Huge thanks to Emil for making his video in the first place so we can all talk about it! If you want some great climbing inspiration and entertainment, definitely check out his channel! Here's his "Hangboard 2x a day" video: th-cam.com/video/sBTI9qiH4UE/w-d-xo.html
Loved Emil's video, and love this explination! Do you happen to have a general protocol for the periodization 30s sub max hangs (Sets/rest)? Made a lot of sense when explained and I would love to implement this off season.
Also keen to hear about the 30s sub max hangs. I frequently have pulley injuries and by the way you describe the benefit of the 30s hangs i believe they could be very beneficial for me
Hi mate, if you could view this comment. "If stiffness (improves max strength) and compliance (improves tendon health) exist on a continuum does this mean that we are constantly undoing one or the other through training, ie taking steps backward by one or the other metric? Or does a compliance block after a max strength block improve tendon health without reducing our maximum strength? How does tendon hypertrophy fit in? Is the primary aspect by which we make permanent forward progress in tendon strength and health at the same time through additional tendon hypertrophy? Great video, your channel will blow up soon!" and also mine following it: "Would be fantastic to get a reply to this. My thoughts are creating a regime where i cycle the stiffness and compliance training throughout the year maybe 2 weeks on emils routine into 2 weeks into stiffness. maybe applying Stiffness and Compliance training into 1 rounded routine could be the most optimum, or a Stiffness regime in the morning and compliance in the evening? Or maybe the best way is to cycle it into pre / post / during the season. What are your thoughts on this, would be good if Hooper himself could reply, would have been good if he outlined a regime modifying emils." That would be amazing, thank you :). Love the video and subscribed!
Hooper when should I hangboard? After a climbing session, before? Or should I do it outside of 6hrs from a climbing session as the study suggests? When does one hangboard? 🤔
I also tried this awesome method you shared with us, in three weeks my fingers, lockofs, and tension in upper body got at least 30-50% stronger. Thank you a lot!
@@BlackSmithPagma Same! I only did this exercise for the past four weeks and I noticed a 69% increase in both my squats and my bench press. And, I’m able to do a one arm muscle up because of how much my body tension and lockofs have improved.
i started this program right after seeing emil’s video. and so far so good. hard to say anything about performance and it’s probably placebo but my fingers do feel better already. what i like about this program is that it’s essentially “free”. most of my warm ups on my flash board are higher intensity than this. and intuitively it makes sense that it would be beneficial. it’s like how going for a walk or doing some scapular engagements on rest days can actually make you heal faster when you’re wrecked from climbing.
Yes I started doing it too after seeing Emil's video, but my assumption was that it would help with recovery rather than make me super strong. I'm quite prone to injury when I get strong so I think I'll keep doing it, maybe not all the time. I do think it helps with the neural side of pulling as well but that's just my uneducated opinion.
@@seanmaguire9950 I’m of the exact same opinion, I think it helps with the neural side of crimping down and is mostly for repair/regrowth. I’ve also been prone to injury whenever I’m climbing stronger, and this program has definitely made a difference in the health of my fingers on my climbing days. My fingers aren’t getting so tired and painful despite crimping hard so I’m hoping to keep it up and that it stays this way. I’m interested in Hooper’s notes, but I’m not sure how I’d incorporate it in the program with different rest times and intensities for the 30 second hang
@@seanmaguire9950 I think if you're prone to injury you'd best be doing a block of the 30s hangs described in the video. At least that's my uneducated opinion 😅. There is a response to hooper's pinned comment asking for more detail.
There’s not much science to find here, he didn’t back up his claims by giving any references to research. Seems like broscience to me, no matter what his professional background is.
Great video but would be interested to see your proposed workouts for the different periods you listed. I have been thinking about the different cycles and here is a fairly conservative plan I thought of. Off season (healing lengthening): - 4x30s hangs with 2 minutes of rest between. Regulate intensity with feet on the ground. Pre season (stiffening): - hangs emil prescribed 2x a day, with 6 hours of rest when adding climbing training (just like emil describes) Peak season (???): - hangs emil listed 1x a day on non climbing/projecting days to maintain stiffness and promote recovery. - dont hang if wrecked from projecting and need a full rest day?
During peak season I wonder if you want additional training to further strengthen tendons, or if you want to add a healing routine to reduce injury risk
Hi, @Hoopers Beta, thanks for your thoughts! Let me reciprocate ;) 1. Your explanation of difference between stiffening of the tendons (in 4 weeks) and acutal tendon hipertrophy is, to my knowledge, correct. However, i do not think it is that "binary" in a sense, that one would occur in a first month and other in a second one. Rather, these are partially overlapping processes, where stiffening happens earlier and hipertrophy later. With that in mind, hipertrophy also occured during @Emil Abrahamsson training. 2. More importantly, Emil's training did not in fact start with the beginning of this specific regimen; he is a seasoned climber and probably did not rest for a month before this training, thus, his regimen actually boosted the hipertrophy of tendons/ligaments, on top of improving stiffness. 3. Why it worked? I agree that it improved the stiffness of connective tissues, thus helping him with better results. I disagree about the higher risk of injury: as i said, IMO the intervention did not in fact start with that specific regimen, because he was climbing and training before, meaning that both stiffening and hipertrophy were already in process - the regimen just boosted them in a safe and (importantly!) not fatiguing way, so he was able to climb (and train?) on top of that. After all, Felix said that he experienced big improvment on tweaky fingers in a first month. We all know that warning feeling of "lingering"injury - and he was telling just the opposite. I do not think that he was in fact at bigger risk of injury during that month. That said, that would be correct for someone with no training history starting this regimen. Any regimen, actually. Any way, thanks to both of you for your contributions to climbing tribe! So helpful! :)
A nice, thorough look at the article. Could you maybe elaborate where your recommendation of 30+ seconds of submaximal hangs come from? I find it really challenging to estabilish a proper time under load for this based on the current science. Also curious about your idea of submaximal, would you consider 50-60% of maximal load sufficient, or should it be more in the 80-85% range?
For anyone who comes across this comment, I found a video by Hard Is Easy titled "Training VS Just Climbing" Which describes some of the protocols from Latice Training. At 4:45 he talks about how they recommend *15* second hangs to strengthen soft tissue. Not sure if it totally answers the question but it's been on my mind for about a year now :D Hope this helps!
Dear Dr, Being a Dr myself (MD), I would love to see on which article/litterature you base yourself when saying that it increase tendon stiffness. I unfortunately could not find any studies on the topic. This is by no mean a critic, I have a scientific mind like you and I prefer using evidence based info while treating/counselling my patients. With all the respect, Jon
The most important update from Emil in his comment seems to be that he obviously also continued his normal climbing training and quickly realized (after 1 week) he was able to pull harder on small holds as his fingers would not open up that quickly. I guess taken together this would best explain the substantial improvement after just a month. I am a much worse climber and only hangboard train since about 1.5yrs, eg cannot lift my body weight in half crimp on small hold for more than 5s. BUT: I had the very same experience two weeks into this new practice routine. I just could connect the whole muscle chain better and keep it tight because the fingers did not open that quickly. I subjectively „feel“ I have much more power although I am only two weeks into this...maybe improved coordination (crimping optimally vs halfbaked) can also play a role....just my 5ct
Great review, thank you! Gives me a few things to think about while designing my own personal experiment around these ideas. On 11:27 - "Tendon thickening takes at least eight weeks to occur." I suppose this would also depend on the specific training programs used in the studies that demonstrated the eight week timeframe. If Emil's program is in fact more efficient than whatever programs were being used in the studies, we can't necessarily use those studies to say that tendon thickening in less than eight weeks is impossible. Would be so fascinating to get some hard data here...
Thank you so much for making this video! I love getting a second opinion on the subject. I think the format you used was easy to digest and reference which is genuinely valuable to me. Excellent! One point I wish you would have spoken more about however is around 12:45, where you mention longer sub-max hangs increasing tendon compliance and encourage healing. Are there any papers or resources on that specific point that get into the mechanisms occurring within the tissues? I personally am a licensed massage therapist and rock climb as a hobby, which leads me to want to dig deeper into the subject as I am sure it would benefit me and many others I come in contact with. Tendon injuries seem so common in rock climbing.
ive done it more or less the same way that Emil describes almost everyday and Ive seen a very good improvement in finger strength, but i havent mesured it. Does not mean Im sending 7a all of a sudden cos finger strength is not my weakness right now , but it s good to have good fingers. Another thing ive noticed, is that pain or soreness in fingers seems to vanish if you do it consistently maybe because of the stretchting isolation in the 3rd part. Overall I think its a good training, not hard, easy to do and helpful.
So thorough! Unbelievably well explained for an audience of non-experts. Thanks for uploading this! Personally, I’ve started the programme to get to peak performance level after a strength block. Let’s see what happens :)
People worrying about stiffness of the tendons. Well, simple solution is to chuck in a bit of finger stretching and flexibility. Regularly do the standard wrist and finger stretches, most people know them already.
