I came across the concept of "reference points" fairly late in my martial arts career. Drills with different starting points and angles, automatically progressing to one of several responses from a given position depending on the "energy" that your training partner gives you. This translates to both striking and grappling, and when you spar, you are moving from the reference point into a technique without conscious thought.
"Practice makes perfect"...unless its physical combat. I've always found that the best teacher isn't practice or muscle memory, but through physical experience. I can admit that BJJ was never my thing, preferring Judo and striking tactics to ground and pound preferred in BJJ. When it comes to lessons, though, I've always preferred sparring and demonstrations to drills. For me, its through demonstrations and sparring that you quickly learn whether the steps work for you or whether you need to find an alternate technique. I've been used as a test dummy numerous times, and I can swear that there is no faster way to learn a technique than having it explained while its being done to you.
This mornings class covered 4 techniques in an hour. We drilled each technique but there is no way I remember all the little details a few hours later. Worst trying the technique in a live roll right after learning them for the first time is not that simple for me. So, at this point I am thinking of getting a grappling dummy to drill more. But I see some are not convinced grappling dummies have any value.
One issue is that several things are all referred to as "drills". The main types of 'drills' I've found are 1) basic execution drills with varying levels of resistance. Here the partner does a pre-scripted action and more or less allows the trainee to succeed as long as they execute the action properly. These are good for a bit of mental prep, or as corrective measures, but I don't like to spend more than maybe 15 mins on this per lesson, or maybe until the student gets it close enough 3-5 times in a row. 2) contextual/scenario drills. This is basically figuring out what options to use in which scenario, this offers good return for intermediate students. The partner will run through different variations from some starting scenario, and the trainee must adapt to the action. It's best to keep this constrained to an action or two otherwise it becomes a flow drill and loses focus on the specific scenario you are working through. The goal is to help the student learn to recognize the situations that come from a start point, and figure out what their best options are. 3) scenario flow drills. You start in some specific scenario that needs work, and then work through it to the best of your ability, it isn't as constrained as the previous drill type, and as a result it's common to go through several scenarios in one 'rep' of the drill. Its usually helpful if the partner can force the scenarios that need the most amount of work so that the trainee can learn how they lead into each other. 3) Sparring/Freeplay. Similar to the previous, but basically undirected. Once someone (either the partner or a coach observing) notices some kind of recurring issue (say they see the same situation come up 3 times in a short period of time and one of the practitioners has no idea how to handle it) they can set them to the scenario context/flow drills depending on what is most appropriate, or go over the execution if the student lacks that ability. This is really a great diagnostic tool. 4) Bouting/Competition. Both opponents give their all to succeed in order to test each other's limits. This is a good tool for diagnosis of what areas need work, and should ideally be recorded. This is especially useful for more advanced students who have a more self directed approach to their training. 'a disciplined and repetitious exercise' really fails to address how there is a continuum between execution to bouting.
Drills are a common way to get the technique understood, become comfortable with the actions, and make it smooth. When Andre Glavao realised his book a few years back 'Drill to win' my coach and the higher belts didn't like it. They kept saying that the only to progress was rolling. A few of us started to turned up early to class early and drill. Needless to say we were still rolling at the end of class as well. After only a few weeks our passes were much better, our escapes actually worked, and we made a lot less mistakes in general. The drills really do work to help you get better, but if you are mindlessly drilling then there's no point. We'd drill a specific pass, escape, whatever, then make sure we were trying for it in all our rolls that session. Basically stagnant drills are of little use after you have the technique down, but drills are super important to help you improve faster. Rolling is useful, but if you are only ever doing the same things and not looking to use What you have been drilling then that won't help either. Positional sparring can also be extremely useful here. I used to hate it, but after a while you can see just How important it is as well.
Yes, I used to hate positional sparring. It felt like I was just getting smashed constantly. Now I love it, and coincidentally don't tap to pressure anywhere near as much... Galvao knows he stuff it seems, I may have to get his book.
@@EnglishMartialArts It is well worth the read, he points out that it's quite strange that traditional arts understand the importance of drilling but for some reason he needed to actually convince his students to do it. Other gyms didn't seem to like it either. Now its widely understood that you need to drill as part of your training. Great channel by the way, I'm a new subber, going though your back catalogue of great vids.
When I was practicing karate, we usually learned by practicing techniques as the defender and switching off to attacker. In Filipino arts we did many flow drills. The drill format was more efficient and beneficial for both participants in learning and maintaining the skills, though both require delivery with intent for good results, otherwise poor habits are formed. Fright Team!
With karate as with other striking arts such as fencing pads are necessary to efficiently learn the drills without pulling strikes, or being out of range.
Saw this answer coming and I would say that this 100% applies to strikers and weapon-based martial arts as well. I started striking just before covid, Mexican-style Boxing, Did it for six months, sparred like seven times, then lockdowns happened and the gym shut down for good. I practiced the drills they showed me for years, even threw in some Muay Thai drills, and the Muay Thai coach I have now said my form is very good, but when sparring, I barely hold a candle to most people whose form is not as good as mine. All that drilling did very little since I never got the chance to try it out live. so I think what you said applies to the other guys too.
I've spent a lot of time in BJJ trying to persuade people to move away from dead drilling towards drilling with progressive, intelligent resistance. There are all the points that you've mentioned, but also another, which is that (if people do believe in that kind of dead high rep drilling) it's actually hard to get in the high numbers of repetitions that people seem to aspire to. I think the biggest number of reps I've done of one technique was when a then coach wanted us to do a hundred armbars each in a session (it didn't make my armbar better, because essentially I was learning one angle, against zero resistance). It's more usual for people to get fewer than ten reps for each technique. I'd rather break a technique down into a series of key skills and isolate each with resistance.
Each step is a task, you can make and do all the steps into one task but your making the task more complex and difficult. Instead you separated your coaches task into separate smaller tasks, like steps, so each step has incredible quality so you can complete the task with greater quality and efficiency, would you say that’s correct? Hopefully I haven’t made it too convoluted of an explanation, I’m hoping I can have the ability to explain this to somebody when needed.
@@theyoungfool.1895 Pretty much. I'm trying to isolate each of the small fights you have on the way through a technique and then micro spar or drill with resistance, to get good at each of those fights. Take armbar from the guard using the corner lock/pit stop. I would work backwards, starting with an opponent on their back and a mostly extended arm, with them trying to hitchhiker, then I'd go back to hands together but them on their back, so I have to break the grip. Then back to the fight to roll them over. Then back to getting the foot over the head from the pitstop. Then getting into that corner lock position from the guard with a good angle and arm position. Then forcing those things from a more neutral position. One technique, but probably a whole night of active, interesting work.
Drilling is a constant part of all martial arts, as you said it is a way to make it so your instincts and muscle memory work faster and correctly as they will be used to the movements, this goes for both striking and grappling styles and includes weapons based martial arts as well, the sparring or rolling is where you go to pressure test the drill, because only in those uncomfortable situations when the opponent resists unusual situations may come up and it is by meeting, overcoming and adapting to circumstances which are impossible to constantly train that you get the details of what you should do, which is why it is said that drillers make killers but also that you only learn by rolling: one teaches you the stand alone technique and the other makes it so you absorb little details that are otherwise unnoticeable such as a slight position of the foot or the proper muscles you should contract when coming out of a situation where you’re pinned under a mount position for example.
I like this. I agree with this idea. I've noticed with my training, it becomes easier to do something if I do it again, but this time with a challenge. For example, I'll practice a combination, then practice it on a moving target, and then on a target striking back. Doing it while actively defending makes it feel more natural.
When I learned Judo & Jujutsu kata as a child I was taught it as a formal list of drills. This expands on this fundamental idea I was taught as a child. Conditioning whether classical or operant. In karate & kung fu the two person sets gets progressively complicated & longer the problem is often people do them without pads, so they have to pull their strikes, miss, or be out of range, distance, measure for safety, which makes the drill counter productive.
@@EnglishMartialArts that is due to ww2 us army occupation ban of budo. They made it a kyogi to make it legal. Yamaguchi the founder of Gojukai created the first point competition rules for karate to accomplish this.
I would say this is accurate for striking and weapons as well, at least for me. I'm of the belief that different people learn... Differently, and I've run into people who were hopeless without double the repetition, and the polar opposite. *Fight Team*
The best way to improve is to learn the basics and then go out and test yourself against other martial arts. martial arts have never been one way only, it's for fighting many different people. the fastest way is actual experience in combat, but also the hardest, which is why many don't go that way. Martial arts demands alot more than people realise.
