"I can't shit upwards" is such a matter-of-fact ridiculous statement but also kind of ties into Chelsea's statement on charity. People can pressure their peers and those below them to donate to a cause, but it's way harder to get those that are better off than them to listen and contribute to improving the system.
My favorite theory that I've seen is that you are rewarded for cannibalism or for killing in the tower. We can see that when Goreng survives with Trimagasi, they drop from level 48 to level 171. After Goreng kills and eats Trimagasi, he rises up to floor 33 with Imoguiri. After they survive together again, they drop down to floor 202. After he eats her body, he rises up to floor 6. This symbolizes how society rewards selfishness and stepping on others. I think the panna cotta theory is viable, in that Goreng is definitely dying at the end. On floor 333, he's already dying and drags himself to the platform, but in the bottom floor, he sees Trimagasi's illusion and just gets up and walks away from him. This means that he and Baharut could be imagining the girl, as he wanted to justify Miharu's killing spree after her death. He imagines the girl, hence why the room doesn't turn hot or cold after the Panna Cotta isn't tossed; the room never existed. The panna cotta is what's actually brought back up in the end, where the chef finds it and gets angry at the cooks because he thinks that it wasn't eaten because of the hair. When interviewed, the director of the movie said that he envisioned floor 333 as not existing and that it was Goreng imagining what he should have done.
I think the administrative lady killed herself when they woke up on level 205 because that's when she realized she'd been lied to about how deep the floors go by the administrators meaning the food would never be enough
@@FBIagent22-q1d yes they were, she told him there were only 200 and felt guilty and also upset about her dog, it was bc of both, she knew they would get nothing
If I were told by my higher ups that there's only this many floors and that the people *I personally* am sending into The Platform will be fine, only to find out that they lied to me, the people *are* suffering and that there's more floors than I was told, making me realize just how many people I've doomed into starving to death, being murdered, or becoming cannibals just to survive, I would've done the same thing out of sheer guilt tbh
ikr... I was so enthralled by the acting and the theme in general that not until ten minutes before the movie ends that I start to wonder, "wait how the fuck is the platform floating down without any pillars or pulley system?"
I respect the hell out of james taking a second to make sure he understands what Chelsea's saying before he agrees with her. That kind of integrity, even with your fiance, is a reason why I appreciate your opinion so much.
@Jeremiah Hernandez I mean the cellmates don't stay the same all the time, one person could've told the other person, that person could then exchange that info with the next cellmate they have, and so on.
But how was the rumor started? The lady didn't talk. The admin had to have said something because they were the ones that put the child there at the end of each month to see if anyone would feed her.
i think the monthly changes even reflect the month by month situations that a lot of poor people live in. You can be good one month, but then one small slip up leads to a rough next month
I think if 200 people say their favorite food is chicken then chicken may only be included on the platform once. There aren't 666 different foods on there.
@@lenisemicolon account for the fact that many people probably named a dish that someone else had already named. so if 50 people do say chicken, that cuts that 666 number to 606 different foods. and so on
Spanish is a gendered language but when speaking of “kids” or ‘kid” we use “niños” or “niño” so when someone doesn’t know the gender of a child or there are a group of children of multiple genders one typically uses the masculine term. Just trying to clear up the confusion 😅
So it's not really "She is looking for her son" but more like " She is looking for her kid" - I'm a bit confused with the translation, thank for clearing up!
Quynh Chi Nguyen yes, Spanish is always translated literally in English even though it’s the wrong way. Another example is slang, the literal translation is not the correct meaning
I don't really agree, I would if he was saying "niño" but he's talking about "hijo" and as a Spaniard I would never use "hijo" to talk about a child I don't know the gender. Also if I remember correctly they are shocked to discover is a girl, so at least I think the main character understands it as the child is a boy
@@hilariocity__ yea seems like people are just forgetting that whole scene of them being surprised and accepting a make shift "translation error" that isn't actually a error just to make sense of it for themselves. Coincidentally those are the same people that don't accept the idea of the girl being a hallucination
My interpretation of the ending is that the little girl is always on the bottom level. the higher ups in the administration know she's there and don't want anyone to know that a child is suffering due to their "perfect" system. So the mother rides down to the bottom level each month to make sure she eats. The reason I believe she is always at the bottom is because (as this film is an allegory for capitalism) she represents all the innocent children who are born into this system and are unable to change it themselves, whose parents have to do terrible things just to make sure that their children can survive. They are always either ignored or forgotten about during conversations of "fixing" capitalism. Do children deserve to suffer, starve? Most people say no, but then we have children in schools going into lunch dept because their family can't afford to pay for lunch. And people make all sorts of excuses for why it's the fault of the family for not applying for a free lunch program or making sure that their child has food, instead of questioning the system (as you said earlier in the podcast). The child in this movie wasn't the intended target of the system, but the system itself is why she is in it (allowing inmates to do whatever they want to each other, which allowed her mother to be raped and impregnated). What do they hope to happen when she is sent to the top? I think it's like you two said, they hope to cause a domino effect that will change the system. Surely people would never allow a system to remain in place that allows innocent children to starve and suffer, something I already stated that the majority of people would agree is not something that should even exist, let alone be tollerated. What actually happens when she is sent to the top? Well, we already know the answer to that, don't we?
@@williamkelly5689 since the film only shows the mother going down once a month, then maybe. but since the mother also kills potentially multiple people on her way down and is shown to be okay with eating and feeding other people human flesh, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that she would bring the child a body that could last for at least a few days. I personally think it's a disservice to the film and it's creators to try to take the film too literally, so I honestly haven't given it too much thought as my interpretation is mostly metaphorical
I have a family member that works in a middle school cafeteria, she tells me all the time about the smaller groups of kids who appreciate the meals but the majority that get free food only to dump most of it in the trash and get junk food from machines or after school. So sad to see the waste.
A minor critique: While St. Bernard does guide Dante, that is only at the very end of the Paradiso; Virgil guides Dante through Hell and Purgatory, and Beatrice guides Dante through almost all of Heaven. Also, the very random nature of being moved up and down the prison feels in conflict with the fixed and poetic justice nature of the Divine Comedy; it's a much more nihilistic view of life and morality, up to and including becoming the ubermensch (literally coming from above each other level as he descends), not from a desire to dominate, but in an effort to create morality and in the defense of beauty and art. (That said, 333 is a traditional holy number in certain Christian mystic schools of thought, as the perfect representation of the triune God, so it's not like that symbolism is *totally* absent, but it's... let's say, of diminished import)
I liked the ambiguity to be honest. I know most people aren't fans of this and prefer concrete, definitive endings but in this case I think it was executed fine.
The play no exit is about Hell and the message ends up being that "people are hell". With 333 floors, there are 666 patients, and they are the reason they are messed up, in the movies eyes. It is also interesting to see the people put so much effort into the food, but they do not see the result, only that no food returns to the top. They dont know how the food is eaten, just that it is gone. Liked this movie a lot, would highly recommend!
ccabral92 what I got from the girl was that everyone forgets about how the children feel when life gets desperate or hard and so this symbolised her left their. Her feelings about the situation were forgotten on the bottom floor. As long as children are fed and clothed we seem to forget about their opinions in times of crisis. I don’t think this was anyone’s particular child I think it is supposed to symbolise all children and the messiah wanting to save them all, but he died for them instead.
THANK YOU for not shying away from the politics and openly discussing what you honestly thought of the movie and it's messages! Suuuuper tired of people bitching about "being too political", like, dude just go watch Trasnformers for the 17th time if you're not interested in movies having something to say Also I really liked your conclusions and the social commentary you both extracted from this, really cool to hear your opinions ^^
I felt like this movie's message relates to what everyone is going through at the moment.... If you only ate what you needed, everyone could have food.... Like if everyone only took what they needed the rest of us would have toilet paper, hand sanitizer, tissues, milk, sugar, rice, etc... Moral of the story.... STOP HOARDING!
So happy you're covering this movie!! It's the first thing I've watched in a while that really left me with a lot of thoughts & a need to discuss it. I have a lot of thoughts so sorry in advance for this long comment! I definitely agree with the Divine Comedy comparison! The number 3 has a lot of meaning in general in Christianity, being the number of the Trinity - God, the Son (Jesus), & the Holy Ghost. Also, the first level is 48, & if you use numerology - 4+8 = 12, 1+2 = 3. Level 171 is similar: 1+7+1 = 9, 9/3 = 3 (like level 333 is 3+3+3 = 9; there are also three people on this level - Goreng, Baharat, & the girl). Level 33 - more threes, but 3+3 = 6, which is a number connected to the devil. 202: 2+0+2 = 4, which is the number of death in Japan - but I think it's mostly just to show that there are more than 200 levels. Level 6 - as above, a number connected to the devil but also 6/2 (two people) = 3. I also feel like the VSMC/the Hole is somewhat "neutral" in that each floor only has meaning when it is assigned by the individuals in the building. It's a capitalist hell when the individuals on the upper floors decide to be selfish, but it can also become a socialist community if everyone agrees to ration the food. The fact that everyone changes floors once per month gives everyone an equal opportunity to thrive/suffer as determined by the greater community. There is no way to stockpile resources (food etc) to maintain the power you have while you're at the top. Everyone has a chance to share one anothers' perspective of life at the top/bottom/middle class. I definitely see Miharu as a version of Mary, Jesus' mother - her child apparently didn't come into the facility with her, but still appears as a sort of immaculate conception (plus Goreng has a sexual dream about Miharu which connects to this; this would make Goreng the film's representation of Joseph). But on that note, can we actually believe what the characters tell us? eg. Imaguri says she didn't know the truth about the Hole, but is that just a lie she tells to soothe her own guilt? This leads into the idea of unreliable narration - even Goreng's motivations aren't entirely clear. We're left wondering, what is the truth? You become suspicious of everyone else, just like the characters themselves do. Regarding Imaguri's cancer: this could represent the "evil" or corruption she's been complicit in. She chose to ignore the truth while it festered beneath her, and only allowed herself to see the truth once she could no longer ignore it. As for the panna cotta - I feel like it's regarded as such an important thing because in the inmates' world, food is the most important/holy thing. But as you said, they realize that feeding the little girl is what's actually important (& if you follow the idea of the immaculate conception, the girl represents Jesus, the incarnation of sacrifice). As well, since people become food in the Hole, the girl herself is essentially just another thing to eat; yet she still returns unscathed - just like their original plan. She hasn't been devoured by the system. If you've read this far: a) thank you! & b) I cannot believe this ended with you mentioning Passion of the Christ haha! Thanks for the amazing podcast episode! ♥ Can't wait for the next one!
