"Madhhabs in ‘Aqidah" The Black Imam's Roundtable.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2025
- "Madhhabs in ‘Aqidah" The Black Imam's Roundtable includes Imam Amin Muhammad of Masjid Muhammad of Atlantic City, Inc.; Imam Faheem Lea of The Quba School and Islamic Center in Camden, NJ; and Imam Na'eem Abdullah of Masjid al-Mu'min of Pittsburgh, PA.
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I am from the Hanafi school and im glad I seen this discussion. This is real and both brothers Imam Amin and Sh.Nuh have great points and perspectives. I would love to see and learn from ullama and knowledgeable students from all schools that are foundational or indigenous American bros (and sisters for sisters). Imam Amin is seriously expressing a real wisdom in his message as it pertains to self help and self respect. #doForSelf
As salaamu Alikum wa Rahmantuallahi wa Barakatu excellent learned conversation Alhamduallah
This forum highlights our commom ignorance of islam i thanks the brothers for their contributions
By the way anyone knows about the out of 2016 sunni conference which took place in Chechnya regarding who are AHLUS SUNNA WAL JAMAAT, there were over 200 scholars invited except anyone from salafi movement
From a brother who is also developing and getting hated upon by his mates from the Salafis who he was around for 25 years studying with some of their scholars;
1- I think what Shaikh Amin was trying to say is that the Ash'ari and Maatudeedi Aqeedah is more solid and more authentic and much more established and in the past 1000 years because they have at least hundreds of scholars upon today with their Authentic Fully Connected Chains of Transmission and in Every Generation from now going back to the Early Ash'ari and the Early Maatureedi scholars they had hundreds likewise, in every generation, whereas the Hanbali/Athari Aqeedah has only have a very tiny number today that have Authentic Fully Connected Chains going back to the Early Hanbali Scholars in Aqeedah. Also, the Hanbali/Atharis took 2 different Methods, the Ahlul Hadeeth and the Muttakilimeen which is closer to the Ash'aris and Maatureedis.
2- The Ash'aris and Maatureedis DO mention in their books the Madhab of the Salaf and defended, check the Muqaddimaat of Iam as-Sanoosi which is the 1st of his 5 books in Aqeedah.
3- The Salafis keep lying and blatently spread that the Ash'aris and Maatureedis DENY many Attributes of Allah, rather the TRUTH is they can NEVER ever Interpret/make Ta'weel UNLESS they first Affirm/make Ith'baat, so they do Ith'baat/they Affirm.
4- Yes, the Salafis are Hijacking the Hanbali and many of the Books of the Salaf and it needs dealing with.
5- One thing that helped me a lot was seeing how MANY great scholars of the past presented the Madhab of the Salaf very differently to Imam ibn Taymiyyah, before him, in his time and after him and that showed he was ALONE and only his students backed him up and scholars refuted them then Muhammed ibn Abdul-Wahhab revived those erroneous views of Ibn Taymiyyah and misused many of his and Ibnul Qayyum statements and went way past them in Takfeer too then with help of Muhammed ibn Saud put it into full practice by mass killings that got documented by their very own historians, ibn Bishr and ibn Ghannam!!!!!
6- The Salafis rely a lot on 2 Books, 1- Sharh us-Sunnah of Imam al-Barbahaari and 2- Kitaab us-Sunnah by Imam Abdullah ibn Imam Ahmed.
BUT 3 problems;
1- Many statements are extreme and very problematic in both books
2- Some extremely weak and made up Hadeeth in both books
3- There is NO Ijmaa and agreement on the Chains of Transmission of these 2 Books at all, hence this explains how the extremes and extremely weak narrations entered into these 2 books .This might explain why some great scholars of early times like Imam ibn Hajr quoted from them selectively.
The Salafis have with all of this and more Divided up the Muslims past 30 years in every place they went, village or town or area or Masjid or families too. They have disabled a large part of the Ummah and stopped Unity of the Ummah in very critical issues, which is much needed in this situation of us with Caliphate that kept us generally very UNITED for 1300 years BUT now some of them are discovering the Hanbali Madhab in its Aqeedah and the true Ash'ari and Maatureedi Aqeedah.
On Tawwussul check out what Imam ibn Qudaamah al-Maqdisi in his big Fiqh Book al-Mugh'ni and Shamsud-Deen al-Maqdisi says in Sharh al-Kabeer on reciting the Verse in Surah Nisaa about going to the Prophet SAW when sinning and reading it at the Grave of the Prophet SAW and similar is said in the books of the other Madhabs!
Check out the book online PDF called ar-Ru'ya Wahhabiya by Shaikh Uthmaan Nabulisi and Qawlul Tamam by Shaikh Saif al-Asri and the book Ibn Taymiyyah Laisa Salafi and the book online al-Kalimaat ash-Shareefa wal Manaarah al-Muneefah Fi Ta'zeeh Abi Haneefah/Refutation of Shaikh Muqbils Book on Abu Haneefah.
