fell out of my chair when I saw N4061N in this video. I just bought it from a friend a month ago. It's currently at KDVT. Now I just need a CFI LOL! Thanks for the informative videos sir!
Thanks for the video. I am right where you were. 172, 182, Beech 35, or Mooney. The only thing not on your pros and cons was insurance cost. The beech is almost triple. compared to the other three.
I’ve owned a 150, 172 and a Mooney. Mooney was my favorite. Took trips from Oklahoma to Oshkosh, Orlando and flew Angel Flights to Houston. No longer flying but attend OSH annually and will forever be a Mooniac!
I have had my eyes open for the really good 77 78 Piper Arrow 3 Turbo FB with mods. It has the speed (160knts). It can get above the weather (20,000ft). It has a good useful load (1000lb). With a efficient fuel burn (10/12 GPH) and a price under $100k (updated) seem to make it the right aircraft for my mission flying 500 to 1000 mile trips into cities and Villages around Alaska. Thoughts?
Seems like a good option, although I can’t say I know too much about the Arrow. Perhaps a Mooney M20J should be on the list, although you won’t quite get to 20k feet.
This was the first video I've ever seen on your channel. I just completed watching it just now. I already subscribed and rated it thumbs up. I liked your criteria analyzing and summaries of each plane. I'm a planning to purchase one this and begin lessons in it, so it won't have to be my forever plane, but maybe it will be. I absolutely loved how you fit the title of your channel into the last line of your video presentation. That moved me. Great work!
Kind of surprised not to see a Piper Archer on your short list. Similar with the 180 hp engine, seating, 10gph fuel rate, available parts, knowledgeable repair folks, etc. I’ve been looking at planes for a similar missions as yours, considered some of the same planes, and the Archers seem like one of the best options out there. Proof, I think, is they are in such high demand and so can be hard to find. But I think with some patience and research they are obtainable and an excellent option.
The Archer was definitely discussed once or twice, but likely due to limited supply we never found one that fit our mission just right...for the right price.
I bought a Mooney back in the early 80's. A M20A, wood wing. Faster than the metal wing with the same engine. Loved it. I could economy cruise at about 150mph and about 5 to 6 gallons per hour. Better than my car and much faster. 170 mph at about 10 gph.
In short ... 172, slow and boring; 152, reeeealy boring; Beech, expensive!; Mooney, fast but quirky: Piper Warrior, Archer, Arrow and T-Arrow, good compromise. My dad owned a Mooney, he loved it. My Pipers, how'd you guess? I loved them. ;) S
Congrats on finding "your" plane. Thanks for posting some of the factors that weighed on your decision. Do you find the absence of a pilot side door to be an inconvenience? I find having to crawl in to over the right seat to start the preflight, then crawl out again, then crawl in again before my passenger boards to be a major pain. Considering the number of GA aircraft without pilot side doors, I'm obviously in the minority with regard to this issue.
Thanks, it certainly doesn’t add to convenience..but I have found some work arounds. For instance, I keep the small pilot side window open, and reach back in to shit off the lights and such after I check them in preflight. I would have loved to have a pilot side door, but it was low on the priority list.
I once griped about this regarding a Debonair, and the owner/instructor I was renting it from asked if I would rather have the passengers get in last, or have them getting in first, and be sitting there bored while I did the preflight, and messing with the controls and instruments. I had to concede the point.
Mooneys porpoise like crazy.... A fellow pilot I knew owned a 69 E class. When he bought it, it had some corrosion and it hadn’t flown in over twenty years. With a lot of TLC we got the airplane airworthy. Even though it was the ugliest plane on the ramp, it was beautiful in the air. Unfortunately a few years ago he did a gear up landing and totaled it. I sure miss that plane.
Bummer about the gear up. I can't say that I agree with "porpoise like crazy". You certainly need to be on your airspeed, and understand how weight changes speeds over the numbers, but if you can manage those factors I feel mine lands quite easy.
Started looking at the 172 for obvious reasons, first being it is the plane I have been training in. But after looking at 172 prices it was nuts. Switched scope of plane search to the 182. You can get a much higher performing and higher useful load plane for about the same price (ish).
Your statement about the 182 is true, especially in the useful load arena. I will say though, I can cruise at the same speed or faster in my Mooney burning 3-5 gallons less per hour.
@@MyTimeToFly I would love a Mooney for all the reasons you have explained. Tough plane to beat, however, our mission includes flying into backcountry strips, STOL capability, and the ability to carry mtn bikes and or camping gear. 182 will work for this mission, sadly, burning more fuel in the process.
I really appreciate the fact that you added the pros and the cons. I am trying to pursue my instrument as well as having aircraft that will get me places after I get my instrument. I am currently looking at Cardinals and Piper arrow three turbo.
Great video! I’m currently trying to figure what I want for my first plane. There are so many things to consider and and no one plane does everything. My biggest requirements are useful load and overall operating costs. I’m leaning towards an Archer or possibly even a Dakota , but there are are many other viable options out there too.
My Time To Fly that’s definitely one I’ve been considering. There’s certainly plenty of useful load and room to grow into. I’m a huge Mooney fan because of the speed and fuel economy, but I’d be sacrificing space and useful load for any in my price range.
I would like a Piper. My second choice would be an aero commander 114B, a fast wide cabined 4 place plane, single engine of course. Mooneys are awesome little planes. That forward angled rudder is lie no other!
I went through the same process a year ago and came to the same conclusion. I wanted something faster than a 172, reasonably efficient, a decent load carrying capability, and a good value. I really had my heart set on a V-tail Bonanza just because I think it’s the coolest looking GA plane ever made. Mooneys weren’t really on my list because I had no experience with them whatsoever and I had heard that they were really tight inside. I got to get up close to one while I was on the road with my job. Not as tight as everyone complains about. I happened to find one close to me for sale and thought I would go check it out on a whim. It was a beautiful M20J that had been loved on by it’s two airline pilot owners with one of them being in A&P with IA. He had gone through through it spinner to tail taking care of every issue. When I started talking to him about performance and efficiency, it just started ticking off every box that I had set. I finally realized that my mission would be 99% flying by myself and that I wanted something fast and efficient. There was no choice left. This Mooney was it! The acquisition cost was tens of thousands of dollars less than any other comparable plane of the same vintage. The reputation it has, as far as it being difficult to land, is absolute hogwash for anyone who knows how to fly a plane by the numbers. The one problem I had… I had to learn how to get it to slow down. Not a bad problem to have! I was able to complete a bucket list item with my Mooney. I flew from central Ohio to Tampa, Florida NONSTOP and got to land at the airport I taught at in my own airplane! PRICELESS!
I have found that most people who complain about Mooney's being "cramped" have never actually been in one. Unless you are trying to stuff 4 NBA players into a short-body, there's is more than adequate room. I think people see them sitting on the ground with the pilot seats fully aft against the bench and start jumping to conclusions. I fly my C with my seat fully forward for takeoff/landing, and one notch back from that in cruise - my rear passenger has *more* foot space than i do in both of those positions. As far as it being difficult to land.... I met my Mooney at W75 with its 2,000' runway. Landed there several times in my first few days of ownership, and never once needed more than half the runway to stop. Like you said - fly it by the numbers and everything is fine.
Chicken Kriket's I left from OSU and flew to ZPH (cheap gas) before a quick hop to TPF. Flight time was just a little under 5 hours and I burned about 42 gallons.
You can't go wrong with the Mooney. Even in the flight simulation world, that speed Carries over. In my acclaim I can get up 21,000 feet with oxygen and get 230 knots out of it with a tailwind and sip fuel. Going the other way on the other hand maybe 180 indicated if lucky. But all in all it is a great aircraft. If I had the Financial Resources, to get my license and fly, there's no question the Mooney would be on the top of my priority list. As turboprops go, my still favorite turboprop of all time is the Mitsubishi Mu2. It has loads of sexy written all over it, but that's just me. Cheers Dion YT: #dionm01
Own a 1973 Cessna 172M. Have had it for almost 3 years and it’s been great. Did the interior and installed an engine monitor among other things. Amazing experience. I want to get my instrument rating and then step up to a Mooney M20J because it’s fast, low maintenance and low operating cost. Prefer a cosmetically in bad shape airplane that O can fix, but airframe and engine in excellent condition. Expect to do the switch in Q1 2021. Remember, the Bonanza flights fast because of the engine, Mooneys because of its wings! Thanks Roy Lopresti!
Awesome man, glad your loving the 172! What engine monitor did you put in? I couldn’t have said it better regarding the speed comparison between the BO and the Mooney!
