Why MLB's Last .400 Hitter Didn't Win MVP
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มิ.ย. 2024
- Ted Williams is the last hitter to hit over .400 in a season in 1941, but with his efforts, he did not win MVP. Joe DiMaggio took the award home thanks in part to his 56-game hit streak, though Williams led in many categories. Williams had a faulty relationship with the media and this in part led to him losing out on the MVP in the two years he won the triple crown in 1942 and 1947.
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Those who voted for MVP back then didn’t like Williams because he wouldn’t kiss their asses.
Exactly.
@@waynejohanson1083 No. That wasn't the main reason.
And he wasn't a Yankee
MVP, like HoF, was a POPULARITY contest. It's not that DiMaggio didn't have an MVP-worthy season, he DID...but Williams was simply BETTER, even during "Joltin' Joe's" fabled 56-game hitting streak.
Williams almost hit .400 again in 1957. He finished .388 at 39
If I recall, he missed .400 by only 12 hits. Williams by then had all the speed of a snail, and he commented that if he'd been younger he could easily have legged out 12 grounders for hits.
Probably the best season by any player at that age until Bonds
I have to downvote that, comparing an honest players season to a cheater is not legitimate.
@@GeraldM_inNCone of the complaints about Williams was it was a war year, his 57 season shut them up.
He couldn't run in '57 and always believed it was a better year than the '41 season. Considering he turned 39 years old in August I would have to agree. No one in MLB history has had a better hitting season at such an advanced age particularly in the live ball era.
If MLB had the sac fly rule in 1941 Williams would have batted .413.
Actually .417...I'm a nerd
@@gregtaylor113 In 1941 Williams had 456 at bats, with 185 hits, for a .405701 average. He had 8 RBI fly-outs. If those 8 RBI fly-outs did not count as at-bats, he would have had 185 hits in 448 at-bats, for a .412946 average.
That's a great point that I had forgotten about. He's the only .400 hitter in a year without the Sac Fly rule.
You mentioned the most interesting aspect of that season...Williams outhit DiMaggio during DiMaggio's streak AND his average dropped during that stretch.
How is this interesting? A streak don’t even mean you are playing well. Just consistent.
Real respect to Ted for telling the media to screw off after they told him how terrible he was for not seeing his family during the off season. I totally get that. My family growing up was super drama heavy and Im someone that likes peace and quiet and just wants to be left alone.
It is none of the media's business what he does in the off season. It is his life and he is entitled to his private life.
Did the media ever tell us how terrible Mickey Mantle was for being a drunk and career underachiever?
@@RayManzarekRocks It's ok, he was a Democrat!
It's incredible that Williams had two triple crowns plus a .406 season and didn't win MVP in any of them
Makes you wonder if the baseball writers did not like him.
Sports writers didn't like Boston.
corruption. lack of integrity.
It has only been the past couple of decades that the writers voted for the best player. previously a player had to be on a team that went to the World Series. That is why Willie Mays only won two MVP and Hank Aaron one during their careers.
@@stevenmeyer9674 you sure about that? what period of time are we talking about? Obviously they stopped it by 1986 since Mike Schmidt was named NL MVP. I wonder when it ended.
Joe Gordon winning the MVP is insane. I get The Yankees was a dynasty in those days but his stats weren’t good compared to Ted Williams.
It was won by Joltin' Joe DiMaggio in 41 largely because of the 56-game hitting streak which is pretty fing hard to do, too.
You have proved how forgettable Gordon is by misspelling his name.
@@tomcat4841 oh shut up, it was mistake. There it’s fix so this comment is irrelevant now.
@@zoeledwards6617 Aren't we sensitive! Take your Fentanyl and have a lie down.
Man, can you imagine a team with both Joe D and Williams in the outfield?
Underrated and misunderstood.
If not for his military service, he would have hit over 600 HRs with over 4,000 hits.
DiMaggio had the 56 game streak. During this 56 game streak, Williams outhit him and had a better batting average.
Much like Eddie Murray who you did a video on earlier Williams was a victim of the media.
What happened with him?
We're all victims of the media now
he was the best hitter in baseball hands down,,,,,,
Ted Williams’ lifetime OPS+ was 191.
His last year, 1960, when he was 42, he managed an OPS+ of 190.
His lifetime OB % was .482.
The greatest pure hitter ever? Look no further than Ted Williams.
Greatest hitter who ever lived.
