@@brucepreston3927 Aaaah, I wouldn't say it's anywhere near double the work. The technical testing and setup takes longer than any other part by far. Video prep isn't doubled, recording and editing is the only part doubled. He's smart though, maybe 20% more work to give or take double his views.
Yep! It's amazing. I've been lucky enough to get my hands on some cheap, obsolete profiling equipment off of eBay. The old stuff I have is all optical and mechanical so it requires a lot of effort and some math to come up with a measurement. The integrated software in his equipment is really where the magic happens. That magic is expensive!
Thank for the video, der8auer! Just what I needed as I have a EKWB direct die block & just bought a 14900k & I was hesitant to delid it without an expert doing it first.
As someone who has purchased the Delid Die Mate and the Thermal Grizzly Mycro Direct-Die CPU Water Block RGB I can recommend the block and the delid tool. It has made a huge difference to load and idle temps. Outstanding craftsmanship.
From what I understand from both Kingpin and others, running direct die is really not of any benefit for these 1700 socket chips. This solution with liquid metal and reinstalling the IHS provide the same results. I also believe that the 9.1GHz clock done by ASUS was done with an IHS, not direct die. No experience, just what is floating around out there.
-Sysinfo is the smaller of the loads. OBS is the hog, if 3 to 4 percent CPU load can be called a hog...- Edit: So I looked back on the taskmanager in the video and to my surprise HWInfo is indeed the largest loaf at about 4%. OBS isn't even visible in the list sorted after CPU load, high to low...
Even better would be tapping directly into the SMBUS with an external microcontroller the way out-of-band management controllers (like Dell DRAC or HP iLO) in servers do. A number of motherboards have smbus headers you could read from, and they all have an smbus you could solder to
12C drop is good result from any perspective. I was sold on Liquid metal back when I did my i9-7900X and saw a 18C drop in terms on the X299 board. Even the 12700K saw a 10C drop and I done run it as hard as i did the 7900X. I am keen to see this as a last upgrade for the LGA1700 to last me another 3 years. Thanks again Roman good work.
00:04 Testing the compatibility and performance of the 14900K delidding 01:38 Delidding results in higher overclocking potential for improved CPU performance. 02:56 Peak power draw was 293 Watt. 04:45 The video discusses the process of delidding a CPU and modifying the IHS. 06:18 The height profile of the area shows it is at a perfect 0.3mm, indicating no need for adjustment on the heat sink. 07:54 Maximum core temperature after second cinebench run: 93.1°C 09:37 Delidding with IHS and contact frame resulted in significant temperature improvements. 11:03 Delidding and modifying a CPU with liquid metal can provide a temperature improvement of 2 to 6 degrees Celsius.
Roman, always give your videos a watch/support just because of this sort of thing. You're not someone who will stick to a "point" stubbornly and not admit maybe a new view. It would be interesting to see if this sort of result can also be achieved with the lower end CPUs, if so, it would seem that maybe "14th Gen" is not as bad as first thought and a good value proposition, especially for those who live in hotter climates.
Just ordered my intel 1700 thermal grizzly delis tool kit from amazon. The temps have climbed in my new AIO and case . Sadly I thought my lian li sup01 case and lian li Galahad trinity 2 360mm would have kept the system as cool as my old Thermaltake case and their 420mm AIO and sadly it doesn’t. Either way this is the last product of TG that I don’t have in my arsenal. Thank you Roman for all your hard work making products and thermal paste. And mostly thank you for always making multiple copies of the same content for us that don’t speak German. I don’t know of any other content creators that dedicated to his subscribers. Belly rubs to the beautiful kitties❤❤❤
For many months I was looking for the DIE height of the processor, I always looked for that name on the internet: on Google and TH-cam but I never found even a video or article about it. And then, casually watching your video without the intention of finding this information: boom. I came across the information I was looking for so long. Just for this information you already deserve my like + subscription.
I was just asking you about the delidding for the 14900K and found this ONLY video! Thank you for doing this and look forward to doing this with my new Hackintosh setup! I'm really glad you did this video, because I had ALREADY ordered the EK-Quantum Velocity² Direct Die D-RGB and Thermal Grizzly Intel 13th Gen Delid-Die-Mate, before watching this new video. Glad that I ordered those and look forward to seeing even better results with NO lid on that CPU.
The fact that you dont do Direct die means to me that the EKWB direct die product is still faulty :S Is there any possibility you revisit the matter and check the new Revised Direct die Cold plate ? Thanks Roman , Happy healthy new year !
@@basshead. Nah, Zen+ was legit. 2nd gen Ryzen went from 14nm to 12nm at GF. Added more instruction sets and was way more stable than 1st gen. Granted uplift wasn't great, but it was up to 15% in some cases. It's nothing like 14th gen Intel.