If stiffness (improves max strength) and compliance (improves tendon health) exist on a continuum does this mean that we are constantly undoing one or the other through training, ie taking steps backward by one or the other metric? Or does a compliance block after a max strength block improve tendon health without reducing our maximum strength? How does tendon hypertrophy fit in? Is the primary aspect by which we make permanent forward progress in tendon strength and health at the same time through additional tendon hypertrophy? Great video, your channel will blow up soon!
Would be fantastic to get a reply to this. My thoughts are creating a regime where i cycle the stiffness and compliance training throughout the year maybe 2 weeks on emils routine into 2 weeks into stiffness. maybe applying Stiffness and Compliance training into 1 rounded routine could be the most optimum, or a Stiffness regime in the morning and compliance in the evening? Or maybe the best way is to cycle it into pre / post / during the season. What are your thoughts on this, would be good if Hooper himself could reply, would have been good if he outlined a regime modifying emils.
So I’m going to attempt to shed some light on the answer to your question. I’m not a DPT but I am a PTA with 4-5 years experience tx athletes, geriatric, and orthopedic patients. So as far as ligaments, which attach bone to bone, you don’t want excessive compliance, mostly max load resistance strength and normal ranges of compliance. Because they are not attached to a muscle or very good sources of blood supply in order to decrease compliance when healing from an injury or stimulus like a work out. Tendons on the other hand, attach muscle to bone, which changes how they react and recover from stimulus as compared to ligaments because we now have other variables like good blood supply, elasticity of muscle tissue unlike ligaments bone to bone connection, and differences in load tolerance, tensile strength. You can increase tendon max load tolerance resistance (strength) and max compliance with proper training but we shouldn’t forget about how the muscle is also a variable in the equation with tendons. We can achieve this much easier by training the muscles load tolerance(max strength) in a moderate to max stretched position(max compliance) because of both the elasticity and contractability of muscle tissue. Tendons can tolerate resistance, slightly stretch, but they cannot contract. It is sort of a balancing game still but if you train muscles in multiple degrees of stretched positions you will improve compliance as well as max load tolerance in these new ranges of compliance, at the same time. I hope this helps!
@@BCEpedals so strength through long range of motion ? in other words some sort of mobility training where we can go past normal ranges of motion like knees over toes (skin the cat) where we do flips on the rings and shoulders rotate past 90 degrees and so on. if that is what you mean how does that apply to small tendons like fingers where it is very difficult to strength them through range
Thank you for the video, I am a little confused on the term 'sub-max' as I would consider Emil's fingerboard routine as sub-maximal as he keeps his feet on the ground and hangs fairly large holds for a short period (similar to Eric Horst's daily routine).
I’d love a Hooper video about Horst’s collagen/finger protocols. Horst seems disingenuous on this subject as he presents his own personal anecdotes and generally omits details from relating scientific studies. When for decades Horst would analyze scientific studies and relate them to climbing to the best of his ability. (He happens to sell collagen supplementation)
@@joelcremeens3618 Horst is totally irrelevant nowadays. He even says "hey you can put my collagen powder with C vitamin in your morning coffee" when the C vitamin molecules get destroyed by such high temperatures.
I only just discovered your channel and I'm quite impressed! What I've seen is great content with suburb sense of humour and deep knowledge of both climbing and exercise physiology - you got yourself a new subscriber. Thanks guys! 😊
I'm not a scientist but did attended a load of physiology classes in my youth (physician) and have another "guess" at what might be happening. The golgi tendon organ is a sensor in the tendon near the muscle and senses the tension experienced. It will inhibit the muscle when tension/strain is too high to protect the muscle and tendon. I wonder if Emil's quick improvement was this organ resetting to a higher stress. I can't see how any well trained structure improves that much in a month. This doesn't explain how Emil's brother actually recovered from his tweaky fingers. There is probably some tendon/ligament remodeling and strengthening that also occurs. I also completely agree with Emil's brother's more recent explanation that stiff at low tension does not mean stiff at high tension (your elastic band analogy fits, I'd trust the stiffer larger elastic band not to snap). Regardless of what is actually happening, this is enough for me to give it a try, starting with the original program. Fingers crossed!
if the half crimp was good for pulleys, perhaps a good hybrid between what you suggested and what emil did is to do half crimps 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off for pulley repair, and then do the other grip types at 30s on for the tendon repair?
What I learned, doing Emils protocol, is that it is possible to hold a grip in different ways while not positioning the hands differently. It’s very hard to explain. It taught me that I can pull with different parts of my hand and fingers, while not changing the positioning at all
I appreciate the dive into the primary literature in both videos. But I find it sort of amazing that you would propose a modified program of your own based only on a reading of the same paper (and your expert knowledge). Surely a study of different treatments on case and control climbers would be better? Re: periodization: is it still worthwhile if you live in a country where the season is year round?
Been doing the nohangs for about half a year, but mainly with an open grip position. I feel a clear improvement here in particular. In the meantime, I had the feeling that I was recovering badly and that my forearms were permanently sore. By slightly reducing the intensity, I was able to improve this somewhat.
I've been following Emil's training plan for few weeks now, and I might be a negative case. My finger health has deteriorated over the last few months. I already have a pretty intense training plan and adding this on top might have had negative effect for my fingers. I've felt a little achy after the Emil's drill one or two times. I think one of the downside of Emil's drill is that the intensity of hanging with feet down can be quite variable and hard to control. When your feet are one the ground, you could hang anywhere from 1% of your body weight to 99.99% of your body weight. In my case, I think I might have pushed it on the higher range where my body could have construed as a somewhat of an actual workout. I'm glad to have watched this video. I will definitely drop Emil's drill in my training plan for now :)
I used a pulley and weights for the first week to dial in the intensity of the hangs. Once I knew what each hang felt like I, I ditched the weights and did it by feel.
That was awesome! It explained so much I read on the subject in a conclusive way, thank you for that. Now I have a question: With Emils' program we have a specific plan for tendon stiffness (2 times a day/ sub max/ 10on 50 off for 10 min for one month) Could you outline the same for tendon compliance and health to balance the other program (frequenc, reps and sets and duration, load) This would be a great tool in my the box of every climber! Cheers from the hell for tendons and ligaments, the Frankenjura :)
Hi, thanks so much for making this video! I've actually been attempting a form of Emil's program myself. Because I definitely don't know as much about tendon health as you do, I was wondering if you could speak to the reasoning behind the time of 30 seconds as a period that will increase compliance of the tendon, as well as how you would suggest fitting that activation time into a program that "last 10 minutes" (which is amazingly vague, as you appropriately point out), given that 30 seconds on / 30 seconds off is definitely different (volume is the main concern here) than 10 seconds on / 50 seconds off (like in Emil's proposed routine).
I'm totally guessing as is everyone else to a certain extent. I think Emil's brother and Hooper have the best experience and study to advise a program but here's what I'm doing. I've just started with the original program 10 sec hang:50 sec rest x 10 for a month or more. Seriously, what's the harm compared to my years of way more stressful programs. I find that I have to actually focus on not going too hard because it's pretty easy. The challenge for me is on multiple sessions per day separated by 6 hours, since I'm not sacrificing my regular gym time. I plan to morph to the other proposed programs down the road. Probably go with Emil's new program next. At some point I might even go with 10 min continuous light hang switching to different grips on the minute, we'll see. It's got me thinking about other muscle/tendon systems that this might apply to so I can slip it into my 50 sec resting.
I’m just under a month of this style of periodization. I’m seeing really good results for my inflamed PIPs (capsulitus) - something that hasn’t been discussed in these vids. I also do reps of 10 on/off w a cumulative hang time of about 6 minutes. So far so good.
@@Maseconditioning yeah - here is my magic recipe: get a cortisone injection, rest a week, avoid fingertip slopers or closed crimps for awhile, feet on campus board to build some resistance, daily hangs if you can, ease off if the PIP flares up but don't stop climbing - just grab holds that don't hurt.
Between 8:30 and 9:00 you talk about how the frequent low load triggered healing of the pulleys in particular, which are used more in a half crimp, less/not at all in an open hand position. I did Emils Hangboard Routine for 29 days now, yet I used only an open hand position for testing and the routine itself. Does that mean i f* cked up and probably won't have similar results, based on the assumption of similar finger strenght and conditions in the beginning?
@@umutsenliol9044 Of course! I'd say it still worked out great! To simplify, I will copy my comment from emils video: I just finished 30 days of doing this hangboard routine twice a day, also made a small video about it. summary: It worked great for me and I will continue with it in a modified way. long read: Since I had no open gym available to me, I had to do everything at home. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough weight and no edges smaller than 10mm, so I couldn't do all MAX hangs Emil did and had to improvise. However, the Hangboard Routine stayed the same, as I have a Beastmaker 2000 at home. My starting level on the hangboard was pretty similar to Emils, so doing the same hangs with the same intensity was fine. My starting MAX hangs were: 23mm edge right hand arm straight (11 sec), 23mm edge left hand arm straight (14,4 sec), 15mm edge right hand arm bent (1,6 sec), 15mm edge left hand arm bent (2 sec), 15mm edge both hands +10kg extra weight (39,3 sec), 10mm edge both hands + 10kg extra weight (23,9 sec) My MAX hangs after 30 days were: 23mm edge right hand arm straight (22,3 sec), 23mm edge left hand arm straight (27 sec), 15mm edge right hand arm bent (7,6 sec), 15mm edge left hand arm bent (8,5 sec), 15mm edge both hands +10kg extra weight (54,1 sec), 10mm edge both hands + 10kg extra weight (42,8 sec) Link to my video for proof: th-cam.com/video/0Bf0504L9ys/w-d-xo.html Added the hangs in the spreadsheet as well. Thanks Emil for the great Routine!
