Fix Old Cameras: Hasselblad 80mm T-Star Shutter Malfunction
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2024
- Jammed or misfiring shutter on a Hasselblad 80mm T-Star lens. This tutorial video shows are to disassemble a Hasselblad 80mm lens to access and service the main shutter spring and slow speed escapement assembly.
classic camera repair - www.phototronic.biz
A few tools and books - www.amazon.com/shop/fixoldcam...
This reminds me of the story my Dad used to tell about taking apart a typewriter. No, he never got it back together. I think I'll leave lens repairs to the professionals.
Outstanding video! Thank you. I lost my way with the shutter drive spring and you helped greatly. Additionally, the placement of the retaining plate over the shutter speed ring detent bearing was critical. Yes my mistake was self inflicted but your video pointed me in the right direction!!
Good to hear of your successful repair. Keep'em going.
I just bought same lens for 50 pounds. It has the same problem.Ooo I am looking forward for a weekend to come :) Thanks for a great tutorial.
Thanks for your comments and interest in FOC.
so the day is today:) i found out that that winding spring is broken.Any ideas sir ? Thanks :)
The main spring part number is Part # 000-515-00. They are still available.
Could you please make a video of Hasselblad 503 body jams repair instructions? Very nice videos and clear visual expressions.
Thank you for the suggestion and your words of encouragement.
Thank you,
my dream came true, I did waited so long for this video ;-)
Dreams of a vintage camera repair... thank you for your patience and continued interest in FOC and may your future dreams be of a more colorful nature of the photo adventures that the restoration of your lens will bring.
Hi, I’d love to know where you source replacements for the main wind spring. I’ve had trouble finding a suitable replacement for my broken one. Do you need them to get manufactured by a machinist?
Hi sir, at 2:19, the black spring right underneath your left thumb, what is it for? I have an old 80mm T star lens and that spring is missing. Now the aperture blade is not opening fully when it is cocked. I can see the iris goes back to F22 position slowly when I cock the screw at the lens back. Not sure if the issue is caused by the missing spring, if you know anywhere I can buy the spring. Need your help, appreciate it a lot.
What a helpful videos you made. Thanks so much!
I got my Hasselblad 503cx with its ausiliary shutter jammed (it's wide open) and can't detache the 80mm lens. It is stuck too in an intermediate position. I can press release button but it doesn't trig the shutter.
Please, would you be so kind to make a video on how to fix it? I think there are many people in the same situation.
Please...
Thank you for your comment and suggestion for a featured subject.
What is the cost for CLA Hasselblad lenses in North Amercian these days? Anyone know?
Which cleaning solvent did you use?
Thank you so much for this video. I recently purchased a 150mm f4 c. It has the same problem especially on the slower speeds. Do you think the same principle applies to that lens too and how complicated is to get to its shutter mechanism? Obviously I would have loved if you made a video for it but that’s a long shot...thanks
The shutter is virtually the same and the disassembly to access the shutter is similar with a few variations.
Thanks, time to get my screwdrivers out:)!
I have encountered two more issues and need your help. 1. The pin (cocking and release key?) is moving along with the cocking ring but when I cock it, the pin escapes the cocking ring in the midway and the lens wont cock and diaphram blades do not fully open and set back to the aperture F22 level. How to fix this issue? Do I have to take out the pin? 2. Those two Intermediate cocking gears, i did not mark the position. Is there anyway I can get them correct? Thanks a million.
Wonderful, very helpful video - thank you! I wonder what I can do about too fast shutter speeds? 1 second is fine, 1/2 is fine and 1/4 is fine but 1/8 comes out way faster and this continues down the faster speeds. I remember that this somehow is connected to the tightness of one or two screws providing some kind of resistance to the spring? Would be super glad to hear from you. Cheers.
Figured it out I guess, one of the screws of the timing mechanism wasn’t tightened. Now I wonder why I can’t cock the shutter normally, as it seems to be locked intermittently and I have to hold the shutter release lever in order to be able to turn the cocking-mechanism. Intermittent behaviour sounds like some parts aren’t moving back into position as they should on a regular basis. Any ideas what to look out for? Cheers
@@l.m.k.9564 make sure the little nose on the left side of the escapement sits left to the center of the spring loaded main cocking gear . If it doesn’t cocking will be impossible .
