Am I the only one who actually enjoyed the story of nightmare in silver and Mr Clever? It added something new to the cybermen, made things more interesting to me! Yeah he didn’t act like much of one, but when you are using the body (and mind) of the Doctor you kind of expect things like that. He was overall a really fun character in my opinion!
I kinda liked Craig and his stories, the villain being the ship was kinda a let down but seeing the doctor trying to act as a normal human was entertaining
The villain was supposed to be the scilence in the end. I think either Moffat forgot to write it in or someone edited it out. Similar to how the daleks were the grand designers behind "max"
Iraxxa _isn’t_ the villain of the episode, though - Neville Catchlove is. If _that_ isn’t a good reason as to why she shouldn’t be on this list, then how about this; if she _was_ the villain of her story, she wouldn’t have been “pantomime-y” because she didn’t have much arrogance, she was clearly a competent thinker (out-strategising the British Army, who were arguably one of the most competent militaries of their time), _and_ she was far from 2-dimensional, showing respect for people who had earned it and both placing a great deal of importance on honour (not just military, but moral; she respected the Colonel’s insistence that his life be taken in exchange for his men) _and_ having, frankly, a gorgeous design. Just wanted to point that out.
Totally agree it was Neville and Victorian humans as villains, not iraxxa or the ice warriors, this story was fantastic so disagreed with who culture for once
Jack Robertson wasn't just an awful villain because of the heavy-handed political messaging. He was also terrible at being a villain. He simply wanted to shoot the giant, man-eating spiders for a quick death while The Doctor wanted to trap them so they'd slowly starve and suffocate. Chibnall's awful writing made The Doctor out to be a worse person than the supposed villain in the end.
You actually make a really good point with that last part. And I agree with the video saying that forcing the viewers to have to sit through watching a non-parody version of a current political figure isn't what I want to see when I'm trying to escape real life for a while.
I had a feeling The Wire would be on this list. But thing is... I kind of liked The Wire. The concept was silly enough to where you didn't HAVE to take it seriously for it to work. In fact, the less serious you take it, the better it works. It was just fun.
People had their faces removed and all the holes that they breathe through sealed up. But they still walked around instead of dying. That's something out of magic, not scf-fi.
Honestly, I'm not sure Jack Robinson really qualifies as a villain in a traditional Doctor Who sense. He's more of an asshole who's along for the ride who accidentally creates more trouble than he intended. I actually kinda like him in the "enjoy to hate" sense, and I do feel like that was the intent...
which is worse because in 'arachnids in the UK"(at least near the end) he was right about the spider, she would have starved it and its kin(not that it had much life left as it coudlnt breathe well) instead of the quick death, so it wouldnt suffer...of which the doctor was breaking the 'never CRUEL or cowardly rule of why he took the title Doctor
Personally I thought Jack Robinson was completely underwhelming. Dull in the first story and quite forgettable. When the character came back I didn't realise until I read a review
The thing that got more than one 'villain' on this list was the fact that the villain wasn't a villain at all - just a something out of the infinite number of somethings in time and space which had goals that unfortunately weren't "human compatible". The flat and the oil slick were among them. Personally I rather enjoy the creativity of episodes that were more vague - where there wasn't so much a villain as a complicated situation. Maybe they were executed well, maybe not, but I do enjoy the plot twist that those being opposed aren't "evil" or even misunderstood - they're just doing the thing they're supposed to do, and the best thing to do is to stay out of the way.
This is indeed well said, and is the reason some of my favorite episodes' villains weren't villains. The medical nanites in The Doctor Dances, the clockwork maintenance crew. I did like "Heather" as an antagonist (rather than a villain).
The sentient oil actually had me scared. An enemy you couldn't escape no matter what, and not even a Dalek could take down! Reminded me a little of the waters of Mars.
I couldnt find it scary cause they didnt explain it. It has power on par with the 2 most powerful species in the universe, and is never heard of before or after that moment and a bit when bill dies. It had me interested but it felt like they were just using the daleks as a punching bag, which comes off as disrespectful.
I doubt they meant it this way but I prefer to think that Krasko’s lack of depth is to show that there isn’t always a reason why someone is the way they are sometimes people are just bad people.
I loved Craig and Sophie and how chaotic the "normal" Doctors life still was lol I also liked how the wire looking like a "classy lady" lured you into a false sense of security. It was brilliant.
It was a really good concept, but you could definitely tell where the budget ran out. If it had more money, it could have been one of the best episodes of the series
Its hilarious to me that they said Victory of the Daleks (the worst episode of series 5) was better than Empress of Mars (a good episode in a series of good episodes). Showing once again how they have a passing knowledge of the show. Not to mention... Iraaxa wasn't even the fucking villain lmao
I'm not sure the Sentient Oil is a villain, so of course it's going to fail if you try to frame it as one. It's a puzzle to solve, a misunderstanding to clarify, a chance to challenge our prejudices and empathise for a change. Trying to make it a villain was the backbone of the episode's plot; the resolution was the realisation that this was a mistake.
I think the fact that I can't remember a lot of these villains is more a testimony to them being forgettable, throwaway, one-time "villains" rather than bad ones.
I disagree with The Lodger entry as I feel it was a worthy Doctor Who episode that was a hilarous worthy entry to Series 5. It felt like a wholesome episode with a few scares and was really satisfying seeing Eleven act as a human for a day.
The reason the cybermen weren’t as good in the Neil gaimen episode is because the writer had the story originally as a two parter but moffat made him cut it to a 1 part episode and this is why the episode isnt as complete
The length of the episode and even having the Cybermen were mistakes. Mr. Clever was supposed to show off Matt Smith's acting. The Cybermen were a distraction from Neil's idea for the episode as 11 fighting a cybernetic mirror of himself. Would have been better as a separate robotic species. Sadly, it also led to Neil not getting another chance to work with Peter Capaldi since Neverwhere.