Hi! Short question: in this video you recommend 30s+ sub max hangs to promote healing. In the episode "Why your FINGER INJURY WON'T HEAL and HOW TO FIX IT" you recommend farmer crimps for 10s with 1min break also during recovery even if it was with lower load. Can you clarify things a little bit please?
Much thanks to Emil and Hooper. I had an interesting result from 2x per day hangs with toes on matt on 6 different holds mostly open handed (no pockets). My background is 14 years of climbing, with the longest single stretch off of 5 days. I vary intensity based on fatigue and will climb light for 1-2 weeks if a part of my body feels vulnerable. I do very little "training" at baseline, but rather use the campus and hang board for 3-5 sessions twice per year if I need that extra percent to send a project that has remained elusive. This twice a day protocol indeed led to a perceived increase strength. However, I blew a pulley on a smile shaped crimp on a moderate warmup at the end of the month protocol (my first injury in 14 years). It took 8 months to feel fully healed and ironically the light frequent loading was a big part of my recovery to full strength. As this is also an N=1, I can't draw any conclusions but it does beg the question if by using primarily open handed positions (in my version of the protocol) stiffened my tendons in excess of my ligaments, leaving my ligaments vulnerable to the increased "strength" of the tendon. What do you think Hooper?
I followed emil's plan for a month..skiping some times the weekends. It is true that my tendons got healthier, but did not increase any of my parameters cause I did not climb due the quarantine. Yesterday I tried total hangs and almost hurt my tendons. I think you gave the right explanation. He just got his tendons cured, he was already strong..but provably he was hurting more than recovering. After the program he had the same muscle, but 100% healthier.
I have two questions. First, wouldn’t Emil’s tendons become more compliant during this protocol? 10 seconds of eccentric, lightweight hangs would not have made his tendons stiffer right? Not nearly explosive enough (i.e. campusing or bouldering). Second, what about neurological adaptations like disinhibition? Or strength gains in his shoulder muscles, allowing more force to be delivered through the fingers? Love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.
Great video! Do you have any suggestions, or know where I can find suggestions of how to build up a session with 30 sec. holds? How many reps. how long rests and so fourth? Thanks!
Interested in your thoughts regarding the neuromuscular components contributing to Emil's improvements following this protocol. Good comments on central nervous system awareness and proprioception, but I suspect much of the strength gains he reported are due to overall improvements in neuromuscular recruitment of the FDP and FDS for the specific holds he trained, as well as proximal contributions from elbow, glenohumeral, parascapular, and trunk stability. More time under tension, despite load, would likely contribute to improved neuromotor recruitment altogether. Thanks for another great video, Jason!
Thanks for the thoughtful comment! I would imagine that is a possibility, but also since he has been climbing and routinely doing those things I don't know that it would have that strong of an impact. It could be a part of the equation, though!
Is there not a level where the sub maximal hangboarding doesn't cause increase in stiffness whether 10 seconds or 30 seconds regardless more of an active recovery level (seems weird to me for example if you held a two pound weight for 10 seconds stiff tendons but hold it for 30 seconds compliant tendons)? Or is that where the 30 second recommendation comes in meaning that for the desired submaximal level 30 seconds should a very comfortable amount of time based on the level. I have since added more of this no hang very submaximal with idea of active recovery but with the weight I am using 30 seconds would be easy to do as I am keeping really light. Also with the 30 seconds on what rest would you recommend? 30 on 30 off for 10 minutes?
Awesome video ! The only thing I am missing is an actual alternative to the proposed training plan. I know I can switch it off to max hangs but I am unsure on how to actually put that into a 10 min schedule.
There is one thing that still confuses me. So when you say you are more prone to injury, do you mean the muscles that are being stretched by the stiffer, less compliant tendon? Or is the pulley also more prone to injury because you will be climbing or hangblarding with more strength that the pulley isn't thick enough for? Or both?
Can the principal of using longer sub-maximal forces to increase tendon compliance and promote tissue healing be generally applied to other exercises? For example, holding support position on gymnastics rings or parallel bars as opposed to doing dips, or active hangs rather than pull ups?
Great video my dude!! I’m a little confused on the aspect of weather or not this would be a good training regiment to add to my routine? Or if it’s just going to increase the chance of injury, which you mentioned? I understand block training and how important it is. What I gather, again I may be wrong, since emils training regiment increases crimp strength, a good time to train would be during sending season which would be now. Then, summer which is off season for me, would be a good time to start power and strength training, then before winter, start the 30 second regiment on good holds for recovery before sending the gnar? I’m curious what you think?
Seems like a straight forward question but has a lot going on with it. If my conjecture is correct in that he improved his strength by stiffening his tendons in that short period of time without thickening the tendon it *could* lead to an increase risk in injury. But, as far as we know, Emil didn't suffer a catastrophic injury so he may just be cruising, having a great time. Because it is variable and a n = 1, I wouldn't want to specifically say "based upon that, you should do this". In the block / periodization style of things, the best time to do the recommended alternative is actually early. Periodized training, in a really simple way, looks like this: high volume low load -> low volume high load -> focus on performance / technique training. So using your model, your offseason would be a good time for a 3-4 week break to recover and heal, then a high volume low load program (such as the 30 second submax holds 2x/day), then work into higher load lower volume (such as more regular hangboard work, strength training, etc), then finally focus on your actual climbing during your sending season. Again, this is more of a "black and white" picture, and periodized training isn't perfect. Emil could have unlocked something special here with the way he did it... can't say with 100% certainty. Not sure that this exactly answers your question 100% but hopefully it provides some insight!
Hi, I am trying to find data to back up your claim of doing 30-second hangs would help improve tendon compliance. So far I've only found one paper that seems to compare isometric duration to tendon stiffness. "Effects of different duration isometric contractions on tendon elasticity in human quadriceps muscles" which showed that the longer duration isometric actually increased tendon stiffness over the shorter isometrics. Another study "Effects of isometric training on the elasticity of human tendon structures in vivo" also showed an increase in tendon stiffness from 20 second isometrics, whilst another "Effects of isometric squat training on the tendon stiffness and jump performance" also showed significant increases in stiffness with a 15 second isometric. Have you stumbled across any other papers in this area that are worth looking over?
Hey thanks for the good analysis. Highly appreciated. What do you think of doing the protocol with dayly 30+s hangs as you suggest parallel with Max hangs 2 times per week? I´m not sure but it seems that those two work contrary to each other. increasing compliance and stiffening ... It would be nice to hear your oppinion! cheers
Could your protocol (longer 30 sec hangs) be considered useful for rehabbing golfer's elbow or would it only be considered useful for changing the compliance/stiffness of tendons and ligaments in the fingers?
They actually have done research with that protocol on the Achilles (calf) as well! Short point being it can certainly be done for other body parts, including elbow :)
@@HoopersBeta I should have been more specific. Would hanging be helpful for rehabbing golfer's elbow or would it be more productive to do a similar protocol with golfer's elbow-specific "physio" exercises, like dumbbells wrist rotations? Thanks for the quick reply!
How are we not talking about that Keith Baar's paper is about connective tissue (not muscle) and that it doesn't make much sense to apply the findings on strength training? Sure, Hooper mentions a possible benefit of stronger connective tissue being that one allows oneself to pull harder (less pain or some other inhibitive feedback?), but connective tissue is just a tiny part of the strength equation. It really didn't make much sense to apply a protocol for how to build connective tissue on a strength training program in the first place. The paper Emil's training programmed was modeled on really doesn't provide anything in the way of suggesting thay he would see strength gains (although congratz on those, Emil!).
Great video and explanation! The one lingering question I had from Emil's video pertained to his training before starting this hang program. I had the same thoughts on periodization shift being the primary cause for his gains (ie tapering before a big event). I think knowing what he was doing before he started his program would help shed some light on this. Was he doing regular hang boarding before starting? At what intensity and interval? An elite level climber would be loading and training at much higher intensity than this program. So is he really decreasing compliance and thus increase chance of injury? So many unknowns.
Where can I signup to be a test subject to repeat this 30 day hangboard method? Enough hangboards were probably bought worldwide during lockdowns that this shouldn’t be too hard right?
Could you effectively train tendon compliance as well as tendon stiffness by alternating training methods on a daily basis? Say use a shorter hangs for stiffness M/W/F and longer hands for compliance T/Th/Sat. Would this effectively reduce your potential success from either training plan or would it improve both tendon health and force output?
How often should I do max hangs? How many sets? How many weeks should I do submax and what period should I do it, during the rest period? I need answers!