The two planes I’ve considered mostly have been a Piper Cherokee 6/Saratoga, and a Mooney M20. I like the Cherokee for its useful load and intimidating size (ramp appeal at least to me) but I also love the speed and range of the Mooney plus the retractable gear makes me smile
3 years old and still current... I wenn with the Beech Debonair. I fehlt, ist is the Beat mix for what I need. The poor man‘s Bonanza is technically a Bonanza. Just cheaper
I have only rented, but haven't flown in years due to high cost. You can't go wrong with a Cessna 172, albeit they are slow. They are very stable and more forgiving of pilot error than comparable low winger
There is certainly nothing wrong with a Cessna. I mostly encourage pilots to get out and fly many types prior to passing judgment or picking a favorite.
Dave, I would suggest flying each and picking. Plane owners are Ego Maniacs about their planes. Besides Mooneys are the best! Great economy fast strong good payload and by the way my girl 1978 M20 J does not have bladders and never been resealed. She’s hangered her entire life and I don’t land on grass. Good luck. ps The Comanche 250/260 was my second choice.
I am looking to get my first airplane, almost done with my private license. Did you look into experimental planes? The more I research the more they make sense. They are fast, economical, cost soo much less to maintain, great instruments, etc.
I do love the concept of an experimental, but at some point during my search I decided I needed 4 seats. Finding a cost effective 4 seat experimental is pretty tough!
It’s unfortunate you only looked at “older” Bonanzas, E-series, pre-60s. I trained on Cessnas & bought a C172, flown it 10 years, but moved up to a 1966 Bonanza, 285hp injected engine and upgraded to modern avionics 3 times now over, the last 24 years, I’m still in love, what a Great all around airplane. 👌 But, Mooneys are good airplanes also. 😊
Just bought a higher engine time 1968 M20C, only had it for two months and love it, I would say don’t buy 172 because they are now terribly expensive. Don’t buy a 150 because it’s a lame definition of flying, unless it’s a 150/150 or you just don’t care to have fun, go anywhere or just want to build lots of time for getting to commercial. they are very sluggish! Know nothing about bonanza The Mooney is the best as of now, you can get a very capable fast plane for the same price range as a 172 maybe better The high time Mooney is really great if your buying outright because it allows you to get into it cheaper or should I say slower without killer insurance and interest
I’m looking for my first plane. I’ve heard to buy your 2nd plane first. My mission will be 80% solo/CFI proficiency flying, and 20% sightseeing/XC with my spouse and 2 kids. I kinda wanted to skip the 150/152, but would consider one to build time. I think the complex fuel system of the Bonanza would rule them out. So, I’ve been looking at Piper 140/160 Cherokees, 180 Comanches, Cessna 172, or a Piper Tri-Pacer. Why is the 172 seemingly so much more expensive than the Pipers? I don’t really see a lot of Mooneys for sale. Thanks for the video
Right on man. I don't really know why 172s are so much more money, perhaps the Pipers recent wing ADs have lowered the values. I'm very happy with my Mooney as my first plane, but I do agree they can be hard to find.
I learned to fly in a diamond DA40. It is a great airplane for cross country. Burning 9 gallons per hour can easily get you 140 knots. But because of high maintaince cost (most say is because of tight engine compartment and expensive parts) and sky high purchase cost, I dropped it off of my watch list.
Love to put it on my list if it weren't so expensive to buy and maintain, right on there! But flying is an good itch that most of us keep loving to scratch.
Looking at Maules & Cessna 180s for backcountry flying, but nothing beats the Sexy Bonanzas. I have logged more time in Bonanzas & Barons than all my tailwheel time put together. Enjoyed your video
You mentioned you looked at the Beech Sierra, what made you cross it off your list? Apart from speed obviously as the Mooney is at least 10-20 knots faster. I'm considering the Sierra as it looks like a great balance between building time and have great performance with a comparable fuel burn to the Mooney.
Just after finishing training I bought a 1966 Cherokee 180 for 45k minimal IFR. It was just a little faster than 172. Flew this beauty for 10 years, 600hrs.
Cheaper than Cessna, easier to fly, excellent for a person in my situation. (Older, 64, female) Later sold part ownership. At 74 stopped flying.
What a wonderful ride!!
Thanks so much for sharing Susan! Your story is an inspiration to many, I have no doubt about that!!!
My first airplane was a straight 35 Beech Bonanza, 1948 SN 1525 N 4504 V. I too bought mine, without any time in a Bonanza. I took an airliner to Newark N J from N E Ohio and paid the man. Done a few take off and landings, and was socked in for almost a week in Monmouth County Airport. I found it very east to fly and land, and that's with no adjustable prop nor retract time.` It had the E 185 HP engine, which meant 185 HP on take-off only. I owned it for 18 years and surely enjoyed it. I did do the spar mod and the A.D. on the V tail block. I top overhauled it and put new plexiglass in. Flew it many hours and sold it for $2200 more than I paid for it. ($5600). Sold it in 1982, when I got married. A fine fine airplane.
Such a cool story! What an adventure that pickup must have been!
Due to my physical abilities, I'll never be a pilot, so I do enjoy watching videos on many different types of planes.
Thanks so much!
Don’t worry you’re already a legend
But you could be a passenger!
You can be co-pilot at any flying school at whatever plane you like....
We all rented/renting planes to fly around, you indeed member of the flying community.
I don't know your condition but you know that you can get a sport pilot's license if you have a driver's license
This was a good rundown, thanks for posting! My first airplane purchase was a 172 XP, which was relatively cheap to buy in decent shape ($45K), cheap to run and maintain (9-10 GPH running LOP), and a great plane to do a lot of learning in. I flew it 200+ hours in the 2 years I owned it, flew my PP check ride in it, and loved it. But like you, I found it just did t have the long legs my mission required. I looked at Bonanzas, but the Mooneys were just so much better in the areas I cared about. I bought a M20K (231) and have never looked back. I liked all the features you named, but I also liked the Mooneys’ safety record, which a lot of people are not aware of. I’ve flown 150+ hours per year in the 3 years Ive owned her, most of that XC, and most of that above 12,000 MSL. It gets me and my family where we need to go quickly and safely. Great community, great technical support, just an awesome marque.
Couldn’t have said it better myself, great stuff!
In a way I enjoyed the presentation, thanks, and I do realize that this was more of a general overview regarding the arrival at a decision on one's first airplane. That said, I would have liked to have seen more of the numbers. I mean why did you opt for a partner instead of going solo? And how is that working? Partnerships are a subject that you could spend a considerable amount of time discussing, I realize that also. Finally, there was no mention of the difficulties in doing the simple things associated with aircraft ownership, the primary of which is storage. I was on a waiting list for 6 years at a local airport. I'd given up on ever getting a hangar and thus I gave up on getting an airplane. They - unbelievably - called me 7 years after I "got on the list" and told me that they had a hangar come available but I'd need to get out there within 2 days or else they'd move on. I was out of town, but they didn't care. So I missed that "opportunity". Sigh. Anyway, thanks for the effort in making the video.
Jerry, check out my most recent video where I talk through our costs for 2020. I'm so thankful to be in a partnership, I simply can't fly enough to justify paying for the total cost myself. I did get lucky in finding a good partner. Our local airport also had a wait list, but most on the waitlist also didn't have an airplane yet. As soon as you actually own a plane, you go right to the top of the list.
Would have been nice if you had put numbers to “cheap”, “expensive”, “slow”, “fast”, interesting video but since I don’t own a plane I have no idea how to interpret those statements.
Thanks Kevin, you’ve opened my eyes to what might be important to non owners.
Cessna 172 200,000 bonanza 600,000 mooney EXPENSIVE
I don’t know who’s buying new planes...but it’s not me!
Look at planes for sale on tradeaplane.com there are also general performance specs on there.
If you want to get some additional cost/performance information planephd.com has estimated maintenance/ownership cost and some other performance info such as fuel burn etc.
Thanks for pointing us to some helpful tools! I appreciate you watching!
At the 2:10 mark, that’s my Cessna 150!!!
Thanks for adding it into tour video
And a beautiful bird she is! Very similar paint to the 172 I most recently flew!
thats sick lol
struggling to imagine a set of circumstances where your choices are a 150 or a Bonanza
I have to say, they were both real possibilities as I searched for a bird. Likely the biggest reason is moved past the 150 was the discovery of a gentlemen who wanted to partner in a plane. It pushed the budget to a place where a 4 seat airplane was a possibility.
@@MyTimeToFly And what are your impressions of partnering, now that you've done it? (Loaded question, I know, since your partner is likely to read your reply, but we do what we can.)