79B is borderline a villain but also not. It's simply trying to get away and doesn't understand that people aren't strong enough. The harvesters are not a villain. No one lives on the planet, aside from the trees, and when they meet Marge, they confront her only because she's tresspassing Heather/The Pilot is not a villain. Her goal wasn't to kill or maim or anything like that. She just wanted Bill to join her, and we even see her come back in the finale and see she's definitely not a villain. Iraxxa may be pretty hostile, but she's far from the villain of the story. That goes to the one soldier who decides he wants to bury the Ice Warriors in rock. Once he dies, both the Ice Warriors and the remaining humans work together, with Iraxxa at the head, who even spares the life of one of the soldiers when eh says he accepts her taking his life. This doesn't mean they're all good, but I definitely don't see those examples as villans and therefore don't see them fitting for this list. (Plus I do like Iraxxa)
I will whole heartedly agree that the flat upstairs isn't that good of a villain but not that the lodger isn't good. The journey is the destination my dude.
That's one of several episodes on the list which were great if you ignore the last five minutes. Such as Love and Monsters. Corden's other episode also ended with love conquering all. Or at least Cybermen.
I genuinely enjoyed Nightmare in Silver (You didn't even mention Warwick Davis' appearance) and thought Mr. Clever represented an interesting take on the Cybermen that slightly echoed the transformation of John Lumic in the second series episode The Age of Steel in 2007. While his transformation was more traditional, he still had his human mind and emotions. Mr. Clever was inside the Doctor's head and tapped into his thoughts and emotions, so it makes sense that he changed like that. Since Cybermen don't have individuality, there was nothing for the Doctor's influence to override or combat, it just became a part of Mr. Clever. I agree with the other 7 pre-Jodie villains, though. I haven't seen Jodie's series yet, so I can't comment until I do but it sounds like those two were pretty awful.
I see it, as emotions are suppressed by the emotional inhibitor, which in this new form of conversion (by nanotechnology) is created later within the body, as the Cyber thingy was still fighting the Doctor over control, it hasn't created the inhibitor yet, so emotions were still in play.
Especialy since Mr Clever was a Cybercontroler, a Cyberman with the purpose to think of new startegies, not a regular drone. Such Cyberman would require the capability of thinking creativly, witch would require at least some emotions.
I like the concept behind The Ghost Ship. A flawed machine that just keeps futiling trying to escape. The Harvest Rangers, sentient oil and Iraxxa shouldn't be called villains they're antagonists. They're in the way but have no real sense of malice. I think Nightmare in Silver needed to be a 2 parter. That way the Cybermen should have had more paced. I think Krasko should've been either been absent from the story or tied into the Time Agency. And out of all the episodes i have bitter memories of (In the Forest of the Night, Creature from the Pit, the entirety of Series 11) Empress of Mars isn't one worth it. I enjoy it for the nostalgia.
With the into the forest night it is a interesting concept and i still enjoy it however i think it's just more suited to Smith's era due to the fairy tail aspect and more could of been done with the animals. the wolfs and tigers. However i only think sleep no more and the into forest of the night are the weakest of 12's era but defientley not the weakest with all who stories
Not only was Krasko a TERRIBLE villain, he wasn't even necessary to the plot. The only villainy thing he even did was destroy the bus that was supposed to pick up Rosa - and that coulda just been passed off as engine problems. Thank you Chris Chibnall for being the worst Doctor Who showrunner ever. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out! Cheers....
Some "villains" on this list are not really villains, they are just overreacting (like the puddle). Also, why is this list only showing us villains from Nuwho?
@@jamesstarrbarker sorry not even close the classic doctors could out act and out story tell ANY of the modern doctors, though 12th feels like a classic doctor!
Hot Takes Incoming - - Give them a couple more episodes and we'd have to put the Weeping Angels on this list. They've been going downhill ever since the audience could see them move. - The Boneless deserve another episode, but they could still go either way including getting a spot on this list.
Oddly enough, I found the sentient oil and the second story of the house eps quite enjoyable. I'd actually like to see the oil creature(s) show up again in a different context. And what is it with semi-sentient ships losing their pilots? Mme. de Pompadour, the second story of the house, the oil ... somehow those seem to be related, and I'd love to see an ep that tied them all together.
Congrats to Chibbs for having the top 2 villains on this list! Putting subtle political ideas into popular entertainment is one thing but being so heavy handed ruins the escapism that a lot of people watch shows like Dr Who for. Not to mention Rosa Parks real life story is too serious and important to involve a time traveling alien.
It also felt so out of place. He didn't feel like a character from the future; he was so focused on one specific historical event that's relevant to us now, but I'm not sure it will be as remembered centuries from now. As important and serious as it was, events tend to fade and become treated with a sort of apathy as time goes on. We're far more passionate about the civil rights movement than the original importation of slaves, because it's more tangible to us. And this event doesn't feel like it would carry the same weight as time goes on. If Krasco simply wanted to alter a fixed point to create chaos or some specific outcome unrelated to modern race politics, that would be fine. But I have the feeling that race politics won't be nearly as important 32 hundred years from now, when there are aliens. Prejudice tends to favor the most different. Hatred for specific towns are eclipsed by hate of countries, which are eclipsed by hate of ethnic groups, and so on. Just like the differences between what city you are from is basically trivial in our global world, so will race be in a world with FLOATING EYEBALL MEN and SENTIENT FISH!!!!
I don't know if subtlety per se matters depending upon the writer. Pertwee's and Baker's runs had political messages that weren't subtle at all. Chibnall is just clumsy at it.
The Rosa episode absolutely did not need a "villain" made flesh. Racism and blind hatred are more than enough villain without Assko. Including that character only made the message about our future sad and bleak. Centuries later, people are still going to be small-minded racists? That is a dark outlook.
