Let's Take Apart the Casio PX-S3000 / PX-S1000 Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- If you like music, you might want to check out my second channel "Milan Recording Studios". Feel free to subscribe and hit the bell icon if you want to!
/ @milanrecordingstudios...
Just a few days ago I dissembled the Casio PX-S3000 and was honestly impressed with the way it was made, when you rule out the flawed action. I hope and believe they will not only come out with a new model. If they do, and if it's as good as I think that it could be, they will challenge the top brands in this segment of the market. - เพลง
I would have never thought there would be piano TH-cam drama but here we are and I love it
I dont even play piano but I'm captivated.
@Nathaniel's Phone Quoted from Two Minute Papers: "What a time to be alive!"
Funny how Jame's original video illustrating the issue has multiple times the views of the defense/response by Casio Music's youtube channel (3000+ as of this writing). Streisand Effect in Action (lol). I think James needs to now standardize on the key weights test in all reviews in order to be consistent.
If Casio can get past feelings and just hear him out, accept the criticism and measure more carefully the key action, maybe they will have found their topmost beta tester here! This exactly how products are improved. Someone is annoyingly picky with details, then they trimmed and newer releases get near perfection. No drama is needed. 👍
Why!, why!, oh, Casio why!? Hahaha! 😂🤣
DEAR CASIO, Nobody is against you as a brand. We just want you to make the best possible instruments. Step up your game and appreciate this FREE form of feedback. Nobody wants to destroy you. By this man showing the problem, we all hope you will make an improved version. Pls step up your game.
Personally i happen to like Casio' s digital pianos. Then again my a newbie . I play a privia px 160 and i love it and i ve also played some yamahas. All have theie pros and cons. This was a very revealing video and i thank James for the edu ation because before now i never new the difference between and good key action and a bad i just played so now im aware so manufacturers beware the public has new knowledge.
@@jimmyhines66 I have the PX-160 too and enjoy it. The PX-160 has Casio's older action which is much larger and doesn't suffer the compromises of the new compact one.
I might not be against them as a brand, but I am definitely against their handling of this debacle. If I can't trust the company, I cannot trust their products. #shady
@@jimmyhines66 i play a cdp s350
Luuk Swinkels - SECONDED!
The madman actually did it
Before this video:
James: There's something wrong with the action.
Casio: There's nothing wrong with this design, you don't know what you're talking about.
After this video:
James: Here's the proof of my previous statement.
Casio: Yes we intentionally designed it that way and it's a feature not a flaw.
During the video one guy said there wasn't a problem and the other guy in the corner of the video said that portable keyboards have acceptable flaws as trade-offs implying there was a problem. Kind of disappointed me. I was looking for a new keyboard as I've been using a PX-150 for 4.5 years since I started. I was going to go with a PX-350 or the PX-S3000. Because of this flawed action I decided to go with the PX-350. Because of how Casio is handling this I decided to go with the Yamaha P515
The classic "its a feature" defence
Casio must be owned by Todd Howard
Well, it appears it was intended to be a feature, but ended up being a flaw.
...Aaaaaaaand the rationalization circus continues...
Man I was literally about to click Buy on a PX-S1000 and thought "yknow lets look at reviews ooooone more time just in case."
SO happy I found this video! Thanks so much for making it!
Same here! I was planning to go to the store to buy one in the morning and thought I'd look up YT reviews tonight. Glad I did. The way Casio handled this put me off from ever buying from them again. Will shop around for another brand.
Me too! I was about to buy this piano but this vid has stopped me. I will buy one if they fix this.
What Casio should learn from this is that they should employ James.
i never thought i would see drama about pianos between a youtuber and a recognized big company with response to each other
what a time to be alive
I don't really see a counter-argument on this so once again (and hopefully the last time) you've proven your point. I genuinely think that Casio is gonna rethink their next piano design based on this whole drama. Keep up the good content! 😁
I personally doubt it. Only two things make companies back down and fix things: financial loss and market pressure that results in financial loss. Essentially, you have to make a company lose money.
