Not that it's important, but I just had a major surgery. In a lot of pain the prescriptions are not helping. I put in my headsets and laid back listening to you. Your voice helped me relax. I was able to fall asleep. Which means, since I found it all interesting, I'll have to listen again when I feel better. So, thanks for the history, and the desperate need for rest. Your voice is very soothing.
I'm going through chemo at the moment and use these videos when I can't sleep, am in pain or just need a good distraction. I love her style and am so happy I found her videos
Your substitute words ("fudge" and especially "cucumber") have made me giggle like a twelve year old boy! I am glad that you've done this video. To suffocate such poetry, however lewd and naughty, is to stifle a facet of humanity which cannot and should not be ignored. I also did not know about the story of this nobleman and I found it fascinating.
@@tricivenola8164 I see an intense contempt for women, who are nothing more than tools to facilitate his own pleasure. He certainly doesn't respect women. It's pure misogyny wrapped in the superficial charm of youth and privilege.
How did I miss this? I found the poetry fascinating, not for its lewdness, but for the sharp eye and The perspective of life around the Poet. Thank you again, Dr. Kat!!!!
You do a very nice job of turning what is essentially a lecture into a very interesting delivery. While the Earl may have been praised for his wit and deemed "fun-to-be-with" for his mischievousness, it seems he was also quite mean-spirited. The poem "A Ramble in St. James' Park" is not just a description of the lewd use of the park, but also a diatribe against a certain Corinna who refused the Earl's advances. And the "Satyre on Charles II" is even more vicious. I think people like this Earl are rather sad. I work at an alternative school which serves a lot of troubled teens. Many are charming ne'er-do-wells, and while we love them, we usually watch their lives spin into tragedies.
Thanks Dr Kat for yet another insightful and interesting video. The Puritan's moralistic policies, when they ruled between 1649 - 1660, were deplorable, then after 1660 much of the English Court goes to the opposite extreme - and Rochester is the most blatant example of all. While he had a way with words, he was an upper class thug of the worst type who had no regard for the people he hurt. I'm glad his poetry has survived as there is something refreshing in his honesty, but I can't have much pity for him in his latter years which must have been so miserable. And his ingratitude to Charles ll takes my breath away! It would be interesting to know if Rochester actually had any real friends: I doubt it. As for Aphra Behn, I wonder how well she knew Rochester!
There certainly was a sort of pendulum swing in morality during this period, wasn't there? It can be pretty difficult to know how people in the same social circle feel about each other deep down (I think that's as true now as it was then, to be honest). Nevertheless, we could argue that Rochester must have had (at least some) powerful friends. I think they would be necessary for him to get away with what he does, and to preserve his poetry so that we can still access it. If he was resoundingly hated, he would likely have been exiled from court and expunged from history after his death.
I knew that the word "cucumber" had been around for quite some centuries, but I didn't know that "fudge" went that far back (and presumably further). Thanks for the education.
Every once in a while an artist appears with the same urge as John Wilmot, a need to lay everything out. I'm wary of persons like that, can't be entirely relaxed with or close to them, but yet I'm absolutely appreciative of their vision, their output, even their arrogance. It seems to me they're wayward animals, outside the fold, because of the raw honesty they possess. Emeralds with inclusions, yes.
That's an interesting point. The impression that I have gained from the research that I did for an article that I wrote some years ago is that she loved him, in the way that put upon women can love very unfaithful husbands. Look at Jane Clark, widow of Alan Clark. He had multiple affairs, at one time with a married woman and her two daughters. He called them the Coven. Yet she said that he was the love of her life, and his death devastated her. She said she knew that, despite his philandering, that he loved her. Perhaps Lady Rochester felt the same way. Very sadly, she died about a year after him.
@@JackMagiclydelicious I was thinking that also. but maybe he spent soo much time w/o ppl (female AND probably male) that he didnt have, time... for her... (which would have been fortunate for her frankly). The fickleness of the time....your NoT GOOD ENOUGH...oohh weelll now...ok, NEVERMIND how you mishandled our daughter .......HERE YA GO! NOT MY DAUGHTER.... I would have fought it w/ everything in me to prevent my daughter from being married to a "man" like that!! And then the DISGRACE... he brought upon the family, his poor Wife... I feel SSSOOOOO SORRY for his poor wife!!!!
Same for me. Johnny Depp’s skill as an actor led me to acquire as much knowledge about Wilmot as I can. And knowing more about Wilmot led me back to Depp and gave me even more respect for him for his sensitive portrayal of this complex rake and poet. And I only just now happened upon this site and I immediately subscribed. I look forward to seeing/listening to your work.
I, too, found Johnny Depp's portrayal stunning. I had no idea he was a serious actor. And, naturally, the subject he portrays is of great historical interest.
He strikes me as being a perpetual teenager. Angry at the world and determined to show it and himself no respect. Pity. He was intelligent and charismatic. He could have done great things.
@alison webster At this time we don't have far to look to see the leaders of countries behaving BADLY. Benjamin Franklin said that if our nation didn't watch it we would get the President we deserved. MERCY! The world needs all of our prayers.
I love the idea that artists "doing it for the shock value" is nothing new at all. (Don't love Wilmot's blatant misogyny in that first poem, though.) Thank you for going over those with us, Dr. Kat!