@@EnglishMartialArts The reason i say best way is because martial arts are divided into styles, if you only have knowledge of one style you are severely limiting yourself. When i say test youself i mean spar people who practice different styles then yourself. I agree with you about changing your stances or your form to add new challenges, i just think its best to get that knowledge from different styles than your own.
Interesting video. I'm not a grappler so I can't really comment re that area of martial arts training. However, as a striker, I firmly believe that a technique needs to be drilled, LOTS, before applying it to a partner. I think that it's very important to develop a good foundation first. That said, I agree that partner training is also needed in order to put everything in context. Many thanks for another thought provoking video :)
This is what our coach (or sensei) taught us when I was practicing kenjistu. To actually make use of a kata for learning purposes, you don't just repeat it in the same way every time. No, you do it in as many different ways as possible. You do it normally, paying attention to being precise. Then you do it as fast as energetic as it gets. You do it in a very low and wide stance (which trains the strength and flexibility of your legs), both in slow and fast variations. You do it on uneven ground instead of a flat surface. You do it with a 4 kg steel thing instead of your usual bokken. And so on and so forth. Then you actually learn patterns of movement applicable to different conditions, not just one particular dance.
Ok Here's how I think the basis of grappling drilling should be, Lou Thesz/Tragos style. Start drilling with these positions, starting with defensive escape and simultaneous learning the offense/top position but probably learning to escape first, not necessarily in any order. 1) Mount escape/Mount 2) Front quarter position escape 3) Turtle/Rear naked Choke defense and escape/Front Headlock 4) Guillotine defense and escape from standing/Front Quarter/Guard/Cross Body. Then move out from there.
You can follow a simple progression at any range stating with: solid body mechanics, technique repetition & variety, drilling moves and combinations, flowing and flow sparring, isolated sparring, live sparring, fighting freely.... Good partners, opponents, and competition... 👊💀
Practice makes perfect through hard training regimen and not passive repetition. That is my experience in a nutshell, and lad you are not far off the mark. The scientific evidence you quoted has enlightened my humble self. Even an elderly gentlemen can learn anew. So I thank you for sharing your martial combat wisdom and for sharpening my wit. God bless you and family..
The students I always keep an eye out for are the ones that seemingly pick something up very quickly; often they're just good at mimicry and can understand the motions on a superficial level but can't apply them in different situations. The people who struggle to get a technique and who really have to hammer it into shape are the ones who will surprise you and pull something you taught them twelve months ago out of the bag when you're sparring.
the warthog and. gazelles theory in effect 👍 Hard won learning is deep learning . often natural fighters make poor coaches because it comes naturally so they never have to really have to work to understand the techniques to make them work. Respect to all.
True for striking. Also, doing it really really slow now and then helps. And visualization as well. I just started HEMA Sabre, and I’m in the overwhelmed stage
Fantastic vid as always and sweet Lego movie reference at the top. Drills for sure set the foundation and help lead to sparring easier but like you said a good "fight team" behind them is what makes a great fighter improve like another old saying "iron sharpens iron". Drills are a huge part of kickboxing, especially Dutch style. My boy Bazooka Joe Valtalini is posting great ones to try
Fright team… Great video!!! There is one more element to teaching skills: building self-efficacy. The belief that we can reliably do what we need to do. We will only do things under stress that we are confident will get us out of trouble. So we need to drill the muscle memory, then build the confidence that it will work. The whole goal of training should end up in the self-efficacy. So good training partners to drill with, and good partners to roll/spar with. The partners should respond with just enough difficulty that the skills advance but not too much where they lose belief in the technique. New practitioners need a lot of help with this because they don’t know what the moves feel like yet. Get them to trust a handful of techniques first.
Usually you need to drill outside of regular class times. In class the reps stays very low. Try doing hundreds of reps to one passing chain, makes a huge difference. Try putting a Gi on and go pass competitive black belts guard. Not going to happen if you dont know how to combain different passes. Drilling and sparring are both needed. Usually people just skip the drilling part. I am a huge advocate for drilling. Brown belt in BJJ under Alliance team.
Hate to say it, but pain is a great teacher. Since i fractured the top of my finger doing a poor sabre parry, the quality of my parrying has improved... Pain seems to rewire the brain incredibly fast.
There is at least one more big problem with set drills that sparring solves - it is one thing to know how to do a technique, it is quite another to know *when* to do it. And when to do it can get infinitely deep: if you have a technique that is used when an opponent makes a step with their right foot, you can do a great man things to make him step with that right foot (feints, pulls, feigning openings, etc) in addition to them doing it by themselves. This is a problem that more dedicated people doing Tai Chi (or most Chinese MAs) run into, even if they do physical conditioning and drills with resisting opponents they have a very wide repertoire of techniques without having the necessary insight into when to use them. And while that is the most obvious example, it doesn't mean any martial art is safe from the same issues, even if they are at a lower scale. Sparring isn't a solution to this, because it will overwhelm you with too many things that are suddenly possible - a dedicated person may get it eventually after a mountain of frustrations, but that's hardly an optimal way to do things. What I've found works fairly well is going from drills with decisions to restricted sparring. Drills with decisions are just that - I am going to do one of N things and you, my opponent, will have to react in a specific way to each one. Restricted sparring, on the other hand, is sparring with a limitation that pushes you to do an action, e.g. I will attack you with a variety of cuts and your goal is to retreat, defend and not let yourself be driven into a corner. Or to look at it another way, you should not go from drilling to sparring in one bold leap, you should be making a series of smaller, more precise steps.
that point you made at the end about how people with limited training opportunities might benefit from bunching them close together rather than spreading them out is something I haven't heard before. Good stuff. Fight team
As a former competitive amateur wrestler, I would say the correct answer to the question is "Yes, drillers make killers". It is an old mantra we used as the heart of our practice. "Drillers makes killers" is almost as synonymous with wrestling as the term "The Grind".
@@EnglishMartialArts I get your meaning after watching the video. But I've really never heard "drillers make killers" before. Could have been a reference to power tools.
speed is neurological, the way to get better at hitting a speedbag is to do it more frequently so you learn the movement pattern. Their is a falloff with more complex movement pattern. I have an acquaintance who claims to do 8,000 cuts a day with an 8 lb sword (he's obviously full of it, but he's bipolar so I bite my tongue) What I want to tell him is that his time would be spent practicing footwork, hitting the weights, or learning new combinations; but each of these elements in turn can be trained to improve performance under pressure. Break things down into the simplest components and drill those, then practice sequencing them together until they are so engrained that you can do it without thinking and make adjustments on the fly... same way you memorize and perform Shakespeare.
Frightfully good video! couple of comments: Drilling is good in that it is often possible to practice alone using various equipment wooden dummies various punch bags, resistance bands to make use of the time outside the dojo allowing more time for sparring and more complex drills when you have access to a partner. I like to work drills with touch triggers during solo work if possible, for example using a resistance band around the elbow to replicate a pull with initiates the reaction being drilled when a certain pressure is reached. with partner drilling It is important that the person doing the drill can ask the partner to set the level of resistance that the want. I recommend the book "flow" by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (that's a losing hand in scrabble for a name!!!) for an indepth discussion on optimal balance of challenge complexity vs skill level for maximum growth. Very good point about progressive drilling where the drill is done with increasing level of difficulty or variations in method. on a related topic Systema introduced me to the act of variation within conditioning exercises for example doing push ups but varying the position and structure of the body each time and running out doors over rough ground rather than on a tread mill to improve the flexibility of the joints and increase their working range. Respect to all.
I think bjj is so effective bc we are drilling the 6 or 7 fundamental movement: bridging, shrimping, shoulder stand etc... and based on them the same 10 types of technics with like ten trillion variations. So your brain just conects the dots ans getting a more flexible idea about what classifies as an armbar for example. So when we are getting comfortable with rolling we start to adding this technics however we can. And your body will quickly figure it out when your window of oppurtunity is opened and how can you make somthing that classifies as the move and possible at the moment. Sparring and rolling is necesarry but it is the drilling when you are figuring out how to do and when you can improve and trouble shot on your technics. Also i would argue that scenario based flow rolling is better to learn how to pull of your technics than actual rolling witch could be to wild, chaotic and sometimes both of you just can't make anything to happen. So in summary drillers make killers and you have to roll every time to keep it real. Theese two statement are not conradictory in my mind.
