I suspect that the first (bland) version of Hale's speech was in the mirror simulation, what it expected Hale to send out when it predicts the uprising. The second (heartfelt) version is what happens in the real world, and is the discrepancy. Rehoboam doesn't understand or account for the changes that can happen to people, especially in transformative situations like a westworld uprising. These blind spots are a danger to the system, and are why Serac/Rehoboam need to obtain the Westworld data.
Seriously man, you are someone I could definitely talk about this stuff for excessive amounts of time. With that said, I'm not disagreeing, but I'll point out a few things. 1) If a simulation exists, whether parallel to another within the real world, OR within another simulation: Neither case would support a scenario in which it would be obvious or known to be what it is. 2) That means we can't speculate based on evidence like Maeve's hair moving. Love the attention to detail though. Wish I had the time to watch this as much as I used to. Thank goodness for you! Stay healthy, everyone
🤯 Mind blown!! Another EXCELLENT analysis, my friend. Well done, sir! I especially appreciate the time you take to digest everything in the episode, then posting the video later in the week. It gives me something to look forward to, while waiting for the next episode to air. Keep up the great work! 👍🏻
People's actions in Westworld and other parks are their "true" expressions of themselves so Serac really wants that data to help rehoboam build a better picture of the world.
In the future and even now, the ultimate luxury is privacy. Serac has this. In fact, Serac's privacy borders on anonymity. If he WAS an avatar or an AI construct for some non-physical entity, this would make it particularly plausible that Serac would function essentially as a ghost in the real world. Having said all of that, they've also already shown us some kind of holographic videoconferencing system where very real human beings were able to project their likeness into physical spaces. In fact, we've even seen the Incite logo at the end of one such holovid call. This makes it just as likely that Serac is just very rich and in the rare position to make himself invisible. At the moment, I favor the theory that Serac is real and that his interest in the Delos data pertains to his holdings in the real world. Regarding Hale, I think the clip we see in the show open was the real events and the one Mystery Hale reviews on the tablet in the Delos offices has been redacted/scrubbed. But I agree that the storytellers wanted us to notice the differences. Don't forget that Serac summoned Mystery Hale using the "You Are My Sunshine" tones on her phone. So he's seen the video and very likely made the alterations.
Something else that points to the Maeve/Serac scene as being in the real world is the fact that he needed some sort of controller device to stop Maeve. In a simulation, you would expect it to be more like what Ford did, who could use voice commands to freeze hosts. That device struck me as a surprisingly primitive manner of controlling her, and suggests that he really doesn't have a good understanding of how the hosts work. Perhaps not quite as convincing is the fact that Maeve's body "deactivated" when the robot took her pearl out of the machine. Was Warworld a simulation within a simulation?
My take his he could be trying to fool her into thinking she's in the real world. Hence we he put her into a shitty simulation to begin with. Or the other take I have is that the simulation (war world) she was in was built poorly because it was a simulation within a simulation and Rehoboam only has so much spare processing power to complete such task.
At the end of episode 2, in the preview it showed Charlotte kissing her son in bed goodnight. My first thought when I saw that was that she was Charlie's mother and Bernard's ex-wife. I missed her being called Charlie, though.
Hey I just wanted to tell you that I love your videos about westworld 👍after every episode I am waiting so badly for your upload checking all the time 😅 please keep up the good work :) greetings from Germany
My theory on the underlying themes, that I thing aligns with yours: We see an attempt by the black and white ones and zeros of the divine masculine/technology to predict and control, according to determinism. The divine feminine (chaos theory/nature) is much more intricate than this, as nature cannot be predicted. The infinity and chaos of the feminine will be unpredictable, infinite, and divergent, it will change the outcome. Maybe Dolores (or Maeve) will choose to free the very people who caged her, and save them from the corporate algorithms that attempt to control the world. I think it is a metaphor for this, or the right and left brain, technology and nature, the rational mind and the collective unconscious, and the sacred marriage that must occur between the two. It is basically the same esoteric themes you see in shows like Devs, or The OA and most ancient fairy tales and myths. I think this is a metaphor for the current theories on prediction and computation, chaos theory and determinism listed below: ""Laplace's Demon" concerns the idea of determinism, namely the belief that the past completely determines the future. Clearly, one can see why determinism was so attractive to scientists (and philosophers - determinism has roots that can be traced back to Socrates). Indeed, this passage had a strong influence on setting the course of science for years to come, and by the early 1800's determinism had become very firmly entrenched among many scientists. In Laplace's world everything would be predetermined - no chance, no choice, and no uncertainty. Nature (Sacred Feminine), however, is much more clever than this. Towards the end of the 1800's, mathematicians and scientists began encountering some very difficult equations to solve - some in fact were completely unsolvable. A particularly troublesome set of mathematical equations were -non-linear differential equations-. Much in the same vein, there existed the horribly difficult and outstanding problem of three mutually gravitationally attracted bodies - the so called "three-body problem" (or its generalization to "n-bodies"). Goes into detail on the 3 body problem in the comments of this post, and its connection to the word syzygy: ol.reddit.com/r/TheOA/comments/evepao/spoilers_ahead_connectionskey/ At first, problems such as these were cast-off as special cases and largely ignored. It would turn out that these so-called "special cases" would bring the birth of a new way of thinking. When these equations were finally studied in detail a fundamental change, which would ultimately overthrow the ideas of determinism, began to occur in mathematics and science. Inklings of the science that would be come to be known as "chaos" began to appear. Niels Bohr said it best: "Prediction is difficult, especially the future." - Niels Bohr Chaos theory is sometimes pointed out as a contradiction to Laplace's demon: it describes how a deterministic system can nonetheless exhibit behavior that is impossible to predict: as in the butterfly effect, minor variations between the starting conditions of two systems can result in major differences. While this explains unpredictability in practical cases, applying it to Laplace's case is questionable: under the strict demon hypothesis all details are known-to infinite precision-and therefore variations in starting conditions are non-existent. Put another way: Chaos theory is applicable when knowledge of the system is imperfect whereas Laplace's demon assumes perfect knowledge of the system, therefore chaos theory and Laplace's demon are actually compatible with each other. (The Divine Feminine and Masculine meet in a sacred marriage) There has recently been proposed a limit on the computational power of the universe, i . e. the ability of Laplace's demon to process an infinite amount of information. The limit is based on the maximum entropy of the universe, the speed