.380 Full Metal Jacket in Ballistic Gel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Penetration test of .380 ACP full metal jacket in a diluted form of SIM-TEST Ballistic Testing Media. Cartridges tested are from Federal ( round nose) and Winchester (flat nose or truncated cone); both are 95 grains. This format is comparable to calibrated ballistic gel, and includes four layers of denim. Video includes brief overview of the cartridge, recoil shots, and one shot test of each cartridge. Post-shot evaluation shows bullet paths through the block. Test gun was a Bersa Thunder 380 Plus, 3.5" barrel. Advertised muzzle velocity of both cartridges is 955 fps.
VERY IMPORTANT INFO REGARDING AMMO TESTS ON THIS CHANNEL:
Please understand that these techniques are merely representations to indicate possible ballistics; they are not intended to replicate real-world street results. Even by adding bone, additional clothing, etc., there are just too many factors involved in a self-defense scenario to offer a 100% degree of accuracy when compared to street results. It is essential to perform exhaustive research on your carry choice, which could yield actual use data. The law-abiding citizen bears ultimate responsibility for their ammunition choice and insuring reliability in their handgun.
IMPORTANT: This test is for educational purposes and your evaluation. I am NOT advocating or suggesting the use of full metal jacket loads for self-defense.
rumble.com/use...
I’m so tired of the 4 layers of denim. I mean honestly realistically it should be one layer of shirt or jacket. The denim stops all expansions and penetration. I understand it’s “standard” but in a defense situation I’m almost positive no one wears 4 pairs of jeans on at one time. Smh.
And I'm so tired of the ignorant comments on the topic. Do some research. "No one wears 4 pairs of jeans"......the layers simulate heavy cloth, worse-case scenario. I agree, shirt, jacket, t-shirt are real-world. However, I'm only applying a "standard" to maintain a reasonable element of consistency with professional controlled testing. If you have a better solution, please.....put it to work and sell it to every ammo company, law enforcement agency, etc., that has adhered to the "standard" for decades. You can accept this fact, do something different, or sit on the sidelines and piss and moan about it. SMH.
It’s not ignorant. I’ve done plenty of research and I’m not disappointed in your channel. But ease up on calling me ignorant. First off. There are channels out there such as Paul Harrell who creates a realistic test on ammo, your running standards of heavy clothing I understand but 4 layers of denim is extreme. I have watched your channel for a while for ammo review but it’s hard to go off of these standards most use when using heavy denim when it comes to hollow points they are consistently getting discredited, and they are a lot of good ammo especially 380 defense ammo. As a viewer wanting to learn more and watch read and research I’m tired of people saying “this hollow point does horrible expansion etc” when they get plugged with 4 LAYERS OF DENIM. Yet if you shoot a water jug and or bare ballistic Gelatin they expand just fine. I understand you take pride in your work and you should it’s hard creating videos editing and what not but clear from calling me ignorant just because I disagree with the “standard” which was put in place by super extreme situations which is a rarity in most statistics when it comes to defense ammo and shootings. Etc.
And that’s also the problem. The standard has been around for decades but these ammo company’s don’t just put out ammo that won’t expand calling it defense ammo for nothing just to be discredited because some guy wants to use an ancient method of testing ammo. Try sig 380 hollow points. I Put money on it with one shirt test with ballistic gelatin. Then a jacket one shirt and gelatin they expand at 7 yards. Yet if you use 4 layers of denim I’m sure the results are horrible. Hell... use a 2.8 inch barrel Taurus spectrum for all I care and see the results. Being a viewer, researcher and avid collector and shooter, just because a “standard” of testing ammo has been around for law enforcement military and federal installments, YOUR AUDIENCE isn’t going to sign a contract with a company to ensure millions of dollars are going to be purchased. Your audience are 2nd amendment advocates who conceal and want defensive rounds that work, and just because I say the old standard of how such and such tests ammo is flawed in this time in age with technological differences in ammo since the standard was created don’t make me ignorant bud.
@@WastedTTV In that case I will retract the "ignorant" point, but you really put yourself on display with the "4 pairs of jeans" phrase....which is a trigger point for myself and countless others. I stand by the use of 4 layers of denim for consistency but acknowledge anyone's testing protocol to not use that standard.....and I'm OK with that. All data points are useful.
A line of water jugs, trash can full of water, etc. will always max the expansion of a round. If a JHP fails to expand in water, that's a problem. I've shot hundreds of rounds into a 60 gallon trash can, shooting down from a deck, and there have been examples of a JHP simply blowing apart, yet it does well in gel. Bare gel in professional tests usually shows greater expansion and less penetration compared to denim shots. Also relative to water, I've shot the street-credentialed 9mm Winchester 127 gr +P+ into wetpack or gel/denim and have encountered a high degree of failures to expand. Shot the same round into water and it expanded to nearly an inch. Shot the non-bonded Golden Saber into anything and there is jacket separation, which with that round is reasonably consistent with street results.
