I think this may be one of the most involved restorations you have done to date of any piece of equipment. This is truly showing the depth of your skills.
Wow - I had no idea that 70's cassette decks were this complicated. Imagine the main motor using an electro/mechanical centrifugal governor, for speed control. It reminds me of an old fly-ball steam engine governor. Who would have thought, how cool is that! Thank you John for a great video
Ive had a lot of good fortune with lightly sanding the idler tire and then using rubber renew. It takes a fair amount of use to have the rubber actually wear down (even after all of these years since they were built. Same has worked for pinch rollers.
I bought one of these back in the late 70s. When I first played a vinyl album on my pioneer PL-630, I'd record it to Maxell Metal tape and then play the tape exclusively from then on (even on such a high end turntable, you could tell that each playback degraded the surfaces ever so slightly). I used the CT-F1250 so much, that by the mid 80s, I had already worn out the idler (it would slip from time to time, the take up reel would stop, and the anti jam mechanism would stop the tape). Other things I noticed before that happened... 1. the erase head was so strong, that after recording one side of a tape (and playing back to see levels), if you recorded on side B after that, the right channel (I think) would be a few dB lower on side A. I figured it was to compensate for metal tapes, so I just recorded side a little stronger on that channel, and when I recorded the other side, it evened out. 2. Initially, I could set the BIAS, LEVEL, EQ (in that order), but after a few years of lots of use, I couldn't get EQ to center anymore. I figured it was because maybe the heads were worn from so much use, but maybe it could have been components no longer in spec. I really don't know. 3. I was never a fan of the Dolby Noise Reduction (on any tape player), if you recorded with Dolby, then used Dolby to play back, it didn't sound as natural to me. Somewhat subdued in the high end compared to the original source I recorded from (usually vinyl). But this wasn't just this deck, it was all tape players I've recorded on. Anyway, I'll be waiting to see how your restoration goes. Good luck, and hope you are happy with the results. I loved the deck myself.
Thanks for the supplier information, it's nice to see that your have an apprentice, pass on the knowledge before it's lost. Which is exactly what your videos are doing thank you Tony.
You hit the nail on the head. The problem with cassette decks is they are reproducing the sound mechanically. There are so many mechanical parts that can affect the sound. Those drive motors had some good engineering done on them. Pretty amazing how the motor regulates the speed internally. Back in the 70s they really knew how to build things.
Fantastic segment Tony! I enjoyed the thorough explanation of wear point interrelationships you gave. A little bit of wear is to be expected after all these years, but a little in several places can have catastrophic effects, in this case in the transport mechanism operation and tape play quality. The right way takes time and patience; do it right, do it once...or do it again. Cheers Tony!
I remember seeing this deck for sale when I went to pick up my Marantz 2385 using my Navy nuclear power bonus, in 1981. The beautiful blue fluorescent level indicators were calling me, but it must have been very expensive, enough that I resisted and bought a more economical Hitachi deck (which turned out to be a tape-eating disaster that even factory service could not correct...). The sales lit from Pioneer called this 1250 the "dream machine", designed with no holds barred. The problem, as I see it, is that this generous development budget allowed Pioneer to design a unique and esoteric mechanism, instead of using an off the shelf, industry standard transport module. This resulted in awesome performance, but also made servicing and repair so much more challenging. That direct drive capstan motor, with hall effect- servo function, would be a bear to fix or replace. Even the "high torque" hub drive motor, with its centrifugal speed governor looks like a PIA to replacement (nice job cleaning, btw). Give me a well made mid-level deck (no Dragon nonsense, either....), either 2 or 3 head, using standard motors and belts. They sound really good when serviced and set up properly, without the dream machine fuss and muss. I guess it is like cars; you have to really love wrenching on them to own an Alfa Romeo or BMW, if you just want your car to perform reliably, you buy a Toyota. I guess I prefer Toyota-esque audio gear. But hats off to you, Tony, for not being daunted by this machine. You are a better man than I, Gunga Din, and I know you will sort it out, in the end. I'm prepared for Parts 3, 4, 5, etc., the full and epic journey.
Hi Tony, this relates more to the first video, but you were mentioning rolled off frequency response. Your big band tape was marked as Chrome so you selected Chrome on the deck. However some pre-recorded Chrome tapes are equalised so they have the correct response on the "normal" setting. The biggest tell tale is the presence (or not) of the coding notches adjacent to the record prevention tabs. Notch = Chrome EQ. No notch = Normal EQ. The later "metal" coding notches are nearer the centre. I know you went on to say this also affected your other test tape too, so in this case wouldn't have been the issue
FYI: I had a few tires from a NAK MR1 / BX300, works perfectly for this deck. An old trick is if it's too wide, turn the tire on a drill over 1000 grit fixed to a (3rd hand). The right azimuth adj. bolt head was butchered on this deck, this is likely why the freq. rec/ playback is off in 8K-11K range. NAK uses a 10K ref tape for correct azimuth alignment.