I think that had more engineers than pianists in their product development team.
I think what we're seeing here with the previous generation Privia action vs this new action is a violation of the old principle: Make things as simple as possible, but no simpler. :D :D
Let's see Casio respond! ( and we will all be nice to them! ). Debate is healthy.
Casio can't possibly come out of this smelling good no matter what they do at this point. They publicly accused this man of having an anti-Casio agenda. This guy responds with a physical teardown loaded with genuine compliments of the piano's build quality, on top of proof of his original complaint. They've unleashed their bots on his channel already. Who really looks like they're acting in bad faith here, Casio?
@@Murderbeans Yeah, I saw the same thing too. An anti-Casio agenda? Is Casio really that worried and defensive that they would claim James is carrying an anti-Casio agenda? James has gone out of his way (almost sickeningly so) to mention all of the great qualities of this unit. Casio is clearly out-of-line and it stinks coming from a professional company. David vs. Goliath maybe?
When physics (levers), engineering (design) and manufacturing meet to allow people to create art and entertainment.
They made manufacturing compromises, probably to reduce manufacturing costs, hoping no one would complain.
The problem is the intervention of Casio's marketing (BS denying the existence of a flaw) and economics (cost of correcting the flaw).
When you use a "salesman" to reply to a piano technical issue rather than a renowned pianist and a piano technician, it says a lot about the technical value of the answer.
Casio:"We don't want to reveal what's inside our instrument."
James:"You do not want to, you say? That's fine, I got you."
Outstanding analysis of this keyboard. A classy statement from Casio on this matter would be something on the order of; No digital piano keyboard can 100% emulate the feel of a real piano keyboard. We feel our design achieves a practical emulation, while simultaneously offering a slim, lightweight, digital piano with a superior piano sound quality with built in speakers at a exceptional price point. Being honest and straightforward will always be a added value with any company. Course, that's just my opinion, a consumer.
Also recognize that the design is a compromise which trades off the quality of the touch for physical size; state that the goal isn't to be the best all piano for use where size is no object, but the best piano within certain size and weight constraints. One wouldn't expect a travel guitar to match the sound and feel of the best instruments, but it's still possible to have a playable guitar fit in a remarkably small package.
That having been said, I find myself curious whether it would be practical to design a piano with a mechanism u.nder each key designed so that when the front of the key moves down, the back will move down by a smaller amount, thus behaving as though the pivot point was behind the instrument.
@@officialWWM If they were smart.
@@officialWWM Ha! It's called dancing. We got a problem, but look over there.
@@flatfingertuning727 I can already imagine how this works using guide rails or something
I think I can give some insight into _why_ they did this. Because the actual pivot point is brought so much closer to the keys due to the shorter design of the case the designers opted to try and maintain the moment of the key; a shorter key requires less weight to give an equal moment. They must have picked a certain position which they decided is the 'perfect' point to play the keys on average and then tuned the weights accordingly; this means that there is _some_ point along the black and white keys where the action actually feels almost identical between the two, but because the keys are so short, any deviation in finger placement from this ideal spot where the action moment was calibrated from will yield vastly different feels to the action between the keys. This means that different people with different resting positions for their fingers may, in fact, feel different action, so the people commenting on the livestream where they responded to your video saying "the action feels perfect" may mean that they just happen to place their fingers in the right spots where the moment is equal between the keys. Perhaps more could have been done in the design to reduce this, but the small construction has meant they had little choice, short of some composite pivot mechanism which would be much less elegant of a design. Just my two cents.
When I got the notification for this video I clicked so fast-
Thanks for taking it apart James, it was very insightful and actually kind of amusing. Hopefully Casio takes notes lol
I'm learning more about piano key action than I ever thought I would!!! This was a great assessment of the Casio key action and very interesting to see it apart. How about comparing Casio to something else now like a Yamaha? Maybe you could get one of the experts you know to show us a real piano action so we can better understand the challenges that keyboard manufacturers have in imitating that?