At least top 2. Ted has the greatest hitter of all-time as Babe. So, do you go by what you've seen of Ted. Or since there's no real video, or at least not alot of video, so do you go by your eyes with Ted or do you go by what Ted says? Just food for thought. NO wrong answer if you chose either one.
@@isthiswherewecamein6130 I believe they are now saying Josh Gibson was the greatest hitter.
Barry Bonds, Josh Gibson, Oscar Charles, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and Albert Pujols are the greatest hitters to have ever lived.
@@mastermace7770Bonds and Pujols?? Steroid kings like Piazza, McGuire etc. etc...
@@mastermace7770Looks like you like your coffee black and bitter.
Ted Williams 406 season batting average and Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak are 2 MLB records that will never be broken in my opinion!
In 1941 Dimaggio and Williams struck out a COMBINED total of only 40 times!!!
The '41 Yankees did not need DiMaggio to win the pennant. They won it by 17 games in a non-competitive league. DiMaggio had a 9.3 WAR that season. Now do the math . . .
With today's rules, Ted Williams would of hit .415
Back then the sacrifice fly rule was not in effect.
Best pure hitter of all time. Imagine if he could have played those 5 & 1/2 seasons he lost in his prime by serving his country at war. Imagine his stats!
The definition of the award for in those days was “the player who contributed the most to his team’s success.”
In the era of two leagues who produced a single team to go to the World Series, that generally meant a player on the winning team.
The award, specifically, does not require the team of the MVP to win the Championship or even make the playoffs. But, if one wants to play that game, there is a stat whose very purpose is to gauge the value of a player to his team.
1941: WAR
Williams 10.4
Dimaggio 9.3
Soooo, not only did Williams have better stats, he contributed 1 extra win to the Red Sox compared to Dimaggio's contribution to the Yankees.
@@bauerj3398 I’m sure his WAR was a little higher, although, not that much.
Which is irrelevant, since the only war anyone was talking about involved Germany.
But I was explaining the thinking of the time.
You’re the one playing “the game” of applying modern logic and practices to something that happened over 80 years ago.
@@tomdeangelo7792 I am confused. You say that it was higher, but not that much. Those are the exact numbers. And the point of those numbers is to dismiss the notion that Dimaggio provided more value to his team simply because his team was better.
@@bauerj3398 you’re talking about a 1.1 difference in a stat that didn’t exist at the time.
The Yankees finished 17 games ahead of Boston, with the Yankees jumping from 4th to 1st during the streak, a lead they never relinquished.
Why is it so difficult for you to understand their way of thinking? Success was determined by wins vs losses, and finishing 1st.
You don’t have to agree with it.
@@tomdeangelo7792 I am talking about a stat with a 12% difference that specifically measures what we are talking about. And the most important thing? We are not just talking WAR. We are talking about who had the best season, and that was Williams. So, Williams had the better season, and the only rationalization that they come up with is the 'most valuable to the team' and now that is shown to be B.S. by Williams having a significantly higher WAR.
I understand their way of thinking. I know exactly why Dimaggio won. Why is it so difficult for you to understand that their 'way of thinking' had no basis in fact or even un-biased judgement?
I'll take "the 56-game hitting streak captivated the nation, nobody thought at the time it would never happen again since the last was 11 years removed, and the Yankees won the pennant by 17 games that year" for 100, Alex.
I'm actually ok with Dimagio winning it in '41. It could've went either way and I'd be like ok. BUT,in '42? Come on!! Not even close. Led league in, BA, HR, R.B.I, BB,SLG, OBP, OBPS!! Like how does he NOT in it that year? I understand the Yankee lore, and all that, but, has anyone EVER led the league in ALL of those categories in the same season? Like before or since? I'd be shocked if they have. I'd be willing to bet half of everything I'm worth to bet I'm right about this.
I checked baseball reference because I was curious, and Babe Ruth never did it because of his average, and Barry Bonds never did it because of his RBI's. Technically you're wrong though. After a systematic check of triple crown winners, there was one other instance where a player led the league in all those categories... In 1947... Ted Williams did it again, and again lost the MVP to Joe Dimagio.
Just another reason why people have despised NY and the Yankees for decades. I'm not ok with DiMaggio winning in '41. He had a nice year, hit .357, Williams at .406. Ted's OBP was .553, more than 10 points higher than Joe's. .553!!! That's insane! Half his hits were probably balls outa the strike zone. One was in NY, married actresses, was mentioned in song, was a media darling. The other, not so much.
