Vanderbilt Runner Steals 2nd Base on Foul Ball in 17th Inn - What Rules Were the Umpires Looking At?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- As Evansville and Vanderbilt's marathon game moved through its 17th inning, Vandy baserunner Davis Diaz attempted to steal second base on a pitch ultimately fouled off. But Diaz remained on second as the pitcher threw his next pitch. What happened? Article: www.closecalls...
Facebook: / closecallsports
Twitter: / closecallsports
Discord: / discord
Although runners ordinarily do not advance 90 feet on plays that culminate in a foul ball, Diaz's case was different as he took off for second far before Evansville pitcher Nate Hardman began his pitching motion (out of Set Position). As Diaz arrived at second base, Hardman had still not yet started his delivery toward home plate, and the subsequent foul ball resulted in Diaz staying at second.
Here's why. The ball becomes dead and runners return to their bases when a batter hits a foul ball (Official Baseball Rule 5.06(c)(5) & NCAA Rule 6-2-a). However, the "return" point specified in this rule is "Time of Pitch."
NCAA Rule 2-82 defines "Time of Pitch" as the moment when the pitcher first begins the natural movement associated with their delivery (or in the case of windup position, when the pitcher makes any movement habitually associated with delivery to the plate). This "Time of Pitch" occurs after the pitcher comes Set (if Set Position is used) and the motion in going from stretch to set is not part of this calculus.
That meant Diaz arrived at and occupied second base prior to Time of Pitch so that when the batter hit a foul ball, Diaz's base to return to was second base, not first base, the stolen base (actually defensive indifference as the winning run [who ultimately scored to win the game] was on third base) having already occurred prior to the pitch.
![[UNCUT] "บอสณวัฒน์" แฉ! แหล่งซุกเงินแก๊งบอส ขยันผิดที่ไม่กี่ปีก็เข้าคุก l คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ l17ต.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BL56qIfXYZM/mqdefault.jpg)
Outstanding video and explanation! 30+ years in baseball and I am not sure I woulda caught that! Well done!
It is not stealing 2nd base on a foulball because the base was stolen before the pitch was started. However, the base runner advanced on defensive indifference, therefore it is not a stolen base.
Excellent point. The title of the video was misleading because the foul ball (and the pitch associated with it) occurred after the base was gained - “stolen” through defensive indifference. (Which in it self was an odd choice to allow a runner to get into scoring position, kinda dumb if you ask me.) So it did not happen “on a foul ball” but rather before one.
I was about to type this.
What would even add complexity to this situation is if the ball was hit "foul" but ultimately caught, the runner would NOT have to return to first base to avoid a double play since they had already achieved 2nd on indifference. I have seen that happen before with both fair and foul balls. Unfortunately some 😄😄coaches don't end up seeing the remainder of the game after that rule is explained to them.
I do have to ask how can I go about sending a video from a play during a game that I was watching this past weekend? Great job with the answer Lindsay!
just when you thought youd seen everything lol
TIME OF PITCH TIME OF PITCH!!! I know the answer it's time of pitch...
I had this happen to me as a coach when my runner stole second on a first and third situation and my then bff Peter happened to be the home plate umpire. The pitcher stood there and stared at R1 when he took second base. Then the hitter smacked a ground rule double and my "friend" Peter sent the runner back to third. I argued that with him for several years and it wasn't until I became an umpire that I learned I was right
Say what one will about the sometimes needless complexity of the NCAA rulebook and the scenario-specific rules, but it sure is dang handy when nearly every term used has a formal definition, such as "time of pitch".
As always, really great content and explanations! Suppose R1 doesn't make it to second, the pitch is thrown, the batter hits a foul ball, but the runner stays at second. Whose obligation is it to get the runner back to first?
The umpire would tell R1 to go back to first as normal.
The umpires
The point of the video remains valid but the title of the video is technically incorrect. The base runner advanced on defensive indifference and not a stolen base. 😆
No stolen base credit.
I came to the comment section to say this. Isn’t this just defensive indifference?
Some will roll their eyes at this level of pedantry; I am not one of those!
I do appreciate that this level of precision means that the question in the thumbnail conforms to the standard of click-bait questions: if a headline asks the viewer a question, then the answer is “no”. For example, “Did just ?” No they didn’t.
Technically, he didn't steal the base on a foul ball.
I had a similar situation that resulted in R1 ending up on third and R3 scoring. Situation: R1 and R3. R1 "steals" second base while the pitcher is in the set position - he never moved while R1 was going to second. After R1 acquired second base, the pitcher decided to disengage from the pitcher's plate. He did so illegally and I called a balk. R3 scored on the balk and R2 (formerly R1) was awarded third. One of the strangest plays I've seen in my years of umpiring.
Awesome video!
Thank you for the tip.
So would time of pitch apply to runner stealing 2nd base and rgen a fly ball? if he gets to 2nd base before top.
So, you really can't steal a base on a foul ball. Excellent explanation until the final misleading suggestion that this runner advanced on a foul ball. Your explanation was clear that he did not.
Man I missed these videos!
I wonder if that was a position player used in the 17th? Someone not familiar with holding runners on. This was a fun one. Thanks
I was today years old when I found that out.
Looking at the box score that runner was not credited with a stolen base.
It goes down as "defensive indifference" technically. The defense did not even try to prevent him from achieving the base, so by the rules he didn't "steal" it.
Interesting scenario, but technically, it's not a "stolen base" (it's defensive indifference) and it didn't happen "on a foul ball" (it happened prior to a foul ball).
Same applies to a walk and the runner continues to second base. Stolen base ?
Runner didn't advance on a foul ball. He ran to second before the pitch was thrown.
It would be more accurate to say the runner REACHED second base before the time of pitch.
The runner did not steal the base on/during a foul ball. You cannot steal a base on a foul ball. The runner stealing the base is considered a "previous" play to the play of the foul ball. We must be correct and thorough in how we label things.
Wouldn't that be defensive indifference and not an SB?
If I were scoring I would put DI.
This makes a lot of sense, but I've never actually known the rule
So he didn't steal anything on a foul ball. The steal was on the pitcher,
Does MLB have the same rule as the NCAA?
Yes.
Didn’t even look close. I thought the runner was going to keep going to third since no one seemed to be paying attention to him
That would've been awkward seeing as there was a guy on third.
this wouldn't happen with softball as for them they have to be on the relases of the pitch thank god
Was just going to say the same thing. And the pitching rules, as complicated as they are, are much simpler for softball. In softball, as you said, the “time of pitch” is when the ball is released.
@@bethhentges I mean we also have kids have to start pitching certain time this one really isn't as enforced
He occupy second base at the time of pitch