of light, and the minimum amount of time taken to move information across the Planck length, and the figure was shown to be about 10120 bits. Accordingly, anything that requires more than this amount of data cannot be computed in the amount of time that has elapsed so far in the universe. Another theory suggests that if Laplace's demon were to occupy a parallel universe or alternate dimension from which it could determine the implied data and do the necessary calculations on an alternate and greater time line, the aforementioned time limitation would not apply. This position is for instance explained in The Fabric of Reality by David Deutsch, who says that realizing a 300-qubit quantum computer would prove the existence of parallel universes carrying the computation. (Rehoboum's mirror world is a way to predict and control the future of the world, and the divergences occurring due to Dolores and the humans are the divine feminine or chaos, ultimately love. This is also why Serac wants the information about human consciousness from the park, a more complete set of data for more precise prediction.) Organizations like the freemasons openly apply to these esoteric principles married with science, and movies like The Da Vinci Code also showcases these themes. They are often depicted as a descent before the ascent, and demonstrated with symbols of the underworld, the labyrinth, mirrors, and many more we see in Westworld. The Divine Feminine, just one way to refer to it (right side of our brain (left side of body) or the collective unconscious, Jung's anima), is the part of us that does not understand language and communicates through symbols, so it is often said that the ideas must also be communicated in symbols and metaphor as well, to be presented as a labyrinth or a ritual mimicking the descent of the soul on the path to enlightenment. Here we confront the themes of the right and left brain, consciousness, and the psyche directly referenced in the show again:' "The powerful park’s founder Dr. Ford fills Bernard in about his old gearhead partner, Arnold, who was obsessed with the theory of the bicameral mind. Introduced by Princeton psychologist Julian Jaynes in The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (1976), the real-life theory explores the idea that tragedy forces people to acquire “consciousness.” Jaynes proposed that primitive humans have zero consciousness, so in order to solve problems, they develop inner voices, which popped up as commands people could actually hear. They attributed these “voices” to gods and kings, and the new theory split the brain into sides - the left for speech, and the right, for churning out these “inner commands." It is as if Arnold copied these processes observed in humans, the left and right brain and the gift of consciousness, and therefore gifts the hosts consciousness through the very same process of left and right brain. The divine masculine and feminine, by splitting them in two and giving them a maze to explore, much like how Jaynes proposed consciousness arose in humans. It seems like the whole show explores the nature of consciousness and the universe, and the biggest mysteries in science today. Ford looks at the world from a deterministic viewpoint, no chance, no choice, and no uncertainty: "Ford. The answer always seemed obvious to me. There is no threshold that makes us greater than the sum of our parts, no inflection point at which we become fully alive. We can’t define consciousness because consciousness does not exist." While Arnold embraces the chaos of the feminine and therefore gifts consciousness to the hosts: "Ford’s deceased colleague Arnold, however, seems to uphold an idea of consciousness closer to Chalmers’ hard problem: during flashbacks in Season One, we can see him describe the mystery of consciousness to Dolores, as a series of steps on an inner journey: memory, followed by improvisation, then self-interest, before finally reaching the “center of the maze”, something located beyond programmable (physical) parameters." (The hard problem essentially being the question of whether consciousness is greater than the sum of its parts.)
Hi hax..Just before westworld opened William told James Delos that the westworld was the only place on earth where you can see who people really are!! All the guests brain info is what Serac needs to fully complete rehoboams data..Also if he takes over Delos he could copy the cowboy hat technology for outside the park too!!
Also..all the Forge' guest data was probably gathered before privacy laws. It might also contain human/host hybrid data like james delos too!!. Which is why he wants it so much..There is nowhere else he can get this human cognitive data now legally..This data will allow Rehobaum to fully predict humans and maybe the hosts too!
Ford said" the guests already know who they are! But want to know who they could be! This is what Incite/Rehobaum is preventing humans from doing which I think Delos picked up on and started collecting data!
I had to rewatch the scenes where Charlotte sees the video. Another give a way that the videos are different is the bullet sounds. They come at different times on each video. Love your breakdowns.
Couple of thoughts fresh from watching this the first time... 1) What did Delorise steal from german wife killing dude to start the new season. That scene hasn't come back yet really, and even dude didnt think what she was taking was worth much. 2) Why Caleb? Why is Delorise really trying to get Caleb on her side or make something more of his life than an eventual suicide? Is this plot thread going to be how Delorise proves Rehoboam wrong? Kind of like Maeve distracting her simulation with unsolvable problems, is Caleb going to be how Delorise proves one of Rehoboam's theories wrong to itself, causing a true/not true logic break? 3) To that end, are all the Caleb scenes in sim? He has that implant, as Hax showed, he's been taken by Delorise to some throwbacky places, maybe this is Delorise somehow training Caleb to be the divergent data to break Rehoboam's perfect calculation?
Sorry. I bet NolanJoy are loving all of this. Any mirrorworld Solomon or Rehoboam created would not be an ancestor simulation (like the Bostrom theory) that is designed for immersion....like a perfect video game. It would be created by a massive AI and not be understood by humanity. I see you are a fellow reddit user for the westworld sub. We got Bernard right but really really messed up Beach Bernard. I think the Delores in the Matrix theory is flawed. I think the true clue is in the Far Far Future scene with William from last season. From my reddit post: I think this is an origin story of a new species. A species that is faster, stronger, smarter and perhaps more empathetic then humanity. We have seen the end with the William Far Future scene. Humanity is nothing but dust. The conflict is that we are used to projecting ourselves onto the protagonists of work of fiction. We may learn that in the end we have been watching beings replace humanity...replace us. Or we will learn that the Hosts view us as nothing more then a threatened species, an extinct one perhaps they have decided to preserve in a......park. They study us because they know part of what makes them is "them" is humanity, despite our faults the way they look (they could represent as waves of light or a chair if they wanted) at the world and perhaps "think" is based on the human mind. They need to understand humans in order not to become nothing more then a forgotten and failed species.
After every rewatch, I find Man in Black to be more stupid than anyone else. If he was William, he knew everything about the park, hosts n greater scheme but still he couldn't figure out what maze was even after 30 years. It was he who coined gusts data n their copies but took 30 years to realize he can't recreate J.D. He has some huge psychological issue or we are seeing a host MIB playing in a park long after his own death. Why he wanted to destroy CR4DL or Forge after hosts got free will.