The lever is longer, so the graded change in trigger force does not change so drastically.
You are awesome to take the time to open up the Casio and show us the action. I think that model is a good keyboard in this price point. Thank you for this review. You are the best!
Actually, you can simulate a longer key (i.e. simulate a pivot point that is farther back so the key goes down more parallel to itself, making for a more consistent force along its usable length) using an articulated quadrilateral mechanism, thus keeping both a nice action and a compact form factor. I can send you a schematic drawing of how it could look/work in a piano keyboard.
The picture at 12.50 says it all.There looks to be about half an inch between the back of the visible part of the keys and the fulcrum. This means that playing a black key halfway back needs twice the force of playing at the front, while playing a white key at the same place only needs about 1 and a half times the force. To make them feel the same, the black key has to be lighter at the front. The "Responsive Hammer Action" on the Kawai MP6 and ES110 pivots the keys two inches behind the visible part, so the distance effect is greatly reduced. Also a real piano pivots the black keys about an inch behind the white keys, so the distance effect is almost eliminated and fine tuning with weights removes it completely.
Thank you for providing all of these excellent reviews! I’m really learning so much.
The true solution is not to abandon the form factor. On top of my head you can replace the current weight with a hinged scissoring mechanism with two opposing weights, and simulate a longer fulcrum. That would make the piano more expensive because now you have 2x of the moving parts.
Seeing the inside of electronic stuff is just amazing. Thank you for reading our comments and making this follow-up video. I will miss you when you go to college but prepare yourself even more and create new projects and let your ideas flow. Thank you.
I will be going to college in the fall, but I hope to keep very close to the same schedule for my TH-cam channel. I think there could be additional content at times, but still all of the same things that you know now as well.
Thats some great work right there. Hats off to you for showing this because these big brands need to know that they have messed up and through this video they will have to own up to thier mistake and make the necessary changes. However it would be nice to see another keyboards action in comparison to this one
Very interesting video! I've always been interested in the mechanical inners of pianos, digital and acoustic. Keep up the good work James, can't wait for that comparison.
I came here becuase I was looking for someone brave enough to take apart a keyboard action. finally a proper review 🥲
Love your style for the reviews. Sounds fair and accurate because you explained and showed your point.Thanks for the great job. It is making my choices easier.
Well done James. This video was written & preformed with the class we’ve come to expect from you.
Hi James, great video. I have played the piano for many years and I remember my old teacher spending quite a lot of time explaining how the piano action worked from day one. At first I thought what does this have to do with music but that basic understanding did help me connect with the instrument. A digital piano's action is hidden which means its not now easy to do this. The general principles remain the same but videos like yours help us understand why feel can vary so much on digital pianos. Thank you
I love your videos. I've been looking for keyboards to buy with my stimulus check, and this series of yours has really helped with that.
Very grateful for your candor and concise approach. I think you are helping to drive the industry forward with more integrity. Unchecked, quality would suffer. Bravo!
A very interesting and balanced (pun intended) tear-down/review! I like the fact that you gave Casio ample credit for their good features (as they rightly deserve), as well as the depth of detail you put into your explanation, making the issue with instruments of this type very clear and easy to follow!
I find myself fascinated with the physical weighting system they employ, leading me to wonder if actual mass could be shaved off the heavier keys and/or added to the lighter ones in an effort to give the action a more balanced feel.
Another strategy they might consider would be to give the black and white keys separate fulcrum lines, such the length of both types, from tip to fulcrum is equal. I'm unsure how that would effect the overall feel of the different key types, but it is something to consider.
I absolutely love your videos. The best informative reviews easily.
Terrific, James. Well done! Fascinating to see the inner workings, and you made your point without rancour. Like many other commenters, I'd love to see how other electronic keyboards work, if you are so inclined. Thanks!
It's really good to see how fast your channel is growing. You're videos are informative and entertaining.
Well done James! Nothing better than proof of test!
You are my hero :) This channel is on the top of my list!