Really great video. If you were to turn this into a tendon thickening routine what would the changes be? You mentioned longer hangs, but what about the loading? Would the amount of weight you are pulling remain the same just for 30 seconds rather than 10? Similar number of sets & reps?
Yes, I had these exact same questions!!! It seems that Emil's program increases tendon stiffness and the risk of injury, so should we do longer hangs instead or as well?? Should we keep everything the same except change 10 second hangs for longer 30 second hangs? Or some sets with 10 second hangs and others with 30 seconds? Or does the entire program need to be redesigned???
All I gathered was that the training regime needs to be continued for a minimum of 8 weeks. However, it’s a little misleading as it’s not like the tendons will magically grow at the 8 week mark while staying the same size for the weeks leading up.
What we get from the video is that Emil's training is great for healing, and pro climbers will do that in the off season. After that you need to do max hangs to actually improve your strength... That's what I understood. It's not that it's bad, it's just that it's the first step
This is a great video. I’m not a climber and I cannot afford a membership to a climbing gym. But this information is obviously applicable to every kind of sport.
Thank you Jason for your interpretation. I am still missing the link between time of application to tendon thickness. I understood that tendon thickness increases after at least 2 months of training. Would tendon size increase as well with Emil's program? (10x10s/50s) Why tendon stiffness is decreased with more application than less?
I've been thinking about this video since I first watched it months ago, and I have come to disagree with the conclusion. Hooper is saying that Emil's strength gains came from stiffening the tendon, which also increases injury risk. However, this does not really make sense to me. What I understand is the opposite. Emil's strength improved because he aligned his tendon fibers by making them more compliant due to the 10 second duration of his hangs. Had he done shorter duration hangs (5s or less) and higher intensity, he could have stiffened the tendon. Stiffening requires "high velocity" training, like campusing, and I do not think 10s hangs fall into this category. Also, if Emil had actually stiffened the tendon, he would have been able to increase his rate of force development, but not necessarily his ability to hang for a long time. I actually think this protocol done by Emil has made his tendons more compliant, less likely to be injured, and also likely decreased his rate of force development while also increasing his overall strength. I'm curious if others have drawn similar conclusions?
@@Frodoswaggns I was referring to "'rate of force development" which is akin to power. The difference between strength and power is that power is dependent upon time/rate
I keep hearing collagen synthesis but what is the best way to get collagen into your system? How much do I need to eat and how long before a workout so that my tendons are getting the nutrients they need? Can I just eat a bowl of Jello 45 minutes before I exercise my fingers and call it a day?
This was so good and inspiring. Actually both videos were and I did try the approach, bit more for recovery... I love getting the expertise served well and refer to something that people in youtube recognize well. Go for colab with Magnus, this will surely boost your channel
Would be fantastic to get a reply to this. My thoughts are creating a regime where i cycle the stiffness and compliance training throughout the year maybe 2 weeks on emils routine into 2 weeks into stiffness. maybe applying Stiffness and Compliance training into 1 rounded routine could be the most optimum, or a Stiffness regime in the morning and compliance in the evening? Or maybe the best way is to cycle it into pre / post / during the season. What are your thoughts on this, would be good if Hooper himself could reply, would have been good if he outlined a regime modifying emils.
Hi! I love your channel. Where do you search papers for climbing? I'm a physical therapist very interested in climbing rehab and training. Have a nice day
From a mechanical point of view having one end fixed and applying strain is the same as having both ends free and half strain applied to each. The restoring force means this will always be true.
don't forget that elongation is always measured as % or most papers being much more vague and harder to reproduce than this or that compliant tendons and ligaments are more prone to injury or that sports medicine regularly debunks itself and to this day most textbooks will contain alternative "medicine" that was debunked 50 years ago
Anyone know what the sources are for stiffer tendons being more injury prone and longer sub max holds improving tendon compliance? Would love to check them out
So Hooper, would you say this would be good to do at the beginning of a new periodization. Say a 3 week training block with ARC training for a base fitness phase before a strength block?
Yeah that would work, with the lower intensity ARC training you can heal up your connective tissue, work on some endurance, and get prepped for a more aggressive strength training block. Good question / thought.
Hey Hooper! I had a quick question about the idea of block training. So at the moment, i have a goal which isn't project based, more... grade based. I want to get my first 8a boulder, and currently I am around the 7a/7a+ mark. Since I don't have a project in mind, how do you determine what the off season, pre-season, on season etc is if you don't have any specific projects? thanks! :)
Your critique of the research paper is not being specific enough. However, I did not hear a specific recommendation on how to alter Emil's routine for it to be more beneficial for tendon health. Sets, reps, time, frequency etc.
So does this mean that long endurance tendons that are stiff actually make you less quick? Would being able to finger hang for ages affect your typing or trigger finger speed?
I tried emils training plan for 4 days but had to stop because of a sharp pain in my left finger. Weird because it should be a healing excercice... if you advise it in a periodisation do you think than for a period of 1 month?
It's hard to get the intensity right; Emil is extremely strong so if even he keeps his feet on the floor... most climbers trying to emulate his program should really feel like the intensity is ridiculously easy.
@@alexgalays910 I should probably make the exercise less hard. I m at 150% body weight where Emil has 200% for a 5sec hang on the 20mm beastmaker. So I should adjust the exercise to 3/4the of the pressure / weight on my fingers.
Great in-depth Video! Just to be sure, I have a question: I´m currently dealing with some light inner elbow pain from training. Are 30+ sec light hangs or "no hangs" good for healing the tendon quicker and making it less prone to injury?
What would happen if you implemented the ~30sec sub max hangs in replace of the 10 sec hangs emil did but later in the day you did max hangs to increase strength? Would the compliance training in the morning even out the stiff (max hanging) training done in the afternoon? Or would it somehow promote healing and increasing strength at the same time?
ok, so if I were to, for example, follow Emil's plan for 8 weeks instead of 4 so that instead of getting the crosslinking of collagen and elastin I go for the tendon hypertrophy, could I make the effects stick, thus increasing my strength without increasing risk of injury? :D
Excellent video. Can help athletes in all disciplines. Have you studied the way armwrestlers train and use active recovery? There would be a huge crossover there. I wonder if tendons of the hand and arm respond similarly to training compared to an Achilles, for example.
I got two central slip injuries. I went 8 weeks last year on my RH pinky and now realizing I have a mild one in my LH middle. I have seen improvement in using PT putty, what exercises do you recommend to strength central slip/extensor tendons in fingers?
Huge thanks to Emil for making his video in the first place so we can all talk about it! If you want some great climbing inspiration and entertainment, definitely check out his channel! Here's his "Hangboard 2x a day" video: th-cam.com/video/sBTI9qiH4UE/w-d-xo.html
Loved Emil's video, and love this explination! Do you happen to have a general protocol for the periodization 30s sub max hangs (Sets/rest)? Made a lot of sense when explained and I would love to implement this off season.
Also keen to hear about the 30s sub max hangs. I frequently have pulley injuries and by the way you describe the benefit of the 30s hangs i believe they could be very beneficial for me
Would also love to hear more details about your recommended protocol for the sub max hangs!
Hi mate, if you could view this comment.
"If stiffness (improves max strength) and compliance (improves tendon health) exist on a continuum does this mean that we are constantly undoing one or the other through training, ie taking steps backward by one or the other metric? Or does a compliance block after a max strength block improve tendon health without reducing our maximum strength?
How does tendon hypertrophy fit in? Is the primary aspect by which we make permanent forward progress in tendon strength and health at the same time through additional tendon hypertrophy?
Great video, your channel will blow up soon!"
and also mine following it:
"Would be fantastic to get a reply to this. My thoughts are creating a regime where i cycle the stiffness and compliance training throughout the year maybe 2 weeks on emils routine into 2 weeks into stiffness. maybe applying Stiffness and Compliance training into 1 rounded routine could be the most optimum, or a Stiffness regime in the morning and compliance in the evening? Or maybe the best way is to cycle it into pre / post / during the season. What are your thoughts on this, would be good if Hooper himself could reply, would have been good if he outlined a regime modifying emils."
That would be amazing, thank you :). Love the video and subscribed!
Hooper when should I hangboard? After a climbing session, before? Or should I do it outside of 6hrs from a climbing session as the study suggests? When does one hangboard? 🤔
I'd been excitedly waiting for this and I was NOT disappointed! Thanks, this was awesome :-)
Hi emil.
Thanks for your video it is very inspiring
I also tried this awesome method you shared with us, in three weeks my fingers, lockofs, and tension in upper body got at least 30-50% stronger. Thank you a lot!
@@BlackSmithPagma Well you surely didn’t get stronger in your back and biceps by doing light finger workouts 😅
@@MrSpaenk well, i dit 10 sec on, 10 sec off for 10 min totall, tension in my body got a lot better after doing it two times a day.
@@BlackSmithPagma Same! I only did this exercise for the past four weeks and I noticed a 69% increase in both my squats and my bench press. And, I’m able to do a one arm muscle up because of how much my body tension and lockofs have improved.
Amazing explanation, Jason! Thanks for the video!
