Low Watt LEDs vs T5 Grow Lights: Seed Starting / Lettuce Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Watch my more recent follow up tests & experiments:
► What is PAR vs ePAR Light? • Grow Lights 101: Best ...
► Red vs Blue light & plant growth: • Experiment: Red Light ...
► To avoid Tip Burn: • Preventing Tip Burn: H...
► Light Cycles & DLI: • Photoperiod vs Intensi...
► Cost Calculator: • Electrical Savings: LE...
LEDs that performed much better:
► Spider Farmer SF300/SF600: • LED Grow Lights for Sh... c
► "1000" Model LEDs Pt1: • Spider Farmer, Maxsisu...
► "1000" Model LEDs Pt2: • Budget/Premium LED Gro...
► Spider Farmer SF-2000: • High End LED Grow Ligh...
► Active Grow LoPro Max • Low Profile Dimmable L...
► LED T5 Replacement Tubes: • T5 HO Fluorescent vs L...
► Infinity Linear: • High End LEDs vs T5 Fl...
TIPS: Avoiding LED scammers: link.albopeppe...
Testing Date: 2015
Seed starting in a small scale urban garden does not need to be complicated. You don't need fancy lighting. But the LED grow light market has become glutted with low end, low wattage lights. Unfortunately, not all LED lighting options have lived up to their claims. Some of them don't even deliver the amount of wattage you would rightly expect.
I decided to try testing a few entry level LED grow lights in the hopes that I could find something that would keep up with my T5 fluorescent light. T5 bulbs are efficient. But just as importantly, they are reliably effective. The upfront cost is reasonable. And the cost to run it is not bad (altho I think LEDs are able to improve upon this factor).
But which LEDs should you buy? I wanted to test LEDs that can operate within a confined vertical space. I was hoping to find a grow light that would work in a shelf system, just as fluorescent lights do. For this application, LED panel lights are very appealing. They evenly distribute light across the plant canopy. They're inexpensive, don't cost much to operate & generate very little heat. But how well do low watt LED panels work for seed starting?
** PRODUCT EXAMPLE **
This T5 shelf system is an example of what I'm going for here:
amzn.to/2n9pAnB (Amazon) I want to see a system like this that uses LEDs instead and works just as well. So before you give me a thumbs down, keep in mind that I love LEDs & I'm honestly trying to find a product that fits the bill.
TEST BED (# CommissionsEarned):
Top Rack - T5 Fluorescent / 2ft x 4 bulbs (6500k) - 96w (86w actual - measured after making video)
Coverage area: 22.5" x 13.5" = 304 sq in
Upfront Cost (Q1 2016) - $89
Amazon Link: amzn.to/2npsKFE
Bottom Rack Side 1 - LED Blue - 13.8w (15w actual)
Coverage area: 12" x 12" = 144 sq in
Upfront Cost (Q1 2016) - $35
Amazon Link: amzn.to/2mSp1wI
Bottom Rack Side 2 - LED Red + Blue - 45w (29w actual)
Coverage area: 12" x 12" = 144 sq in
Upfront Cost (Q1 2016) - $36
Amazon Link: amzn.to/2mSMJsq
My PPFD Meter (Apogee Instruments):
► amzn.to/3ebJiHZ
UPDATED READINGS:
After purchasing my Apogee SQ-500 Quantum Light Sensor, I was able to take some PAR readings as measured in PPFD. This is obviously much more useful than a lux reading.
15w Blue LED: 29 PPFD @ 6 inches / 60 PPFD @ 3"
15w (9w) Red/Blue LED: 120 PPFD @ 6"
45w (29w) Red/Blue LED: 320 PPFD @ 6"
Distance: Lights were placed 6" from soil surface.
Initial Test: Multiple seed types grown in potting mix in flats & trays.
Final Test: Tom Thumb lettuce grown from seed in Kratky's hydroponic trays.
RESULTS:
Using 48w per plant, the T5 light generated the most plant growth.
The "45w" Red/Blue LED light performed acceptably, but not quite as well. I would like to test it just a little more.
The 15w Blue LED system was just not able to perform. Plant growth was slow, weak and spindly. This was observed in the lettuce plant. But it was also clearly observed in a variety of other seedlings during my initial test.
RECOMMENDATIONS:
I do not advise buying these 15w LED systems for anything other than a supplemental light. You need a very bright, sunny window. The LED would need to be high enough up that it doesn't shade the plant from the natural light. Used in this way, the light would give a small boost to your plants.
For $35-$40 though, such systems are hardly worth the money. They aren't even worth the 12" x 12" physical space that they take up. To keep up with a T5, I would look for a Red/Blue panel LED that consumes over 30w per square foot. It's possible that some models might be more efficient than other similar LED panels. But they would require actual testing to verify.
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_Check out my other reviews:_
*"1000" LED Grow Lights Shootout pt 1:* th-cam.com/video/g6n8VhVGKDY/w-d-xo.html
*"1000" LED Grow Lights Shootout pt 2:* th-cam.com/video/WmjOSzSF-HI/w-d-xo.html
*Spider Farmer SF300 / SF600:* th-cam.com/video/RXbR-hcXeQ4/w-d-xo.html
*Active Grow LoPro Max 320W:* th-cam.com/video/PCaesi_M5DQ/w-d-xo.html
*Maxsisun MG3000:* th-cam.com/video/Tw6-w2gybgo/w-d-xo.html
This UPS power station can backup a grow light!