Very impressive and I'm glad I found this restoration. I and went to the Slovakian site but can't find anything on Pioneer decks. Could anyone give me the correct dimensions of the idler wheel tire, please? So I can make an order, I've heard so much of wrong size tires and would avoid trial and error to find the right tire from start.
Great Tape deck, the Good thing was it never Eat Tapes, The bad thing was it never Eat Tapes which caused it to stall to offen (even as New). I'm glad you pick this unit, I have some of the Ct-850,and Ct9xx and I stop working on them lol. This line of Pioneer recorded better than store bought tapes which were Basically Junk. WARNING!! Not all brands of Tapes worked w Pioneer CT- Tape deck.The Best Tape was TDK , The TDK for some reason, I think it had the best rollers in the cassette it self, I found that other tapes were wound up to tight and never loosen up enough to work very good and caused all kinds of problems w the torque motor and caused to to shut off . (I had to rewind / Fast forward the other bands to loosen them up) but putting them in a different tape desk caused them to tighten up again) So if you find problem - shutting off, it might be the cassette brand not the deck itself . Good luck!
Even VCR's seem less complex! I remember the little trick of turning idler tyres inside-out to get a little more mileage out of them. Sometimes you'd get away with it, sometimes not! Alas, such is life..
Nice change in subject..... especially since you hate working on cassette decks. I too have a love/hate relationship with them. When they are working well. they are marvels. But they never seem to work well for extended periods of time. Thanks and I look forward to seeing it working well in the end.
Tony, you need a punching bag there in the lab for those moments of getting crazy. Maybe even a couple of bottles of bubbly. Still I love the old machines.....to a degree. Good stuff bud !
Im with ya on the cassette thing,got into a ct f9191,rewind clutch was toast,had to bail till I can find a good one,lots of coffee required to work on these for sure lol
I was thinking how easy it would be to lose that clip when you were talking about taking it apart. Cassettes were not great but they sure beat the 8 tracks. I've been thinking about getting a Nakamichi for my system but the Pioneers are pretty cool. Enjoying the show!
I just finished replacing belts and rebuilding the take up motor and the tape path is working great now. Frequency is spot on and holds. The problem is the amplitude is jumping around on both channels using any frequency test tone and my oscilloscope. I have not begun any calibrations yet and maybe its just a dirty pot but wondered if you had any idea's? Maybe in the amplification circuit. Both channels jump exactly the same.
When I came back to TH-cam around 2017 I was shocked to discover the enormous amount of interest and buzz around cassette decks. I tried to warn them but they wouldn't listen. Those who do not study history are DOOMED to repeat it! 😂 (I use an iPod.)
25:40 Why not just swap the two spools? They look to be identical, and the takeup spool is probably more worn than the other from being under constant tension and use, so swapping them around might improve things on the takeup side.
Actually, the idler has less to do with a steady tape speed since the capstan rotation is responsible for that. The take-up reel just needs to spin fast enough to wind the tape without creating slack. I suspect that the W&F issues come from both pinch rollers being worn and the connecting belt between the take-up and supply capstan flywheels that probably hasn't settled in yet, has a slightly wrong size or is of average quality. Since this is a closed-loop dual capstan, there needs to be a constant tension on the tape between both pinch rollers and anything in this system will make the W&F go haywire. New pinch rollers will go a long way, as well as squeaky clean capstans and well-oiled capstan bearings. The wobbling idler isn't nice, but as long as the take-up torque is within specs and the reel doesn't exceed a speed that will cause the tape to slip through the take-up capstan and pinch roller, this shouldn't be an immediate issue for W&F. Also, back-tension torque on the supply reel must be constant and not too high.
I would add that other than the capstan loop, the only other possibility that the clicking idler could affect the w & f would be a sticking or tight clutch mechanism in the takeup reel assembly introducing the flutter via the actual tape. Early 2-head Naks had a takeup reel clutch that quickly froze, and that was replaced easily in the field by an adhesive-backed felt ring and a matching no-clutch takeup reel.
I understand what you're saying, but the tension needs to be kept constant. I think a bigger question is what's supposed to slip to maintain tension but letting the capstan determine the speed? I haven't seen him address the slip clutch. I think it's built within the reel.
the pinch rollers require correct pressure against the capstan. Also, if the washer is too tight against pinch roller bushing it creates resistance. Lastly a drop of PLP inside the bushing helps alot. Both capstans should also have a drop of PLP in the shaft they spin in. The study of metallurgy is critical in these mechanically driven machines. A mirror cassette will show any tape path deviation, stress, & resistance. There should be a max. of +/-5Hz on a 3150 test tape from a reference deck like B215, 3014A, etc.