Hahaha, the act of fleeing court after realizing what he’d done is the historical equivalent of throwing your phone after sending a risky text or realizing you’ve sent a text to the wrong person. 😂
I’m going to have a hissy fit if TH-cam has a problem with truth- no matter how horrid, graceful, lewd and fantastical. Thank you for being a part of my life… you are a wonderful orator, I love your accent and approach to all subjects!! Bonjour from SW Louisiana, USA. ❤
Love ur chanell dear. Please do more of john wilmot. U read his poem so good. I would love for u to read all of his works. What a man. I write poetry too. Had a live full of the same issues. Truly. My name is john wajda. I was born on april 1st. And writen poetry since 14. Alot more. But i love every episode. Keep up the wonderful word.k. huzzah🙏💙💜💙
I recently watch The Libertine, and found you as I was searching to know more about John Wilmot. Thank you for presenting this poetry and the background. I found it very interesting, something definitely lacking in my college education!
I just found and subscribed to your interesting channel. I've watched almost all of them already! I'm also a fan of the Showtime show The Tudors. Particularly partial to the actor David O'Hara excellently playing The Earl of Surrey. Maybe one day I'll find you talking about him in one of your videos! Thank you for keeping history alive. I enjoy your voice too.
Oh for the times of the Restoration. Rochester and his potty mouth! There HAD to be a Rochester in that time, sometimes I think it “saves” history that we have folk like him who pop up. Saving it from the ordinary and routine of political machinations.
The shock factor is what Rochester wanted people to get. It was a way for him to express what was truly happening in the upper chasses and monarchy. The lower classes suffered, while the royals, etc. did whatever they cared to do.
I would love to watch video of Nelly Gwinn. From Orange girl at the theatre to long term beloved of Charles II who mentioned her on his death bed to James. Would love any info about her.
Nell Gwinn bore Charles, 2 sons, he eventually made one a Duke and other an Earl, I think. She was full of fun and sang, danced and told bawdy jokes for king and his friends.
@@georginaellison6280 The King was reluctant to give titles to their sons because of her station in life but got tired of her calling the boys little bastards, so he gave them tittles that are still in use today. She never asked for any titles for herself. Like Rochester, the King died of complications from syphilize which he also passed on to Nell and she died 2 years after the King.
I remember reading a book about Nell Gwynn and King Charles II when I was very young. It was definitely not intended for someone my age (10 or 11!) but I, of course, found it fascinating. Wish I could remember the title. It was published c.1949, I think, and replete with the careful innuendo of the time. The story, perhaps apocryphal, that I loved most about Gwynn was of how she tricked Charles into giving her land for a veterans hospital. After much pleading he agreed to give her as much land as she could cover with his pocket handkerchief. The resourceful Nell presented him with a map of London overlaid by the handkerchief thereby covering acres of land. Charles, delighted with her cleverness, gave her the property. I believe that the hospital was still standing when I read about it in 1960.
This is history, surely youtube has the ability to have a simple warning. Thanks for doing it anyway. Im going through all the videos I have missed since finding you recently!
As you were talking about trying not to have your channel deleted by youtube because of John Wilmot's poetry, I spotted a book by/about the Marquis de Sade behind the stuffed dino teddy - now THAT would really send youtube over the edge!
MARVELOUS video!! This journey that you take us on to discover history is vastly informative, well thought out and perfectly delivered!! In this particular instance, I wish I could know more about his other accomplishments! lol
I knew he died young but I was surprised it was at 33. I didn't know the damage that could be done by drinking and venereal disease, and how quickly it would catch up with him, though I did have a friend who died at that age from complications from alcoholism. I suppose there's the cliche of the 'old debauchee' who continues his raking into his 50s and 60s. He seems like an interesting, but also vengeful and spiteful person.
What a poet. What a poem. Makes me so proud to have spent most of my childhood in Rochester. He's so full of hatred for women. His assumption that any woman would be so grateful for his attention is so repulsive and grown in the nastiest fertilizer of a class obsessed society
John Wimont was a spoiled brat who dismissed his responsibilities in order to live a life that met his needs no matter whose other lives he ruined and one indeed killed. He is a debased boy that never grew up and only wanted to play with his toys on his terms. He was a pitiful piece of slime in every way. His poetry is bizarre and basically says f the world. He is saying I can do and say and write down whatever the h.. I like. Very interesting story.
"Claiming" authenticity? The man literally died of his excesses: no sniveling, no sudden conversion, no self-pity. He was most certainly authentic. The pungent language just alerts us to that, perfectly appropriate to the circumstances. Thank you for mentioning Johnny Depp's performance in The Libertine. He conveyed the nastiness and pathos of Rochester, as well as his aesthetics and vulnerability, which made him so infuriating. Rochester reminds me of Neal Cassady, who inspired the Beat writers around him simply by living his life.
I think that the Earl of Rochester sailed pretty close to the wind and loved the chaos he created. Quite the character and quite the libertine, and like most people, not all bad and certainly not all good!!! I think the fact that he was played by the beautiful Johnny Depp in the film of his life and times has helped to rehabilitate him somewhat lol. I personally loved the film and found it riotous and hilarious in parts and sad and pathetic in others. Although I need to remember that I shouldn't judge people from the past through a modern lens. Imho people are people are people but what appears wrong to us now would not have appeared quite so unacceptable during the time in question. It's tempting to put one's own moral stance / sensibilities on certain actions but imho doesn't really help unveil the past with any clarity. Stay safe Dr Kat xx
I have been doing research on my family, the Wilmot’s and found that 2nd Earl of Rochester is in my line. Although our direct line is a John Wilmot, a high borne Engineer from Somerset to America in the late 1600. Our family history is rich and interesting and now filled with “color” in language and lifestyle😀. Thanks you for your explaining English history.
Julie Blackstock Johnny Depp has always brought "out there" type characters to life. His role in "The Libertine" was as outstanding as was Jack Sparrow, Edward Scissorhands, Tonto,etc,etc,etc,
Wow to actually write the second poem to the KING is actually appalling to someone who took care of him Amazing he actually had his head on after , If it had been Henry the eight or even Elizabeth? I think being Charles the second and his father having being executed! This may have saved his life
I think one other thing that strikes me about Wilmont's writings is the fact that language such as this existed at all in the 17th century. In the modern era we really don't think people could have talked like that.