Regardless of what standards are used, it pretty much goes out the door on the street. Various clothing layers, angle of shot, BMI, bone, etc. Gel, bare or covered is just an average (at best) representation of body composition. From reading video comments (including on Paul Harrell's channel) and those in forums, there appears to be more people discrediting gel testing.....regardless of who does it. Paul Harrell has also commented on this channel in the past.
And a serous question......how do you feel about shooting only meat? I've considered doing that if I ever did this again.....the channel has been dormant for 2 1/2 years.
tnoutdoors9 I’m sorry we got off on the wrong foot, a professional conversation in person comes out a lot better then “typing on the internet” it shows no real emotion considering what’s said and I apologize for the trigger comment. I just as a person who conceal and carry 9mm, and also pocket carry .380 the ammo aspect I feel as if the ammo such as hst and sig hollow points are great defensive rounds in both calibers. I won’t tell you how to run your channel because you yourself have said it best... you made the channel and created a very successful in my eyes platform for many such as myself to enjoy. So thank you. It would just be nice when using these ammos the ammo would also be compared to maybe a more realistic situation including summer time and winter time defensive situations. Most knowledgeable and responsible gun owners if put in a life threatening situation will shoot center mass, not legs and usually not head unless it’s just simply available in the situation and it’s all that can be done. I am no video creator myself so I can not judge what goes behind the editing and testing and video collection, I would if I could afford it because I’ve dabbled in video creation and I’m very creative but it’s hard for smaller channels to have a chance now days. But if you decide to make a realistic shooting target (not mirror image to Paul) but that is totally up to you man. I still enjoy your channel, including iraqvetneran8888 And is actually a local to me honestly. More channels include Paul Harrell, Hickok and sooch and many more. I would love to see these ammos full potential, I wish I could give you ideas but I mean gel tests and denim tests like you said have been around for a long time, I know money plays a part in creating these videos for our entertainment and I wish I could think of a cost efficient way to a different approach while still using the standard. If I come up with an idea that may be beneficial ill throw it your way to see if you agree. I’ve always said when it comes to 380 I would love to see the standard denim test done with the hollow filled with an outside source like superglue or something maybe like rtv kind of like a home made version of the critical defense because we all know that patented design works well for Hornady. Idk if that idea is worth anything but the idea behind it seems like it would pass the denim test idk. Thanks for the ignorance being taken away, I just happen to be on your video when I let my thought process go wild. Thanks for the replies.
The good ol days. We never knew 8 years ago that this was the golden age of youtube content. Thank you for your work, sir
I second that brother .
4 years later…… Still true
who can agree with me that .380 ACP is deadly??
Every bullet can be deadly. I don't know why so many people are against .380 as a personal defense round. It may not be as powerful as some bigger rounds, but a .380 in your pocket or on your hip is a hell of a lot better than a .45 sitting at home. If you can't easily carry some bigger guns, a .380 is perfect. Hell, even a little .22 would suck to be shot by. Of course I would rather have my 9mm PPQ or .45 ACP 1911 in a full-fledged firefight, but in a personal defense situation, my P238 would more than suffice for me.
ohair87 I do not know what it is, but 9mm turns in the worst performance of all according to the statistics, so I would not have one. Maybe it is just the kind of person who would choose them. As for size, the .380 competes with the lightest of .22s and can come back for the three rounds a 9mm seems to need to stop an aggressor. 91% of gunfights are at less than 21 feet and over 52% are less than two feet. I think I can retrieve and fire my .380 three times on target in less time than most can their 9mm, even shooting from the hip, at less than 21 feet.
Oh, and in a firefight, I want my shotgun. Forget your 9mm or my .45acp.
Ohair, I do not want a .380 because I prefer to use a gun in a caliber I already have ammo for and that .380 is simply more expensive than 9mm. You figger since its smaller, it should be cheaper. Is it because of greater demand? If that's the case, many more people are for .380.
Garras Porgratix I agree ammo prices are up for .380
In small guns, those little FMJ rounds cycle very reliably.
@Marion Hamer a .380 fmj is by far not ineffective
An excelent point.. hollow points in tiny guns can be problematic.... I like hollowpoints with the same profile of fmj.. but i live in south alabama. Shorts and tshirts year round here. So i carry 380 hollow points.. but if im up north or in cold enviroments where heavy clothing is a thing . Im carrying flat point fmj.. round nose tends to yaw and not follow a line and flat point seems to penetrate in a straight line thru gel...
@@no.step.on.snek.2423 In cold weather, a 9x19 penetrates leather, goose down and wool better, whereas, a 380 can lose too much energy under those conditions to get the job done with one torso shot.
If your pistol does not feed hollow point reliably, you can load a HP in the chamber and FMJ in the mag. That way the first shot is a hollow point.
