Assessing Cuts - FFV Vodka
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2017
- Today I get to go through the process of assessing cuts for the first time, for my FFV vodka. I have been given a lot of advice and done a lot of reading. Time to give it a go!
Going into this I was most interested and nervous about my ability to actually sense the difference between heads, hearts and tails. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Another good video dude, very detailed.
Spat my toast out at 10:58 using your JASS GLARS.
HAHA. Was wondering who would notice that!
@@StillIt made me chuckle ... 4 years later :)
Dude I have to say, I am new to this world and working with a less than optimum (grainfather with alembic top) system. I have been watching your vids and reading a ton in the forums for the past 3 months. I am anxious to start but have been waiting to learn a bit more. I’ve been brewing beer for 8 years and your vids are giving me confidence. I can’t wait to learn more and hopefully “succeed” with my UJSSM plans soon.
What an experience testing cuts from first run!!! Gonna have to retest. I did not expect the extremes I got at heads and tails from hearts. The transitional samples between heads/hearts and hearts/tails I was not prepared for. A genuine learning experience. After retest I plan the transition cuts with hearts on slow low heat spirit cut nearer 175 F (80C). Advise if I am wrong. This really is a first attempt. TIA!
Good job bro! Thanks for Sharing something that I can't do here! I never let my pure vodka breath, I'll try that next time! Cheers!
Sorry for rubbing it in dude!
good video. I think 14 to 17 might have had some foaming / carryover from the mash, just my thoughts. I going to be trying this one shortly. Thanks for the help.
Heads are prickly and hot.
Hearts are warm like a kiss
huh, like that.
Great video, again!
Thanks :)
Are these all the resulting jars from the entire 100 L. batch? Did you end up keeping those other 2 jars of hearts? And how many litres of 40% ABV did the 100 L. batch give you? Thanks
Very interesting. I've never put that much effort into making cuts. Try running the off tasting stuff through a charcoal filter and see if that helps. Cheers 😲
Yip, I guess the idea is if you are supper picky with the cuts you dont need to worry about filtering. BUT that is a VERY good point dude. I should totally try it with the stuff that I am less than happy with. Now why didnt I think of that already! Lucky I have you lot! haha
I have an opinion about your 14,15,17 - stills can temporarily develop hot/cold spots which allow super hot wash to shoot up through the column and upset the balance. A stirrer is recommended to resolve that, although I haven’t found many on hobby-class stills. Boiling beads are also recommended but I haven’t tried that. The hot spots shoot tails-type product and cold spots can shoot heads-type product up. Hope this helps.
Hmmm, interesting! I'll have to look into that. I had thought they were more to stop scortching etc. I will have to check it out.
@@StillIt In chemistry its called bumping. When chemist are boiling pure chemical in clean glassware they add boiling chips or stirrer because without them there are no starting places for a bubbles to form and because of that the liquid super heats above boiling point. Because thats unstable state sooner or later a bubble forms and because of all that super heating it grows really big and then splatter boiling liquids everywhere.
Is this what saddles are used for?
@Warrior Son I can agree with you on that, poor analogy on my part. Its more the temperature differences causing the turbulence. I've see some really odd shifts in the off takes and I've been able to correlate it an turbulence in the column balance.
Interesting video! I have primarily made white rum from cane sugar. I always do the cuts by taste. The heads that I usually get are like potent green apple mixed with acetone...that shit burns! I would never drink it; better for lighting charcoal. I don’t have much to say about the hearts, they are pleasant with a mild sweetness and a nice smooth gentle heat. Then comes tails and oh god are they bad! You were saying cement and wet dog; that seems like a pretty close description to what I get. The tails I get taste like wet cardboard and they almost feel dry and like putting a cotton ball in your mouth. It is most unpleasant! As far as the tails flavor popping up during hearts, I have absolutely had that happen! Very strange, I wish I understood the chemistry a little better. The spirit does spontaneously clean up a bit with time; a week seems to help my rum quite a bit.
+Inkwellish yeah I really want to get to know the. Chemistry a bit more!!
I have yet to do a rum. I really need to get onto that!
I too have recently had this false fruity flavour coming from my heads!, although i have to say i quite like it and have been mixing it with hearts :/ fingers crossed i havnt done myself damage lol, i only get 100-200ml of this a run as i only make 3 lots of 5.5 litre batches @18% so ill be leaving it out from now on, im loving these videos and all the information i get from them AND the comments from fellow distillers! i do have a question for anyone who can answer :) In the UK we have both white granulated Beet sugar and white granulated Cane sugar readily available by the KG so thats what i use most of the time, would you guys class this as a Rum or Vodka? or is it just a neutral spirit like ever clear?
+Dan Barber I guess it really depends who you talk to and what point of view they are coming from.
To me I move between two different head spaces.
Technical.
Does it actually count as spirit legally/technically. Ie, if your not in Scotland it's not not scotch.
What does it imitate.
What does it taste like, what is it that you are trying to make etc.
I tend to think about and talk about the second he most.