@@alienrenders Agreed, Zen+ didn't offer any earth-shattering improvements but it was far more stable and easier to live with. I would hazard to say that Zen+ was a far more impressive uplift than 13th>14th gen Intel.
It is what it is. Same price, at least where I am - actually the 14900K is about 15 Euro cheaper... And when I bench the 13900K and 14900K I have right here, the 14900K is faster. 14900K scores 40400 in CB and the other 37180. Both clamped at 253 watts, -0.07 offset, LLC 5 and at 83-85 C. The difference may not be huge, but I've yet to see anyone with a 14 i9 K that ran slower than a 13 i9 K.
Here, I got a crappy chip. Slower than the 13900k at any stable settings. Thermal frame, 360aio. I even isolated the hot cores and clocked the. Individually.
the difference between 13th gen and 14th gen is , 14th gen is a higher IPC and better Quality silica due too improvements in production and experience gained from Intel's new Architecture . better more refined quality Silica with lower temps , higher boost clock out of box and better overclocking potential . most reviewers didn't understand or know really what was going on .
For this or even for 10c on average - this is a great result. I would delidde my CPu for 10c. I got your delidder for i9 9900K but did not do it due that I hear 10c was hard to achieve. 10c temp that will be lowered from stock is a great result and I would do it. Sell your special delidder for that fancy shnancy for a good price limited edition from Germany.
I love your Sunday vids. Sunday is the only day off I have from work and I love waking up and seeing a new vid from you every Sunday, really makes my morning! Awesome content as usual and please keep em coming!!!
Love the content man! If i don't watch for knowledge or guidance, ill throw you on in the background for the ambiance. Also wanted to say i REALLY love the Kryonaut! I picked some up for my upgrades and noticed a good 6-7c decrease in thermals under full load compared to Noctua paste. Some would say that's mostly marginal, i say its more than enough for me to be completely satisfied. Thank you for all you bring to the space/community.
My CPU would immediately Thermal when doing any benchmark - just straight to 100C on my Aorus AIO 360mm as soon as you pressed "Start" (eg: Intel Extreme Tuning, OCCT, etc.). I've just de-lidded my i9-14900KF, 7200MT/s DDR5. I went the full "Thermal Grizzly + der8auer route" (de-lid CPU, lap IHS top flat AND shave the skirt, liquid metal CPU->IHS, contact frame IHS, etc.). I had to shave the skirt of my IHS (my OCD really) because when I put the IHS back I didn't feel like the IHS was touching the CPU die, even minimally, and had no way to verify the gap. I wanted to be sure so I kept sanding until I heard a "different tick" sound when I placed the IHS onto the CPU Die board and there was a slight gap (say
On a different subject, I purchased your new ryzen delidding tool and after removing the IHS and cleaning the silicon realized that the chiplets are not parallel. It took a significant amount of lapping to create a single plane surface for my waterblock. After some thought I decided to remachine the waterblock to alter the water flow by 90 deg trying to improve the temps across the cores. Have you tried this ? It seems like all waterblocks are primarily designed around intel chip layout. EK has offset their inlet but are still cooling the cores along the long axis.
That was surprising at first, but after thinking the difference makes sense. Probably one of the reasons why Indium is as thick as it is. Allows for manufacturing tolerances and means that they don't have to make sure that every wafer is exactly the same. It's easy to forget just how small 0.1mm is, and how expensive it can be to get everything perfect.
Very nice to see your content, thank you Roman. Would your contact frame allow direct die option ? I convinced a friend to go direct die and we bought the whole set of yours but for a 13900KF and now i am stuck with my question ... Thanks again for what you provide us 🙂
How do you clean off the Indium solder? The last time I de-lided was back when intel CPU's used paste (3rd gen i7's for example) and didn't have capacitors on the PCB that could be sheered off.
What about lapping ? I have the lapping tool and it did well on my 13600k but with my 14900k I’m hesitant to do it and void the warranty as I’m having some stability and seemingly a worse imc than my 13600k. Also I lapped my cold plate prior and I’m thinking I’m not getting even contact I think so could using a lapped cold plate be causing me stability issues on a non lapped cpu? 😮
When you do these kinds of videos it just showcases his much thermal headroom Intel & AMD could have had if they optimized their conductive material used and their IHS.
A further comment: As I said, with the '14th gen' launch I'm waiting for the 14900KS after Intel kept back all the 'good' 13900K chips for the KS release. Hopefully January 2024. Your de-lid tool is obviously still compatible as the die hasn't changed dimensions! Would it be possible for you to do a direct die test of your new 14900K using LM, Kryonaut and graphene sheet? I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in the results and it would potentially remove the need to re-apply liquid metal every year or two. Also, any chance of you offering binned delidded 14900K chips with likely KS level of SP and IMC?