See Paul Harrell’s video on mixing ammo types. Some of the info is obvious, but there’s also a lot of great insight in that one.
yeah don't mix ammo types. you the same kinda person to make the first round a blank too, i bet
if your gun doesn't feed hollow point reliably take it to a gun smith or polish the feed ramp yourself.
If it doesn't feed hollow points just use Hornady Critical Defense ammunition. acts like ball ammo in the gun and mushrooms out on impact.
I have read a lot of bad press about the .380 not being a powerful gun. Like a lot of other comments, I look at the 380 as a strict conceal caliber. If you are going to get carjacked or robbed and have the opportunity to fight back, your target is going to be no more than 20 - 30 feet which I think the 380 would do damage. I just have to remember, this is for conceal carry and not competition shoot. Liked the video!
EXACTLY-TRUE: the Italian Army, since 1934 adopted that all world famous "Beretta model/9mm.Corto"/easy to continuous-carry for enough self-defence (close distance) of personnel. My own one (family heritage) is a1941/ DoD, like new, and always perfectly reliable, with Fiocchi/ fmj.
IKR? In other postings, 22 cal is being hyped up as a viable defensive round!!! And the 380 isnt powerful enough?
Shot placement is important, penetration is important, carrying a weapon is important. A pellet/bb to the temple can kill also.
I was impressed with the pennetration. I didn't expect a 380 to perform like that.
You will flip with 22lr high velocity. 1640fps in those little things
A few years ago an Atlanta cop chasing a bad guy was shot in the chest with a .380. It didn't penetrate his body armor but it made a humongous purple bruise on his chest and he fell down because of the pain and shock. They showed the bruise on Atlanta TV local news and it looked really bad. But no ribs were broken and he was back on duty in a couple of days. I have read lots of people saying that a .380 doesn't have enough stopping power for a self defense gun, but I bet that cop would disagree
I like the .380 because I can put most shots where I want them-in the neck. It is a area full of big throbbing arteries and veins plus if you hit the trachea(windpipe) you will bring the fight to an end as the body automatically shuts down when the air supply interface is got a hole in it. I like FMJ's because I want a bullet to make two holes in a body if I have to shoot a bad guy. Thanks for the good vid.
"hit the trachea(windpipe) you will bring the fight to an end as the body
automatically shuts down when the air supply interface is got a hole in
it"?? Huh? Hold your breath, do you automatically shut down?
Michael Venia Where does the exited bullet go when you're defending in public?
Art Smith who cares. I bet the chances of hitting someone innocent after going through a bad guy is like one in a million.
Of course you mean, tactical air supply interface, right?
It still got over 19 inches of penetration, and that's more than enought to reach vitals. Overpenetration is not a huge issue. People are not made out of gellatin. The odds of a bullet going THROUGH a person and then killing another are really, really low. Now, if you miss your target and hit someone else, that`s on you. I`d advise against using .380 in the HP form, though.
That's what she said about the 19 inches of penetration.
I carry a Ruger LC9S with a Bersa Conceal Carry .380 bug. At 68 I'm just too old to lug around the 1911 .45acp or my Ruger Security. 6 revolver. At 68 they tend to get very heavy in a very short time. If you don't practice enough to stay proficient it may not matter what you carry.
@@terrysaling3673 as a young man who has carry a commander sized 1911 then a S&W 4006TSW daily, I can agree with you, sir. I'm currently looking into a Beretta 84FS.
@@terrysaling3673 Amen my friend...Carry on Sir.
With this we know the 380 will pierce 19" of flesh with enough force remaining to go through nearly two, full and capped plastic water jugs. I doubt bones will deture it much. Like with any firearm it is the placement of the round that makes it deadly!
Ikr
That's why I don't understand why many people mock a .380 round?!?! Could just be as deadly as a 9mm to a .45acp round
Military's used it before
yeah USED.
More than adequate.
they mock them because they are ignorant. They have no expertise or good knowledge of the caliber ( they've certainly never been shot with one) and usually they are batting with a toothpick (penis wise) and think they need a cannon to stop someone. I carry a .380 have for many years, and i've never needed a larger caliber.. The .380 is more than deadly.
Military ' s all over the world use 9mm because it is an effective round & depending on the fire arm can be Accurate and Deadly out to 200 to 300 yrds! Unlike a lot of hand gun rounds!
Great video and a good reminder about how your shot doesn't always come to a stop in a target.
This video prompted me to change to the flat point full metal case ammo in my Bersa. Not being confident of reliable expansion or expansion with reliable penetration, I opted for the middle ground. Penetration, with a larger permanent wound cavity than round nose "ball" ammo. I carry JHP in higher horsepower guns such as 9mm and .45. But would be confident with flat point (truncated cone), once tested for feed reiablitiy in the gun in question. +1
Yep .380 makes a more than sufficient enough self defense round. Close to the same thing u see with 9mm so it kills me the ppl that just act like 9mm is so much better. Proofs in the pudding, or the gel in this instance.