► th-cam.com/video/h3sUUHCEqbs/w-d-xo.html
Check out my *Grow Light Cost Calculator:* th-cam.com/video/aToYhyPZMVs/w-d-xo.html
_Learn more about artificial lighting and plant growth:_
► What is PAR vs ePAR Light? th-cam.com/video/kUpEQ4kU148/w-d-xo.html
► The impact of Red or Blue light on plant growth: th-cam.com/video/sfihE4IuFuU/w-d-xo.html
► To avoid Tip Burn: th-cam.com/video/gHWf4Hfi3hA/w-d-xo.html
► Light Cycles & DLI: th-cam.com/video/dQlOJ1zvoPI/w-d-xo.html
For some tips on avoiding LED scammers, read more: albopepper.com/LED-grow-light-disappointment.php
nice work!
new here and loving it
Very helpful! Thank you!
I feel a bit stupid because it seems too obvious but shouldn't you be comparing light output/intensity per watt? the winner from a comparison of two different lights with similar wattage would be the light with the highest light intensity, or in other words in a comparison of two lights with similar light intensity the one with the lowest wattage consumption would win. what am I missing?
Hi Pak De. Ideally, the lights would have specs for the PPF / Joule. That would tell us the plant usable light per wattage draw (the efficacy). But that info was not disclosed in the product descriptions. Using minimum wattage requirements per coverage area is the most basic starting point. And these 15w LED panels shown here are simply too underpowered. Then, add other factors like their poor efficacy and limited light spectrum and we have even MORE reasons to look for better options.
In the planted aquarium (hobbyist) community, we've been toying with lighting for many years, so I know something (but not enough) about different sources and bulb types. I'm sure you know more than you were able to compress into the video, so I apologize if I point out the obvious. For fluorescent tubes, the "T" rating is bulb diameter measured in eighths of an inch. So a T5 is 5/8" diameter. And those bulbs are T5HO (High Output) bulbs, as opposed to T5NO (Normal Output) bulbs, which are lower wattage - a little over half - and put out less light (just important to point out to people who might be interested in purchasing a fixture). Also, a good reflector can increase total output by well over 100%, compared to no reflector, by redirecting otherwise lost light to the plants.
LEDs are a different breed. To start with, each color diode has a different voltage drop than the next. I'm not entirely sure how that might play into wattage irregularities, if at all, but maybe? Also, each diode has a lens, which may be 45, 60, 90, 120, or other number of degrees of spread. That will dramatically affect how much light gets to the plants, and how high it has to be mounted.
And as for lux, it's a decent general guide to light, but PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) is better, as it more accurately measures available light for plants. Unfortunately PAR meters are much more expensive, starting in the $200 range. But there are very general conversion factors for lux to PAR. It's important to understand that each color has a different factor, which might be another reason why there was a different growth rate relative to the wattage ratios between the two (different-colored) LED fixtures. The same is true of fluorescent bulbs, but since they produce a wide spectrum of light with different color (Kelvin) averages, it's less obvious.
In my hobby, in the past 2 1/2 years or so, there has been an almost complete shift in focus from fluorescent to LED. There have been big changes in the LED market, so look for them to continue to improve (and become even more affordable).
Anyway, just some rambling thoughts. Keep up the good work!
have you tried any UV LEDs as grow lights instead of just regular LED?
Plants do not really use UV radiation at all, so this would be pointless.
+Biff Mifflin wow, I did not know that. If I ever get into that business, I'll be sure to use 'em
actually UV speeds up the germinating process. But can ultimately damage the cells of the plant causing long term problems also
Only UV? Good for germinating NOT FOR vegetative growth.. You need mainly blue for veg and red for flowering (violet & deep red are helpful also..)
If you mix cinnamon in a little bit of water, heat it up or boil it to dissolve it then spray it on the soil surface, it will prevent all algae and fungus with no adverse effects on the plants.
Hi Paul! Thanks for the cool tip. :)
This is why Ed Rosenthal's Zero Tolarance works so well I think. Dilute it though at 1/2 or what I do, 1/4 strength :)
Good info on the cinnamon though, and much cheaper!
Paul Miltiades peroxide
It has to be Ceylon cinnamon though.
You may also just sprinkle it on top of your soil.
This may have been put in the comments already but; Leaf tip burn in the lettuce can be caused by calcium deficiency. Even though your nutrient levels may be OK, the rate that the lettuce takes it up isn't fast enough to compensate for growth and transpiration of water. So the calcium doesn't make it all the way to the leaf edge. I don't think that the heat given off by your lights would be enough to burn the lettuce. But they might be just warm enough to accelerate transpiration. Just a thought. Good video. Just bought some cheap LEDs during Amazons sale days. Haven't really tried them out yet.
