How to compare Leslie speaker models
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2020
- Today we are comparing 4 Leslie speakers side by side - the Leslie 122, 142, 147, and 145. Additionally, be sure to stay tuned to see the internal components of a brand new 147 power amp!
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Good simple video explaining the basic differences between the 147 and 122. Another difference between the 147 and 122 are the signal input and motor switching. The 147 is done by switching 120 volts to the relay coil via the 1/2 moon switch, and the signal input is unbalanced. The 122 on the other hand has a balanced signal input (which most Hammond preamps have) and the motor switching is done through the audio input via a second 12AX7 tube which one 1/2 of the dual triode is used. Other than that, all motors and drivers are the same. :) Most of the earlier Hammond models prior to the B2/C2 get the B+ for the organ preamp from the Leslie or Hammond tone cabinet. Just like the B3/C3, every Leslie speaker has it's own unique sound and character. That's another thing that makes up the sound of a particular Leslie, as well as the tubes that you mentioned. This is just a little comment for the tech minded viewers :) Keep up the good work. Stay safe and God bless.
Thank you Frank for this detailed additional technical input! Well said! If you are ever in Florida please stop by for a visit so we can meet you and get to know you. Meanwhile, please continue to comment and add to these discussions. Your deeper technical details are very much appreciated. Please stay tuned
Yes, and maybe most important to the sound, is the fact that a 122 has a low impedance connection, the same in principle as an XLR cabled mic, as opposed to the more universal high impedance 147, the latter actually being capable of using speaker outputs as an input.
Thanks for the information, Jim.
Thanks, Jim, for this informative video.
I've had my 142 for many many years, initially hooked up to an old Hammond PortaB, and for the last decade to my '61 chopped B3... I've restored and modified both and fitted them in roadworthy cases for easier transport.
Absolutely sounds amazing whatever style you play - from the tiniest jazzy fluttery whisper to a Jon Lord-style roar.
Thanks for sharing!
Paul Reid, Chi-Town
Analogger... (Well..as much as one can be:-).
If you have a mid-60s B,C,or A, or M3, I probably boxed it, as I was going to Lane Tech close by....
SO TODAY...
I came across this YT vid by accident, and was SO impressed with the quality of the Leslie presentation, I Just had to call... And,
Was lucky enough to have Jim came on the line himself as he heard his tech talking with me.
What an affable and knowledgeable man he...
Generously shared some Secret Sauce with me to solve a mismatch output
problem on a pair of 122s.
In The Day, getting info
like that with Hammond dealer was kind of like trying to get a tip on tweaking my bike at the Western ave Triumph dealer. (Bring it in kid, make sure ya got $$)
I Think, if you were a young "musician" (not a church$$) many dealers were just dismissive cuz they thought you were wasting their time. AND
many were still pissed off that Lauren would NOT,
by contract, allow his dealers to sell Don Leslie's New rotating speaker contraption!
(No No!PR40!!) think guitar slingers have attitudes? Try Lauren Hammond's ego.. Must Invent! Mine Mine Mine!)
But I digress (if you were there at the time you would too, what a day for post-war inventors, innovators & companies in Chi! AND North a few hours.. (in his spare time, between gigs with Mary)
Les Paul is Creating Guitars from 2x4s! Winding&Rewinding,
pickups to perfection,
Humbuckers...mmm.
AND a virtual Secret
8 TRACK RECORDING!
(Beatle's Albums
were on 4 tracks, mixers had Knobs. Sliders? Sure, White Castle.. Hungry?)
Sorry, I can go on and I.
Guess ya had to be there!
(U younger guys: Real Pros Need to know whose shoulders they're standing on.. And between Google and TH-cam OMG! It's WAY Too EZ. TH-cam
Tommy Dowd, & Google Don Leslie.
SO
Today, I came across this video by on the off chance that YT might have something on
some Leslie Tech info.
have started to really bug me, now that I'm home so much.
I really didn't expect anything from YT as far as comparing drivers possible caps and some other things, I just needed ideas for the moment.
I really like Jim's presentation, and in the process realized I had done business with keyboard exchange some 25 years ago. Just modification stuff, spring reverb (I know but I like spring reverb) and a cool mod that let me combine a 122 and a 257 (lowboy with 187 amp, had a gorgeous'60s retro cabinet with the cane front, my wife was okay with that. I didn't know that you could combine the two, but with the help of the tech or maybe even Jim ...I don't remember.