I wouldn’t hold back, even knowing he might read it. For me, it’s been a great experience. Wes and I have similar goals, are both financially stable, and both fly about the same amount. I can definitely see where it could go badly if you had the wrong partners involved!
Mooney is a great plane, but not for faint of heart or low time private pilot. Tricky to fly, insurance is up there and you need at least 7-10 hrs with an instructor before solo in one. Gotta have your comolex and high performance endorsement and 400 hrs recommended in last 3 yrs too, not to mention they sit much lower than a bonanza or 172. The old V-tail again not a good first airplane choice. Need the complex and high performance and at least 400 hrs. I'd also recommend all ppl candidates go take sine aerobatic lessons and learn about spins and recovery. We get spin training during the commercial phase... A C-172 or a Cherokee 140/160 are good entry level planes for the ppl student. And even for IFR. The next move up would be a C-182 or 206/207 are the work horses. A Cherokee 160 or 180 or a Cherokee 6 or a A33/34 Bonanza. Work your way up. I now or rather knew far to many now passed pilots that bought way more airplane than they could handle and paid the ultimate sacrifice with loss of their life, by having too much $, which doesn't equal safe or making a good informed decision. Just because you CAN buy it, doesnt mean you SHOULD buy it. And never be in a hurry to get anywhere, for anyone, ever. Also, get-there-itis is a widower of general aviation pilots. Lastly, do NOT play with mother nature in a plane. As Arnold Shwartzeniger says, you will lose..
I respect your opinion, but disagree on the difficulty of flying a Mooney. At least the C model we have. It’s proven to be quite easy to fly for a coupe of 150 hour pilots.
You’re correct Pat. I did not have to get the HP rating for my 180hp Mooney.
@Pat Rowan He just wanted to drop his little lecture, nevermind the details.
At the 10:42 mark is my M20K 252 on the grass in Smithville, TX. We now live in Denver and I keep 252AD at KBJC.
So cool! Thanks for watching Paul
Mooney's are great planes. I have many hours in them. But my favorite is the Cessna 177RG. Fast, economical, roomy and comfortable! No strut for outstanding visibility, 48 inch cabin width, two wide doors, and 142 kts cruise on 10 gph with 60 gallon tanks!
Thanks for the comment, I agree the Mooney is great but can find greatness in many planes. The Cardinal has a lot of awesome qualities which you have listed!
I've wanted to buy a plane for most of my adult life. My favorites are the Mooney M20, Beechcraft Bonanza and Cessna 177RG (wider cabin than the 172 and no struts obstructing view). Unfortunately, I believe I'm likely going to end up with a 150 or even an old Aeronca Champ simply due to price. I would love to have a 4 place with a comfortable cabin, IFR rated and better range, but I won't need any of that for 60 to 80 percent of the flying I'll be doing and after 30 years of cravings, I want to make this a reality before I'm too old to clear my medical. Also, burning 5 gph vs 9 to 13 gph means I can fly more often. When I want to fly my wife and kids somewhere, I'll have to rent. When it's just me and possibly one skinny passenger, I won't have to check my bank account first. Also, the Aeronca's can burn auto gas or I may get lucky and stumble across one of those IFR 150s for night flying. The majority of the flying I'll be doing over the next few years will just be cruising up and down the coast line and rarely over 100 miles. While I would love to have a plane that could afford me longer distances, more comfort and more passengers, I simply can't fit it in my budget and still have money to fly it, upgrade it and maintain it.
I completely understand your position here. I was mostly in the same place prior to finding a partner to purchase with. If having a bit more plane becomes any more important to you, I’d recommend opening yourself up to the thought of a partnership.
I am in the same boat but I doubt if I can afford a plane. I learned in 79/80 at beech aircraft and had to stop flying about 10 years later due to other hobbies. Last few years i’ve got my medical and gone through ground school to get brushed up. More realistically for me is to continue renting. My night vision is not what it used to be so night flying might be a no go. I used to love flying after dinner. Less traffic and the air is smooth. I could get three touch and goes done in 1/2 hour and then do some sight seeing of the Oc/la basin.
Always good to know your limitations! Good man!
I started looking to buy Spring of 2020. Learned a ton along the way. I walked away from , what I thought were great birds because the seller would not let me take the plane to a separate A&P. They wanted me to use their guy. No way. So I walked and glad I did. Look at Gruman Americans Traveler. 4 place. Comfortable. Reasonable buy in. Upgradeable as you go. Not super fast but 120 or so. I found trade a planes filters a high help. Good luck.
Sounds like you have some solid principles and stuck to your guns, certainly the right choice! I walked away from one because the broker wouldn’t let me inspect as deep as I wanted!
Flew the Grumman ,great machine.I dlike any o.them.j.jump onto sky.👍
Right on, any plane is better than no plane.
The most often overlooked alternative, in my opinion, is the Bellanca Super Viking. I wasn't even aware of that aircraft as an option before I bought my Mooney M20J. Though I have no regrets, it would have been valuable to know about the Bellanca. Essentially, you can get all the same specs, as far as speed and payload, from a Bellanca at an average of about $15k less. The only downside is that they need a big 300hp flat six to achieve the same top speed as the Mooney with only 200hp. That means they guzzle gas in comparison. Nevertheless, I would put the Super Viking as my #2 choice behind the M20J overall. My #3 would be the V-tail Bonanza.
I’ve also heard the Bellanca is the most “true” flying aircraft out there. An absolute pleasure from what I’ve heard! Thanks for watching!
The Bellanca is a great plane.. the panels aren't setup very well in my opinion.. especially for modern avionics.. difficult/expensive to retrofit too.. also, they tend to have higher maintenance costs.. wood/fabric etc.. great flying planes tho.. fast.. thirsty.. lol.. I had a M20K for years.. love the Mooneys..
I hope to fly in a Bellanca someday!
I owned a 1976 bellanca super Viking - on cover of AOPA pilot - fabulous aircraft. Fast, ski tube( or golf clubs) true 4 seater, did I mention FAST! I went from cessna 150 to the lycoming 300 up Viking. What a rush. Now back flying a 150. Life goes full circle.
Life sure does have a way of coming back around. I haven’t had the chance of flying a Viking, but I hope to soon.
I really want a 150hp Citabria, but so does everybody else right now, apparently. About the time I'm asking for logbooks, somebody else is holding out a check. I'm also realizing how impractical they really are - and I'm not talking about the VFR panel, I'm talking about the low useful load and the low speed. So now I'm looking at a Grumman - about double the useful load, and a good 20kt faster, and probably cheaper to insure with its tricycle gear (haven't verified that yet), but not really able to land on the semi-improved Forest Service strips that make up our "adventure flying" here in the mountainous southwest. 172? Flown one - meh. Bonanza? Flown a Debonair - too much work to be fun. Mooney? Haven't flown one, but probably a similar workload to the Bonanza/Debonair, and it's getting away from my "mission". What does all this mean? Nothing. If I knew, I'd have made a decision by now.
I love it, I can just feel your thought process! Thank you for sharing!
Piper Cherokee 235 was my first plane. I paid 35,000 for a 1964 model. 1400 pound useful load and 800nm+ range. It is rated IFR. Downside 14/gph and not that fast 130 kts. Great family cruiser if you will do regional travel 300-600nm.
For sure a workhorse, it would make me want a Cherokee 6!
Well done video. I've owned many airplanes from a 150 and a couple of 172s to seaplanes, twins, a jet and a helicopter. Each one has had it's charms and it's drawbacks. The M20 is a solid choice. Combining speed with economy is the way to go. My current VariEze does that for me, with 180 mph at 5 gph. See www.rutanaircraftflyingexperience.org/post/2017/05/04/why-you-d-rather-have-a-varieze
Financially speaking, when I look back over what I have spent on airplanes, boats, cars and women, I see just how shameful it is to have essentially wasted all the rest of my money on other stuff.
I love it man! It’s awesome that you’ve had such a wide range of experiences!
I was able to purchase a Gulfstream because I didn’t have a wife. lol 😂
Until I was forced out by the cost of flying I flew 150s up to 177s. The 150 was the most fun and a lot like flying a leaf! I really enjoyed putting it through everything it was capable of!!
I did all my training in a 150, I wouldn’t want to stuff myself back in one now…but it was fun back then.
What about insurance cost? Many first buyers have low time. Had to scratch complex off the list because of that.
Insurance isn’t cheap, but is more economical being split in the partnership.
When I was young, my father owned a Bellanca Viking (predecessor to the Super Viking). Old school craftsmanship. One of the best wings in aviation. And, fast. I miss those days and that plane.