Hi !
I thought this video could help me, but I don't know... I'm kind of a newbie into Hasselblad lenses.
I work with Fuji GFX bodies and just went to buy a couple of Hasselblad lenses (250mm F5.6 chrome and 150mm F4 chrome).
The 250mm is working well adapted, I just have to manually unlock the aperture blades with the little lever (on the same ring as the depth of field markers).
The problem I got with the 150mm is that this little lever doesn't exist on this lens... (wasn't aware of that)
So I can only use F4 and F5.6 apertures, the lens won't stop down any further.
I tried to see if the diaphragm is working properly when leaf shutter is closed : yes.
But I have to set the leaf shutter open to use it adapted onto my GFX camera. And I just can't access to these slow aperture values.
Do you think there's a tip to resolve this "problem" ? Or do I have to remove the whole leaf shutter mechanism ?
Thanks for your help !
Colin
Thank you for the video, I have a question, recently i have a chrome c80 lens and a c60lens, but the rear glass of the c80 has some scratch, can I switch the rear glass between them?
And what do I need to do? Thanks
If you are very careful and meticulous in the switch so as to avoid a mix up... maybe give the switch a try and experiment with the results. Maybe also someone else might have some definitive insight into your question and save you the trouble of the switch if it is not a workable swap.
ok, thanks, i asked some ppl online, they said, they cant be exchange, cuz they are different design, so even the size is right, but i cant be focus...
Thanks for the additional information.
I've an Afga PD16 Viking F.7.7 folding camera that looks brand new, but the shutter just doesn't work, when I try to press the shutter it get stuck and I'm not able to "shoot" again, the blades doesn't move, do you have any thoughts of what could it be? thank you.
Typically the shutter will stick due to a migration of oil on to the shutter blades. If that is the case cleaning of the blades will be necessary. But of course that is not always the cause. It could also be any number of mechanical failures with in the shutter and release mechanisms.
hi, i watched your video and fixed the slow shutter problem. but there is another new problem: the aperture didn't work. maybe something wrong when i dissemble the lens. how can i do next? do you have any guide to disassemble the aperture parts? thank you.
If it was working before disassembly to fix the shutter than you probably did not get the aperture control ring set in proper timing and linkage to the aperture stop down mechanism. You will have to go back through the reassembly steps. With persistence and patience you will get it figured out.
Thank you for this video. It helps so much! But I‘ve another problem with the backside of the Planar. The focus is not sharp at infinity with my 100mm Planar. Maybe you‘ve a solution for this or planning to make a video about it as well.
Does it look sharp focusing off a ground glass on the focal plane? If not, than check for proper seating of the front and rear lens group and the focus helical stop point.
Fix Old Cameras Thank you for your support, appreciate it. I don‘t have it here at the moment, but the 80mm and my 120mm are in sharp focus at infinity at the same camera attached, so I think, the 100mm is anywhere out of adjustment, but I have no idea where to start or what I have to adjust. If you would have it attached and the camera in front of you, then it seems there are few degrees missing of turning sharp on infinity. If I would be able to turn further, like 3mm or so, it would be sharp. So, I think I have to disassemble from backwards, because from the front there are the gear for the time-setting, am I correct? Thx in advance and thank you for your videos supporting the community.
@@pmdt8090 If your remove the bayonet from the back of the lens you can tweak the position of the helical threads. DO NOT separated the threads! You will also need to be aware of the cocking gear and latch position. Take a picture of the position when you first remove the bayonet. Make reference dots with nail polish (you can remove them when no longer needed)
@@FixOldCameras Thank you for your kind support. Just got the 100mm and removed the bayonet. I saw, what you have described and got into it. But there are marks already and I think, the lens is a problem-lens. It seems that someone tried before to fix it, because there are several marks in it. The helical threads are at the end, so I think someone moved the threads by one tooth. So I give up at this point without success, but will keep it in mind and maybe I'll think about to fix it in the future. Anyways, thank you again for your support and keep up your work and videos. You're supporting the community and help so many people to get their old cameras up and running again. At least I benefit from your support!