Hi Tony, I recently repaired a CT-F950 on my channel if you are interested in getting my perspective on these machines. The 1250 may be better, however the bias calibration etc on the 950 is a real pain. Also there are some errors on the 950 service manual which may not have been corrected for the 1250, dunno. I used to be a TO and AV technician and now repair hifi gear in my retirement. 1 I have been warned against using lithium based grease for plastic wheels and I tend to agree, I use silicon based grease such as Dow Corning DC4, but there may be others. Do your own research. 2 If you take apart the sled be careful to not lose the 6 ball bearings above and below the sliding plate. 3 Yours may be ok but I found the spring pulling the idler tyre against the hubs wasn't strong enough and had to shorten mine by a coil or two. 4 Thanks for info about sources for pinch roller repair and tyre source. Everything is o/s for me so that's not a problem. I'm in Oz. 5 Yes, repairing those small motors is hard. I've once accidently bent the brush arm on one but managed to recover it. I saw the governor on the reel motor and wondered how it operated, so it's an extra set of coils, nice to know. 6 I ended up using the take up pinch roller for the supply position as it was in reasonable condition. I bought a new pinch roller for the take-up but it is of a larger diameter as I feel it would only enhance the pinch, plus I couldn't find a source for the original size. I will check out Terry's business if I have trouble again as it's always best to use original sizing even if the original design was lacking. 7 Sound quality is very good, especially playback. Recording is ok but I have one audio track for test recording (called "Chocolate Mousse" an electronic dance number, don't know artist) that gives me problems . It is a burst of cymbals of very high frequency and it gives trouble when recording. Notably many machines are troubled by this burst of HF, except for all Nakamichis I've tried, amazingly. I suspect HXPro but can't be sure yet. The 950 doesn't have HXPro and it exhibits this issue. Anyway, just a thought that you check response thoroughly and try recording really high frqs such as the high tinkles from a drum set. The design for bias in the 950 is a kludge , I hope it's better for the 1250.
If the two big rollers are the same (drive and rewind,) maybe you could swap their positions to improve the remaining shudder. Wobble on rewind doesn't matter as much. Or, maybe you could true the drive shudder on a lathe.
A lot of those belts and rubber guide wheels can be regenerated back to new, put them in some boiling water in a glass jar and put them in a microwave for 15 minutes covering the Jar reforms them and back to shape. Ideally checking the rubber belt after it's put on sometimes they can be flipped around as well for true roundness some course wet and dry 120g can be used gently on a file to get true roundness. I had a lot of these modern belts if they're not exactly the same thickness will throw your wow and Flutter out should say in the schematics or manual for the mechanical parts what the thickness should be and width of belts and length. Put a spot of grease on the ends of the bushes
@@musicstevecom2 yes belts fickle thing and they need to be manufactured well probably silicone belt would be best bet you need to know the tension of the original rubber these figures must be out there somewhere
Hi Tony, what's your take on this idea: to measure the tape speed if one doesn't have special test tape ie fixed frequency, can one not physically measure a specific length of tape with some marks that correspond to a specified time and use the fact that tape speed should be 4.75cm per sec. So 1425 cm equates to 5 min play back. Would this not be accurate to adjust tape speed without special test tapes? It would need an old cassette to be opened and the tape measured and marked with a tape measure, and accurately timed with stop watch. Your thoughts? Love your channel. Thks.
21:36 For testing the head without rotating parts, is to use a MP3 to cassette adapter, those where used back in the old days, to connect a MP3 player/Discman to a car radio that only got a cassette deck and no aux input. Like this : postimg.cc/zbM5SMVc
I think it's a good idea. Tony has to disassemble both and replace only the upper part. The rewind has a belt pulley on the bottom. Also, the clutch has to be checked.
Old Analogue Tape decks seem to last longer than the Digital Compact Cassette which I had but it seems like the unit needs recapping as it will no longer play either analogue or Digital Compact Cassette, I think that Philips should have gone with a rotary cecord head i.e. RDAT rather than a fixed 9 track tape head.
Were you able to get the rebuilt pinch rollers from Terry ? He's fighting some serious Covid19 health problems. As a last resort I use MG Chem. rubber renew with cuetip. Equal strokes on entire roller - restores pinch roller with minimal diameter reduction.
@@xraytonyb I tested mine at +11.76 FF / -11.76 FR. My motor needs service cause it hesitates in FF direction. What do you think about usin JB on the cap cover ridge instead of peening it ? I'm afraid peening it will throw off the harmonic balance. Pioneer probably used a press plate.
hello, I see that you restored it, I have one and although it plays well, I have not been able to make it record correctly, they have told me that it is not the recording head, I also have a problem with the integrated pulse counter of the capstan motor, the chip it has is the PD1003, I wanted to ask you, and if you know IF IT HAS ANY REPLACEMENT THAT CAN REPLACE IT, because that chip was encapsulated by pioneer and I can't get its datasheet anywhere, I know it's a pulse counter but I don't know but nothing. I appreciate if you can give me some information.
