That's an interesting perspective. I think the only new thing here is the "online" component. Perhaps there has been disposable musical content ever since there has been music.
That's an amazing thing to ponder..... What an insight..... May That's the reason why old recordings are Timeless. I am totally in Awe of today's SOUND DESIGNING but out of so much of HI GRADE STUFF very FEW has that ESSENCE OF TIMELESSNESS...
I get what he is saying and I agree to a certain degree, BUT..."no music worthwhile listening to since 2000"/2005"!?...there is so much music being made and A LOT of GREAT sounding stuff. Just get out from under the rock and open the mind (and ears), dude :) (and this being said, I totally respect the work that mr. Elliot Scheiner has contributed with during the years - some of the best sounding stuff - thank you a lot for that!!).
The power of the DAW can be used for evil like the analogue days never knew. "See I gotta use the Pultec plug in on the reverb return on the snare.....bla bla bla...."
There is nothing wrong is modern mixing and plugins and stuffs. Over-engineering and terrible musicians killed it, that's why all of these product has been made... it's for these people.
You make four really good points! No one hums an amazing-sounding guitar chord. They're happy to hum a good-sounding vocal with an amazing melody! Better writing makes better productions makes better recordings makes better mixes makes better masters makes better records.
Still a heavily processed record.. And thats part of what makes it sound good. The drums for instance doesnt sound at all like a drumkit would sound live in a room.
Hot take.. Sadly i really dont like it :/ its probably «good», but i just think the songs are super cheesy and i dont connect with the lyrics at all, and the mixing is so bad taste.. so compressed and flat, thats just me tho. It may remind you of 70s production, but the mixing is very modern pop it sounds like to me. Its kinda «faux vintage» All the asthetics and parts are pretty vintagey tho, but i just cant stand the sonics or mixing of that record
It is the amount of reverb that kills modern music for me. It is like they have painted, in some cases, a fantastic and amazing picture then smudged all the details in to f***ed up mess :(
"back in my day" usually a substitute for "my tastes haven't changed, but culture has moved on." There's tons of good records made since 99. What a weird thing to say. Disparage a 1/4 century of music, casually. OK. The Strokes Spoon Anderson .Paak Lorde Louis Cole Mac Miller Bamboleo Frank Ocean SZA The Shins The Roots The entire New Orleans brass band scene Arctic Monkeys on and on ... so much good music. Weird
I would think this is also a matter of taste. I am willing to be very unpopular here by saying that personally and to my ears the Beatles recordings sound like shit. In the context of their time they definitely sound great. But today we are used to sound that fills out the soundstage a lot more, plus we have HiFi sound systems that allow for this bigger sound opposed to systems in the 60s or 70s. Same with pictures. We have gotten used to lots of post production. Is that a bad thing? Where do you draw the line? I think that is more of a personal decision of taste, not what is 'better'.
The Beatles' mixes were definitely not the best of what could be done in the 1960s - just about anything recorded by Bill Porter at RCA is the best. "Elvis Is Back" for one. Beatles stuff sounded thin.
I understand where he's coming from, but his message is basically "everything modern bad" and I just can't subscribe to such a view. I would find his critique more compelling if he talked about things done right too. And acknowledged that in his day there were many badly done records as well, we just don't remember them. Instead, today we remember the good stuff. And saying that there's nothing good since 2000s is, unfortunately the proverbial old man yells at cloud stuff.
I don't like this argument. 99% of music at any given time is a little bit shit, you can't sit there and cherry pick you have to give some evidence aside from the fact that some old music is good
OK, honestly, it's getting a bit tired to hold The Beatles as the pinnacle of musical genius. I mean, go play "Please Please Me" and tell me this is the greatest songwriting in history. It's ... fine. It's pop. For half their career, they were a 60s boy-band. Sure, they later wrote Strawberry Fields Forever, and at the time it set a new bar for production. But am I to believe that we haven't done anything since that is equally innovative? Eeehhhmmm..... Also, "these kids today, they just sit in their room and download VSTs of all this classic equipment, and don't understand what any of it is or what it does..." Uh, well, yeah... You were born knowing what an 1176 is and how to use it, I presume? No, at some point in their life, every legendary engineer sat down in front of a mixing board and randomly turned knobs to see what effect it had. That's called "learning" and is pretty much a mandatory part of development.