I always felt that they could have made Krasko more interesting by changing him slightly so that Rosa wasn't the first person he did this to. Like the history of civil rights, Rosa Parks wasn't the first person to protest the way she did... so like maybe have Krasko be on his 13th time trying to kill a person who sparked a movement and removing them from history... only for him to go back and realize things haven't changed cuz its not one person in a movement... so have him become obsessed with finding the right person to remove and him trying to guess the butterfly effects of everything... would make him more dangerous and add more depth cuz he is slowly realizing its not a single person.
I like that this list demonstrates that it’s never the political message that makes a bad episode-political or not, either way if you have good writing, it’s a good episode; bad writing, it’s a bad episode. I also appreciate you pointing out that Who has always been political.
Not always, more like has been several times in the past, the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Doctor eras barely had any politics and the 2nd Doctor era is probably the best era of them all in my opinion, so you don't need politics to make a good story, but like you said politics don't make stories bad unless they are executed really poorly (or are just a really bad take)
@@rockotarsoldaccount I feel like this is a teeeeny bit pedantic? The last time period you mention was 37 years ago, with plenty of relevant periods peppered throughout prior to that as well. While it demonstrates that you personally have a lot of knowledge of classic Who, it really doesn’t feel worth a “well, actually” correction.
@@422katieleigh well your (and many other people's similar comments) kinda make it sound like every previous Doctor had like 7+ political stories, so I just wanted to make sure that if someone reads your comment and assumes this they'll see my reply and notice that that isn't actually the case, I suppose it's a stupid reason but it's not like I'm doing any harm right?
@@rockotarsoldaccount The harm is that pedantry is universally annoying and condescending and responding to broad statements in an overly literal way makes people feel like you’re insulting their knowledge and intelligence while showing off your own.
@@422katieleigh sorry, I never intended that, I always make sure to state everything extremely clearly because so many times throughout my life I have said something in a simple way and people didn't understand what I was saying so I had to explain in excruciating detail, (exactly what I'm doing right now) because of all these instances I almost never say a simple sentence, i always explain everything in a way that no one except a complete imbecile (!NOT REFERRING TO YOU!) can understand
@@thechillindude4478 it didnt need the monster, depression is a monster all by itself, it could have had Vincent just IMAGINING it and it would have worked just as well. Dr Who has been doing historicals since its very beginning, and they worked very well as pure historicals!!
@@thechillindude4478 Unicorn and the Wasp was terrible, almost all the jokes were lame and not funny, the giant wasp was embarrassingly bad, and all the side characters except Agatha Christie were awful! (IMO)
Sadly, this is a video where I can respect the opinions, but I am mostly on the other side as some of these are my favourite episodes. The Lodger, Nightmare in Silver and Empress of Mars are three of my personal favourite episodes.
I think the ‘monster of the week’ storylines are quite hard to keep up to the same level as the major villains who we see more often and can develop their characters as they go - I think doctor who forgets it doesn’t have to always have a villain but can just explore different historical periods and planets
I kind of liked how laughably slimy Robertson was at the end of the dalek story when he blatantly lies to the doctor about only pretending about wanting to work with the daleks, and he gets away with it 😆
Apparently it was supposed to be the scilence trying to build a tardis. Why I'm not too sure. Maybe a "here use this one instead because yours in gonna explode and end the universe". I think someone forgot to tie it all in.
@@kilobravo3533 also during the episode the lodger you amy does appear to keep seeing someone inside the tardis, but then carrys on talking to the doctor as if nothings happened.
For me, I feel like The Queen of the Skithra from “Nikola Tesla’s Night of Terror” would be one on my personal list. She just sort of hisses and threatens everyone and there’s no explanation or acknowledgment of how different she looks from the glowing scorpion boys (maybe there is…). I liked this episode pretty well, but she and her clumsy scorpion boys just sort of don’t do it at all.
how about the stupidity that was Hydroflax, who literally created an empire but was Brain dead(pun intended) when they had to interact with hm and was nowhere near as menacing as he could have been
Hey Sean the Gaiman episode was taken out of his hands. and rewritten/mucked around with so much that he vowed he wouldn't write another episode for the current run. hoepfully that will change but seeing the way Cibnall is going i'm not sure. so you can't entirely blame Gaiman for this. apparently his original sscript was a lot better and very differnt
Agreed, Krasko is absolutely terrible. Especially considering that many other DW episodes hint at human racism being gone by Krasko's time (Bill telling a blue, but otherwise human-like alien that she experiences racism as well and him not understanding) Krasko being so far in the future and being racist doesn't make sense lore-wise and it isn't explained other than he was in prison but that's pretty much useless when we find out he has had his memory erased. DW has dealt with a lot of politics, but not so outright and obvious, especially with recent and notable historical people. It just seems wrong and disrespectful to insert DW into such a historical and impactful moment for black people. It'd be like saying The Doctor threw the first brick at Stonewall or something or The Doctor talked with Marsha P. Johnson and helped her riot.
I feel sorry for the kid (and his family) who submitted the Abzorbaloff character concept. As bad as the episode was, the end 'joke' was in really bad taste that takes it into adult territory.
Honestly the wire used to scare the shit out of me when I was younger for some reason. I just couldn't watch it. Got past it when I got older but still. Really just used to creep me out.
I'm one of the few who enjoyed Idiot's Lantern and Nightmare in Silver! So I'd swap out The Wire for Charlie Duffy from Kerblam and Mr Clever with Max Capricorn from Voyage of the Damned (I liked the episode just not the villain) or the Ribbons from the Ghost Monument
Half of these villains are actually great! I especially love Mr. Clever in Nightmare in Silver. It’s a solid episode. Unfortunately it is dragged down by some cheesy dialogue and obnoxious side characters (the kids and even porridge are completely unlikeable characters made even worse with pretty terrible acting). So it’s kept from being one of the greats but it is still a really good episode.