I figure you just gotta watch your temps and don't let them get away on you. That and your flow through the condenser are the only variables here. Cheers.
+gordon6029 thanks Gordon. Yeah I should get a port sorted for thermometer!
Hey mate just wondering how many stripping runs went into this? The weird cuts would have come from the increased output speed. This causes a shift in the fractions in the column and would have caused some smearing of the tails into the hearts. You did the right thing by slowing it down and getting the output speed a little lower. Its fairly common to have to slow down towards the end of the run but as you found that can produce some of the cleanest spirit in the run.
Thanks Sam, that makes sense!
It was 2x stripping runs + a small amount of the OG ferment that didnt fit. 100l overall.
Still It okay cool. Generally the consensus is that you'll get 2L if 95% alcohol from each 40L of wash give or take. So I reckon you're pretty good on that front. The way I look at it is half of the alcohol of my low wines should be hearts so if I have 30L of 40% low wines (12L total alcohol) I should keep 6L of 100% alcohol. Hope that helps in some way to get some general figures
Why wouldn't you remove the heads and foreshots in the stripping run so you don't have to deal with that in your spirit run. You may collect a bit at the beginning of the spirit run but you won't have so much to deal with in the final run. Also a flame test helps you decide your heads cut from the hearts. I'm still new at this so I may be wrong but so far I've had good luck this way.
I hear you mate. This is my thinking on it.
The point of a stripping run is to run super quick and just cut the volume down. Because of that smearing is about as bad as it's going to get.
So I would rather take the extra time during the spirit run to more precisly separate the heads. Heads and tails will be more compressed during the spirit run (comparatively).
In addition it allows you the option (if you choose) to go looking for flavour in either the heads or tails. Once again when they are more precisly separated from each other.
It's all a personal preference because we are all chasing a slightly different goal. Some just want ease of operation, some more flavour, some less flavour etc etc. At the end of the day that's my thinking on the matter, but it won't be beat for everyone 👍🏻🥃😊
100% a "flame test" is NOT going to discern the heads from the hearts 🚫⚠️🚮
Finally moved away from the hbs set up recently myself and still getting the hang of finding cuts myself. Have used sodium carbonate on the spirit run only and seems to help clean it up and apparently compresses heads
+alan hohepa nice man. I have not tried that yet, or to be honest looked into it too much. I should though!
Still It I have tried it and it does seem a lot cleaner but as mentioned I'm still learning myself. The scientific jargon on how it works went slightly over my head tbh haha
Still It loving the vids btw!
bahaha fair enough dude! Most of it goes over mine too!
and thanks, man :) appreciate it.
Noob question. So that's 3.5L @85%ish drinkable alcohol from 100L of wash?
Do any of the hearts seem to vary in ABV?
Just the ones I pulled aside as tasting a little strange. That first one dropped to 88%.
nice vid. you could of had some residue left in the jar. hard to tell. especially with the first run. possible that when you did cleaning run had something left behind and it came through then. also, could have been some build up and then it flushed through. look for low spots or catch points that could accumulate. although i think this is unlikely. you'll know more on the next run. great job by the way.
Yeah, I didn't take great notes on this reflux run. I was more just experimenting with how the still worked. Guess thats going to be key to really solving problems like that in the future.
When collecting with a CCVM. When you start collecting after raising up the condenser, collect several jars, then drop it back down to reflux again. During the 2nd reflux you may get a jar with a funky taste. Which may or may not go away during the run. Depends on how far in the run, 2nd reflux time and column size.
Did you save the backset?
i like the way you did this test, i am told after time a person can get real good at it. what to keep and what to get ride,, from my looking at info dont get rid of the end run dump them back in your next wash , seem to help, i am still new at this stuff, i do like your show keeps me in the game thanks
+richard y. I have heard the same. I am not good at it haha.
Yeah I have been keeping everything so far. Plans to use the feints in different ways....but hanging onto them for now :)
i am still watching all your vides right now
+richard y. Haha thanks man 😁
I suspect your mid-run issue with increase in output decrease in quality was because of flooding where some condensate from the RC is splashing out the offtake. If that is the issue then backing off the power/ vapour speed will fix the problem
a sight glass below the offtake will help you manage the risk of flooding, i.e. you back off the power when you see the condensate starting to pool
here’s a link to a vid of the sight glass on my CCVM, you can see the vapour bubbling up through the condensate. I try to keep the condensate level only halfway up the sight glass. I control the condensate level indirectly with the power controller. th-cam.com/video/jAP21_wocvQ/w-d-xo.html
You know what mate,
I think you may be right on the money looking back at it now!
I found out the hard way on my first VM run, ooh 3 litres per hour (at 92%) wow, blergh tastes like shit (heads.) I re-ran it. IMHO, if you are able to put your column in total reflux then you should be able to achieve azeotrope. If you are not getting azeotrope then you are pushing your column too hard.
When you say "cement", do you mean like concrete, or model airplane glue?
Good point! Concrete. You know that weird smell of wet cement?