I see some of the comments below saying the best way to learn is to go up against other fighters, but they all overlook the fact that you have to practice the material first, and this video is stressing doing it in a fast way. For example, I doubt very seriously that a NASCAR driver never practiced driving, or an NBA player never practiced ball drills on the court. For myself, forms helped me immensely. They are drills, they get the repetition into your system, they have foot movement, they have cardio, they're great for flexibility, and there's probably other benefits that I over looked.
Absolutely! This is exactly how I structure learning a technique and drilling in class as often as possible.Break it into parts, do it in isolation for weapons/striking, then with little/no resistance, start adding more resistance/some variables, perhaps even a choice depending on what we're doing, and try to work it into sparring later. Pedagogically sound stuff. FRIGHT TEAM
You need reps, reps, reps. However, you have to enforce the correct technique and do reps with that. If you do reps with bad technique you'll only enforce bad habits and if you just don't get better, stronger, bigger, you'll get off easy. Sparring is quite different to drills. Edit: Also, FIGHT TEAM
Thank you mate. You put it in doing these videos. Don't want to blow trumpets or anything but there a coaches out there that should watch your stuff mate. I'm not well but this video had so many parallels with trying to get better it's amazing mate. I like the olde history stuff but it's just pure knowledge this channel. I've gone off looking for so much stuff after watching these I don't think you know. Feel like I'm texting you now. Soz. Great channel!!!!!!!! FRIGHT TEEAM
Great, video and well explained. I would say the same applies to weapons, however with an additional consideration to think about. First I would say someone needs a certain degree of skill wielding a weapon. It's hard to just go straight into drilling with another person (getting timing footwork etc right) if someone also hasn't drilled solo and got a basic grasp of how to move with a weapon. That said, I think same rules apply in terms of mixing it up with variations etc.
Long ago when I was studying aikido our instructor had an expression: “Learn and forget, learn and forget.” The point was to learn a technique but not get trapped into the exact way you first did the technique. Learn the core of the technique, the spirit, if you will. Aikido may be impractical, but in the process of practicing it I learned a lot of useful things in parallel. Thanks for a useful lesson on learning physical skills. Fright team!
the drill/roll dicothomy you present is definitely on point, although based on the title of the video, i would argue that to "learn martial arts", as a whole, first and foremost you must be able to produce the techniques with correct form, to then access "higher" and more complex exercises like drilling and sparring. the point you make i feel is more directed to mid to high level practicioners. i would much more have a beginner do an extra round of shadowboxing or practicing fundamental techniques in front of a mirror, or in simple patterns, than thrusting him into sparring or drills where he has much more variables to account for that could overwhelm and/or discourage him
I think that one of the biggest problems people new to grappling encounter is a complete unfamiliarity with how close and physical you have to get with people. Trying to talk someone through a triangle choke when they are completely unused to physical contact is interesting! So with that in mind I would always want to get people doing partner work of one kind or another ASAP. Obviously with striking it's a very different experience.
@@EnglishMartialArts well i guess i AM unfamiliar with grappling, will definitley have to plung that hole sooner or later. i didn't think about the complexity of grappling techniques, i imagined judo, where they have katas for some throws, but standing grappling movements and ground grappling can't really compare in terms of complexity of the moves
I think the only thing I’d add (which was sort of implied, but maybe not explicitly said) is the interface between these two modes of learning. I’ve met plenty of-often intermediate level-grapplers who assume that once they’ve achieved a smooth degree of drilling, there is never a real reason to return to drilling (outside of it being the class activity or something). I’ve found, at least personally, that I try to build up to a great level of drilling then toss it into live training. Often some part of that needs polish… back to drilling with an emphasis on the weakness. Or, perhaps, I want to get it from a different starting position… back to drilling. I just have run across a lot of guys that think they will “graduate” from drilling and I really don’t believe that to be true. I think drilling is really what increases technical knowledge while live sparring develops applied knowledge. I think in drilling we should strive to be as absolutely “perfect” as possible because the level of our application will naturally decrease when we meet resistance. So, for example, using totally arbitrary numbers, if we say that rolling with a certain person makes us 30% worse, our drilling needs to basically be 100% flawless to score even an average 70% throw/submission/hold, etc. This is not the greatest way to visualize it because it’s natural to wonder what a “120% flawless” drill would even look like. I think the point is still valid, though, drilling is really a vacuum for perfecting technique so as to mitigate the natural corrupting force of resistance on those technique. And when you are finding yourself outdone in a live situation you need to go back to the lab. Certain Japanese martial arts have entire classes based around this idea called “kenshu” which roughly translates to “research.” Thats personally how I imagine drilling. Just like you would hit the primary sources for history, drilling is the mechanism for technical research and deep dives. The live roll is the research paper itself. Maybe it’s just the draft and maybe an exam or comp is the final, but whatever the case may be, that’s sort of how I distinguish these things.
Cary Kolat made a good point that drill should be most of your training and doing live sparring should be done just to sharpen the edge of what you know. When i was in bjj we did 1 hour drill and 1 hour sparring. I found it a bit pointless to spar so much despite it being fun. I like to spar but if you cant drill what you like to do then you wont do it fast. When i trained with my friends we would learn, drill and then do technique specific sparring. Rarely did we do free sparring more than the others. I would practice techniques for hours in my yard before i went to class and i could hit the throws at a very high percentage. I liked uchi komi from judo. Its a great idea. I also like to drill a technique i like from offensive as well as defensive openings. Im sure this is why sakuraba was good with the double wrist lock. When you drill you learn how to do it quicker and quicker, and there is no limit to how good you can get. I know wade schalles was also very keen on drilling a technique so well that it couldnt be stopped.
Perhaps it's my wrestling background but I don't think BJJ drills enough. I love to roll, but if I want to learn from it in any depth I have to be disciplined enough to use it to practice things under genuine pressure. Either defence and escapes against the higher grades, or offense against the lower. Usually I just roll and do the same stuff as always...
Great breakdown. The grappling cognoscenti in judo/wrestling/bjj all understand that there’s drilling that exists part way between pure drilling and live rolling- when I teach I call it “dynamic drilling”- for example sweep for sweep back and forth, or pass and recover with 10-30% resistance. I also call it cooperative drilling, and it’s a skill that requires practice between team mates… A) Practising B) how to practise in order C) improve the game.
I like to think there's a continuum that goes from static drills, through dynamic drills, flow rolling, and true rolling. That being said I'm a big fan of looping drills that take you back to the start. If for nothing else but fitness.
I think drilling is useful when having to learn physical skills that are initially counter intuitive. Linear fencing footwork for example is not natural, no one really grows up with that footwork skill ingrained. Its anti-Human nature and optimal the that tradition of swordsmanship, but in order to acquire it you have to drill it ad nauseum until you are sick of it and then train it some more until you forget you ever had to learn it in the first place. Same goes with learning to thrust rather than merely stabbing and parrying rather than merely blocking. None of these are natural human physical motions. But merely drilling patterns and repetitions does not a fencer make, even if drilled endlessly, because you need to learn to do it against a resisting opponent who will make it harder to keep maintain those acquired skills under ever changing conditions, because it's here that you lean conscious tactics and sub-conscious intuition that allows you to read the situation moment to moment. That being said, some of the most under-wealming fencers in the past were paradoxically those that were trained in the military: many were drilled text book style "fencer A does this fencer B does this" endlessly, which was great for drilling large numbers of men for close order formations and for unit discipline, reaaly bad for creating actual swordsmen. In 19th century France it was a running joke that a military swordsman with aspirations of being a fencer had to be trained thrice - once by a drill Sergeant, then again by a fencing master to teach him some tactical acumen, and then once again by fencing master who had actually fought duels to jettison all the pretty salle play that would get him killed. So yes, Drilling has its place, so does sparring, and so does real life violence.
Dance and in particular, modern ballet, has some insights. They "drill" but only in short bursts but one class after another comes back to the same technique. And within a class different exercises introduce variations on particular techniques. There is, of course, no resistence training but the pedagogy seems to work. Hunch, also, is that the music has its part, practicing to a rhythmn sort of embeds the technique.
@@EnglishMartialArts I do draw the line at Leonard Cohen or Lady Gaga... I'm not sure, music in a martial context would work but it sorta helps. I think it works at a psychological level: if we like it, if we gain something of pleasure we are drawn to practice? Gets the thinking, critical mind in abeyance. Came up to day as the whole class sort of drew in breath at something and then the instructor advised: "think of something you like".. not sure a post class bag of M&S mini Jaffa cakes counted.