Judge very nearly led in all those categories 2 years ago. His average dropped in the last 2 weeks while chasing the AL home run record and he finished 2nd in BA.
And it took a season like that to beat Ohtani performing to his expectation. Because that's how good Ohtani is.
@@peteshallcross787 DiMaggio had a *nice year* ?? Well, if THAT isn't the understatement of the last 200 years. A year in which Joe D. had a 56 game hitting streak , a record that likely will never be broken.
Williams played in a bandbox of a ballpark (Fenway), whereas, DiMaggio played in a massive Yankee Stadium, death to RH power hitters. This was the OLD Yankee Stadium, before the '73/'74 renovations, yet still Joe hit 30 HR's/125 RBI's. The edge goes to Williams in OBP and the power stats, however, DiMaggio played a more difficult position (CF vs LF), had better speed, was a better baserunner and was clearly better in the field. The Yankee Clipper would have won gold gloves had they been awarded in the 1940's. Not the case with Williams. These are good reasons why DiMaggio was MVP.
@@jamesanthony5681 Well, Joltin Joe married actresses and his name is mentioned in songs, lol. Williams was a lefthanded pull hitter so the green monster had no advantage. Probably half his hits were out of the strike zone cuz pitchers could pitch around him, unlike DiMaggio. They both had records that year that will never be touched. I agree on the fielding end as a southpaw I played CF and RF for a long time. Yep, Joe had a great year but let's face it, one was a media darling, the other not so much. Kinda like Biden and Trump, hahaha! I still give Teddy the edge and I enjoy arguing with Yankee fans who are knowledgeable baseball fans. Cheers from the beer state, James!
gotta wonder what ted's final numbers wouldve been had he not lost years to service in both ww2 and korea
If he had not missed those seasons due to WW2 and the Korean War he may hold several records .
More than several lol
Williams was a combat fighter pilot. Nor in the re
Williams was a fighter pilot in combat. Not in the rear with the gear or in a PR position.
Ted Williams doesn’t get much love in the GOAT conversation, which is a crime
At 1:39 it is mentioned that Williams played 139 games in 1939, but the screen image displays 149 games. That error gets corrected by 1:45. At 14:49 the author extrapolates career stats for Williams had he not missed games in service to his country, yet he uses a 162 game schedule, which did not exist during Ted's playing career. Still, nice job. We shouldn't lament the "lost" years. They weren't lost; service to one's country is a higher calling. Nothing takes away from the notion that Ted Williams is one of the greatest baseball players of all time and arguably its greatest pure hitter.
And, in Korea his wingman was... John Glenn.
Interesting facts.
The Red Sox won the 1918 World Series September 11 1918. Ted Williams was born August 30 1918.
The Red Sox didn't win another World Series until 2004, Ted Williams died in 2002.
He was able to hit for some much power as a lanky guy because of his lead arm dominant swing. Jaime Cevallos talks about it constantly.
I’ve been a Yankee since I was old enough to remember anything. I always admired the Red Sox, my favorite players were Jim Rice followed by the Yaz Followed by Dwight Evans. I live in Florida now and I was finally able to go to Fenway Park and it was like going to church. I wish I would’ve seen Williams play, but it was way before my time. A lot of the best redsox players end up as Yankees.
He will always be the greatest in my estimation
And your estimation is correct.
If you think sports lournalism is crap today, you wouldn't believe how bad those baseball writers were. Thank God they no longer get to set the all star lineup.
You could justify Dimaggio being more valuable in '41 because he was an elite center fielder while Williams was a mediocre left fielder. But the '42 snub was a travesty.
Ahhh, not really. And what about Marilyn?
@@peteshallcross787 How can you say "not really"? It has long been accepted that if two players put up similar stats, the more valuable one is the one who plays the more defensively-demanding position especially if he plays it well.
@@GeraldM_inNC Hey Gerald, love NC, my bro lives there. Joe had a nice year, to say he was a streaky hitter is an understatement. True, he had a more demanding fielding position but the batting stats are ridiculously in favor of Ted. Williams was 50 points higher than DiMaggio and Ted's OBP was .553, over 100 points higher than Joe's. .553!!! Always pitching around Ted. I wonder how many hits he had from balls out of the strike zone. The Yanks were so stacked they probably would have been champs without DiMaggio. One was a media darling, the other, not so much. Just another reason why people for decades despise NY and the Yankees . Cheers!