They seem like a good bargain right now too, maybe the Super Viking. I think people are afraid of the old school materials a bit (although they shouldn’t be)
Flying from 4 years DA62 and just love it...❤️
I have a little time in a DA20, it was fun for sure. The DA62 is one awesome looking twin!
I've owned several planes (including a Bonanza). I have a lot of time in Mooneys from my instructing days. The Mooney is great, but it's hard to work on due to being so tight on space. You get all that speed on low horsepower for a reason...everything is CRAMPED! I also worry about parts since the company is out of business. The Bonanza was more comfortable, but it was also very expensive to maintain. Once you get above a Cherokee or 172, the upkeep really starts killing you. I like them all. If you fit in a Mooney, it's a great choice.
Thank you sir
I chose an A-10C with Link 16, CBU-105's, Mk-82 Air, 6 AGM 65Ds, a couple of AIM-9Xs, and brand spanking new wings. Set me back a pretty penny, but I demand the most of my aircraft. Buyer beware, though....the 30 mike mike GAU kicks like a mule. #BRRRRRRRRRRT
The A-10 is a beast (from the outside looking in). Thanks for serving our country!!!
Saratoga? or Saratoga II for retractable.I also like the DA-40 with Diamond being the safest aircraft in GA plus the most innovative in both airframe and diesel engine, so flying over the Rockies is no big deal because of the turbocharger. Also consider this: a 10GPH aircraft burning 100ll is $4.55x10 x 2000 (hours) is $91,000 for 2k hrs of engine life. A DA-40 diesel is 6GPH at $4,07 x 2,000 hours so fuel cost over engine life is $48,840 . The salesmen never calculated that for you? Surprise. Prices are national averages today from AirNav. $45.50 per hour vs $24.42 per hour for fuel. I wish Textron had the brains to put the Continental CD300 in the G36 Bonanza and STC it to the older ones..
The stressful part about buying an aircraft is trying to take a limited (job) income and try to fit $1 where you want $5 to be.
I'm a very big diesel fan, specifically in cars / trucks...I agree there is great opportunity for them in airplanes
I did a similar thing, what is my mission and what is the best plane. When I lived in Alaska, it was the Cessna 170. Now I am in the lower 48 and I went about the purchase decision for the flying I wanted to do down here, it came down to either a Bellanca Super Viking or a Mooney. I went with a 64 Mooney M20E. I have traveled all over the West and love the aircraft. I wanted the best bang for the buck and this plane is it!
Right on! I’ve heard the Bellanca flys awesome as well!
Get that extra inch of manifold pressure with the ram air. Have flown M20 E super 21's many times to Latin America
Rock on man! Gotta love the Mooney!
There is just something about the Mooney, and I'll tell you what it is...
First a comparison using cars: American cars a few decades ago, even when brand new, felt "loosie goosie," in that the steering was imprecise, requiring constant adjustments. But then you borrow your brother's MG Midget two-seater sports car, and it is a delight to drive, with its precise rack & pinion steering, and a compact, everything-functional feel.
Now, a comparison using airplanes: I grew up on Cessna singles. When you taxi them the steering feels imprecise, because there are springs between your rudder pedals and the nose wheel turning actuator. Plus, the taxiing Cessna feels "loosie goosie," from the fact that the gear struts are actually springs. Like an American car from long ago, the machine wallows a bit during taxi. And the visibility is limited, especially in the larger Cessna singles, by a big, intrusive dashboard, and, arguably, by the high wing.
The first time you sit in the cockpit of a Mooney, well, you'll know what I mean. It feels like a fighter! You can see! It is as if you are going to strap the plane on. Everything tight and precise. When I was in the USAF, in pilot training, a cross-country F-104 stopped in for fuel. The pilot let me "sit" his cockpit. Even though I was then accustomed to the sleek T-38, this F-104 took me back to the Mooney days, with its sports car feel.
In the Mooney I felt more "pilot" than practically anywhere else. I got to raise and lower the landing gear. I even got to operate a little gate that allows additional ram air to enter the engine and provide an extra bit of power.
I could have had fighters in the USAF, but I opted for the C-9 patient-hauling DC-9, and eventually went to the airlines (my dream) where I "managed crews" in big ole flight decks, and where I found that cockpit space is surprisingly unimportant.
After many planes, more than any other, ...
That Mooney made me feel like a real pilot!
Such a great comparison Richard, thank you for sharing. Beyond that, thank you for your service. It's men like you that make this country great!
Good choice! My first airplane was an M20C and now own an M20K. Love the very economical Mooney speed.
Thanks Paul! I’m loving mine so far!
Good video. I don't agree with your choice, but of course, I'm partial to the V-tails.
Thanks Chris, the V-tail is a beautiful bird! Hard to go wrong there!
This is a great video Cory. With my experience, the C-152 was never an option. I sat in one at the flight school and the yolk was obstructed by my leg because I'm tall. I Did 2 hours in a M20J before I started flight training and loved it. Since then all my 278 hrs has been in the C-172. Obviously I looked at them 1st now that I've decided to buy an airplane, but they are expensive. People think of them like they are Hondas with great resale value, and they are slow. I started looking at the Pipers becaue they were cheaper and I've always loved low wing design planes. I later found out that the 140 was comparable to the 152 and under powered. My focus then switched to something between 160-200 hp. The piper 160 and 180 was looking to be the best option, and I was not interested in the 235 model as it was not efficient. Warriors and Archers are scarce, and that's when I met a few people including you, who showed me that the Mooney M20C is is a plane that deserves to be looked at with its speed and efficiency. I cant wait to find the right one and start taking trips beyound the North East where I normally fly, and be apart of the Mooney family.
We will love having you, it’s a great group of folks from what I can tell!
LAKE LA-4-200 . Flying boat. Land in the water. Very Sweet to land in the Water and Taxi up a Boat Ramp. 10 GPH .
Hard to argue there. I will have an amphibious plane some day!
@@MyTimeToFly Live by the water and Retired . Been flying since I was 5 yrs old in a Bellanca 14-19. Keep up Flying. 14 yrs in N32DQ, Key West 6 hrs, 200'ASL. 62 Yrs Young. Enjoy Flying.
th-cam.com/video/5C4L6bCsVm4/w-d-xo.html
@@MyTimeToFly RjMorganB2 , please enjoy and Subscribe. Arrgh. Capt.Morgan. (retired}. BFT, SC
Mooneys have a reputation for Crow Hopping upon less-than-perfect Landings, don't they? The good news is that the Wing Spar is hell for strong thereby withstanding the oscillating impacts from Crow Hopping.
It’s all about speed control. If you’re a little fast, they can definitely hop. It’s certainly making me a better pilot!
Went with late model cessna 150M. Panel included gtn 650 - adsb in/out- mogas stc. So an ifr trainer burning premium autofuel with hourly operating cost of $22 to 24 dollars per hour. Whats not to love.
That’s awesome. Don’t see many 150s with a GTN 650 install!
Try to purchase what you need. Avionics upgrades will break your bank.
Yes sir! A wise man once told me to “let somebody else pay for the upgrade” buy the whole plane from them.
Great run down. I just bought my first plane last Aug and went with the Mooney M20K231. They are great looking planes, can’t get off the ramp without 2 or 3 look-backs at her 😍
Thanks David. You are correct, the Mooney is a beautiful plane: I hope that K treats you well!
It's a 4 seater sports car for the air, just pretend you're driving a Porsche, air cooled flat 6 to boot!
Awesome machines, even my flat 4 get 160 mph with ease!
I’m a fellow M20K owner. Totally awesome airplane.
Most definitely
There also is something to be said by the cockpit "feel." If you sit down in the pilot seat of a large Cessna, like a 210, 205, or 206, you notice that the dashboard panel goes way up in your face, esp. on the ground. The Mooney, OTOH, makes you feel like a fighter pilot. The controls are even more sensitive on the Mooney, and they are placed just right. Easy comparison: One is a steam locomotive; the other is an extension of you. It just FEELS good to pilot a Mooney.
I couldn’t agree more!
the flight school im at currently has 2 c152s, 2 150s, a 150 aerobat, 2 piper warriors and a c172. all the cessnas are ifr rated, and my favourite 152 (G-BNPY) has a different propeller which gives it a much higher cruise speed. It'll usually cruise easily at 100+ KIAS, had it clocking 140knts ground speed on the downwind leg of the circuit one day with a strong tailwind. the other c152 has been kitted out with a full g5 system and i think its an AERA 660 (this navigation is in both of the 152s). they are great planes to fly, okay a bit cramped inside, but at least the 152s do feel a lot more modern than the pipers in the fleet
Very cool, I did all of my training in a 150 then a 152. The 150 didn't even have an intercom. We literally yelled at each other to communicate!