They were so helpful, and there's no shortage of places in Chicago metro that I can get parts.. but the tech or Jim or whoever was so helpful
Even way back then, that I bought that stuff and probably some tubes, and got a lot of advice and a couple tips for a few mods that I hadn't thought of. Must remember that 25 plus years ago was not the age of Amazon and ordering online for this kind of stuff we had repair shops here I ran one and a sound company as well but we were not working on Hammond's & Leslies
at our place, though I know my way around tube electronics, modifying many Fenders, Ampeg (blown up SVTs!) I'm a definite tube guy.
But
With the sound company, we did have one Hammond dealer that had a stashed B3 and 122 that we would rent as needed. Kept it in the back and covered up I think.
Funny.. when things got easier, they were cutting down B3s and many M3s
Thank you Paul! I recall speaking with you and appreciate your comments and reflections here on YT. Sorry I did not respond sooner to your comment. Please stay posted and feel free to comment as often as you might like. More information at: www.keyboardexchange.com
Took a 122 and a 147 on the road.. when not in use with the B. I played guitar through it! ;)
I would like to know also about the wiring of the spring reverb used in leslie models, if its wired before the leslie or after the leslie signal, there is a lot of confusion around the internet about that, and you are the experts to answer that! Great video!
I have acquired a hammond x77 with its leslie speaker. the bottom speaker has a motor that spins the speaker and it works. but there is another pully with its own belt right next to it that someone just pushed to the side i cant figure out what it does since the bottom speaker is spinning. the speaker spins all the time kind of fast so that another issue any idea what that second pulley is for. it has nothing to do with the horns on top they are working with the top motor thanks great site learning a lot here
Great information Jim on the difference between the 122 and 147 Leslie. Are there any other differences between R, RV and Leslie 251 besides the reverb speaker in the middle?
The R/RVs have a separate amplifier designated for a channel driving a single speaker for reverb (the R was a designation for the older single speed models & RV for the dual speed), while the 50C/51C/251/351, which was originally designed for use with the string voices (?) of Conn organs, has a more general purpose second channel with two speakers that can be wired for the reverb channel of Hammond A-100s.
@@dare2win215 thanks for the information. I figured the R model Leslie's had to deal with the older model Hammonds. When I see the A100 organs down here in Little Rock and surrounding areas, I see the Leslie 122A. I think one used the 251 Leslie
I have seen Organs with two 122 Leslie’s attached does having an extra Leslie matter in the sound or does it even make a difference having the two?
This is an excellent question! Having a second Leslie is a wonderful option and a bit of a luxury. In some situations, it might be considered almost to be a necessity but there are other ways to distribute the sound that are just as good. Miking one Leslie properly can allow for use in the largest of locations. The best thing about having two Leslies in an average size sanctuary or other large space is that the sound is everywhere rather than coming from a location that your ears can identify. It is not exactly surround sound but similar if that helps to explain how I see and hear it. Another advantage of having two Leslies is that the second acts as a backup in case one fails which is rare but sometimes happens. You almost have to hear it to fully understand......and then...there is the POWER!
Is it true that the 122 family of Leslies have a DC motor drive, while the 147 family of Leslies have an AC motor drive?
And that playing an organ set for DC through an AC Leslie, or visa versa, is dangerous to the equipment?
Thanks, great video! Can you tell me please, which Leslie model is best for use with Hammond L 100 spinet organ?