@@peteshallcross787 Williams never had a lineup around him comparable to any Yankee lineup. He didn't have all that much to drive in before him and never had anyone suitable behind him to protect the other team from pitching around him. Take Williams out of those lineups and they were mediocre.
@@GeraldM_inNC Agreed Gerald, more evidence how outstanding Ted was. The best hitter ever, imo. The greatest player ever imo was my boyhood idle who we lost this week. He's running in the outfield heavens right now I believe. RIP #24
Ted would have gotten MVP during almost any season other than Joltin"Joes hit streak !
He wasn't a Yankee. The end.
THANK GOD....Yankees suck...
Another reason why awards are not the true measure of the greatness of a player. In fact, they're a waste of time. I don't need a committee to tell me who's great.
His statistics and conduct as a Marine Corps fighter pilot are even more impressive than his baseball stats.
The press like DiMaggio much more than Williams and the press does the voting. It helped that the Yankees went to the World Series. Ted also won the triple crown one year and lost the MVP to, I think, Joe Gordon.
Not on topic but I always admired Ted William's looks. Handsome guy
The greatest hitter that ever lived period. Somewhere in an alternate universe, WW2 and korea doesn’t happen and Ted is better than babe Ruth for ages. But in this universe, the media treated him so poorly.
And in 1998 McGwire who broke the record for most HR in season did not get the MVP.
Even to this day, MVP is usually awarded to the best player on the first place team. For most of Williams' career, the first place team was the Yankees. If Williams hit 100 HR in a season, it would not have mattered. One notable exception to the unwritten MVP rule was Alex Rodriguez winning MVP in 2003, not only playing for a last-place team, but his contract was the main reason why his team finished last because they could not afford pitching. In some ways, the MVP was the LVP.
That's a bald-faced lie. First place is not a qualification for the award.
@@RayManzarekRocks Then it's just an incredible coincidence that the MVP is usually from the first place team. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, but more often than not, that's the way it is. Go look it up and prove yourself wrong.
@@djcavanaugh That's a lie. There have never been a BBWWA HOF guideline that stipulates any candidate must be a member of a first-place team. In fact, MORE THAN 20 PLAYERS WON THE AWARD WHILE ON TEAMS THAT FINISHED LOWER THAN SECOND PLACE. Two Cubs players accomplished this with teams that were fifth (Banks twice) and sixth (Dawson).
1:40 I hear 139 games played but the numbers display has 149.
A somewhat similar situation decided by NYY bias will come up with Dustin Pedroia’s HoF candidacy. If Phil Rizutto is in, Dustin deserves to be in - twice. Beats him overwhelmingly in nearly every category.
Damn Yankees! Williams also excelled as a pilot in the military and was recognized as an outstanding fly fisherman. Freeze him! DiMaggio was a jerk, stated by Mantle who Joey was jealous of. And what about Marilyn, lol?
Ted Williams was actually a real life John Wayne movie hero.
Ted Williams is among the two greatest players with what-ifs attached to their records. The other is Mickey. The reasons are slightly different, though; Ted's was honorable, whereas Mickey's was just sad.
Look at the time Williams missed doing military service. Imagine what is all time numbers might have been.
When MVP are determined by some of the most unathletic people on earth you get this.😂
all the comments are good. Why? Because we'll talking baseball.
So true. It feels good.
The word "valuable" does not mean the best. I know looking at stats makes it easier to choose because it makes the decision more objective. And based on offensive stats, Williams had the better season. But, maybe DiMaggio brought more value to his team than Williams did to his team. The Yanks had a better season than the Sox. In 1979, Willie Stargell and Keith Hernandez were co-MVPs. Hernandez had better stats than Stargell, except for HRs and slugging percentage. Stargell only had 424 ABs and Hernandez had 610. Heck, Dave Parker, Stargell's teammate, had better stats than Willie in most categories. But Stargell brought a lot of value to the Pirates in the form of intangibles, such as leadership, and it showed in the fact that the Pirates won the World Series and the Cardinals did not. Stargell may have been one of the least deserving MVPs in terms of stats, but no one can argue that he was very valuable to the success the Pirates had that season.
IMO, the best hitter ever.
Nobody will hit over .400 with the way the game has changed. Now it’s rare to see anyone hit over .300 and common to see people hit under .200.