Love the Mooney's. Such a pretty plane. One more good piece since your talking about first airplanes is safety. A plus for the 172 is that it has the lowest accident rate per 1000 hours of all the airplanes if I remember correctly. Clearly a reason why it's a staple at flight schools.
The 172 does have some redeeming qualities, it can take a beating for sure!
unfortunately we cannot really conclude anything about relative safety of many GA planes because they are flown by different pilots and used for different purposes. The fact that they are used so much for training could very well be the cause of a better safety record, not the result.
I think you’re right there with the training point. So many hours flown with instruction and in relatively safe situations (not flying across the country or in mountainous terrain)
How do you choose between these four? You don't. You buy a Piper Cherokee or some other Piper model, or you buy a Grumman Tiger or other similar model, or a Sonex or something. The a150, too small, bad range, not good max load and slow of course. And the 150s are too expensive really, for what you get. 172 is just OK across the board. Mooney, too expensive, Beechcraft too expensive. Pipers are just as good, even with IFR capability, as the Beechcraft. Piper Arrow, Cherokee 6 seater. If money is no object disregard everything I said.
Haha, I love how you closed that statement! But in all honesty, our Mooney was just as affordable as any Cherokee on the market. But we bought it a year or so ago, and the market has jumped dramatically since that time!
Nice to know that my thinking about airplane purchase is paralleled in other people. And as I write this, I think it's regrettable that there are not really any "new" planes that fit the criteria of "affordable" and efficient. And, probably never were. Airplanes are inherently expensive due to low production numbers and high criteria components and construction. Even the experimental category is not "cheap". This is one expensive hobby or interest, and will continue to be so. Good luck with your Mooney. By the way are you an A&P?
You’re right, it’s not for the faint of heart or slim wallet. Not an A&P yet, but will certainly be pursing it. For now, under the direct supervision of one!
My Time To Fly what would you say your all in per year is to run the Mooney. How much each year on maintenance alone
I wish I had a good sense for that, but unfortunately I’ve only owned the plane for 3 months or so. I’m happy to report back as I learn more!
Mooney as a first aircraft? Hmmmm.. a complex aircraft with low prop, low clearance and "not so easy" landing procedure hardly qualifies for the first airplane to be owned by the freshly minted private pilot. At that point, Cessna 172 is much more appropriate. For the reference, I am the owner of Mooney 20J, and previously M20C
I hear you, and don’t know that I implied they are great for fresh pilots. I’m only a 150 hour pilot, and it’s been great for me so far!
@@MyTimeToFly I bought mine when I had 80 and started flying it when I had 110 hrs. Being a chicken, I always flew it by the book and thus, I avoided any accidents, but I am supercautious which is not I can say for the rest of GA pilots. If you check Mooney market, you are extremely unlikely to find a Mooney that has never had a gear-up landing. It is very common, as common are prop strikes due to superlow clearance. In fact my insurance agent whose name is well known in GA world told me that it is not a gear-up landing that makes Mooney so unfavorable in the eyes of underwriter; after all each RG aircraft, be it Cessna, or Bonanza or Piper, sooner or later will be polishing runways with their own bellies because their pilots would forget to move the switch... it is low clearance and resulting prop strikes that puts Mooney on the black list. I don't know if you heard that but Mooney has a rule "third bounce is a prop strike" meaning that after the second bounce you have to go around because third bounce will send your Mooney to meet runway nose down. On the other hand, I managed to do 6 bounces when I was flying C152 or C172 as a student, without any adverse effect
You are very correct with the gear up comment, my Mooney had one back in the 80’s.
I looked at a Mooney and really liked the economy, speed and high-altitude capability. but the cabin was cramped and landings are tricky. When landing you've got to get your airspeed just right and round off at just the right height or you can float on ground effect until you run out of runway. So I checked the Bonanza v-tail, which is a more comfortable plane but decided it sacrificed to much aerodynamically for speed. Even Bonanza enthusiasts admit the plane isn't very stable in roll, yaw and pitch, is prone to Dutch roll, and many are lost in bad weather (Bonanza people tend to blame the pilots for this). I bought a Navion A, which is built very sturdy, has a roomy cabin with a back seat that's comfortable for adults, has very stable flight characteristics, and with full flaps touches down softly at only 50 mph. It isn't as fast as the Bonanza but I don't care, it flies like a dream! I wish the Navion would go back into production!
Very cool! I haven’t had the chance to fly in a Navion, but hope to some day!
I rented a Diamond two seater, the DA20, to get my license. I loved it, but good ones are very expensive to buy. They cannot be made IFR, and I wanted an instrument rating. I rented a Cessna 172 for a good while. I liked it, but good ones that are IFR are pricey, and I did not want a loan. I also rented a Cherokee 140, but it did not perform well in climb. To avoid getting a loan, I paid cash for a Cessna 150 with a classic 6-pack of instruments and got my instrument rating in it. The Cessna 150/152 club is very active, and a great community. Surprisingly, it is filled with retired professional pilots. Many pros spring for a Cessna 150 for personal flying. My wife told me she will never fly with me. I'm allowed to fly with only one of our kids at a time. Therefore, until now, the Cessna 150 has been good enough. However, now that the kids are almost adults, I'm running into a problem with weight and balance in the Cessna 150. Two adults with full fuel is over max weight, and it climbs poorly on warm days while loaded heavily. I'm thinking about my plane number two. Must be affordable, no loans for me, IFR, and able to climb well with two adults and enough fuel, even on warm days. I also want to get my Commercial license. It is possible to do that in a Cessna 150, but I would have to install a glass panel and an autopilot. I'm considering my options.
Seems well thought through! I’d put the Mooney on your short list!
Cessna p210n. Speed, capacity, can outclimb the weather.
Business trips. Enough money.
propeller control.
Radar
Handles all but the inop strips. Even some that are
No doubt they are a capable platform!
So, I learned to fly in the Navy. While stationed abroad, I'd join the Navy Flying Club that was on base, if they had one. Depending on where I was at, we had all sorts of aircraft, from Cessna 150's, 152's, 172's, 182's, Piper Cherokees, Beech Barons and T-34's that active duty and family could rent. After I left the Navy, when I decided to look for an aircraft to own, I looked at many flavors and settled on a '77 Grumman Tiger AA-5B. Long story short, I wanted something that was simple to fly, economical to maintain, had great performance and range, was sporty and was easy to learn to fly when my kids decided to get into aviation. I've owned that same aircraft for several years now and, since then, my son has used it to get his private, instrument, commercial and CFI. We both fly it together for training as well as pleasure, taking it to Oshkosh whenever we can. My wife and daughters have no interest in flying GA, so the Tiger is a perfect fit for our needs. We've just completed a full panel upgrade, replacing the plastic panel with a treated aluminum, power coated panel, replaced the original A/I and HSI with two Garmin G5's, added a Garmin USB power port, and moved some instruments around to make it more user friendly. It makes instrument flying a dream. My only regret is not spending the cash on an autopilot, but that will come later.
The Tiger is fast.. 140 KTAS at 8,500' MSL burning 8.5 to 9.5 GPH at 2600 RPM running 50 ROP. She holds 51 gallons usable fuel. We are based in Broomfield, Colorado (KBJC), just 25 miles north of Denver, so dealing with density altitude is always a challenge, but the Tiger does well with the Lycoming O-360 pumping out 180 HP. We just fly with tabs full to reduce the takeoff weight. That still gives us 38 gallons of usable fuel for a cross country. The Tiger is fun to fly.. very maneuverable and light on the controls. Like your Mooney, it loves to fly, so slowing it down on approach and landing can be a challenge for the new pilot. But, if you fly by the numbers and fine tune your technique, it's a breeze to make those landings a greaser. The large rudder is an excellent tool for handling crosswinds as there is plenty of rudder authority. The best feature of all is the sliding canopy. I just love that fighter pilot feeling it gives you... that, and it's great for those hot days as we can open it up about 1/4 way to cool things down. We just have to keep the airspeed under 113 KIAS per the POH.
Congrats on your choice of the Mooney and have fun with it. Looking forward to many more videos from you. Here's a link so some videos of past flights we've made...
th-cam.com/channels/Yp1lsafqwcgdhMwwGx9ULA.htmlvideos
So awesome, what an amazing bond I’m sure you and your son have flying! I know many people who absolutely love the Grumman! I appreciate you watching!!!