As of August 19-2021 - Terry's website states: (Hope Terry Pulls Through !!!) Attention I am currently fighting Pneumonia and Covid 19 Please refrain from sending any items until further notice. Any packages that have been received will be processed at a later time, and will not be descarded. Thank you for your patience Terry Witt June 11, 2021
Listen to the rhythm of the ticking noise Telling me just how worn it is I wish that it was that it was fixed and that it worked again To listen to my songs again :D
Love looking back on these electromechanical marvels but glad digital technology has taken its place and provides much more convenience and better sound quality.
If a guy can find a high end 90's vintage Sony 3 head deck, they're about a million times easier to service and sound just as good as these old Pioneer decks.
You can buy the "electronic cleaner" in Europe branded as "Kontakt WL", which is made by CRC aswell. The stuff can clean seized up mechanical parts aswell, though you make want to heat the particular part with a hair dryer at first and as your moving the part back and forth you spray it with the cleaner and it soaks in by it self. In the end you wanna lubricate the part.
Ha! Repaired a classic Panasonic boom box with reverse playback and this is exactly what I did with one of the idler tire- rubber O-ring. Had to shave it with with knife and sandpaper, to get it a bit smaller diameter and better match for the OEM square profile. Worked great!
i have 2-- pioneer 580 decks just like that one in the outher room half apart ready for me to throw in trash with a lot of good parts in them just to much for me to fix as you are finding out -i hate to throw all this in trash when people are going crazy trying to find paets i will throw in trash -a lot of sony stuff to all free if some one wants items wc
repairing these are a lot of work and you need a system to keep track of all the little parts and a system to make sure where they go when putting it back together (pics and videos) and how to prevent little parts from flying off when taking them apart, like you I looked at the belt I need to replace and stopped working and thinking how can I get to that belt and thing I don't have time to do this and a system and room to do it.
I can hardly hear above 10 khz in either ear. Send it to me. :-) Can you 3D print tires? People are doing it with O-Rings. I never hear the background noises TH-camrs apologize for. If you decide you want more tape decks, I have three non-functional Sony DAT mini-decks, none of which work at all. Compared with cassettes, these are horrors.
My restoration technician said this series PIONEER cassette deck are the worst things ever made.I brought one in to have the belts and rollers installed. I had them already to go. They said nope not worth repairing save your money.
Hi I have a CT F-1250 and an RT 909 and several that need replacement of wear parts, I would like to ask you if you are able to repair them if I send them to you. and can you reply to my email so we can communicate Regards, Lars.
Tony said it was too touchy to clean on camera due to his camera arrangement. He would have to reach over and around the camera to fiddle with it. I understand your frustration though. Refurbishing one of these motors is something we all would love to see in its entirety. I too have a 1250 that needs this done as the playback drops out due to a dead spot on the armature. I have read the thread on how to do this on AudioKarma, but a video would be even better yes. This job really needs its own video and perhaps it can be done if the camera was placed differently in order to get unfettered access to it.
I think this may be one of the most involved restorations you have done to date of any piece of equipment. This is truly showing the depth of your skills.
Wow - I had no idea that 70's cassette decks were this complicated. Imagine the main motor using an electro/mechanical centrifugal governor, for speed control. It reminds me of an old fly-ball steam engine governor. Who would have thought, how cool is that! Thank you John for a great video
I knew you were a brilliant electronics engineer, now I see that you are also very good at mechanics
Ive had a lot of good fortune with lightly sanding the idler tire and then using rubber renew. It takes a fair amount of use to have the rubber actually wear down (even after all of these years since they were built. Same has worked for pinch rollers.
I bought one of these back in the late 70s. When I first played a vinyl album on my pioneer PL-630, I'd record it to Maxell Metal tape and then play the tape exclusively from then on (even on such a high end turntable, you could tell that each playback degraded the surfaces ever so slightly). I used the CT-F1250 so much, that by the mid 80s, I had already worn out the idler (it would slip from time to time, the take up reel would stop, and the anti jam mechanism would stop the tape). Other things I noticed before that happened...
1. the erase head was so strong, that after recording one side of a tape (and playing back to see levels), if you recorded on side B after that, the right channel (I think) would be a few dB lower on side A. I figured it was to compensate for metal tapes, so I just recorded side a little stronger on that channel, and when I recorded the other side, it evened out.
2. Initially, I could set the BIAS, LEVEL, EQ (in that order), but after a few years of lots of use, I couldn't get EQ to center anymore. I figured it was because maybe the heads were worn from so much use, but maybe it could have been components no longer in spec. I really don't know.