Agreed. If you have a good ear and sense for sound you don't need to know about any of that, how the algorithm works where it came from. "It should sound like music" - exactly.
Whether or not you like The Beatles' music doesn't matter. For better or worse, they pioneered modern studio recording. Whether or not you like Apple, they invented modern smart phones. Whether or not you like Pro-Tools, they made computer based recording a reality. Whether or not you like Jay Leno's comedy, he was the highest rated late night talk show for decades and is revered by comics.
@@wtwn That's all fine, but when the only reference point anyone has for "music that is good" is The Beatles, it makes me really wonder if 1) they have any credibility as someone who appreciates music, in general; and/or 2) they have any credibility as someone who has opinions of their own, rather than just regurgitating "the safe choice" that nobody will disagree with because.. it's... you know... tHe BeAtLeS.
@@michaelsteven1090 If you read carefully, you'll notice I never question their credentials as an engineer. That's not what I'm saying at atll. I'm just saying, if you ask someone, "what is good music?" and their answer is, "The Beatles", I sure hope there's more to that list. Not because The Beatles weren't good, or visionary, or pioneers, or whatever. Just that there's somebody out there, right now, singing something into an iPhone mic that could've set the world on fire if you took it back to the 1960s and played it for a million people. And there have been lots and LOTS of people in between that are equally talented. Holding up The Beatles as a placeholder for all that is good in music strikes me as a tad lazy, and shows a lack of creativity, IMO. _So much great music_ has come since, that, if you have any appreciation for music at all whatsoever, you've GOT to be able to name at least a few. I totally recognize this is a nit-pick. It absolutely is. Nonetheless, it's bothersome. It's like summing up all rock music with "Nirvana" or all classical with "Mozart" -- other stuff exists, and if all you can name is the obvious one, like... do you even music, bro? ;-)
Beatles used a ton of effects, and tape tricks, as we know, so he is complaining about the same thing he enjoys. Old man shouts at the sky.. talented or not. He's just starting to sound old.
If you think good music stopped 20 years ago, you stopped LOOKING for good music 20 years ago, period 🤷♂ smh Most of my idols are the same (rapidly dying) ages as most every other musician's idols, but I'm *sssSOoo* sick of this idea that we have to give every old music industry legend a pass for every opinion they might have just bc they're old music industry legends. Any of this "there's-no-good-music-anymore" bullshit is exactly that, and it immediately betrays subjective bias and objective ignorance. Good music may well be harder to find than it used to be. I'll have THAT discussion all day! But it's absolutely still out there. And more than just that 1% implied here 🙄😖 Dig deeper or be willing to acknowledge you've lost your battle with nostalgia.
I listen to good nowadays music I'm like wow this is amazing. Then I won't play it again. Maybe because music is coming out everyday, everyone and they momma plays music.
@@shan5445 Yeah, I hear ya. At risk of leaning too heavily on a similar mindset to what I'm arguing against above, I think what you're describing (and I've also experienced myself) probably points to the issues more and more of us are having with attention span 😬
The worst thing that’s happened to modern music is treating it like disposable online content.
A transaction and move on.
That's an interesting perspective. I think the only new thing here is the "online" component. Perhaps there has been disposable musical content ever since there has been music.
Real players, real emotion, real music, nothing better.
That's an amazing thing to ponder.....
What an insight.....
May That's the reason why old recordings are Timeless.
I am totally in Awe of today's SOUND DESIGNING but out of so much of HI GRADE STUFF very FEW has that ESSENCE OF TIMELESSNESS...
The industry needs more Elliot Scheiner! Up to 11!!
This guy is AMAZING. People stick hundreds of effects in every track because they don't understand the mix.