Love your persistence and integrity to quality. I love Casio digital pianos and will purchase another one again, even after returning my PX-S3000! I truly hope they will take your suggestions into consideration for their next model. I'd be willing to wait and buy it in a heart beat!!
Excellent diagnosis and review! Thanks.
You have shown great class and integrity throughout this drama.
Haaaaa haaaaa haaaaa Oooo Casio, thanks James for this video, the most...
Here you have done 2 most important things ;
1. You exposed the lies for Casio, the way they always confuse the customers, at least this is video is going to make it hard for anyone to trust Casio Instruments, mainly because when Casio is caught in reviews like you did in the previous S3000 videos, Casio will try to prove reviewers wrong instead of apologizing to Customers for the lies. What are they going to say now after this Video ? Hope they will say the disassembled Piano was not the Casio hahaha.
2. You proved to everyone on TH-cam that you're the best at this, you know what you're saying and you can risk anything to prove your point. You never post any video just to get TH-cam Views and Likes, your posts a re always true and informative.
I personally used to trust your reviews, but this one made me feel like you're and you'll always be a REFERENCE for any Piano related thing in the entire world.
Hope everyone else should trust your reviews from now on , You deserve the best "TH-cam Reviewer's Award", if it should ever exist.
Keep it up hero !!!
Corneille Abigenga I was think about buying a GP-500.... but now the company really makes me wonder.
I have had a Casio Privia for some years now and really enjoyed it but seeing how they responded to your respectable approach and opinion I can not buy another one. I am in the market for an upgrade and was shopping newer models, but I can't support a company that responded to you the way they did.
Good on you for being unbiased and diplomatic in your assessments and videos. Hats off, keep up the good work.
I have a privia for sale.
Hi James. I loved that you referenced form follows function. Besides being a piano player and song writer I spent 35 years of my life as a welder/ fabricator and machinist. I just wanted to add that for me ,form follows function goes one step further. It's not just that the function of something is more important than it's form, but that it's form is literally defined by it's function. In other words, you should be able to look at any one aspect of its form and trace it back to a particular function that required it to look the way it looks in order to work properly. No bells and whistles, all aspects of form having a purpose.
Also, I own a Roland R.D.600. It's old enough now that I've had to open it up for repair many times. The problem is that they used all plastic levers with the weights embedded in the plastic at the end. The plastic is so thin at the point where the weights are embedded that over time they develop stress cracks and eventually break off. Not only does that key not return to its proper height now but the weight assembly slips around benieth the other keys making them unusable. If you Google Roland key repair you will see this is a very common problem. The temporary fix is to trade the broken levers for unbroken ones from the upper register until you can either fix or replace the broken ones. They are old enough now that I haven't been able to find replacements so until I take the next step and try to glue them I've had to live with having half a dozen dead keys at the top of the register. This particular design flaw was not so much about the way it played but more about how the keybed held up over the years. I hope Roland has addressed this issue in it's more recent models. I probably wouldn't buy one if they haven't.
Stuff like that is the perfect job for 3d printers. I don't know the exact design of the keys, but I bet you could print the internal part of the keys and epoxy it as a more durable replacement. You could print a whole new key, but 3d printers aren't great at smooth polished parts like that, so if that would bother you that wouldn't be ideal.
@@lobsterbark Thanks, if I had access to a 3-d printer I could maby make an entirely new lever but I would still have to come up with a way to attach the weight to the levers. I've seen videos where people have used u.v. light bonding (Bondic, etc.) It appears to work, I just don't know how long it holds up. It's not a glue and only sets up with u.v. light so that means it doesn't do any good to apply it to surfaces the light can't reach. It acts more like a wrap around the outside that hardens when light is applied. Since the area of the weighted levers where they break is so thin anyway I think it's worth trying assuming that a hardened outer wrap might just be stronger than trying to use some kind of powerful glue at the breaking point only. Anyway, I think I've decided to try this method first. I will still be placing these repaired levers at the very upper end of the keyboards register since it doesn't get as much use. I think Roland could have found a better way to attach the weights to the levers than embedding them within the levers themselves. They eventually break at the point on the lever where the embedding begins.