I would suggest a Leslie 145 or 147 which both have the same internal parts but the 145 is 10 inches shorter. The interesting thing is that when the 145 was built, the model on the back read 145 to let the world know if was shorter and different than the 147. However on all 145 Leslies coming out of the new box....had a 147 power amp. There was no reason for a different model on the amp. The cabinet size was the only difference. Original Leslie matching guides also suggest the 145 or 147 for the L-100 series but there are other options. It may be difficult to find a vintage 145 or 147. Good luck! Now here is another thought for you....Buy a B3 from Keyboard Exchange International including a 147 Leslie. Then have your L-100 wired for a 147 and swap the Leslie back and fourth depending on your mood and desired sound you prefer on any given day. The L-100 is very basic but a great place to start out in the Hammond world as it will lead you to the B3 in my opinion. keyboardexchange.com will have additional thoughts for your consideration
@@KeyboardExchange thank you very much for advice and quick response! Yeah, B3 or C3 is my ultimate goal! You are right about L100 but I am certainly a newbie in Hammond world...I will think about your suggestions for sure! Thank you again and keep up with good content 😊
When i was about 8, i had already become obsessed with early rock music and all the unique sounds... the strange idea that people had to overdrive and distort guitars and organs... I can honestly say... I got a guitar for my seventh birthday... A cheapy electric Japanese Tiesco... But I kind of hated it... Till I brought it over to a neighbor kid's house who had a distortion pedal... He plugged it into that and I realized that was the sound I liked! And i'm not sure why it was such a primal thing, but of course, music sounded like that at the time... At some point people just said. Hey, let's just try to actually distort this and see if it sounds better.! I think that goes back to a song by marty robbins... And I believe it was the late fifties early sixties... It was a Nashville session with the top producers, players, and Engineers.... And somebody goofed up.... Because there was supposed to be some kind of bass guitar solo in the song... And probably an engineer said to himself or somebody else... If we want to hear that solo on an AM radio, we're going to have to crank up the gain, and force out some mid's and highs... Or it'll be the invisible solo on those six by nine speakers... And when they got to the solo section, the high gain Was added and what came through was a massively fuzz out bass...
But back then, I asked my dad. What is that sound that is changing here? I remember it was a song by the box tops... And he said oh that's a Hammond organ! And I said I know that.... What's the sound that I hear moving in here? And he said oh that's the sound of the leslie! And I must have asked him a 1000 questions about the Leslie. Because to me, it sounded like the most amazing thing ever made.. And strangely enough back then just before the era of computers... There were really no pictures to be found of leslie cabinets anywhere! I asked him over and over so I could recognize when I found one... But trying to describe that was a little bit difficult. But for years I searched and I eventually found some... And then more of them... And I became obsessive and learned everything I could about them. And now I've service Hammonds and Leslie's all over the St. Louis area... I had years of electronics training... But I never really used it until I got really into the select chronics of the audio circuits... And the Leslie was the one that led me in there . Now I can fix about any amplifier I come across... And I do that every week as well as tape machines echo plexes... All manner of crazy analog madness... But I went down the rabbit hole of hammonds and leslie's first.
I would want one that has the sound of John Lennon, George Harrison and Eric Clapton. I believe that is the Leslie 147 RV.
Hi Jim! Im your subscriber here in the Philippines.. I have D-152 here, run motor is not working, no available parts here, can u please help me were to find and a good technician as well, thanks and more power to your channel!
You may not be able to find a Hammond tech but should be able to find an electronics tech with general information about electronics. Some questions for you before we switch over to email,,,1) When was the last time you added Hammond organ oil? 2) Your run motor may be OK so it is important to trouble shoot your situation. First..proper lubracation.... 3) You could have a bad run switch........In conclusion for the moment,,,,find an electronics tech for general electronics who may not be a Hammond expert but will know how to trouble shoot the matter with our input. As in most issues in life, we need to gather a team of people around us to fix our issues. There is nothing on your Hammond that can not be fixed once you have a team of people to contact PLUS you should learn some basics yourself. My email is B3buyer@aol.com That is a more direct way to reach me and for me to respond generally www.keyboardexchange.com Thanks for subscribing !
@@KeyboardExchange Thanks a lot Jim, God bless!
Interesting to see 715P polypropylene orange drop caps in the amp. Those have a stiff, more sterile tone compared to the more vintage types
would be interesting to do a blind listening comparison.
@@sandybeansconqueso as long as the outer foil shielding is consistent, and the soldering method is the same, you can easily hear the difference between 715P and others.
Who is the organist playing in the background music? & do you have link where we can hear the video of him/her playing the music in the background?
Check out our video titled " Having Way Too Much Fun" with Randolph Carter and Kyrique Stokes. That day with Kyrique visiting our store I asked these two great musicians to jam and have fun starting with funky effects to their heart's content. Thus a spontaneous jam occurred with complete artist liberties invited and encouraged using a well-known song as a backdrop. Check it out and let us know what you think.
th-cam.com/video/NtzacQS99SE/w-d-xo.html This may be the link you have asked for PLUS there was another similar video made that same day you should check out. One was titled "Having Way Too Much Fun" and the other was "Having Too Much Fun". I think you will find both worth your time to check out. Let us know what you think and if you want to use clips in your work we would love to hear what you do with them!