They should've made Simon Pegg the primary antagonist of the episode instead of the Jagrafess. It's a shame, they got such an amazing actor, then made him a simple henchman and gave him little to work with.
I was always surprised by the Rosa Parks episode simply because it is one of the only Dr. Who episodes that I know of that has nothing to do with anything in the UK really, in the modern history anyway.
Strange Alien #1: Oh look. I found an immortal, all powerful, sentient ooze. What should we do with it. Strange Alien #2: Have you considered turning into rocket fuel? Strange Alien #1: Makes sense...
Honestly the teeth guy from 13th doctor first episode (can’t remember his name) deserves to be on this list. I just cringed every time he came on the screen. Yuck… replace Mr Clever with him.
Gonna have to agree with the Lodger villain, build up made me thing it was going to be a shapeshifting monster that would be a two parter villain, playing mind tricks with the Doctor…
The only good thing that Love & Monsters did for me was give me a prime opportunity for a multi-layered pun, at one point in time. The premise was that someone was jokingly asking if anyone would like to play Pai Sho with Iroh, and I answered that "Mr. Teatime would like to play using his Myrtle tile." They cracked up harder than the Abzorbaloff's backside.
The way I saw it with Mr Clever in Nightmare in Silver, is that he couldn’t actually feel emotion. But, he could replicate it as a form of deception as with Clara, as well as a form of instigation with the Doctor. Granted, it didn’t work on Clara over the detonator, but the Doctor had moments of being flared up as Mr Clever kept on.
I liked the Ice Warriors. I thought it was a decent episode with a very nice treat at the end. I LOATHE Krasko and Jack Robinson. It was those two villains, one after the other, that made me start to realize Doctor Who was no longer the show I loved.
I feel like a Cyber-Planner should have emotions, even being a Cyberman. It seems kind of beneficial for an ultra intelligent machina to have emotion so that it can better predict how other organisms act and think.
Mr. Clever was too much of a rehashing of the Star Trek: Next Gen gag where Picard is captured by the Borg, and transformed into Locutus for my tastes. Wasn’t actually found of the Next Gen version either.
The Idiot's Lantern is the Doctor Who episode I quote the most....unfortunately, that just boils down to yelling "Hungry!" at people
And to be fair, one was probably already doing it before watching the episode.
😂
They didnt have any faces
The Wire was actually kind of creepy until she started yelling "HUNGRYYYYY"
I AM TAWLKING!!!!!!!!!
Am I the only one who actually enjoyed the story of nightmare in silver and Mr Clever? It added something new to the cybermen, made things more interesting to me! Yeah he didn’t act like much of one, but when you are using the body (and mind) of the Doctor you kind of expect things like that. He was overall a really fun character in my opinion!
I like the episode a great deal!
Me too, I've seen it only twice, but I had a great time!
One of my favorites actually, I was baffled to see it on here
How sad is it that I only remember the chessboard from that episode?
I liked him, too. Was going to try defending Mr Clever, but I was too busy ranting about how cool Iraxxa was
I kinda liked Craig and his stories, the villain being the ship was kinda a let down but seeing the doctor trying to act as a normal human was entertaining
The villain was supposed to be the scilence in the end. I think either Moffat forgot to write it in or someone edited it out. Similar to how the daleks were the grand designers behind "max"
I agree
I find James corden hard to enjoy
I like how it ties into the impossible astronaut, abandoned silence ship calling out for a pilot to take it off planet.
@@obiwankenobi687 Was it a Silent's ship? I vaguely recall the Doctor calling it a TARDIS, hence why it looks like a flat on the outside.
Iraxxa _isn’t_ the villain of the episode, though - Neville Catchlove is. If _that_ isn’t a good reason as to why she shouldn’t be on this list, then how about this; if she _was_ the villain of her story, she wouldn’t have been “pantomime-y” because she didn’t have much arrogance, she was clearly a competent thinker (out-strategising the British Army, who were arguably one of the most competent militaries of their time), _and_ she was far from 2-dimensional, showing respect for people who had earned it and both placing a great deal of importance on honour (not just military, but moral; she respected the Colonel’s insistence that his life be taken in exchange for his men) _and_ having, frankly, a gorgeous design. Just wanted to point that out.
Totally agree it was Neville and Victorian humans as villains, not iraxxa or the ice warriors, this story was fantastic so disagreed with who culture for once
Yeah I honestly really enjoyed that episode. Nothing spectacular by any means thought it was a pretty good episode though.
TH-camr makes a list to say how terrible something is
@@mpdalyful1 um… no offence meant (in case any is taken), but what do you mean..?
@@mpdalyful1 I know it's nearly been a year, but would you care to finish this thought?
Jack Robertson wasn't just an awful villain because of the heavy-handed political messaging. He was also terrible at being a villain. He simply wanted to shoot the giant, man-eating spiders for a quick death while The Doctor wanted to trap them so they'd slowly starve and suffocate. Chibnall's awful writing made The Doctor out to be a worse person than the supposed villain in the end.
You actually make a really good point with that last part. And I agree with the video saying that forcing the viewers to have to sit through watching a non-parody version of a current political figure isn't what I want to see when I'm trying to escape real life for a while.
I had a feeling The Wire would be on this list. But thing is... I kind of liked The Wire. The concept was silly enough to where you didn't HAVE to take it seriously for it to work. In fact, the less serious you take it, the better it works. It was just fun.
It's typical Dr Who. I loved Maureen Lipman's performance in it. To be fair, she did everything that she could with the script!
I loved her performance and hoped she'd return.
People had their faces removed and all the holes that they breathe through sealed up. But they still walked around instead of dying. That's something out of magic, not scf-fi.