I love how he causally says "When I did Moondance".
“🤣 “I don’t know” to George Michael, this guy is definitely real deal !!
I get what he is saying and I agree to a certain degree, BUT..."no music worthwhile listening to since 2000"/2005"!?...there is so much music being made and A LOT of GREAT sounding stuff. Just get out from under the rock and open the mind (and ears), dude :)
(and this being said, I totally respect the work that mr. Elliot Scheiner has contributed with during the years - some of the best sounding stuff - thank you a lot for that!!).
People hate art, and Love popularity. People consider Cowardice a Virtue.
god of the audio universe
The power of the DAW can be used for evil like the analogue days never knew. "See I gotta use the Pultec plug in on the reverb return on the snare.....bla bla bla...."
There is nothing wrong is modern mixing and plugins and stuffs.
Over-engineering and terrible musicians killed it, that's why all of these product has been made... it's for these people.
Silk Sonic is probably the best record made in 45 years. 1. The Songs 2. The Songs. 3. The songs. 4. The performance 5. The Production 6. The Songs.
You make four really good points!
No one hums an amazing-sounding guitar chord. They're happy to hum a good-sounding vocal with an amazing melody!
Better writing makes better productions makes better recordings makes better mixes makes better masters makes better records.
Still a heavily processed record.. And thats part of what makes it sound good. The drums for instance doesnt sound at all like a drumkit would sound live in a room.
Hot take.. Sadly i really dont like it :/ its probably «good», but i just think the songs are super cheesy and i dont connect with the lyrics at all, and the mixing is so bad taste.. so compressed and flat, thats just me tho. It may remind you of 70s production, but the mixing is very modern pop it sounds like to me. Its kinda «faux vintage» All the asthetics and parts are pretty vintagey tho, but i just cant stand the sonics or mixing of that record
@@MariJu1ceExactly
It is the amount of reverb that kills modern music for me. It is like they have painted, in some cases, a fantastic and amazing picture then smudged all the details in to f***ed up mess :(
The most important thing I've learned is to sit on my hands.
he's talking about music/composition/performance not about mixing. all good, just a misleading title
Ellot's age is showing
Yes getting older. Had a serious accident. Your point?.
Still a phenomenal talent and so much to teach.
"back in my day" usually a substitute for "my tastes haven't changed, but culture has moved on." There's tons of good records made since 99. What a weird thing to say. Disparage a 1/4 century of music, casually. OK.
The Strokes
Spoon
Anderson .Paak
Lorde
Louis Cole
Mac Miller
Bamboleo
Frank Ocean
SZA
The Shins
The Roots
The entire New Orleans brass band scene
Arctic Monkeys
on and on
... so much good music.
Weird
I would think this is also a matter of taste. I am willing to be very unpopular here by saying that personally and to my ears the Beatles recordings sound like shit. In the context of their time they definitely sound great. But today we are used to sound that fills out the soundstage a lot more, plus we have HiFi sound systems that allow for this bigger sound opposed to systems in the 60s or 70s. Same with pictures. We have gotten used to lots of post production. Is that a bad thing? Where do you draw the line? I think that is more of a personal decision of taste, not what is 'better'.
The Beatles' mixes were definitely not the best of what could be done in the 1960s - just about anything recorded by Bill Porter at RCA is the best. "Elvis Is Back" for one. Beatles stuff sounded thin.
Slaves still need the English magic spells to enjoy music. Two Centuries and America still has no new language.
I understand where he's coming from, but his message is basically "everything modern bad" and I just can't subscribe to such a view. I would find his critique more compelling if he talked about things done right too. And acknowledged that in his day there were many badly done records as well, we just don't remember them. Instead, today we remember the good stuff. And saying that there's nothing good since 2000s is, unfortunately the proverbial old man yells at cloud stuff.
modern music added too much effects and lead them cant sound good in live perform
I don't like this argument. 99% of music at any given time is a little bit shit, you can't sit there and cherry pick you have to give some evidence aside from the fact that some old music is good
OK, honestly, it's getting a bit tired to hold The Beatles as the pinnacle of musical genius. I mean, go play "Please Please Me" and tell me this is the greatest songwriting in history. It's ... fine. It's pop. For half their career, they were a 60s boy-band.