Honestly, just drilling without any added depth does nothing for the fighter but make them more confused. When I first started wrestling my defense was good but my offense was terrible until I went home and broke it down for myself. Which is what you should do, but the point of practice is to get better. I think some instructors have done it for so long they forgot what its like to be new, so they suck at teaching newbies who are just trying it out and you have to teach yourself before you actually get what they're saying to you.
I think that's a pretty damning indictment on your coach. If the drills they are making you do make you more confused rather than less then there's a problem.
In my experience I think you’re bang on. What you should cover next is the balance. Drilling v Sparring. I think it should be 5/6 drilling and 1/6 sparring. What do you think?
I teach my students with repetition drills in striking , throwing and grappling . We also spar in striking, grappling and throwing. Would you please do a video on aiming punches and kicks for accuracy and power.
FRIGHT TEAM! I kind of feel like the divide between drilling and sparring (or rolling) is a false dichotomy. Reality is analog, not digital. There's a spectrum there that I think is a useful tool for learning new techniques. I use similar ideas when tutoring folks in math, going slowly from really basic fundamentals then slowly building to real world examples/the dreaded "word problem"
People learn in so many different ways but I'm definitely a driller when it comes to striking. I do my forms, I do my drills and then I play with variation. For grappling though, I learn better by feeling. I drill but sparring is how I learn best in grappling. So in short I do both. 😅
@@EnglishMartialArts honestly I don't find grappling all that complicated. The body moves a certain way, bend it the other way. My opinion is that in grappling it's haptic information, position, weight, balance that's feeding you information instead of your eyes. How I was taught is that your opponent will give you the technique you want if you are aware enough to take advantage. But grappling is my weakest skill, so maybe I'm wrong.
I think all martial arts are guilty from over drilling. These movement solutions even when applied in time against a resistant opponent don't always work as there are too many variables. Strength, cardio and aggression tend to count for more if your about to get submitted same as someone outsriking you, in this instance muscle memory helps but not always.
The one thing that I don't think you addressed here is what I'll call experience parity. This progressive drilling scenario and even rolling seem predicated on two different opponent skill sets. As you are drilling and progress to wanting more resistance that is dependent on a somewhat experienced partner to know how much is required. Whereas in sparring if you are consistently rolling with more experienced people your most likely just getting smashed repeatedly and your techniques aren't working. To explain it differently, you aren't pulling off the armbar as a whitebelt when you're rolling against blue and purple belts, but drilling with them will benefit you more so how does that part of the equation fit into this? #frightteam
Good question. Obviously thr ideal is that you roll with people better, and people worse. But in reality that isn't always possible. Especially early on in training.
@@EnglishMartialArts The one that I saw some time ago was "Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect." While on it's face that's ridiculous what I think it means here is that since training doesn't happen in a vacuum it's about the right partners and mindsets to help everyone get the most out of it. Two white belts drilling sloppy arm bars can drill until the cows come home and not get better.
Katas are nothing more than drilling with a fancy name. I learned how to throw kicks I learned how to throw punches learned how to block and I even had to stand through katas. But I learned more in both jujitsu and striking by getting in there and going up against either resisting opponents or getting into street fights. Maybe I'm an outlier. Fright team! Talk to text with an American Southern drawl sucks.
Pedagogy in bjj seems generally really bad except for people like SBG who have clearly thought about how to go about teaching. There's a huge gap between drilling and sparring that most schools don't recognise and develop effective exercises for.
@@EnglishMartialArts yeah it's a similar contradiction as your learn through drilling v rolling. The narrative is bjj is effective because you do live sparring but their teaching pedagogy comes from traditional martial arts of drilling with no resistance. I've gotten so annoyed about this I've started to think bjj is really bad value for money. At least it is in the big commercial Gracie Barra type gyms.
Funny, but you have pointed a finger at one of the greatest issues in Aikido schools, which drives me CRAZY 🥴 to this day. In a 2 hour session (with 40 min warmup) , they teach you 4 - 5 patterns with 10 minutes (5 per person) to practice them. One comes out of the session with a complete mess in the head and really struggle to repeat any of the techniques properly even an hour later. And it might be days before one gets another session on those techniques. or their variations 🤷♂ It makes most of those things inapplicable in practice 😔
You make the mistake of mixing up drilling with sparring, there is no sport in martial arts ( however good you are at them) Napoleon and Wellington didn't spar at Waterloo . They took form that had been well drilled and then went to war . Sparring is for sport , whilst drilling is for real martial art. Tim
@@EnglishMartialArts yes It becomes combat and the art is gone . I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying there different . Respectfully Tim
Good morning Sir. Sparring Makes fighting seem safe ,whilst removing the danger of a real fight. One plays when one spars whilst there is no real harm done. However if one ever has to fight for real , there is going to be dangerous activity . So really one should drill one technique in all seriousness to a point where one can depend on it . To spar is frivolity and playfulness , both of these are not attitudes one should adopt when facing danger . Cogito ergo sum Tim
@@timandjacquinicklin9596 I think we spar very differently. I've walked away from sparring with arms I can't straighten, black eyes, split lips, even broken bones. I've been choked out, strangled and dropped with one good punch. Obviously we aren't trying to kill each other, but the opportunity was there, we chose not to take it. There is a massive degree of trust involved in proper sparring.
A guy who thinks only striking is a valid martial art for “da streetz” has no business talking about how to deal with violence. The unpredictability of it is exactly the reason why. Let’s say a high level wrestler, or even a mediocre one, attacks Tate in the street. If he takes him down, Tate is screwed. So he better see it coming and he better be perfect and knock the guy out quick. Such arrogance. While knowing how to strike is necessary, it’s certainly not the only thing. Or even the most important thing. You can be a shitty striker and still knock someone out, but you’re not going to be a shitty grappler and escape or counter a good grappler
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA Finals D1 | Fall | ยิงต้องโหด ให้เหมือนโกรธกันมาก่อน](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OnTdfGySmds/mqdefault.jpg)
*Fright Team*
I came across the concept of "reference points" fairly late in my martial arts career.
Drills with different starting points and angles, automatically progressing to one of several responses from a given position depending on the "energy" that your training partner gives you.
This translates to both striking and grappling, and when you spar, you are moving from the reference point into a technique without conscious thought.
Yes, the nice mid point between learning an isolated technique and freeplay.
"Practice makes perfect"...unless its physical combat.
I've always found that the best teacher isn't practice or muscle memory, but through physical experience. I can admit that BJJ was never my thing, preferring Judo and striking tactics to ground and pound preferred in BJJ. When it comes to lessons, though, I've always preferred sparring and demonstrations to drills. For me, its through demonstrations and sparring that you quickly learn whether the steps work for you or whether you need to find an alternate technique. I've been used as a test dummy numerous times, and I can swear that there is no faster way to learn a technique than having it explained while its being done to you.
Yes, I like to feel the technique to understand it too.
This mornings class covered 4 techniques in an hour. We drilled each technique but there is no way I remember all the little details a few hours later. Worst trying the technique in a live roll right after learning them for the first time is not that simple for me. So, at this point I am thinking of getting a grappling dummy to drill more. But I see some are not convinced grappling dummies have any value.
I think that very much depends know how you use them. If you understand their limitations there is no reason they can't work.
I’ve found grappling dummies very effective in helping develop specific movement patterns
Use some overalls and a hoodie, filled with clothes.
Hi I use one at home, there very good for technique and muscle memory but that's it, you still need hard resistance when rolling.
One issue is that several things are all referred to as "drills".
The main types of 'drills' I've found are
1) basic execution drills with varying levels of resistance. Here the partner does a pre-scripted action and more or less allows the trainee to succeed as long as they execute the action properly. These are good for a bit of mental prep, or as corrective measures, but I don't like to spend more than maybe 15 mins on this per lesson, or maybe until the student gets it close enough 3-5 times in a row.
2) contextual/scenario drills. This is basically figuring out what options to use in which scenario, this offers good return for intermediate students. The partner will run through different variations from some starting scenario, and the trainee must adapt to the action. It's best to keep this constrained to an action or two otherwise it becomes a flow drill and loses focus on the specific scenario you are working through. The goal is to help the student learn to recognize the situations that come from a start point, and figure out what their best options are.
3) scenario flow drills. You start in some specific scenario that needs work, and then work through it to the best of your ability, it isn't as constrained as the previous drill type, and as a result it's common to go through several scenarios in one 'rep' of the drill. Its usually helpful if the partner can force the scenarios that need the most amount of work so that the trainee can learn how they lead into each other.