Honestly, I'm not sure Jack Robinson really qualifies as a villain in a traditional Doctor Who sense. He's more of an asshole who's along for the ride who accidentally creates more trouble than he intended. I actually kinda like him in the "enjoy to hate" sense, and I do feel like that was the intent...
which is worse because in 'arachnids in the UK"(at least near the end) he was right about the spider, she would have starved it and its kin(not that it had much life left as it coudlnt breathe well) instead of the quick death, so it wouldnt suffer...of which the doctor was breaking the 'never CRUEL or cowardly rule of why he took the title Doctor
Personally I thought Jack Robinson was completely underwhelming. Dull in the first story and quite forgettable. When the character came back I didn't realise until I read a review
He's also right too. He shoots the spider and puts it out of its misery, the Doctor is willing to let them suffocate painfully.
Shawn: 10 Worst Doctor Who Villains
You already know Absorbaloff is on the list
he shouldnt be
@@Raftors really shouldn’t
@@Raftors ok this is the second comment/reply I’ve seen from you, I’m now going to reply to all of your that I find!
@@JDT-Loadsamoney good luck
@@Raftors and another one
The thing that got more than one 'villain' on this list was the fact that the villain wasn't a villain at all - just a something out of the infinite number of somethings in time and space which had goals that unfortunately weren't "human compatible". The flat and the oil slick were among them.
Personally I rather enjoy the creativity of episodes that were more vague - where there wasn't so much a villain as a complicated situation. Maybe they were executed well, maybe not, but I do enjoy the plot twist that those being opposed aren't "evil" or even misunderstood - they're just doing the thing they're supposed to do, and the best thing to do is to stay out of the way.
Absolutely!! Well said...!!
This is indeed well said, and is the reason some of my favorite episodes' villains weren't villains. The medical nanites in The Doctor Dances, the clockwork maintenance crew. I did like "Heather" as an antagonist (rather than a villain).
The sentient oil actually had me scared. An enemy you couldn't escape no matter what, and not even a Dalek could take down! Reminded me a little of the waters of Mars.
i thought it was 'sentient' water, though i think the water itself was more like a tardis/vessel than a being by itself
I couldnt find it scary cause they didnt explain it. It has power on par with the 2 most powerful species in the universe, and is never heard of before or after that moment and a bit when bill dies. It had me interested but it felt like they were just using the daleks as a punching bag, which comes off as disrespectful.
I doubt they meant it this way but I prefer to think that Krasko’s lack of depth is to show that there isn’t always a reason why someone is the way they are sometimes people are just bad people.
I loved Craig and Sophie and how chaotic the "normal" Doctors life still was lol
I also liked how the wire looking like a "classy lady" lured you into a false sense of security. It was brilliant.
I liked Empress of Mars tho. It was probably one of the more decent episodes of Capaldi's run for me.
No
It was a really good concept, but you could definitely tell where the budget ran out. If it had more money, it could have been one of the best episodes of the series
Its hilarious to me that they said Victory of the Daleks (the worst episode of series 5) was better than Empress of Mars (a good episode in a series of good episodes). Showing once again how they have a passing knowledge of the show. Not to mention... Iraaxa wasn't even the fucking villain lmao
@@evildeathcuddles886 I didn't mind Victory of the Daleks either.
He, it was ok but I can see why people dislike it and it did have more poetential
I'm not sure the Sentient Oil is a villain, so of course it's going to fail if you try to frame it as one. It's a puzzle to solve, a misunderstanding to clarify, a chance to challenge our prejudices and empathise for a change. Trying to make it a villain was the backbone of the episode's plot; the resolution was the realisation that this was a mistake.
You are ablutly right.. Most of them aren't even villain but antagonist.
I think the fact that I can't remember a lot of these villains is more a testimony to them being forgettable, throwaway, one-time "villains" rather than bad ones.
I disagree with The Lodger entry as I feel it was a worthy Doctor Who episode that was a hilarous worthy entry to Series 5. It felt like a wholesome episode with a few scares and was really satisfying seeing Eleven act as a human for a day.
Agreed
I Agree especially after the Heavy Episode, *Dealing with Depression and Suicide* Vincent and the Doctor, it needed to be lighter in Ever way!!!
I think that episodes fun but I always forget the ending. The sequel to it in the next season I didn't like though.
Honestly, the Wire reminded me of Audrey from Little Shop of Horrors.
"Feed me, Magpie! Feed me now!" 📺
I'm a little surprised that The Egg from "Kill The Moon" wasn't on this list. It was as much a villain as the oil slick or 79B, and pretty ridiculous.
The reason the cybermen weren’t as good in the Neil gaimen episode is because the writer had the story originally as a two parter but moffat made him cut it to a 1 part episode and this is why the episode isnt as complete
Thank you!!! I wish more people knew this. Neil Gaiman is amazing and it sucks that some people really think nightmare in silver was his fault.
The length of the episode and even having the Cybermen were mistakes. Mr. Clever was supposed to show off Matt Smith's acting. The Cybermen were a distraction from Neil's idea for the episode as 11 fighting a cybernetic mirror of himself. Would have been better as a separate robotic species. Sadly, it also led to Neil not getting another chance to work with Peter Capaldi since Neverwhere.
I like it anyway
79B is borderline a villain but also not. It's simply trying to get away and doesn't understand that people aren't strong enough.
The harvesters are not a villain. No one lives on the planet, aside from the trees, and when they meet Marge, they confront her only because she's tresspassing
Heather/The Pilot is not a villain. Her goal wasn't to kill or maim or anything like that. She just wanted Bill to join her, and we even see her come back in the finale and see she's definitely not a villain.
Iraxxa may be pretty hostile, but she's far from the villain of the story. That goes to the one soldier who decides he wants to bury the Ice Warriors in rock. Once he dies, both the Ice Warriors and the remaining humans work together, with Iraxxa at the head, who even spares the life of one of the soldiers when eh says he accepts her taking his life.
This doesn't mean they're all good, but I definitely don't see those examples as villans and therefore don't see them fitting for this list. (Plus I do like Iraxxa)
I will whole heartedly agree that the flat upstairs isn't that good of a villain but not that the lodger isn't good. The journey is the destination my dude.
