John, I love the way you integrate psychology with philosophy in a way that is not shoehorning one into the other just for the sake of being interdisciplinary, but which instead shows how they are often more like two vocabularies for the same insights. I'm a philosophy student and I wish that my discipline was less inclined to think itself above psychology and anthropology, because your synthetic approach is bearing intellectual fruit at an astonishing rate. I hope academic philosophers start to take notice of it.
Just watched your truly fabulous series on the what is money channel, which was fantastic. Also, another great conversation with Steve. Thank you John and thank you both 🙏
I love the new links to awakening and enlightenment you're exploring here. Great convo as always John. Keen to go check out some of Steve's work now 🙏❣️
Wonderful! If I had any spare cash I’d jump into Steve’s course in a shot. It’s a beautiful set-up and progression. Meanwhile, I’m about to join the first cohort of ACER psychedelic integration training with Dr. Rosalind Watts (the main psychologist from the UK psilocybin clinical trials). John, have you seen her work? And the Connectedness scale instrument she has developed? Perhaps what she’s doing should be involved in a meta-curriculum? Just a thought… 🙏🏽❤️💋
whenever there was too much quiet and my mom wanted to have music playing , she would ask- where's the vibes? proceeding, then, the music came to be and moments of joy would simply synchronize with our souls or soloists and we recognized one another in a deeper non superficial way, and we were one like a duet, we were just being together and both being engaged in everything that constructed what is now only embedded and kept alive in my memory and i revive this as best as i can and amplify it in creative mapping and designing and curating and redeveloping, building relevant structure to uphold the immense context. enwisdoment. a moment in which you are and you gain and you see and you feel and embody embedded in cells of memory with entry for reinactment again but in the present moment. so i create music. it is layered and contains , in my opinion, the most information and it stands and can variate and still encapsulate and emulate parts of itself feedback loopoing back to source re source re sourceful resourcefulment like an orchestration , a magnificence in many ways. i paused half way and quickly made a 30 second sound track , one that I did not plan but i follwed the inner prompt and now I will center back into this conversation having created something soluble and sensory to map out the download that seems to be channeling through me , Im currently current and with the current. there is a sense of ease and peace and grounding in my atmosphere and I like it because it is an interesting new dynamic for the second half on this convo. do you know about intercession and or interceding or being in intecessory states? and when you say translation, i simply think of a translation of language into a new language that is more than, it is fuller, it is more pure like if you take language and transcend it and format it into communication channelling in to base between duo and then the construct includes touching base. it takes effort, both have to participate and let old language dissolve and become more open towards stepping into a slightly different realm for lack of a better word , of calibration birthing creatively - a simultaneous conclusion or discovery or realization, then taking that and returning to normal language and then translating it by sharing and creating and synchronizing. 2 or more usually works
I was listening to Krishnamurti Ojai discussions and it seems similar stuff was verbed as "ending of think/time allows for insight". Becoming being futile seems connected to abandoning improvement and embracing unfolding. Eerie similarity also with "ground".
That is one of my favourite of his talks. In his discussion with Dr Alan Anderson, K translates the word progress to mean "an approach fully armed" and ultimately wrong relationship with truth
Thank you both deeply! This concept of realizing RR's irrelevance connects a lot for me with Christopher and Rick's conversation about free will. I suspect that RR does not stop at that moment but becomes just a suggestion gives you choice.
Great conversation Gents, I am struck by how much existential risk is coupled to how we think. Even risks that we might usually categorize as outside of our sphere of influence (eg. asteroid impacts) can be mitigated by how we think about them (eg. we tend to think about them as being outside our sphere of influence). And this says nothing about the risks arising from how we think about ourselves and each other. So it makes sense that cog-sci is so concerned with existential risk. Everything depends of how we think.
Two thoughts from this wonderful conversation: 1. Steve's work sounds like a version of Nora Bateson's Warm Data Lab. If this is the case, I find it fascinating, though not terribly surprising, that this kind of work has independently developed on it's own within the corporate realm as a response to the meaning crisis. 2. When you were talking about the idea of getting to a point where relavance realization no longer exists reminded of the Buddhist concept of Five Paths and general idea of the fifth stage of 'no more learning', which I never understood exactly as one no longer learns but that one's acquisition of, in this instance, your definition of relavance realization had been attained and thus awakening unfolds. I know answering to such thoughts isn't the easiest thing to do through TH-cam, but I'm curious to know how this sits with you. As always, much gratitude and love for you, John.
John, how do you spell Exeros? I love your videos but often find when I'm trying to research for these esoteric terms for wisdom practices and transcendental experiences I run into difficulty without the spelling referent
Hello, sorry to bother you, in one of your classes you mentioned the correct way of journaling, now I cant find it, could you direct me to the correct place to listen to that again? Thank you.
Wisdom is what arrives when the truth exposes delusions....... when heart instructs intellect. a poem to share please 'wisdom' Wisdom is its own reward or so the sages say wisdom was and always will be like the light before the day you endure the night and struggle and feel lost within its grip but at dawn the light arrives and illuminates your trip.... by JA Welsh. cheers
John, I find it strange that Lord of Light would have so profound an influence on your understanding of the world. Perhaps a reread would give you some perspective on your younger self. I suspect the story would lose some of its sophistication and become a mere telling of the tyranny of privilege but not of the the origin of being.