They don't cultivate high-average leadoff hitters and even frequently lead off with home run hitters in order to get the more at bats. Don't get me started on my hatred of Analytics!
The same reason the NBAs last 50ppg scorer didn’t win the MVP: hate!
Ruth wasn't traded he was SOLD. That's a big difference. If he was traded who did they get back for him?
Great point. What did they get back.
He was sold so the owner could finance a Broadway play
At 4:49, it doesn't seem like the OPS is correct.
1059
I mean playing video games is for sure unprofessional, but even post 2000 there were pitching staffs getting drunk instead of being in the bench with the team. Fortnite isn’t ideal but I guess it could be worse?
Good enough of a pilot to be Chuck Yeager’s wingman.
Zack Hample is a star too.
First of all, awesome vid. I love your stuff. I will say this though. I don't mean to be so pedantic, but when you showed Williams in a Senators jersey, that's the one that became the Texas Rangers, not the one that was the Nationals and became the Twins. Just sayin'.
Good job. Are the current Athletics descendants of the old American League Philadelphia Athletics? I lost track of all that.
@@steverenom.299 Yep. Philadelphia Athletics moved to Kansas City, then to Oakland.
@@SleapeeHed Thanks again. Can I bug you some more? Are the old Houston Colt 45's the same team as the
current Houston Astros?
@@steverenom.299 Yes! They came into the National League in 1962 as the Colt 45s. Changed it to Astros in 1965. In 2013 they went from the National League to the American League.
@@SleapeeHed Thanks. You're better than "Alexa". Lol.
Here's the problem, the award is not Player of the Year, it's Most Valuable Player, value is a relative term. In 1972 Steve Carlton had some year, 27 wins, an ERA of 1.97, 310 strikeouts and a WAR of 12.1, what a year, with all that firepower from their ace the Phillies won 59 games finishing 6th, 11 games out of 5th place! He deserved and won the Cy Young but how valuable was his contribution relative to the overall team performance. If the Phillies had kept Rick Wise who won 16 games for the Cards, how much worst off would the team have been, the team still would have finished last. The Yankees won 101 games in 1941 winning not only the pennant but the World Series, Boston won 84 finishing 17 games behind. The award was an attempt to associate an individual's performance to the team performance. Again, rebrand the award Player of the Year and I have no issue, Ted Williams had the better year.
Here's the problem: it is value to the player's team. And your team does not have to have more wins for you to provide more value to that team. Williams had a much better season, and provided more value to the Red Sox than Dimaggio provided to the Yankees. If you want to try to play games with the wording of the award, it is Most Valuable, not Most Valuable Player for the best Team.
But hey, let's play that game. There is a stat that is used, specifically, for determining value to a team.
1941: Williams 10.4 WAR.
1941: Dimaggio 9.3 WAR.
The Red Sox were 82-72 in 1940, in 1941 with Williams record setting year the team was were 84-70, two games better. In 1940 the Yankees were 88-66, in 1941 they were 101-53, 13 games better, and they won the pennant, that's a big deal, it's a team sport, the idea is for the team to win. When the 56 game hitting streak started the Yanks were 14-14, 6.5 games out in fourth place. Boston was 13-10 in third place 4.5 games out. When the streak ended the Yanks were 55-27 (28 games over .500), in first place by 6 games. Boston on the other hand was still in third over the same two month period playing a modest four games over .500. The Yanks clinched on September 4th, at that time Boston was still languishing in third, with a record of 70-65, just 5 games over .500. The team got hot with the Yankees now focused on the World Series, and everyone else just playing out the schedule.
Again the MVP is an attempt to correlate a great season by an individual with the accomplishments of the team. The Yankees surged during DiMaggio's hitting streak, basically Williams was hot wire to wire and it meant nothing to Boston, they never were a factor, had only one good month prior to September (June 17-11), only getting hot after the pennant was decided to avoid finishing with a worse record than the year before.
Williams was the player of the year, he was not the most valuable player, his accomplishments did not correlate into anything for Boston, they were 17 games out at the finish line with basically the same record as a year earlier.
@@josephmaloney3140 And yet, Williams objectively contributed more to his team's success than Dimaggio did. Williams' year resulted in 10.4 wins above an average replacement yet, Dimaggio, 9.3 Rebrand the award, 'Best player on the Best Team Award' and you may have a point. As it stands, no.
Wasn't Carlton traded for Wise ?.