Such an interesting exploration. I’ve repaired and refurbished many dps, (I even have old key beds displayed as wall art) and always find the way different manufacturers have approached the key action challenge quite captivating....so this was very fun and informative for me.
The black keys are lighter
Casio: no they aren't
This video: look do you remember when you made this? The black keys are lighter
Thanks for this wonderful education JPS. Definitely enjoyed :)
Cheers mate, love to see inside things like this. I value your honesty and insight.
Fantastic work, James!!
Great job. I'm sold. You won the debate.
THE MAD LAD FINALLY DID IT
Cheers to you James!
Quite related: "God is in the details" (Mies van der Rohe)
The "Mad Lad". Love the moniker :-) LOL!
This channel it's amazing, you do a great job explaining everything.
I want to buy my first electric piano, because I'm sick of the keyboard, i want full octaves and weight.
And I'm getting very well informed with your content, understanding how it works.
Thank you for your work!
thanks a lot for such in-depth analysis!
I found this video holds true to your original statement and observations. Thanks for the informative video. I found it quit exciting, haha.
Finally! I always wanted to see what's under the keys! Can you do this with other pianos? I love these kinds of videos!
Really interesting suite of videos, well done for how you've tackled it. I've had my Kawai digital piano for many years and it's fine. I remember going into the piano shop and spending a significant amount of time playing lots of different digital pianos. I went in expecting to buy a Roland at the time as they were the company I was most familiar with at the time but their action wasn't as good as the Kawai. If anything the take-away for me here is that when I am in the market to replace, I'll do the same again and play a number of different pianos so I can compare their feel so I buy the one that feels the most natural for the way I play. As a pianist that's much more important to me than if the body is slightly shallower than the next model.
Great video! I have a friend who owns the 1000. Have played it and personally really like it, for his application which is playing in (loud) live bands it works great and is super handy being light and compact. But can totally see where you're coming from if you want to use it for more dynamic playing
The weights for the black keys and the white keys are different because of the length difference...It.s science. Bravo for making this video
Great video. Thank you for the detailed presentation.
You are the ONLY one that is willing to do such detailed quality control which should have been done by Casio before they even go into mass production. Thank You. Trust your review.
Imo a big limitation of entry level digital pianos is how difficult it is to play near the back of the keys (because their pivot lengths are so short). However, it is possible to find the pivot length, or distance to the fulcrum, for some actions if you search in online forums. I must say the PX-S3000 looked extremely short.
And thank you James for continuing to inform and educate us, your viewers. We truly appreciate your channel. Also, I recently replaced some of the keys on my P-250 and it was very cool to get at look at the inner workings of another digital piano.
Great job! In fact, I'd love to see a video (or series of videos) in which you make recommendations for electric pianos or keyboards in different price ranges. I know that you give reviews of pianos. However, a video that offers recommendations (that includes links to your more intricate video reviews) would probably be extremely popular and extraordinarily helpful!
This is brilliant. You are most certainly a madlad James!
It was good to hear Casio's justification, and it shows they put some thought into it, even though the resulting feel isn't as piano like as it should be for a digital piano.
James, fantastic job. it is interesting how the action works. it would be great to see how other digital piano actions work.
Hi,
I found this video first so I watched the two predecessors in order then came back to this one. All three are great, thanks! I can't play piano but had a Privia PX-150 which was given to a friend. I was excited about the PX-S1000 but now I'm questioning it and will be checking out the Yamaha you mention for comparison. Whichever one I buy, you can be sure I'll stumble around the keys on it for 20 minutes, then pack it away forever, just like the previous one :)
I almost bought a casio. Then I came across your videos. You saved me a small fortune. Thanks. I will stick with my Kronos.
I think I can definitely trust our man here, he's fair, objective and very passionate about what he does. I will continue to consult your videos when it comes to instruments.