Thanks for the observations! I've been learning (along with what you've mentioned) that excessive light levels can also be a part of the cause. The lettuce tries to grow faster than the calcium uptake can permit. Reducing light levels and/or light cycle duration can help to reduce the issue. :-D
Very good test. Thank you. When I checked with the manufacturer of a larger LED light that was using about 60% of the wattage they advertised it at they claimed that higher wattage didn't generate more light. They used the wattage level that generated maximum light. Also better reliability at the lower wattage. My problem is them advertising the light at the full wattage. I have noticed that some of the manufacturers are now listing the actual wattage in the ad. I've had very good luck with LED lights. For vegetative growth you might give LE floodlights a try. They come in different wattages, I usually buy the 50 Watt. They come in two temperatures Daylight White (DW), and Warm White (WW). The DW works really well for vegetative growth, the WW works well for fruiting plants during the end of the growth cycle. Only problem with the LE lights is they are designed to work as an outside flood lamp, so they don't have a plug. You would have to splice one on, or wire the light into a circuit. Hope all this helps.
Thanks for the tip Don! Yeah, these light sellers should not be hiding the actual wattage. There is a certain range of efficiency which will have a big impact on performance. But even if an LED maker was able to achieve 100% theoretical efficiency, the light would still need a certain minimum amount of wattage to achieve the desired PPFD. I've never seen a 15w per sq ft LED that has actually produced stellar growth. Something for consumers to keep in mind when shopping. :-D
Great video...answered a question I didn't know to ask...i assumed T5 shoplights were not suitable for growing so i ignored the basement full of T5 lights that came with the house. Wish I would have watched this months ago.
Am I the only one who clicks on the HD gear tool and runs these videos at 2.0 speed? Seriously, I get twice the bang for my buck! Neat test.
I would check to see if the led like lights were putting out any heat from the top. The upper level of lettuce may have also been warmer than the lower level. I might test this, too! Thanks for sharing this!
This was the most informative video I've seen on grow lights..thanks AlboPepper
Thanks Luke! It's just piece of the puzzle. Avoiding super low wattage lights is important. LEDs are more efficient, but they still require enough power to actually get the job done. I have another test in the works, which will show the effects of different colors on plant growth. Stay tuned! ;-D
Will do..I thought about buying some 12 watt bulbs but I'm sure the 45 is much better.
I need to know what light you used to grow that luxurious mustache 😜
Excellent video, interesting experiment! ✌️
Hahahaha! Great comment!
Dude you look like the real Supermario to me!!! I love it!!! p.s. gr8 video super informative funny and cool!! keep up with the gr8 work!! Bye from Italy!
Great experiment ! What you are experiencing is the fact that there is no rule of knowledge when it comes to LED's. i have been trying to figure out "what you are buying" for years now because no one knows ! The Chinese are just copying the technology and putting it out there for a quick sale. i do know you didn't have enough light. Just because they are LED's doesn't make them applicable to what you are doing......those lamps you purchased are the same diodes in the dash board of your car. You need 'High Power" LED's for growing plants.....and if you get them from China, they probably aren't ! .... Thanks for posting this info !
Could you awnser couple of questions:
1. How long did it take for you to grow letuse show in the end of video
2. Did you calculate how much did it cost to grow all it in wat usage?
3.did you tried to taste them? Maybe blue led taste better?
You remind me of mario 😅
it'sa me!
🤣🤣🤣
I was looking to buy a T5 today, but somewhere I read they weren’t very effective. This definitely changed my mind a bit. Thanks for the info :)
T5 florescents can grow plants just fine as long as you have enough bulbs placed at the proper distance. But modern LEDs are over twice as efficient. So a good LED grow light can generate the same amount of light using half of the power. This video was a warning about some of the inferior LEDs that were being sold years ago. Even though LEDs require less power, you need to be careful not to get one that is too low in wattage draw. Otherwise, it just can't compete against T5 HO fluorescent lights.
Usually tip burns on lettuce like this is due to poor air ventilation. Leaves need air movement around them to allow water in it to evaporate (transpire) so they can transport their food (nutrients) inside at the same time. Worst case scenario for tip burn is lot of light along with high temperature that both stimulate growth and low air movement (reduce nutrient transport), this is probably your case.
Note that hydroponic amplify this all on top, since their roots are always wet and saturated, causing the plant to be full of water too.. so without proper ventilation, stomata (pore) stay close and everything stay lock inside basically resulting in necrosis growth such as tip burn.
Thank-you for the excellent feedback Julien! There certainly wasn't much airflow. I'll have to keep this in mind for sure!
My pleasure. You can just add a fan in the room to make the air flow. And about the different sizes, it's probably that T5 provide a more balanced light spectrum than only red-blue LEDs. Usually with LEDs you have to mimic the sun light spectrum by adding all colours to the blend (red, blue and green or white).
I don't think that is the case, as in nature plants will store water when the soil is dry and will reduce transpiration. They don't end up with burned leaves until after some time, usually burned leaves are from a combination of things. Usually enough time without transportation coupled with heat like the sun will cause it. It's why they appear dry.
Plants will not get burned leaves without wind, most plants are designed to live in their specified environment. Many live in the undergrowth of forests and never experience any wind for example.
atmospheric water content accounts for most of the evaporation, wind is certainly a factor but never enough to cause burned leaves (unless it's in intense sun).
Notice how it was the T5 one that burned and it was when it got half way to the light. Pretty sure it was the T5 that burned the leaf and not a lack of wind. Just as the LED plants leaves were not burned, notice that?