The whole point to the story is them realizing their love for eachother with the help of the Doctor.
That's one of several episodes on the list which were great if you ignore the last five minutes. Such as Love and Monsters. Corden's other episode also ended with love conquering all. Or at least Cybermen.
Nothing will be stupider than the episode where sleep dust attacked.
I genuinely enjoyed Nightmare in Silver (You didn't even mention Warwick Davis' appearance) and thought Mr. Clever represented an interesting take on the Cybermen that slightly echoed the transformation of John Lumic in the second series episode The Age of Steel in 2007. While his transformation was more traditional, he still had his human mind and emotions. Mr. Clever was inside the Doctor's head and tapped into his thoughts and emotions, so it makes sense that he changed like that. Since Cybermen don't have individuality, there was nothing for the Doctor's influence to override or combat, it just became a part of Mr. Clever.
I agree with the other 7 pre-Jodie villains, though. I haven't seen Jodie's series yet, so I can't comment until I do but it sounds like those two were pretty awful.
I see it, as emotions are suppressed by the emotional inhibitor, which in this new form of conversion (by nanotechnology) is created later within the body, as the Cyber thingy was still fighting the Doctor over control, it hasn't created the inhibitor yet, so emotions were still in play.
Especialy since Mr Clever was a Cybercontroler, a Cyberman with the purpose to think of new startegies, not a regular drone. Such Cyberman would require the capability of thinking creativly, witch would require at least some emotions.
I like the concept behind The Ghost Ship. A flawed machine that just keeps futiling trying to escape.
The Harvest Rangers, sentient oil and Iraxxa shouldn't be called villains they're antagonists. They're in the way but have no real sense of malice.
I think Nightmare in Silver needed to be a 2 parter. That way the Cybermen should have had more paced.
I think Krasko should've been either been absent from the story or tied into the Time Agency.
And out of all the episodes i have bitter memories of (In the Forest of the Night, Creature from the Pit, the entirety of Series 11) Empress of Mars isn't one worth it. I enjoy it for the nostalgia.
With the into the forest night it is a interesting concept and i still enjoy it however i think it's just more suited to Smith's era due to the fairy tail aspect and more could of been done with the animals. the wolfs and tigers. However i only think sleep no more and the into forest of the night are the weakest of 12's era but defientley not the weakest with all who stories
Sorry, but the eleventh doctor was a legend. WEIRD IS GOOD.
@Kyle Dodge Not a universally agreed upon opinion.
And BOWTIES are COOL
Weird can be good can be bad
Fish fingers and custard
Not only was Krasko a TERRIBLE villain, he wasn't even necessary to the plot. The only villainy thing he even did was destroy the bus that was supposed to pick up Rosa - and that coulda just been passed off as engine problems. Thank you Chris Chibnall for being the worst Doctor Who showrunner ever. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out! Cheers....
Some "villains" on this list are not really villains, they are just overreacting (like the puddle). Also, why is this list only showing us villains from Nuwho?
This channel is almost all New Who. There's only like 5 lists that have OG stuff
We could have so much fun with Classic Who though to be honest lol
Nuwho = bestwho
@@jamesstarrbarker sorry not even close the classic doctors could out act and out story tell ANY of the modern doctors, though 12th feels like a classic doctor!
Hot Takes Incoming -
- Give them a couple more episodes and we'd have to put the Weeping Angels on this list. They've been going downhill ever since the audience could see them move.
- The Boneless deserve another episode, but they could still go either way including getting a spot on this list.
Oddly enough, I found the sentient oil and the second story of the house eps quite enjoyable. I'd actually like to see the oil creature(s) show up again in a different context. And what is it with semi-sentient ships losing their pilots? Mme. de Pompadour, the second story of the house, the oil ... somehow those seem to be related, and I'd love to see an ep that tied them all together.
The one from The Pilot is not actually a villain
Actually come to think of it ur right
Ikr
Neither is the ones from The Lodger or Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe.
Congrats to Chibbs for having the top 2 villains on this list! Putting subtle political ideas into popular entertainment is one thing but being so heavy handed ruins the escapism that a lot of people watch shows like Dr Who for. Not to mention Rosa Parks real life story is too serious and important to involve a time traveling alien.
It also felt so out of place. He didn't feel like a character from the future; he was so focused on one specific historical event that's relevant to us now, but I'm not sure it will be as remembered centuries from now. As important and serious as it was, events tend to fade and become treated with a sort of apathy as time goes on. We're far more passionate about the civil rights movement than the original importation of slaves, because it's more tangible to us. And this event doesn't feel like it would carry the same weight as time goes on. If Krasco simply wanted to alter a fixed point to create chaos or some specific outcome unrelated to modern race politics, that would be fine. But I have the feeling that race politics won't be nearly as important 32 hundred years from now, when there are aliens. Prejudice tends to favor the most different. Hatred for specific towns are eclipsed by hate of countries, which are eclipsed by hate of ethnic groups, and so on. Just like the differences between what city you are from is basically trivial in our global world, so will race be in a world with FLOATING EYEBALL MEN and SENTIENT FISH!!!!
I don't know if subtlety per se matters depending upon the writer. Pertwee's and Baker's runs had political messages that weren't subtle at all. Chibnall is just clumsy at it.
@@gabrielcarter4822 exactly!
If I was a evil time traveling racist
I would of went after the mlk civil rights movement or the civil war
Not Rosa parks
The Rosa episode absolutely did not need a "villain" made flesh. Racism and blind hatred are more than enough villain without Assko.
Including that character only made the message about our future sad and bleak. Centuries later, people are still going to be small-minded racists? That is a dark outlook.
