Harriet Harman on misogyny, trans rights and whether Tony Blair was a feminist | The News Agents
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Lewis is joined in the studio by one of the most senior women in British political history, former Labour Deputy Prime Minister, Harriet Harman.
Two weeks into a new Labour government, she joins us for an extended conversation about her political life and journey, her memories of working alongside Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, and her advice to her successors in the party.
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Emily Maitlis, Jon Sopel and Lewis Goodall - three of the UK’s top journalists - host a brand-new daily news podcast: The News Agents.
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Fantastic interview, well done Lewis. A masterclass on how to allow a safe and frank discussion without constantly butting in and contradicting as many do.
Well, a journalist should still contradict where necessary. But there's a time and a place.
As a modern-ish man I find Harriet's experience of misogyny and cruelty (for that's what it was/is) by people on both sides of parliament break my heart. It was and is wrong. There is still too much violence toward women. Way too much racism. We still have a long way to go.
Thank you Harriet.
I think in some areas (I am only a bit younger than Harriet Harman) things have got a bit better for women but in other areas things are much worse.
@@HJJSL-bl8kk50 years of constant whining.
@@youtubeyoutube936 Have you even been listening to this podcast? You are just part of the problem.
@@youtubeyoutube936 Big SDE, I think (I'm sure women will instantly recognise this phenomenon).
I’ve listened to HH for about 40 years. Do you recall when she was pro PIE in the 70s?
Absolutely brilliant listen. Thank goodness we had women like Harriet in government to challenge the mysogny and bring about equality for more women. Thank you 👍
Amazing interview Lewis. Harriet has been my hero my entire life. Well done.
What a great interview
I was a bit puzzled for a second when she said the tories have had three women leaders...then I went, oh the woman who lost to a lettuce. 😁
Thank you Lewis & the Newsagents for this wonderful interview.
Some of the examples Harriet gives are truly breathtaking.
A fantastic constituency MP. I've lived on the border of her constituency for longer than she was an MP and she was always there supporting small local events, rain or shine, which is more than I can say for some other local MPs.
I listened to another superb Lewis Goodall interview and cheered for states women and men too who have fought for a just society. I am a son of the 50s and recognise how much I have had to be educated, mainly by my amazing wife and more recently by my daughters. What strikes me is that the struggle for women's rights never seems to be over. But I am so grateful for what women like Harriet Harman have achieved, not just for women but for all of us because we all benefit from a just society.
A delightful interview with Harriet. She covered all the bases with me.
A fantastic open interview with a very important (ex) MP. Thank you Harriet and Lewis.
Thank you🙏 That was terrific 😍🌷
What a great interview. What an interesting and brilliant woman
That was an awesome interview, really interesting. Thank you both.
The best interview I have heard this year.
Fantastic interview and so refreshing to hear a balanced view on trans identity
Neanderthal attitudes in the 70s. Still haven't disappeared.
Things are better in many ways, but the worship by so many young men of the mysoginistic and loathsome Andrew Tait is very worrying for the future.
In the 20th Century the Tories were consistently more popular with women and Labour more popular with men. This has now reversed.
This is an oversimplification. Voting patterns are influenced by many factors beyond gender, such as social class, regional differences, and key political issues at the time. Historical data shows variations in support across different periods, with women sometimes favoring Labour due to their focus on social welfare, and significant shifts in recent years. Political allegiances are complex and can't be accurately reduced to simple gender-based trends.
Absolutely excellent & at the end moving. With her all the way.
A really interesting interview. I’ve always had a huge respect for Harriet Harman.
Should have asked her about her involvement in P. I. E.
Jonathan PIE?
@@TrevorBarre
NO!
In other news..... google's your friend
It was her husband I think? Pretty grim!!
Well you may not be hearing calls to repeal the Gender Recognition Act, Harriet, but plenty of people are saying it. You're notvlistening. Stick to this line long enough and the work you've done in your life will be forgotten under the enormous heap of ignominy that ends it.
You cannot ask someone if a trans woman is a woman without following up with: should trans women take part in female only rugby? Or should trans women be admitted to women's prisons? If the answer is no, then what do you mean when you say they are women?
So if the problem is size and muscle mass in the example of rugby, are you suggesting male teams should be split by size to avoid injury?
@@J-wm4go No. I’m suggesting that women should not have to compete against men who have a clear advantage with bone density, lung size, muscle mass, hand span, shoulder width, heart size etc etc etc. This is not hard.
I love the pod but the gaps between the audio and video uploads is remarkable. I think I listened to this on Friday?!
That's weird because I'm a year older than Harriet Harman and yet I certainly never felt that my role in life was to get married and 'look after' a husband, and I found Germain Greer to be obnoxious. I went to a Grammar School, and not a private girls' school.