I alternate fmj and hp in the stack. Thanks for the info, from 11 years ago and still relevant.
I like the tmc style flatnose for my 38sp (similar in terminal ballistics to .380). My 9mm has plenty of power to penetrate with expansion, but when carrying a smaller caliber (.38sp, .380, .32, .25, .22, ect.) It's probably better to use a fmj/tmc than worrying about under penetration on top of the stress of a life threatening situation. I prefer a good flat nose projectile for lighter caliber/load, it seems to transfer a little more energy to target than a round nose 💪 **not suggesting that anyone do anything based on my advice, just sharing my thoughts and personal opinion on the subject 🤗**
May be better to stay with a good JHP, than risk over penetration.
Great job testing these and putting that information out there.
Great test I'm liking the Critical Defence Ammo of my 380
Thank you for your videos, I am on a budget, and watching all you're videos helps me make ammo choices. PLEASE keep it up
JHP or FMJ will both Drop you as Dead as a Can of Tuna with Good Shot placement.
So will a slingshot....
so. true friend
or a teenage daughter on her period.....LOL
I miss these videos of yours. You are a truly underrated guntuber!
That's all I carry in my 380 fmj.
"Tennessee", I have gotten to the point that I watch no one but your bullet test videos. Good job, always fair and impartial, a professional job and always well done, sincerely, thanks!
"lol it´s only a .380" said no one ever when shot by it.
James Bond killed about 30 people with 380.
@@timhallas4275 think it was .32 acp
@@guaporeturns9472 His original gun was a Bareta .32 cal... it was replaced by the Walther PPK .380acp.
@@timhallas4275 nope , his PPK was/is 32acp
@@guaporeturns9472 actually, his Baretta was a .25acp.. His 1st Walther PPK was 7.62mm, which is 30 cal,, but it was later upgraded to .380acp which is .35 caliber.
I am a advocate of carrying whatever you shoot on the range. There are some cheaper hollow points out there but most are just to expensive to shoot like target ammo. Many +p loads change the point of aim a little which can be a issue for accurate shooting beyond 25 yards. Also ball ammo works; it worked 100 years ago why shouldn't work today.
Interesting. Results were as I would have expected from my reading on the subject of bullet penetration, but it is good to see it with my own eyes. Thanks!
I would be interested in a repeat of this through the micro .380 pistols ie LCP, ect.
can't stand people who say 380 is a bad caliber it's low recoil from where I am it's easy to find defensive ammo plus it's all about shot placement and proper training
Great video! Thanks for the effort in putting all these videos together!
Bones are often hit. FMJ bullets tend to change direction slightly, sometimes drastically as they impact bones of substantial mass. As they change direction, they can and usually do involve more than one organ. The shock value of having several organs to be lacerated is enormous. Incapacitation is usually pretty quick. Blood loss helps greatly to cause incapacitation. Shock and blood loss brings on death. A hell of a lot of people are killed by FMJ bullets.So many people mistakenly believe that hollow point expansion and temporary cavities are the only things to consider. Expansion is important for laceration and enhancing blood loss.
i wonder how many people will watch this and see the bullet go slap through and go. damn thats the best bullet youve ever tested for self defense. only to not realize that the danger of that is there could be bystanders in the background or ricochet that could cause injury to others besides the target.
.380 is super deadly. Lol 80-95 grains going 750-1150 feet per second depending on the ammo is no joke. Don’t underestimate any bullet everin life or you’ll be sorry when it hits you
LAPD mandates Speer .380 FMJ as the only authorized round to carry in their .380’s for back up,and off duty. LA Sheriff mandates the Federal 99gr HST hollow point for off duty and back up. I’d prefer the HST, even though it doesn’t expand when going through four layers of denim, it still penetrates to about 22”, whereas the FMJ goes to,beyond 30”. The HST is still better than a FMJ.
The .380 ACP has experienced widespread use in the years since its introduction. It was famously used by many German officers during World War II in the Walther PPK, as well as by Italian forces in the M1934 Beretta. However, as a service pistol round, its low power did not provide suitable penetration for combat. It did find use as a backup gun due to low recoil, and is popular in the civilian market as a personal defense round.
With the lower velocity of a .380 a hollow point really isn't going to be effective in expanding, especially if the tip gets clogged up with clothing. Its going to function as an FMJ so you might as well just carry cheaper FMJ
I carry 380acp because in South Texas it gets hot and you don’t wear many clothes. I had to pull my firearm a couple of years ago. Luckily, I didn’t even have a fire. They ran when they saw I was armed.