I forgot that the last three villains even existed. 😂
I always felt that they could have made Krasko more interesting by changing him slightly so that Rosa wasn't the first person he did this to. Like the history of civil rights, Rosa Parks wasn't the first person to protest the way she did... so like maybe have Krasko be on his 13th time trying to kill a person who sparked a movement and removing them from history... only for him to go back and realize things haven't changed cuz its not one person in a movement... so have him become obsessed with finding the right person to remove and him trying to guess the butterfly effects of everything... would make him more dangerous and add more depth cuz he is slowly realizing its not a single person.
I like that this list demonstrates that it’s never the political message that makes a bad episode-political or not, either way if you have good writing, it’s a good episode; bad writing, it’s a bad episode. I also appreciate you pointing out that Who has always been political.
Not always, more like has been several times in the past, the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Doctor eras barely had any politics and the 2nd Doctor era is probably the best era of them all in my opinion, so you don't need politics to make a good story, but like you said politics don't make stories bad unless they are executed really poorly (or are just a really bad take)
@@rockotarsoldaccount I feel like this is a teeeeny bit pedantic? The last time period you mention was 37 years ago, with plenty of relevant periods peppered throughout prior to that as well. While it demonstrates that you personally have a lot of knowledge of classic Who, it really doesn’t feel worth a “well, actually” correction.
@@422katieleigh well your (and many other people's similar comments) kinda make it sound like every previous Doctor had like 7+ political stories, so I just wanted to make sure that if someone reads your comment and assumes this they'll see my reply and notice that that isn't actually the case, I suppose it's a stupid reason but it's not like I'm doing any harm right?
@@rockotarsoldaccount The harm is that pedantry is universally annoying and condescending and responding to broad statements in an overly literal way makes people feel like you’re insulting their knowledge and intelligence while showing off your own.
@@422katieleigh sorry, I never intended that, I always make sure to state everything extremely clearly because so many times throughout my life I have said something in a simple way and people didn't understand what I was saying so I had to explain in excruciating detail, (exactly what I'm doing right now) because of all these instances I almost never say a simple sentence, i always explain everything in a way that no one except a complete imbecile (!NOT REFERRING TO YOU!) can understand
I know this is mostly based in NuWho, but have you seen the Kandyman of Happiness Patrol?
Rosa should have bien a pure historical with no sci-fi elements
Similar to the vincent and the doctor where the scifi element (well the monster anyway) is the worst part
@@thechillindude4478 it didnt need the monster, depression is a monster all by itself, it could have had Vincent just IMAGINING it and it would have worked just as well. Dr Who has been doing historicals since its very beginning, and they worked very well as pure historicals!!
@@thechillindude4478 and the agatha cristie episode
@@omegagamer4124 I didn't really mind that one. Everything about it was a lot of fun
@@thechillindude4478 Unicorn and the Wasp was terrible, almost all the jokes were lame and not funny, the giant wasp was embarrassingly bad, and all the side characters except Agatha Christie were awful! (IMO)
Everything you said about Mr. Clever is what I find wrong with the Lone Cyberman (I can't remember his name)
At least now we know what happened to Moaning Myrtle
8:56 I always thought Gaiman rips off the Borg from Star Trek in his treatment of the Cybermen.
Can u make a vid were you rank all dr who logos please
Yes that sounds good do that please
Sadly, this is a video where I can respect the opinions, but I am mostly on the other side as some of these are my favourite episodes.
The Lodger, Nightmare in Silver and Empress of Mars are three of my personal favourite episodes.
I think the ‘monster of the week’ storylines are quite hard to keep up to the same level as the major villains who we see more often and can develop their characters as they go - I think doctor who forgets it doesn’t have to always have a villain but can just explore different historical periods and planets
I kind of liked how laughably slimy Robertson was at the end of the dalek story when he blatantly lies to the doctor about only pretending about wanting to work with the daleks, and he gets away with it 😆
The sentient oil was not a villain. It was merely a misunderstood girl that wanted her lover back.
I'm convinced that 79B Aickman Road was really the Master's TARDIS.
Apparently it was supposed to be the scilence trying to build a tardis. Why I'm not too sure. Maybe a "here use this one instead because yours in gonna explode and end the universe". I think someone forgot to tie it all in.
@@k.stewart007 maybe the silence were there they just forgot they were there
@@k.stewart007 the same interior was used in the s6 opener when they rescue Amy.
@@kilobravo3533 also during the episode the lodger you amy does appear to keep seeing someone inside the tardis, but then carrys on talking to the doctor as if nothings happened.
@@omegagamer4124 maybe we forgot.
The lodger is one of my favorite episodes. Seen it loads. Idk. It's just nice to watch haha
For me, I feel like The Queen of the Skithra from “Nikola Tesla’s Night of Terror” would be one on my personal list. She just sort of hisses and threatens everyone and there’s no explanation or acknowledgment of how different she looks from the glowing scorpion boys (maybe there is…). I liked this episode pretty well, but she and her clumsy scorpion boys just sort of don’t do it at all.
Chibnall's entire run of new villains can make it on to this list to some degree
how about the stupidity that was Hydroflax, who literally created an empire but was Brain dead(pun intended) when they had to interact with hm and was nowhere near as menacing as he could have been
Hey Sean
the Gaiman episode was taken out of his hands. and rewritten/mucked around with so much that he vowed he wouldn't write another episode for the current run.
hoepfully that will change but seeing the way Cibnall is going i'm not sure. so you can't entirely blame Gaiman for this. apparently his original sscript was a lot better and very differnt
Agreed, Krasko is absolutely terrible. Especially considering that many other DW episodes hint at human racism being gone by Krasko's time (Bill telling a blue, but otherwise human-like alien that she experiences racism as well and him not understanding)
Krasko being so far in the future and being racist doesn't make sense lore-wise and it isn't explained other than he was in prison but that's pretty much useless when we find out he has had his memory erased.
DW has dealt with a lot of politics, but not so outright and obvious, especially with recent and notable historical people. It just seems wrong and disrespectful to insert DW into such a historical and impactful moment for black people. It'd be like saying The Doctor threw the first brick at Stonewall or something or The Doctor talked with Marsha P. Johnson and helped her riot.