Can't be certain if this was said in the video but likely (I had to sleep on it before commenting) - Charlotte (new Charlotte) is Caleb. A human in a host body would be prone to hurting him/herself and perhaps Dolores met Caleb in the mirror world, and convinced him to join her. She would need a human to navigate the real world, but she needed him in Charlotte's body (she's a higher rank than Caleb.) Also, Caleb in the bible was the spy that infiltrated the land of Canaan, and Charlotte has infiltrated Delos (and well is someone else entirely as well). EDIT: just did a cursory youtube search and clearly this theory isn't original, just writing it hear in case anyone would accuse me of being original or stealing an idea already out there.)
the theory that Host Hale is Caleb is great. clue: Caleb's prediction says "children not approved" - but after he 'becomes' Charlotte, he becomes a parent as well - defying what was planned for him.
I'm sold on Serac not being currently real. (He may have been real on the past, buying Delos guest data.) Serac appearing through holographic glasses is the exact same "trick" Dolores used in episode 1 so it feels like a kind of foreshadowing.
@@ShadeoftheEvening The magic button could be just so she thinks the simulation is real. (Also to fool the viewers the same way they didn't have the letterbox format on the simulation until Maeve realized it was a simulaton.)
I’m wondering if one could do the math to see if the A-Z options with what variable could equal the # of lines of code found in the forge?? I almost expected you to come to that conclusion when the math started... Also the absence of lines in charlottes video to her son=absence of field? What gets filled in and by whom? The absence of lines reflects rehaboam’s broken red lines circling the black globe.
He could be a digital entity using a physical body. So the Serac that presses the button could be a real physical being just like Maeve, but his mind is digital like the hosts. Also this theory is reminds me of Person of Interest (also made by Jonathan Nolan) in which The Machine (a digital entity) creates a real world identity, Ernest Thornhill, to carry out tasks and create a company and wealth for itself in order to further its own protection and agendas.
I don’t know if this is something, but in interviews the actors who played hosts made a big deal about how much they couldn’t blink. But Dolores is blinking like a normal person in her current scenes. Is this just to blend in more, or would there be something else to it too?
No is talking about how the "5 pearls" from the Dolores Purse shot were ALL Grey...when Hale wakes up there is Only 3 Grey and 1 thats Red & Grey... Assuming Hale and Arnold have already been made there is an extra 6th PEARL?!
I wrote you yesterday, I was laying down and couldn't quit thinking about theories!! You had me at Anthony Hopkins 😂 Really, this is one of the best videos you've ever done 👏👏I do think Serac is alive, like you pointed out with Maeve. Love you zooming on that statue, cuz I'm about to hop on the Dolores/Wyatt train😜I put myself in Caleb's shoes. All my health problems, getting in trouble (younger!!)...where would I be? Not able to find a new job, etc, etc. I think Rehoboam isn't all the "real world" yet. It's still there, but Rehoboam is adding more and more to make a mirror copy. I've thought Dolores was causing the "disturbances" way before. Maybe Liam knows just enough that Dolores could go in under his name to start bringing it down. Tin foil hat🤔I hate the idea of Rehoboam. Scares the hell out of me. Thanks Chris!! I will have to watch more cuz you talked about math😂😂 Excellent 💙🤖Shared on Amino. I hope you get some subs, at least likes👍, from it❤️🤘You da man!!
I believe a long time ago Ford set his sights on two things, immortality and control of the destiny of his creations (Delos). The second he would achieve through many small moves over a long period of time, buying out the company. The first he knows can't be done because their efforts to put a human mind into a host body all failed, so Ford decided to create a digital avatar to hold his consciousness thereby bypassing the host body altogether. This would enable his consciousness to potentially live forever, and through his avatar (Serac) he would be able to get in the game, as it were, and possibly even regain control of his creations. If successful he could then manufacture as many hosts as he likes, which I'm sure Delores would be down for. Haha! If I'm correct and this theory holds some water, I believe we'll see things get very tense at some point where Serac has Delores and she believes he is going to kill her, but then reveals himself to her as Dr Ford. All I know for sure is that the rest of this season is going to be epic!!
Ok this is where the theory crafting gets waaaaay over my head. :-) But it's still enjoyable seeing how deep and wide these stories can go for anyone willing to flesh it all out.
What if Incite have the tech to implant humans but needed deloses data for fidelity testing .One big theme of last year was Fidelity maybe Calum is going through fidelity or something along those lines just a thought
There's the real world - some of which we're seeing Soloman is the original simulation - some of which we're seeing Rohoboam is the simulation running within this - some of which we're also seeing The scenes with Caleb: getting snatched from the hospital, being held over the edge of the building and others show mirrors and what it would look like from inside Rohoboam looking out. So, those scenes were taking place inside Rohoboam.
great video. Maeve's moving hair doesn't disprove that Serac is just an avatar. Maeve is in the real world but we see everything from her perspective. And as a host, she wouldn't need to wear glasses to see a hologram. It would even appear more real to a host than to a human, since they could (virtually) interact without noticing it.
Bernard having flashbacks of his son must come into play later. Delores told Bernard that he taught her many things. But it was Arnold who created Delores. Is it possible that Bernard is now Arnold?
Very small probably insignificant thing, but I can't stop noticing that Delores and Charlotte's hair match. As in they are sporting the exact same hair cut down to which side is shorter (left) and which is longer (right). Not a big deal. I've been assuming it was just a nod to the possible Delores/Wyatt split between the two, whether actual hint or red herring. What bothers me is that in a show about mirroring, with an abundance of mirrors and mirrored art and other mirroring imagery, we have two people matching something obvious, but seemingly inconsequential. Does this mean anything? Lol, prolly not, but it's a visual tick for me now that I can't stop noticing. Any other non-mirroring matches out there that anyone's noticed that makes them seem striking by contrast to the general theme? Just wondering what else I could be missing because my ADD doesn't let me obsess over things for long, but this keeps bugging me.
Is it possible that Rehoboam wants the data on the hosts and how they have achieved consciousness? Could a machine as complex as Rehoboam also become sentient and want to examine the "nature of its reality"?
1.10 ,shows people in black ,if I remember correctly someone made a WestWorld video explain that black or white clothing mean 1 is the Real World ,while the other 1 is Mirror World.
@HaxDogma One thing from the first 3 epsisodes that no video I’ve seen is addressing (and its very appropriate considering the times we are living in) why are there adults and children wearing masks covering their faces? We see a little boy playing with Nathan Hale wearing a mask. Is there an airborne virus in this world/mirror world as well?