@@KeyboardExchange ok thanks alot
What about a leslie 251 21h 22h 31a 31h
Excellent question! We are very aware of these models and also have learned that these models you mention are a bit more rare and therefore not always easy to find technicians who are experienced to work on them. Our policy is to try our best to standardize the organ/Leslie packages that we sell to make it easier to make ongoing repairs in the future. Doing this standardization allows us to simply replace a complete power amp in the field rather than trouble shoot a problem which we find more practical to do on the bench in our electronics shop. This practical approach will continue as we move forward as it helps us to provide long term warranty for our customers. Keep in mind that qualified technicians are getting harder to find all over the world. If you have a great technician make sure you treat him or her right. These craftsman/technical experts are a national treasure who deserve our respect and appreciation. We prefer to sell off Leslie 31H, 32H to people who understand them. They can sound GREAT when properly restored that is for certain.......I personally love the way they sound but they are not practical when it comes to quick repairs........
The Leslie 31H, 21H, and the model 30A, (30A's are rare as hen's teeth) are slightly different animals. Except for the later production 31H which uses the same installation kit as a 122, the 30A and early 31H Leslies don't have the capability of remote motor control from the organ console. (All three are single speed models). There are 2 toggle switches on the side of the cabinet (30A, early 31H)...one for the upper rotor, and one for the lower rotor. The model 30 has upper horns which are made of paper machet. as opposed to Bakelite which came in when the 31 series was introduced. 30A, 31H and 21H uses a field coil speaker for the bass, which in my opinion has a heavier and more thunderous response. The horn driver in those 2 models are permanent magnet drivers whereas the 30A also had a field coil horn driver. The field coil also served as the filter choke for the amplifier's power supply to reduce AC ripple. The one drawback of the model 30 and the earlier 31's are bad interstage transformers which are not easy to obtain. However, there are companies that rewind transformers...expensive deal, but not impossible. The 31H was made up until 1956. The 21H which was a 31H in a smaller cabinet, and only one set of top louvers. the 21H was offered with 2 different amplifiers; a 20 watt which used 6V6GT output tubes in push-pull configuration and the 30 watt amplifier which used 6L6G or 5881's. The 21H also used a field coil speaker for the bottom rotor. As Jim stated below, Not many techs around who are familiar with them. I have copies of the original service manuals which I keep above my workbench. Those Leslie's sound amazing on a B3/C3. Just not easy to get serviced or restored. I repair/Restore maybe one to two per year. I don't take in anymore B's or C's to repair since I have no room in my shop. I just repair amplifiers and repair/restore vintage tube radios & TV's as well as pro audio. Jim has some amazing deals on Hammond organs and Leslie Speakers. Check out his stock of them. It's like walking into Hammond Heaven :) PS: The 251 is a 2 channel Leslie which is more suitable for an A100 or other organs that have built in Speakers.
@@djfrank59 Hi Frank! Where is your shop located? Perhaps we could have you restore some of older Leslie power amps. You have a wealth of information and we appreciate you sharing it with us! Jim Huss
I have a Hammond Leslie 47 model How to make it to speed
I believe you are asking how to make your single speed Leslie into a two speed version without finding completely different motors...which is actually an option if you can find the motors. It may be more practical to purchase a speed control unit called " Hamptone speed control from Mr, Bill Brown at BB Organ. Contact him for more details.
251?
The Leslie model 251 is a two channel Leslie speaker to allow the second channel in the organ, which is the reverb channel, to be expressed through separate speakers in the Leslie 251. This model Leslie was often used with the M-100 series Hammond organ and two channel Conn organs to name a few. It is much like a Leslie 147 but with a second 15 watt aux channel.
Who ever is playing in the back ground is getting down on the one
Looking for a 325
WE have a model 323 in stock but do not know the 325. Please contact B3buyer@aol.com for more details.
@Jim Huss, Keyboard Exchange International how many pins... my combo pre... has 6... How much for the 323?