Interesting, I’ve not heard much about the Earl of Rochester, I noticed a couple of well read Marquis de Sade on the shelf have you done a video of him?
@@Mrjacharles Excuse me but why are you assuming he's wealthy? Most of them weren't. True a thousand pounds/year was money back then but he had a wife, a house, servants and four kids to take care of as well as such monies he kept for himself to spend in riotous living in London which doesn't come cheap. If one enjoyed hanging out with drunken men who never met a woman they didn't like, one might enjoy their company. but stop focusing upon the outward show and think about what his works are telling us - that beneath the fine clothes lies festering rot - and he wasn't afraid to say so blatantly and from direct experience - no hypocrite he, unlike many during that licentious age. He was willing to pay the price.
the earl of rochester had an understanding of the expressive power of poetry, but his choice of subjects diluted it's effect. dryden and others in his day had a more astute talent for choosing their subjects.
The debauchery of the restoration was the result of the puritanical life forced on the English people by Oliver Cromwell. So, when Charles came on the throne, everyone went a little crazy. I also think that Rochester was remembered as a libertine because of his poetry, whereas the Duke of Buckingham was worse!
I just found your channel looking for the movie. I am so glad I found you! I love history and now I have you! I'm having such a good day today!! New sub!!
You are wise to redact because TH-cam has become unpredictable in it's enforcement of the rules. I love Samuel Pepys. He is such a gossip, lmao! 😂 Rochester was an all around badass! As you said, he was a model libertine for historical novels. Georgette Heyer comes to my mind. His poems have been rightly banned because they are pornographic, but there is a place somewhere for them. Wow, what a vulgar piece to write about the king! The man had a lot of nerve! He lived a debauched life and died by it. Oh well, at least he had no regrets.
True, it was spitefully written of the King; however when it came to women Charles was the biggest fool and like a kid in a sweet shop. One was never enough. He loved them all extremely well until the day that he didn't. He could never just put a woman away though, they were usually well rewarded even if he had to go against ministerial advice to give them titles, money etc. Sad that he found genuine happiness in the company of a woman like Nell so late in his life. That he did love her seems to be in no doubt to me or that she loved him and not just because he was King. I would say in spite of actually. Love the Restoration period and really enjoying all the videos. The Tudors too, love them. Thank you Kat.
Growing up in the 60s and 70s, shock poetry and other graphic works were supposedly signs of freedom and liberation from societal norms. In my youth, I loved reading such works for their shock value. It made me feel edgy. As I get older, I find it lacking in substance and reliance upon shock only. As an exposé of the court of Charles II, I think Wilmont’s work does somewhat the same thing. Exposing the coarse underbelly of society, rather than what society would like one to think. Thank you so much for doing this video. It just goes to show that the more things change, the more they stay the same!
He died at 33? Well, he lived long enough to learn to write poetry, but in my opinion he didn't live long enough to become a Man. Just because your reproductive organs are functioning doesn't make it so.
What a troubled soul! His sin was that he verbalized what others silently tolerated. The raucous words merely a window to how he saw others effective on his life and found through mockery a way to explain his mimicry of others more empowered but less moral and accountability than himself.
Weirdly struck by the first, in that he seems to be mad at her, not for sleeping around, but for sleeping with _and caring about_ people he doesn't like. I'm not sure how honest that presentation is, because the tone feels hyperbolic. But it's interesting to imagine the vitriol as a result of someone who thought himself very cynical and worldly (I sleep around, she sleeps around, human nature, par for the course) finding himself wounded at a loss of emotional intimacy and lashing out because he doesn't want to admit to experiencing sentimental attachment.
Rochester was pretty good with the stylus. His work isn't bad at all, for what it is. But you now! You're work here is impressive, both in content and presentation in these 'c___'. ('Casts' , as in 'pod-casts', sorry I couldn't resist, a failing I have in common with Wilde.) ;) It would be hard not to admire your consummate historical artistry! Bravissimo!
It isn’t hypocritical to warn people not to embark on the same process through which you destroyed yourself and others. I don’t believe that was his being self aware. I think he was desperately trying to protect himself from the realization that he had wasted and destroyed his own life, made a mockery of his talents, and from the sound of things, made misery for everyone he ever had any significant relationship with. Often on purpose. I think the accusation of cowardice wasn’t that far off.
The sharing of his mistress with the king obviously gave Rochester an inflated sense of his own taste and it sounds from his poetry that he was not just decrying the Kings policies but also expressing sour grapes at the continued appropriation of Nelly by Charles II and even of her continued presence by the Kings side... and her seeming satisfaction at whatever efforts it required...
Aha! When you said he was a poet, I wondered if he wrote That Poem :D about Charles II! I dunno where I found it, & it was ages ago so I'd forgotten the author, but I thought it was hilarious! Pretty insulting, but the stuff like the comment about his sceptre was sort of a stupid-young man compliment. I have to say it helps to know some of the archaic naughty words like swive & spend- I thought you might "translate", but then maybe it's totally obvious? :D Great vid!
Thanks for uploading, I enjoyed it very much. Do you know Graham Greenes account of his life and works? He says Rochesters works in the Brittish Museum was catalogued under "a green letter phi", which was I believe the victorian cathegory for pornography. I think Rochester was deliberately pornographic to ensue a critical view of his time, and in this was following a tradition in which crude sex is used to attack the morals of the age, as did Catullus in classic Rome and did Ginsberg in modern New York.