@@pocketkerrie The Gospels, in particular, are pretty important when it comes to an astronomical amount of media, so it's a pretty fun thing to look at if you're into interpreting stuff.
I like your mention of how the VSMC could be neutral, in that it allegorically could be either capitalist or socialist based on the people inside and how they choose to do things because when I was watching it, I clearly saw the link to wealth distribution and the potential and actual greed of capitalists and class, but given the limits of the allegory (no analogy is perfect) it seemed easier and more accurate to simplify the problem in the hole to a learned and systematic distrust and hatred of your cellmate as well as the people above and below you, which comes off as a problem of the culture of the hole or the people's self-preservation instincts kicking in. That's all I have to add, I hadn't really thought of the child as Jesus, especially since the movie spent all movie telling us that Goreng was The Messiah, and it's good, especially since she replaces the panna cotta as the message and people are plenty good for eating in the hole.
27:40 This is actually not the case. It is actually relative poverty that causes aggressive crime. Relative poverty is very different from poverty. Poverty is when everyone does not have enough to eat and survive. Relative poverty is when you don't have enough to eat and your neighbor does or vice versa. The places and communities with the highest Gini coeffecient (most wealth distribution) have the highest crime rates. However places that are in complete penury with a flat wealth distribution have almost no crime at all because everyone is in the same situation. The tower prison in this movie is a perfect example of relative poverty, not poverty. Just something interesting.
The crime was all the people on the top eating with such gluttony as not to leave anything for the others below. Just like real life. We just went through this in 2020 and it was only for something as simple as toilet paper.
@@FBIagent22-q1d "I demonstrate, in the first place, that the state of men without civil society (which state we may properly call the state of nature) is nothing else but a mere war of all against all; and in that war all men have equal right unto all things." -Thomas Hobbes This is simply the nature of human beings.
@@FBIagent22-q1d I disagree. I tend to believe that humans are bad, unless they are domesticated by civil society. The only reason Goreng was ever kind, is because society conditioned him to be so. I find your analogy of the platform to toilet paper shortages to be a bit facile.
@@magic22222222222 We can't blame society for how we treat others. It is our responsibility to be good. I do understand why some are not. I got a taste of it during COVID. I think we all did. Even when I didn't want to hoard, I did because I knew if I didn't buy when it was there, I wouldn't have anything. The difference is, I did year with those around me.
Yeah, no building can exist at that scale. So the building continues underground. Probably only 20 or 50 floors are above the ground. I can't remember seeing any visible light coming thru any windows in the 100 levels or lower.
So, what my theory is: Maharu goes down each month and kills the little girl's cell mate so she can eat that month. Maharu travels down, checks on the little girl, sees which level she's at. If she's at a good level, the little girl's cell mate probably get to live. But if she hasn't been eating that much, or at all, Maharu will kill them so the little girl can eat for the rest of the month. That would make the most sense to me, though I'm not sure what that would by symbolic of
I have a theory that the child was planted there as a sort of test by the establishment, that or acts as more a symbolic scenario than something that actually unfolds. by this point both protagonists are delirious and worn out, could easily have been a strange hallucination or fantasy
My theory is that, the only way to ride the platform to the top, is to be on it when it starts its upward journey from level 333. Whenever we see the platform rising from the prisoners point of view, it is travelling at breakneck speeds, which would prevent practical boarding. That way, the child could potentially survive the journey from bottom to top. Although, that leaves the problem of deceleration before level 0. I doubt the prisoners residing on level 1 saw a really slow dinner table floating upwards towards an exit every night, and didn't think about jumping on. Thats about as far as I could rationale out (in the fun sort of way).
Update to my own thought lol. Each floor is shown to have independent environmental controls via the pit's ability punish floors with extreme heat/cooling for holding on to food past the allotted feeding time. Its plausible that they could sleep gas the top floors beforehand to guarantee that they wouldn't mess with the returning platform.
The whole concept on the lower 100 or so levels also is super absurd because the system would be extremely unsustainable if virtually all of the people on the lower levels died of starvation every month. I can't imagine a prison can sustain around 300 new prisoners a month knowing they're going to die.
A panna cotta is a gelatin-based custard like dish, made from a creme anglaise usually infused with vanilla or orange or some other flavouring agent. I've been making them for years, they are INCREDIBLE! Serve them with raspberry coulis and fresh berries, and you have the best dessert imaginable!
Reminds me of a quote. “There are all theses stories of so grate hero that sacrifices them self to save the day. And with there sacrifice the survivors all chear and the good guys win. But the hero doesn’t get to see that ending they will never know if there sacrifice really made a difference they will never know if the day was really saved.”
i have been LOVING all the extra content lately i am so thankful for you two!! as a quarantine request, i am BEGGING that you do a discussion about The Lodge bc I ended up seeing that movie instead of the Invisible Man when the theaters were open and it was actually a lot of fun and very dark and I just love listening to you two talk!! if you’re able to that would make my life :’)
For future reference, Panna Cotta is Double Cream (that's Heavy Cream for Yanks) barely set with a little gelatine. The one in the film, like much of the food oddly, looks somewhat old fashioned and appears to be heavily set. This film is reminiscent of The Menu in that perfectionism is flawed and has a dark side.
My theory about the ending is that the girl didn't exist because everything about a child being there makes no sense at all in this story unless you take in account she could be another hallucination. there are multiple reasons to think this. First of Miharu never actually talked to anyone, even the one showing kindness towards her so the whole thing about her son/kid could easily be made up my inmates to explain her going down. The girl itself is way to well-fed for someone that has been living on 333, the child being in there makes no sense at all because why would a child be in the facility to begin with? Miharu still came in alone, many people discredit the women her words because she got some information like the platform wrong but that's simply because she was told that. With Miharu she personally handled her case and file so she knew everything about Mihura since she had gained that information herself and wasn't just told that, hence why that information can be trusted. Furthermore both of them lost a lot of blood when getting down there so hallucinations would be common, during the whole last part our protagonist was limping but in the end he was walking straight so he was prob already dead at that point even hallucinating the whole scene with the child eating the dessert. The message was still the dessert and the dessert is what got send up. When the old man was checking it for a hair in the middle of the movie it's because they thought that was the reason nobody ate it. Missing the message of the dessert completely, standing in for how the wealthy of our society will never be able to understand the poor and why they do things.
This is a solid theory. I was wondering how the significance of the hair fit in. I knew it meant that they would misunderstand the message, showing the futility of their struggle.
I just graduated with degrees in sociology and criminology and I just really appreciate your analysis and rationale of the characters. Being trapped in poverty absolutely causes the worst types of things, you guys nailed it.
This movie was exactly like parasite in a different manor. The trailers are made differently, but once you find the symbolism, you’ll understand everything.
The scene with the apple, where the room gets cold and he has to throw the apple down. I thought that might have been a commentary on how people have to live day to day. There isn't enough to save for later. Living pay check to pay check etc, etc.
The movie was actually WAY less political than I thought it would be; I was worried it'd pivot into a pretentious preachy completely misinformed piece of shit that beats you over the head about the evils of capitalism. Instead, it was a fun movie with an interesting premise and light messaging not just about politics but human nature as well. I mean obviously it was pro-socialism in its messaging but it was also actually willing to critique it as well (which makes sense given Spain's past struggles with fascist socialist dictators). Ending was a little abrupt but overall I very much enjoyed it.