My first plane was a 77 Grumman Cheetah. I sold it to buy a Mooney. Although I loved the Mooney, I wish I had never sold the Cheetah.
Brad
I always hated working on Mooneys' avionics. That sloped windshield makes for a tight fit when you're trying to reach behind the panel from the top. I can only imagine that they'd be a dream to own and fly, though. Every owner I spoke to had 0 regrets.
Thanks for the real world feedback. I've always hesitated to move to the 1 piece windshield due to the added complexity of getting to the avionics. For now, my avionics are easily accessible through 2 access panels just in front of the windshield.
The Mooney is a great choice, I opted for a Comanche for the larger cabin and weight/balance advantage
I do love the Comanche as well. Had we found the right Comanche, I would have bought it!
172 because I fly by myself most of the time and maintenance cost
Bom dia Donizete Bragança Paulista sp Brasil
Good morning! Thanks for being here!
I would have encouraged you go with a C182, unlike the 172, the 182 is a true 4 place airplane. Reasonable to maintain with great resale value. Stable like a 172 but with a 4 place engine. Having grown up with Bonanza's, there is truly no greater airplane that is if your flush with cash. You should also consider some of the pipers, I have many an hour in a Bonanza, and they are truly a joy to fly but God the cost to maintain one. Constant speed prop, flower flaps, retractable landing gear with fully enclosed gear doors, ours has the retractable step. None of these things are cheap. If your concerned about fuel burn per hour you really can't afford a complex single. I can buy a piper wing for what a Bonanza aeleron costs. Plus finding a good beech mechanic is another story.
Plus the 182 is going to behave like a high performance 172.
All good points. I think what stopped is from going 182 was the purchase price. It was double the Mooney (if equipped roughly the same)
@@MyTimeToFly I know, several factors contribute to that. I think popularity due to ease of flying for a entry level pilot. Basically you've got a 172 magnum. Although it four seats anything much above sea level and a 172 is a good two person airplane. I can't name the number of accidents I've seem with high density altitude and 172's that the owner tried to fly with four people because it had four seats. I've told more than one 172 pilot if your going to fly the western mountain states take the back seats out! Their dead weight, you can't use them safely so why pack the weight. Often if it were just two people I would pull the back seat out of my V35K which also allowed me to keep my center of gravity as far forward as possible plush was 44lbs lighter.
Plus for a low time pilot things don't get ahead of you so quickly with a 182. You get into true IMC, get sloppy on the on
Instruments, leave the power on and you can quickly be approaching 200 kias. One thing my father who was a 35 year ATP passed on. If you find yourself in turbulent IMC slowly pull the nose up, drop the gear, bring in 2300rpm open your cowel flaps and you can quit worrying about your airspeed running away, I would imagine this holds true for a Mooney
Again great points and very practical advice regarding the seats. The Mooney certainly can be configured such that the airspeed won’t get away from you. But, if you’re not proactive about getting the gear down...it can and will get fast!
@@MyTimeToFly my father was a 36,000 ATP, who lived to fly and put an airplane on more that sat in it. In his early years when he wasn't flying the DC3 for West Coast Airlines he was flying charter and demo/sales for the Beechcraft dealer in Boise. My God that man could fly a Bonanza well, but what stands out is a couple pointers he gave me. First watch your CG as the V Tails could easily be loaded into an aft CG condition that with full tanks you don't even notice until several hours into the flight you find you keep having to add just a hair of nose down trim every once in a while, until your configuring for landing and you find yourself having real difficulty maintaining trim and having to add more power just to keep the nose down, and then it wants to flair about 100ft agl.
The other observation mentioned earlier is lowering the gear. He said if you find yourself in severe turbulence, especially IMC lower the gear, even if your way above VNE lower the gear now granted as he said you may tear off a gear door, but it might keep you from getting killed. Another was if you find yourself in mountainous terrain and maybe being forced to remain VFR because of conditions and the canyons are getting narrower, pull the power back, lower the gear, lower 15-20 degrees of flaps, open the cowel flaps, and bring your power up to about 70-75% and you'll be able to fly at 75-90kias all day long make tight high bank turns and not loose it or stall because your now 20-30kias above stall.
Just some useful information. Also he ALWAYS pulled out the pilots hand book and checked our density altitude and what our take off run should be given our weight and altitude.
Happy Skies
Just came across this video!! That’s me in the thumbnail flying N757UD at a Young Eagle event!!!
That’s awesome man! Thank you for taking part in such a worth cause.
I'm 11 hours into getting my ticket and bought a house in an air park, so I guess you can say it's gonna happen. From my research you can fly a M20C @ C150 speeds and almost have C150 fuel burn. Most ppl don't seem to know that and recommend a Bo or a Commanche. Of course, that C150 isn't ever going to cruise @ 150kts. Mooney and AA5 is on my short list. There are MANY RVs in my airpark though. I'm debating on Mooney and having to find an A&P or RV and doing the work in my hangar next to my house. Downside there is having to fly commercial when we take the 7 yo. I always wanted a Long Eze, but getting that in and out of our 2200' strip would be sketchy. I've been watching your videos for a few months now. Keep it up.
Thanks a lot for being here, and congrats on the hangar house. Sounds like you’ve got a fair number of decisions to make. My only real recommendation...be patient. It’s not easy, but the perfect deal will present itself when the time is right!
So many thing about this just dont make sense. Why even include a 150 since you know your mission is to carry 4 people. Why even include 172 since your primary mission is cross country. Just a waste of time. So all the negatives you mentioned about the bonanzas apply to that same model mooney but you disregarded them for the mooney. There are fan boys on both the mooney side and the bonanza side but lets be honest that both models and years you mention of them have exactly the same negatives but u like the mooney better. A C model is just as outdated on average as an early bonanza. This would of been a more credible video if you just said. I looked at both an old mooney and an old bonanza and although they both have old panels, old engines, i liked the mooney better. But instead you say the bonanzas are outdated then you say you bought a C model mooney which in general is just as outdated. Plus the elephant in the room that mooney is out of business and bonanza is still the longest production aircraft in the world. That in itself would be a no brainer for me.
To be clear, I am not and never was a “Mooney Fanboy”. The Bonanza does I’m fact have engine packages not found in a Mooney (E-225), which are more costly to rebuild and have lower TBOs. Also, it was my experience that many fewer Bonanzas in my price range had decently upgraded panels. These are just observations through my experience, not the gospel.
Mooney is back in business again.
Good news!
I subbed. I want to fly, but- I’m a nobody. I haven’t taken one class. Thanks for your motivating videos- I want to be in your club.
Thanks for being here Paul! I have no doubt the community would welcome you with open arms. Your best bet is to find a local airport and just start hanging around a little. Listen, observe, and ad find a way to start getting involved!
We have had our Mooney J model for almost 20 years and have taken it to every state in the lower 48. It is indeed a magic carpet!
So awesome Daniel, I've only been over 5 states or so...I have to check more off the list.
What do you think of the Piper Cherokee 6 300? I think this would have made a great plane for you and your family.
The Cherokee 6 is a great airplane, no doubt about that. I just don't love the idea of the fuel burn of that big ole' 540 CI engine.
The model im looking at is the Gruman American because it has over 1000lbs useful load and its slightly faster than the Cessnas with longer range
I hear they are a blast to fly as well, nimble and smooth!
I own the first BE35 that you showed N9606K. We took the same journey a few years ago C152, C172, PA28, M20J, BE35 took a hard look at all. C152 to small. C172 To expensive, PA28 to slow, M20J to small and they all leaked fuel, BE35 Fast and roomy but not cheap. Nice video.
The struggle is real! Thanks so much man!
The actual answer is "whatever you can afford" so for most of us that's an ercoupe.
And as a bonus you can fly cabriolet style :)
I’d love an Ercoupe. Simple flying!
That is pretty much the same search that brought me to my M20E. Nice video, thanks for sharing!
Thanks so much TJ.
Love the Mooney C. Just wish it had two doors. (Why is everything redundant on an airplane except for the emergency exit?)
TRUTH!!! It’s unfortunate so many low wing planes only have 1 door.
V-tail Bonanzas have corrosion problems on the magnesium ruddervators with a MSB requiring replacement and few affordable options to comply. Another gotcha on the V-tail is you can take off in CG limits, but land with CG too far back after fuel burn with 4 full size adults. Have operated 3 Beech aircraft including V tail, they are expensive to maintain and operate but handle great in the air. Flying a Mooney 201 now, in my opinion the best Mooney in all payload and performance, operating costs and design trade offs, but will not carry 4 adults with more than 3 hours of fuel. Check for fuel tank seepage, water damage inside cabin structure on pilot side, engine mounts in prebuy but overall not to many issues on preowned Mooneys.