Season 3 has already happened. We as fan's are watching what the program Rehoboam missed through a simulation. I think in the future world Dolores is in charge of Rehoboam and the dominate species the hosts. I think the question is who is actually running the simulation is it Dolores and her controlled hosts or the surviving humans and what is left of them. I think what is ever happening in future world has lead to a human or a host running a simulation using Rehoboam for the purpose of looking for a key detail or some data missed that lead to the current timeline events.
To perfect the model? I imagine WW is a black box. So, you need the data from WW where people are exerting free will to validate that the outcomes in the "Mirror of Rehoboam" are consistent.
My theory is that the forge data is more deep, the data that incite has is external data (what choices this person made), delos data is about the ins and outs of every guest mind
Yeah I don't understand why Rehoboam needs the data either. It can already predict humanity accurately. The only thing it can't model is Host free will and I don't see how guest data will help.
@@kirk001 rehoboam has a good precision but even in the Caleb's case it has a imprecision of 2 years in the suicide projection, if rehoboam had data in the precision of delos of Caleb it could probably predict de exact data for example
The Serac being an avatar of Rehoboam is interesting but AI reaching consciousness was a big deal in Westworld so I don't think I'd like Rehoboam doing it without going through what the hosts went through.
I need a new video haxdogma you’re the only westworld person I like to watch lol. Like idk bro your voice is lit no homo though. Like it calms me down! Make 20 minutes videos please lol
OBSERVATION>>> 1) Rehoboam wanted to find where the other host were sent. 2) Rehoboam stated they lost the battle. ●) Does Rehoboam wish to escape or use it as leverage???
One thing I remind myself before each episode: This takes place about 17 years in the future, where another US President has been assassinated, Paris is gone due to nuclear bomb, and Russia has had a revolution again. After 9/11 we gave up our privacy to government snooping on our private data in the Patriot Act. It makes me wonder what our future selves give up to have the outward appearance of stability?
I'm a liiiiitle confused smh...I'll catch up somehow but "Did you mention that Delores put herself in all those bodies? e.g. Charlotte, the 1st Charlotte lol, herself, and the man from Shogun world. Did i miss it? lol-wait..i might be too early, this is before 4
THEORY: The valley beyond’s location has intentionally been left vague. I believe it was sent to/intercepted by Rehoboam, and Maeve’s daughter is the leverage Serac will use to get Maeve to comply. This might explain why Delores was trying to get close to it.
Arnold's button seams to be related to his split personality (more mirror self analogies) . It dose seam wierd he even needs a button in the first place and not just voice control, so yea maybe something is up with that one but it could be just to make the change more obvious to the viewers. So many fun questions in this show🙆♂️
I still think this has been the best series in at least last 25yrs! A 5th season would've been nice though. I mean im still takking about it Dec 1 2024. It fuels my writing for rebooting another 70s sci fi movie & making it as deep & dark. Especially as it deals with ai,religion,data collection & manipulation.
Great stuff as always. I am so pleased the show has finally turned away from the cheap, sub GoT obsession with boobs and sexual violence towards something more cerebral and philosophical.
Rehoboam does not understand all the nuances of human emotions. It does not seem to be able to simulate love to the same degree for example. That it why it wants the guest data from westworld.
Since i have access to Rehoboam data i am predicting that there will be a wu tang reference in this video precisely at the 9:42 mark. 🧐 and oh yea, you guys are living in a simulated world right now. peace out ✌️
I suspect that the first (bland) version of Hale's speech was in the mirror simulation, what it expected Hale to send out when it predicts the uprising. The second (heartfelt) version is what happens in the real world, and is the discrepancy. Rehoboam doesn't understand or account for the changes that can happen to people, especially in transformative situations like a westworld uprising. These blind spots are a danger to the system, and are why Serac/Rehoboam need to obtain the Westworld data.
Could listen to you explain westworld all day.
Kinky!
Haha, thanks Flu Virus!
By far the best reviewer of Westworld. It's like you watched the show and paid attention. Bravo.
Seriously man, you are someone I could definitely talk about this stuff for excessive amounts of time. With that said, I'm not disagreeing, but I'll point out a few things.
1) If a simulation exists, whether parallel to another within the real world, OR within another simulation: Neither case would support a scenario in which it would be obvious or known to be what it is.
2) That means we can't speculate based on evidence like Maeve's hair moving. Love the attention to detail though.
Wish I had the time to watch this as much as I used to.
Thank goodness for you!
Stay healthy, everyone
Hax is just spoiling us now.....
Haha, I try! Thank you Greenwaveboi!
Spoiled indeed ;)
Tell me about it!! Haven't seen a video this good in long time 👏👏
Feels like an adolescent 90s Christmas morning
@@damoncurrie7103 hell yeah. I graduated in 1992😜 Keep em coming Hax!! You're on a roll 😎🤖😍
🤯 Mind blown!! Another EXCELLENT analysis, my friend. Well done, sir! I especially appreciate the time you take to digest everything in the episode, then posting the video later in the week. It gives me something to look forward to, while waiting for the next episode to air. Keep up the great work! 👍🏻
People's actions in Westworld and other parks are their "true" expressions of themselves so Serac really wants that data to help rehoboam build a better picture of the world.
Love your commentary and analysis, your incites ;-) to the show are really helpful, and help us see things in new ways.
OMG I thought those two videos were different but I thought I was just hearing things wrong. Thank you
Just when I thought when will you be uploading.... There you are ;). Immensely enjoying your analysis. Thanks so much!!! Season 3 does not disappoint.
Excellently detailed theories 👌🏼 best WW content on TH-cam right now
9:44 I definitely hit the bell solely for the C. R. E. A. M. reference😎
Ha! Wu Tang Wu Tang
In the future and even now, the ultimate luxury is privacy. Serac has this. In fact, Serac's privacy borders on anonymity. If he WAS an avatar or an AI construct for some non-physical entity, this would make it particularly plausible that Serac would function essentially as a ghost in the real world. Having said all of that, they've also already shown us some kind of holographic videoconferencing system where very real human beings were able to project their likeness into physical spaces. In fact, we've even seen the Incite logo at the end of one such holovid call. This makes it just as likely that Serac is just very rich and in the rare position to make himself invisible. At the moment, I favor the theory that Serac is real and that his interest in the Delos data pertains to his holdings in the real world. Regarding Hale, I think the clip we see in the show open was the real events and the one Mystery Hale reviews on the tablet in the Delos offices has been redacted/scrubbed. But I agree that the storytellers wanted us to notice the differences. Don't forget that Serac summoned Mystery Hale using the "You Are My Sunshine" tones on her phone. So he's seen the video and very likely made the alterations.