@@Pavasoz Yes, probably only 100MHz on paper but Intel kept the best IMC and Ring chips back for the KS release as well and will probably do so again so that's another reason I'm waiting (and hoping).
@@Pavasoz I got my 14900KS a day after release. 117 on the P Cores and 86 on the MC SP. Dropped to 106 overall by mediocre E Cores at 76 but not complaining. Runs 5.9GHz all core with 6.2GHz on 2 cores and 4.5Ghz on the E Cores out of the box on my Asus Z790 Hero on custom loop. MoRa arriving in 4 days for delid and see if I can get at least 6GHz all core in R23.
I'd like to see you take it a little further. Sand down the IHS, etc and so forth. Do 'all the things' to it, aside from direct die; then do a direct die comparison as well to top it off. Let us see just how much can be done to make the thermals better. I suspect there is another 6-9 degrees that can be dropped off.
I'm curious if Intel change something with their manufacturing process. Could you try this with a different 14th gen CPU too, to see if this result is consistent? Being able to delid, apply liquid metal, and then putting the IHS back on for a 10C reduction would be great. Also, it's been years (maybe a decade..) since I've used any liquid metal paste, what is the expected longevity in a case like this, where it's under the IHS? Is reapplication required every few years, or no?
I thought my 98 SP 13900K was bad but can hit 5.8GHz/4.4GHz all core with EK Velocity^2 block and custom loop, though the IMC will only hit 7000 MTs. I'd be interested in a direct die test of at least an average (near 100) 14900K. I'm waiting for the 'good' chips that will release as the KS early next year!
Roman isn't conformal coating required with bare die and IHS? One thing in confused with latest Intel CPU is high temperature, i still don't understand if the chip is hot or is it trying to boost to maximum TJmax value until throttling temp limit takes over. It can be especially confusing on Intel laptops wherein I'm unsure if it has worse cooling or worse tdp setting from factory allowed to hit throttling temps ASAP
I used 14900kf with supercool direct die for a couple of days while testing and comparing it with 13900ks, these are two absolutely identical processors, there are no differences in appearance. But the IMC of the 14900kf turned out to be so garbage that even 8000 on the 790 apex were unstable, so I sold it immediately after the tests. This "new generation" reminds me of the 11th gen))) no improvements, just replaced one digit on the lid and pulled up the turbo boost.
What a nice tool to measure the height and also get the 3D representation. I wonder hown t does that, it uses some lasers to focus and then measure the distance?
my take on Delide vs STOCK / minor throttle vs all cores throttling, smoothness with responsiveness / i said take silicon gel make a thin coat on the chip put the heat spreader on as if you are using the silicon gen as thermal compound ... then remove the heat spreader and observe how the silicon makes little stripes and lines and bubbles to show where the high sides as well as edge of chip overall flatness i use paper nail files to level it flat until it's a suction cup to the heat spreader / around the edge and some times in the middle longest sides in the middle
last thing to do put the his to copper watersand it to 4000 grip mirror finish for better disipation water sand also yr cooling unit to mirror same process for powerfull contact
Question: Can i use my 12gen delid tool and my EKWB direct die water block on the 14th gen? Or do I have to buy all new blocks/ socket retention and delid tools? The direct die surface looks like it will cover the 14th gen and the socket is the same. I have a delidded 12900k with a direct die water block with liquid metal.
14th gen is meant to use less power and have lower temps over 13th gen. 14th gen has implemented something called DLVR, a method to reduce power in 14th gen. Maybe somehow your 14900K messed up with the indium and wrecked the temps. For further evidence see Hardware Canucks vid on the 14th gen release for temperatures.
Could you do a couple more, just to see if this is a mildly consistent with other CPUs? I’m planning a new system and would be down for giving some feedback.
A 1c drop makes it much more compelling? Now deliding and liquid metal makes big gains but the has to be redone every so often and the amount of dead cpus you would have from people diying this job would be astronomical.
@@mddunlap03 Improvement is around -10°C and that's significant, and LM doesn't need reaplication (that's why PS5 has LM).. if Intel can manage to optimize motherboard supplied vcore that adds -10 °C improvement and if they lower their prices like they did with 12th gen that's a compelling product. So 100°C - 20°C = 80°C operation temperature and for CPU's that's golden, longevity would be no issue.
@@inherentlyflawed Price can be changed and longevity is relative. Most users aren't rendering 24/7. Your CPU can reach high temps every now and then without damaging itself (that's why AMD designed their 7000 CPU boost limits with temperatures in mind not voltage)
First thing I did with my 14900k was under volt it. Lost a lot of heat and saved about 80 watts in Cinebench R23 without losing any points on the final score.
I have a torquing screwdriver that ranges from 0.05 nm to 0.6 nm. By using the 13th/14th gen contact frame, what mounting torque would you recommend for a proper CPU contact with the pins in the socket? I know the 12 th gen recommends between 0.03 and 0.06 nm, but the 13th/14th gen one has no recommendation.