Julien Parisé .
so ventilation effects growth speed? thats good info mang.
Fantastic analysis Al. I'm getting a complete education from your videos :)
:-) Thanks Ed!
Thanks for the breakdown and test results.
Hey Albert, your uncle Dave here...Love it!!! I have to check out some more. Keep up the good work.
Nice! Welcome to my Channel. Thanks for visiting Uncle!!! :-D
Yes cool information there.
Thanks, this was very interesting and informative. A very well run experiment!
Thank-you Judith! xD
re-writing: i greatly appreciate the scientific, and especially the experimental approach, my only concern is how much importance you are placing on pure wattage readings.
You could be incentivizing sellers to simply stick in more inefficient or even unnecessary circuitry just to increase the amount of wattage being used.
Very good to see the light meter tests and i think you should place more importance on cost to light output
Dude, good stuff and I just subbed:) Keep the great videos going and I love the Mario Bros!
LOL! Welcome to my channel and thanks for your support!
AlboPepper - Drought Proof Urban Gardening,you may like my channel as well man:)
O9
Thank you for the video. Enjoyed it. One point however which I'm sure others may have mentioned. The T5 you use is 54w per bulb. That is 214w which will clearly beat a 29w LED. I was surprised the LED did so well in fact.
Hi Cain! Thanks for watching and for providing your feedback. :) I think the wattage you are referencing is for a 4 foot long T5 bulb. In this test, I was using 4 x 24w bulbs (2 foot long). It was a brand new pack of Apollo 6400k bulbs: bit.ly/29CCbu8 (Amazon).
It's kind of amazing to see how much things have changed since you dropped this video. LED's have really come into their own.
Yes, I agree completely. I've seen firsthand how the tech has gotten better & better!
@@Albopepper What would you reccomend instead of T5 in 2023 lol, things indeed came far
@@revoltoff samsung quantum led boards
Love these experiments and people like you who go through the efforts to set up, record & publish! Thanks
Great simple video. Thanks. I found the same thing. I started my seeds under LED panels along with some pretty good window light last year. They were terrible. MY old cheapo shop lights worked way better. Maybe I should invest in one of those light meters and do another little experiment.
thanks for the time and effort, I appreciate it from the bottom of my heart.
Regarding the green stuff growing... You need better airflow, just a small clip on fan will do. I recommend you occasionally add 1/4 part hydrogen peroxide 3/4 water to get rid of the mildew.
I just saw an unboxing video of the Spider Farmer SF-600. It's a long thin light that draws 75 watts. It seems ideal for this application :)
Thanks for the suggestion! I'm actively measuring the SF-300 and SF-600 right now actually! :-D
wouldn't lumens per watt per sq inch be a better way to measure?
David N
yes
no longer, because lumens are a measure of how much light the human eye sees. nowadays the tech for plant growth relies on PAR, which measure how much *usable * light is available to the plant.
Steve Johnson ... which means theres something wrong or not known with the par system. i wish there was just one simple number for cannabis lights lol.
@@nyimakgan Lumens would measure total light output, but not the light output over the growing area. Lux would be the method for measuring intensity over the grow bed. However, PAR readings as measured by PPFD would be much better. And if comparing different colored lights, PAR readings are the only accurate way to go. However, that does no good when the sellers don't list PPFD readings or intensity maps.
Par negates the peak points of chlorpyl a+b and instead includes the entirety of light in between the 2, hence the higher par lights being out performed, similar to the way 54,000 lux is 1k umol and hps around 84,000 per 1k. Takes much less mh but the lamps produce less, evolution of the lec
I'd like to see an updated video with a comparison of the T5 to new full spectrum bulbs.
Ooops, looks like you did that one in 2017... I'll check it out.
I’m either really stoned or That couch and table are gigantic
LOL!
wkudelt492 lolz
por que no los dos?
Or maybe he's just really small?
this had me dying laughing
Thanks for the video man, I was debating whether to replace 2 ballasts and all the lights on my t5 fixture, or buying some of those low watt LEDs. Mind made up now.
i am still 18yrs old but i dont know why i am studying about indoor farm 🤣
Appreciate all the work you did for this video. I'm still confused. So many now on Amazon. Will stick with at least 40W
Thanks for watching. Basically, those particular 15w LED panels are both under powered and inefficient.They just don't emit much light over a 1 square foot area. Plus, they have a limited color spectrum. Meanwhile, this type of bulb is only 15w but works great: th-cam.com/video/gHWf4Hfi3hA/w-d-xo.html
The SANSI LEDs have improved efficiency, meaning more light per watt. And also a narrow beam, which focuses all of the light on a single plant. So they are perfect for one plant like lettuce, etc. But on a seedling tray, the plants in the center would get good light while the ones on the edge would be starved.
Much of it depends on what you want to grow.
AlboPepper - Drought Proof Urban Gardening
Could you provide a link to the grow lights that you mentioned that gave you a night-and-day? result?
These lights are solid performing for individual small plants like lettuce, greens, large seedlings or house plants:
SANSI 15w LED - (White): amzn.to/2zEUQzT (Amazon)
A Chinese seller ripping people off through false marketing? Im shocked.
LOL Who could imagine!?