Yea the problem a contrived scenario like this is that it doesn't account for the creation of wealth and resources we see in the real world. People on Earth live better now than humanity ever has in the past. World poverty and health standards are the highest they have ever been compared to hundreds or thousands of years ago. Wealth and technology are not finite - they can grow. They are no infinite either, but spread over time we extract a higher standard of living than our ancestors. Technology and free, open markets are key. And there is no way to move up the tower through your actions as it's all random who goes where. Reality is not so limited - there are huge parts of life that are random and unfair, but people do have the ability to move higher by making wise choices, an move lower by making poor ones. I make more, and live better, than my parents, who live better and are better educated their parents etc. Under capitalism some have the option to become vastly wealthy even if starting from a low social strata. My aunt is a very rich doctor who ran her own business, yet her parents were poor uneducated ranchers. Most will not become ultra-wealthy of course, but rapid and vast improvements happen all the time in an open economy. These sorts of things are not accounted for in such a contrived premise the film represents. And as such, I'm glad the politics were less heavy handed than I feared. The strongest part of the film for me was seeing how people react to such a hostile environment. It brought out the worst of people generally, but some were still able to hold onto their sanity, dignity, and compassion. The point of the film was less about capitalism vs collectivism, but how people's basic nature of greed and violence and gluttony makes neither approach fully successful. If everyone simply ate only what they needed, the entire problem would be solved, but as the film explicitly points out, humans tend to do the opposite. But not all societies and cultures degenerate like that. There are numerous examples in the real world of social accountability and responsibility being a major driver of group behavior. I think the ending was perfect - open to interpretation and didn't hold our hands and try to explain away everything. A very similar film to this, with an equally vague (some would say frustrating) is Cube. If you haven't seen it you might check it out. The original is good, but skip the sequels.
About the gender confusion at roughly 25:00: Yes, Spanish is a gendered language, but the male gendered words are the default (as in many other languages), so you'd usually use the same word for "kid/child" (of unknown gender) as you would for son. It's not unreasonable that Spanish Hannibal Lecter wouldn't actually know the child's gender, having probably heard this stuff second/third/fourth-hand. But that could still explain Gorang's confusion when discovered it was a girl. It wouldn't have been unreasonable for him to assume the child was a son if the same word is used for both. Incidentally, in the dubbed version that my Netflix defaulted to, they do say child the whole time, not son.
So I don't know if this is a problem with the subtitles or not, but what the wise man says is to offer dialogue first and if that fails then you use violence, not that violence shouldn't be used at all.
202 is Month 4 btw, you got that wrong. Month 1 was level 48, Month 2 was 171, where Trimagasi tied him up, Month 3 was level 33 with Imoguiri, Month 4 was level 202 with Imoguiri again, then it was Month 5, level 6 with Baharat. Considering Goreng said he only asked for a 6 month sentence, he was so close to escaping and telling the world.
Okay, I‘m really confused now but am I the only one that heard the women who used to work for the facility say that she interviewed the „mother“ 10 month ago? Which would mean that she could have only been in there for 15 month tops so the child couldn‘t be this old yet. I actually rewatched the scene in english, german and spanish and though my spanish isn‘t the best I‘m pretty sure she said the 10 month thing in all of the versions. That‘s why I believe the Pannacotta-theory to be true...
We thought the lady had lied or was tricked and she was. The admin was the one that put the child in the building at the end of each month to see if anyone would feed her. The two men fed her the panna cotta and sent her back up.
I love Franz Kafka's The Metamorphosis. It's about this dude who lives with his parents and sister in this rinky dink appartment- they have a maid too. So the guy works and basically all he does is work to support his family and their basic needs. One day he turned into a giant roach and his family eventually just keeps him in his room. They try to act normal at first but they can't help feeling revolted about what he has become. One day he just up and dies, the maid tosses his body in the trash, the family sells the apartment and leaves town. At this point they feel relieved that the guy is dead and no longer a burden to them.
Spanish is gendered but the gender-neutral forms of words are usually masculine by default. So hija is specifically daughter, but hijo means either son or gender-nonspecific child. *also, eating something your body can’t use like paper or cotton is an unfortunate trick used by people who are starving to lessen the hunger pains by tricking your stomach into thinking it’s full. It won’t help to actually feed you but it makes the hunger hurt less. **YASS Passion through a horror lens, holy crap I cannot wait to hear you guys talk about that movie!!! Ignore the nay-sayers if there are any, PLEASE I got so excited when you first mentioned it and would love that episode to exist!
i would absolutely love to see this as the original stage performance it was going to be before it got adapted for film! it sounds like such an interesting challenge
Dessert fact: Panna Cotta is an Italian gelatinized based heavy cream treat. It's normally just heavy cream, gelatin, and sugar, with whatever extra flavors you'd like to add (espresso, vanilla, and chocolate are the most common)
Maybe she says boy to hide the fact that there's a young girl in a correctional facility? I haven't seen the movie yet so I don't know the full context but maybe that's why.... Edit: especially if she herself was rape
Blue Raine i know i'm late lol but i personally don't think that. I think it was either a Mistranslation or a representation of how things are lost after being told so many times.
I'm a lifelong horror fan that just recently discovered Dead Meat. You two introduced me to my two new favorite horror movies, Tales from the Hood and The Platform! Both movies have great spooks and important messages best conveyed via horror. I love your podcast and appreciate both of your insights. Looking forward to checking out His House!
Im thinking the people who control the system know about the child and keep her on the bottom floor, or the mother put her there and feeds her kinda like you guys touched on, or the last thing which is the sickest if she was born there she wouldn't act like a normal child so maybe she got put on a floor or something to get her into a situation where she needed to escape so she found a safe place and ate whatever she could to still look healthy?? just my ideas im a huge fan of yall and i was so happy you guys covered this in a podcast but low key a kill count would be fun but maybe not worth the time.
don quijote is more symbolic than it seems (i guess it's more obvious to spaniards because we study it thoroughly) but aside of the literal comparisons between both story and character arc, don quijote is also the book that illustrates the change between romanticism and realism in spanish literature and i think they mean it like superficial activism VS actually changing things, between other things (also don quijote is not handsome, he's an old man on the verge of death that is delusional about the world, everyone mocks him and ends up dying alone and not finding the woman of his dreams -because he made her up)
James, being a subscriber for you and MatPat for a few years now, I will personally admit that I have no bias between the two of you. Both channels never exceed to amaze me and the content you are willing to produce for your fans never ceases to put a smile on my face. However, as painful as it is, there is one issue with you that I need to address. For the love of God, please stop stealing MatPat's dongle. You're starting to scare all of us now James. Please, do what's right and seek help for your dongle addiction. Together, we can get through this bud.
i was watching this on my tv and at around 17:00 my cat got close to the tv and started meowing bc of Lucy and then went around the tv to look for her.
@@Firegirl483 I think this has to be true. We see the dishwashers cleaning the dishes that have been sent back to the kitchen empty. Otherwise when the platform reached the top the whole room would be filled with flying shards of shattered glass, ceramic, porcelain, etc., and they'd have to buy new flatware each time.
I would imagine it would slow down. The same would happen to the dishes and they appear to always be intact. I wonder why they weren't given any cutlery? They had to eat like animals.
I just watched this the other night and was going to recommend that you two dedicate a podcast to this movie. Not to my surprise ...you guys were already on point! Thank you 🙏
The girl at the end is imagined by Goering, he's already been dealing with hallucinations throughout the film and just wants to believe that miharu was looking for her child rather than being insane because she saved him (hence the reason the child is a girl despite being referred to as a boy earlier on goering doesnt remember the childs gender as told to him by trimigasi so his head fills in the blanks) the platform doesnt stay on floor 333 for the full time because there actually isnt anyone on it, lets be honest an 8 year old child wouldnt survive in 'the platform' its entire life. in reality goering sends the panacotta back up (thinking its the girl), it gets rejected by the out of touch 1% for having a hair on it in that now "out of sequence" shot from earlier in the film. there is no deeper meaning, things go on and everyone loses just like real life. The end
Daniel Stevenson Man that would definitely add some significance to the random panacotta QA scene. It’s difficult to interpret the ending for me, but I more so believe the child was real, and her being placed in the prison was intentional by the administration. And the message to send the child up shows the nature of the prison to the chefs at the top, who probably do not know the extent of the prison.
I think this is definitely a good and possible theory, but I think there are other viable explanations and ideas for what happened. What I theorize is that Miharu's kid does exist, and the reason Miharu rides down every month is not to search for her, but to ensure that there is food left for her child, which is why she wasnt starving. The system allows this because they know that if the public knew they were keeping a child in there, the consequences could be very severe for the administration, which is why they opt to keep her hidden away at the bottom floor instead of releasing her. It's possible that not even the chefs know that they are keeping a girl down there, or the conditions below. Most every employee of the system seems to be missing a lot of information, no one seems to know 100% what's going on. Perhaps there will be an internal change when the chefs see her, or maybe nothing happens. Though I suppose one of the best aspects of this movie is how many different ways it could be interpreted...
5:30 when you really think about it there are 2 people each floor and there are 333 floors so when you multiply it by 2 it's 666. I think its a really cool detail
@@princesscolinalivestreams6674 the movie itself told us that there are 2 people each floor so the one with here must've commited suicide like Imoguiri who found out that she's on floor 223 (I think) with Goreng
I sure hope that something good comes in the end but you gotta know that's probably not the case. They straight up disappear that girl. If you build this kind of building with these kinds of devices; especially devices that can detect when your "prisoners" are keeping food, you can probably notice when there is a kid inside. They definitely knew that girl was there, bigwigs probably kept her there too as an experiment and if we assume the kid came after the mother did; then they definitely let the mom in as part of that experiment. (Though chances of the kid coming after the mom was in there for awhile is more likely based on previous scenes.)