Sure, they later wrote Strawberry Fields Forever, and at the time it set a new bar for production. But am I to believe that we haven't done anything since that is equally innovative? Eeehhhmmm.....
Also, "these kids today, they just sit in their room and download VSTs of all this classic equipment, and don't understand what any of it is or what it does..." Uh, well, yeah... You were born knowing what an 1176 is and how to use it, I presume? No, at some point in their life, every legendary engineer sat down in front of a mixing board and randomly turned knobs to see what effect it had. That's called "learning" and is pretty much a mandatory part of development.
Agreed. If you have a good ear and sense for sound you don't need to know about any of that, how the algorithm works where it came from. "It should sound like music" - exactly.
Whether or not you like The Beatles' music doesn't matter. For better or worse, they pioneered modern studio recording.
Whether or not you like Apple, they invented modern smart phones.
Whether or not you like Pro-Tools, they made computer based recording a reality.
Whether or not you like Jay Leno's comedy, he was the highest rated late night talk show for decades and is revered by comics.
@@wtwn That's all fine, but when the only reference point anyone has for "music that is good" is The Beatles, it makes me really wonder if 1) they have any credibility as someone who appreciates music, in general; and/or 2) they have any credibility as someone who has opinions of their own, rather than just regurgitating "the safe choice" that nobody will disagree with because.. it's... you know... tHe BeAtLeS.
@@nickwallette6201 Credibilty?..The guy has made some of the best sounding records on the planet..Don't get me started on listing them..jeesh
@@michaelsteven1090 If you read carefully, you'll notice I never question their credentials as an engineer. That's not what I'm saying at atll.
I'm just saying, if you ask someone, "what is good music?" and their answer is, "The Beatles", I sure hope there's more to that list.
Not because The Beatles weren't good, or visionary, or pioneers, or whatever. Just that there's somebody out there, right now, singing something into an iPhone mic that could've set the world on fire if you took it back to the 1960s and played it for a million people. And there have been lots and LOTS of people in between that are equally talented. Holding up The Beatles as a placeholder for all that is good in music strikes me as a tad lazy, and shows a lack of creativity, IMO. _So much great music_ has come since, that, if you have any appreciation for music at all whatsoever, you've GOT to be able to name at least a few.
I totally recognize this is a nit-pick. It absolutely is. Nonetheless, it's bothersome. It's like summing up all rock music with "Nirvana" or all classical with "Mozart" -- other stuff exists, and if all you can name is the obvious one, like... do you even music, bro? ;-)
Beatles used a ton of effects, and tape tricks, as we know, so he is complaining about the same thing he enjoys.
Old man shouts at the sky.. talented or not. He's just starting to sound old.
which is why modern songs sound so much better than The Beatles' records.
If you think good music stopped 20 years ago, you stopped LOOKING for good music 20 years ago, period 🤷♂ smh Most of my idols are the same (rapidly dying) ages as most every other musician's idols, but I'm *sssSOoo* sick of this idea that we have to give every old music industry legend a pass for every opinion they might have just bc they're old music industry legends. Any of this "there's-no-good-music-anymore" bullshit is exactly that, and it immediately betrays subjective bias and objective ignorance. Good music may well be harder to find than it used to be. I'll have THAT discussion all day! But it's absolutely still out there. And more than just that 1% implied here 🙄😖 Dig deeper or be willing to acknowledge you've lost your battle with nostalgia.
I listen to good nowadays music I'm like wow this is amazing. Then I won't play it again. Maybe because music is coming out everyday, everyone and they momma plays music.
@@shan5445 Yeah, I hear ya. At risk of leaning too heavily on a similar mindset to what I'm arguing against above, I think what you're describing (and I've also experienced myself) probably points to the issues more and more of us are having with attention span 😬
Today’s music is paper plate music.