The Harvest Rangers look like knock-off Space Marines
So I’ve found that some of the worst episodes of doctor who tend to be when writers try to top the people or episodes that came before them
If I recall there was a theory that the oil is from the TARDIS itself just before it dies
I feel sorry for the kid (and his family) who submitted the Abzorbaloff character concept. As bad as the episode was, the end 'joke' was in really bad taste that takes it into adult territory.
Some “villains” weren’t even villains which was the point about things not being black & white
Ngl the lodger is cool. U don’t need a cool villain it’s about the Doctor being somewhere he actually has to stay.
Honestly the wire used to scare the shit out of me when I was younger for some reason. I just couldn't watch it. Got past it when I got older but still. Really just used to creep me out.
"I'm not buying it" referring to a mutant blob installed by daleks. What's there not to buy
I'm one of the few who enjoyed Idiot's Lantern and Nightmare in Silver! So I'd swap out The Wire for Charlie Duffy from Kerblam and Mr Clever with Max Capricorn from Voyage of the Damned (I liked the episode just not the villain) or the Ribbons from the Ghost Monument
Half of these villains are actually great! I especially love Mr. Clever in Nightmare in Silver. It’s a solid episode. Unfortunately it is dragged down by some cheesy dialogue and obnoxious side characters (the kids and even porridge are completely unlikeable characters made even worse with pretty terrible acting). So it’s kept from being one of the greats but it is still a really good episode.
Now we have a new worst villian mistro
I like Jack Robinson.... and he never struck me as making fun of Trump. He just felt like that one corrupted person... not Trump...
I literally forgot that Empress of Mars even existed.
Why is it called "the idiots lantern"?
Tbh I feel like most enemies in Series 11 and 12 could have been featured here over the ones you chose.
I have forgot about most of these villains 😅
They should've made Simon Pegg the primary antagonist of the episode instead of the Jagrafess. It's a shame, they got such an amazing actor, then made him a simple henchman and gave him little to work with.
I was always surprised by the Rosa Parks episode simply because it is one of the only Dr. Who episodes that I know of that has nothing to do with anything in the UK really, in the modern history anyway.
Man, thanks for mentioning The Wire. That story was great but the actress annoys the piss out of me.
I haven't watched the video yet but I've just seen the thumbnail and NO, you do NOT disrespect my puddle!!
I really enjoyed Mr. Clever, I even cosplayed him a lot, but I can see why others might dislike the dude
Everyone just knew that abzorbaloff would be on there
unfortunately
@@Raftors well the episode its self isn't liked that much. So that didnt help to make the villain in it look good
@@Raftors ye
Strange Alien #1: Oh look. I found an immortal, all powerful, sentient ooze. What should we do with it.
Strange Alien #2: Have you considered turning into rocket fuel?
Strange Alien #1: Makes sense...
Doctor Who special effects department must have been so relieved when blue LEDs were invented. They...were...EVERYWHERE!
I couldn’t dislike/disagree with this list any harder.
I don’t remember Empress of Mars being that bad.
Honestly the teeth guy from 13th doctor first episode (can’t remember his name) deserves to be on this list. I just cringed every time he came on the screen. Yuck… replace Mr Clever with him.
Man, Krasko legitimately had no discernable reason for latching onto the events of Rosa Parks.
quite surprised the isolus isnt here
It's not a villain. Granted, neither is Iraaxa, or the rangers.
Gonna have to agree with the Lodger villain, build up made me thing it was going to be a shapeshifting monster that would be a two parter villain, playing mind tricks with the Doctor…
The only good thing that Love & Monsters did for me was give me a prime opportunity for a multi-layered pun, at one point in time. The premise was that someone was jokingly asking if anyone would like to play Pai Sho with Iroh, and I answered that "Mr. Teatime would like to play using his Myrtle tile." They cracked up harder than the Abzorbaloff's backside.
Bro, The Empress of Mars was very good episode for me
Same, I loved it
I don’t think modern writers would even get the villains right because they don’t know how it works in the minds at first
Gloop Gloop I’m Abzorbaloff!
The way I saw it with Mr Clever in Nightmare in Silver, is that he couldn’t actually feel emotion. But, he could replicate it as a form of deception as with Clara, as well as a form of instigation with the Doctor. Granted, it didn’t work on Clara over the detonator, but the Doctor had moments of being flared up as Mr Clever kept on.
A scooby-doo chase scene.... sadly, you're doing it right
The guy with the teeth on his face is the worst villain of all time. He's so bad I don't even remember his name.
I liked the Ice Warriors. I thought it was a decent episode with a very nice treat at the end. I LOATHE Krasko and Jack Robinson. It was those two villains, one after the other, that made me start to realize Doctor Who was no longer the show I loved.
Empress of Mars is a good episode. In my opinion The Ice Warriors haven't had a bad story
You missed the point of The Lodger. Upstairs was a Monk of The Silence, that was killed by the little girl it last lured in.
I feel like a Cyber-Planner should have emotions, even being a Cyberman. It seems kind of beneficial for an ultra intelligent machina to have emotion so that it can better predict how other organisms act and think.
I really thought Tim Shaw would be on here
Wait wasn't Tim sure on this list
I thought the idea of Krasko was to keep him mysterious and leave the door open for him to appear again .
funny how 2 of the picks were from season 10, and people say that season was good
I might be the only one who loves the Abzorbaloff, the Jagrefess and Mr Clever. :(
the guy who drew the Abzorbaloff is a youtuber now, Channel pup, he did a video on it.
I didn't agree with the majority of this list
Which was surprising
Mr. Clever was too much of a rehashing of the Star Trek: Next Gen gag where Picard is captured by the Borg, and transformed into Locutus for my tastes. Wasn’t actually found of the Next Gen version either.