P.S. A day later now I tried to fix it. I rumored in my head, so I had to get into it again. I opened the bayonet and unscrewed the inner helical thread slowly and turned one or two gears further. It worked and now I can focus sharp on infinity.
...nice repair work, but I couldn't help but notice quite a bit of foreign particles and smudge marks in and on the lens during and after the re-assembly.
This channel is awesome!
I can't open a Distagon C 50mm f/4!!
Below the front ring with the band there is a ring that holds the front element in place, but I can't remove it before removing the name plate - which has no dents so I could fit a tool to unscrew it... :(
You will have to use a friction tool on the name plate ring. Sometimes seeping some alcohol around the threads will help. Use the alcohol sparingly so as not to have it flow behind the lens group.
@@FixOldCameras you are awesome! Thank you very much!
Nice
What lubricant do you use? I have an old 50mm (silver one) that needs CLA'd
The 50mm is similar to the 80mm only after the larger front element and housing is removed.
The grease for the focus helical and the light oil for the shutter can be found here -
astore.amazon.com/fixoldcam-20?node=1&page=5
- or you can use a light sewing machine or clock oil for the shutter and a light synthetic bicycle chain grease for the focus helical threads.
A word or two on CLA. There are only a few points of adjustments in such a lens and to adjust them beyond tolerances to correct an immediate issue often will cause future major problems. If the lens shutter is jammed than it might need to be addressed as a repair. If the issue is a sluggish shutter than that indeed could possibly be corrected by cleaning. Where old lubricants are causing an operational issue, they will be need to be removed and replaced to facilitate repair. If the old lubricants are not causing a problem than they might be left alone. If the shutter is so dirty that the grime has fouled the function completely then of course it will need to be cleaned. In order to completely disassembly the lens and subsequently the shutter, to remove all old lubricants and to clean every part, and then make adjustments and repairs where applicable, would be akin to an overhaul and would require far more detail than what was covered in this short video.
Fix Old Cameras thanks! Sounds like a job for a pro.
Not necessarily... depends on what needs to be done. However if you are interested in getting it repaired... visit
www.phototronic.biz/services.html
Hi. First of all thank you very much for your videos. I need your help for something that I ve never seen in any tutorial.. I had to change the shutter of a 80 t* just like the one on the video but I never found how to replace ot properly.
The blades don't want to fully open. I tried, tried and tried again to understand why on earth it woukd not get normally opened. Could you please give me the tip?
I remind that once I found it, several years ago, but I can't remember it anymore and I don't have enought time to spend on it unfortunately, I woud just love to understand...
Thank you by advance
Is it possible the timing between the main shutter cocking pinion and the shutter cocking ring is slightly off?
@@FixOldCameras hi! Thanks a lot for your kind reply! I will check this! Thanks again :)
@@annonymous3871 I had the same issue. Try to realign the gears to catch different teeth of cocking pinion, one before or one after should do
how much it cost to clean the lens？
Hello again, I recently purchased a Bell and Howell Dial 35 (version 2) That has a problem with the clockwork motor film advance. The shutter, meter, aperture, and all other components aside from the film advance are working properly. I do not know how to get to it, I am assuming the problem is being caused the lubricants inside. I simply need to find a way to remove the clockwork motor. I cannot find a repair manual anywhere and I need some help. I have seen several other people with this problem. The motor, when wound, makes all the right sounds, but the spool winds at random, even when the sprockets inside are advanced. I do not know how to fix this. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Remove the back cover plate. Find the double stack of set screws inside the film door next to the film spool where the Winding Grip attaches to the body. Remove set screws. The Winding Grip is removed by turning counter clockwise (left). A cautionary note - Make certain the winding spring is unwound before removing the Winding Grip. A disassembly diagram of the Dial 35 is viewable on the Google Plus page of Fix Old Cameras
Ok. I got the grip off. What do I do next? The problem is that the spool nonsensically jumps at random times, and doesn't move smoothly. It is very jerky. What should I do with the motor once it is off? Thank you for your help thus far.