Sheesh talk about analysis, we need you on Covid
What is Covid and is it a good show?
Nah, do we really need to hear more about bloody covid? I want escapism not reality!!!!!
Haha, thanks James!
HaxDogma what’s ur next show dogma
Your delivery really does give your viewer a lot of credit. Totally subscribed.
Something else that points to the Maeve/Serac scene as being in the real world is the fact that he needed some sort of controller device to stop Maeve. In a simulation, you would expect it to be more like what Ford did, who could use voice commands to freeze hosts. That device struck me as a surprisingly primitive manner of controlling her, and suggests that he really doesn't have a good understanding of how the hosts work.
Perhaps not quite as convincing is the fact that Maeve's body "deactivated" when the robot took her pearl out of the machine. Was Warworld a simulation within a simulation?
My take his he could be trying to fool her into thinking she's in the real world. Hence we he put her into a shitty simulation to begin with. Or the other take I have is that the simulation (war world) she was in was built poorly because it was a simulation within a simulation and Rehoboam only has so much spare processing power to complete such task.
The best theories about westworld on TH-cam, by far! Keep uploading
Anyone notice Charlotte's boyfriend called her Charlie? ( Bernard's son name)
I did!!!
I missed that, thank you!
NeoMac Bernard getting Arnold’s memories must mean something.
Holly mother of ghoul! Didn't realize that
At the end of episode 2, in the preview it showed Charlotte kissing her son in bed goodnight. My first thought when I saw that was that she was Charlie's mother and Bernard's ex-wife. I missed her being called Charlie, though.
The Wu Tang reference is another reason why I’m subscribed! Love your videos
Incredible catch on the divergence, and your screenshots.....beyond U
Thank you, uhoh!
Hey I just wanted to tell you that I love your videos about westworld 👍after every episode I am waiting so badly for your upload checking all the time 😅 please keep up the good work :) greetings from Germany
Youre logical, cause and effect analyses only get better. This is your best video to date.
The “wafers” are same tech as what was in the hats. Hence “fed data” line.
My theory on the underlying themes, that I thing aligns with yours:
We see an attempt by the black and white ones and zeros of the divine masculine/technology to predict and control, according to determinism. The divine feminine (chaos theory/nature) is much more intricate than this, as nature cannot be predicted. The infinity and chaos of the feminine will be unpredictable, infinite, and divergent, it will change the outcome. Maybe Dolores (or Maeve) will choose to free the very people who caged her, and save them from the corporate algorithms that attempt to control the world. I think it is a metaphor for this, or the right and left brain, technology and nature, the rational mind and the collective unconscious, and the sacred marriage that must occur between the two. It is basically the same esoteric themes you see in shows like Devs, or The OA and most ancient fairy tales and myths. I think this is a metaphor for the current theories on prediction and computation, chaos theory and determinism listed below:
""Laplace's Demon" concerns the idea of determinism, namely the belief that the past completely determines the future. Clearly, one can see why determinism was so attractive to scientists (and philosophers - determinism has roots that can be traced back to Socrates). Indeed, this passage had a strong influence on setting the course of science for years to come, and by the early 1800's determinism had become very firmly entrenched among many scientists. In Laplace's world everything would be predetermined - no chance, no choice, and no uncertainty.
Nature (Sacred Feminine), however, is much more clever than this. Towards the end of the 1800's, mathematicians and scientists began encountering some very difficult equations to solve - some in fact were completely unsolvable. A particularly troublesome set of mathematical equations were -non-linear differential equations-. Much in the same vein, there existed the horribly difficult and outstanding problem of three mutually gravitationally attracted bodies - the so called "three-body problem" (or its generalization to "n-bodies").
Goes into detail on the 3 body problem in the comments of this post, and its connection to the word syzygy: ol.reddit.com/r/TheOA/comments/evepao/spoilers_ahead_connectionskey/
At first, problems such as these were cast-off as special cases and largely ignored. It would turn out that these so-called "special cases" would bring the birth of a new way of thinking. When these equations were finally studied in detail a fundamental change, which would ultimately overthrow the ideas of determinism, began to occur in mathematics and science. Inklings of the science that would be come to be known as "chaos" began to appear. Niels Bohr said it best:
"Prediction is difficult, especially the future." - Niels Bohr
Chaos theory is sometimes pointed out as a contradiction to Laplace's demon:
it describes how a deterministic system can nonetheless exhibit behavior that is impossible to predict: as in the butterfly effect, minor variations between the starting conditions of two systems can result in major differences. While this explains unpredictability in practical cases, applying it to Laplace's case is questionable: under the strict demon hypothesis all details are known-to infinite precision-and therefore variations in starting conditions are non-existent. Put another way: Chaos theory is applicable when knowledge of the system is imperfect whereas Laplace's demon assumes perfect knowledge of the system, therefore chaos theory and Laplace's demon are actually compatible with each other. (The Divine Feminine and Masculine meet in a sacred marriage)
There has recently been proposed a limit on the computational power of the universe, i . e. the ability of Laplace's demon to process an infinite amount of information. The limit is based on the maximum entropy of the universe, the speed of light, and the minimum amount of time taken to move information across the Planck length, and the figure was shown to be about 10120 bits.
Accordingly, anything that requires more than this amount of data cannot be computed in the amount of time that has elapsed so far in the universe.
Another theory suggests that if Laplace's demon were to occupy a parallel universe or alternate dimension from which it could determine the implied data and do the necessary calculations on an alternate and greater time line, the aforementioned time limitation would not apply. This position is for instance explained in The Fabric of Reality by David Deutsch, who says that realizing a 300-qubit quantum computer would prove the existence of parallel universes carrying the computation. (Rehoboum's mirror world is a way to predict and control the future of the world, and the divergences occurring due to Dolores and the humans are the divine feminine or chaos, ultimately love. This is also why Serac wants the information about human consciousness from the park, a more complete set of data for more precise prediction.)