Glad you enjoyed it. Thank you!
i started this program right after seeing emil’s video. and so far so good. hard to say anything about performance and it’s probably placebo but my fingers do feel better already. what i like about this program is that it’s essentially “free”. most of my warm ups on my flash board are higher intensity than this. and intuitively it makes sense that it would be beneficial. it’s like how going for a walk or doing some scapular engagements on rest days can actually make you heal faster when you’re wrecked from climbing.
Yes I started doing it too after seeing Emil's video, but my assumption was that it would help with recovery rather than make me super strong. I'm quite prone to injury when I get strong so I think I'll keep doing it, maybe not all the time. I do think it helps with the neural side of pulling as well but that's just my uneducated opinion.
@@seanmaguire9950 I’m of the exact same opinion, I think it helps with the neural side of crimping down and is mostly for repair/regrowth. I’ve also been prone to injury whenever I’m climbing stronger, and this program has definitely made a difference in the health of my fingers on my climbing days. My fingers aren’t getting so tired and painful despite crimping hard so I’m hoping to keep it up and that it stays this way. I’m interested in Hooper’s notes, but I’m not sure how I’d incorporate it in the program with different rest times and intensities for the 30 second hang
@@seanmaguire9950 I think if you're prone to injury you'd best be doing a block of the 30s hangs described in the video. At least that's my uneducated opinion 😅. There is a response to hooper's pinned comment asking for more detail.
Hooper is what my science mind needs and Emil is what my psych mind needs. Great vid Hoop!
A perfect recipe! lol. Thank you.
There’s not much science to find here, he didn’t back up his claims by giving any references to research. Seems like broscience to me, no matter what his professional background is.
Wow, you just answered or addressed every question I had after watching Emil's video! Thanks so much!
Only vid I've ever seen of yours, but man was it informative, entertaining and easy to understand. I've subbed.
Awesome! Welcome :)
serious nostalgia with Alton Brown "Good Eats" vibes on this video and I'm here for it. thanks for the upload dooder!
Great video but would be interested to see your proposed workouts for the different periods you listed.
I have been thinking about the different cycles and here is a fairly conservative plan I thought of.
Off season (healing lengthening):
- 4x30s hangs with 2 minutes of rest between. Regulate intensity with feet on the ground.
Pre season (stiffening):
- hangs emil prescribed 2x a day, with 6 hours of rest when adding climbing training (just like emil describes)
Peak season (???):
- hangs emil listed 1x a day on non climbing/projecting days to maintain stiffness and promote recovery.
- dont hang if wrecked from projecting and need a full rest day?
During peak season I wonder if you want additional training to further strengthen tendons, or if you want to add a healing routine to reduce injury risk
Hi, @Hoopers Beta, thanks for your thoughts! Let me reciprocate ;)
1. Your explanation of difference between stiffening of the tendons (in 4 weeks) and acutal tendon hipertrophy is, to my knowledge, correct. However, i do not think it is that "binary" in a sense, that one would occur in a first month and other in a second one. Rather, these are partially overlapping processes, where stiffening happens earlier and hipertrophy later. With that in mind, hipertrophy also occured during @Emil Abrahamsson training.
2. More importantly, Emil's training did not in fact start with the beginning of this specific regimen; he is a seasoned climber and probably did not rest for a month before this training, thus, his regimen actually boosted the hipertrophy of tendons/ligaments, on top of improving stiffness.
3. Why it worked? I agree that it improved the stiffness of connective tissues, thus helping him with better results. I disagree about the higher risk of injury: as i said, IMO the intervention did not in fact start with that specific regimen, because he was climbing and training before, meaning that both stiffening and hipertrophy were already in process - the regimen just boosted them in a safe and (importantly!) not fatiguing way, so he was able to climb (and train?) on top of that. After all, Felix said that he experienced big improvment on tweaky fingers in a first month. We all know that warning feeling of "lingering"injury - and he was telling just the opposite. I do not think that he was in fact at bigger risk of injury during that month. That said, that would be correct for someone with no training history starting this regimen. Any regimen, actually.
Any way, thanks to both of you for your contributions to climbing tribe! So helpful! :)
A nice, thorough look at the article. Could you maybe elaborate where your recommendation of 30+ seconds of submaximal hangs come from? I find it really challenging to estabilish a proper time under load for this based on the current science. Also curious about your idea of submaximal, would you consider 50-60% of maximal load sufficient, or should it be more in the 80-85% range?
I wish this had been answered
For anyone who comes across this comment, I found a video by Hard Is Easy titled "Training VS Just Climbing" Which describes some of the protocols from Latice Training. At 4:45 he talks about how they recommend *15* second hangs to strengthen soft tissue. Not sure if it totally answers the question but it's been on my mind for about a year now :D Hope this helps!
One of the guys who was involved in the study has some other content talking about it. I’d have to dig for his name
th-cam.com/video/CgcR5J1dwcY/w-d-xo.html this guy
Emil's original video states what he's using in the program
Dear Dr,
Being a Dr myself (MD), I would love to see on which article/litterature you base yourself when saying that it increase tendon stiffness. I unfortunately could not find any studies on the topic. This is by no mean a critic, I have a scientific mind like you and I prefer using evidence based info while treating/counselling my patients.
With all the respect,
Jon
Look in the description of the video. Medical school apparently doesn't teach common sense
@@wsemenske They are asking about a claim that Hooper made, not a claim made by the article linked in the description.
strong statement for somebody who clearly does not know what Jon was asking for.
@@wsemenske neither did the school you went to clearly..
Yeah, reading the article, literally the first comparison figures shows inactivity leads to stiffer tissue.
I'm more stoked that you did a video on this then I am about watching anything I am currently watching or waiting to watch.
The most important update from Emil in his comment seems to be that he obviously also continued his normal climbing training and quickly realized (after 1 week) he was able to pull harder on small holds as his fingers would not open up that quickly. I guess taken together this would best explain the substantial improvement after just a month. I am a much worse climber and only hangboard train since about 1.5yrs, eg cannot lift my body weight in half crimp on small hold for more than 5s. BUT: I had the very same experience two weeks into this new practice routine. I just could connect the whole muscle chain better and keep it tight because the fingers did not open that quickly. I subjectively „feel“ I have much more power although I am only two weeks into this...maybe improved coordination (crimping optimally vs halfbaked) can also play a role....just my 5ct
Great review, thank you! Gives me a few things to think about while designing my own personal experiment around these ideas.
On 11:27 - "Tendon thickening takes at least eight weeks to occur."
I suppose this would also depend on the specific training programs used in the studies that demonstrated the eight week timeframe. If Emil's program is in fact more efficient than whatever programs were being used in the studies, we can't necessarily use those studies to say that tendon thickening in less than eight weeks is impossible.
Would be so fascinating to get some hard data here...
Thank you so much for making this video! I love getting a second opinion on the subject. I think the format you used was easy to digest and reference which is genuinely valuable to me. Excellent!
One point I wish you would have spoken more about however is around 12:45, where you mention longer sub-max hangs increasing tendon compliance and encourage healing. Are there any papers or resources on that specific point that get into the mechanisms occurring within the tissues? I personally am a licensed massage therapist and rock climb as a hobby, which leads me to want to dig deeper into the subject as I am sure it would benefit me and many others I come in contact with. Tendon injuries seem so common in rock climbing.
ive done it more or less the same way that Emil describes almost everyday and Ive seen a very good improvement in finger strength, but i havent mesured it. Does not mean Im sending 7a all of a sudden cos finger strength is not my weakness right now , but it s good to have good fingers. Another thing ive noticed, is that pain or soreness in fingers seems to vanish if you do it consistently maybe because of the stretchting isolation in the 3rd part. Overall I think its a good training, not hard, easy to do and helpful.
Man, thank you so much for bringing science into the forefront of the climbing community. Great content, keep crushing it!
So thorough! Unbelievably well explained for an audience of non-experts. Thanks for uploading this! Personally, I’ve started the programme to get to peak performance level after a strength block. Let’s see what happens :)
Happy to hear that it was clear and able to help understand some of these topics! Thanks for the comment.
People worrying about stiffness of the tendons. Well, simple solution is to chuck in a bit of finger stretching and flexibility. Regularly do the standard wrist and finger stretches, most people know them already.
If stiffness (improves max strength) and compliance (improves tendon health) exist on a continuum does this mean that we are constantly undoing one or the other through training, ie taking steps backward by one or the other metric? Or does a compliance block after a max strength block improve tendon health without reducing our maximum strength?
How does tendon hypertrophy fit in? Is the primary aspect by which we make permanent forward progress in tendon strength and health at the same time through additional tendon hypertrophy?
Great video, your channel will blow up soon!
Would be fantastic to get a reply to this. My thoughts are creating a regime where i cycle the stiffness and compliance training throughout the year maybe 2 weeks on emils routine into 2 weeks into stiffness. maybe applying Stiffness and Compliance training into 1 rounded routine could be the most optimum, or a Stiffness regime in the morning and compliance in the evening? Or maybe the best way is to cycle it into pre / post / during the season. What are your thoughts on this, would be good if Hooper himself could reply, would have been good if he outlined a regime modifying emils.