Hi Erick! Thank you so much for commenting - I haven't read Graham Greene on Rochester, but I will be sure to check that out - great tip, thank you again! I think you are definitely onto something with the use of shock tactics to decry the morals of the age as well. While Rochester seems willing to own (even partially celebrate) his own lax morality; he certainly doesn't make the behaviours seem attractive or without deep personal cost. This is one of the factors that makes his poetry so fascinating to me!
I'm a little late to the ball, as I have only just discovered this channel quite recently and am enjoying it quite a lot. I really respect your research and academic approach, Dr. Kat, but also how you make the information so accessible. It's easy to make history as dry as an old bone, and you manage to avoid that. I guess the questions I have are first, is it possible that Wilmot's relatively rare circumstances (i.e. being a favourite of the King, having status and a certain notoriety) brought forward any latent narcissism he may have suffered? I understand perfectly the pitfalls of posthumously diagnosing historical persons with modern pathologies, but can all of his impulsive behaviours be blamed on syphilis? The second question I have is about the language you carefully avoided in the verses presented. I can certainly see why the Victorians got the vapours and buried Wilmot's poetry as deeply as they could, but in Wilmot's time, I'm not sure those words carried the same horror as in subsequent centuries.
He seems to be a person who lacks something core. How can one write something dripping with such disdain for someone who supported you (through some pretty serious things) and gave you everything, including basically adopting you as a foster son (when under no obligation to do so)? So the very King himself was loyal and loving to him, but he hated him in return? Perhaps there were things that contributed to it, losing his father at 10 years of age, alcoholism, other illnesses we might not be aware of... But one can't help but think that a person who is aware enough to run when his poem showing such distaste for the king gets out ought to at least be thankful (if not able to dredge up any deeper feeling) to the man who provided him with as much opportunity and freedom as he had.
Hi Dr. Kat. Love the info! If he had died of tertiary syphilis, how did so many others (cucumbers) not get it?? It seems that during the last bit of his life, he suffered greatly, but his wife was steadfast in helping in any way she could.
Even by today's standards it's very "blue" language. I know the "pit" is the pit before the stage; latterly known to most as an orchestra pit. In Charles II's time no doubt it was a rowdy place where a lot of colourful things went on.
I looked this video up after watching the Libertine last night. I hoped you would have one, and I was right! In the movie it starts by saying he's a terrible person and we won't like hom, but I find him endearing compared to most of the arseholes back then. At least he knew he was nasty and owned up to it instead of pretending to be a gentleman.
Years ago I watched a film on him. I remember it was Johnny Depp who portrayed him. I also had a biography of him and I don't remember the name of the author.
It's odd how talking about it publicly seems to be considered more shocking than actually doing it privately, then and now, don't you think? Really pleased you enjoyed the video!
Not that it's important, but I just had a major surgery. In a lot of pain the prescriptions are not helping. I put in my headsets and laid back listening to you. Your voice helped me relax. I was able to fall asleep. Which means, since I found it all interesting, I'll have to listen again when I feel better. So, thanks for the history, and the desperate need for rest. Your voice is very soothing.
Ten months after you post and I hope that you are feeling a lot better now Rhiahl. Blessings.
@@OdeInWessex Doing well. Going back for the second surgery in late Feb. But know what to expect.
@@rhiahlMT all the best with your upcoming surgery,💗
I'm going through chemo at the moment and use these videos when I can't sleep, am in pain or just need a good distraction. I love her style and am so happy I found her videos
@@Nickyknits Yeah, she is a great person, not only for her insight, she should be doing voice over work if she's interested.
Your substitute words ("fudge" and especially "cucumber") have made me giggle like a twelve year old boy! I am glad that you've done this video. To suffocate such poetry, however lewd and naughty, is to stifle a facet of humanity which cannot and should not be ignored. I also did not know about the story of this nobleman and I found it fascinating.
"In all its sweary glory" is one of the most delightful phrases ever.
I thought Johnny Depps portrayal of the Earl of Rochester was perhaps his best work. Thank you for illuminating more of this character
What struck me most about the first poem wasn't so much the lewdness, but the viciousness of the mysogeny.
Yes, me too.
I don't see misogyny. I see helplessness in the teeth of uncontrollable desire, rage at the power the female principle has over him.
@@tricivenola8164 I see an intense contempt for women, who are nothing more than tools to facilitate his own pleasure. He certainly doesn't respect women. It's pure misogyny wrapped in the superficial charm of youth and privilege.
@@tricivenola8164 Eh?
@@tricivenola8164 you just described the core of misogyny. That is what drives it.
This channel should have way more subscribers than it does.
How did I miss this? I found the poetry fascinating, not for its lewdness, but for the sharp eye and The perspective of life around the Poet. Thank you again, Dr. Kat!!!!
You do a very nice job of turning what is essentially a lecture into a very interesting delivery. While the Earl may have been praised for his wit and deemed "fun-to-be-with" for his mischievousness, it seems he was also quite mean-spirited. The poem "A Ramble in St. James' Park" is not just a description of the lewd use of the park, but also a diatribe against a certain Corinna who refused the Earl's advances. And the "Satyre on Charles II" is even more vicious.
I think people like this Earl are rather sad. I work at an alternative school which serves a lot of troubled teens. Many are charming ne'er-do-wells, and while we love them, we usually watch their lives spin into tragedies.
Thanks Dr Kat for yet another insightful and interesting video. The Puritan's moralistic policies, when they ruled between 1649 - 1660, were deplorable, then after 1660 much of the English Court goes to the opposite extreme - and Rochester is the most blatant example of all. While he had a way with words, he was an upper class thug of the worst type who had no regard for the people he hurt. I'm glad his poetry has survived as there is something refreshing in his honesty, but I can't have much pity for him in his latter years which must have been so miserable. And his ingratitude to Charles ll takes my breath away! It would be interesting to know if Rochester actually had any real friends: I doubt it. As for Aphra Behn, I wonder how well she knew Rochester!