I would rather see a bigger increase in performance o reduction in price at the lower end. Like if the new 14100 is cheaper than a 13100 or at least has a 20% increase in performance that would be great
Hi, I don't understand what you did. It seems to me you just replaced indium with Gallium. By cleaning the heatspreader you tightened the fit, the die ends up closer to the heatspreader ? is that it ? otherwise I don't see where the improvement came from. And you're cpu isn't safe anymore, the heatspreader is now loose.
It’s really surpassing Intel 14th Gen has no real performance gain over 13th gen. I am running 13900k and without OC and delidding my highest C23 score was over 40k. This was achieved by switching process to “real time” in the process manager. If I don’t tweak the processes my score drops to 39k. Hoping gen 15 is going to be better.
The fact that der8auer records in German and English for every video is some crazy dedication. Huge respect.
Yea, almost double the work! Besides prepping for the video, he does everything twice, and has to edit 2 videos everytime!
der8auer will be greatly benefit from the help of HeyGen AI, if you dont know what that is, google it. you will be impressed
Yes, it's good that he does this.
Was is das? 😳😱🤗
@@brucepreston3927 Aaaah, I wouldn't say it's anywhere near double the work. The technical testing and setup takes longer than any other part by far. Video prep isn't doubled, recording and editing is the only part doubled. He's smart though, maybe 20% more work to give or take double his views.
A leap in performance that can't be measured
We're talking upper mid single digits! I think I even saw 6% at one point in a game benchmark!
Hahaha 🤣
Literally can't measure it
Immeasurable
"You can literally see it ! " Intel Computex 2021 opening keynote meme.
Ah good to see DerCat is also present again. ps: DerCat is not sleeping - DerCat is in energy safe mode ;)
derMeower
DerKater
@@pneumaticFrequency😂
derKatze
DeFeline
That height profiling equipment is pretty cool
Yeah, I wonder if it could be used in watchmaking
@@vincent67239 it is used in watchmaking, but its Keyance so this setup is most likely somewhere around $80k
Yep! It's amazing. I've been lucky enough to get my hands on some cheap, obsolete profiling equipment off of eBay. The old stuff I have is all optical and mechanical so it requires a lot of effort and some math to come up with a measurement. The integrated software in his equipment is really where the magic happens. That magic is expensive!
Thank for the video, der8auer! Just what I needed as I have a EKWB direct die block & just bought a 14900k & I was hesitant to delid it without an expert doing it first.
What a week indeed. The gains from 13th-14th really had me going up a wall my dude.
hahaha
As someone who has purchased the Delid Die Mate and the Thermal Grizzly Mycro Direct-Die CPU Water Block RGB I can recommend the block and the delid tool. It has made a huge difference to load and idle temps. Outstanding craftsmanship.
Is that Mycro direct-die cpu water block for 13th/14th gen? I thought he only made it for AMD.
@@Spinelli__ Only for AM5. It works flawlessly.
@@thomaswilliams Thanks. Darn, I wish there was one for 13th / 14th gen.
@Spinelli__ EKWB Has one for i914900k.
From what I understand from both Kingpin and others, running direct die is really not of any benefit for these 1700 socket chips. This solution with liquid metal and reinstalling the IHS provide the same results. I also believe that the 9.1GHz clock done by ASUS was done with an IHS, not direct die. No experience, just what is floating around out there.
You could disable all the unused HWiNFO sensors to drop its CPU usage, as well as greatly improve readability.
-Sysinfo is the smaller of the loads. OBS is the hog, if 3 to 4 percent CPU load can be called a hog...-
Edit: So I looked back on the taskmanager in the video and to my surprise HWInfo is indeed the largest loaf at about 4%. OBS isn't even visible in the list sorted after CPU load, high to low...
Even better would be tapping directly into the SMBUS with an external microcontroller the way out-of-band management controllers (like Dell DRAC or HP iLO) in servers do. A number of motherboards have smbus headers you could read from, and they all have an smbus you could solder to
@@mycosys SM BUS, thanks, it's on a header.
12C drop is good result from any perspective. I was sold on Liquid metal back when I did my i9-7900X and saw a 18C drop in terms on the X299 board. Even the 12700K saw a 10C drop and I done run it as hard as i did the 7900X. I am keen to see this as a last upgrade for the LGA1700 to last me another 3 years. Thanks again Roman good work.
00:04 Testing the compatibility and performance of the 14900K delidding
01:38 Delidding results in higher overclocking potential for improved CPU performance.
02:56 Peak power draw was 293 Watt.
04:45 The video discusses the process of delidding a CPU and modifying the IHS.
06:18 The height profile of the area shows it is at a perfect 0.3mm, indicating no need for adjustment on the heat sink.