Perhaps that's why i felt so weak after trying an endurance "cycle" and then go back to my usual bouldering!
So I’m going to attempt to shed some light on the answer to your question. I’m not a DPT but I am a PTA with 4-5 years experience tx athletes, geriatric, and orthopedic patients. So as far as ligaments, which attach bone to bone, you don’t want excessive compliance, mostly max load resistance strength and normal ranges of compliance. Because they are not attached to a muscle or very good sources of blood supply in order to decrease compliance when healing from an injury or stimulus like a work out. Tendons on the other hand, attach muscle to bone, which changes how they react and recover from stimulus as compared to ligaments because we now have other variables like good blood supply, elasticity of muscle tissue unlike ligaments bone to bone connection, and differences in load tolerance, tensile strength. You can increase tendon max load tolerance resistance (strength) and max compliance with proper training but we shouldn’t forget about how the muscle is also a variable in the equation with tendons. We can achieve this much easier by training the muscles load tolerance(max strength) in a moderate to max stretched position(max compliance) because of both the elasticity and contractability of muscle tissue. Tendons can tolerate resistance, slightly stretch, but they cannot contract. It is sort of a balancing game still but if you train muscles in multiple degrees of stretched positions you will improve compliance as well as max load tolerance in these new ranges of compliance, at the same time. I hope this helps!
@@BCEpedals i need the for dummies version.
@@BCEpedals so strength through long range of motion ? in other words some sort of mobility training where we can go past normal ranges of motion like knees over toes (skin the cat) where we do flips on the rings and shoulders rotate past 90 degrees and so on. if that is what you mean how does that apply to small tendons like fingers where it is very difficult to strength them through range
Thank you for the video, I am a little confused on the term 'sub-max' as I would consider Emil's fingerboard routine as sub-maximal as he keeps his feet on the ground and hangs fairly large holds for a short period (similar to Eric Horst's daily routine).
I’d love a Hooper video about Horst’s collagen/finger protocols.
Horst seems disingenuous on this subject as he presents his own personal anecdotes and generally omits details from relating scientific studies. When for decades Horst would analyze scientific studies and relate them to climbing to the best of his ability. (He happens to sell collagen supplementation)
@@joelcremeens3618 Horst is totally irrelevant nowadays. He even says "hey you can put my collagen powder with C vitamin in your morning coffee" when the C vitamin molecules get destroyed by such high temperatures.
@@alexgalays910 m with you 100%, some how the coach has become a salesman... sad (i still bought all his books)
I hope hooper replies to your question---we want it answered bad! Can you clarify what you mean by "sub-max" hold?
Sir hooper, could you put together your training plan so we can see what a full training schedule would look like?
I only just discovered your channel and I'm quite impressed! What I've seen is great content with suburb sense of humour and deep knowledge of both climbing and exercise physiology - you got yourself a new subscriber. Thanks guys! 😊
Welcome! Thanks for the support :)
I'm not a scientist but did attended a load of physiology classes in my youth (physician) and have another "guess" at what might be happening. The golgi tendon organ is a sensor in the tendon near the muscle and senses the tension experienced. It will inhibit the muscle when tension/strain is too high to protect the muscle and tendon. I wonder if Emil's quick improvement was this organ resetting to a higher stress. I can't see how any well trained structure improves that much in a month. This doesn't explain how Emil's brother actually recovered from his tweaky fingers. There is probably some tendon/ligament remodeling and strengthening that also occurs. I also completely agree with Emil's brother's more recent explanation that stiff at low tension does not mean stiff at high tension (your elastic band analogy fits, I'd trust the stiffer larger elastic band not to snap). Regardless of what is actually happening, this is enough for me to give it a try, starting with the original program. Fingers crossed!
if the half crimp was good for pulleys, perhaps a good hybrid between what you suggested and what emil did is to do half crimps 10 seconds on, 50 seconds off for pulley repair, and then do the other grip types at 30s on for the tendon repair?
What I learned, doing Emils protocol, is that it is possible to hold a grip in different ways while not positioning the hands differently. It’s very hard to explain. It taught me that I can pull with different parts of my hand and fingers, while not changing the positioning at all
I appreciate the dive into the primary literature in both videos. But I find it sort of amazing that you would propose a modified program of your own based only on a reading of the same paper (and your expert knowledge). Surely a study of different treatments on case and control climbers would be better? Re: periodization: is it still worthwhile if you live in a country where the season is year round?
Been doing the nohangs for about half a year, but mainly with an open grip position. I feel a clear improvement here in particular.
In the meantime, I had the feeling that I was recovering badly and that my forearms were permanently sore. By slightly reducing the intensity, I was able to improve this somewhat.
I love how approachable you make all these deep dives into the science. 👍 Keep up the great work.
Thank you very much!
I've been following Emil's training plan for few weeks now, and I might be a negative case. My finger health has deteriorated over the last few months. I already have a pretty intense training plan and adding this on top might have had negative effect for my fingers. I've felt a little achy after the Emil's drill one or two times. I think one of the downside of Emil's drill is that the intensity of hanging with feet down can be quite variable and hard to control. When your feet are one the ground, you could hang anywhere from 1% of your body weight to 99.99% of your body weight. In my case, I think I might have pushed it on the higher range where my body could have construed as a somewhat of an actual workout. I'm glad to have watched this video. I will definitely drop Emil's drill in my training plan for now :)
I used a pulley and weights for the first week to dial in the intensity of the hangs. Once I knew what each hang felt like I, I ditched the weights and did it by feel.
Use a scale to stand on, it's not perfect but does the job..
I had the same thing.
this channel is a gem
gyms should play this video on their tvs
I just saw this video in my recommended, and the videos I've watched from your channel already have been super helpful :)
I have been doing something similar to Emil everyday since his video and my fingers feel stronger and I have even sent some new lead routes outside.
What has the experience been like for you? I just started trying it out a couple of days ago so I'm curious to hear from others.
That was awesome!
It explained so much I read on the subject in a conclusive way, thank you for that.
Now I have a question:
With Emils' program we have a specific plan for tendon stiffness (2 times a day/ sub max/ 10on 50 off for 10 min for one month)
Could you outline the same for tendon compliance and health to balance the other program (frequenc, reps and sets and duration, load)
This would be a great tool in my the box of every climber!
Cheers from the hell for tendons and ligaments, the Frankenjura :)
Isn’t this similar to Eric Horst’s daily protocol? Have you reviewed this?
Hi! Could you show examples of the workouts you would do? Thanks :)
As someone who mainly climbs indoors, there isn't really an off season. For how long should I program the different periods?
Competition dates
Easy fix. Plan to get more outdoors, and voila ;)
Hi, thanks so much for making this video! I've actually been attempting a form of Emil's program myself. Because I definitely don't know as much about tendon health as you do, I was wondering if you could speak to the reasoning behind the time of 30 seconds as a period that will increase compliance of the tendon, as well as how you would suggest fitting that activation time into a program that "last 10 minutes" (which is amazingly vague, as you appropriately point out), given that 30 seconds on / 30 seconds off is definitely different (volume is the main concern here) than 10 seconds on / 50 seconds off (like in Emil's proposed routine).
I'm totally guessing as is everyone else to a certain extent. I think Emil's brother and Hooper have the best experience and study to advise a program but here's what I'm doing. I've just started with the original program 10 sec hang:50 sec rest x 10 for a month or more. Seriously, what's the harm compared to my years of way more stressful programs. I find that I have to actually focus on not going too hard because it's pretty easy. The challenge for me is on multiple sessions per day separated by 6 hours, since I'm not sacrificing my regular gym time. I plan to morph to the other proposed programs down the road. Probably go with Emil's new program next. At some point I might even go with 10 min continuous light hang switching to different grips on the minute, we'll see. It's got me thinking about other muscle/tendon systems that this might apply to so I can slip it into my 50 sec resting.
Great video! Love the depth of the analysis!
Love these videos! Keep it up they're very helpful for things I didn't even know I needed help with!
I’m just under a month of this style of periodization. I’m seeing really good results for my inflamed PIPs (capsulitus) - something that hasn’t been discussed in these vids. I also do reps of 10 on/off w a cumulative hang time of about 6 minutes. So far so good.
Hey, any updates on your PIP joint? I've had struggles with it for over a year and could not find a solution that worked for me, so far.
@@Maseconditioning yeah - here is my magic recipe: get a cortisone injection, rest a week, avoid fingertip slopers or closed crimps for awhile, feet on campus board to build some resistance, daily hangs if you can, ease off if the PIP flares up but don't stop climbing - just grab holds that don't hurt.