Hey MatPat told me to come here, but in reality i've been a fan for a while and love your work, very entertaining. Also make sure to keep your *dongel* safe
Saw that video just yesterday and I decided to scrolled through James old videos to find the video uploaded closest to MatPat's video just to see if most of the comments had Dongle. Your comment is the first I found after scrolling with the setting ok "Too Comments" 🤣. That is cool 👍😊
I always thought it was half underground, which would help to go along with that Divine comedy train of thought, with the top being heaven the middle levels being purgatory and the bottom being hell. 🤷🏻♀️
My Netflix account automatically put English audio over the film and i said oh hell no, changed it to its original European Spanish and put those subs on. We doin this the right way
there's no incorrect way to interpret a film like this. an optimist will say that the girl is found alive and that it sparks change. a pessimist will say that the girl is a hallucination and that the message (of the panna cotta) was misinterpreted (the piece of hair). Or they could interpret it in a whole other way, and it would still be chill. To each their own.
12:30 since it’s probably not possible for a building to be 333 stories high. Here’s my theory. In the movie the administrator says there’s only 200 floors. And maybe, just maybe in the future that’s possible. But my theory is that the other 133 floors are kept a secret from the workers. And that they’re actually built down into the the ground. Hidden unlike the rest of the buildings floors. Especially considering that black void at the bottom.
Edit: Okay I'm going to edit this a bit after reading some comments and rewatching bits of the movie again. I keep standing by my words that I think the choice of "hijo" is an intentional choice to show two things: 1. That Trimagasi doesn't know a thing about Miharu and doesn't really care about it (he uses 'hijo' as a more neutral term, even if "niño" would be a better choice) 2. "Hijo" implies boy, it's the masculine form, so Goren assumes Trimagasi talks about a boy and gets surprised by finding a girl "Hijo" is an intentional choice by the script to condition us to think that it's a boy, like Goren, but in reality is just Trimagasi showing that he doesn't care. Thats why he ends up killed by Miharu, because he doesn't care, not like the main character
@@somenoob2147 I'm from Spain, if you want to be ambiguous about your kid gender you would never say "hijo", that's exclusive for boys. Also at the end both characters get shocked that it's a girl, that implies they never thought it was a girl 🤔
@@somenoob2147 I have to say tho that I think the intention behind this wording is for the audience a the main character to think about a boy and end up finding a girl
lidia M. G. That’s true and I don’t know the differences between Spanish in Spain and Spanish in Mexico but that’s just what I thought and I get your POV
My interpretation of the little girl is that the world pretends to care about children but they so often end up falling through the cracks and being forgotten or ignored, but children are the future so we need to protect them and take better care of them.
Love your analysis, as always. A few of my thoughts (some have already been made, but I was writing along with the podcast): - I don't think it's a building above the ground, but a bunker going underground. This would fit with the Spanish title “The Hole” as well as the reversed numbering system. - The reason for 333 levels I assume is because this adds up to 666 people in total (at least at the beginning of each month). I see you made that point later in the podcast. - The movie also makes a point about how you just get dealt a hand randomly. You are where you are ("born"), and it is very difficult to climb up, especially because the people above you don't want to help you. Going down, however, is easy. - I'm not convinced Miharu got in alone. Imoguiri was lied to about the number of levels, so why not about no children under 16. You kind of touched on this as well, though. - When they go down together, some of the people do accept the fact that they don't get (as much) food, so the civility does work on some of them. - I like the ending. Makes the movie haunt you even more. - The song during the end credits is great. Very creepy.
Children are often symbolic of the future. So, perhaps the message is that this little girl, our future, has survived this ordeal and knows that its inherently fucked up and decides to do something about it. Our future is coming out of "the hole", the system that we've built, and will hopefully rise into something better. Hopefully the people on floor zero see this child--the future--and see how desolate it has become under the care of the current system, and hopefully they decide to do something about it. Is that what the movie is going for? Idk but its a possibility
This is the first time in watching their podcast and I wanna know if Chelsea always talks this much? I love listening it her talk she's so smart and analytical
She does and has episodes where she clearly puts in a lot of time and research into what they're going to be talking about. You should definitely check out more episodes of the podcast.
Watched this last weekend and enjoyed it very much. The ending was a bit abrupt and rushed, but it was still interesting. The message is very applicable to what’s going on right now in grocery stores and pharmacies. If people took just what they need, everyone would have enough.
I think the purpose of the Wise Man is to understand that the connection between old and young. We as young people think older people are wise and know better than we do, and we should listen to them. The fact that his message really served no purpose, but the way they carry out the mission and then realized at the end what a better message would be, speaks to how a "wise" person's words are only a guide, and you have to know how to think for yourself. Older "wiser" people don't know everything and it is up to us to take their words and do something better with it. What use is the stuff that they do know if the world has change from when they were little? (ig: him not knowing about the child = the world changing). Just my thoughts.
"I can't shit upwards" is such a matter-of-fact ridiculous statement but also kind of ties into Chelsea's statement on charity. People can pressure their peers and those below them to donate to a cause, but it's way harder to get those that are better off than them to listen and contribute to improving the system.
My favorite theory that I've seen is that you are rewarded for cannibalism or for killing in the tower. We can see that when Goreng survives with Trimagasi, they drop from level 48 to level 171. After Goreng kills and eats Trimagasi, he rises up to floor 33 with Imoguiri. After they survive together again, they drop down to floor 202. After he eats her body, he rises up to floor 6.
This symbolizes how society rewards selfishness and stepping on others.
I think the panna cotta theory is viable, in that Goreng is definitely dying at the end. On floor 333, he's already dying and drags himself to the platform, but in the bottom floor, he sees Trimagasi's illusion and just gets up and walks away from him. This means that he and Baharut could be imagining the girl, as he wanted to justify Miharu's killing spree after her death. He imagines the girl, hence why the room doesn't turn hot or cold after the Panna Cotta isn't tossed; the room never existed. The panna cotta is what's actually brought back up in the end, where the chef finds it and gets angry at the cooks because he thinks that it wasn't eaten because of the hair.
When interviewed, the director of the movie said that he envisioned floor 333 as not existing and that it was Goreng imagining what he should have done.
I think the administrative lady killed herself when they woke up on level 205 because that's when she realized she'd been lied to about how deep the floors go by the administrators meaning the food would never be enough
She wasn't at the bottom though and she was also sad about her dog.
@@FBIagent22-q1d yes they were, she told him there were only 200 and felt guilty and also upset about her dog, it was bc of both, she knew they would get nothing
If I were told by my higher ups that there's only this many floors and that the people *I personally* am sending into The Platform will be fine, only to find out that they lied to me, the people *are* suffering and that there's more floors than I was told, making me realize just how many people I've doomed into starving to death, being murdered, or becoming cannibals just to survive, I would've done the same thing out of sheer guilt tbh
@@jelliottbeck I honestly don't think any one gets out of there alive. Trim said his roommate got out; I don't believe it.
"I'm not a murderer"
Ok Jigsaw, whatever gets you through the day
It’s amazing how the movie is so immersive that you don’t question how the platform moves or how they move through levels.
ikr... I was so enthralled by the acting and the theme in general that not until ten minutes before the movie ends that I start to wonder, "wait how the fuck is the platform floating down without any pillars or pulley system?"
@Violet - Yeah, that's about the point where I realized it as well.
@@VQuaileggs 8
I assume it’s using a system of electromagnetic and by reducing the amount of electricity they slow it down and vice verca
I... was the same. I only noticed halfway through.
I respect the hell out of james taking a second to make sure he understands what Chelsea's saying before he agrees with her. That kind of integrity, even with your fiance, is a reason why I appreciate your opinion so much.
The guy that decided to bring duffle bag full of beef jerky is probably fist-pumping
Wouldn’t they have to throw it onto the platform on the first day because of the system that stops you from keeping food?
It’s high f’n noon I think it was only food that was originally on the platform
But wouldn't you get sick of beef jerky after a while?
@@GuessImSylvale would you rather eat only beef jerky or literally starve to death?
@@deez581 fair
I'm I the only one that's right away thought "this building is underground"
It's a basement that's goes 333 floors down into the earth.
missvampiresweet I had the thought maybe it was around 100 stories up, and then 200 stories down? But I’m not sure if that would work, structurally.
Don’t they have windows?
@@Tom-yi4kw No, there's no windows maybe except plan 0.
There is windows but I’m mostly positive it’s just lights through the window and they are underground entirely
I thought it's could be a tall building that goes into ground
I don't think that 'the boy' was a translation error, it's more so how rumors spread and the details get lost by passing it around
@Jeremiah Hernandez I mean the cellmates don't stay the same all the time, one person could've told the other person, that person could then exchange that info with the next cellmate they have, and so on.
Nope, the Spanish translation the ENTIRE movie was "hijo" or son in English. They just messed up. Niño is boy
@Lucho Lavalleexactly, and they used "el hijo" which means "the son"
But how was the rumor started? The lady didn't talk. The admin had to have said something because they were the ones that put the child there at the end of each month to see if anyone would feed her.
i think the monthly changes even reflect the month by month situations that a lot of poor people live in. You can be good one month, but then one small slip up leads to a rough next month
The platform is full of everyone's favorite food. If everyone just ate their favorite food then everyone would eat.
Francisco Esquivel ah. True that
I think if 200 people say their favorite food is chicken then chicken may only be included on the platform once. There aren't 666 different foods on there.
I think they have 1 favorite food per day
@@lenisemicolon account for the fact that many people probably named a dish that someone else had already named. so if 50 people do say chicken, that cuts that 666 number to 606 different foods. and so on
@@deg1studios That's what I said.