The people who say "this is only important to professionals and won't matter to others" such as beginners, do you realize how terrible it is to pile up bad habits from a bad instrument? If a beginner learns on such an instrument, it might take years to undo the damage. Beginners even more so that established players need the right environment and nurturing so they can grow and improve. If not, why tune a piano? Beginner, who cares? just play as is - not like you are a pro.... Common.
Excellent and professional research! Thank you.
Great to see the internal workings of that piano. Would be awesome if you could show the actions of other pianos in this detail as well :)
Yeah. He really did it! You are now the 👑 reviewer!
Thank you James. I had been considering purchasing a Casio PX-S3000 but decided to buy a Kawai CA79 because it has better piano action.
The title cracked me up! You do take this to the next level :)
I noticed this difference when I went and tried pianos at Sweetwater. Also, I wish more of this would happen on TH-cam!
This literally just popped up, after my other comment lol. Amazing bro! I started on piano and went to percussion. I'm currently working on a new series of piano lit for percussion instruments. Great stuff man, I dig the Krause Music Store, but the Van Allen building is a close second.
Can't wait for a review of the PX- S7000; they've been You-Tubing it up like crazy in the last month, and in the last few days!
Thanks for this video, it's great that you would get into the trouble of taking it apart for us! It's kind of sad though, I love the Red PX-S1000 when I saw it just now, was really going to get it and spray the stand red, but now am having second thought after watching your video. I've been trying to get a nice looking piano with great key actions since my Yamaha F-01 died on me last year, to me, it is one of the most beautiful upright DPs ever, and plays and sounds great! I've been going to piano shops checking out DPs, hybrids and Transacoustics for the last month for so, my conclusion is that there is nothing perfect, they either look good and sound crap (like this Casio), or they sound amazing but look like shxt (like the Yamaha YUS5 SHTA, N1X), to me, at least. Kawai DG30 and Roland RG-1 are very nice but would take up a lot more space unfortunately. 😭
Great video. FLLW’s best residential work was Fallingwater in Western PA.
It’s a really nice thing that you are honest on your reviews and not scared to ruffle some feathers along the way. Casio actually did make a DP where form follows function. Its their GP series with full lenght wooden keys and a pivot point that matches a grand. I know its their most expensive piano line but just saying. Maybe you could review it one day to ser how it compares to kawai’s mp11se.
Yeah. Casio GP is the most realistic digital piano I've ever tried, it's fabulous.
I think your assessment is spot on and very fair. Clearly Casio is terrified to admit it because it would cost them lots of money.
You really went all in man. Awesome.
Amazing Jams as always.
From an engineering point of view (Casio, this is for you) it's fairly simple to resolve the difference of feel between the white keys and the black keys. As shown clearly at 12:06 it seems Casio deliberatly manufactured the black key mechanisms to lighten the keystroke of black keys as compared to the white ones. At three points differences are made that all contribute to making the keystroke of the black keys lighter. Resolving the big difference is therefore extremely simple to achieve. Ditch one or two of those measures and you're done. The three elements are: the longer lever inside of the black key, the slightly further placed hinge of the mechanism as compared to the hinge of the white keys and thirdly the lighter weight at the end of the lever on the other side of the hinge. My first attempt to bring the two keystrokes more together would be to adjust the weights. What if you use the same weight for both black keys and white keys, leave the other two measures in place and it's probably already done. You could also move the hinge of the black keys in line with the white keys (even easier to manufacture Id' expect!) and lastly you could move the point of attachment of the lever to the plastic of the black key further back (shorten the lever), although that would make the whole thing possibly too direct.
That is, if you want the manufacturing costs and the size of the body of the keyboard roughly the same. Of course there are many more possibilities, buth then it would become a completely different model in a completely different price range.
Anyway, my two pence. We wish them luck. Undoubtedly they will think through their next design a little longer. Many thanks for this surgical review!
If they did that, because of the short distance to the fulcrum their action would be unusable near the top of the black keys.