3. I was never a fan of the Dolby Noise Reduction (on any tape player), if you recorded with Dolby, then used Dolby to play back, it didn't sound as natural to me. Somewhat subdued in the high end compared to the original source I recorded from (usually vinyl). But this wasn't just this deck, it was all tape players I've recorded on.
Anyway, I'll be waiting to see how your restoration goes. Good luck, and hope you are happy with the results. I loved the deck myself.
Thanks for the supplier information, it's nice to see that your have an apprentice, pass on the knowledge before it's lost. Which is exactly what your videos are doing thank you Tony.
You hit the nail on the head. The problem with cassette decks is they are reproducing the sound mechanically. There are so many mechanical parts that can affect the sound. Those drive motors had some good engineering done on them. Pretty amazing how the motor regulates the speed internally. Back in the 70s they really knew how to build things.
Fantastic segment Tony! I enjoyed the thorough explanation of wear point interrelationships you gave. A little bit of wear is to be expected after all these years, but a little in several places can have catastrophic effects, in this case in the transport mechanism operation and tape play quality. The right way takes time and patience; do it right, do it once...or do it again. Cheers Tony!
You're on a mission to complete the task! Thank you!
I remember seeing this deck for sale when I went to pick up my Marantz 2385 using my Navy nuclear power bonus, in 1981. The beautiful blue fluorescent level indicators were calling me, but it must have been very expensive, enough that I resisted and bought a more economical Hitachi deck (which turned out to be a tape-eating disaster that even factory service could not correct...). The sales lit from Pioneer called this 1250 the "dream machine", designed with no holds barred. The problem, as I see it, is that this generous development budget allowed Pioneer to design a unique and esoteric mechanism, instead of using an off the shelf, industry standard transport module. This resulted in awesome performance, but also made servicing and repair so much more challenging. That direct drive capstan motor, with hall effect- servo function, would be a bear to fix or replace. Even the "high torque" hub drive motor, with its centrifugal speed governor looks like a PIA to replacement (nice job cleaning, btw). Give me a well made mid-level deck (no Dragon nonsense, either....), either 2 or 3 head, using standard motors and belts. They sound really good when serviced and set up properly, without the dream machine fuss and muss. I guess it is like cars; you have to really love wrenching on them to own an Alfa Romeo or BMW, if you just want your car to perform reliably, you buy a Toyota. I guess I prefer Toyota-esque audio gear. But hats off to you, Tony, for not being daunted by this machine. You are a better man than I, Gunga Din, and I know you will sort it out, in the end. I'm prepared for Parts 3, 4, 5, etc., the full and epic journey.
Well, if you are going to dive into a complex Cassette deck, this series of Pioneer decks is a good choice to restore!
Hi Tony, this relates more to the first video, but you were mentioning rolled off frequency response.
Your big band tape was marked as Chrome so you selected Chrome on the deck.
However some pre-recorded Chrome tapes are equalised so they have the correct response on the "normal" setting.
The biggest tell tale is the presence (or not) of the coding notches adjacent to the record prevention tabs.
Notch = Chrome EQ.
No notch = Normal EQ.
The later "metal" coding notches are nearer the centre.
I know you went on to say this also affected your other test tape too, so in this case wouldn't have been the issue
FYI: I had a few tires from a NAK MR1 / BX300, works perfectly for this deck. An old trick is if it's too wide, turn the tire on a drill over 1000 grit fixed to a (3rd hand). The right azimuth adj. bolt head was butchered on this deck, this is likely why the freq. rec/ playback is off in 8K-11K range. NAK uses a 10K ref tape for correct azimuth alignment.
Very impressive and I'm glad I found this restoration.
I and went to the Slovakian site but can't find anything on Pioneer decks. Could anyone give me the correct dimensions of the idler wheel tire, please? So I can make an order,
I've heard so much of wrong size tires and would avoid trial and error to find the right tire from start.
Great Tape deck, the Good thing was it never Eat Tapes, The bad thing was it never Eat Tapes which caused it to stall to offen (even as New). I'm glad you pick this unit, I have some of the Ct-850,and Ct9xx and I stop working on them lol. This line of Pioneer recorded better than store bought tapes which were Basically Junk.
WARNING!! Not all brands of Tapes worked w Pioneer CT- Tape deck.The Best Tape was TDK , The TDK for some reason, I think it had the best rollers in the cassette it self, I found that other tapes were wound up to tight and never loosen up enough to work very good and caused all kinds of problems w the torque motor and caused to to shut off . (I had to rewind / Fast forward the other bands to loosen them up) but putting them in a different tape desk caused them to tighten up again) So if you find problem - shutting off, it might be the cassette brand not the deck itself . Good luck!