Spanish is a gendered language but when speaking of “kids” or ‘kid” we use “niños” or “niño” so when someone doesn’t know the gender of a child or there are a group of children of multiple genders one typically uses the masculine term.
Just trying to clear up the confusion 😅
So it's not really "She is looking for her son" but more like " She is looking for her kid" - I'm a bit confused with the translation, thank for clearing up!
Quynh Chi Nguyen yes, Spanish is always translated literally in English even though it’s the wrong way. Another example is slang, the literal translation is not the correct meaning
I don't really agree, I would if he was saying "niño" but he's talking about "hijo" and as a Spaniard I would never use "hijo" to talk about a child I don't know the gender. Also if I remember correctly they are shocked to discover is a girl, so at least I think the main character understands it as the child is a boy
lidia M. G. Oh okay that makes sense , i have never seen the film so I was just using context clues but thanks for letting me know 👍
@@hilariocity__ yea seems like people are just forgetting that whole scene of them being surprised and accepting a make shift "translation error" that isn't actually a error just to make sense of it for themselves. Coincidentally those are the same people that don't accept the idea of the girl being a hallucination
Can’t wait for the kill count on this film
Same
Yeah same. It’s sad that I’ve watched all of the kill counts and am now watching foundflix’s ending explained on this film. It’s really good
People are saying it’s gorey is it really gross like some of the saw traps or something
@@hazzacummings9816 not that gory
Good movie worth the watch!
My interpretation of the ending is that the little girl is always on the bottom level. the higher ups in the administration know she's there and don't want anyone to know that a child is suffering due to their "perfect" system. So the mother rides down to the bottom level each month to make sure she eats. The reason I believe she is always at the bottom is because (as this film is an allegory for capitalism) she represents all the innocent children who are born into this system and are unable to change it themselves, whose parents have to do terrible things just to make sure that their children can survive. They are always either ignored or forgotten about during conversations of "fixing" capitalism. Do children deserve to suffer, starve? Most people say no, but then we have children in schools going into lunch dept because their family can't afford to pay for lunch. And people make all sorts of excuses for why it's the fault of the family for not applying for a free lunch program or making sure that their child has food, instead of questioning the system (as you said earlier in the podcast). The child in this movie wasn't the intended target of the system, but the system itself is why she is in it (allowing inmates to do whatever they want to each other, which allowed her mother to be raped and impregnated).
What do they hope to happen when she is sent to the top? I think it's like you two said, they hope to cause a domino effect that will change the system. Surely people would never allow a system to remain in place that allows innocent children to starve and suffer, something I already stated that the majority of people would agree is not something that should even exist, let alone be tollerated.
What actually happens when she is sent to the top? Well, we already know the answer to that, don't we?
Nice. You articulated this very well.
@@williamkelly5689 since the film only shows the mother going down once a month, then maybe. but since the mother also kills potentially multiple people on her way down and is shown to be okay with eating and feeding other people human flesh, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that she would bring the child a body that could last for at least a few days. I personally think it's a disservice to the film and it's creators to try to take the film too literally, so I honestly haven't given it too much thought as my interpretation is mostly metaphorical
Sooo after the kid gets sent up she'll get sent back down?
I have a family member that works in a middle school cafeteria, she tells me all the time about the smaller groups of kids who appreciate the meals but the majority that get free food only to dump most of it in the trash and get junk food from machines or after school. So sad to see the waste.
BUT THATS JUST A THEORY, A FILM THEORYYYYYY
I was thinking the place was put in the ground that’s why they ended in the void representing a end or hell type place
I mean there's 333 levels and two on each level so not ridiculous
Ya I mean it’s called the hole
A minor critique: While St. Bernard does guide Dante, that is only at the very end of the Paradiso; Virgil guides Dante through Hell and Purgatory, and Beatrice guides Dante through almost all of Heaven.
Also, the very random nature of being moved up and down the prison feels in conflict with the fixed and poetic justice nature of the Divine Comedy; it's a much more nihilistic view of life and morality, up to and including becoming the ubermensch (literally coming from above each other level as he descends), not from a desire to dominate, but in an effort to create morality and in the defense of beauty and art.
(That said, 333 is a traditional holy number in certain Christian mystic schools of thought, as the perfect representation of the triune God, so it's not like that symbolism is *totally* absent, but it's... let's say, of diminished import)
I actually quite liked this. I found the ending underwhelming and it was a little underexplained, but in general it was a good spoopy movie.
I liked the ambiguity to be honest. I know most people aren't fans of this and prefer concrete, definitive endings but in this case I think it was executed fine.
The director edited out a scene of the girl making it to the top so it's safe to say she made it
@@Firegirl483 did she die the little girl
@@apersonthatlikesyoutube5779 No, she woke up on the first floor.
@@Edward-Not-Elric
You mean floor 0?
The play no exit is about Hell and the message ends up being that "people are hell". With 333 floors, there are 666 patients, and they are the reason they are messed up, in the movies eyes. It is also interesting to see the people put so much effort into the food, but they do not see the result, only that no food returns to the top. They dont know how the food is eaten, just that it is gone. Liked this movie a lot, would highly recommend!
It's never been confirmed that there's 666 patients. The last floor has 1 person, so if every other has 2 each that's not 666
And also. It’s never confirmed that there is 333 floors. Director said that Goreng never really went to the bottom
This movie was super good, I was super confused the whole time but it was overall very good and executed the consent well overall.
If you watch it twice it'll make more sense
Concept*
Chelsea totally nailed the messages of the film
Debatable
I think she made a mistake with the panacotta, I think the little girl was imaginary she was clean and healthy on the bottom floor.
Well yeah, obviously it's debatable. Film is an art form so people interpret messages differently. In my opinion, she nailed what I got out of it lol
@@darrenhoughton1515 I don't get it. If the little girl isn't real then what's the actual ending of the film?
ccabral92 what I got from the girl was that everyone forgets about how the children feel when life gets desperate or hard and so this symbolised her left their. Her feelings about the situation were forgotten on the bottom floor. As long as children are fed and clothed we seem to forget about their opinions in times of crisis. I don’t think this was anyone’s particular child I think it is supposed to symbolise all children and the messiah wanting to save them all, but he died for them instead.
15:03 god the cat
He/she's looking right at my soul
Lucy is love, Lucy is life.
@The Red Eye Rabbit Don’t disrespect Lucy
Where did you get that soul and how does someone acquire one? Would you like to sell it to me for two dollars?
That’s a sweet girl named Lucy. Have you met her humans James and Chelsea? 😼
@@BangTanPrettiNikki James and Chelsea don't own Lucy. Lucy owns James and Chelsea.
Interesting that yall assume it's in a building. I imagine that it was underground
yeah and the top was the building and it goes underground like you said
It was in a building underground.
THANK YOU for not shying away from the politics and openly discussing what you honestly thought of the movie and it's messages! Suuuuper tired of people bitching about "being too political", like, dude just go watch Trasnformers for the 17th time if you're not interested in movies having something to say
Also I really liked your conclusions and the social commentary you both extracted from this, really cool to hear your opinions ^^
I felt like this movie's message relates to what everyone is going through at the moment.... If you only ate what you needed, everyone could have food.... Like if everyone only took what they needed the rest of us would have toilet paper, hand sanitizer, tissues, milk, sugar, rice, etc...
Moral of the story.... STOP HOARDING!
Rachael Ward Well it’s deeper than that 🙄
@@artheaux666 What?!?!? Really?!?!?!
It's not like they literally pointed that out? Dont be this slow when trying to act smart... 😒
Thank you, guys, for never shutting the cat out of the room when you record these.
Everyone loves a little Lucy cameo. She's always a treat.
So happy you're covering this movie!! It's the first thing I've watched in a while that really left me with a lot of thoughts & a need to discuss it. I have a lot of thoughts so sorry in advance for this long comment!
I definitely agree with the Divine Comedy comparison! The number 3 has a lot of meaning in general in Christianity, being the number of the Trinity - God, the Son (Jesus), & the Holy Ghost. Also, the first level is 48, & if you use numerology - 4+8 = 12, 1+2 = 3. Level 171 is similar: 1+7+1 = 9, 9/3 = 3 (like level 333 is 3+3+3 = 9; there are also three people on this level - Goreng, Baharat, & the girl). Level 33 - more threes, but 3+3 = 6, which is a number connected to the devil. 202: 2+0+2 = 4, which is the number of death in Japan - but I think it's mostly just to show that there are more than 200 levels. Level 6 - as above, a number connected to the devil but also 6/2 (two people) = 3.
I also feel like the VSMC/the Hole is somewhat "neutral" in that each floor only has meaning when it is assigned by the individuals in the building. It's a capitalist hell when the individuals on the upper floors decide to be selfish, but it can also become a socialist community if everyone agrees to ration the food. The fact that everyone changes floors once per month gives everyone an equal opportunity to thrive/suffer as determined by the greater community. There is no way to stockpile resources (food etc) to maintain the power you have while you're at the top. Everyone has a chance to share one anothers' perspective of life at the top/bottom/middle class.
I definitely see Miharu as a version of Mary, Jesus' mother - her child apparently didn't come into the facility with her, but still appears as a sort of immaculate conception (plus Goreng has a sexual dream about Miharu which connects to this; this would make Goreng the film's representation of Joseph). But on that note, can we actually believe what the characters tell us? eg. Imaguri says she didn't know the truth about the Hole, but is that just a lie she tells to soothe her own guilt? This leads into the idea of unreliable narration - even Goreng's motivations aren't entirely clear. We're left wondering, what is the truth? You become suspicious of everyone else, just like the characters themselves do.