I certainly haven’t regretted the Mooney purchase! Thanks for your insight!
Hi. Why you never thought about the 206 station air? Your opinions please. Thanks!
The 206 is a great airplane, especially if you’re looking to haul a lot of weight. The downside being a big increase in fuel turn over my Mooney. For me, I simply didn’t need to haul the weight, and the entry cost is much too high.
I just about fell out of my chair when I saw N4061N in this video. I just bought it from a friend a month ago. It's currently at KDVT. Now I just need a CFI LOL! Thanks for the informative videos sir!
That’s awesome man! Congrats on the new bird!
I’ve been looking at 177RG. My uncle says they are awesome, he is an AME who owns a maintenance shop/FBO
The do seem like very nice airplanes, just a bit hard to find. I’m sure you’re experiencing that! Good luck Ryan!
Thanks for the video. I am right where you were. 172, 182, Beech 35, or Mooney. The only thing not on your pros and cons was insurance cost. The beech is almost triple. compared to the other three.
Wow, your right...that is a miss. My Mooney insurance certainly isn’t cheap! That is a big plus for the non-retracts.
I’ve owned a 150, 172 and a Mooney. Mooney was my favorite. Took trips from Oklahoma to Oshkosh, Orlando and flew Angel Flights to Houston. No longer flying but attend OSH annually and will forever be a Mooniac!
They do suck you in for sure!
I have had my eyes open for the really good 77 78 Piper Arrow 3 Turbo FB with mods. It has the speed (160knts). It can get above the weather (20,000ft). It has a good useful load (1000lb). With a efficient fuel burn (10/12 GPH) and a price under $100k (updated) seem to make it the right aircraft for my mission flying 500 to 1000 mile trips into cities and Villages around Alaska. Thoughts?
Seems like a good option, although I can’t say I know too much about the Arrow. Perhaps a Mooney M20J should be on the list, although you won’t quite get to 20k feet.
I bought a Mooney. For the speed, economy, and versatility you can’t beat the Mooney!
So true!!!
This was the first video I've ever seen on your channel. I just completed watching it just now. I already subscribed and rated it thumbs up. I liked your criteria analyzing and summaries of each plane. I'm a planning to purchase one this and begin lessons in it, so it won't have to be my forever plane, but maybe it will be. I absolutely loved how you fit the title of your channel into the last line of your video presentation. That moved me. Great work!
Thanks a bunch Danny! I really appreciate you being here.
Kind of surprised not to see a Piper Archer on your short list. Similar with the 180 hp engine, seating, 10gph fuel rate, available parts, knowledgeable repair folks, etc. I’ve been looking at planes for a similar missions as yours, considered some of the same planes, and the Archers seem like one of the best options out there. Proof, I think, is they are in such high demand and so can be hard to find. But I think with some patience and research they are obtainable and an excellent option.
The Archer was definitely discussed once or twice, but likely due to limited supply we never found one that fit our mission just right...for the right price.
I bought a Mooney back in the early 80's. A M20A, wood wing. Faster than the metal wing with the same engine. Loved it. I could economy cruise at about 150mph and about 5 to 6 gallons per hour. Better than my car and much faster. 170 mph at about 10 gph.
Very cool! I’d love to get a ride in an A someday! Thanks for watching!
In short ... 172, slow and boring; 152, reeeealy boring; Beech, expensive!; Mooney, fast but quirky: Piper Warrior, Archer, Arrow and T-Arrow, good compromise.
My dad owned a Mooney, he loved it. My Pipers, how'd you guess? I loved them.
;)
S
Nice, hard to argue with your analysis (although I wouldn’t say Mooney is too quirky). Thanks for watching!
@@MyTimeToFly Oh ... well ... maybe it was my dad who was quirky ... or both ...
Hahaha, nice! I’ll tell you what, sitting right seat to my dad made me nervous...regardless of what we were flying. (Sorry dad)
Congrats on finding "your" plane. Thanks for posting some of the factors that weighed on your decision. Do you find the absence of a pilot side door to be an inconvenience? I find having to crawl in to over the right seat to start the preflight, then crawl out again, then crawl in again before my passenger boards to be a major pain. Considering the number of GA aircraft without pilot side doors, I'm obviously in the minority with regard to this issue.
Thanks, it certainly doesn’t add to convenience..but I have found some work arounds. For instance, I keep the small pilot side window open, and reach back in to shit off the lights and such after I check them in preflight. I would have loved to have a pilot side door, but it was low on the priority list.
I once griped about this regarding a Debonair, and the owner/instructor I was renting it from asked if I would rather have the passengers get in last, or have them getting in first, and be sitting there bored while I did the preflight, and messing with the controls and instruments. I had to concede the point.
Too funny, you know they’ll push buttons if given the chance!
Mooneys porpoise like crazy.... A fellow pilot I knew owned a 69 E class. When he bought it, it had some corrosion and it hadn’t flown in over twenty years. With a lot of TLC we got the airplane airworthy. Even though it was the ugliest plane on the ramp, it was beautiful in the air. Unfortunately a few years ago he did a gear up landing and totaled it. I sure miss that plane.
Bummer about the gear up. I can't say that I agree with "porpoise like crazy". You certainly need to be on your airspeed, and understand how weight changes speeds over the numbers, but if you can manage those factors I feel mine lands quite easy.
@My Time To Fly I stand corrected; if you don't watch your speed, it will porpoise on you.
That I can agree with!
Started looking at the 172 for obvious reasons, first being it is the plane I have been training in. But after looking at 172 prices it was nuts. Switched scope of plane search to the 182. You can get a much higher performing and higher useful load plane for about the same price (ish).
Your statement about the 182 is true, especially in the useful load arena. I will say though, I can cruise at the same speed or faster in my Mooney burning 3-5 gallons less per hour.
@@MyTimeToFly I would love a Mooney for all the reasons you have explained. Tough plane to beat, however, our mission includes flying into backcountry strips, STOL capability, and the ability to carry mtn bikes and or camping gear. 182 will work for this mission, sadly, burning more fuel in the process.
You got that right. The 182 sounds like the perfect plane for your mission!!!
I really appreciate the fact that you added the pros and the cons. I am trying to pursue my instrument as well as having aircraft that will get me places after I get my instrument. I am currently looking at Cardinals and Piper arrow three turbo.
Those seem to be good options as well. I settled on the Mooney as the speed/cost ratio is unbeatable (in my opinion).
I prefer a high wing. I fly to enjoy the view and less interested in getting there fast.
I totally understand your “view” hahaha. I’m still quite pleased with my low wing visibility, but speed is the more important variable for me.
Bonanza as a first plane? Pretty pricey. And no PA28?
These were my 4 leading candidates, can be different for anybody. I’m just not a Piper guy, the reason the PA-28 wasn’t on my list.
Great video! I’m currently trying to figure what I want for my first plane. There are so many things to consider and and no one plane does everything. My biggest requirements are useful load and overall operating costs. I’m leaning towards an Archer or possibly even a Dakota , but there are are many other viable options out there too.
So true! Cherokee 6?
My Time To Fly that’s definitely one I’ve been considering. There’s certainly plenty of useful load and room to grow into. I’m a huge Mooney fan because of the speed and fuel economy, but I’d be sacrificing space and useful load for any in my price range.
I would like a Piper. My second choice would be an aero commander 114B, a fast wide cabined 4 place plane, single engine of course. Mooneys are awesome little planes. That forward angled rudder is lie no other!
In don’t know much about the commander’s, I’ve seen a few for sale and do like their design.
Aero commander is a twin engine chief.
Its a Rockwell Commander. The 112, 114, 114T and 115T are all good.
I went through the same process a year ago and came to the same conclusion. I wanted something faster than a 172, reasonably efficient, a decent load carrying capability, and a good value. I really had my heart set on a V-tail Bonanza just because I think it’s the coolest looking GA plane ever made. Mooneys weren’t really on my list because I had no experience with them whatsoever and I had heard that they were really tight inside. I got to get up close to one while I was on the road with my job. Not as tight as everyone complains about. I happened to find one close to me for sale and thought I would go check it out on a whim. It was a beautiful M20J that had been loved on by it’s two airline pilot owners with one of them being in A&P with IA. He had gone through through it spinner to tail taking care of every issue. When I started talking to him about performance and efficiency, it just started ticking off every box that I had set. I finally realized that my mission would be 99% flying by myself and that I wanted something fast and efficient. There was no choice left. This Mooney was it! The acquisition cost was tens of thousands of dollars less than any other comparable plane of the same vintage. The reputation it has, as far as it being difficult to land, is absolute hogwash for anyone who knows how to fly a plane by the numbers. The one problem I had… I had to learn how to get it to slow down. Not a bad problem to have! I was able to complete a bucket list item with my Mooney. I flew from central Ohio to Tampa, Florida NONSTOP and got to land at the airport I taught at in my own airplane! PRICELESS!