Yes, this was in the days before free agency, Carlton got into a contract dispute with St. Louis so they traded him to the Phillies straight up for Wise.
Teddy was that dude
A real life John Wayne movie hero.
your mic has some kind of scratchy metallic distortion
Didn't notice as I was listening at low volume, but you're right. It cuts out pretty frequently as well.
Yankee bias: part 1. DiMaggio had a nice streak, but Ted's on-base streak lasted half the season and he finished with a higher batting average and on-base percentage - plus more home runs, walks and runs. So the MVP is naturally... the guy with the lower numbers.
vote = popularity
GOAT
Cecil Travis had a good year too. Both he and Buddy Myer would be in the HOF if they we Yank**s
Agreed
Cecil Travis is super underrated.
And Phil Rizzuto couldn't hold Johnny Pesky's jock strap and yet he's in the HOF. When things are voted on
it's a joke a lot of the times. Just look at our current President!!!!
A 56 game hitting streak trumps hitting .406
Ted Williams .406 season didn’t get MVP. Roger Maris 61 home run season he didn’t lead the league in OPS. Mark mcgwires 70 home run season he didn’t win the MVP. Sammy Sosa did (66) but NEITHER of them lead the NL in war. Neither did Sammy Sosa. It was John olerud! Miguel Cabreras triple crown season he didn’t lead the league in OPS because Mike trout drew a TON more walks.
None of those players hit .406, brah.
to be fair WAR was not looked at at that point.
Neither will today's 400 hitter
This clearly shows the NY bias that is unfortunately still festering to this day! Ted Williams was clearly the superior player to Joe DiMaggio and certainly to Joe "freaking'" Gordon. Furthermore, Ted Williams was thee MVP in '41, '42 and '47, despite what the entitled NY d-bags said! Finally, Ted was the greatest hitter of all time.
ohtani vs ozuna
MLB promotes ohtani every possible ways
I am amazed at how many folks like to put out a video like this and don’t even know the history of the game. The Washington Senators that Williams managed became the Texas Rangers. Duh!
If Williams was a Yankee and DiMaggio was a Red Sox, we know who would have been the MVP . . .
Joe Dimaggio
For chrissakes that's the same year DiMaggio hit in straight 56 straight games and led the Yankees to the pennant.
It just goes to show that limiting or leaving out information can bias a person's opinion.
To add to your point.
.400 is an incredible feat. But it had been done before. No one has hit in 56 straight before or since, not even close.
No one knew that Ted would be, probably, the last guy to do it. They probably assumed it would happen again. And, if it had, This argument would seem a lot weaker, imo.
This is not to disrespect hitting
400 or Mr. Williams himself. It was a great feat accomplished by one of the all-time greats.
Should Ted have won the MVP in 41? Maybe. That'll be debated for as long as anyone cares about baseball.
But, imo, Ted went into the HOF. That SHOULD be a big enough honor to cover for anything he might have gotten short changed on during his career.
The '41 Yankees didn't need DiMaggio. They won the pennant by 17 games. The Red Sox were the only other team with a plus-.500 record in the league.
Teddy Ballgame > Joe D
Hard to believe a guy could hit .406 and not win MVP. It was one of the greatest seasons a hitter ever had in the history of the game. But then again DiMaggio had a great season too plus a 56 game hitting streak.
Williams is the greatest hitter not named "Ruth."
Of the live ball era. Cobb would have been hitting 40 homers in the live ball era plus stealing bases. He probably would have been the greatest. Hornsby was awesome too.
Barry Bonds, Tony Gwynn, Josh Gibson, Oscar Charles, Turkey Stearns, Albert Pujols, Willie Mays, and Hank Aaron are the greatest hitters of alltime.
Williams' and Ruth's career batting averages of .344 and .342 respectively are scary given their power hitting. Add in their unreal number of walks making them the two batters with the highest career OBP, and I have to agree with them being the two best.
@@GeraldM_inNC, batters tend to sacrifice batting average when they take harder cuts going for power. Do you think Cobb could have hit for as high an average if he would have been belting 40 homers a year? Remember that Cobb was hitting with his hands spread apart for better bat control so that he could slap the ball where he wanted.
@@johno1765 It goes without saying that if Cobb had played in the live ball era he would have sacrificed b.a. for power. BTW, Cobb said that he could have hit for power but that he didn't want to because people paid to see him steal bases. FUN FACT: The legendary "Home Run" Baker never hit more than 9 homers in a season.