@@Albopepper It depends where you go though. I got my 240 watt quantum boards from Chinese sellers on Alibaba and they are a true 240 watts. The source matters of course, Amazon sellers take advantage of the fact that they are selling to a wide, uneducated audience
You should do a video on how you set up a hydroponics system exactly like the one you did in this video in deep details. It'll help a lot of people like myself..
Hi Trayy! That's a great suggestion. I'll definitely keep that in mind. Thanks man!
A really informative video on comparison of LED vs T5. What is the CRI of the T5 lamps you are using and the Lumens? Thanks!
EXCELLENT VIDEO, YOURE AN AMAZING TH-camR THANK YOU FOR THE HELP!!
Thanks for your kind words Robert!
It looks like the Blue Light gave Healthy Growth, but not alot of growth. It looks like purple light gave lots of growth, but not healthy growth. Florescent tubes were white light, therefore containing both purple and blue, But growresults looked tuned to more growth(purple), but less healthy growth (blue). It looks like more Blue light would be better, it was dim there.
Led lights are just as good the problem with led lights are u can't go cheap u get what I pay for it's that simple u buy cheap u get cheap results and I truely believe that it depends on what your growing all plants have there own personally and character so they all need different settings I also use t5 lights for seedlings but seedlings only for the rest I use led lights just not cheap ones
Cheap can mean: poor quality, low efficiency, or low price. You can get some excellent LEDs for cheap (low price). But you need to get ones that have decent build quality and efficiency. Regardless, the LEDs in this video are irrelevant. The test was ran 5 1/2 years ago when the market was completely different.
I noticed some things in your experiment that you may want to adjust for future experiments. First you will want to keep both plants at the same elevation, there could be a difference in the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere at the different elevations that you had the two plants. Another issue could be that you don't have the plants isolated enough from outside light sources, the lower plants didn't get as much outside light as the upper plants. maybe try adding some reflective barrier around the plants so that they are only receiving the light from the sources being tested. Third, the T5 puts out more heat than that of the LEDs, so there may be a temp difference, not only from the light, but from the elevation, I know that in my house there is at least a 7 degree difference between the ceiling and the floor, could be 2 or 3 degrees between the plants just based on elevation. The leaf burn was most likely caused by the proximity of the plant to the light, as the plant grew, the newer tender leaves were growing ever closer to the light and as they got closer, the received more light than they could handle and burned, you will have to adjust the distance from the plant to the light as they grow to prevent burning. These are just friendly tips, not intending to be a dick though you may think I am one, that's up to you. It was a good vid, just needs a couple of adjustments.
Excellent ideas really appreciate your input good job
Thank you for this comparison, just to clarify a regular grow light is better than LED grow lights that's what I'm seeing by looking at those lettuce heads. You say T5 what do you mean by T5
Hi Pam. Thanks for watching. Those LEDs were significantly underpowered. For a 1 square foot growing area, I advise getting LEDs that are more than 15w in power draw. Ideally, they would be newer, more efficient LED technologies with a broad color spectrum intended for plant growth. Compared to T5 fluorescent lights, LEDs can be as much as TWICE as efficient. So really LEDs are preferred. But they should not be low watt ones like the ones I showed here. If you can't get quality LEDs, then T5s would still be the better way to go.
T5 bulbs also come in the bloom spectrum that are very affordable.
That's a good point!
Thank you for that information it was very informative.
i use reptile red and blue 60w heat bulb lights they do a good job
I started on those bulbs . Lol red ones don't do nothing but add extra heat though.
Get you some spider farmer lights they work good it's working good on buck croy. Lettuce all kind of leafy greens first kind of lights never had any problem yet go hydroponics you won't have that problem get you some tray
This helps a lot, I was going to replace my T5, but now I think I'll keep them!
Thanks for watching! It's worth replacing T5s for the sake of efficiency, but it's important to select lights that output enough light. No point in getting weak LEDs that generate slow, spindly growth. :)
If plants consumes the photons from lighting, another aspect you might want to check is the flicker. Flicker is a lighting going on/off really fast. People can notice flicker if the lighting turns on/off less than about 100~200 times per seconds, but for plants they maybe different. I mean, they may consume the photons differently under different levels of flickering lighting. All artificial lighting has different level of flicker, and even same fluorescent lighting can have different level of flicker with different ballast. And, in general, LED tends to have more flicker than others. In other words, LED has lower frequency than others. I bet higher frequency lighting emits more photons and plants can consume more photons under the higher frequency lighting. It also would be interesting to test how much photons a plant can take. In other words, what is the maximum frequency of an artificial lighting for plants to take most amount of photons.
Excellent point, especially about the amount of photons different plants can tolerate. I started researching that and mention it in this video: th-cam.com/video/sfihE4IuFuU/w-d-xo.html Lettuce, for example, has a much lower threshold for acceptable light levels. My new Quantum Sensor has allowed me to take all sorts of interesting readings. I'm anxious to share my findings! ;-D
Why do i find this out AFTER my indoor sowing stage?!!! :D. Ty for the vid.
I am testing LEDs with your clorox Kratkey method. Just finished 5 wks. Your recommended Sansi 15W full spectrum outperformed both a 12W and 22.5W red/blue light. The leaves were stronger (less limp) than the red/blue lights. Newer Panels have white/ir/uv along with red/blue so am looking at those next. Also may test the lights at similar heights to see if that makes a difference. There has to be an affordable config of LEDs as they are much more efficient than the T5s. I must find it.