Regarding Imaguri's cancer: this could represent the "evil" or corruption she's been complicit in. She chose to ignore the truth while it festered beneath her, and only allowed herself to see the truth once she could no longer ignore it.
As for the panna cotta - I feel like it's regarded as such an important thing because in the inmates' world, food is the most important/holy thing. But as you said, they realize that feeding the little girl is what's actually important (& if you follow the idea of the immaculate conception, the girl represents Jesus, the incarnation of sacrifice). As well, since people become food in the Hole, the girl herself is essentially just another thing to eat; yet she still returns unscathed - just like their original plan. She hasn't been devoured by the system.
If you've read this far: a) thank you! & b) I cannot believe this ended with you mentioning Passion of the Christ haha! Thanks for the amazing podcast episode! ♥ Can't wait for the next one!
I never thought of this because I'm not religious, but it's a very cool interpretation.
@@pocketkerrie Thank you! I'm not particularly religious, but I'm fascinated with how religion intersects with media/art/popular culture :D
@@pocketkerrie The Gospels, in particular, are pretty important when it comes to an astronomical amount of media, so it's a pretty fun thing to look at if you're into interpreting stuff.
I like your mention of how the VSMC could be neutral, in that it allegorically could be either capitalist or socialist based on the people inside and how they choose to do things because when I was watching it, I clearly saw the link to wealth distribution and the potential and actual greed of capitalists and class, but given the limits of the allegory (no analogy is perfect) it seemed easier and more accurate to simplify the problem in the hole to a learned and systematic distrust and hatred of your cellmate as well as the people above and below you, which comes off as a problem of the culture of the hole or the people's self-preservation instincts kicking in.
That's all I have to add, I hadn't really thought of the child as Jesus, especially since the movie spent all movie telling us that Goreng was The Messiah, and it's good, especially since she replaces the panna cotta as the message and people are plenty good for eating in the hole.
One of the movies that got people arguing because of the ending/plot 😂
27:40 This is actually not the case. It is actually relative poverty that causes aggressive crime. Relative poverty is very different from poverty. Poverty is when everyone does not have enough to eat and survive. Relative poverty is when you don't have enough to eat and your neighbor does or vice versa. The places and communities with the highest Gini coeffecient (most wealth distribution) have the highest crime rates. However places that are in complete penury with a flat wealth distribution have almost no crime at all because everyone is in the same situation. The tower prison in this movie is a perfect example of relative poverty, not poverty. Just something interesting.
The crime was all the people on the top eating with such gluttony as not to leave anything for the others below. Just like real life. We just went through this in 2020 and it was only for something as simple as toilet paper.
@@FBIagent22-q1d "I demonstrate, in the first place, that the state of men without civil society (which state we may properly call the state of nature) is nothing else but a mere war of all against all; and in that war all men have equal right unto all things." -Thomas Hobbes
This is simply the nature of human beings.
@@magic22222222222 I tend to believe that humans are good at hear. Fear is what makes us the worst. Even Goreng turned into a monster and he was kind.
@@FBIagent22-q1d I disagree. I tend to believe that humans are bad, unless they are domesticated by civil society. The only reason Goreng was ever kind, is because society conditioned him to be so. I find your analogy of the platform to toilet paper shortages to be a bit facile.
@@magic22222222222 We can't blame society for how we treat others. It is our responsibility to be good. I do understand why some are not. I got a taste of it during COVID. I think we all did. Even when I didn't want to hoard, I did because I knew if I didn't buy when it was there, I wouldn't have anything. The difference is, I did year with those around me.
I was thinking that the building went into the ground so I thought it was a floor or two high
Yeah, no building can exist at that scale. So the building continues underground. Probably only 20 or 50 floors are above the ground. I can't remember seeing any visible light coming thru any windows in the 100 levels or lower.
"the pit"
I also like that each room has 2 prisoners, meaning there are 666 prisoners in total
Because it was a living hell.
I never get tired of watching Chelsea try to protect poor Lucy's dignity, you guys are lucky Lucy doesn't have snapchat
So, what my theory is: Maharu goes down each month and kills the little girl's cell mate so she can eat that month. Maharu travels down, checks on the little girl, sees which level she's at. If she's at a good level, the little girl's cell mate probably get to live. But if she hasn't been eating that much, or at all, Maharu will kill them so the little girl can eat for the rest of the month. That would make the most sense to me, though I'm not sure what that would by symbolic of
Bringing a living being into that place is a horrifying thing to imagine
I have a theory that the child was planted there as a sort of test by the establishment, that or acts as more a symbolic scenario than something that actually unfolds. by this point both protagonists are delirious and worn out, could easily have been a strange hallucination or fantasy
What I didn't understand is why more people on the lower levels didn't try riding the platform up to the top?
I think it’s because as you go lower, you risk being eaten.
Better to take that risk than to starve to death on the level you're on...
My theory is that, the only way to ride the platform to the top, is to be on it when it starts its upward journey from level 333. Whenever we see the platform rising from the prisoners point of view, it is travelling at breakneck speeds, which would prevent practical boarding. That way, the child could potentially survive the journey from bottom to top. Although, that leaves the problem of deceleration before level 0. I doubt the prisoners residing on level 1 saw a really slow dinner table floating upwards towards an exit every night, and didn't think about jumping on. Thats about as far as I could rationale out (in the fun sort of way).
Update to my own thought lol. Each floor is shown to have independent environmental controls via the pit's ability punish floors with extreme heat/cooling for holding on to food past the allotted feeding time. Its plausible that they could sleep gas the top floors beforehand to guarantee that they wouldn't mess with the returning platform.
The whole concept on the lower 100 or so levels also is super absurd because the system would be extremely unsustainable if virtually all of the people on the lower levels died of starvation every month. I can't imagine a prison can sustain around 300 new prisoners a month knowing they're going to die.
A panna cotta is a gelatin-based custard like dish, made from a creme anglaise usually infused with vanilla or orange or some other flavouring agent. I've been making them for years, they are INCREDIBLE! Serve them with raspberry coulis and fresh berries, and you have the best dessert imaginable!
Reminds me of a quote. “There are all theses stories of so grate hero that sacrifices them self to save the day. And with there sacrifice the survivors all chear and the good guys win. But the hero doesn’t get to see that ending they will never know if there sacrifice really made a difference they will never know if the day was really saved.”
Shit thats deep
i have been LOVING all the extra content lately i am so thankful for you two!! as a quarantine request, i am BEGGING that you do a discussion about The Lodge bc I ended up seeing that movie instead of the Invisible Man when the theaters were open and it was actually a lot of fun and very dark and I just love listening to you two talk!! if you’re able to that would make my life :’)
i love these podcasts since they help nudge me towards watching a movie i would otherwise ignore or be hesitant to watch
For future reference, Panna Cotta is Double Cream (that's Heavy Cream for Yanks) barely set with a little gelatine.
The one in the film, like much of the food oddly, looks somewhat old fashioned and appears to be heavily set. This film is reminiscent of The Menu in that perfectionism is flawed and has a dark side.
The movie gave me cube vibes
and I LOVE IT
I am planning on watching it later, but when I saw the poster and heard the start of the podcast I thought "I'm feeling some very big Cube vibes here"
@@forceoffriction Yeah! there should be more films that give that unease like cube and platform
Crazy Man I would love it if Dead Meat covered the Cube series in their kill count.
Random Name Oh yeah! That would be so cool, but then again the second film is kinda garbo
Crazy Man True, but at least Cube Zero has some kills worthy of discussion.
Every time they say "Pannacotta" I just think of that freaking JoJo character.
My theory about the ending is that the girl didn't exist because everything about a child being there makes no sense at all in this story unless you take in account she could be another hallucination. there are multiple reasons to think this. First of Miharu never actually talked to anyone, even the one showing kindness towards her so the whole thing about her son/kid could easily be made up my inmates to explain her going down. The girl itself is way to well-fed for someone that has been living on 333, the child being in there makes no sense at all because why would a child be in the facility to begin with? Miharu still came in alone, many people discredit the women her words because she got some information like the platform wrong but that's simply because she was told that. With Miharu she personally handled her case and file so she knew everything about Mihura since she had gained that information herself and wasn't just told that, hence why that information can be trusted. Furthermore both of them lost a lot of blood when getting down there so hallucinations would be common, during the whole last part our protagonist was limping but in the end he was walking straight so he was prob already dead at that point even hallucinating the whole scene with the child eating the dessert. The message was still the dessert and the dessert is what got send up. When the old man was checking it for a hair in the middle of the movie it's because they thought that was the reason nobody ate it. Missing the message of the dessert completely, standing in for how the wealthy of our society will never be able to understand the poor and why they do things.
This is a solid theory. I was wondering how the significance of the hair fit in. I knew it meant that they would misunderstand the message, showing the futility of their struggle.
OMFG so thats what he was pissed off about. Then clearly yeah that would be what he assumed. Omg that makes the conclusion depressing asf
Wh-what? The girl was raped and had a baby, isn’t it just that?
BrothersPingouin that little girl wasn’t a baby and people aren’t in there for longer than 6 months
@@ztlabraptor211 I thought the main protagonist was supposed to be there for a year
I just graduated with degrees in sociology and criminology and I just really appreciate your analysis and rationale of the characters. Being trapped in poverty absolutely causes the worst types of things, you guys nailed it.