Between 8:30 and 9:00 you talk about how the frequent low load triggered healing of the pulleys in particular, which are used more in a half crimp, less/not at all in an open hand position. I did Emils Hangboard Routine for 29 days now, yet I used only an open hand position for testing and the routine itself. Does that mean i f* cked up and probably won't have similar results, based on the assumption of similar finger strenght and conditions in the beginning?
can you share your results after retest? i am also doing it at open hand position
@@umutsenliol9044 Of course! I'd say it still worked out great! To simplify, I will copy my comment from emils video:
I just finished 30 days of doing this hangboard routine twice a day, also made a small video about it.
summary: It worked great for me and I will continue with it in a modified way.
long read: Since I had no open gym available to me, I had to do everything at home. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough weight and no edges smaller than 10mm, so I couldn't do all MAX hangs Emil did and had to improvise. However, the Hangboard Routine stayed the same, as I have a Beastmaker 2000 at home. My starting level on the hangboard was pretty similar to Emils, so doing the same hangs with the same intensity was fine.
My starting MAX hangs were:
23mm edge right hand arm straight (11 sec), 23mm edge left hand arm straight (14,4 sec), 15mm edge right hand arm bent (1,6 sec), 15mm edge left hand arm bent (2 sec), 15mm edge both hands +10kg extra weight (39,3 sec), 10mm edge both hands + 10kg extra weight (23,9 sec)
My MAX hangs after 30 days were:
23mm edge right hand arm straight (22,3 sec), 23mm edge left hand arm straight (27 sec), 15mm edge right hand arm bent (7,6 sec), 15mm edge left hand arm bent (8,5 sec), 15mm edge both hands +10kg extra weight (54,1 sec), 10mm edge both hands + 10kg extra weight (42,8 sec)
Link to my video for proof: th-cam.com/video/0Bf0504L9ys/w-d-xo.html
Added the hangs in the spreadsheet as well.
Thanks Emil for the great Routine!
Hi! Short question: in this video you recommend 30s+ sub max hangs to promote healing. In the episode "Why your FINGER INJURY WON'T HEAL and HOW TO FIX IT" you recommend farmer crimps for 10s with 1min break also during recovery even if it was with lower load. Can you clarify things a little bit please?
How a good periodization would look like? For example: 2 month max strength training, after that 2 month healing?
I would also be interested in this!
Hey, do you think this protocol of frequent, low loads is in any way relate to Pavel Tsatsouline's "greasing the groove" phenomenon?
Absolutely fascinating! Instant subscription
Much thanks to Emil and Hooper. I had an interesting result from 2x per day hangs with toes on matt on 6 different holds mostly open handed (no pockets). My background is 14 years of climbing, with the longest single stretch off of 5 days. I vary intensity based on fatigue and will climb light for 1-2 weeks if a part of my body feels vulnerable. I do very little "training" at baseline, but rather use the campus and hang board for 3-5 sessions twice per year if I need that extra percent to send a project that has remained elusive. This twice a day protocol indeed led to a perceived increase strength. However, I blew a pulley on a smile shaped crimp on a moderate warmup at the end of the month protocol (my first injury in 14 years). It took 8 months to feel fully healed and ironically the light frequent loading was a big part of my recovery to full strength. As this is also an N=1, I can't draw any conclusions but it does beg the question if by using primarily open handed positions (in my version of the protocol) stiffened my tendons in excess of my ligaments, leaving my ligaments vulnerable to the increased "strength" of the tendon. What do you think Hooper?
I followed emil's plan for a month..skiping some times the weekends. It is true that my tendons got healthier, but did not increase any of my parameters cause I did not climb due the quarantine. Yesterday I tried total hangs and almost hurt my tendons. I think you gave the right explanation. He just got his tendons cured, he was already strong..but provably he was hurting more than recovering. After the program he had the same muscle, but 100% healthier.
I have two questions. First, wouldn’t Emil’s tendons become more compliant during this protocol? 10 seconds of eccentric, lightweight hangs would not have made his tendons stiffer right? Not nearly explosive enough (i.e. campusing or bouldering).
Second, what about neurological adaptations like disinhibition? Or strength gains in his shoulder muscles, allowing more force to be delivered through the fingers?
Love to hear your thoughts. Thanks.
Isometric*, lightweight hangs
You are amazing. Thanks for giving scientific explanations and explaining it in simple terms!
Great video!
Do you have any suggestions, or know where I can find suggestions of how to build up a session with 30 sec. holds? How many reps. how long rests and so fourth? Thanks!
Interested in your thoughts regarding the neuromuscular components contributing to Emil's improvements following this protocol. Good comments on central nervous system awareness and proprioception, but I suspect much of the strength gains he reported are due to overall improvements in neuromuscular recruitment of the FDP and FDS for the specific holds he trained, as well as proximal contributions from elbow, glenohumeral, parascapular, and trunk stability. More time under tension, despite load, would likely contribute to improved neuromotor recruitment altogether. Thanks for another great video, Jason!
Thanks for the thoughtful comment! I would imagine that is a possibility, but also since he has been climbing and routinely doing those things I don't know that it would have that strong of an impact. It could be a part of the equation, though!
Is there not a level where the sub maximal hangboarding doesn't cause increase in stiffness whether 10 seconds or 30 seconds regardless more of an active recovery level (seems weird to me for example if you held a two pound weight for 10 seconds stiff tendons but hold it for 30 seconds compliant tendons)? Or is that where the 30 second recommendation comes in meaning that for the desired submaximal level 30 seconds should a very comfortable amount of time based on the level. I have since added more of this no hang very submaximal with idea of active recovery but with the weight I am using 30 seconds would be easy to do as I am keeping really light. Also with the 30 seconds on what rest would you recommend? 30 on 30 off for 10 minutes?
You are killing it doc! Keep up the amazing work!
Excellent -- very informative. Thanks!
Awesome video ! The only thing I am missing is an actual alternative to the proposed training plan. I know I can switch it off to max hangs but I am unsure on how to actually put that into a 10 min schedule.
There is one thing that still confuses me. So when you say you are more prone to injury, do you mean the muscles that are being stretched by the stiffer, less compliant tendon? Or is the pulley also more prone to injury because you will be climbing or hangblarding with more strength that the pulley isn't thick enough for? Or both?
i think is not about the musvles, but the tendons
Can the principal of using longer sub-maximal forces to increase tendon compliance and promote tissue healing be generally applied to other exercises? For example, holding support position on gymnastics rings or parallel bars as opposed to doing dips, or active hangs rather than pull ups?
Great video my dude!! I’m a little confused on the aspect of weather or not this would be a good training regiment to add to my routine? Or if it’s just going to increase the chance of injury, which you mentioned? I understand block training and how important it is. What I gather, again I may be wrong, since emils training regiment increases crimp strength, a good time to train would be during sending season which would be now. Then, summer which is off season for me, would be a good time to start power and strength training, then before winter, start the 30 second regiment on good holds for recovery before sending the gnar? I’m curious what you think?
Seems like a straight forward question but has a lot going on with it. If my conjecture is correct in that he improved his strength by stiffening his tendons in that short period of time without thickening the tendon it *could* lead to an increase risk in injury. But, as far as we know, Emil didn't suffer a catastrophic injury so he may just be cruising, having a great time. Because it is variable and a n = 1, I wouldn't want to specifically say "based upon that, you should do this". In the block / periodization style of things, the best time to do the recommended alternative is actually early. Periodized training, in a really simple way, looks like this: high volume low load -> low volume high load -> focus on performance / technique training. So using your model, your offseason would be a good time for a 3-4 week break to recover and heal, then a high volume low load program (such as the 30 second submax holds 2x/day), then work into higher load lower volume (such as more regular hangboard work, strength training, etc), then finally focus on your actual climbing during your sending season. Again, this is more of a "black and white" picture, and periodized training isn't perfect. Emil could have unlocked something special here with the way he did it... can't say with 100% certainty.
Not sure that this exactly answers your question 100% but hopefully it provides some insight!
Pulling from both ends is the same as anchoring one end and pulling the other. Try getting an elastic band to only stretch at one end
Hi,
I am trying to find data to back up your claim of doing 30-second hangs would help improve tendon compliance. So far I've only found one paper that seems to compare isometric duration to tendon stiffness. "Effects of different duration isometric contractions on tendon elasticity in human quadriceps muscles" which showed that the longer duration isometric actually increased tendon stiffness over the shorter isometrics.
Another study "Effects of isometric training on the elasticity of human tendon structures in vivo" also showed an increase in tendon stiffness from 20 second isometrics, whilst another "Effects of isometric squat training on the tendon stiffness and jump performance" also showed significant increases in stiffness with a 15 second isometric.
Have you stumbled across any other papers in this area that are worth looking over?
Yeah I can't take this channel seriously.
Hey thanks for the good analysis. Highly appreciated.
What do you think of doing the protocol with dayly 30+s hangs as you suggest parallel with Max hangs 2 times per week?
I´m not sure but it seems that those two work contrary to each other. increasing compliance and stiffening ...
It would be nice to hear your oppinion!
cheers
Could your protocol (longer 30 sec hangs) be considered useful for rehabbing golfer's elbow or would it only be considered useful for changing the compliance/stiffness of tendons and ligaments in the fingers?
They actually have done research with that protocol on the Achilles (calf) as well! Short point being it can certainly be done for other body parts, including elbow :)
@@HoopersBeta I should have been more specific. Would hanging be helpful for rehabbing golfer's elbow or would it be more productive to do a similar protocol with golfer's elbow-specific "physio" exercises, like dumbbells wrist rotations? Thanks for the quick reply!