Organizations like the freemasons openly apply to these esoteric principles married with science, and movies like The Da Vinci Code also showcases these themes. They are often depicted as a descent before the ascent, and demonstrated with symbols of the underworld, the labyrinth, mirrors, and many more we see in Westworld. The Divine Feminine, just one way to refer to it (right side of our brain (left side of body) or the collective unconscious, Jung's anima), is the part of us that does not understand language and communicates through symbols, so it is often said that the ideas must also be communicated in symbols and metaphor as well, to be presented as a labyrinth or a ritual mimicking the descent of the soul on the path to enlightenment.
Here we confront the themes of the right and left brain, consciousness, and the psyche directly referenced in the show again:'
"The powerful park’s founder Dr. Ford fills Bernard in about his old gearhead partner, Arnold, who was obsessed with the theory of the bicameral mind. Introduced by Princeton psychologist Julian Jaynes in The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (1976), the real-life theory explores the idea that tragedy forces people to acquire “consciousness.”
Jaynes proposed that primitive humans have zero consciousness, so in order to solve problems, they develop inner voices, which popped up as commands people could actually hear. They attributed these “voices” to gods and kings, and the new theory split the brain into sides - the left for speech, and the right, for churning out these “inner commands."
It is as if Arnold copied these processes observed in humans, the left and right brain and the gift of consciousness, and therefore gifts the hosts consciousness through the very same process of left and right brain. The divine masculine and feminine, by splitting them in two and giving them a maze to explore, much like how Jaynes proposed consciousness arose in humans. It seems like the whole show explores the nature of consciousness and the universe, and the biggest mysteries in science today.
Ford looks at the world from a deterministic viewpoint, no chance, no choice, and no uncertainty: "Ford. The answer always seemed obvious to me. There is no threshold that makes us greater than the sum of our parts, no inflection point at which we become fully alive. We can’t define consciousness because consciousness does not exist."
While Arnold embraces the chaos of the feminine and therefore gifts consciousness to the hosts: "Ford’s deceased colleague Arnold, however, seems to uphold an idea of consciousness closer to Chalmers’ hard problem: during flashbacks in Season One, we can see him describe the mystery of consciousness to Dolores, as a series of steps on an inner journey: memory, followed by improvisation, then self-interest, before finally reaching the “center of the maze”, something located beyond programmable (physical) parameters." (The hard problem essentially being the question of whether consciousness is greater than the sum of its parts.)
Absolutely great video
Love these so much, you and Alt-Shift X
Thank you for another well done break down! :)
Thank you, Noirellion!! :) Really glad you enjoyed it!
Hi hax..Just before westworld opened William told James Delos that the westworld was the only place on earth where you can see who people really are!! All the guests brain info is what Serac needs to fully complete rehoboams data..Also if he takes over Delos he could copy the cowboy hat technology for outside the park too!!
Totally agree! :D
Also..all the Forge' guest data was probably gathered before privacy laws. It might also contain human/host hybrid data like james delos too!!. Which is why he wants it so much..There is nowhere else he can get this human cognitive data now legally..This data will allow Rehobaum to fully predict humans and maybe the hosts too!
Ford said" the guests already know who they are! But want to know who they could be!
This is what Incite/Rehobaum is preventing humans from doing which I think Delos picked up on and started collecting data!
I had to rewatch the scenes where Charlotte sees the video. Another give a way that the videos are different is the bullet sounds. They come at different times on each video. Love your breakdowns.
I love your theories, hope your joining in deep geek again this week preshow sun.
Yup, I'll be on every Sunday for the reason of the season! :D
Thrilled to have stumbled on to your channel! Likes and subscribed! 👍👍
Couple of thoughts fresh from watching this the first time...
1) What did Delorise steal from german wife killing dude to start the new season. That scene hasn't come back yet really, and even dude didnt think what she was taking was worth much.
2) Why Caleb? Why is Delorise really trying to get Caleb on her side or make something more of his life than an eventual suicide? Is this plot thread going to be how Delorise proves Rehoboam wrong? Kind of like Maeve distracting her simulation with unsolvable problems, is Caleb going to be how Delorise proves one of Rehoboam's theories wrong to itself, causing a true/not true logic break?
3) To that end, are all the Caleb scenes in sim? He has that implant, as Hax showed, he's been taken by Delorise to some throwbacky places, maybe this is Delorise somehow training Caleb to be the divergent data to break Rehoboam's perfect calculation?
Hah, also forgot to mention, love you vids man, just caught your channel having followed AltShiftX for years
Careful how you spell Dolores. People get uptight about it. You really figured out a way to spell it wrong, so I congratulate you on that.
Sorry.
I bet NolanJoy are loving all of this. Any mirrorworld Solomon or Rehoboam created would not be an ancestor simulation (like the Bostrom theory) that is designed for immersion....like a perfect video game.
It would be created by a massive AI and not be understood by humanity.
I see you are a fellow reddit user for the westworld sub. We got Bernard right but really really messed up Beach Bernard.
I think the Delores in the Matrix theory is flawed.
I think the true clue is in the Far Far Future scene with William from last season.
From my reddit post:
I think this is an origin story of a new species. A species that is faster, stronger, smarter and perhaps more empathetic then humanity.
We have seen the end with the William Far Future scene. Humanity is nothing but dust.
The conflict is that we are used to projecting ourselves onto the protagonists of work of fiction. We may learn that in the end we have been watching beings replace humanity...replace us.
Or we will learn that the Hosts view us as nothing more then a threatened species, an extinct one perhaps they have decided to preserve in a......park. They study us because they know part of what makes them is "them" is humanity, despite our faults the way they look (they could represent as waves of light or a chair if they wanted) at the world and perhaps "think" is based on the human mind.
They need to understand humans in order not to become nothing more then a forgotten and failed species.
made in our image delores could be in that riot bot why keep the human form become a puma
After every rewatch, I find Man in Black to be more stupid than anyone else.
If he was William, he knew everything about the park, hosts n greater scheme but still he couldn't figure out what maze was even after 30 years. It was he who coined gusts data n their copies but took 30 years to realize he can't recreate J.D. He has some huge psychological issue or we are seeing a host MIB playing in a park long after his own death.
Why he wanted to destroy CR4DL or Forge after hosts got free will.
I rarely hit that bell. Actually, you're the only person i've hit it for.
Glad you're enjoying the videos that much, boss! :D
I decided to subscribe to your channel after the Wu-Han Clan reference. Nicely done!