I disagree about the way you use enlightenment. "Becoming" will look like reaching for enlightenment. This seems to me a mind game and not real growing up. I would love to know more about how my kids will grow up developmentally than become enlightened. Enlightenment is for kids NOT for adults. Wisdom is for adults. Osho would be a great example of needing to grow up and not needing to work on enlightenment. 🙏❤️ No disrespect. Love you both.
You guys, while justifiably exploring wisdom, are doing the same thing as the traditions previously did, justifying the experience in terms of the experience. But what you try to describe is not beyond framing. It is simply beyond the scope of frames, or points of reference we are normally familiar with. Take timelessness for example what appears to be timeless is just an unfamiliar, variable rate of change without recognizable points of reference. Extend this concept to all the other notions about lack of attributes in a transcendent space.
Why do people hold themselves out there as having wisdom others don’t have. These two consider themselves wise. Just because you use big words and convoluted phrases doesn’t make you wise. These two are getting off on each others verbage. I see no wisdom here just giant egos.
I am very thankful to John Vervaeke. By the way, as far as I know, he doesn't claim to be wise, he studies wisdom. I do understand that the language we need to talk about these matters can be very alienating, but if you are interested I highly recommend the series "Awakening from the meaning crisis".
By no means should you consider someone wise just because they tell you so, or even if many others tell you they are wise. Instead I recommend that you engage deeply with Vervaeke’s work, watch Awakening from Meaning Crisis series for an introduction. Then evaluate for yourself if it has substance. Through this you will no doubt pick up some of the technical vocabulary and phrases that allows experts to talk about complex topics that otherwise would be unwieldy or confused. I do wish there was a glossary, because JV & friends do tend to fall into what feels like an esoteric dialect for outsiders.
Wow. The through line...
The bliss that RR acknowledges is worthy of bliss in and of itself?
I appreciate all that you do JV your a gift to the world
John, I love the way you integrate psychology with philosophy in a way that is not shoehorning one into the other just for the sake of being interdisciplinary, but which instead shows how they are often more like two vocabularies for the same insights. I'm a philosophy student and I wish that my discipline was less inclined to think itself above psychology and anthropology, because your synthetic approach is bearing intellectual fruit at an astonishing rate. I hope academic philosophers start to take notice of it.
Just watched your truly fabulous series on the what is money channel, which was fantastic. Also, another great conversation with Steve. Thank you John and thank you both 🙏
I love the new links to awakening and enlightenment you're exploring here.
Great convo as always John. Keen to go check out some of Steve's work now 🙏❣️
Wonderful! If I had any spare cash I’d jump into Steve’s course in a shot. It’s a beautiful set-up and progression.
Meanwhile, I’m about to join the first cohort of ACER psychedelic integration training with Dr. Rosalind Watts (the main psychologist from the UK psilocybin clinical trials).
John, have you seen her work? And the Connectedness scale instrument she has developed? Perhaps what she’s doing should be involved in a meta-curriculum?
Just a thought… 🙏🏽❤️💋
Thanks Steve and John!
Really excited to see this unfold. The last one had a profound impact on my model of my self and depths of experience.
What is this "SELF" of which you speak, Ben?
whenever there was too much quiet and my mom wanted to have music playing , she would ask- where's the vibes? proceeding, then, the music came to be and moments of joy would simply synchronize with our souls or soloists and we recognized one another in a deeper non superficial way, and we were one like a duet, we were just being together and both being engaged in everything that constructed what is now only embedded and kept alive in my memory and i revive this as best as i can and amplify it in creative mapping and designing and curating and redeveloping, building relevant structure to uphold the immense context. enwisdoment. a moment in which you are and you gain and you see and you feel and embody embedded in cells of memory with entry for reinactment again but in the present moment. so i create music. it is layered and contains , in my opinion, the most information and it stands and can variate and still encapsulate and emulate parts of itself feedback loopoing back to source re source re sourceful resourcefulment like an orchestration , a magnificence in many ways. i paused half way and quickly made a 30 second sound track , one that I did not plan but i follwed the inner prompt and now I will center back into this conversation having created something soluble and sensory to map out the download that seems to be channeling through me , Im currently current and with the current. there is a sense of ease and peace and grounding in my atmosphere and I like it because it is an interesting new dynamic for the second half on this convo. do you know about intercession and or interceding or being in intecessory states? and when you say translation, i simply think of a translation of language into a new language that is more than, it is fuller, it is more pure like if you take language and transcend it and format it into communication channelling in to base between duo and then the construct includes touching base. it takes effort, both have to participate and let old language dissolve and become more open towards stepping into a slightly different realm for lack of a better word , of calibration birthing creatively - a simultaneous conclusion or discovery or realization, then taking that and returning to normal language and then translating it by sharing and creating and synchronizing. 2 or more usually works
I was listening to Krishnamurti Ojai discussions and it seems similar stuff was verbed as "ending of think/time allows for insight". Becoming being futile seems connected to abandoning improvement and embracing unfolding. Eerie similarity also with "ground".