Great job Hoop :). really appreciate you doing things you're pro at. No waste, still fun
thanks for the review!
How are we not talking about that Keith Baar's paper is about connective tissue (not muscle) and that it doesn't make much sense to apply the findings on strength training? Sure, Hooper mentions a possible benefit of stronger connective tissue being that one allows oneself to pull harder (less pain or some other inhibitive feedback?), but connective tissue is just a tiny part of the strength equation. It really didn't make much sense to apply a protocol for how to build connective tissue on a strength training program in the first place. The paper Emil's training programmed was modeled on really doesn't provide anything in the way of suggesting thay he would see strength gains (although congratz on those, Emil!).
Great video and explanation! The one lingering question I had from Emil's video pertained to his training before starting this hang program. I had the same thoughts on periodization shift being the primary cause for his gains (ie tapering before a big event). I think knowing what he was doing before he started his program would help shed some light on this. Was he doing regular hang boarding before starting? At what intensity and interval? An elite level climber would be loading and training at much higher intensity than this program. So is he really decreasing compliance and thus increase chance of injury? So many unknowns.
Where can I signup to be a test subject to repeat this 30 day hangboard method? Enough hangboards were probably bought worldwide during lockdowns that this shouldn’t be too hard right?
Could you effectively train tendon compliance as well as tendon stiffness by alternating training methods on a daily basis? Say use a shorter hangs for stiffness M/W/F and longer hands for compliance T/Th/Sat. Would this effectively reduce your potential success from either training plan or would it improve both tendon health and force output?
I dont understand why if Emils programm is a "light one", it increases the stiffnes...
How often should I do max hangs?
How many sets?
How many weeks should I do submax and what period should I do it, during the rest period?
I need answers!
Really great video. If you were to turn this into a tendon thickening routine what would the changes be? You mentioned longer hangs, but what about the loading? Would the amount of weight you are pulling remain the same just for 30 seconds rather than 10? Similar number of sets & reps?
Yes, I had these exact same questions!!! It seems that Emil's program increases tendon stiffness and the risk of injury, so should we do longer hangs instead or as well?? Should we keep everything the same except change 10 second hangs for longer 30 second hangs? Or some sets with 10 second hangs and others with 30 seconds? Or does the entire program need to be redesigned???
All I gathered was that the training regime needs to be continued for a minimum of 8 weeks. However, it’s a little misleading as it’s not like the tendons will magically grow at the 8 week mark while staying the same size for the weeks leading up.
What we get from the video is that Emil's training is great for healing, and pro climbers will do that in the off season. After that you need to do max hangs to actually improve your strength... That's what I understood. It's not that it's bad, it's just that it's the first step
This is a great video. I’m not a climber and I cannot afford a membership to a climbing gym. But this information is obviously applicable to every kind of sport.
Thank you Jason for your interpretation. I am still missing the link between time of application to tendon thickness.
I understood that tendon thickness increases after at least 2 months of training.
Would tendon size increase as well with Emil's program? (10x10s/50s)
Why tendon stiffness is decreased with more application than less?
Isn't the bicep curl analogy useless? Since we are talking about training muscle Vs the ligaments etc? I thought that was the whole point.
I've been thinking about this video since I first watched it months ago, and I have come to disagree with the conclusion. Hooper is saying that Emil's strength gains came from stiffening the tendon, which also increases injury risk. However, this does not really make sense to me. What I understand is the opposite. Emil's strength improved because he aligned his tendon fibers by making them more compliant due to the 10 second duration of his hangs. Had he done shorter duration hangs (5s or less) and higher intensity, he could have stiffened the tendon. Stiffening requires "high velocity" training, like campusing, and I do not think 10s hangs fall into this category. Also, if Emil had actually stiffened the tendon, he would have been able to increase his rate of force development, but not necessarily his ability to hang for a long time. I actually think this protocol done by Emil has made his tendons more compliant, less likely to be injured, and also likely decreased his rate of force development while also increasing his overall strength. I'm curious if others have drawn similar conclusions?
Same exact thought.
What is the difference between force development and overall strength?
@@Frodoswaggns I was referring to "'rate of force development" which is akin to power. The difference between strength and power is that power is dependent upon time/rate
I keep hearing collagen synthesis but what is the best way to get collagen into your system? How much do I need to eat and how long before a workout so that my tendons are getting the nutrients they need? Can I just eat a bowl of Jello 45 minutes before I exercise my fingers and call it a day?
This was so good and inspiring. Actually both videos were and I did try the approach, bit more for recovery... I love getting the expertise served well and refer to something that people in youtube recognize well. Go for colab with Magnus, this will surely boost your channel
Glad you enjoyed it, thank you for your comment!
Would be fantastic to get a reply to this. My thoughts are creating a regime where i cycle the stiffness and compliance training throughout the year maybe 2 weeks on emils routine into 2 weeks into stiffness. maybe applying Stiffness and Compliance training into 1 rounded routine could be the most optimum, or a Stiffness regime in the morning and compliance in the evening? Or maybe the best way is to cycle it into pre / post / during the season. What are your thoughts on this, would be good if Hooper himself could reply, would have been good if he outlined a regime modifying emils.
Hi! I love your channel.
Where do you search papers for climbing? I'm a physical therapist very interested in climbing rehab and training.
Have a nice day
Most often I use pubmed but I have increased access to full articles through my university.
From a mechanical point of view having one end fixed and applying strain is the same as having both ends free and half strain applied to each. The restoring force means this will always be true.
don't forget that elongation is always measured as %
or most papers being much more vague and harder to reproduce than this
or that compliant tendons and ligaments are more prone to injury
or that sports medicine regularly debunks itself and to this day most textbooks will contain alternative "medicine" that was debunked 50 years ago
Nice and helpful video! Thanks for the explanations :-) I was thinking about applying it myself.
Anyone know what the sources are for stiffer tendons being more injury prone and longer sub max holds improving tendon compliance? Would love to check them out
Also, judging from the science shouldn't we actually so this three times a day at least?
Yes :) I think that's just much harder for people to fit into their routine/daily life
So Hooper, would you say this would be good to do at the beginning of a new periodization. Say a 3 week training block with ARC training for a base fitness phase before a strength block?
Yeah that would work, with the lower intensity ARC training you can heal up your connective tissue, work on some endurance, and get prepped for a more aggressive strength training block. Good question / thought.
Hey Hooper! I had a quick question about the idea of block training. So at the moment, i have a goal which isn't project based, more... grade based. I want to get my first 8a boulder, and currently I am around the 7a/7a+ mark. Since I don't have a project in mind, how do you determine what the off season, pre-season, on season etc is if you don't have any specific projects? thanks! :)
Wow, way to break it down for us. Thanks!
amazing !!!! great content
Your critique of the research paper is not being specific enough. However, I did not hear a specific recommendation on how to alter Emil's routine for it to be more beneficial for tendon health. Sets, reps, time, frequency etc.
So does this mean that long endurance tendons that are stiff actually make you less quick? Would being able to finger hang for ages affect your typing or trigger finger speed?
I tried emils training plan for 4 days but had to stop because of a sharp pain in my left finger. Weird because it should be a healing excercice... if you advise it in a periodisation do you think than for a period of 1 month?
It's hard to get the intensity right; Emil is extremely strong so if even he keeps his feet on the floor... most climbers trying to emulate his program should really feel like the intensity is ridiculously easy.
@@alexgalays910 I should probably make the exercise less hard. I m at 150% body weight where Emil has 200% for a 5sec hang on the 20mm beastmaker. So I should adjust the exercise to 3/4the of the pressure / weight on my fingers.
I see your problem... The problem is you only have two fingers. A left and a right. Take it easy.
Great in-depth Video!
Just to be sure, I have a question:
I´m currently dealing with some light inner elbow pain from training. Are 30+ sec light hangs or "no hangs" good for healing the tendon quicker and making it less prone to injury?
Brilliant idea. If this basic science can be applied to finger rehab and training then why not epicondylitis!
so what would be a good protocol that achieves the 10 mins of activity then?
Does anyone know if this technique can be applied to starting out with dead hangs?
What would happen if you implemented the ~30sec sub max hangs in replace of the 10 sec hangs emil did but later in the day you did max hangs to increase strength? Would the compliance training in the morning even out the stiff (max hanging) training done in the afternoon? Or would it somehow promote healing and increasing strength at the same time?
ok, so if I were to, for example, follow Emil's plan for 8 weeks instead of 4 so that instead of getting the crosslinking of collagen and elastin I go for the tendon hypertrophy, could I make the effects stick, thus increasing my strength without increasing risk of injury? :D
Excellent video. Can help athletes in all disciplines. Have you studied the way armwrestlers train and use active recovery? There would be a huge crossover there. I wonder if tendons of the hand and arm respond similarly to training compared to an Achilles, for example.
I got two central slip injuries. I went 8 weeks last year on my RH pinky and now realizing I have a mild one in my LH middle. I have seen improvement in using PT putty, what exercises do you recommend to strength central slip/extensor tendons in fingers?
Such a good video! As always!