There certainly was a sort of pendulum swing in morality during this period, wasn't there?
It can be pretty difficult to know how people in the same social circle feel about each other deep down (I think that's as true now as it was then, to be honest). Nevertheless, we could argue that Rochester must have had (at least some) powerful friends. I think they would be necessary for him to get away with what he does, and to preserve his poetry so that we can still access it. If he was resoundingly hated, he would likely have been exiled from court and expunged from history after his death.
I think he may have had bi-polar disorder.
We tend to hate those we are totally dependent on.
I knew that the word "cucumber" had been around for quite some centuries, but I didn't know that "fudge" went that far back (and presumably further). Thanks for the education.
Same
see also: quaint.
And "frigg," which I assumed was born in the 21st century.
Every once in a while an artist appears with the same urge as John Wilmot, a need to lay everything out. I'm wary of persons like that, can't be entirely relaxed with or close to them, but yet I'm absolutely appreciative of their vision, their output, even their arrogance. It seems to me they're wayward animals, outside the fold, because of the raw honesty they possess. Emeralds with inclusions, yes.
How did his wife, Elizabeth feel about her husband? Did she want to marry the man who had kidnapped her? Or was she forced into it?
That's an interesting point. The impression that I have gained from the research that I did for an article that I wrote some years ago is that she loved him, in the way that put upon women can love very unfaithful husbands. Look at Jane Clark, widow of Alan Clark. He had multiple affairs, at one time with a married woman and her two daughters. He called them the Coven. Yet she said that he was the love of her life, and his death devastated her. She said she knew that, despite his philandering, that he loved her. Perhaps Lady Rochester felt the same way. Very sadly, she died about a year after him.
What about the VD, did she not contract it also?
@@JackMagiclydelicious I was thinking that also. but maybe he spent soo much time w/o ppl (female AND probably male) that he didnt have, time... for her... (which would have been fortunate for her frankly). The fickleness of the time....your NoT GOOD ENOUGH...oohh weelll now...ok, NEVERMIND how you mishandled our daughter
.......HERE YA GO! NOT MY DAUGHTER.... I would have fought it w/ everything in me to prevent my daughter from being married to a "man" like that!! And then the DISGRACE... he brought upon the family, his poor Wife... I feel SSSOOOOO SORRY for his poor wife!!!!
Johnny Depp's portrayal in "The Libertine" is amazing. I'm glad to know more about the real John Wilmont.
Same for me. Johnny Depp’s skill as an actor led me to acquire as much knowledge about Wilmot as I can. And knowing more about Wilmot led me back to Depp and gave me even more respect for him for his sensitive portrayal of this complex rake and poet. And I only just now happened upon this site and I immediately subscribed. I look forward to seeing/listening to your work.
I, too, found Johnny Depp's portrayal stunning. I had no idea he was a serious actor. And, naturally, the subject he portrays is of great historical interest.
He strikes me as being a perpetual teenager. Angry at the world and determined to show it and himself no respect. Pity. He was intelligent and charismatic. He could have done great things.
@alison webster At this time we don't have far to look to see the leaders of countries behaving BADLY. Benjamin Franklin said that if our nation didn't watch it we would get the President we deserved. MERCY! The world needs all of our prayers.
I love the idea that artists "doing it for the shock value" is nothing new at all. (Don't love Wilmot's blatant misogyny in that first poem, though.) Thank you for going over those with us, Dr. Kat!
Hahaha, the act of fleeing court after realizing what he’d done is the historical equivalent of throwing your phone after sending a risky text or realizing you’ve sent a text to the wrong person. 😂
I’m going to have a hissy fit if TH-cam has a problem with truth- no matter how horrid, graceful, lewd and fantastical. Thank you for being a part of my life… you are a wonderful orator, I love your accent and approach to all subjects!! Bonjour from SW Louisiana, USA. ❤
Love ur chanell dear. Please do more of john wilmot. U read his poem so good. I would love for u to read all of his works. What a man. I write poetry too. Had a live full of the same issues. Truly. My name is john wajda. I was born on april 1st. And writen poetry since 14. Alot more. But i love every episode. Keep up the wonderful word.k. huzzah🙏💙💜💙
I recently watch The Libertine, and found you as I was searching to know more about John Wilmot. Thank you for presenting this poetry and the background. I found it very interesting, something definitely lacking in my college education!
I just found and subscribed to your interesting channel. I've watched almost all of them already! I'm also a fan of the Showtime show The Tudors. Particularly partial to the actor David O'Hara excellently playing The Earl of Surrey. Maybe one day I'll find you talking about him in one of your videos!
Thank you for keeping history alive. I enjoy your voice too.
I can't get enough of your videos! I've been going through watching old ones until you can post a new one! 😀Thank you!!
The poetry reveals the author’s hatred of women.
His poetry reveals an indifference to humanity, and I wonder how much of his indifference was genuine?
Brilliant Kat..Thank you so much. He reminds me of all the great rockstars, particularly Jim Morrison.
Oh for the times of the Restoration. Rochester and his potty mouth! There HAD to be a Rochester in that time, sometimes I think it “saves” history that we have folk like him who pop up. Saving it from the ordinary and routine of political machinations.
The shock factor is what Rochester wanted people to get. It was a way for him to express what was truly happening in the upper chasses and monarchy. The lower classes suffered, while the royals, etc. did whatever they cared to do.
I would love to watch video of Nelly Gwinn. From Orange girl at the theatre to long term beloved of Charles II who mentioned her on his death bed to James. Would love any info about her.
nice pick
Nell Gwinn bore Charles, 2 sons, he eventually made one a Duke and other an Earl, I think. She was full of fun and sang, danced and told bawdy jokes for king and his friends.