You might be able to flush clean the internal of the Winding Grip.Follow up with a very small amount of silicone lubricant . The wind gears and mechanism of the camera body might also need to be checked.
Thank you! You have saved yet another camera. Thank you so much for your help.
Excellent.
Very interesting video.
I would like to know where I can buy the Drive Spring 1 (parts # 102211-1515-000) that appears in the video at minute no. 2:50 of the video.
Thank you
The last batch acquired came direct from Hasselbad... but FixOldCmeras does not resell parts. Could be that Hasselblad no longer makes them available. Surely they are available from different internet sources if they are no longer available from Hasselblad. Guessing they might sell for $30 to maybe $40.
@@FixOldCameras Thanks
How can we contact you for repair and cleanings? Id like to support!
phototronic.biz/
Hello, I've been repairing camera since 40 years now and I would like to contact you, so could you please drop contact information ?
- From India
Warning! If you don’t know in details about your lens, please DO NOT follow the steps in this video. This video is a simplified video probably for professionals who don’t need other details, this video didn’t mention a lot of other details and steps to check before reassembling. You would be in deep trouble if you follow this simplified video. And I am one of them!
Man, I really like your videos, but this one is no good. The placement of the slow speed escapement is critical to the timing of the shutter. I get it, not everyone has a set of calipers laying around to measure, but there should at least be a note about this affecting the timing. The long screw that holds down the slow speed escapement is a pivot. You tilt the escapement toward the center to slow the shutter speeds and away to speed them up, then tighten down the short screw to lock it in. It's also important to note that this placement affects 1/30th and up, so with this thing out of place all speeds will be off. Lastly, there is another control fin on the opposite side of the escapement from the main spring that needs to be seated properly. You can put it all back together even if you dont, and the shutter will activate, but again, all your timings will be off.
This is all information that I sourced from the Hasselblad repair manual, but unfortunately for me, it wasn't until after I followed this tutorial. So please, if you don't want to remake the video, at least include a note about the timing issues with this repair.
Anyone else trying to follow this tutorial, please be aware of these issues. There are other videos that address these issues in greater detail if you keep looking.
I would not try this myself for sure....
Thank you for the comment and for your interest in Fix Old Cameras.
At 3:17 no, don't do that. Oil has no place in a Compur shutter and even if it did that's way, way too much. It will end up on the shutter blades, the diaphragm blades and the glass surfaces. That gear train should only ever be lubricated with graphite powder, with the excess thoroughly blown out. But first clean it thoroughly in lighter fluid. Other than a tiny amount (literally a smear) of molybdenum sulphide paste on the sliding surfaces of cams and levers, no other lubricant is needed in a properly cleaned leaf shutter. The golden rule is that leaf shutter repairs are all about cleaning and not about lubricating.
While these videos contain some useful views inside cameras and lenses, the repair methods are almost completely worthless. It's worse than that, in fact, because the short term fixes are mostly kludges and not repairs. A proper repair would involve completely disassembling the shutter, cleaning it and rebuilding and a quality lens of this type is worth the effort but nobody on this channel seems to have the skill or patience necessary. In a few years time this lens will be unusable. Maybe that's the intention: a quick kludge to get it working again well enough to sell on eBay.
There is a golden rule of leaf shutter repairs? To paraphrase “do unto others as you would have done to you”… hmmm how about that. Had to look up the meaning of “kludge”, it was not in the two volume World Book Dictionary… but on Wikipedia this is what was found. “A kludge or kluge (/klʌdʒ, kluːdʒ/) is a workaround or quick-and-dirty solution that is clumsy, inelegant, inefficient, difficult to extend and hard to maintain. This term is used in diverse fields such as computer science, aerospace engineering, internet slang, evolutionary neuroscience, and government.” It figures it is an internet slang and is pretty rough, especially considering the Fix Old Cameras channel about statement… “Fix Old Cameras produces step by step up close videos of simple, common repairs and basic maintenance on classic and vintage cameras. Work a-rounds and short cuts that might go outside of typical camera repair procedures are also demonstrated. These techniques are not always considered a permanent fix, but allow for someone with limited tools and experience the possibility of getting their camera functioning again.”