There is no physically feasible way to address this problem properly without making the mechanism longer and thus, no longer fitting into the incredibly small case they designed. They painted themselves into a corner with this one.
It does look very sexy, if everything goes wrong the designers of this instrument can go work for Sir Jony Ive.
It is not AS simple as using the same weight. Black keys are significantly shorter that the white keys but have the same pivot point.
As a result, if the actual weights are EXACTLY the same, you will need more force to push the black key (because you press closer to the pivot). To get it right, the black keys should have lighter weights proportionally to their decreased leverage, to the extent that their resistance FEELS the same when pressed normally. Apparently, Casio got it a bit off. Not hugely off but enough to make playing feel odd-and enough for a professional pianist to notice.
The ideal solution may be to somehow move the pivot point deeper, which would let the weight feel more even over the length of a key (i.e. it does not get 10x heavier as you move deeper). They just could not do that for some reason. But they already use a class 2 lever, which is very nice (the lever that only has one side).
I do not know what is inside, though. Best case scenario, you can let the lever run through the whole Privia to the back wall (but only the lever!) and use the gaps between them to pass cables. That's an awfully flimsy design, but it could get such a stage piano close to the real piano (where the "visible" part of the key is about 2/3, and the lever goes another 1/3 past the fulcrum to the pivot point). Depending on how thick you make the hidden parts, this design has the disadvantage of either the keys wasting a lot of space-or the keys being especially wobbly because the actual rod that holds them is a few mm thick.
You are exactly correct.
@@THCAPI Right, having such a short distance to the fulcrum makes the keys’ actuation force very sensitive to finger location. The only viable solution is to increase the action length.
@@THCAPI That is not true. You can use a scissoring mechanism with opposing weights to simulate a longer fulcrum.
Well done James. I was about to buy a Casio PX-S 3000 when you talked about the issue of its keys. I hope Casio will find a solution because the sounds seems really decent.
James,
I look forward to seeing their reaction to your analysis.
I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing them at the next show:)
Do you think they'll take the high road or will they ban you from their booth?
NOW that's the PX3000 question:)
Cheers,
Rik Spector
If you are able to.. I'd really watch every video where you take apart a digital piano. It'd be really nice to see whether the marketing slides are in line with the reality in terms of the piano action. One can usually only find take apart videos when there's something wrong with the keys, and someone takes the trouble and film it.
Great review as always, thanks! :)
I'd love to see you do a review on some of the other Casio Privia Keyboards specifically the PX-770-870 mainly because that is a line of Console type pianos rather than the thinner stage ones.
Excellent presentation, it was very fair and honest, well done.
Glad you liked it!
James, I appreciate your form-follows-function assessment and for this reason look forward to trying a Kawai 11SE (for long key-length and pivot-point).
I have favored Roland RD series actions for several years and note that each iteration 500/600/700/800/2000 feels different. I really liked the RD600 as a Rhodes controller - the weight and bounce were a nice match for my recollection of a 1973 Mark 1. So while Roland likely intended to build a digital grand piano, their marketing department could have claimed that Rhodes was the function they were following.
The RD700NX is currently my controller for grand piano; for both internal presets and Ivory American Standard D VI. I recall that a Roland senior manager once said in an interview that an acoustic Steniway D was nearby during RD700NX development, so the match is not surprising. I've tweaked velocity curves a bit for my desired response. While a bit light, playability is acceptable and consistent across the entire keybed.
With a consistent action, digital tweaking can work wonders. My favorite trick with an old Yamaha S90 was to add ~20ms delay between Note On and appendant Note Off, using the Duration feature of the discontinued Mac utility Midipipe. The stock S90 piano response to me felt a bit choppy and lacking sustain; adding 20 ms softened the edges and improved playability with the built-in S700 preset.