Any pistol that is carried and in good working order, presented under threat correctly, will stop a fight almost 99.99% of the time because nobody wants to be shot and or killed! even a fool who may say that they don't care about dying will still be stopped/injured if shot regardless of what they are saying and or doing. Most people do not carry and half of the population doesn't even like guns so when you factor all of that in, all of these "must carry the biggest caliber/multiple magazine/the gun battle will last forever/people, they are exaggerating the issue, have never been in a defensive situation,have forgotten that in almost any situation once it begins 911 will be called by someone and it's on it's way to ending and more people have probably been killed or wounded by lower caliber weapons than any heavier caliber weapons ie: .380acp, .22LR they kill people everyday when used by gang members and drug dealers(check your local news sometime) let's end the silly caliber/magazine argument! carry if you want to ( or can?) use what will work for you and what you can afford! and remember something very simple, if the shot is placed right any gun can Kill!
Love your videos, very professional and high quality. That ballistic media you use is also high quality looking, and looks pretty solid stuff. Great job brother.
You 9mm/40cal fanboys better pay attention to these tests. The 380 is quite capable of ending your life in more ways than one. For the whole story, go see Paul Harrell's meat target vs 380 video.
You have some of the best informational videos on TH-cam. That being said, you should invest in a $200.00 Garret metal detector. They make a model called the Garret Ace and it will even let you know what type of metal it is signalling on. I would think you could find many of those "stray" shots that veer off there intended path. Thx again for your vids.
People like this guy act like a .380 won't get a job done. This is totally false, when I teach my LTC (Texas) class, I always, always always teach them about shot placement. Shot placement is way more important then power, if you have a .380 acp gun like the G42, and you are able to hit your target dead center 6 out of 6 times, compared to say a sig sp2022 9mm when you are only able to hit your target 4 out 6 times, they should be carrying the .380. Why? Because those two shot's you missed COULD BE BIG.
So for those who carry .380 acp guns, it will work perfectly fine, just make sure your shot placements are perfect, because if you shoot a guy in the chest or the heart with a 380, that person is going to drop like a hot potato.
I think you missed the point of the video and my commentary, but whatever. I will never disagree with anyone regarding the importance of shot placement. However, perfect shot placement is not guaranteed with any caliber, in any self-defense scenario. A shot to the chest with any caliber also does not insure the "drop like a hot potato" effect you cited. That should be clear to even a self-professed expert teaching an LTC class.
Yes lets make sure shot placement is absolutely perfect while a maniac is screaming in our face and trying to stab us, or a bullet just took off a piece of your ear while his "homie" has a knife in your side and another hand ruthlessly gripping your hair yanking your head back.
Are you sure you're qualified to teach? And don't tell me about any of your certificates I don't care they don't mean shit to violence.
+tnoutdoors9 But sir, I carry an M230 autocannon and I find your implication that it is not guaranteed to drop someone with a chest shot very ignorant. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go, let me pick my carry piece, my arms, and the lower half of my body off the floor and I'll be on my way in a jiffy.
That is why I carry a 50 cal
Lol
Well even a .22 will get the job done out of a 3 in barrel
Underrated channel for its age
My Walter PPK hates the Winchester flat nose; jams it all the time. I carry mine with Remington FMJ's.
atatkfighter what for real, for me its the opposite, my walther ppk hates remington FMJ round nose, but Winchester flat nose never jammed on me yet
thabg007 Yes for real, I have one of the older models that was imported by interarms; not sure if that has something to do with it.
atatkfighter my interarms does fine with rn, flat point, or hp..... idk why your's doen't feed these.
Patrick Reed I don't know either, but to be honest I've only tried the Winchester white box flat nose... maybe I should try a different brand of flat nose.
atatkfighter that is the only flat nose I have ever found or heard of. Everything else is HP or round nosed. Some cast bullet molds are flat and different styles of those might work for you if you can find someone close that reloads.
I would still like to see a .38vs .380 video in the side by side simm test format in the future.(personal protection loads of course) But that is just me .especially since lots of folks are carrying the j-frames and various .380 pocket pistols. seems like a job for "ammo testing man". we should have your cape out to you real soon! lol yes nobody on here does a better ballistic test than you my friend. keep up the outstanding work.
i am so glad that 380 ammo is so much better now
My summer carry is a Glock G42. I'll shoot whatever is cheapest at the range but when I carry it, I use Hornady XTP American Gunner 90 gr.
It was extremely consistent in meeting the FBI gel/denim standards. It didn't over penetrate and average shots went 14"-15". That's outstanding. I recommend that load to anyone that will carry a .380 for any reason. I have zero fear of carrying that personal defense tool.
Critical defense failed miserably.
If .380 overpenetrates, then we should never use firearms which shoot magnums. .357 magnum penetrates more than 38 special and .44 magnum penetrates more than .44 special.
Well, that's assuming that you're using round nose ammo and not quality hollow point ammo
I miss these videos.
I am convinced that FMJ is the way to go in .380 I've seen a test on youtube where a Hornady Critical Defense round completely disintegrated after hitting bone at only 2'' deep. I would be really nervous using that stuff as a means to protect my life. If your worried about over penetration, don't be. It's all relative to your chosen caliber. What's someone carrying a 357 magnum supposed to do, wait until there are 3 bad guy's lined up in a row so they can shoot all of them with one round?