The writers were unfair to Williams in many ways, but DiMaggio deserved the MVP. He was one of the greatest fielders in the game, and they did not go by WAR and other stats new, they went by RBI's, Runs scored (Which were left out in the comparison) and clutch hitting. DiMaggio was one of the all time great clutch hitters. If Ted Williams got it that year it would have been fine, he got edged out. One thing about Williams: He was a hero in 2 wars, Korea and WW2. Plus, in his final season I think he finished 5th in the league in home runs (Not certain)
Four words: 56-game hitting streak.
Even then, Williams still should have won. And this is coming from a Yankee fan.
And not to mention that during the 56 game streak, Williams hit better than Dimaggio.
@@bauerj3398 That is TRUE, as wild as it seems
DiMaggio is honestly pretty overrated. He’s still a great player, but the sportswriters were absolutely crazy for thinking he was better than Williams.
@@Jason_Voorh3es I don't know if I would go too far regarding him being overrated. Probably a top 25 player all time.
And during those 56 games Ted Williams out hit Joe D. Lol.
How do you award a MVP for any player on such a crappy team???
In ‘41 the yankees won the pennant by about 18 games. DiMaggio had his streak and was on a better team in a larger market. Ted was kind of a prickly personality
One thing you haven’t mentioned, at that time, while hitting .400 wasn’t common, it was certainly less unattainable than it is now.
The previous .400 season was about ten years before Ted’s .406 year, so it would be comparable to a .350 year in the modern game.
Extremely impressive, but not considered historic (until after the fact)
History will show that the 56-game hitting streak will be harder to surpass than batting .400. Only time will tell.
You do know that Williams outhit DiMaggio's during the 56-game streak, right?
@@RayManzarekRocks Ray Manzarek is dead.
@@drbonesshow1 The Doors will live forever. That's what legends do, brah. #GOAT
I recall reading someone using a computer baseball game to simulate various players trying to hit .400 or more and also trying to replicate or surpass DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak. Quite a few players were able to hit .400, some multiple times (Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn among the fairly recent players to do so). No one came within 10 games of DiMaggio's streak. The streak is just a much more difficult accomplishment than is hitting .400.
Much more luck involved though in a hitting streak. You left that part out.
@@steverenom.299 I'm not sure that I agree with you there.
Batting for average, you can have a day off here and there in which you go 1-for-4 or 1-for-3 and then counter that by going 4-for-5 or even 5-for-5. But if you have one bad day at the plate in a hitting streak, the streak is over.
@@Mustapha1963 What I really was alluding to is that hitting for average is really totally in your own hands. A streak sometimes
depends on other players reaching base so you can get an extra at bat to prolong the streak. As happened with Joe D. getting 9th
inning hits. Also someone else can rule on a hit or an error to prolong a streak where as that wouldn't affect a batting average too
much in the long run. Great discussion though and I can see your point.
Who gives a flying 😢😢😢😢😢😢
Who gives a flying 😢😢😢😢😢😢f
They had it right in those days...WINNING IS EVERYTHING
My take is that .400 wasn't as unbelievable at that time as it is today..34 times a player hit .400 before Williams including 3 times each by Ed Delehanty, Ty Cobb and Rogers Hornsby..So as great as it was it had been done many times before which probably played into it a bit. Also, as I believe , if you don't get to the World Series how valuable is one player?? As Branch Rickey told Ralph Kiner when he asked for a raise after leading the N.L. in Hrs 7 straight seasons.."We finished last with you, we can finish last without you ".
One could make a reasonable argument for Cobb and Hornsby having been the two greatest hitters.
Written like a true Yankee fan. Steve Carlton won the Cy Young with a 27-10 record on a last place team. How do you think Kiner would have done on a stacked team like say, the Yankees? He deserved more money, period!
Great point.
@@peteshallcross787 Of course he did..but owners and GMs held all the cards then since there was no free agency..take the money or find another job..Actually Rickey wanted to cut Kiner's salary.
@@ricardocortese3838 I commend you for knowing your history Ricardo, but actually .400 WAS unbelievable back then! Sac flies were counted as outs and Williams had a lot of them. .553 OBP! That's insane! It's been 80+ years, no one will ever match those stats, even with the bigger and faster players, live balls and ballparks built for offense. I rest my case.
Very simple. He wasn't Joe Demaggio , & he wasn't a high priced Yankee
They say Joe's 56 game hit streak was more impressive, both feats will never be duplicated again.