3) Sparring/Freeplay. Similar to the previous, but basically undirected. Once someone (either the partner or a coach observing) notices some kind of recurring issue (say they see the same situation come up 3 times in a short period of time and one of the practitioners has no idea how to handle it) they can set them to the scenario context/flow drills depending on what is most appropriate, or go over the execution if the student lacks that ability. This is really a great diagnostic tool.
4) Bouting/Competition. Both opponents give their all to succeed in order to test each other's limits. This is a good tool for diagnosis of what areas need work, and should ideally be recorded. This is especially useful for more advanced students who have a more self directed approach to their training.
'a disciplined and repetitious exercise' really fails to address how there is a continuum between execution to bouting.
Yes agreed!
Drills are a common way to get the technique understood, become comfortable with the actions, and make it smooth. When Andre Glavao realised his book a few years back 'Drill to win' my coach and the higher belts didn't like it. They kept saying that the only to progress was rolling. A few of us started to turned up early to class early and drill. Needless to say we were still rolling at the end of class as well. After only a few weeks our passes were much better, our escapes actually worked, and we made a lot less mistakes in general. The drills really do work to help you get better, but if you are mindlessly drilling then there's no point. We'd drill a specific pass, escape, whatever, then make sure we were trying for it in all our rolls that session. Basically stagnant drills are of little use after you have the technique down, but drills are super important to help you improve faster. Rolling is useful, but if you are only ever doing the same things and not looking to use What you have been drilling then that won't help either. Positional sparring can also be extremely useful here. I used to hate it, but after a while you can see just How important it is as well.
Yes, I used to hate positional sparring. It felt like I was just getting smashed constantly. Now I love it, and coincidentally don't tap to pressure anywhere near as much...
Galvao knows he stuff it seems, I may have to get his book.
@@EnglishMartialArts It is well worth the read, he points out that it's quite strange that traditional arts understand the importance of drilling but for some reason he needed to actually convince his students to do it. Other gyms didn't seem to like it either. Now its widely understood that you need to drill as part of your training.
Great channel by the way, I'm a new subber, going though your back catalogue of great vids.
@@nathanieltillman2355 Welcome to the fight team!
@@EnglishMartialArts I always make it to the end of your videos. #fightteam!
When I was practicing karate, we usually learned by practicing techniques as the defender and switching off to attacker. In Filipino arts we did many flow drills. The drill format was more efficient and beneficial for both participants in learning and maintaining the skills, though both require delivery with intent for good results, otherwise poor habits are formed. Fright Team!
Developing deliberate habits is essential. After all we default to our training whether it is good or bad...
With karate as with other striking arts such as fencing pads are necessary to efficiently learn the drills without pulling strikes, or being out of range.
Saw this answer coming and I would say that this 100% applies to strikers and weapon-based martial arts as well. I started striking just before covid, Mexican-style Boxing, Did it for six months, sparred like seven times, then lockdowns happened and the gym shut down for good. I practiced the drills they showed me for years, even threw in some Muay Thai drills, and the Muay Thai coach I have now said my form is very good, but when sparring, I barely hold a candle to most people whose form is not as good as mine. All that drilling did very little since I never got the chance to try it out live. so I think what you said applies to the other guys too.
I've spent a lot of time in BJJ trying to persuade people to move away from dead drilling towards drilling with progressive, intelligent resistance. There are all the points that you've mentioned, but also another, which is that (if people do believe in that kind of dead high rep drilling) it's actually hard to get in the high numbers of repetitions that people seem to aspire to. I think the biggest number of reps I've done of one technique was when a then coach wanted us to do a hundred armbars each in a session (it didn't make my armbar better, because essentially I was learning one angle, against zero resistance). It's more usual for people to get fewer than ten reps for each technique. I'd rather break a technique down into a series of key skills and isolate each with resistance.
Absolutely agree.
Each step is a task, you can make and do all the steps into one task but your making the task more complex and difficult.
Instead you separated your coaches task into separate smaller tasks, like steps, so each step has incredible quality so you can complete the task with greater quality and efficiency, would you say that’s correct? Hopefully I haven’t made it too convoluted of an explanation, I’m hoping I can have the ability to explain this to somebody when needed.
@@theyoungfool.1895 Pretty much. I'm trying to isolate each of the small fights you have on the way through a technique and then micro spar or drill with resistance, to get good at each of those fights. Take armbar from the guard using the corner lock/pit stop. I would work backwards, starting with an opponent on their back and a mostly extended arm, with them trying to hitchhiker, then I'd go back to hands together but them on their back, so I have to break the grip. Then back to the fight to roll them over. Then back to getting the foot over the head from the pitstop. Then getting into that corner lock position from the guard with a good angle and arm position. Then forcing those things from a more neutral position. One technique, but probably a whole night of active, interesting work.
Drilling is a constant part of all martial arts, as you said it is a way to make it so your instincts and muscle memory work faster and correctly as they will be used to the movements, this goes for both striking and grappling styles and includes weapons based martial arts as well, the sparring or rolling is where you go to pressure test the drill, because only in those uncomfortable situations when the opponent resists unusual situations may come up and it is by meeting, overcoming and adapting to circumstances which are impossible to constantly train that you get the details of what you should do, which is why it is said that drillers make killers but also that you only learn by rolling: one teaches you the stand alone technique and the other makes it so you absorb little details that are otherwise unnoticeable such as a slight position of the foot or the proper muscles you should contract when coming out of a situation where you’re pinned under a mount position for example.
I like this. I agree with this idea. I've noticed with my training, it becomes easier to do something if I do it again, but this time with a challenge. For example, I'll practice a combination, then practice it on a moving target, and then on a target striking back. Doing it while actively defending makes it feel more natural.
Yes, lovely example!
That’s such an amazing example!
When I learned Judo & Jujutsu kata as a child I was taught it as a formal list of drills. This expands on this fundamental idea I was taught as a child. Conditioning whether classical or operant. In karate & kung fu the two person sets gets progressively complicated & longer the problem is often people do them without pads, so they have to pull their strikes, miss, or be out of range, distance, measure for safety, which makes the drill counter productive.
Yes, when I did Shotokan I always struggled with the concept of training myself to not quite punch people.
@@EnglishMartialArts that is due to ww2 us army occupation ban of budo. They made it a kyogi to make it legal. Yamaguchi the founder of Gojukai created the first point competition rules for karate to accomplish this.
I would say this is accurate for striking and weapons as well, at least for me.
I'm of the belief that different people learn... Differently, and I've run into people who were hopeless without double the repetition, and the polar opposite.
*Fight Team*
Yes, there's gonna be a big variation.
The best way to improve is to learn the basics and then go out and test yourself against other martial arts. martial arts have never been one way only, it's for fighting many different people. the fastest way is actual experience in combat, but also the hardest, which is why many don't go that way. Martial arts demands alot more than people realise.
I'm not sure I agree that the best way is to go out and test yourself. It's definitely part of the process, but the best way? I'm not sure.
@@EnglishMartialArts The reason i say best way is because martial arts are divided into styles, if you only have knowledge of one style you are severely limiting yourself. When i say test youself i mean spar people who practice different styles then yourself. I agree with you about changing your stances or your form to add new challenges, i just think its best to get that knowledge from different styles than your own.
Interesting video. I'm not a grappler so I can't really comment re that area of martial arts training. However, as a striker, I firmly believe that a technique needs to be drilled, LOTS, before applying it to a partner. I think that it's very important to develop a good foundation first. That said, I agree that partner training is also needed in order to put everything in context. Many thanks for another thought provoking video :)
This is what our coach (or sensei) taught us when I was practicing kenjistu.
To actually make use of a kata for learning purposes, you don't just repeat it in the same way every time. No, you do it in as many different ways as possible. You do it normally, paying attention to being precise. Then you do it as fast as energetic as it gets. You do it in a very low and wide stance (which trains the strength and flexibility of your legs), both in slow and fast variations. You do it on uneven ground instead of a flat surface. You do it with a 4 kg steel thing instead of your usual bokken. And so on and so forth.
Then you actually learn patterns of movement applicable to different conditions, not just one particular dance.
Ok Here's how I think the basis of grappling drilling should be, Lou Thesz/Tragos style. Start drilling with these positions, starting with defensive escape and simultaneous learning the offense/top position but probably learning to escape first, not necessarily in any order. 1) Mount escape/Mount 2) Front quarter position escape 3) Turtle/Rear naked Choke defense and escape/Front Headlock 4) Guillotine defense and escape from standing/Front Quarter/Guard/Cross Body. Then move out from there.