Thanks again for your thoughtful reviews.
hahaha! yes!! I'm a chord playing piano player at best... I use my old casio arranger/workstation for writing songs; I like it... I like synth piano key feel... I know nothing about proper piano key feel but when I sat down at my local music store and tried that piano - I noticed something was not right... I may have even thought it backwards as to which way was the heavier the white or the black - and after trying a couple other new keyboard piano types at the store, I was sure something was up - and so did the owner who steered me away from it... looking forward to this video. Thank you positively!!
The design of the Casio keyboards is indeed designed to be repaired. I tried, a number of years ago to repair a Casio organ that had been dropped and sustained several broken keys. I managed to get a copy of the parts diagram and the part numbers for the keys I needed. The thing is, I never actually got the keyboard fixed. I spent several weeks and numerous phone calls with Casio and the various levels of service they hide behind. I finally got to a person that told me I could in fact order the parts at which point they took my order but thankfully not my money. I followed up for some time with this same person with no success as to the state of my order. Eventually I could no longer contact that person directly and gave up on the company and the keyboard. Solution, bought a Yamaha.
OMG, you really did it! Kudos!!!
I have watched both videos, and understand your point about the feel / weight of black keys, and using the technician weights in your last video truly show a weighting issue. What I’m curious to see is the underside of each key as they match up to the rubber pads they use for key contacts. There are 2 “bumper” points that measure the speed of the key travel, which triggers velocity sensitivity.
Your issue could very easily be two separate ones. The velocity curves on the sharps/flats may not be scaled properly, giving you hypersensitive touch. The fact that the key weights are different sizes and thickness clearly shows that Casio was trying to compensate for the length of the lever action. White keys transfer more power just due to length. I would research the software scaling of the velocity contact pads, if I were Casio.
Nice work, James. We all appreciate your passion and hard work.
Really awesome video! It would be great to see a difference of opinion on action here though. While I wouldn't encourage edging Casio on for a response I personally would love to see how a keyboard with a different reviewed action (roland fp30 for instance) plays.
Dude, great video!
Great video - it needed to be done after the last. I took myself back to the music store to play the Casio given the last review and my reaction is that the key weight is very light plus confirmed the weight increase moving closer to the fulcrum. I agree there is no easy fix for Casio - it is what it is but this instrument will have appeal to those who don't require a true piano feel. Many semi weighted or unweighted simply sprung actions feature in even top of the line keyboards so for some this is not a priority. Yes Casio does need to back off the hype about the authenticity of this action.
I'd be interested in your review of the Studiologic SL88 Studio and SL88 Grand actions - these seem to be pretty good budget keyboard controllers.
"Form follows function" seems like an apt description of what's going on here. Casio made a compromise which indeed came about from the reverse. At least we now know what they were aiming for from a pure design and consumer standpoint.
Very interesting James, thanks!
I love it. Casio says they can't say anything as they might disclose the design of it. James says feck it, let's pull it apart. 😂🤣😂🤣😂 I can't handle the tension. I agree with Scott, the Drama is immense. Ok, the ball is now firmly in Casio's court. Casio would do worse than hire James as a consultant as he clearly knows what he's ttalking about where as the sales rep from Casio doesn't know his ass from his elbow.
Awesome work! The triumph of form over function has become a common failing these days.
Thank You so much James, so polite of you :)
This IS it !!!!. Thanks for taking our opinion into account.
I think you nailed it: the design has been focused on appearance instead of keybed quality (meaning closeness to an acoustic piano one). And, truly, there is no way to solve the weight problem with such a compact and basic mechanism.
Sorry, CASIO, this time you clearly goofed!
Interesting. This is probably an unrealistic suggestion, but I think it would be instructive if some of the other digital pianos, that claim weighted keys or hammer action, could be dismantled similarly to see how they engineered this feature.
@Leo DS I think I even tried those models at some of the large instrument stores. Not for every action, mind you. I think they sort of need (?) these models to showcase the mechanics and the advances they make; it is just that the demand is not super high. I guess, they have no reason to make thousands of demo keys-in-a-box for every variation. Especially for the cheaper models where the action is mediocre anyway.