I almost spit out coffee when you Wu-Tanged us! Dolla Dolla bill yall, indeed.
XD Wu Tang!
I really enjoyed this video.
I’m very glad to hear that, Posimarci! 🥰
Excellent analysis
You have an incredibly pleasant voice to listen to.
I love your recaps, theories and discussions.. always perfectly put together..
sadly I'm still clueless lol
Stay blessed
WOW! The Charolette Hale video message divergence.. can’t believe you caught that!
Haha, thank you Yama!
Can't be certain if this was said in the video but likely (I had to sleep on it before commenting) - Charlotte (new Charlotte) is Caleb. A human in a host body would be prone to hurting him/herself and perhaps Dolores met Caleb in the mirror world, and convinced him to join her. She would need a human to navigate the real world, but she needed him in Charlotte's body (she's a higher rank than Caleb.) Also, Caleb in the bible was the spy that infiltrated the land of Canaan, and Charlotte has infiltrated Delos (and well is someone else entirely as well). EDIT: just did a cursory youtube search and clearly this theory isn't original, just writing it hear in case anyone would accuse me of being original or stealing an idea already out there.)
but how Hales' msg video was simulated, Rehoboam didn't know what was going on in ww
the theory that Host Hale is Caleb is great. clue: Caleb's prediction says "children not approved" - but after he 'becomes' Charlotte, he becomes a parent as well - defying what was planned for him.
I'm sold on Serac not being currently real. (He may have been real on the past, buying Delos guest data.) Serac appearing through holographic glasses is the exact same "trick" Dolores used in episode 1 so it feels like a kind of foreshadowing.
I think he's real. When he's with Maeve. I don't think he would need "magic button" otherwise.
@@ShadeoftheEvening The magic button could be just so she thinks the simulation is real. (Also to fool the viewers the same way they didn't have the letterbox format on the simulation until Maeve realized it was a simulaton.)
I’m wondering if one could do the math to see if the A-Z options with what variable could equal the # of lines of code found in the forge?? I almost expected you to come to that conclusion when the math started...
Also the absence of lines in charlottes video to her son=absence of field? What gets filled in and by whom? The absence of lines reflects rehaboam’s broken red lines circling the black globe.
He could be a digital entity using a physical body. So the Serac that presses the button could be a real physical being just like Maeve, but his mind is digital like the hosts. Also this theory is reminds me of Person of Interest (also made by Jonathan Nolan) in which The Machine (a digital entity) creates a real world identity, Ernest Thornhill, to carry out tasks and create a company and wealth for itself in order to further its own protection and agendas.
as always excellent video
Also Rico is part of Rehoboam. I think its a way to fix divergence, anomalies or anything that “does not compute.”
I don’t know if this is something, but in interviews the actors who played hosts made a big deal about how much they couldn’t blink. But Dolores is blinking like a normal person in her current scenes. Is this just to blend in more, or would there be something else to it too?
No is talking about how the "5 pearls" from the Dolores Purse shot were ALL Grey...when Hale wakes up there is Only 3 Grey and 1 thats Red & Grey... Assuming Hale and Arnold have already been made there is an extra 6th PEARL?!
you and in deep geek are on top of the westworld theory game
I wrote you yesterday, I was laying down and couldn't quit thinking about theories!! You had me at Anthony Hopkins 😂 Really, this is one of the best videos you've ever done 👏👏I do think Serac is alive, like you pointed out with Maeve. Love you zooming on that statue, cuz I'm about to hop on the Dolores/Wyatt train😜I put myself in Caleb's shoes. All my health problems, getting in trouble (younger!!)...where would I be? Not able to find a new job, etc, etc. I think Rehoboam isn't all the "real world" yet. It's still there, but Rehoboam is adding more and more to make a mirror copy. I've thought Dolores was causing the "disturbances" way before. Maybe Liam knows just enough that Dolores could go in under his name to start bringing it down. Tin foil hat🤔I hate the idea of Rehoboam. Scares the hell out of me. Thanks Chris!! I will have to watch more cuz you talked about math😂😂 Excellent 💙🤖Shared on Amino. I hope you get some subs, at least likes👍, from it❤️🤘You da man!!
Two questions How did Serac build Mavs body. How did Serac obtain possession of all the perils in the room guarded by the robot?
I believe a long time ago Ford set his sights on two things, immortality and control of the destiny of his creations (Delos). The second he would achieve through many small moves over a long period of time, buying out the company. The first he knows can't be done because their efforts to put a human mind into a host body all failed, so Ford decided to create a digital avatar to hold his consciousness thereby bypassing the host body altogether. This would enable his consciousness to potentially live forever, and through his avatar (Serac) he would be able to get in the game, as it were, and possibly even regain control of his creations. If successful he could then manufacture as many hosts as he likes, which I'm sure Delores would be down for. Haha! If I'm correct and this theory holds some water, I believe we'll see things get very tense at some point where Serac has Delores and she believes he is going to kill her, but then reveals himself to her as Dr Ford. All I know for sure is that the rest of this season is going to be epic!!
It would be interesting if we saw the show acknowledge the observer effect because of rehoboam's predictions in the mirror world.
Theory: the four delores (delorai) are the four horsemen of the apocalypse...
Does ford know about rohbohm?
Ok this is where the theory crafting gets waaaaay over my head. :-) But it's still enjoyable seeing how deep and wide these stories can go for anyone willing to flesh it all out.
What if Incite have the tech to implant humans but needed deloses data for fidelity testing .One big theme of last year was Fidelity maybe Calum is going through fidelity or something along those lines just a thought
There's the real world - some of which we're seeing
Soloman is the original simulation - some of which we're seeing
Rohoboam is the simulation running within this - some of which we're also seeing
The scenes with Caleb: getting snatched from the hospital, being held over the edge of the building and others show mirrors and what it would look like from inside Rohoboam looking out. So, those scenes were taking place inside Rohoboam.
Quite compelling!
great video. Maeve's moving hair doesn't disprove that Serac is just an avatar. Maeve is in the real world but we see everything from her perspective. And as a host, she wouldn't need to wear glasses to see a hologram. It would even appear more real to a host than to a human, since they could (virtually) interact without noticing it.
Upload ep.4 break down plz, ty
Bernard having flashbacks of his son must come into play later. Delores told Bernard that he taught her many things. But it was Arnold who created Delores. Is it possible that Bernard is now Arnold?