Talk to the press who were covering Williams and not feeling they were treated properly. If he wanted the MVP so much, he could have played up for it. I suspect he didn't care enough to change his methods.
He was generally stubborn. He refused to try to drive in more runs, when people were criticizing him for taking walks when an RBI was desperately. (He played most of his career without a strong #5 behind him.) And he refused to take the free singles offered him by the shift.
The press should be doing their jobs properly and not worrying about their own feelings getting hurt. The Boston sportswriter who didn't put him in his top 10 the year he won the Triple Crown should've been stripped of his privileges to vote. I don't know if he was, but he should've been.
@@GeraldM_inNC He had a lot of RBIs in the 1940s, when he had better lineups around him. But in the 50s their lineups weren't as good, so he had fewer RBIs. He also played in fewer games per season towards the end.
@@mbd501 They, whoever they were, should have run that by Williams. I'm interested in what he would have said.
@@kevinbergin9971 I once read his autobiography years ago. He wrote about his bad relations with the press in there.
I wrote the following comment before I watched a very predictable vid. Williams did’nt get along (or talk to) any of the writers because he thought they were jerks. On this point he was most likely correct. Joe DiMaggio on the other hand talked and got along with the writers, he was a Yankee and he to still has an unbroken 1941 record, it’s called a 56 game hitting streak. This type of vid pops up every now and then and anyone (no matter their age) with just a little bit of baseball knowledge knows the answer to this question. I still watched the vid to see if there was any startling new info but there wasn’t. That sealed its fate as a thumbs down from me.
So you agree that Joe D. was really just a kiss ass. Lol.
Williams was clearly robbed I 1942
I'm willing to bet that there has been a player who has gone 1 for 2 (.500) or 2 for 4 for the first game of the season and then gotten injured, ending the season with a .500 average. It sounds pedantic, but it's important to be specific.
Ted batted .400 with a minimum # of _____ at bats...
Well……. If you don’t have enough at bats, BY RULE you don’t qualify for league leader in any stats
So, no, someone who batted .500 in only a few at bats doesn’t even qualify for their batting average to count for the league leader/batting titles
This isn’t just statisticians drawing an arbitrary cutoff, this is specifically in the rules
The minimum number of "plate appearances" a player needs in a 162-game season is 502. Williams played during 154 game seasons, had 464 ABs, in 143 games during 1941. For "total plate appearances", add 147 walks, 3 hit by pitches, and consider the changed rule on sacrifices.
9.22 Minimum Standards for Individual Championships
(a) The individual batting, slugging or on-base percentage champion shall be the player with the highest batting average, slugging percentage or on-base percentage, as the case may be, provided the player is credited with as many or more total appearances at the plate in league championship games as the number of games scheduled for each Club in his Club’s league that season, multiplied by 3.1 in the case of a Major League player and by 2.7 in the case of a National Association player. Total appearances at the plate shall include official times at bat, plus bases on balls, times hit by pitcher, sacrifice hits, sacrifice flies and times awarded first base because of interference or obstruction. Notwithstanding the foregoing requirement of minimum appearances at the plate, any player with fewer than the required number of plate appearances whose average would be the highest, if he were charged with the required number of plate appearances shall be awarded the batting, slugging or on-base percentage championship, as the case may be.
You must be a Biden voter to actually be this stupid. Lol.
Williams was half Mexican.
When you need votes being an A-hole matters.
It doesn't seem to matter for Lebron.
Karma thats why. Williams was a prick to the Red Sox fans and he kept the bat on his shoulders in his only world series against the Cardinals in 1946. All he did was walk over and over again in that world series. Loser
If the other team is not giving you hittable pitches, what else can you do? Take the walk to get on base and wait for some offense from your teammates. It's the right plan for the situation.
In that series, clearly the other team was pitching around Williams, willing to concede him walks to avoid worse damage. Sabermetrics guys will invariably argue this is bad strategy - a walk is usually as good as a hit and often results in easy runs. Don't blame Williams for accepting the free tickets to first - he was giving his team their best chance to win. Baseball is like backgammon - even if you can make the best percentage plays, you can still lose if the dice are cold.
Yeah well that was the SAME YEAR DIMAGGIO HIT IN 56 CONSECUTIVE GAMES SO ITS UNDERSTANDABLE WHY WILLIAMS DIDNT GET MVP !