Fluorescent will eventually be phased out (mercury). GE will no longer make CFL's after 2017, so LED is the future. Someday, there will hopefully be a "standard" for PAR and wattage from LED's so buyers can make an informed decision. Keep up the good work!
+Rockwood Joe - Thanks for watching! I agree that LEDs are the future. I think that there is a niche that hasn't been filled very well in replacing low profile T5 set ups. I know LEDs could easily do it. But we just need to see a good model that is designed for that task, and priced accordingly!
You are so right on this point man. Thanks.
Toby Henderson kooiijjhhh
I like that you gave a clear and precise explanation. Thank you. I already bought a few led and I would like to test them. What's the name of that tester? I'm growing avocado.
Oh wow!!! Thanks for sharing your experiment, greatly appreciated 👍🏼
as an eBay seller make sure to leave your review on the product but not to the seller. it sounds like he was honorable. small sellers do not have the resources to test all their products, they have to rely on reviews just like the consumer. if products are new there is not a lot to go by and in order to be competitive often you need to buy from new manufacturers.
I'm actually happy my 45w panel is 29w (tho I have a newer one with UV and IR leds as well)
I'm finding it quite helpful but I just started growing my peppers so what do I know.
Window seal on a sunny side looses with the spare room led panel. I believe people should not go pro when starting also power consumption is an important factor.
Good informative video!
Thank you very much ... this is very helpful information
Good video. We advise people to look for actual watts on LEDs as they are not all the same. Sometimes LED companies display their total watts rather than the actual draw which can range between 40-60% less than the total watts. This is especially true with Chinese companies as well as listings on Amazon where they list the total Watts to look more appealing. The actual watts may be less than half so just be aware.
Chip on board LEDs tend to be a better investment than regular 3W 5W LED arrays which can lose up to 30% of their light efficiency/output after a year. That is information most companies don't give out. COB LEDs will last a long time 50k-100k hours (for decent quality) with minimal light loss. Some big advantages of LEDs are the perfectly blended spectrums of light and no hotspots. That said, not all LED lights are going to be the right fit for you. Depending on your budget, you can grow with something cheaper. If you are looking for a cheaper LED then there are plenty of DIY guides out there.
Red and Blue spectrums provide plants with roughly 95% of what they need.
+COB Grow Lights - Good info! I recently created a page talking about wattage misrepresentations: albopepper.com/LED-grow-light-disappointment.php That's why I made a point to show differences in what the lights were labeled as vs what they actually draw. Thanks for the additional info!
For the fungus on your soil put some cinnamon on the soil. I am too allergic to fongus so I learned!
Great experiment. I have just been considering LED as an alternative to my newly installed 4 foot T12 grow table (the electricity bill came). This helped my decision making. Thank you.
+Lolita's Garden - Thanks for watching! I'm glad it was able to help out a little. You can use my approach for calculating the upfront cost per sq in or sq ft of coverage area. And then you could compare the cost of power consumption for each potential set up.
I would say LEDs can be worthwhile, especially compared to T12s. But it all comes down to which configuration you choose. And of course, it also depends on how many hours per year than you anticipate running them.
AlboPepper - Drought Proof Urban Gardening nl
Question. How many hours a day did you use the T5 light and does it suck electricity raising the power bill? What about heat generation. Do T5 lights generate a lot of heat. I'm growing my herbs in a garage.
That “45 watt” light is good for your clones, low but not to low par values
agreed!
Thank you for this test and results. I know it is an old video. I will check out your channel to see what you're doing now. Best wishes.
Omg Wario is a gardener!
LOL, It'sa me!
Where do you think all those fire flowers get started
The ambient temperature affects how much wattage LED lights use.
Quality white LED's rated at the same wattage and color temperature as those T5 would kill that T5 rig. In fact it would be overkill.
Hi Lorn, thanks for watching. As noted in the vid, I agree that increasing wattage would be needed for performance matching. But that's a good point. Matching watt for watt would be overkill. It seems that 66-75% is a good estimate when going from T5 to LED. Some ultra efficient LEDs might even be able to do it with 50% of the power. But yes, they need to be quality. And broad color spectrum is most reliable.
minds well go with a 315
Great video. I subbed with notifications. The low watt blue light lettuce looks delicious. The others look terrible, good for feeding my Russian Tortoise. Can you try it with something else and with more powerful blue lights? There were too many variables in your experiment..
Thanks for subscribing CJ and for supporting my channel! Please check out some of the follow-up videos listed in my pinned comment. You will see that I've had much better success using some slightly newer LED options.
Thank you so much for that informative video, I had been on the fence for a while about LED or T5 and that just solved it for me
A great way to eliminate the green fungus etc from growing when sprouting seeds is a light dusting of real cinnamon powder on the dirt immediately after planting.
Thanks for the tip! I'm growing to try a thin layer of vermiculite to see how that works. Already gathering supplies for a new test! ;-)
Awesome. I start our spring n summer garden plants in mid winter and occasionally get the green. I use perilite. I also add collodial silver in my first watering. Both hydo and in peat/perilite mix
Hi. Thank you. For making these videos.