07:54 Maximum core temperature after second cinebench run: 93.1°C
09:37 Delidding with IHS and contact frame resulted in significant temperature improvements.
11:03 Delidding and modifying a CPU with liquid metal can provide a temperature improvement of 2 to 6 degrees Celsius.
Wonder how far you can push it with direct die cooling.
Direct die is the way to go. I’m doing 6.1 all-core and 4.7 on the e-cores but I think I can get a better chip that can do a bit better.
@@tony_bauer @400Watts
Roman, always give your videos a watch/support just because of this sort of thing. You're not someone who will stick to a "point" stubbornly and not admit maybe a new view. It would be interesting to see if this sort of result can also be achieved with the lower end CPUs, if so, it would seem that maybe "14th Gen" is not as bad as first thought and a good value proposition, especially for those who live in hotter climates.
Perhaps 14700K,,,
Just ordered my intel 1700 thermal grizzly delis tool kit from amazon. The temps have climbed in my new AIO and case . Sadly I thought my lian li sup01 case and lian li Galahad trinity 2 360mm would have kept the system as cool as my old Thermaltake case and their 420mm AIO and sadly it doesn’t. Either way this is the last product of TG that I don’t have in my arsenal. Thank you Roman for all your hard work making products and thermal paste. And mostly thank you for always making multiple copies of the same content for us that don’t speak German. I don’t know of any other content creators that dedicated to his subscribers. Belly rubs to the beautiful kitties❤❤❤
I'm not sure how seriously I can take der8auer now that I've seen he doesn't use the Dark Mode theme in Windows.
For many months I was looking for the DIE height of the processor, I always looked for that name on the internet: on Google and TH-cam but I never found even a video or article about it. And then, casually watching your video without the intention of finding this information: boom. I came across the information I was looking for so long. Just for this information you already deserve my like + subscription.
Fyi- there is one capacitor on the board that is slightly taller than the core processor. If you're planning on direct die cooling, be aware of that.
Just realized that Roman's a Stargate fan. I knew this guy was awesome, but good to have confirmation!
eagerly waiting for your coverage of 7000WX and pro series chips!
I was just asking you about the delidding for the 14900K and found this ONLY video! Thank you for doing this and look forward to doing this with my new Hackintosh setup! I'm really glad you did this video, because I had ALREADY ordered the EK-Quantum Velocity² Direct Die D-RGB and Thermal Grizzly Intel 13th Gen Delid-Die-Mate, before watching this new video. Glad that I ordered those and look forward to seeing even better results with NO lid on that CPU.
Great use of the Derlidder on this -Core i9 13980K- oops, I mean 14900K
Honestly if I were Intel, I'd have put a proper lid and thermal paste for the 14900k, so that it can at least have a better cooling than a 13900K.
Too much cost, they’ve got fanboys to profit of!
rreiter
Same as cars, standard BMW M5 Good enough, or you need better ?
The fact that you dont do Direct die means to me that the EKWB direct die product is still faulty :S
Is there any possibility you revisit the matter and check the new Revised Direct die Cold plate ?
Thanks Roman , Happy healthy new year !
I've just recovered from the mind blowing experience of 14th gen myself, what a wildly innovative and completely revolutionary series of products.
Zen+ all over again.
@@basshead. Nah, Zen+ was legit. 2nd gen Ryzen went from 14nm to 12nm at GF. Added more instruction sets and was way more stable than 1st gen. Granted uplift wasn't great, but it was up to 15% in some cases. It's nothing like 14th gen Intel.
@@alienrenders Agreed, Zen+ didn't offer any earth-shattering improvements but it was far more stable and easier to live with. I would hazard to say that Zen+ was a far more impressive uplift than 13th>14th gen Intel.
It is what it is. Same price, at least where I am - actually the 14900K is about 15 Euro cheaper... And when I bench the 13900K and 14900K I have right here, the 14900K is faster.
14900K scores 40400 in CB and the other 37180. Both clamped at 253 watts, -0.07 offset, LLC 5 and at 83-85 C.
The difference may not be huge, but I've yet to see anyone with a 14 i9 K that ran slower than a 13 i9 K.
Here, I got a crappy chip. Slower than the 13900k at any stable settings. Thermal frame, 360aio. I even isolated the hot cores and clocked the. Individually.
the difference between 13th gen and 14th gen is , 14th gen is a higher IPC and better Quality silica due too improvements in production and experience gained from Intel's new Architecture . better more refined quality Silica with lower temps , higher boost clock out of box and better overclocking potential . most reviewers didn't understand or know really what was going on .
Top 10 comments that aged horribly. 😂
For this or even for 10c on average - this is a great result. I would delidde my CPu for 10c. I got your delidder for i9 9900K but did not do it due that I hear 10c was hard to achieve. 10c temp that will be lowered from stock is a great result and I would do it. Sell your special delidder for that fancy shnancy for a good price limited edition from Germany.