I think that was more the case for girls 5 (or so) years older than me, and also for a friend of mine who was at one of the first comprehensive school, doing the secretarial course. She learnt the skills to work in a typing pool, and was taught how to dress for work, and how to do the best for her boss - certainly to pander to his whims!
I have 2 sisters, and my father certainly didn't think we should be walked over by men - and he was a Naval officer - certainly a male dominated job. My mother had been in the Wrens in the war - going to South Africa as a telegraphist, so perhaps that affected the dynamics as well.
I went into teaching where, in a way, you're on your own in the classroom: you have your own place in the hierarchy of the school, but that's not very relevant to what you are doing when you're at the 'chalk face'. I had 2 children and then got divorced, so I was very much 'on my own' in quite a hard world - but 'hard' because I had little money and had to do full time and part time work in order to pay the mortgage. Perhaps my outlook is different because I was a tomboy and was treated as an equal by the boys.
I lost all respect for her when she was so ungracious about Jeremy Corbyn winning his seat. The labour party has really let me down. I would remind them that Boris Johnson also had a landslide.
Speaks volumes that her mother never complained about sacrificing her career for the sake of raising children.
This is not a bad thing.
There is always a trade off. Children vs career.
And at the end of the day, children need and thrive off of maternal care
Both parents should be equally involved in raising a child. Thankfully this is far more the norm today.
Can't abide her politics but admire her vocation and enthusiasm for radical change and bravery in challenging the Unions and Labour 30 plus years ago. Ironicly Labour would probably expel her from the party today for her forward thinking. She should have spoke out publicly in favour of Diane Abbott's victimisation, 6 months ago, yet there was stony silence, no public solidarity or public compassion for Abbott when she lost the whip. Why Harman complains about not being deputy PM is hilarious. The electorate had no say in appointing either Brown as PM or her as his non deputy. She is a blinkered conviction politician much like her protégé Stella Creasy MP. Wish her happy retirement but suspect she will be busier than ever, no doubt she will be a powerhouse in the Lords.
So few pols view politics as a vocation.
She is indeed tribally Labour. She was very tribal about Corbyn's reelection and the Gaza MPs elected. No reflection on these matters.
"She was very tribal about Corbyn's reelection".....showed her true deeply unpleasant self. She is part of the Labour establishment, and they threw everything at trying to stop him being re-elected and they failed. Her vile snooty rudeness to him on election night was typical of her type. She almost seemed to expect him to apologise to her for daring to win his seat.
There’s something intensely irritating about agreeing with someone you disagree with.
Eh?
What a fantastic human. Loved this.
I like her views on transgender people. It’s a shame other people aren’t as sensible.
What about PIE?
I’m glad Harriet has said that trans women are women. That what the Gender Recognition act is about. BUT, let’s not forget that trans men are 100% men. We’ve also got a long way to go about removing any gender barriers including for those that are gender fluid. We’re human beings and gender should be completely discrimination free - anything less makes a level of bigotry acceptable. If people are worried about being in the same room as a trans person then it’s their problem which should be sensitively dealt with but not to the detriment of the trans person. Even with things like sport there are ways of having divisions so people are fairly competing. Q.E.D.
I couldn't agree more with you. I long to see a world without bigotry. You win the comment of the day award.
@@MrRailjunkie ❤️😁
Her position is anti science. It’s the equivalent of flat earth theory. It’s astonishing that anyone of any intellect could subscribe to such a position.
I seriously think most men have absolutely no idea of what women go through and especially the more subtle insidious ways of sexism and misogyny,the micro aggressions,the small digs,the put downs etc based solely on geneder..its these things that are often hard to grasp and that many men,too many men still have instilled unconscious biases within them unless they have made a conscious effort not to.For that matter there are still alot of women who doubt other women and tend to give men the benefit of the doubt.
It's true that women face subtle sexism and microaggressions that can be really tough to deal with. These issues are important and need to be addressed.
However, men face their own set of challenges that are often overlooked. Just as many men might not fully understand what women go through, many women might not fully grasp the struggles men deal with. Currently, political discourse and societal narratives often fail to fully address these male challenges.
For instance, men often experience emotional and physical abuse, frequently at the hands of other men, but societal pressure to "be tough" discourages them from speaking up. Men can also face emotional abuse from women, especially partners, who might expect them to "tough it out," and men often endure this because they want to appear strong and dependable. These pressures can lead to serious mental health issues.
Men also face high rates of suicide and homelessness, which are significant problems that don’t always get the attention they deserve. They encounter subtle discrimination, such as being judged for showing vulnerability or not fitting traditional masculine roles. These struggles are real and can be just as difficult, even if they’re less visible.