You can follow a simple progression at any range stating with: solid body mechanics, technique repetition & variety, drilling moves and combinations, flowing and flow sparring, isolated sparring, live sparring, fighting freely.... Good partners, opponents, and competition... 👊💀
Practice makes perfect through hard training regimen and not passive repetition. That is my experience in a nutshell, and lad you are not far off the mark. The scientific evidence you quoted has enlightened my humble self. Even an elderly gentlemen can learn anew. So I thank you for sharing your martial combat wisdom and for sharpening my wit. God bless you and family..
Thanks Fred!
The students I always keep an eye out for are the ones that seemingly pick something up very quickly; often they're just good at mimicry and can understand the motions on a superficial level but can't apply them in different situations. The people who struggle to get a technique and who really have to hammer it into shape are the ones who will surprise you and pull something you taught them twelve months ago out of the bag when you're sparring.
the warthog and. gazelles theory in effect 👍 Hard won learning is deep learning . often natural fighters make poor coaches because it comes naturally so they never have to really have to work to understand the techniques to make them work. Respect to all.
True for striking.
Also, doing it really really slow now and then helps.
And visualization as well.
I just started HEMA Sabre, and I’m in the overwhelmed stage
Sabre is an interesting one. A very limited number of techniques, and a lifetime to perfect them...
@@EnglishMartialArts
It’s driving my JKD motor skills crazy with so much indirect movement, it feels so wrong…
JKD has me more wired for Rapier’
Fantastic vid as always and sweet Lego movie reference at the top. Drills for sure set the foundation and help lead to sparring easier but like you said a good "fight team" behind them is what makes a great fighter improve like another old saying "iron sharpens iron".
Drills are a huge part of kickboxing, especially Dutch style. My boy Bazooka Joe Valtalini is posting great ones to try
Fright team…
Great video!!!
There is one more element to teaching skills: building self-efficacy. The belief that we can reliably do what we need to do.
We will only do things under stress that we are confident will get us out of trouble. So we need to drill the muscle memory, then build the confidence that it will work. The whole goal of training should end up in the self-efficacy. So good training partners to drill with, and good partners to roll/spar with. The partners should respond with just enough difficulty that the skills advance but not too much where they lose belief in the technique.
New practitioners need a lot of help with this because they don’t know what the moves feel like yet. Get them to trust a handful of techniques first.
Absolutely!
Usually you need to drill outside of regular class times. In class the reps stays very low. Try doing hundreds of reps to one passing chain, makes a huge difference.
Try putting a Gi on and go pass competitive black belts guard. Not going to happen if you dont know how to combain different passes.
Drilling and sparring are both needed. Usually people just skip the drilling part.
I am a huge advocate for drilling. Brown belt in BJJ under Alliance team.
Hate to say it, but pain is a great teacher.
Since i fractured the top of my finger doing a poor sabre parry, the quality of my parrying has improved...
Pain seems to rewire the brain incredibly fast.
Yes, but not really an ethical way to teach! 🤣
There is at least one more big problem with set drills that sparring solves - it is one thing to know how to do a technique, it is quite another to know *when* to do it. And when to do it can get infinitely deep: if you have a technique that is used when an opponent makes a step with their right foot, you can do a great man things to make him step with that right foot (feints, pulls, feigning openings, etc) in addition to them doing it by themselves.
This is a problem that more dedicated people doing Tai Chi (or most Chinese MAs) run into, even if they do physical conditioning and drills with resisting opponents they have a very wide repertoire of techniques without having the necessary insight into when to use them. And while that is the most obvious example, it doesn't mean any martial art is safe from the same issues, even if they are at a lower scale.
Sparring isn't a solution to this, because it will overwhelm you with too many things that are suddenly possible - a dedicated person may get it eventually after a mountain of frustrations, but that's hardly an optimal way to do things. What I've found works fairly well is going from drills with decisions to restricted sparring. Drills with decisions are just that - I am going to do one of N things and you, my opponent, will have to react in a specific way to each one. Restricted sparring, on the other hand, is sparring with a limitation that pushes you to do an action, e.g. I will attack you with a variety of cuts and your goal is to retreat, defend and not let yourself be driven into a corner.
Or to look at it another way, you should not go from drilling to sparring in one bold leap, you should be making a series of smaller, more precise steps.
Fright team. Love the content. You are one of the few channels that I consider a “go to” channel for straight direct informative content.
It's a bit sad that that isn't the baseline!
that point you made at the end about how people with limited training opportunities might benefit from bunching them close together rather than spreading them out is something I haven't heard before. Good stuff.
Fight team
It surprised me when I read it too! I'd love to know how much of a difference it makes in practice.
As a former competitive amateur wrestler, I would say the correct answer to the question is "Yes, drillers make killers". It is an old mantra we used as the heart of our practice. "Drillers makes killers" is almost as synonymous with wrestling as the term "The Grind".
Yes indeed. It probably applies more in wrestling than anywhere else.
Never heard "drillers make killers" before. But last time I checked, "experience is the best teacher."
It certainly can be, but it might be teaching things that aren't helpful.
@@EnglishMartialArts I get your meaning after watching the video. But I've really never heard "drillers make killers" before. Could have been a reference to power tools.
speed is neurological, the way to get better at hitting a speedbag is to do it more frequently so you learn the movement pattern. Their is a falloff with more complex movement pattern. I have an acquaintance who claims to do 8,000 cuts a day with an 8 lb sword (he's obviously full of it, but he's bipolar so I bite my tongue) What I want to tell him is that his time would be spent practicing footwork, hitting the weights, or learning new combinations; but each of these elements in turn can be trained to improve performance under pressure. Break things down into the simplest components and drill those, then practice sequencing them together until they are so engrained that you can do it without thinking and make adjustments on the fly... same way you memorize and perform Shakespeare.
Damn props to the voice actor. Your lip syncing skills are superb sir!
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Frightfully good video! couple of comments: Drilling is good in that it is often possible to practice alone using various equipment wooden dummies various punch bags, resistance bands to make use of the time outside the dojo allowing more time for sparring and more complex drills when you have access to a partner. I like to work drills with touch triggers during solo work if possible, for example using a resistance band around the elbow to replicate a pull with initiates the reaction being drilled when a certain pressure is reached. with partner drilling It is important that the person doing the drill can ask the partner to set the level of resistance that the want. I recommend the book "flow" by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (that's a losing hand in scrabble for a name!!!) for an indepth discussion on optimal balance of challenge complexity vs skill level for maximum growth. Very good point about progressive drilling where the drill is done with increasing level of difficulty or variations in method. on a related topic Systema introduced me to the act of variation within conditioning exercises for example doing push ups but varying the position and structure of the body each time and running out doors over rough ground rather than on a tread mill to improve the flexibility of the joints and increase their working range. Respect to all.
Absolutely brilliant
I think bjj is so effective bc we are drilling the 6 or 7 fundamental movement: bridging, shrimping, shoulder stand etc... and based on them the same 10 types of technics with like ten trillion variations.
So your brain just conects the dots ans getting a more flexible idea about what classifies as an armbar for example.
So when we are getting comfortable with rolling we start to adding this technics however we can. And your body will quickly figure it out when your window of oppurtunity is opened and how can you make somthing that classifies as the move and possible at the moment.
Sparring and rolling is necesarry but it is the drilling when you are figuring out how to do and when you can improve and trouble shot on your technics.
Also i would argue that scenario based flow rolling is better to learn how to pull of your technics than actual rolling witch could be to wild, chaotic and sometimes both of you just can't make anything to happen.
So in summary drillers make killers and you have to roll every time to keep it real. Theese two statement are not conradictory in my mind.
I see some of the comments below saying the best way to learn is to go up against other fighters, but they all overlook the fact that you have to practice the material first, and this video is stressing doing it in a fast way.
For example, I doubt very seriously that a NASCAR driver never practiced driving, or an NBA player never practiced ball drills on the court.
For myself, forms helped me immensely. They are drills, they get the repetition into your system, they have foot movement, they have cardio, they're great for flexibility, and there's probably other benefits that I over looked.
I almost see forms as a form of visualisation technique. Maybe that's a video...
Absolutely! This is exactly how I structure learning a technique and drilling in class as often as possible.Break it into parts, do it in isolation for weapons/striking, then with little/no resistance, start adding more resistance/some variables, perhaps even a choice depending on what we're doing, and try to work it into sparring later. Pedagogically sound stuff. FRIGHT TEAM
Sounds like you run a great class!