@@georginaellison6280 The King was reluctant to give titles to their sons because of her station in life but got tired of her calling the boys little bastards, so he gave them tittles that are still in use today. She never asked for any titles for herself. Like Rochester, the King died of complications from syphilize which he also passed on to Nell and she died 2 years after the King.
I remember reading a book about Nell Gwynn and King Charles II when I was very young. It was definitely not intended for someone my age (10 or 11!) but I, of course, found it fascinating. Wish I could remember the title. It was published c.1949, I think, and replete with the careful innuendo of the time. The story, perhaps apocryphal, that I loved most about Gwynn was of how she tricked Charles into giving her land for a veterans hospital. After much pleading he agreed to give her as much land as she could cover with his pocket handkerchief. The resourceful Nell presented him with a map of London overlaid by the handkerchief thereby covering acres of land. Charles, delighted with her cleverness, gave her the property. I believe that the hospital was still standing when I read about it in 1960.
I'm buckled up! Go Dr Kat!!
This is history, surely youtube has the ability to have a simple warning. Thanks for doing it anyway. Im going through all the videos I have missed since finding you recently!
As you were talking about trying not to have your channel deleted by youtube because of John Wilmot's poetry, I spotted a book by/about the Marquis de Sade behind the stuffed dino teddy - now THAT would really send youtube over the edge!
MARVELOUS video!! This journey that you take us on to discover history is vastly informative, well thought out and perfectly delivered!! In this particular instance, I wish I could know more about his other accomplishments! lol
I knew he died young but I was surprised it was at 33. I didn't know the damage that could be done by drinking and venereal disease, and how quickly it would catch up with him, though I did have a friend who died at that age from complications from alcoholism. I suppose there's the cliche of the 'old debauchee' who continues his raking into his 50s and 60s. He seems like an interesting, but also vengeful and spiteful person.
What a poet. What a poem. Makes me so proud to have spent most of my childhood in Rochester. He's so full of hatred for women. His assumption that any woman would be so grateful for his attention is so repulsive and grown in the nastiest fertilizer of a class obsessed society
Ohh Johnny would be so thrilled to offend TH-cam. And hundreds of years later to boot. The Goddess bless all satyrs. ;)
John Wimont was a spoiled brat who dismissed his responsibilities in order to live a life that met his needs no matter whose other lives he ruined and one indeed killed. He is a debased boy that never grew up and only wanted to play with his toys on his terms. He was a pitiful piece of slime in every way. His poetry is bizarre and basically says f the world. He is saying I can do and say and write down whatever the h.. I like.
Very interesting story.
"Claiming" authenticity? The man literally died of his excesses: no sniveling, no sudden conversion, no self-pity. He was most certainly authentic. The pungent language just alerts us to that, perfectly appropriate to the circumstances. Thank you for mentioning Johnny Depp's performance in The Libertine. He conveyed the nastiness and pathos of Rochester, as well as his aesthetics and vulnerability, which made him so infuriating. Rochester reminds me of Neal Cassady, who inspired the Beat writers around him simply by living his life.
Thank you. This is my first exposure to John Wilmot's poetry, other than just descriptors. This adds real depth to my understanding of him.
I have learned so much from your many TH-cam videos.
Your authoriatative English accent is entertaining and enlightening.
Clear, precise but without sounding snotty. Perfect.
Wonderful....great job
I love the you explained things about paintings and earl of Rochester !
I think that the Earl of Rochester sailed pretty close to the wind and loved the chaos he created. Quite the character and quite the libertine, and like most people, not all bad and certainly not all good!!!
I think the fact that he was played by the beautiful Johnny Depp in the film of his life and times has helped to rehabilitate him somewhat lol.
I personally loved the film and found it riotous and hilarious in parts and sad and pathetic in others. Although I need to remember that I shouldn't judge people from the past through a modern lens. Imho people are people are people but what appears wrong to us now would not have appeared quite so unacceptable during the time in question. It's tempting to put one's own moral stance / sensibilities on certain actions but imho doesn't really help unveil the past with any clarity. Stay safe Dr Kat xx
I must remember the phrase "in all its sweary glory". It's wonderful :)
I have been doing research on my family, the Wilmot’s and found that 2nd Earl of Rochester is in my line. Although our direct line is a John Wilmot, a high borne Engineer from Somerset to America in the late 1600. Our family history is rich and interesting and now filled with “color” in language and lifestyle😀.
Thanks you for your explaining English history.
Dear Dr Kat, thank you for sparking my interest in finding out more abt this character! Thanks for vid. ❤
Having done this piece, which I thought was brilliant, I'd love to hear your take on the Marquis de Sade
Heck yeah
Wow, that first poem. My eyebrows just rise higher and higher.
I loved the movie that starred Johnny Depp in the title role.
Julie Blackstock Johnny Depp has always brought "out there" type characters to life. His role in "The Libertine" was as outstanding as was Jack Sparrow, Edward Scissorhands, Tonto,etc,etc,etc,
@@Chief2Moon yeah and I don't understand the critics' problem with the Lone Ranger movie with him as Tonto
Wow to actually write the second poem to the KING is actually appalling to someone who took care of him
Amazing he actually had his head on after , If it had been Henry the eight or even Elizabeth? I think being Charles the second and his father having being executed! This may have saved his life
Charles II wasn't the sort of man who would be put out by swearing, drinking or licentiousness. I believe Rochester made Charles II laugh.
I think one other thing that strikes me about Wilmont's writings is the fact that language such as this existed at all in the 17th century. In the modern era we really don't think people could have talked like that.