What’s the name of the mobile app you use to measure the light intensity.
I use Light Meter Pro and it's free
you should take your led panels to a friend who does electronics so he can put an ajustable resistor on so you can adjust the wattage on your lights. if they were built reputable, the led's can handle the increase of power to get them to where they are suppose to be.
I wish you would redo this with a true 45w BLUE LED light or even 100w, price be damned. I want to see if a much better plant comes out vs the t5.
I understand what you're saying. Trust me, it was really frustrating to test light after light only to find they had all misrepresented their wattage. I actually have some really good news on this front though! I was contacted by the CEO of Transcend Lighting and they are sending me some LED grow lights that utilize the T5 form factor. They are commercial quality and directly replace the fluorescent T5 bulbs. They even utilize the same 4 foot T5 fixtures. But the performance and energy savings make them look very promising! So I intend to test these alongside my T5. Here is the company info: www.transcendlighting.com . Subscribe to see how it works out after a couple months! :D
hmm that link doesn't work, or google is preventing that link from working.
The main thing ive notice with t5 is heat. Heat is the the killer. T5 wrks wonderfull please do a t5 comparisson with blue spectrum and red.
Can you please make video on
How to make nutrients solution for leafy vegetables.
Is it me or is that chair and table SUPER HUGE? LoL
;-P
Thank you for sharing. I grasped a few interesting concepts.
However that's 43w (86/2) vs 29w of actual power per lettuce. Might not be the most fair test.
Maybe those LED light panels might are intended to be used inside a reflective container (like a box plated with tin foil), or much closer, otherwise the light level is too dim.
Hi Javier. Thanks for watching the video. LEDs have a higher efficacy than T5s. So it is reasonable to expect them to perform the same tasks using less power. But we need to be cautious of selecting wattages that are too low.
A significant point in the video is to warn consumers about buying LEDs that don't supply enough light, due to low wattages. Additionally, I was able to expose these LED panels as being a waste of money. Keep in mind that one of the LED light seller claims: "it would be better if it cover 2-3 Sqm at 1.6FT- 8.2FT height" So they recommend a much larger coverage area and operating distance. This information is clearly very bogus.
On the other hand, my followup test shows much better results, without relying on reflectors: th-cam.com/video/5KcJf1Tbmbg/w-d-xo.html
Great information. tfs
The color of the light is very important. Different bands tell the plant to do different things. The LEDs are also missing UV-A and UV-B, which are really important for the plant to receive and red and far-red light controls various timing mechanisms. If the light doesn't display the spectral output, if it's an LED array, just simply don't purchase it.
Great stuff!! What is the name of the app you downloaded to measure light?
I would like to recommend the daylight bulbs LED's. They are called Daylight for a reason. you want to have 5k kelvin color of a light or more as it's closer to actual sunlight. I would like to see a comparison with that. Your test has shown whiter light does better. Not really that LED is worse then T5
I agree that fuller spectrums yield the most reliable results. However, light must also emit enough photons to produce sufficient growth. And to do this, they need a certain minimum amount of power. That's why wattage requirements are also a factor.
I love scientific people like you. Great experiment! I picked up some cheap led lights recently that are 600w equivalents for like 60$ each, and honestly they kick ass. Way better than my 4’ t-5 and cheaper, too. Their footprint isn’t as large and they need to be 18-24” away from your plants, so those are some drawbacks, especially if you’re starting seeds on a rack system.
Wonder what kind of results you would get with different kind of houseplants, from very high light houseplants like a Yucca to like a low light plant
Don't buy cheap led fixtures from china... do your research before you buy something like that from ebay/amazon. You get what you pay for, Search you tube for good led fixtures.
+BlackJedi169 -What model(s) do you recommend?
+BlackJedi169 The point of the video seems to be comparing different methods with the same cost.
+Daniel Marquez The problem is that below a certain price you can only find "crappy" lights made with obsolete chips. You can make better lights building the thing by yourself (prices for finished products are inflated and usually over rated).
Warranty, wattage, leds brand, certification...are important
Thank You 😊
You're a legend!
I like that you showed the actual wattage of the LED fixtures, but what were the actual watts of the T5 bulbs? Just as a comparison for the amount of power used compared to the weight of the finished lettuce head. That way, we could know cost per head in watts and use our local power cost for better results. I like that your video doesn't use music and graphics, just the facts.
Thanks! Check the description for the light specs.
Hi there!
Nice test!
Could you please share link to your "lx meter" app? ^)
I still use T12’s and T8’s and love them. I believe that the bulbs last longer than the smaller tubes like T5 and I have also designed my light shelves so that they are also used as heat mats from the warmth from the ballasts!! I also don’t use the grow bulbs in all of the sockets I mix warm white, and daylight and one grow bulb per shelf and have been doing that for 15 years
well now im on the fence, theres a women on youtube that grows lettuce and sells it hydroponically she should be easy enough to look up she was on the news to, she had a few different set ups including LED and T5 and the Leds put the T5s to shame, now i see this and im almost wondering is it like you said because of the low wattage or poor manufacturer, if the T5s you said were 95watts in total you would need 95watts of led to make a fair battle. All i know if Cfls and T5s are cheap and work great! and leds are expensive and work better lol so for the average person i would say cfl and t5 would be the way to go
+FisherManStan88 - Ah yes! I believe it was Katie from the Lettuce People? She has done some excellent work in this field. I think she is using some strip LEDs which are very high quality. I'm wanting to test some strip LEDs in the future, hoping for better results.