The Compur Shutter Service Manual (Compur-Werk Munchen) makes no mention or listing of graphite powder or molybdenum sulphide paste as an approved lubricant in the Lubricating Chart(CS-1912-206), however an oil designated as PDP-38 is listed. The recommended cleaning solvents are trichloroethylene or tetrachloro-ethylene. Probably not going to be able to obtain any of their recommended products. A gentler and safe to all plastic degreaser and cleaner is 91% or better yet 99% isopropyl alcohol. You did not mention rather you are using charcoal lighter fluid or Naphtha (for Zippo lighters or paint thinner) to clean the Compur shutters you are repairing. Not to imply that your technique you outlined would not work, for it seems as if it should. But, as comparison the Asahi/Honeywell Pentax Spotmatic series manual recommends on page 52 using light oil on the governor(escapement) pivot points. Without looking up anymore page numbers, you will find similar oiling instructions in the manuals of that era for Canon, Nikon, Minolta, etc. and along with the training lessons of National Camera Institute.
Over extended time, perhaps decades, considering all conditions of use, lubricants, even those installed at the factory can and do migrate to other areas of the shutter.
Thank you for taking the time to comment and for your passing acknowledgement as to the usefulness of some of the video shots of the inner workings of the featured cameras. As far as unstated intentions and your perception of the skill and patience needed and available for what you judge or deem as a proper or improper repair you can only speculate and hope.
Saying that oil has no place in a compur shutter is wrong. However in this video too much of it was applied! The excess should have been removed before reassembly or an oiler should have been used in the first place. Extract from the compur shutter repair manual:
"If the escapement was cleaned without disassembly, the bearings of the gears and detent must be lightly lubricated with PDP 38. Then remove any traces of oil from the plates, particularly from the underside of the lower plate 302, by means of a soft rag. If necessary, lightly lubricate the gear teeth with the oil mixture us ing a brush. Toke care to avoid the fo rmation of oil drops."
Exclusively dry lubricating a synchro compur is possible, however graphite powder has long been replaced as a dry lubricant for leaf shutters with MoS2. Mainly because of the graphite's abrasive properties that MoS2 doesn't have.
@@MrRobot-om9mz The manual to which you refer was written at a time when the professional users of such shutters would have had them cleaned and serviced on a regular basis. They are no longer made and the people who still own them, inherit them or buy them second hand expect them to sit idle for months and continue to work for years without being serviced. Oil is a bad lubricant because the volatile fractions evaporate and become redeposited on broad, flat surfaces, such as shutter and diaphragm blades, leaving behind a waxy fraction that gums together the parts it was intended to lubricate. I draw your attention to the last paragraph of your quote. Dry molybdenum disulphide paste, very sparingly applied after very thorough cleaning with naphtha, is the correct modern solution as it does a better job than oil, does not degenerate and does not migrate. On the subject of graphite, it's less damaging than oil but the excess needs to be thoroughly blown out.
@@johnm2012 a modern synthetic oil applied in the right quantities at the right places will not migrate or evaporate in a way that will cause complete havoc in a leaf shutter. yes it may dry out but it will not seize as their organic counterparts used to do at the time.
just think of what the molybdenum disulphide is suspended in when in paste form? mineral oil. following your logic it shouldn't be applied either due to outgassing. but then again applied in the correct quantities as you mentioned, it is not a real life issue. if you want to be really "modern" about it you go for a grease that has a specified evaporation loss of 0,1% at 16h/70°C. Losimol and Klüber are your friends, if you can source them.
my last paragraph is in regards to the escapement and the usage of molly powder instead of graphite. with that method oil can be left out entirely.