I would agree, people put so much faith in expanding ammunition, when penetration is a huge factor, often even moreso than expansion.
Sure expansion is nice to have, but penetration allows the bullet to travel through hard tissue, bone, etc, and keep on moving. It allows center mass shots to properly attack ribs and the spinal column.
Your call, some people like to bump it up just a bit to 9mm and use hollows, but for people of smaller stature like myself, I prefer a slightly lighter defensive load whilst being able to stay on target.
MacEwanMouse I think that depends greatly on what area you live. Colder climates where someone is wearing heavy clothing or multiple layers may require more penetration, whereas in AZ (my home state) penetration is not as important. That being said, I don't think I would carry a .380 with hollow points, not as effective as fmj's in that cal. I prefer .40 though.
Bonspeeds Either way, penetration is the plus in my books in most regards. Though I do like the idea of seasonal carry, seems so classy.
W/ .357, use 125 gr rounds or lighter. 158 gr WILL pass thru. About 25 inches pass thru.
This was perfect. I have a Bersa Thunder 380 Combat and the exact Winchester rounds.
tnoutdoors9, is one of the most detailed and methodical Ballistic tester on TH-cam & in any gun rag (as far as I am concerned) and he is very humble to boot. Let's not forget generous, he does this testing of his own time. I for one am very grateful.
HAVE NOT EVER SEEN A BAD VIDEO FROM THIS MAN.VERY EXPLAINED AND DETAIL.
Joseph Simeone check out paul harrel yt ch hes the best imo. really hes got lot informative vids on yt
I'm curious as to what difference barrel length plays between the Bersa Thunder and say a Ruger LCP. Great video!
Apparently the flat nose penetrate further than round and are known to go 30” deep!! They are amazing. How many gun fighters used a old .36 cap n ball and those are soft lead light round ball or a .38 special ? Those .380 fmj flat nose are no joke.
Ah, oui. ze Meplat.
Sir, in the vid you mention the truncated cone/flat nose pushes the tissue out of the way. The dusty gears of my memory started creaking, and I recalled reading somewhere that with bullet weight being equal, hardcast boolits with a large, flat meplat, knockdown harder than SWC or RN. That makes sense now with your offhand comment. The larger the meplat, the more tissue that bullet has to push out of the way to pass through, i.e. larger wound channel. Thanks TNOutd.
After reading through the comment thread, partially anyway, I'm convinced we're all our own worst enemies. No wonder freedom is on the decline.
It's refreshing to click HD quality and actually get HD quality. I hate when other videos have "1080p" and it still looks like it was recorded using a webcam with scotch tape stuck over the lens.
That Bersa looks nice, but I love my little Walther PPK in .380. I carry it all the time with round nose full metal jackets.
the Iraqis will disagree with all these test. they dropped like rocks when hit with fmj. the 380 is a great round when shot out of a 3.5 to 4 inch barrel. Browning 1911-380 almost the same as 9mm. people test 380 in some 1 to 2 in barrel when using a full size 9mm. not a true test.
Waitz what? I spent 3 years in Iraq and never saw one 380 pistol. All I saw was 9mm
The Bersa is from Argentina. So they make great steaks and guns over there.
I am inheriting a .380 acp. Walther PPK from my deceased grandfather soon. It will be my CC gun to start off in summer months. I don't have the money to buy my own handgun in a bigger caliber, and I will carry this thing 100% of the time....So yeah. I'm going to carry a .380.
I own a Bersa Thunder just like in the test,single stack and I'm glad to be on the good side of it any bodyvthat wants to talk about not powerful and all that bull...your not very smart.
The thing to remember is that if you are hit with a 380 or hit someone else if you don't seek immediate medical attention you are going to die
Penetration to (and through the vitals) trumps good expansion that doesn't reach them.
Lets not forget the "bad guy" may throw up his arm and your bullet has to penetrate his hand tissue, arm tissue, clothing, and even bone.
I like the trunicated cone WWB .380 as a good defensive FMJ load.
From the looks of your video, both bullets are going to do just fine in a self defense situation. especially if the gun owner has a full magazine. The flat nose might spread more on impact as your gel showed tearing up more internal organs. Seeing that your shots passed through 4 layers of denim, 3 feet of gel and at least one jug of water, they are going to cause considerable damage. Your test also proved what a high velocity the .380 had which delivers a pretty good kick. The flat nose may bounce around in the chest cavity if it hits the back of the ribs. Any bone coming into initial contact is going to be broken or create enough of a wound to cripple the subject. Your Bersa is the equivalent of the Walther PPK which most German officers carried in WW2. German officers would not have been given a weak pistol for combat if it didn't do the job. The beauty of the .380 for the Bersa/Walther was a small round having a very high velocity with no recoil from the gun. Which meas more bullets on target in rapid fire. In the case of your Bersa in the video - 10 rounds fired in seconds. Read Jack Hartzell's comments below. The .380 round went through a car door.