Basically, the 96w T5 covers 304 sq inches. So it would take two 12" square panel LEDs to achieve 288 square inches of coverage. Each one would only need to be 45w each (or hopefully a little less). Both spectrum and efficiency will impact the results.
I find it interesting that my "45w" LED consumed 3 times the energy as the "14w" version. But it appeared to produce only double the light -not triple! hmmm...
+AlboPepper Pretty sure its the Panasonic strips she was using (If its the video i think it is). I tried to price them in the UK, but the Panasonic website didn't have prices and I gave up in a huff.
+GingerRuss75 - I found it! They're using 4′ Philips LED strip lights at 36 watts: www.philips.com/b-dam/b2b-li/en_AA/products/Horticulture/Horticulture-products/cl-g-production_module-en.pdf
Dang your google Fu is strong 8) I was close it began with a P hehe
+AlboPepper The higher powered LED bulbs produce more light / Watts of energy consumed. But they are also more expensive, so the cheap LED lights use low power LEDs (1 Watt or less / bulb). Also, it would be very useful to be able to do some sort of spectrum analysis on the LEDs you are testing, because many cheap LEDs use for example red bulbs that are 620-630nm or thereabouts, which is a bit off from the photosynthetic sweet spot. For optimal plant growth, the red spectrum should be 660nm, but 660nm LEDs are more expensive so they use the 620nm ones... I could go on and on but I'll just say that the cheap LED panels aren't there yet to really compete with T5s. I've bought many and have always been disappointed.
I do have one 120W LED panel that was very expensive (200€ if I remember correctly) and it produces spectacular plant growth. 660nm red with 470nm blue. If it really lasts the ten years the seller promised, then it can really compete against T5s, because you have to change the tubes like every year or so and they also cost money. Plus, it doesn't produce much heat at all when compared to 120 Watts worth of fluorescent tubes.
GREEN is mold on surface, use vermiculite on surface to block the light and it wont grow also helps with damping off in brocc
First time subscriber I loved your presentation and honest approach in a great understandable manner......hugs and best wishes from Scotland xx🤗😀
I have appreciated this channel, it's knowledge, and it's honesty. I want to share a point that we are going to prove soon in time lapse.
For any plant with fruit or flower nodes at more than 1 height (1 node 6" above the floor + another node 5" above the floor) 6500K is the reddest light an indoor plant should receive until flower.
Adding inches between the nodes by veging with 5400K sunlight will cut indoor yield almost 50%
I will always pay for 54watts of 6500K florescent instead of 15watts of 5400K LED, to add 50% more yield in flower.
Hmmm, but if we are going to look at cost per sq inch, we should really also look at cost per sq inch per day. Your T5 lettuce would have cost three times as much to grow as your best LED lettuce. HOWEVER, you grew 2 under the T5 panel Vs 1 under the LED panel. which puts cost per T5 plant at 1.5 of cost per LED plant. If you grew 3 under T5 (which is probably possible, then the cost per plant would be equal with the LED.
What are the ingredients for the hydroponic solution? And do you still have the root/soil in their plastic pots or are the plastic plant growing pots removed somehow? Maybe after they have germinated and got sufficient roots in the pot?
You could also factor in yield. Thus, it would be useful to look at the harvested plant weight per watt. This would reflect the running costs. Plus you could add in the up front costs and any relevant maintenance cost (like replacement bulbs). It just depends on your operation and what you are looking to do.
Thanks man! You just saved me major time and money! Cheers!
The blue is often the wrong wavelength on those ebay panels, hyper violet is a bit more expensive.
I was unlucky enough to have ordered that same 9 watt piece of garbage....I had a horrible experience as it wouldn't even support seedlings.
That stinks man! These junky LED sellers are making bold statements, but can't back it up . That's why I made this video, to help people to avoid these bottom of the barrel products. Thanks for watching!
AlboPepper - Drought Proof Urban Gardening What do you think about those $100 165 watt marine panels on Amazon?
GREAT video!!!!
nice info between t5 and leds
Here's the perfect solution - Transcend Lighting's LED T5 (30 watts). These lights are a 1:1 replacement for a 54 watt fluorescent and will work in your existing fluorescent T5 fixtures. With a simple bulb swap you'll consume 45% less energy and emit 45% less heat. They're also made in the US and come with a 5 year warranty. Of course, they cost more up front but the energy savings alone pays you back in 18 months!
+Joel Cheney - Hi Joel! Thank-you for the product tip! I like that type of lighting solution a lot. Question: Do they make 2 ft bulbs or only the 4 ft ones?
Hello, for right now they only come in 4 ft. Obviously a great option if you already have a fluorescent fixture that size hung.
I export 2 ft LED tube seed lights from $18.00 each up to 6ft and tubes for different plants and those with a flower like strawberry
What I am not sure about is Do you keep the grow lights on constantly? Or do you time the to turn off at certain times? Is constant light ok for sprouting seeds? And do they need a break once they've sprouted?