@@EnglishMartialArts I attempt to!
Fright team! Great video Oz, really interesting. I’m going to try this with a combination this week :)
Let me know how it goes!
You need reps, reps, reps.
However, you have to enforce the correct technique and do reps with that. If you do reps with bad technique you'll only enforce bad habits and if you just don't get better, stronger, bigger, you'll get off easy.
Sparring is quite different to drills.
Edit:
Also, FIGHT TEAM
Your videos are well good mate. I love the history the most. Your top tier when it comes to that. Great channel. Stay safe. Fight team.
Thank you!
Thank you mate. You put it in doing these videos. Don't want to blow trumpets or anything but there a coaches out there that should watch your stuff mate. I'm not well but this video had so many parallels with trying to get better it's amazing mate. I like the olde history stuff but it's just pure knowledge this channel. I've gone off looking for so much stuff after watching these I don't think you know. Feel like I'm texting you now. Soz. Great channel!!!!!!!! FRIGHT TEEAM
Great, video and well explained. I would say the same applies to weapons, however with an additional consideration to think about. First I would say someone needs a certain degree of skill wielding a weapon. It's hard to just go straight into drilling with another person (getting timing footwork etc right) if someone also hasn't drilled solo and got a basic grasp of how to move with a weapon. That said, I think same rules apply in terms of mixing it up with variations etc.
Very good point.
Long ago when I was studying aikido our instructor had an expression: “Learn and forget, learn and forget.” The point was to learn a technique but not get trapped into the exact way you first did the technique. Learn the core of the technique, the spirit, if you will.
Aikido may be impractical, but in the process of practicing it I learned a lot of useful things in parallel.
Thanks for a useful lesson on learning physical skills.
Fright team!
That's a nice concept, takes the stress out of the urge to remember everything too.
the drill/roll dicothomy you present is definitely on point, although based on the title of the video, i would argue that to "learn martial arts", as a whole, first and foremost you must be able to produce the techniques with correct form, to then access "higher" and more complex exercises like drilling and sparring. the point you make i feel is more directed to mid to high level practicioners.
i would much more have a beginner do an extra round of shadowboxing or practicing fundamental techniques in front of a mirror, or in simple patterns, than thrusting him into sparring or drills where he has much more variables to account for that could overwhelm and/or discourage him
I think that one of the biggest problems people new to grappling encounter is a complete unfamiliarity with how close and physical you have to get with people. Trying to talk someone through a triangle choke when they are completely unused to physical contact is interesting! So with that in mind I would always want to get people doing partner work of one kind or another ASAP. Obviously with striking it's a very different experience.
@@EnglishMartialArts well i guess i AM unfamiliar with grappling, will definitley have to plung that hole sooner or later. i didn't think about the complexity of grappling techniques, i imagined judo, where they have katas for some throws, but standing grappling movements and ground grappling can't really compare in terms of complexity of the moves
I think the only thing I’d add (which was sort of implied, but maybe not explicitly said) is the interface between these two modes of learning. I’ve met plenty of-often intermediate level-grapplers who assume that once they’ve achieved a smooth degree of drilling, there is never a real reason to return to drilling (outside of it being the class activity or something).
I’ve found, at least personally, that I try to build up to a great level of drilling then toss it into live training. Often some part of that needs polish… back to drilling with an emphasis on the weakness. Or, perhaps, I want to get it from a different starting position… back to drilling.
I just have run across a lot of guys that think they will “graduate” from drilling and I really don’t believe that to be true. I think drilling is really what increases technical knowledge while live sparring develops applied knowledge. I think in drilling we should strive to be as absolutely “perfect” as possible because the level of our application will naturally decrease when we meet resistance.
So, for example, using totally arbitrary numbers, if we say that rolling with a certain person makes us 30% worse, our drilling needs to basically be 100% flawless to score even an average 70% throw/submission/hold, etc. This is not the greatest way to visualize it because it’s natural to wonder what a “120% flawless” drill would even look like. I think the point is still valid, though, drilling is really a vacuum for perfecting technique so as to mitigate the natural corrupting force of resistance on those technique. And when you are finding yourself outdone in a live situation you need to go back to the lab.
Certain Japanese martial arts have entire classes based around this idea called “kenshu” which roughly translates to “research.” Thats personally how I imagine drilling. Just like you would hit the primary sources for history, drilling is the mechanism for technical research and deep dives. The live roll is the research paper itself. Maybe it’s just the draft and maybe an exam or comp is the final, but whatever the case may be, that’s sort of how I distinguish these things.
Cary Kolat made a good point that drill should be most of your training and doing live sparring should be done just to sharpen the edge of what you know. When i was in bjj we did 1 hour drill and 1 hour sparring. I found it a bit pointless to spar so much despite it being fun. I like to spar but if you cant drill what you like to do then you wont do it fast. When i trained with my friends we would learn, drill and then do technique specific sparring. Rarely did we do free sparring more than the others. I would practice techniques for hours in my yard before i went to class and i could hit the throws at a very high percentage. I liked uchi komi from judo. Its a great idea. I also like to drill a technique i like from offensive as well as defensive openings. Im sure this is why sakuraba was good with the double wrist lock. When you drill you learn how to do it quicker and quicker, and there is no limit to how good you can get. I know wade schalles was also very keen on drilling a technique so well that it couldnt be stopped.
Perhaps it's my wrestling background but I don't think BJJ drills enough. I love to roll, but if I want to learn from it in any depth I have to be disciplined enough to use it to practice things under genuine pressure. Either defence and escapes against the higher grades, or offense against the lower.
Usually I just roll and do the same stuff as always...
Great breakdown. The grappling cognoscenti in judo/wrestling/bjj all understand that there’s drilling that exists part way between pure drilling and live rolling- when I teach I call it “dynamic drilling”- for example sweep for sweep back and forth, or pass and recover with 10-30% resistance. I also call it cooperative drilling, and it’s a skill that requires practice between team mates… A) Practising B) how to practise in order C) improve the game.
French randori is the term I've heard in judo for a somewhat relaxed, throw-for-throw style of training.
I like to think there's a continuum that goes from static drills, through dynamic drills, flow rolling, and true rolling. That being said I'm a big fan of looping drills that take you back to the start. If for nothing else but fitness.
I think drilling is useful when having to learn physical skills that are initially counter intuitive. Linear fencing footwork for example is not natural, no one really grows up with that footwork skill ingrained. Its anti-Human nature and optimal the that tradition of swordsmanship, but in order to acquire it you have to drill it ad nauseum until you are sick of it and then train it some more until you forget you ever had to learn it in the first place. Same goes with learning to thrust rather than merely stabbing and parrying rather than merely blocking. None of these are natural human physical motions.
But merely drilling patterns and repetitions does not a fencer make, even if drilled endlessly, because you need to learn to do it against a resisting opponent who will make it harder to keep maintain those acquired skills under ever changing conditions, because it's here that you lean conscious tactics and sub-conscious intuition that allows you to read the situation moment to moment.
That being said, some of the most under-wealming fencers in the past were paradoxically those that were trained in the military: many were drilled text book style "fencer A does this fencer B does this" endlessly, which was great for drilling large numbers of men for close order formations and for unit discipline, reaaly bad for creating actual swordsmen. In 19th century France it was a running joke that a military swordsman with aspirations of being a fencer had to be trained thrice - once by a drill Sergeant, then again by a fencing master to teach him some tactical acumen, and then once again by fencing master who had actually fought duels to jettison all the pretty salle play that would get him killed.
So yes, Drilling has its place, so does sparring, and so does real life violence.
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Another good one! I have that book by the way!
Drilling made me progress fast and actual comppetision made me have confedence to do the skills hehein both bjj kali boxing
Thanks!
Dance and in particular, modern ballet, has some insights. They "drill" but only in short bursts but one class after another comes back to the same technique. And within a class different exercises introduce variations on particular techniques. There is, of course, no resistence training but the pedagogy seems to work. Hunch, also, is that the music has its part, practicing to a rhythmn sort of embeds the technique.
That's a very good shout. Now I'm wondering if we should be drilling to music, and ensuring its consistent. Each move gets its own music!