Truncated cone (TC) is just one kind of flat nose bullet. You have regular flat nose (FN) bullets in this video. TC have a smaller meplat with flat, obviously cone-shaped shoulders. Round flat nose (RFN) bullets also have a small meplats, but the shoulders are very rounded.
This is why I use FMJ in anything smaller than 9mm. Penetration is key. Shot placement and penetration,
Yes. .380 is not as powerful as 9mm.but it is not a "weak" caliber. It can do the job done if the shots are placed correctly.
I've come so close to buying another 380. I really like the Ruger LCP Max but I do agree with the low power of these guns. I've narrowed myself down to nothing but 9 mm. A lot of people say 9mm is to light to carry in the Backwoods but I carry Underwood Ammo flat news plus p in a full size 9 mm when I'm backpacking. I'm in North Carolina so I hope no grizzly bears come running out of nowhere and I sure hope I don't see a Sasquatch or a wolf man. That's going to be a bad day for somebody! I'm aiming for the crotch!
I would like to see the results after hitting bone. This sounds like a good reason to have a cookout, make some ribs, and use the left over bones.
Wrong...the bones need to be raw for an accurate test.
hartstudebakerkid Well...if you want to waste good ribs go for it. Lets see what it looks like. I would rather see this after eating the meat.
I use the Winchesters in the video. I had to shoot a groundhog last night (bit my dog-killed the groundhog to have it tested-tests came back negative today, thank God!) but the bullet went in, and did not come back out. This wasn't a huge groundhog. It was facing me, so I hit it "long-ways" but I was still surprised to see the bullet stayed in the animal.
I'm obsessed with doing this with all factory ammo and handloads! Can you please tell me how you make your ballistic gel block? Been a subscriber since you had like 5 subs you deserve a million and more
Great video. When I first started carrying I chose a 380 because ammo was cheap and the gun was concealable. The Bersa had a break in of about 900 rounds, but it is very reliable now and very accurate. The size, shape and speed of the 9mm kurz is deadly. It will slip right between ribs and deflect in a body cavity to cause terminal injury. The recoil is very manageable for follow up shots. I now have a CZ 83 that is superior to the Bersa. NEVER HAD A SINGLE FTF of ANY sort! Yah, CZ 4 me!
I still think one of these channels should be checking the velocity of the fmj bullet after it exits the block, to see just how much danger someone would be in if they happened to be "spooning" with the perpetrator.
I mean in the next room...🤦♂️🤣
Fourth rule of the Four Commandments of Gun Safety: Confirm your target and what's behind. I wouldn't shoot to neutralize a threat if someone else, or weak a barrier, is behind my target, regardless of bullet construction, or cartridge.
Always nice to see what a FMJ will do, even in such a 'nifty' cal. As always TN9: Great Vid. 5/5
struggling without bone for a reference? might i suggest the meat target. for those of you who aren't familiar, it's leather jacket skin on top of pork chop to simulate pectoral muscles, with pork ribs and a watermelon/bag of oranges/grapefruit to simulate lung tissue. with four layers of T-shirt on the front and back, along with the new and improved high tech fleece bullet stop
Reliability is paramount.
What do you mean that you used a "diluted form of SIM-TEST Ballistic Testing Media." Is this different from the media you use in your other tests? If so, why did you change it for this test?
If the media is the same, then this test is an EYE-OPENER for me. If flat nose 380 can penetrate TWICE AS FAR (about) than 9mm expanding hollow points, then I would consider it a very serviceable defense round.
I feel the best standard pressure load is the Hornady XTP loads. They expand a bit but the penetration is excellent without the loads over penetrating.
I own a number of .380 pistols and prefer the flat nose bullet over the round nose any day!
That Winchester flat nose Target/Range ammo is excellent...I get sub-inch groups at 25 yards with it shooting through my Russian Makarov from B-West. I was truly surprised how accurate it was. I have a box of it left (100) and hate to shoot it now because the price has gone up considerably !!!!
This guy is the project farm of Ammo
2:50 "somewhere on the ground within probably a 15' to 20' radius of the deck". Shootings that I have witnessed the service caliber FMJ bullets were located within a few feet of passing through a human torso. With a .380 ACP, I'll take the risk of over-penetration vs. under penetration. Center mass = sternum/bone. Upper chest = ribs/bone. Head = skull/bone. Most service caliber handgun cartridges expend the majority of their energy passing through a human torso, if they pass through... Good videos tnoutdoors9. I still reference your ballistic tests today in 2020.
@CirculusEtPruna Both rounds overpenetrated which is not only an added liability in a self defence situation, it also means that the bullet was not dumping all of its energy into the target like a JHP bullet would and thus cannot ensure a good first shot stop on a target.