This movie was exactly like parasite in a different manor. The trailers are made differently, but once you find the symbolism, you’ll understand everything.
Where did you get the connection? I can't connect them in anyway.
I can agree but from a film making perspective parasite is so much further above it
@@shipmancinema Quite literally too
Lots of movies are about class, I don't know if they have anything in common besides that. Parasite is subtler too.
The scene with the apple, where the room gets cold and he has to throw the apple down. I thought that might have been a commentary on how people have to live day to day. There isn't enough to save for later. Living pay check to pay check etc, etc.
It gets hot not cold
The movie was actually WAY less political than I thought it would be; I was worried it'd pivot into a pretentious preachy completely misinformed piece of shit that beats you over the head about the evils of capitalism. Instead, it was a fun movie with an interesting premise and light messaging not just about politics but human nature as well. I mean obviously it was pro-socialism in its messaging but it was also actually willing to critique it as well (which makes sense given Spain's past struggles with fascist socialist dictators). Ending was a little abrupt but overall I very much enjoyed it.
Yea the problem a contrived scenario like this is that it doesn't account for the creation of wealth and resources we see in the real world. People on Earth live better now than humanity ever has in the past. World poverty and health standards are the highest they have ever been compared to hundreds or thousands of years ago. Wealth and technology are not finite - they can grow. They are no infinite either, but spread over time we extract a higher standard of living than our ancestors. Technology and free, open markets are key.
And there is no way to move up the tower through your actions as it's all random who goes where. Reality is not so limited - there are huge parts of life that are random and unfair, but people do have the ability to move higher by making wise choices, an move lower by making poor ones. I make more, and live better, than my parents, who live better and are better educated their parents etc. Under capitalism some have the option to become vastly wealthy even if starting from a low social strata. My aunt is a very rich doctor who ran her own business, yet her parents were poor uneducated ranchers. Most will not become ultra-wealthy of course, but rapid and vast improvements happen all the time in an open economy. These sorts of things are not accounted for in such a contrived premise the film represents. And as such, I'm glad the politics were less heavy handed than I feared.
The strongest part of the film for me was seeing how people react to such a hostile environment. It brought out the worst of people generally, but some were still able to hold onto their sanity, dignity, and compassion. The point of the film was less about capitalism vs collectivism, but how people's basic nature of greed and violence and gluttony makes neither approach fully successful. If everyone simply ate only what they needed, the entire problem would be solved, but as the film explicitly points out, humans tend to do the opposite. But not all societies and cultures degenerate like that. There are numerous examples in the real world of social accountability and responsibility being a major driver of group behavior.
I think the ending was perfect - open to interpretation and didn't hold our hands and try to explain away everything. A very similar film to this, with an equally vague (some would say frustrating) is Cube. If you haven't seen it you might check it out. The original is good, but skip the sequels.
Pro socialism? Life in the hole is literally life under socialism.
About the gender confusion at roughly 25:00: Yes, Spanish is a gendered language, but the male gendered words are the default (as in many other languages), so you'd usually use the same word for "kid/child" (of unknown gender) as you would for son. It's not unreasonable that Spanish Hannibal Lecter wouldn't actually know the child's gender, having probably heard this stuff second/third/fourth-hand. But that could still explain Gorang's confusion when discovered it was a girl. It wouldn't have been unreasonable for him to assume the child was a son if the same word is used for both.
Incidentally, in the dubbed version that my Netflix defaulted to, they do say child the whole time, not son.
So I don't know if this is a problem with the subtitles or not, but what the wise man says is to offer dialogue first and if that fails then you use violence, not that violence shouldn't be used at all.
202 is Month 4 btw, you got that wrong. Month 1 was level 48, Month 2 was 171, where Trimagasi tied him up, Month 3 was level 33 with Imoguiri, Month 4 was level 202 with Imoguiri again, then it was Month 5, level 6 with Baharat. Considering Goreng said he only asked for a 6 month sentence, he was so close to escaping and telling the world.
Okay, I‘m really confused now but am I the only one that heard the women who used to work for the facility say that she interviewed the „mother“ 10 month ago? Which would mean that she could have only been in there for 15 month tops so the child couldn‘t be this old yet. I actually rewatched the scene in english, german and spanish and though my spanish isn‘t the best I‘m pretty sure she said the 10 month thing in all of the versions. That‘s why I believe the Pannacotta-theory to be true...
Apparently there’s a deleted scene where the girl wakes up at the top floor.
We thought the lady had lied or was tricked and she was. The admin was the one that put the child in the building at the end of each month to see if anyone would feed her. The two men fed her the panna cotta and sent her back up.
@@ericmariscal428 Why they would've done that is beyond me.
I love Franz Kafka's The Metamorphosis. It's about this dude who lives with his parents and sister in this rinky dink appartment- they have a maid too. So the guy works and basically all he does is work to support his family and their basic needs. One day he turned into a giant roach and his family eventually just keeps him in his room. They try to act normal at first but they can't help feeling revolted about what he has become. One day he just up and dies, the maid tosses his body in the trash, the family sells the apartment and leaves town. At this point they feel relieved that the guy is dead and no longer a burden to them.
You two are the only things keeping me alive,
Spanish is gendered but the gender-neutral forms of words are usually masculine by default. So hija is specifically daughter, but hijo means either son or gender-nonspecific child.
*also, eating something your body can’t use like paper or cotton is an unfortunate trick used by people who are starving to lessen the hunger pains by tricking your stomach into thinking it’s full. It won’t help to actually feed you but it makes the hunger hurt less.
**YASS Passion through a horror lens, holy crap I cannot wait to hear you guys talk about that movie!!! Ignore the nay-sayers if there are any, PLEASE I got so excited when you first mentioned it and would love that episode to exist!
Damn Chelsea went off 💜💜🙋🏽♀️
Yo dude I’ve been a fan of you and Matpat for forever and it’s so dongling awesome you guys did a collab!
ya know I followed this channel for James but i’m kinda here for Chelsea, you’re doing great sweetie 💅🏻
i would absolutely love to see this as the original stage performance it was going to be before it got adapted for film! it sounds like such an interesting challenge
I think I read somewhere that the director said he’s actually really dead by the time the platform reaches 333 and it’s all fake
Dessert fact: Panna Cotta is an Italian gelatinized based heavy cream treat. It's normally just heavy cream, gelatin, and sugar, with whatever extra flavors you'd like to add (espresso, vanilla, and chocolate are the most common)
Maybe she says boy to hide the fact that there's a young girl in a correctional facility? I haven't seen the movie yet so I don't know the full context but maybe that's why....
Edit: especially if she herself was rape
Blue Raine i know i'm late lol but i personally don't think that. I think it was either a Mistranslation or a representation of how things are lost after being told so many times.
I'm a lifelong horror fan that just recently discovered Dead Meat. You two introduced me to my two new favorite horror movies, Tales from the Hood and The Platform! Both movies have great spooks and important messages best conveyed via horror. I love your podcast and appreciate both of your insights. Looking forward to checking out His House!
Im thinking the people who control the system know about the child and keep her on the bottom floor, or the mother put her there and feeds her kinda like you guys touched on, or the last thing which is the sickest if she was born there she wouldn't act like a normal child so maybe she got put on a floor or something to get her into a situation where she needed to escape so she found a safe place and ate whatever she could to still look healthy?? just my ideas im a huge fan of yall and i was so happy you guys covered this in a podcast but low key a kill count would be fun but maybe not worth the time.
She most likely ate the bodies that fell, and her mom was going down every month to kill the cell mate
but if maharu went to the bottom cell, she would have to come back to level 0 every time
LOL! Chelsea at 9.15 is me just working from home and on a phone call
James I’m such a big fan of you u help me get threw a lot thank you keep up all the good work
Y’know, I am now watching this, but it is so cute how they look at each other and smile so cute
Yesssss so happy to hear your guys’ take on this! X
Those guys in the pool are my favourite
Two dudes chilling in a hot tub not 5 feet apart because there criminally insane
Matpat sent me to give James a message...stop stealing his dongle
don quijote is more symbolic than it seems (i guess it's more obvious to spaniards because we study it thoroughly) but aside of the literal comparisons between both story and character arc, don quijote is also the book that illustrates the change between romanticism and realism in spanish literature and i think they mean it like superficial activism VS actually changing things, between other things (also don quijote is not handsome, he's an old man on the verge of death that is delusional about the world, everyone mocks him and ends up dying alone and not finding the woman of his dreams -because he made her up)
James, being a subscriber for you and MatPat for a few years now, I will personally admit that I have no bias between the two of you. Both channels never exceed to amaze me and the content you are willing to produce for your fans never ceases to put a smile on my face. However, as painful as it is, there is one issue with you that I need to address.
For the love of God, please stop stealing MatPat's dongle.
You're starting to scare all of us now James. Please, do what's right and seek help for your dongle addiction. Together, we can get through this bud.
I ain’t gonna lie, they had us in the first half.
i was watching this on my tv and at around 17:00 my cat got close to the tv and started meowing bc of Lucy and then went around the tv to look for her.
At the end wouldn’t she just get slammed into the ceiling from how fast the platform is moving
It slows down towards the top
I read a theory that theres a larger gap between level 1 and level 0 so that the platform can slow as it reaches the top
I mean it has to stop or it just crashes in the roof right?