I noticed you used a cpu with rog bios rating of SP 82 which I guess makes it more commonplace as opposed to golden. Interesting experiment, thanks!
I love your Sunday vids. Sunday is the only day off I have from work and I love waking up and seeing a new vid from you every Sunday, really makes my morning! Awesome content as usual and please keep em coming!!!
that is a fantastic result, i’m impressed!😊
Love the content man! If i don't watch for knowledge or guidance, ill throw you on in the background for the ambiance. Also wanted to say i REALLY love the Kryonaut! I picked some up for my upgrades and noticed a good 6-7c decrease in thermals under full load compared to Noctua paste. Some would say that's mostly marginal, i say its more than enough for me to be completely satisfied. Thank you for all you bring to the space/community.
we can soon start measuring the power draw in horsepower of these things..
Always der-bleeding edge from der8auer! Who you gonna call? (we know!) All give a big thx to Roman ...
My CPU would immediately Thermal when doing any benchmark - just straight to 100C on my Aorus AIO 360mm as soon as you pressed "Start" (eg: Intel Extreme Tuning, OCCT, etc.). I've just de-lidded my i9-14900KF, 7200MT/s DDR5. I went the full "Thermal Grizzly + der8auer route" (de-lid CPU, lap IHS top flat AND shave the skirt, liquid metal CPU->IHS, contact frame IHS, etc.). I had to shave the skirt of my IHS (my OCD really) because when I put the IHS back I didn't feel like the IHS was touching the CPU die, even minimally, and had no way to verify the gap. I wanted to be sure so I kept sanding until I heard a "different tick" sound when I placed the IHS onto the CPU Die board and there was a slight gap (say
good video. thank you for the info and the work you do.
finally, an actually measurable improvment in production! kudos Intel! 🎉
Regardless of Intel's choices thank you Roman for the interesting amazing vids!
This is how intel is producing it's CPU's, only 0.3 % need 5.8 Ghz for gaming gear, only 0.0036 % of them do this. Not a market for them.
On a different subject, I purchased your new ryzen delidding tool and after removing the IHS and cleaning the silicon realized that the chiplets are not parallel. It took a significant amount of lapping to create a single plane surface for my waterblock. After some thought I decided to remachine the waterblock to alter the water flow by 90 deg trying to improve the temps across the cores. Have you tried this ? It seems like all waterblocks are primarily designed around intel chip layout. EK has offset their inlet but are still cooling the cores along the long axis.
That was surprising at first, but after thinking the difference makes sense. Probably one of the reasons why Indium is as thick as it is. Allows for manufacturing tolerances and means that they don't have to make sure that every wafer is exactly the same.
It's easy to forget just how small 0.1mm is, and how expensive it can be to get everything perfect.
ferric chloride on a Q-tip will dissolve the solder and leave a factory smooth finish on the die.
the video i was waiting for. now i can replace my direct die cooled 12700kf, with a 14900k.
im wondering if kryosheet is safe to put on laptops due to vibrations while moving the machine
Very nice to see your content, thank you Roman. Would your contact frame allow direct die option ? I convinced a friend to go direct die and we bought the whole set of yours but for a 13900KF and now i am stuck with my question ... Thanks again for what you provide us 🙂
just like the old days of delidding the 8700k
Definitely in my top five list of best Germans. Keep up the great work
Who's number 1
Born too late to meet Nikola Tesla, Too early to see Flying cars but the right time to be born in Germany and be able to watch both of his videos
Next time, can you please review performance with an aftermarket IHS (e.g. Rockit)?
Can you make a video with max oc vs stock ?
13900kf, direct die block, CB23 around 44000
Nice video, well done, thanks for sharing it :)
Just did this to make Jay's build take an extra day.
How do you clean off the Indium solder?
The last time I de-lided was back when intel CPU's used paste (3rd gen i7's for example) and didn't have capacitors on the PCB that could be sheered off.
It worked out well!
Intel clearly missed the opportunity to call this a "refresh", with CPUs being named Core i7 13770K, Core i9 13980K, etc...
What about lapping ? I have the lapping tool and it did well on my 13600k but with my 14900k I’m hesitant to do it and void the warranty as I’m having some stability and seemingly a worse imc than my 13600k.
Also I lapped my cold plate prior and I’m thinking I’m not getting even contact I think so could using a lapped cold plate be causing me stability issues on a non lapped cpu? 😮
This channel is now Green: DerCat is sustainable energy 🔋 😌
It is like this on 10 or 5 other similar chips? Mabye the improvements are bigger than intel can "realize" or make effective.
I`d really love to see the EK direct die waterblock on that delidded 14900k, and with a chiller hooked up to it (-20c water).