Additionally, in the UK, women often have access to more societal support structures, such as domestic violence shelters, counseling services, and community programmes. Women are also more likely to receive favourable outcomes in family courts, particularly regarding child custody. These advantages, while important, highlight the imbalance in support available to men.
Acknowledging that both men and women face unique issues can help us understand each other better and work towards a more supportive society for everyone. At the moment, male-specific issues are not properly acknowledged or are often derided when brought up.
By trying to have a more balanced dialogue, we can create a society that truly supports and respects the experiences and challenges of both genders.
@@davecross4493there’s always got to be one “what about men” and “men have it worse”. You literally just said women have it better, in direct contradiction to the previous comment saying “men don’t know what it’s like for women”. At no point did that comment dismiss mens struggles, just stated that men don’t realise what women’s experiences are, and you come in with “yeah but it’s worse for men”.
@@MackerelCatI understand your point and I appreciate the importance of acknowledging the unique struggles women face, especially subtle sexism and microaggressions. It's crucial for us all to be aware of these issues and work towards addressing them.
The reason I highlighted men's challenges is not to diminish the experiences of women, but to bring attention to the fact that both genders face significant and often overlooked issues. Just as it’s important for men to understand what women go through, it’s equally important for women to understand the struggles that men face. Men experiencing high rates of suicide, homelessness, and societal pressures to suppress emotions are serious issues that need more recognition.
By attempting a balanced dialogue where we acknowledge and address the struggles of both men and women, we can work towards a more supportive and understanding society for everyone. It's about promoting empathy and support for all individuals, regardless of gender.
What an incredibly talented women.. amazing interview 👏
Got to be one of, if not the, best interviews I've listened to from the News Agents. What an inspiration she is and I say that as a man.
Love her comment on trans rights, what a lot of TERFs seem to forget is that just like many women, the journey of a trans woman is often difficult and full of obstacles. Keeping that in mind must be at the center of any discussion.
No, it's a minority issue. I would have thought that the NHS, education, housing, prisons and economic stability are rather more important. To name but a few. And please don't send me 'transphobic' ripostes.
@@TrevorBarrethe government is capable of addressing multiple issues at once. And the discrimination and vitriol against members of the British public is indeed a serious issue for the government.
Also, waiving off ‘transphobic ripostes’ doesn’t stop you actually being a transphobe. Be better
@@TrevorBarre I don't think you understood what the original comment is saying. At no point are they suggesting trans rights should be the core of all discussions. Just any discussion on trans and women rights. You came into this conversation in quite a hostile way Trev, take a step back and engage with people, hear them out and maybe you'll realize this minority issue is more of a culture war boogeyman that just needs to cool down. Trans people just want to exist. That really is it.
Transwomen are men
Wasn’t she a PIE lovey?
A great loss to british politics and the Labour Party.
She has had the BEST answer to transphobic argument from the self acclaimed "womens rights" activists
The way she spoke to JC on election night was despicable. Hope she enjoys the rest of her life in the lords.
Bo😊nbon b obo. Bo oo obbonno😅😊
Harman used to be on the left of the Party but now she’s very much establishment She made her peace with Blairism long ago
Fair to say she knows what side her bread is buttered
@@rainblaze. Oh yes, how terrible. Presumably you are so pure that you don't take butter with your bread? She realised that the left are more of a hindrance than a help. Trans issues being one obvious example.
Is this kind of cynicism helpful? I mean, establishment really needs a little less demonization and more nuance these days. Just because she has been around a while doesn't mean she deserves this nastiness. I mean, she is clearly further left than most of new labour on trans rights for one. I think we on the left seem to have a chronic problem with ousting every colleague who doesn't match our exact standard on every subject. Take progress where you can and people will be more open to further progress down the line. If you shun others for not being progressive enough all you really do is show you're not able to engage and you push the left further from being an accepted option for regular people. The stereotype of the left eating itself needs to be ended.
Harriet is great but there were a few things that just didn't make sense in that interview.
Like this comment? You could have given an example of 1 or 2 of the things that compelled you to write this insightful comment
I've got my money on which bit you didn't agree with and why you decided not to say it out loud.
@@thomasandrewclifford The whole transwomen are Men part? That part?
I have always admired Harriet Harman but I think she would benefit from a conversation with Helen Joyce. She might then think more deeply about the reasons some men claim to be women and the societal implications of protecting this belief without question. Does she understand the hidden dangers to women and children when legislation is put in place which gives advantage to certain men and makes others more vulnerable?
Some shocking revelations just 2 generations ago.