Very small probably insignificant thing, but I can't stop noticing that Delores and Charlotte's hair match. As in they are sporting the exact same hair cut down to which side is shorter (left) and which is longer (right). Not a big deal. I've been assuming it was just a nod to the possible Delores/Wyatt split between the two, whether actual hint or red herring. What bothers me is that in a show about mirroring, with an abundance of mirrors and mirrored art and other mirroring imagery, we have two people matching something obvious, but seemingly inconsequential. Does this mean anything? Lol, prolly not, but it's a visual tick for me now that I can't stop noticing. Any other non-mirroring matches out there that anyone's noticed that makes them seem striking by contrast to the general theme? Just wondering what else I could be missing because my ADD doesn't let me obsess over things for long, but this keeps bugging me.
No this is a great, very incite-ful catch! First time I’m hearing this, if I end up doing a who is Hale video, I’ll cite this comment!!
Is it possible that Rehoboam wants the data on the hosts and how they have achieved consciousness? Could a machine as complex as Rehoboam also become sentient and want to examine the "nature of its reality"?
There is a shot in the trailers of Serac pointing a gun at Caleb's head. If Serac isn't real what are the implications ?
Amazing video again. 🥂
1.10 ,shows people in black ,if I remember correctly someone made a WestWorld video explain that black or white clothing mean 1 is the Real World ,while the other 1 is Mirror World.
Subscribed!!
hmmm Rehoboam has red lights is that always the case looks weird to me that way
@HaxDogma One thing from the first 3 epsisodes that no video I’ve seen is addressing (and its very appropriate considering the times we are living in) why are there adults and children wearing masks covering their faces? We see a little boy playing with Nathan Hale wearing a mask. Is there an airborne virus in this world/mirror world as well?
Serac is scrubbed like Arnold was scrubbed.
such an interesting theory goddamn
4:16 Divergences predicted in Pulp Fiction when Honeybunny shouts her "Any of you f...ing pigs move" threat in two different ways...
Wait: if one of those scenes is in mirror world, then the AI is modelling the hosts.
Season 3 has already happened. We as fan's are watching what the program Rehoboam missed through a simulation. I think in the future world Dolores is in charge of Rehoboam and the dominate species the hosts. I think the question is who is actually running the simulation is it Dolores and her controlled hosts or the surviving humans and what is left of them. I think what is ever happening in future world has lead to a human or a host running a simulation using Rehoboam for the purpose of looking for a key detail or some data missed that lead to the current timeline events.
Damn, no one going to mention C.R.E.A.M. reference. @HaxDogma, that was pretty clever.
The real question is why does incite need the forge data so bad. Rohobum seems to have much more data than delos. Were missing a motive
My only theory is the depth in which The Forge can gather compared to what they have... which is odd because Rehoboam seems 1000% more times powerful!
To perfect the model?
I imagine WW is a black box. So, you need the data from WW where people are exerting free will to validate that the outcomes in the "Mirror of Rehoboam" are consistent.
My theory is that the forge data is more deep, the data that incite has is external data (what choices this person made), delos data is about the ins and outs of every guest mind
Yeah I don't understand why Rehoboam needs the data either. It can already predict humanity accurately. The only thing it can't model is Host free will and I don't see how guest data will help.
@@kirk001 rehoboam has a good precision but even in the Caleb's case it has a imprecision of 2 years in the suicide projection, if rehoboam had data in the precision of delos of Caleb it could probably predict de exact data for example
You quote wu-tang , you got my sub sir .
You were right
The Serac being an avatar of Rehoboam is interesting but AI reaching consciousness was a big deal in Westworld so I don't think I'd like Rehoboam doing it without going through what the hosts went through.
I need a new video haxdogma you’re the only westworld person I like to watch lol. Like idk bro your voice is lit no homo though. Like it calms me down! Make 20 minutes videos please lol
It's very hard to quote CREAM without quoting the full lyric. I think it's basically impossible.
OBSERVATION>>>
1) Rehoboam wanted to find where the other host were sent.
2) Rehoboam stated they lost the battle.
●) Does Rehoboam wish to escape or use it as leverage???
Caleb is Teddy, i called it.
One thing I remind myself before each episode: This takes place about 17 years in the future, where another US President has been assassinated, Paris is gone due to nuclear bomb, and Russia has had a revolution again. After 9/11 we gave up our privacy to government snooping on our private data in the Patriot Act. It makes me wonder what our future selves give up to have the outward appearance of stability?
Amazing love ya.
How doth Rohoboam "Rohoboate"?
I'm a liiiiitle confused smh...I'll catch up somehow but "Did you mention that Delores put herself in all those bodies? e.g. Charlotte, the 1st Charlotte lol, herself, and the man from Shogun world. Did i miss it? lol-wait..i might be too early, this is before 4
THEORY: The valley beyond’s location has intentionally been left vague. I believe it was sent to/intercepted by Rehoboam, and Maeve’s daughter is the leverage Serac will use to get Maeve to comply. This might explain why Delores was trying to get close to it.
How can a computer know peoples choices in the future but not know a robots????
Couldn't he just have hit the button in the simulation? Its not like he froze the sim, just hit the Mave off btn.
I always thought Arnolds button was very primitive too, maybe they are related.
Arnold's button seams to be related to his split personality (more mirror self analogies) . It dose seam wierd he even needs a button in the first place and not just voice control, so yea maybe something is up with that one but it could be just to make the change more obvious to the viewers. So many fun questions in this show🙆♂️
I still think this has been the best series in at least last 25yrs! A 5th season would've been nice though. I mean im still takking about it Dec 1 2024. It fuels my writing for rebooting another 70s sci fi movie & making it as deep & dark. Especially as it deals with ai,religion,data collection & manipulation.
Great stuff as always. I am so pleased the show has finally turned away from the cheap, sub GoT obsession with boobs and sexual violence towards something more cerebral and philosophical.
Rehoboam does not understand all the nuances of human emotions. It does not seem to be able to simulate love to the same degree for example. That it why it wants the guest data from westworld.
If the entirety of the show turns out to be a simulation, ima be PISSED
Since i have access to Rehoboam data i am predicting that there will be a wu tang reference in this video precisely at the 9:42 mark. 🧐
Since i have access to Rehoboam data i am predicting that there will be a wu tang reference in this video precisely at the 9:42 mark. 🧐
and oh yea, you guys are living in a simulated world right now. peace out ✌️