The EK direct die block is actually really bad. Supercool or Iceman Direct Die blocks perform much better.
@@jjlw2378can you elaborate on this? I’m in the market but don’t really know where to start for reliable research
When you do these kinds of videos it just showcases his much thermal headroom Intel & AMD could have had if they optimized their conductive material used and their IHS.
wow... still playing on my PC with integrated graphic, and here we are:) delidding 14th gen intel cpu like that haha
A further comment: As I said, with the '14th gen' launch I'm waiting for the 14900KS after Intel kept back all the 'good' 13900K chips for the KS release. Hopefully January 2024. Your de-lid tool is obviously still compatible as the die hasn't changed dimensions! Would it be possible for you to do a direct die test of your new 14900K using LM, Kryonaut and graphene sheet? I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in the results and it would potentially remove the need to re-apply liquid metal every year or two. Also, any chance of you offering binned delidded 14900K chips with likely KS level of SP and IMC?
Would the ks be worth waiting for probably 100mhz more the like its stock version from 13
@@Pavasoz Yes, probably only 100MHz on paper but Intel kept the best IMC and Ring chips back for the KS release as well and will probably do so again so that's another reason I'm waiting (and hoping).
@@Pavasoz I got my 14900KS a day after release. 117 on the P Cores and 86 on the MC SP. Dropped to 106 overall by mediocre E Cores at 76 but not complaining. Runs 5.9GHz all core with 6.2GHz on 2 cores and 4.5Ghz on the E Cores out of the box on my Asus Z790 Hero on custom loop. MoRa arriving in 4 days for delid and see if I can get at least 6GHz all core in R23.
It would be interesting to see the numbers with KryoSheet under the IHS.
I got 13C drop by deliding and using direct die from EK on 13900ks. Glad it matches the pros results.
So no Intel Direct Die water block? We’re your plans just scrapped? If so that really sucks I really wanted one.
we're still working on it but we had some problems in the design unfortunately
13th gen didn't sell, so they put a 14 on the box.
Thank you!! Doing mine today with your delidder :))
That intro sarcasm is 10/10
TY, About what I thought it would be.
I'd like to see you take it a little further. Sand down the IHS, etc and so forth. Do 'all the things' to it, aside from direct die; then do a direct die comparison as well to top it off.
Let us see just how much can be done to make the thermals better.
I suspect there is another 6-9 degrees that can be dropped off.
Probably right but for the risk is it worth it
Do follow-up video how much better it overclocks now...
I'm curious if Intel change something with their manufacturing process. Could you try this with a different 14th gen CPU too, to see if this result is consistent? Being able to delid, apply liquid metal, and then putting the IHS back on for a 10C reduction would be great. Also, it's been years (maybe a decade..) since I've used any liquid metal paste, what is the expected longevity in a case like this, where it's under the IHS? Is reapplication required every few years, or no?
I would like to get answers for all of those questions as well ;)
some people recommend reapplying every 6-7 months but thats just what ive heard.
I found the answer 3 comments below yours, every 1-2 years it has to be reapplied
@@InsomniaReal Thanks dude, appreciate it.
I thought my 98 SP 13900K was bad but can hit 5.8GHz/4.4GHz all core with EK Velocity^2 block and custom loop, though the IMC will only hit 7000 MTs. I'd be interested in a direct die test of at least an average (near 100) 14900K. I'm waiting for the 'good' chips that will release as the KS early next year!
My 14900k has an sp of 98 also and the imc sucks compared to my sp80 13600k lol 😂 I don’t know why an sp98 doesn’t run stable on 7200 Xmp
@@cppctek 68 SP IMC 😢 It will run 7200 but gets a single bit memory error about every 2 hours on heavy memory testing load.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I've never understood why the metal paste could perform better than the welding. Aren't both metal?
Will you be playing with the new Threadrippers at all Roman ?? Apparently WR set by AMD for R23, previously held by a dual EPYC.
could extra extra precious bin cpus use edm machined heat spreader be any usefull
It’s crazy that you can optimize this better than the engineers at intel. Makes you wonder what else they’re missing over there.
It's the same thing and Intel is pissing on you, while saying it's raining.
Delidding raptor lake works well for me
Btw what AIO did you use in this video ? 100°C at less than 300w is pretty bad tbh
Can I buy one of these from you ready to go?
Roman isn't conformal coating required with bare die and IHS? One thing in confused with latest Intel CPU is high temperature, i still don't understand if the chip is hot or is it trying to boost to maximum TJmax value until throttling temp limit takes over. It can be especially confusing on Intel laptops wherein I'm unsure if it has worse cooling or worse tdp setting from factory allowed to hit throttling temps ASAP
With these 2 steps, delid, liquid metal, and contact frame, you can get it from 93'c to 81'c, that's fucking insane
I used 14900kf with supercool direct die for a couple of days while testing and comparing it with 13900ks, these are two absolutely identical processors, there are no differences in appearance. But the IMC of the 14900kf turned out to be so garbage that even 8000 on the 790 apex were unstable, so I sold it immediately after the tests. This "new generation" reminds me of the 11th gen))) no improvements, just replaced one digit on the lid and pulled up the turbo boost.