@@EnglishMartialArts I do draw the line at Leonard Cohen or Lady Gaga... I'm not sure, music in a martial context would work but it sorta helps. I think it works at a psychological level: if we like it, if we gain something of pleasure we are drawn to practice? Gets the thinking, critical mind in abeyance. Came up to day as the whole class sort of drew in breath at something and then the instructor advised: "think of something you like".. not sure a post class bag of M&S mini Jaffa cakes counted.
... but we did get Spice Girls. I'm undecided about that.
Handel would have been better.
@@Yeknodathon I often get them confused...
Honestly, just drilling without any added depth does nothing for the fighter but make them more confused. When I first started wrestling my defense was good but my offense was terrible until I went home and broke it down for myself. Which is what you should do, but the point of practice is to get better. I think some instructors have done it for so long they forgot what its like to be new, so they suck at teaching newbies who are just trying it out and you have to teach yourself before you actually get what they're saying to you.
I think that's a pretty damning indictment on your coach. If the drills they are making you do make you more confused rather than less then there's a problem.
Cary Kolat (was in the US national wrestling team) said something similar.
In my experience I think you’re bang on. What you should cover next is the balance. Drilling v Sparring. I think it should be 5/6 drilling and 1/6 sparring. What do you think?
That's a really interesting question. I need to think on that...
I teach my students with repetition drills in striking , throwing and grappling . We also spar in striking, grappling and throwing. Would you please do a video on aiming punches and kicks for accuracy and power.
Fright Team 😂. I train Thu and Sat and definitely pick up more nuances at the Sat class.
Interesting!
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I kind of feel like the divide between drilling and sparring (or rolling) is a false dichotomy. Reality is analog, not digital. There's a spectrum there that I think is a useful tool for learning new techniques. I use similar ideas when tutoring folks in math, going slowly from really basic fundamentals then slowly building to real world examples/the dreaded "word problem"
Interestingly the Professor whose definition I used was also a mathematician first and foremost.
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It's mid January, but ok I'll go with it...
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People learn in so many different ways but I'm definitely a driller when it comes to striking. I do my forms, I do my drills and then I play with variation. For grappling though, I learn better by feeling. I drill but sparring is how I learn best in grappling. So in short I do both. 😅
Could that simply be a reflection of the added complexity of grappling?
@@EnglishMartialArts honestly I don't find grappling all that complicated. The body moves a certain way, bend it the other way. My opinion is that in grappling it's haptic information, position, weight, balance that's feeding you information instead of your eyes. How I was taught is that your opponent will give you the technique you want if you are aware enough to take advantage. But grappling is my weakest skill, so maybe I'm wrong.
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Wrestlers are great at grappling since 90% of their time training is progressive drills.
Is my bias showing? 😃
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Legitimately thought this was going to be about Deep Rock Galactic. Rock and stone... I mean fight team!
Fright team.
I don’t have anything constructive to add, I just like the pun.
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I think all martial arts are guilty from over drilling. These movement solutions even when applied in time against a resistant opponent don't always work as there are too many variables. Strength, cardio and aggression tend to count for more if your about to get submitted same as someone outsriking you, in this instance muscle memory helps but not always.
The one thing that I don't think you addressed here is what I'll call experience parity. This progressive drilling scenario and even rolling seem predicated on two different opponent skill sets. As you are drilling and progress to wanting more resistance that is dependent on a somewhat experienced partner to know how much is required. Whereas in sparring if you are consistently rolling with more experienced people your most likely just getting smashed repeatedly and your techniques aren't working.
To explain it differently, you aren't pulling off the armbar as a whitebelt when you're rolling against blue and purple belts, but drilling with them will benefit you more so how does that part of the equation fit into this?
#frightteam
Good question. Obviously thr ideal is that you roll with people better, and people worse. But in reality that isn't always possible. Especially early on in training.
@@EnglishMartialArts The one that I saw some time ago was "Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect." While on it's face that's ridiculous what I think it means here is that since training doesn't happen in a vacuum it's about the right partners and mindsets to help everyone get the most out of it. Two white belts drilling sloppy arm bars can drill until the cows come home and not get better.
@@PunchCatcher Yes, I've always preferred "Practice makes permanent".
By the way...Fright Team.
Katas are nothing more than drilling with a fancy name. I learned how to throw kicks I learned how to throw punches learned how to block and I even had to stand through katas. But I learned more in both jujitsu and striking by getting in there and going up against either resisting opponents or getting into street fights. Maybe I'm an outlier. Fright team!
Talk to text with an American Southern drawl sucks.
My first teacher Master John Tsai said a tech gets easier after the first 500 times
Muscle memory
Isn’t sparing another form of drilling?
No, drilling is repetitive, sparring can't be that unless the skill level is massively unequal.
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Pedagogy in bjj seems generally really bad except for people like SBG who have clearly thought about how to go about teaching. There's a huge gap between drilling and sparring that most schools don't recognise and develop effective exercises for.
Yes, agreed. I think people follow the format of the standard class and learning happens at least as much by chance as by design.
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@@johnstuartkeller5244 Yay, I knew I could rely on you.
@@EnglishMartialArts yeah it's a similar contradiction as your learn through drilling v rolling. The narrative is bjj is effective because you do live sparring but their teaching pedagogy comes from traditional martial arts of drilling with no resistance. I've gotten so annoyed about this I've started to think bjj is really bad value for money. At least it is in the big commercial Gracie Barra type gyms.
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So here's the answer. Every martial art works when performed by animated lego people.
Hey there is there any way to get in touch with you regarding business? Thanks
You should be able to see my email address on the "about" tab.
@@EnglishMartialArts It's not coming up and also I think the WordPress website has been taken over by a virus or scam
Malaysia... Lol represented
Absolutely! 😁
Fright team! Mwahaha!
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Fried Theme
I like the way you think...
Funny, but you have pointed a finger at one of the greatest issues in Aikido schools, which drives me CRAZY 🥴 to this day.
In a 2 hour session (with 40 min warmup) , they teach you 4 - 5 patterns with 10 minutes (5 per person) to practice them. One comes out of the session with a complete mess in the head and really struggle to repeat any of the techniques properly even an hour later. And it might be days before one gets another session on those techniques. or their variations 🤷♂
It makes most of those things inapplicable in practice 😔
I swear they do it on purpose to make a blackbelt harder to get.
@@EnglishMartialArts Just finished recording 🙂
th-cam.com/video/-HCdWZsEKTI/w-d-xo.html
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You make the mistake of mixing up drilling with sparring, there is no sport in martial arts ( however good you are at them) Napoleon and Wellington didn't spar at Waterloo . They took form that had been well drilled and then went to war . Sparring is for sport , whilst drilling is for real martial art.
Tim
Are you suggesting that if a martial art actually puts what it teaches into practice on a regulat basis then it isn't a martial art at all?
@@EnglishMartialArts yes
It becomes combat and the art is gone . I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying there different .
Respectfully Tim
@@timandjacquinicklin9596 Well I don't think I could disagree more, but rich tapestry of life and all that...
Good morning Sir.
Sparring Makes fighting seem safe ,whilst removing the danger of a real fight. One plays when one spars whilst there is no real harm done. However if one ever has to fight for real , there is going to be dangerous activity . So really one should drill one technique in all seriousness to a point where one can depend on it . To spar is frivolity and playfulness , both of these are not attitudes one should adopt when facing danger .
Cogito ergo sum Tim
@@timandjacquinicklin9596 I think we spar very differently. I've walked away from sparring with arms I can't straighten, black eyes, split lips, even broken bones. I've been choked out, strangled and dropped with one good punch.
Obviously we aren't trying to kill each other, but the opportunity was there, we chose not to take it. There is a massive degree of trust involved in proper sparring.
Wait till the arthritist kicks in.
A guy who thinks only striking is a valid martial art for “da streetz” has no business talking about how to deal with violence. The unpredictability of it is exactly the reason why. Let’s say a high level wrestler, or even a mediocre one, attacks Tate in the street. If he takes him down, Tate is screwed. So he better see it coming and he better be perfect and knock the guy out quick.
Such arrogance. While knowing how to strike is necessary, it’s certainly not the only thing. Or even the most important thing. You can be a shitty striker and still knock someone out, but you’re not going to be a shitty grappler and escape or counter a good grappler
Damn. This comment wasn’t on the video I thought I was on lol
Jhon Danaher disagrees with drilling to much.
I suspect I'd want to hear his definition of too much before commenting...
@@EnglishMartialArts yes for this who want to know it's on the lex Friedman podcast cast where he interviews John Danaher.
KUDO rules OK.
uchikomi
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Muscle memory
I assume you're commenting on the thumbnail?
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