@@StillIt The limestome/clay part of the smell?
Alcohol go to your system pretty good thru mucosa. Those crazy youngster years, when taking sniffers, damn, booze on nose feel bad, but hits hard :D
"Jass glars" lol
+Hanson423 ahhhhh my proudest moment ;)
I'm not as think as you drunk I am... hic
kiwi bra? I do my cuts from tasting out from the middle jars, excellent description of the flavours. I describe the heads burn as also being drying mouth puckering
haha how did you ever guess?!
yeah agreed! It is a weird sensation to explain to someone that has not felt it before huh?!
if you taste from hearts first and then work your way out from the middle to each end you’ll pick up the changes easier.
Same here. I always start in the middle too,, then either side, up & down, until ur close to what u initially thought would be heads & tails. Starting at the beginning can sometimes destroy ur palate before u even get to the mid section
Like your videos,should use your B class cuts to make apple pie moonshine.its easy to do and hides any tastes you don't like!
Yup yup!
I like this idea ;)
Carbon filter will clean it all after cutting it down
put out 170 a gallon and gt.still was still going but that will be back sets..the rest in to ferment...it is a art just got a alcohol stove nice to have a cup of coffee made from waist by product...smelled good as well..
Wait . . . you made the coffee from what? I missed that sorry dude.
Still It no cooked coffee with the methanol..got a alcohol stove...
ahhhhh nice!
so keeping the heads is just alcohol volume?
Maybe jars 14,15 &17 were actually 18-20 and you accidentally mixed em up?
Flyspray flavour is they way I’ve heard chemical taste described
so, from a 100L wash u got 5l drinkable spirit at 91% ?
If you think about it, 10% of a 100L wash is 10L. You're probably not going to get all of that alcohol out of the wash, because it's not practical. Then you ditch fores, heads and tails and some of the hearts, 5L left seems about right.
You been in lockdown even before the Corona started lol
old video, I'm guessing you know by now that you can mix all your heads, hearts and tails (not the first 100ml, and not the toe jam ones though) together and water down to 45% then slow drip out a big activated carbon granule filter. Do this and it will all will come out the same, polished and crystal pure. I use 2kg of 1mm, or 2mm granulated carbon, in a vessel, with a drip tap out bottom. holds 3 litres of the 45% all sitting in and above the carbon, and takes 2 days to drip out. so, 2kg lasts for 10 runs of 10 litres, then you can oven heat leech out the fusels, and reuse, or just spread dig in garden, and buy more.
Just finding your channel and anxious to watch your progress.
One piece of constructive criticism. It's very difficult to follow your progress.
("Journey" is a TERRIBLY overused word to me)
Suggest you Title your videos with either
Volume #.
ie Vol. 12 - Assessing Cuts - FFV Vodka
or the date
ie Vol. 170824 - Assessing Cuts - FFV Vodka
That would make it much easier for the (hopefully) MILLIONS of "crafters" that will find their way here.
Cheers
haha MILLIONS! like your thinking ;) And welcome, out of interest how did you find me?
I hear you dude(others have mentioned the same thing). Unfortunately, that's rather counter productive with youtube search/suggested search algorithms.
However, you can go to the still it channels page > videos then sort by date (oldest first). That's always my go to plan when I find a new channel I want to catch up on :)
Also, I to hate the "J" word. I try to avoid it whenever I can.
Love your videos:-)
I’m just wandering what do you do with all that booze hahaha
fingers burn it smell and feel for oils on fingers before and after.after the burn can smell more..
Now thats a new one to me!!
To be truly scientific and objective, taste the cuts in reverse or even random order. Do a self blindfold test
this video does not play at the moment. tried on multiple devices.
Are you going to distill the contents of the spittoon ,,,,, waste no want not lol
YOU COULD HAVE USED AN EYE DROPPER. THE ALCOHOL WILL BE ABSORBED THROUGH THE MOUTH. Cool video. I'm just weeks from my first run. I watch you and George Duncan.
Jass glars
😂😂
Been there, done that...
The slower you run it the better it will be you should not have to throw away that much you need to figure out your water on your condenser to fast will give you off taste to slow will give you off taste there is a fine line there you have to fine...................
That's a interesting one. I would love to know why it would give a off flavour if it's too slow? Cheers 🥃
Because it runs off at a higher temp the temp the mash comes out hotter not in proof but degree if the degree is hotter most of the vap ... is leaving the mash.........................CHEERS
Not too sure what you mean sorry mate.
As faster or slower won't change the temp of the wash in the boiler at all. Taking off slower would mean a lower vapor temp (if you agree that slower generally means a higher proof). And if we are talking vapor temp at the top of the line arm (point of no return) then that temp is directly correlated to the abv.
NO im talking about coming of you still
Ah ok......sorry still not sure what you mean haha.
MMMMmmmmmm......Foot odour !!
It's one if my favs ;)
Lol, "may have a significant effect".......
Come on man . . . . I was trying to sound all smart and shit!