Even VCR's seem less complex! I remember the little trick of turning idler tyres inside-out to get a little more mileage out of them. Sometimes you'd get away with it, sometimes not! Alas, such is life..
I totally agree with all the issues you're having!!
Most impressive restoration of the tape transport.
Nice change in subject..... especially since you hate working on cassette decks. I too have a love/hate relationship with them. When they are working well. they are marvels. But they never seem to work well for extended periods of time. Thanks and I look forward to seeing it working well in the end.
Tony, you need a punching bag there in the lab for those moments of getting crazy. Maybe even a couple of bottles of bubbly. Still I love the old machines.....to a degree. Good stuff bud !
That one in Slovakia is the same place I ordered belts for my Aiwa. Their stuff is top notch.
Im with ya on the cassette thing,got into a ct f9191,rewind clutch was toast,had to bail till I can find a good one,lots of coffee required to work on these for sure lol
Yep, lots of caffeine during and lots of red wine after.
Go over to Audiokarma and PM markthefixer. He rebuilt the clutch on my CT-F 9191and it works as new.
Dan
@@solarman30 thanks will do!
I was thinking how easy it would be to lose that clip when you were talking about taking it apart. Cassettes were not great but they sure beat the 8 tracks. I've been thinking about getting a Nakamichi for my system but the Pioneers are pretty cool. Enjoying the show!
I just finished replacing belts and rebuilding the take up motor and the tape path is working great now. Frequency is spot on and holds. The problem is the amplitude is jumping around on both channels using any frequency test tone and my oscilloscope. I have not begun any calibrations yet and maybe its just a dirty pot but wondered if you had any idea's? Maybe in the amplification circuit. Both channels jump exactly the same.
When I came back to TH-cam around 2017 I was shocked to discover the enormous amount of interest and buzz around cassette decks. I tried to warn them but they wouldn't listen. Those who do not study history are DOOMED to repeat it! 😂 (I use an iPod.)
Thank you for the great info you provide!
25:40 Why not just swap the two spools?
They look to be identical, and the takeup spool is probably more worn than the other
from being under constant tension and use,
so swapping them around might improve things on the takeup side.
@@geirendre die beiden Wickel -Teller sind leider verschieden .
Actually, the idler has less to do with a steady tape speed since the capstan rotation is responsible for that. The take-up reel just needs to spin fast enough to wind the tape without creating slack. I suspect that the W&F issues come from both pinch rollers being worn and the connecting belt between the take-up and supply capstan flywheels that probably hasn't settled in yet, has a slightly wrong size or is of average quality. Since this is a closed-loop dual capstan, there needs to be a constant tension on the tape between both pinch rollers and anything in this system will make the W&F go haywire. New pinch rollers will go a long way, as well as squeaky clean capstans and well-oiled capstan bearings.
The wobbling idler isn't nice, but as long as the take-up torque is within specs and the reel doesn't exceed a speed that will cause the tape to slip through the take-up capstan and pinch roller, this shouldn't be an immediate issue for W&F.
Also, back-tension torque on the supply reel must be constant and not too high.
I would add that other than the capstan loop, the only other possibility that the clicking idler could affect the w & f would be a sticking or tight clutch mechanism in the takeup reel assembly introducing the flutter via the actual tape. Early 2-head Naks had a takeup reel clutch that quickly froze, and that was replaced easily in the field by an adhesive-backed felt ring and a matching no-clutch takeup reel.
I understand what you're saying, but the tension needs to be kept constant. I think a bigger question is what's supposed to slip to maintain tension but letting the capstan determine the speed? I haven't seen him address the slip clutch. I think it's built within the reel.
the pinch rollers require correct pressure against the capstan. Also, if the washer is too tight against pinch roller bushing it creates resistance. Lastly a drop of PLP inside the bushing helps alot. Both capstans should also have a drop of PLP in the shaft they spin in. The study of metallurgy is critical in these mechanically driven machines. A mirror cassette will show any tape path deviation, stress, & resistance.
There should be a max. of +/-5Hz on a 3150 test tape from a reference deck like B215, 3014A, etc.
Hi Tony, I recently repaired a CT-F950 on my channel if you are interested in getting my perspective on these machines. The 1250 may be better, however the bias calibration etc on the 950 is a real pain. Also there are some errors on the 950 service manual which may not have been corrected for the 1250, dunno. I used to be a TO and AV technician and now repair hifi gear in my retirement.
1 I have been warned against using lithium based grease for plastic wheels and I tend to agree, I use silicon based grease such as Dow Corning DC4, but there may be others. Do your own research.
2 If you take apart the sled be careful to not lose the 6 ball bearings above and below the sliding plate.
3 Yours may be ok but I found the spring pulling the idler tyre against the hubs wasn't strong enough and had to shorten mine by a coil or two.