My wifi kept stalling during the reading. I think my phone fainted a couple times.
Interesting, I’ve not heard much about the Earl of Rochester, I noticed a couple of well read Marquis de Sade on the shelf have you done a video of him?
Watching this for 2nd time, just noticed the CUTE Brooch your wearing. LOVE IT!
Im a Brooch person!!!!
Honestly, Thomas Shadwell got it right with "The Libertine" - Rochester was a glorified sinner who just loved to cause trouble everywhere XD
However, the real, and thoroughly non-academic, question is: do you think he would have been fun to hang out with? Or just an insufferable letch?
@@ReadingthePast oh dude he'd be like one of those stereotypical wealthy kid types - rich, troubled and alot of Daddy issues ;)
So not my type, but if you went out clubbing every weekend... 😏😏😏😏
@@Mrjacharles Excuse me but why are you assuming he's wealthy? Most of them weren't. True a thousand pounds/year was money back then but he had a wife, a house, servants and four kids to take care of as well as such monies he kept for himself to spend in riotous living in London which doesn't come cheap. If one enjoyed hanging out with drunken men who never met a woman they didn't like, one might enjoy their company. but stop focusing upon the outward show and think about what his works are telling us - that beneath the fine clothes lies festering rot - and he wasn't afraid to say so blatantly and from direct experience - no hypocrite he, unlike many during that licentious age. He was willing to pay the price.
@@ReadingthePast no, not fun being around an attention seeking narcissist.
Wow that made for a very interesting video to listen to on my way home from work!!
I’m sure 😂
good one!...but I couldn't help admiring that cute velociraptor on your shelf...
Delightful. I'd like to see your review or reaction or both, of the Depp film.
Freud would have had a field day with this one.
Have there been any updates on the archeological dig at Roanoke that had to be postponed last year due to the pandemic?
Thank you! This was, as always, fascinating!
I really love his poetry because he tried to give a warts & all view of society a whole world.
the earl of rochester had an understanding of the expressive power of poetry, but his choice of subjects diluted it's effect. dryden and others in his day had a more astute talent for choosing their subjects.
Hi my name is Amer .I loved the you explain things about this video !
I don't know why, but Charlee Sheen comes to mind!!
The debauchery of the restoration was the result of the puritanical life forced on the English people by Oliver Cromwell. So, when Charles came on the throne, everyone went a little crazy. I also think that Rochester was remembered as a libertine because of his poetry, whereas the Duke of Buckingham was worse!
I just found your channel looking for the movie. I am so glad I found you! I love history and now I have you! I'm having such a good day today!! New sub!!
I found the poetry raw and real; a true expression of the artist’s experiences and worldview.
Fascinating presentation. In all honesty, his poetry wasn’t any more lewd than the Roman poet, Petronius.
This great! Please cover Ld Byron next.
Cannot say that this in any way edified me. ..some part of history best left to lie..
You are wise to redact because TH-cam has become unpredictable in it's enforcement of the rules. I love Samuel Pepys. He is such a gossip, lmao! 😂 Rochester was an all around badass! As you said, he was a model libertine for historical novels. Georgette Heyer comes to my mind. His poems have been rightly banned because they are pornographic, but there is a place somewhere for them. Wow, what a vulgar piece to write about the king! The man had a lot of nerve! He lived a debauched life and died by it. Oh well, at least he had no regrets.
Totally! Pepys is hilarious! It's such a gift that we have still his diaries to give us an insight into how life was when he was knocking around.
True, it was spitefully written of the King; however when it came to women Charles was the biggest fool and like a kid in a sweet shop. One was never enough. He loved them all extremely well until the day that he didn't. He could never just put a woman away though, they were usually well rewarded even if he had to go against ministerial advice to give them titles, money etc. Sad that he found genuine happiness in the company of a woman like Nell so late in his life. That he did love her seems to be in no doubt to me or that she loved him and not just because he was King. I would say in spite of actually.
Love the Restoration period and really enjoying all the videos. The Tudors too, love them. Thank you Kat.
@@ReadingthePast I love Pepys! My mother had copies of all his diaries and I loved the first hand account of the Great Fire. It was very gripping!
I find your voice very relaxing reading the poetry.
Growing up in the 60s and 70s, shock poetry and other graphic works were supposedly signs of freedom and liberation from societal norms. In my youth, I loved reading such works for their shock value. It made me feel edgy. As I get older, I find it lacking in substance and reliance upon shock only.
As an exposé of the court of Charles II, I think Wilmont’s work does somewhat the same thing. Exposing the coarse underbelly of society, rather than what society would like one to think.
Thank you so much for doing this video. It just goes to show that the more things change, the more they stay the same!
He died at 33? Well, he lived long enough to learn to write poetry, but in my opinion he didn't live long enough to become a Man. Just because your reproductive organs are functioning doesn't make it so.
If you're not a man by 33 something went wrong in your life or in your mind
What a troubled soul! His sin was that he verbalized what others silently tolerated. The raucous words merely a window to how he saw others effective on his life and found through mockery a way to explain his mimicry of others more empowered but less moral and accountability than himself.
Weirdly struck by the first, in that he seems to be mad at her, not for sleeping around, but for sleeping with _and caring about_ people he doesn't like. I'm not sure how honest that presentation is, because the tone feels hyperbolic. But it's interesting to imagine the vitriol as a result of someone who thought himself very cynical and worldly (I sleep around, she sleeps around, human nature, par for the course) finding himself wounded at a loss of emotional intimacy and lashing out because he doesn't want to admit to experiencing sentimental attachment.
Man, he dragged Charles II. 😮
Rochester was pretty good with the stylus. His work isn't bad at all, for what it is. But you now! You're work here is impressive, both in content and presentation in these 'c___'. ('Casts' , as in 'pod-casts', sorry I couldn't resist, a failing I have in common with Wilde.) ;) It would be hard not to admire your consummate historical artistry! Bravissimo!