Wow, what an awesome story! Thank you for sharing, and I’m glad you found the Mooney!
From where in the Oh did you leave from and how long was the flight?
I have found that most people who complain about Mooney's being "cramped" have never actually been in one. Unless you are trying to stuff 4 NBA players into a short-body, there's is more than adequate room. I think people see them sitting on the ground with the pilot seats fully aft against the bench and start jumping to conclusions. I fly my C with my seat fully forward for takeoff/landing, and one notch back from that in cruise - my rear passenger has *more* foot space than i do in both of those positions.
As far as it being difficult to land.... I met my Mooney at W75 with its 2,000' runway. Landed there several times in my first few days of ownership, and never once needed more than half the runway to stop. Like you said - fly it by the numbers and everything is fine.
I definitely agree with your thoughts here. I’m every bit as comfortable in the Mooney as I compare it to all other small planes I’ve flown.
Chicken Kriket's I left from OSU and flew to ZPH (cheap gas) before a quick hop to TPF. Flight time was just a little under 5 hours and I burned about 42 gallons.
You can't go wrong with the Mooney. Even in the flight simulation world, that speed Carries over. In my acclaim I can get up 21,000 feet with oxygen and get 230 knots out of it with a tailwind and sip fuel. Going the other way on the other hand maybe 180 indicated if lucky. But all in all it is a great aircraft. If I had the Financial Resources, to get my license and fly, there's no question the Mooney would be on the top of my priority list. As turboprops go, my still favorite turboprop of all time is the Mitsubishi Mu2. It has loads of sexy written all over it, but that's just me. Cheers Dion YT: #dionm01
Good stuff, I also like the Mu2 but I’d have to say my turboprop of choice would likely be the Epic!
@@MyTimeToFly Agreed Epic is awesome as well. TBM 900 thru 940 are cool. PC12 is very nice well. lol I could go on and on. Cheers Dion
Own a 1973 Cessna 172M. Have had it for almost 3 years and it’s been great. Did the interior and installed an engine monitor among other things. Amazing experience. I want to get my instrument rating and then step up to a Mooney M20J because it’s fast, low maintenance and low operating cost. Prefer a cosmetically in bad shape airplane that O can fix, but airframe and engine in excellent condition. Expect to do the switch in Q1 2021. Remember, the Bonanza flights fast because of the engine, Mooneys because of its wings! Thanks Roy Lopresti!
Awesome man, glad your loving the 172! What engine monitor did you put in? I couldn’t have said it better regarding the speed comparison between the BO and the Mooney!
My Time To Fly indeed! Good job. I put the EDM830. Greta engone monitor👌🏽
I’ll certainly be looking for something for the Mooney!
The two planes I’ve considered mostly have been a Piper Cherokee 6/Saratoga, and a Mooney M20. I like the Cherokee for its useful load and intimidating size (ramp appeal at least to me) but I also love the speed and range of the Mooney plus the retractable gear makes me smile
So true man. As my kids get older, I’ll likely have to move to a Cherokee 6. But for now, a sexy sleek retract it is!
3 years old and still current... I wenn with the Beech Debonair. I fehlt, ist is the Beat mix for what I need. The poor man‘s Bonanza is technically a Bonanza. Just cheaper
1/4” speed handle, never runs out of battery.
Need one to take all the Mooney screws out.
I have only rented, but haven't flown in years due to high cost. You can't go wrong with a Cessna 172, albeit they are slow. They are very stable and more forgiving of pilot error than comparable low winger
There is certainly nothing wrong with a Cessna. I mostly encourage pilots to get out and fly many types prior to passing judgment or picking a favorite.
A super Viking Bc you get a lot of air plane for the money
I do agree, I hear they fly beautifully!
Congratulations from a fellow Mooniac, met Don Maxwell last week, a fantastic guy!
Dave, I would suggest flying each and picking. Plane owners are Ego Maniacs about their planes. Besides Mooneys are the best! Great economy fast strong good payload and by the way my girl 1978 M20 J does not have bladders and never been resealed. She’s hangered her entire life and I don’t land on grass. Good luck. ps The Comanche 250/260 was my second choice.
You got that right...we all think we have the best plane ever made!!! In all seriousness, I would love a J!
I am looking to get my first airplane, almost done with my private license. Did you look into experimental planes? The more I research the more they make sense. They are fast, economical, cost soo much less to maintain, great instruments, etc.
I do love the concept of an experimental, but at some point during my search I decided I needed 4 seats. Finding a cost effective 4 seat experimental is pretty tough!
It’s unfortunate you only looked at “older” Bonanzas, E-series, pre-60s. I trained on Cessnas & bought a C172, flown it 10 years, but moved up to a 1966 Bonanza, 285hp injected engine and upgraded to modern avionics 3 times now over, the last 24 years, I’m still in love, what a Great all around airplane. 👌
But, Mooneys are good airplanes also. 😊
I want a 208, but I don’t even have my ppl yet….
A 208 would be amazing, I actually hear they are fairly straightforward to fly as well! Gotta dream big!
Cessna 180 because it looks comfortable
The 180 is an awesome machine!
My friend who has a Mooney loves to fly my Cessna 210. 😆
I'd love too as well! I'd start landing on grass strips again! It doesn't mean I don't love the Mooney, just that I love all airplanes!
@@MyTimeToFly Me too. For the Love of Aviation. And I won't stop flying. 🙂
Just bought a higher engine time 1968 M20C, only had it for two months and love it, I would say don’t buy 172 because they are now terribly expensive.
Don’t buy a 150 because it’s a lame definition of flying, unless it’s a 150/150 or you just don’t care to have fun, go anywhere or just want to build lots of time for getting to commercial. they are very sluggish!
Know nothing about bonanza
The Mooney is the best as of now, you can get a very capable fast plane for the same price range as a 172 maybe better
The high time Mooney is really great if your buying outright because it allows you to get into it cheaper or should I say slower without killer insurance and interest
Thank you for sharing Manuel! I have e to agree, there is a ton of value for money in the older Mooney! I love mine!!!
Beechcraft Bonanza
‘‘Tis a nice bird!
I’m looking for my first plane. I’ve heard to buy your 2nd plane first. My mission will be 80% solo/CFI proficiency flying, and 20% sightseeing/XC with my spouse and 2 kids.
I kinda wanted to skip the 150/152, but would consider one to build time.
I think the complex fuel system of the Bonanza would rule them out.
So, I’ve been looking at Piper 140/160 Cherokees, 180 Comanches, Cessna 172, or a Piper Tri-Pacer. Why is the 172 seemingly so much more expensive than the Pipers? I don’t really see a lot of Mooneys for sale. Thanks for the video
Right on man. I don't really know why 172s are so much more money, perhaps the Pipers recent wing ADs have lowered the values. I'm very happy with my Mooney as my first plane, but I do agree they can be hard to find.
I learned to fly in a diamond DA40. It is a great airplane for cross country. Burning 9 gallons per hour can easily get you 140 knots. But because of high maintaince cost (most say is because of tight engine compartment and expensive parts) and sky high purchase cost, I dropped it off of my watch list.
Totally understandable, all newer planes are outrageously priced...I guess that’s why we keep the vintage ones alive!
Love to put it on my list if it weren't so expensive to buy and maintain, right on there! But flying is an good itch that most of us keep loving to scratch.
You’ve got that right! It’s hard to stop!
Looking at Maules & Cessna 180s for backcountry flying, but nothing beats the Sexy Bonanzas. I have logged more time in Bonanzas & Barons than all my tailwheel time put together.
Enjoyed your video
Thanks a bunch Stephen. As my family grows, I could definitely see moving into a Bonanza (if my wallet can afford it)
You mentioned you looked at the Beech Sierra, what made you cross it off your list? Apart from speed obviously as the Mooney is at least 10-20 knots faster. I'm considering the Sierra as it looks like a great balance between building time and have great performance with a comparable fuel burn to the Mooney.
Sorry for the slow reply, the decision away from the Sierra was mostly due to cost. Our Mooney ended up $10k - $20k less than a comparable Sierra