4 Thanks for info about sources for pinch roller repair and tyre source. Everything is o/s for me so that's not a problem. I'm in Oz.
5 Yes, repairing those small motors is hard. I've once accidently bent the brush arm on one but managed to recover it. I saw the governor on the reel motor and wondered how it operated, so it's an extra set of coils, nice to know.
6 I ended up using the take up pinch roller for the supply position as it was in reasonable condition. I bought a new pinch roller for the take-up but it is of a larger diameter as I feel it would only enhance the pinch, plus I couldn't find a source for the original size. I will check out Terry's business if I have trouble again as it's always best to use original sizing even if the original design was lacking.
7 Sound quality is very good, especially playback. Recording is ok but I have one audio track for test recording (called "Chocolate Mousse" an electronic dance number, don't know artist) that gives me problems . It is a burst of cymbals of very high frequency and it gives trouble when recording. Notably many machines are troubled by this burst of HF, except for all Nakamichis I've tried, amazingly. I suspect HXPro but can't be sure yet. The 950 doesn't have HXPro and it exhibits this issue. Anyway, just a thought that you check response thoroughly and try recording really high frqs such as the high tinkles from a drum set. The design for bias in the 950 is a kludge , I hope it's better for the 1250.
Good to know
Thank you for sharing Take Care
What is the correct Pioneer idler tire size. FixYourAudio doesn't list one for the 1250 but has many different sizes.
Can you please tell us what oil you are using for lubricating the motor bushings. The brand, spec etc. Thank you.
If the two big rollers are the same (drive and rewind,) maybe you could swap their positions to improve the remaining shudder. Wobble on rewind doesn't matter as much. Or, maybe you could true the drive shudder on a lathe.
A lot of those belts and rubber guide wheels can be regenerated back to new, put them in some boiling water in a glass jar and put them in a microwave for 15 minutes covering the Jar reforms them and back to shape. Ideally checking the rubber belt after it's put on sometimes they can be flipped around as well for true roundness some course wet and dry 120g can be used gently on a file to get true roundness. I had a lot of these modern belts if they're not exactly the same thickness will throw your wow and Flutter out should say in the schematics or manual for the mechanical parts what the thickness should be and width of belts and length.
Put a spot of grease on the ends of the bushes
Hum, Boiling water Another good Idea, I will have to look for the spec of th belt it appear that what you buy new today, might not work?
@@musicstevecom2 yes belts fickle thing and they need to be manufactured well probably silicone belt would be best bet you need to know the tension of the original rubber these figures must be out there somewhere
Hi Tony, what's your take on this idea: to measure the tape speed if one doesn't have special test tape ie fixed frequency, can one not physically measure a specific length of tape with some marks that correspond to a specified time and use the fact that tape speed should be 4.75cm per sec. So 1425 cm equates to 5 min play back. Would this not be accurate to adjust tape speed without special test tapes? It would need an old cassette to be opened and the tape measured and marked with a tape measure, and accurately timed with stop watch. Your thoughts? Love your channel. Thks.
21:36 For testing the head without rotating parts,
is to use a MP3 to cassette adapter, those where used back in the old days, to connect a MP3 player/Discman to a car radio that only got a cassette deck and no aux input.
Like this : postimg.cc/zbM5SMVc
Great Idea!
I’ll be right over with the bull dozer d-9 Cat to take care of that tape deck for you.
Can you swap the forward and reverse wheels?
I think it's a good idea. Tony has to disassemble both and replace only the upper part. The rewind has a belt pulley on the bottom. Also, the clutch has to be checked.
Did you realign the head azimuth? The symptoms sound like head alignment issues.
I think alot of your wow and flutter is due to the old, hard pinch rollers. Good work so far.
I have fitted idler tire from pioneer ct-f9191, very good much
Old Analogue Tape decks seem to last longer than the Digital Compact Cassette which I had but it seems like the unit needs recapping as it will no longer play either analogue or Digital Compact Cassette, I think that Philips should have gone with a rotary cecord head i.e. RDAT rather than a fixed 9 track tape head.
Were you able to get the rebuilt pinch rollers from Terry ? He's fighting some serious Covid19 health problems.
As a last resort I use MG Chem. rubber renew with cuetip. Equal strokes on entire roller - restores pinch roller with minimal diameter reduction.
Still waiting to hear from him. I hope Terry gets well soon and I wish him all the best!
@@xraytonyb I tested mine at +11.76 FF / -11.76 FR. My motor needs service cause it hesitates in FF direction. What do you think about usin JB on the cap cover ridge instead of peening it ? I'm afraid peening it will throw off the harmonic balance. Pioneer probably used a press plate.