It isn’t hypocritical to warn people not to embark on the same process through which you destroyed yourself and others. I don’t believe that was his being self aware. I think he was desperately trying to protect himself from the realization that he had wasted and destroyed his own life, made a mockery of his talents, and from the sound of things, made misery for everyone he ever had any significant relationship with. Often on purpose. I think the accusation of cowardice wasn’t that far off.
One TH-camr substitutes a duck quacking or a dolphin, or farting sounds for swear words depending on the word. 🤣
The sharing of his mistress with the king obviously gave Rochester an inflated sense of his own taste and it sounds from his poetry that he was not just decrying the Kings policies but also expressing sour grapes at the continued appropriation of Nelly by Charles II and even of her continued presence by the Kings side... and her seeming satisfaction at whatever efforts it required...
Aha! When you said he was a poet, I wondered if he wrote That Poem :D about Charles II! I dunno where I found it, & it was ages ago so I'd forgotten the author, but I thought it was hilarious! Pretty insulting, but the stuff like the comment about his sceptre was sort of a stupid-young man compliment. I have to say it helps to know some of the archaic naughty words like swive & spend- I thought you might "translate", but then maybe it's totally obvious? :D Great vid!
Thanks for uploading, I enjoyed it very much. Do you know Graham Greenes account of his life and works? He says Rochesters works in the Brittish Museum was catalogued under "a green letter phi", which was I believe the victorian cathegory for pornography. I think Rochester was deliberately pornographic to ensue a critical view of his time, and in this was following a tradition in which crude sex is used to attack the morals of the age, as did Catullus in classic Rome and did Ginsberg in modern New York.
Hi Erick! Thank you so much for commenting - I haven't read Graham Greene on Rochester, but I will be sure to check that out - great tip, thank you again!
I think you are definitely onto something with the use of shock tactics to decry the morals of the age as well. While Rochester seems willing to own (even partially celebrate) his own lax morality; he certainly doesn't make the behaviours seem attractive or without deep personal cost. This is one of the factors that makes his poetry so fascinating to me!
No regrets about his past, I subscribe to that.
If John Wilmot's father served Charles II, his son would have a good tutor in the ways of debauchery
love your biographies. Have you thought off doing bio's of the following? Charles Radcliffe earl of Derwentwarer, Judge Jefferies and Owen Glyndower
John Harris……..
I'm a little late to the ball, as I have only just discovered this channel quite recently and am enjoying it quite a lot. I really respect your research and academic approach, Dr. Kat, but also how you make the information so accessible. It's easy to make history as dry as an old bone, and you manage to avoid that.
I guess the questions I have are first, is it possible that Wilmot's relatively rare circumstances (i.e. being a favourite of the King, having status and a certain notoriety) brought forward any latent narcissism he may have suffered? I understand perfectly the pitfalls of posthumously diagnosing historical persons with modern pathologies, but can all of his impulsive behaviours be blamed on syphilis?
The second question I have is about the language you carefully avoided in the verses presented. I can certainly see why the Victorians got the vapours and buried Wilmot's poetry as deeply as they could, but in Wilmot's time, I'm not sure those words carried the same horror as in subsequent centuries.
Yes I know, very superficial... but your make up is gorgeous! Thanks for another entertaining and informative video.
Cucumbers in fudge will become a new craze :)
Bravo. Absolutely superb.
"Signor D*ldo" makes me laugh; Satire Against Reason and Mankind is a brilliant commentary on human pride.
so helpful thank you x
I love your videos!
It's so bizarre to hear my family name said so much out loud. I wonder if my Wilmot family have any relation to him.
Dr. Kat who was Queen Barbara and who is her grandson, Lord Michael Couchback. I can’t find anything on them….thank you
He seems to be a person who lacks something core. How can one write something dripping with such disdain for someone who supported you (through some pretty serious things) and gave you everything, including basically adopting you as a foster son (when under no obligation to do so)? So the very King himself was loyal and loving to him, but he hated him in return? Perhaps there were things that contributed to it, losing his father at 10 years of age, alcoholism, other illnesses we might not be aware of... But one can't help but think that a person who is aware enough to run when his poem showing such distaste for the king gets out ought to at least be thankful (if not able to dredge up any deeper feeling) to the man who provided him with as much opportunity and freedom as he had.
Hi Dr. Kat. Love the info! If he had died of tertiary syphilis, how did so many others (cucumbers) not get it?? It seems that during the last bit of his life, he suffered greatly, but his wife was steadfast in helping in any way she could.
Even by today's standards it's very "blue" language. I know the "pit" is the pit before the stage; latterly known to most as an orchestra pit. In Charles II's time no doubt it was a rowdy place where a lot of colourful things went on.
I looked this video up after watching the Libertine last night. I hoped you would have one, and I was right! In the movie it starts by saying he's a terrible person and we won't like hom, but I find him endearing compared to most of the arseholes back then. At least he knew he was nasty and owned up to it instead of pretending to be a gentleman.
A thought perhaps a video on marquis de sade?
Years ago I watched a film on him. I remember it was Johnny Depp who portrayed him. I also had a biography of him and I don't remember the name of the author.
amazing isn't it? hundreds of years later and society is still stuffy ultra purtians, in spite of the pretense otherwise ;)
lovely show, thanks :)
savory cucumber. .!.!.!. :,D lolol
It's odd how talking about it publicly seems to be considered more shocking than actually doing it privately, then and now, don't you think?
Really pleased you enjoyed the video!
@@ReadingthePast Isn't the whole point of 'public virtue' the public, not virtue?