That is one of my favourite of his talks. In his discussion with Dr Alan Anderson, K translates the word progress to mean "an approach fully armed" and ultimately wrong relationship with truth
Thank you both deeply! This concept of realizing RR's irrelevance connects a lot for me with Christopher and Rick's conversation about free will. I suspect that RR does not stop at that moment but becomes just a suggestion gives you choice.
Or is this just the moment of transformation, of the frame-shift to a bigger and more inclusive frame but not even close to being final?
Wonderful dialogue! Thanks!
Great conversation Gents, I am struck by how much existential risk is coupled to how we think. Even risks that we might usually categorize as outside of our sphere of influence (eg. asteroid impacts) can be mitigated by how we think about them (eg. we tend to think about them as being outside our sphere of influence). And this says nothing about the risks arising from how we think about ourselves and each other. So it makes sense that cog-sci is so concerned with existential risk. Everything depends of how we think.
Two thoughts from this wonderful conversation:
1. Steve's work sounds like a version of Nora Bateson's Warm Data Lab. If this is the case, I find it fascinating, though not terribly surprising, that this kind of work has independently developed on it's own within the corporate realm as a response to the meaning crisis.
2. When you were talking about the idea of getting to a point where relavance realization no longer exists reminded of the Buddhist concept of Five Paths and general idea of the fifth stage of 'no more learning', which I never understood exactly as one no longer learns but that one's acquisition of, in this instance, your definition of relavance realization had been attained and thus awakening unfolds.
I know answering to such thoughts isn't the easiest thing to do through TH-cam, but I'm curious to know how this sits with you.
As always, much gratitude and love for you, John.
That was like getting to sip ambrosia then being told to come back tomorrow, thank you both Steve and John.
Peace
John, how do you spell Exeros?
I love your videos but often find when I'm trying to research for these esoteric terms for wisdom practices and transcendental experiences I run into difficulty without the spelling referent
Hello, sorry to bother you, in one of your classes you mentioned the correct way of journaling, now I cant find it, could you direct me to the correct place to listen to that again? Thank you.
Love the new glasses, John! Hope you are well.
Thx Paul!
I had a strange dream about an anthropomorphic tornado. When I woke up I fully understood transjectivity.
Wisdom is what arrives when the truth exposes delusions....... when heart instructs intellect.
a poem to share please
'wisdom'
Wisdom is its own reward
or so the sages say
wisdom was and always will be
like the light before the day
you endure the night and struggle
and feel lost within its grip
but
at dawn
the light arrives
and illuminates your trip....
by JA Welsh.
cheers
I would like to recommend Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society for Platonic Dialogue on TouTube
If you guys are looking for test dummies I volunteer.
This was such a tease but leaves me hopeful
🙏🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯❤️🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🙏
These two actually have a following. I wish I was as wise as you two, but alas I never will be. Poor, poor me.
John, I find it strange that Lord of Light would have so profound an influence on your understanding of the world.
Perhaps a reread would give you some perspective on your younger self. I suspect the story would lose some of its sophistication and become a mere telling of the tyranny of privilege but not of the the origin of being.
👁👁. ...
🍓🥚Ritual transcends any other means of supposed transcendence. 🦋🐣
SATHI SATHI
Kindly repeat that in ENGLISH, Sir/Madam.
I disagree about the way you use enlightenment.
"Becoming" will look like reaching for enlightenment. This seems to me a mind game and not real growing up.
I would love to know more about how my kids will grow up developmentally than become enlightened.
Enlightenment is for kids NOT for adults. Wisdom is for adults.
Osho would be a great example of needing to grow up and not needing to work on enlightenment. 🙏❤️ No disrespect. Love you both.
You guys, while justifiably exploring wisdom, are doing the same thing as the traditions previously did, justifying the experience in terms of the experience. But what you try to describe is not beyond framing. It is simply beyond the scope of frames, or points of reference we are normally familiar with. Take timelessness for example what appears to be timeless is just an unfamiliar, variable rate of change without recognizable points of reference. Extend this concept to all the other notions about lack of attributes in a transcendent space.
Why do people hold themselves out there as having wisdom others don’t have. These two consider themselves wise. Just because you use big words and convoluted phrases doesn’t make you wise. These two are getting off on each others verbage. I see no wisdom here just giant egos.
I am very thankful to John Vervaeke. By the way, as far as I know, he doesn't claim to be wise, he studies wisdom. I do understand that the language we need to talk about these matters can be very alienating, but if you are interested I highly recommend the series "Awakening from the meaning crisis".
By no means should you consider someone wise just because they tell you so, or even if many others tell you they are wise. Instead I recommend that you engage deeply with Vervaeke’s work, watch Awakening from Meaning Crisis series for an introduction. Then evaluate for yourself if it has substance. Through this you will no doubt pick up some of the technical vocabulary and phrases that allows experts to talk about complex topics that otherwise would be unwieldy or confused. I do wish there was a glossary, because JV & friends do tend to fall into what feels like an esoteric dialect for outsiders.
Agreed! 👍