@@Firegirl483 I think this has to be true. We see the dishwashers cleaning the dishes that have been sent back to the kitchen empty. Otherwise when the platform reached the top the whole room would be filled with flying shards of shattered glass, ceramic, porcelain, etc., and they'd have to buy new flatware each time.
I would imagine it would slow down. The same would happen to the dishes and they appear to always be intact. I wonder why they weren't given any cutlery? They had to eat like animals.
I just watched this the other night and was going to recommend that you two dedicate a podcast to this movie. Not to my surprise ...you guys were already on point! Thank you 🙏
The girl at the end is imagined by Goering, he's already been dealing with hallucinations throughout the film and just wants to believe that miharu was looking for her child rather than being insane because she saved him (hence the reason the child is a girl despite being referred to as a boy earlier on goering doesnt remember the childs gender as told to him by trimigasi so his head fills in the blanks) the platform doesnt stay on floor 333 for the full time because there actually isnt anyone on it, lets be honest an 8 year old child wouldnt survive in 'the platform' its entire life. in reality goering sends the panacotta back up (thinking its the girl), it gets rejected by the out of touch 1% for having a hair on it in that now "out of sequence" shot from earlier in the film. there is no deeper meaning, things go on and everyone loses just like real life. The end
Daniel Stevenson Man that would definitely add some significance to the random panacotta QA scene. It’s difficult to interpret the ending for me, but I more so believe the child was real, and her being placed in the prison was intentional by the administration. And the message to send the child up shows the nature of the prison to the chefs at the top, who probably do not know the extent of the prison.
I think this is definitely a good and possible theory, but I think there are other viable explanations and ideas for what happened. What I theorize is that Miharu's kid does exist, and the reason Miharu rides down every month is not to search for her, but to ensure that there is food left for her child, which is why she wasnt starving. The system allows this because they know that if the public knew they were keeping a child in there, the consequences could be very severe for the administration, which is why they opt to keep her hidden away at the bottom floor instead of releasing her. It's possible that not even the chefs know that they are keeping a girl down there, or the conditions below. Most every employee of the system seems to be missing a lot of information, no one seems to know 100% what's going on. Perhaps there will be an internal change when the chefs see her, or maybe nothing happens.
Though I suppose one of the best aspects of this movie is how many different ways it could be interpreted...
HANDS DOWN ONE OF THE BEST MOVIES IVE SEEN THIS QUARANTINE
I literally just watched this movie yesterday
I'm SO GLAD you guys did The Platform. It's a great film.
5:30 when you really think about it there are 2 people each floor and there are 333 floors so when you multiply it by 2 it's 666. I think its a really cool detail
there was only one girl on floor 333. So 665
@@princesscolinalivestreams6674 the person with her might have thought it was immoral to eat her and just killed themself
@@princesscolinalivestreams6674 the movie itself told us that there are 2 people each floor so the one with here must've commited suicide like Imoguiri who found out that she's on floor 223 (I think) with Goreng
Pickle Rick 69 We were also told that no humans under 16 were allowed in. Anything is possible.
@@princesscolinalivestreams6674 fair enough xd
I sure hope that something good comes in the end but you gotta know that's probably not the case. They straight up disappear that girl. If you build this kind of building with these kinds of devices; especially devices that can detect when your "prisoners" are keeping food, you can probably notice when there is a kid inside. They definitely knew that girl was there, bigwigs probably kept her there too as an experiment and if we assume the kid came after the mother did; then they definitely let the mom in as part of that experiment. (Though chances of the kid coming after the mom was in there for awhile is more likely based on previous scenes.)
Hey MatPat told me to come here, but in reality i've been a fan for a while and love your work, very entertaining. Also make sure to keep your *dongel* safe
Saw that video just yesterday and I decided to scrolled through James old videos to find the video uploaded closest to MatPat's video just to see if most of the comments had Dongle. Your comment is the first I found after scrolling with the setting ok "Too Comments" 🤣. That is cool 👍😊
I always thought it was half underground, which would help to go along with that Divine comedy train of thought, with the top being heaven the middle levels being purgatory and the bottom being hell. 🤷🏻♀️
My Netflix account automatically put English audio over the film and i said oh hell no, changed it to its original European Spanish and put those subs on. We doin this the right way
James calling him Tiramisu all episode is golden 🤣
Came over from Film Theory! Gotta say, Freddy Krugerbears pizza is quite yummy with some dongles on top~ 🍕😂
Welcome to freddys bitch
Questionair: whats your favourourate food
Me: several whole buffaes
there's no incorrect way to interpret a film like this. an optimist will say that the girl is found alive and that it sparks change. a pessimist will say that the girl is a hallucination and that the message (of the panna cotta) was misinterpreted (the piece of hair). Or they could interpret it in a whole other way, and it would still be chill. To each their own.
Panna cotta is a gelatinous cream dessert - my favourite! Just had to correct that bit, its not cheese 😂
I wonder how the people on floor 0 would think if all the food came back because there were no prisoners alive
12:30 since it’s probably not possible for a building to be 333 stories high. Here’s my theory.
In the movie the administrator says there’s only 200 floors. And maybe, just maybe in the future that’s possible. But my theory is that the other 133 floors are kept a secret from the workers. And that they’re actually built down into the the ground. Hidden unlike the rest of the buildings floors. Especially considering that black void at the bottom.
I mean from the beginning I just assumed the whole thing was dug underground. One story kitchen with large basement.
Edit: Okay I'm going to edit this a bit after reading some comments and rewatching bits of the movie again. I keep standing by my words that I think the choice of "hijo" is an intentional choice to show two things:
1. That Trimagasi doesn't know a thing about Miharu and doesn't really care about it (he uses 'hijo' as a more neutral term, even if "niño" would be a better choice)
2. "Hijo" implies boy, it's the masculine form, so Goren assumes Trimagasi talks about a boy and gets surprised by finding a girl
"Hijo" is an intentional choice by the script to condition us to think that it's a boy, like Goren, but in reality is just Trimagasi showing that he doesn't care. Thats why he ends up killed by Miharu, because he doesn't care, not like the main character
I speak a little bit of it.
No I’m Mexican when you say kid you say niño because that’s the standard for kid if it’s a boy it’s also niño that’s why there’s so much confusion
@@somenoob2147 I'm from Spain, if you want to be ambiguous about your kid gender you would never say "hijo", that's exclusive for boys. Also at the end both characters get shocked that it's a girl, that implies they never thought it was a girl 🤔
@@somenoob2147 I have to say tho that I think the intention behind this wording is for the audience a the main character to think about a boy and end up finding a girl
lidia M. G. That’s true and I don’t know the differences between Spanish in Spain and Spanish in Mexico but that’s just what I thought and I get your POV
My interpretation of the little girl is that the world pretends to care about children but they so often end up falling through the cracks and being forgotten or ignored, but children are the future so we need to protect them and take better care of them.
DONGLE from MatPat
Love your analysis, as always.
A few of my thoughts (some have already been made, but I was writing along with the podcast):
- I don't think it's a building above the ground, but a bunker going underground. This would fit with the Spanish title “The Hole” as well as the reversed numbering system.
- The reason for 333 levels I assume is because this adds up to 666 people in total (at least at the beginning of each month). I see you made that point later in the podcast.
- The movie also makes a point about how you just get dealt a hand randomly. You are where you are ("born"), and it is very difficult to climb up, especially because the people above you don't want to help you. Going down, however, is easy.
- I'm not convinced Miharu got in alone. Imoguiri was lied to about the number of levels, so why not about no children under 16. You kind of touched on this as well, though.
- When they go down together, some of the people do accept the fact that they don't get (as much) food, so the civility does work on some of them.
- I like the ending. Makes the movie haunt you even more.
- The song during the end credits is great. Very creepy.
Mat pat said to stop touching his dongle because he isn't comfortable with that
Children are often symbolic of the future. So, perhaps the message is that this little girl, our future, has survived this ordeal and knows that its inherently fucked up and decides to do something about it. Our future is coming out of "the hole", the system that we've built, and will hopefully rise into something better. Hopefully the people on floor zero see this child--the future--and see how desolate it has become under the care of the current system, and hopefully they decide to do something about it. Is that what the movie is going for? Idk but its a possibility
This is the first time in watching their podcast and I wanna know if Chelsea always talks this much? I love listening it her talk she's so smart and analytical
She does and has episodes where she clearly puts in a lot of time and research into what they're going to be talking about. You should definitely check out more episodes of the podcast.
Today is the third anniversary of your channel. HAPPY 3RD ANNIVERSARY DEAD MEAT!!!!
Watched this last weekend and enjoyed it very much. The ending was a bit abrupt and rushed, but it was still interesting. The message is very applicable to what’s going on right now in grocery stores and pharmacies. If people took just what they need, everyone would have enough.
I think the purpose of the Wise Man is to understand that the connection between old and young. We as young people think older people are wise and know better than we do, and we should listen to them. The fact that his message really served no purpose, but the way they carry out the mission and then realized at the end what a better message would be, speaks to how a "wise" person's words are only a guide, and you have to know how to think for yourself. Older "wiser" people don't know everything and it is up to us to take their words and do something better with it. What use is the stuff that they do know if the world has change from when they were little? (ig: him not knowing about the child = the world changing). Just my thoughts.