What a nice tool to measure the height and also get the 3D representation. I wonder hown t does that, it uses some lasers to focus and then measure the distance?
my take on Delide vs STOCK / minor throttle vs all cores throttling, smoothness with responsiveness / i said take silicon gel make a thin coat on the chip put the heat spreader on as if you are using the silicon gen as thermal compound ... then remove the heat spreader and observe how the silicon makes little stripes and lines and bubbles to show where the high sides as well as edge of chip overall flatness i use paper nail files to level it flat until it's a suction cup to the heat spreader / around the edge and some times in the middle longest sides in the middle
last thing to do put the his to copper watersand it to 4000 grip mirror finish for better disipation water sand also yr cooling unit to mirror same process for powerfull contact
@5:50 What is this underfill material on the sides of the die? Is it the same silicon, or something else?
Question: Can i use my 12gen delid tool and my EKWB direct die water block on the 14th gen? Or do I have to buy all new blocks/ socket retention and delid tools? The direct die surface looks like it will cover the 14th gen and the socket is the same. I have a delidded 12900k with a direct die water block with liquid metal.
Hi, I love your videos. Can the EK-Quantum Velocity² Direct Die D-RGB - 1700 Nickel + Plexi be used with 14900K ?? It is the same right ??
14th gen is meant to use less power and have lower temps over 13th gen. 14th gen has implemented something called DLVR, a method to reduce power in 14th gen.
Maybe somehow your 14900K messed up with the indium and wrecked the temps. For further evidence see Hardware Canucks vid on the 14th gen release for temperatures.
DLVR on 14th Gen? Are you sure? :)
That looks like our confocal 😂
does that extra thermal headroom allow for a better overclock since you arent thermal throttling?
Could you do a couple more, just to see if this is a mildly consistent with other CPUs? I’m planning a new system and would be down for giving some feedback.
TBH Intel should partner with you and start pre-applying condoctonaut to their K sku's, they would be much more compelling products.
A 1c drop makes it much more compelling? Now deliding and liquid metal makes big gains but the has to be redone every so often and the amount of dead cpus you would have from people diying this job would be astronomical.
Price and longevity dictate that they don’t.
@@mddunlap03 Improvement is around -10°C and that's significant, and LM doesn't need reaplication (that's why PS5 has LM).. if Intel can manage to optimize motherboard supplied vcore that adds -10 °C improvement and if they lower their prices like they did with 12th gen that's a compelling product. So 100°C - 20°C = 80°C operation temperature and for CPU's that's golden, longevity would be no issue.
@@mddunlap03 Of course Intel won't do any of what i said bc they're as holes
@@inherentlyflawed Price can be changed and longevity is relative. Most users aren't rendering 24/7. Your CPU can reach high temps every now and then without damaging itself (that's why AMD designed their 7000 CPU boost limits with temperatures in mind not voltage)
Instead of using liquid metal, what would the results be if you covered the inside of the IHS lid with a KryoSheet?
First thing I did with my 14900k was under volt it. Lost a lot of heat and saved about 80 watts in Cinebench R23 without losing any points on the final score.
I have a torquing screwdriver that ranges from 0.05 nm to 0.6 nm. By using the 13th/14th gen contact frame, what mounting torque would you recommend for a proper CPU contact with the pins in the socket? I know the 12 th gen recommends between 0.03 and 0.06 nm, but the 13th/14th gen one has no recommendation.
I would rather see a bigger increase in performance o reduction in price at the lower end.
Like if the new 14100 is cheaper than a 13100 or at least has a 20% increase in performance that would be great
Hi, I don't understand what you did. It seems to me you just replaced indium with Gallium.
By cleaning the heatspreader you tightened the fit, the die ends up closer to the heatspreader ? is that it ? otherwise I don't see where the improvement came from. And you're cpu isn't safe anymore, the heatspreader is now loose.
no direct die testing??? :/
Btw, I am looking forward to that ram cooling that we spoke on instagram!!
Yea, if i delidded and needed height, i think i would get copper shims. Putting the heat spreader back on is just a waste.
Did you put back the ihs after putting the conductonaut , after which the ihs again froze on and then to remove it will we again need delidding tool ?
Now this is content
It’s really surpassing Intel 14th Gen has no real performance gain over 13th gen. I am running 13900k and without OC and delidding my highest C23 score was over 40k. This was achieved by switching process to “real time” in the process manager. If I don’t tweak the processes my score drops to 39k. Hoping gen 15 is going to be better.