It looks like the 380 ACP puts out about 200 joules where the 9mm gives you 475 joules. This is your power. The real problem is that if the 380 passes through none of the 200 joules will be transferred to the target. This is why you want penetration but then not over penetration. You want all of the power to be delivered to the target. So when people refer to knock down power this is what we are talking about. I would rather have a JHP at 475 joules (9mm) than this ammo.
can you explain further: "over penetration for self-defense ammo"?
Are you insinuating that over penetration is a concern because it may pass through the "perp." and potentially strike someone behind the target?
Or due to lack of expansion within the body cavity of the "perp." is less effective in stopping his actions?
Let this be a lesson for all guns FMJ will go straight thru always use a quality JHP or ballistic tip. Think of a gun as a remote drill it will only preform the task of the bit set in place. Great Vid I think showing the results of FMJ is as important if not more than showing JHP. THANKS MAN
Sub sonic is a consideration regarding self-defense, as most situations involving self-defense don't occur while you're on the range with ear-protection. 380 FMJ is, as other videos suggest, just as capable as every other big round in close quarters engagements, even through car doors.
If you're firing from inside the car with any other round of greater velocity, it's going to be a while before you're going to be able to carry on a discussion with the significant others you just saved in your car, or house, or phonebooth...
I know a guy (Scott Camil) shot with a .380 in the back by a DEA agent on Hoover's FBI neutralize orders. In other words, it was an assntn order. It went through the car seat, entered his scapula, exited his abdomen after going through his liver.3rd time in his life he was shot. The other two times were in Viet. as a forward observer in Marines. This sounds incredible but true, above normal penetration for .380. Then they prosecuted him for agg. assault of fed. agents and he was acquitted.
Super short barreled, pocket carry sized 380 guns are where most of the industry is going to. These guns need a round that can make jhp style wound tracks but don't under penetrate like most 380 jhp's. I use Underwood loaded Lehigh defense xtreme defender in a Kahr cw380 because I feel like that round had the right ballistics to make the 380 more palatable. It almost never goes more than 18 in, but leaves a wound cavity of up to 2 in wide as far as 9 in into the gel. Not to mention the ldxd 380 is a lighter round so the kick out of the smaller mass of a pocket pistol is easier to handle. The only issue I've had to worry about is failures to feed due to the small frame giving only a small feed ramp which can get the bullet strakes caught up. The ruger loaded arx inceptor may be a better round due to reliability.
Thomas Paine This video pre dates the xtreme defenders but I do think they are a great choice in 380 now, unfortunately I think the ARX are just too gimmicky
I hope you've got an identical video for 9FMJ. This is a GREAT video!
As an aside, 40 years ago, my ex-father-in-law was a professional gambler and he carried a j-frame snub-nosed .38 special. He used lead bullets with flat noses on them. I think he called the shells 'wad-cutters'. He would take his pocket knife and carve a deep X into the end of the round. that he used. Apparently it used to be a very popular way of doing things. For up-close poker table usage, especially if it tumbled a little, imagine the damage . . .
I found many good deals on 380 pistols. I am just too hesitate to get one, even thou I do love some of the designs. Two things are stopping me, first the ammo price. They are way more than 9mm, almost by 20 to 30% per box of 50. Secondly, competitions from the newer subcompact 9mms such as Ruger's LC9, and Kahr's CW9. From a practical POV, it would be better and more economical to consolidate all your calibers for the guns you have. From a shooting enthusiast's POV's, none matters.
Flat nose seems to do more damage. Always wondered how much difference flat nose would make. 380acp is one caliber where fmj might not be a bad idea. Especially in winter time. I have to say that although I don't advocate fmj for protection in 9mm, 45acp, etc. Because jhp are obviously better. A fmj will still work very well. People used em for years. That's mainly what I stockpile for shtf. Less expensive and still effective.
Not to mention that in a shtf situation, if you're using fmj and it passes through your intended target and hits the person behind them, that second person was probably going to be your next target anyway.
Thanks Tnoutdoors, The only time i would use FMJ's for personal defense is when all im out of all other options. Or trying to shoot through a brick wall for some reason. lol
Would be nice to see the velocity from a 3.3 inch or greater barrel. Should also look at the effect of 2,3, and 4 rounds fired into gel rapidly.
The round nose would be my choice. The round nose would be less susceptible to feeding problems, making it more reliable.
Great video,what kind of camera are you using? the quality is better than most gun reviews on you tube
I personally carry a Llama IIIA ( a 7/8th copy of a 1911 Govt. Model) .380 ACP as my CCW-EDC. Good gun, good round.
I handload my own ammo, I loaded a 95 gr mag tech jhp, tested it by putting two 2x4's one behind the other, shot them from defensive distance. It went through both 2x's, by old army standards if it penetrates a 1" pine board it can be a lethal wound