Tony do you know who can repair teac sx2300 tape decks
hello, I see that you restored it, I have one and although it plays well, I have not been able to make it record correctly, they have told me that it is not the recording head, I also have a problem with the integrated pulse counter of the capstan motor, the chip it has is the PD1003, I wanted to ask you, and if you know IF IT HAS ANY REPLACEMENT THAT CAN REPLACE IT, because that chip was encapsulated by pioneer and I can't get its datasheet anywhere, I know it's a pulse counter but I don't know but nothing. I appreciate if you can give me some information.
As of August 19-2021 - Terry's website states: (Hope Terry Pulls Through !!!)
Attention
I am currently fighting Pneumonia and Covid 19
Please refrain from sending any items until further notice.
Any packages that have been received will be processed at a later time, and will not be descarded.
Thank you for your patience
Terry Witt
June 11, 2021
Listen to the rhythm of the ticking noise
Telling me just how worn it is
I wish that it was that it was fixed and that it worked again
To listen to my songs again
:D
HOW MUCH YOU CHARGE FOR BELTS REPLACEMENTS ?
Love looking back on these electromechanical marvels but glad digital technology has taken its place and provides much more convenience and better sound quality.
If a guy can find a high end 90's vintage Sony 3 head deck, they're about a million times easier to service and sound just as good as these old Pioneer decks.
This is not all about sound. These Pioneer decks just look AWESOME!!! They're huge, massive, cool and... *drools all over the place*
If it looks Better, it sounds better and the wow factor kicks in!
Most Brain Surgeons would shy away from this.......
Moving/plastic parts, reasons why cassettes will not return like the LP players. I hate workin' on 'em too.
If you get bored I have an old BetaMax on the shelf.. :)
You can buy the "electronic cleaner" in Europe branded as "Kontakt WL", which is made by CRC aswell.
The stuff can clean seized up mechanical parts aswell, though you make want to heat the particular part with a hair dryer at first and as your moving the part back and forth you spray it with the cleaner and it soaks in by it self. In the end you wanna lubricate the part.
Try an o-ring to replace the idler tyre. I know that it is not ok, but...
Ha! Repaired a classic Panasonic boom box with reverse playback and this is exactly what I did with one of the idler tire- rubber O-ring. Had to shave it with with knife and sandpaper, to get it a bit smaller diameter and better match for the OEM square profile. Worked great!
So many quetions from your viewers sir and you didn't got in a bother to reply from respect
23:40 " Let go of the microphone! " Thank you Grandpa's Engineer for the bellylaugh!
i have 2-- pioneer 580 decks just like that one in the outher room half apart ready for me to throw in trash with a lot of good parts in them just to much for me to fix as you are finding out -i hate to throw all this in trash when people are going crazy trying to find paets i will throw in trash -a lot of sony stuff to all free if some one wants items wc
repairing these are a lot of work and you need a system to keep track of all the little parts and a system to make sure where they go when putting it back together (pics and videos) and how to prevent little parts from flying off when taking them apart, like you I looked at the belt I need to replace and stopped working and thinking how can I get to that belt and thing I don't have time to do this and a system and room to do it.
i have 8 of those moters like NEW
Visto che il lavoro non è finito,spero che fai la parte 3
Ci vorrà un po' di tempo fino a quando non arriverà il ricambio ma ci sarà un video parte 3.
@@cjay2 grazie dell'informazione,questo Pioneer e' un modello che mi sta molto a cuore,ci tengo molto.ciao
I can hardly hear above 10 khz in either ear. Send it to me. :-) Can you 3D print tires? People are doing it with O-Rings. I never hear the background noises TH-camrs apologize for. If you decide you want more tape decks, I have three non-functional Sony DAT mini-decks, none of which work at all. Compared with cassettes, these are horrors.
Call it part 1.414
My restoration technician said this series PIONEER cassette deck are the worst things ever made.I brought one in to have the belts and rollers installed. I had them already to go. They said nope not worth repairing save your money.
Hi I have a CT F-1250
and an RT 909 and several that need replacement of wear parts, I would like to ask you if you are able to repair them if I send them to you. and can you reply to my email so we can communicate
Regards, Lars.
Check out the note at the beginning of all my videos.
The Caveman
CTF 1250-certified junk
"Entirely too touchy to clean on camera". What nonsense is that?
What is the purpose of your channel to educate or cop out?
Tony said it was too touchy to clean on camera due to his camera arrangement. He would have to reach over and around the camera to fiddle with it. I understand your frustration though. Refurbishing one of these motors is something we all would love to see in its entirety. I too have a 1250 that needs this done as the playback drops out due to a dead spot on the armature. I have read the thread on how to do this on AudioKarma, but a video would be even better yes.
This job really needs its own video and perhaps it can be done if the camera was placed differently in order to get unfettered access to it.
Jesus Buy a new player that simple
Having fun! Enjoyed watching.