The Salafis by the way almost destroyed the Hanbali Madhab of Fiqh so al-Azhar some years ago offered extra money for students to study it in al-Azhar as a way to preserve it, funny how KSA can't even open 1 full academic study for Imam Maaliks Madhab that was established in Madinah!
And yes, we do need better presentation and printing of the Books of Ahlus-Sunnah, especially now!!!
Also, check out the research online PDFs of Shaikh Abdul-Fattah al-Ya'fi'ee, they are amazing books and booklets that will open your eyes.
Tabarakallah ❤. Jazakallah khayran for your good contributions my brothers
Even the Prophet peace and blessings be upon him sent people to their own people to call them and teach them. Thats the prophetic tradition also.
Im currently studing in tarim and its clear the habaaib want to train us to return to our communities with the prophetic light.
Passion and commitment on display, with both brothers making good points. Hanabli scholars are still teaching, even though we don't hear from them. Salafi movement co-opted the School, but it isn't within the school if they rely on one (controversial) scholar of the School.
The most exceptional companions were aware of the true reality of certain things, like the attributes of Allah, but its full knowledge will always be possessed exclusively by Allah alone.
Hence why there was BOTH Taweel and Tajweed among the companions, each according to their own degree of awareness.
The supplication of the Prophet, sallallaahu ʻalayhi wa sallam, for Ibn ʻAbbaas was: 'O Allaah! Grant him profound understanding of the religion and teach him the Ta'weel (Tafseer of the Quran).' The meaning of this supplication is known by scholars to be in relation with the verses about the divine attributes of Allah. But not every companion was gifted like Ibn Abaas. The Aqeedah of the companions iss the embodiment of what that Ummah recieved in their time.with the Messenger (and only a handful of them did not pass away before.the Messenger left us, who were adept enough to give us the meanings we have available today). Imam Ahmed Hanbali was himself equipped with the answers about Allah's attributes (his creedal position was pure Tawheed).
Shaykh Nuh's approach and methodology in studying Hanbali madhab and proper Hanbali Aqeedah will ultimately win over more Salafis in the long run. Ppl are not willing to make the jump from Wahhabism straight to Asharism .. especially after years of Wahabi programming. Imam Amin's style of hardcore Ashari'sm will make them flee.
Get him Nuh!!! He dodged my question when he did his podcast with Dr. Shadi. He definitely came off as saying Hanbalis/Atharis are not from Ahl Sunnah. Many people get that same understanding from his social media statements.
Shaykh Nuh Saunders Mashallah well said, our been is not based on skin colour to be honest with you, I see shaykh Amin see's Black superior race, I'm a Pakistani and I love you guys but I think it would be good to have people from Pakistan, or India because we too are suffering from salafi movement, all the true sunnis should be united
Incorrect he's only saying to teach African American Muslims correct teaching of Islam coming from having our own black ulama here in America and that's how it was done in the sub continent introduced by the Muslim Arabs then taken by sub continent brothers and sisters and taught their own people. So I'ma Amin is right we need imaams , fuqaha, and tassawuf shuyukh from amongst ourselves because we African American Muslims only know our dire condition and situations.
@@robertyoungblood3740 Introduced by Turks, Afghans, and Persians in the subcontinent. Just look at the founders of the Dynasties and Sufi Orders like the Chishti Order.
Salam Brother Amin, I have a question for you which will destroy Salafism understanding of shirk, we know sunni and Shia splitted in the 1st Hijra, we find many books in sunni tradition written refuting Shia aqeeda in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, century, we know Shia always practiced tawasul and istighata since 1st century, now my question is do we find in sunni tradition our scholars calling Shia tawasul istighata as shirk??? because we have some practices same as Shia, this is a very solid question
I’m a muslimah and a muhminah. That’s all. AsSalaamAlaikum
Isn't Mohammad Hijab (who considers himself an African) both of the Hanbali madhab and Ashari creed? Sure he's not African American, but such persons do exist who are both...
Secondly the Hanbalis who didnt wanna debate historically were of the Athari creed (who originated after Imam Ahmad Hanbali, because for the record Imam Ahmad would have debated anyone, and did have debates with the Anthropomorphists who tortured him). Today's Hanbalis who are Ashari in creed can debate within the prescriptive boundaries that are permissible.
Wahhabi so called Hanbalis who only quote from Ibn Taymiyya (who himself deviated from.Hanbali protocol) are.hanbalis without chains of transmission (hence why they're fake Hanbalis) and then they deviate even further than Ibn Taymiyya. These Wahabbis call themselves of the Salaf (of the pious ancestors) but they blatently go against the statements of companions like Ibn Abbas for example, so.they're way out of the fold of Ahl el Sunnah wal Jammah.
For Brother Nuh. A Mufawidaa Hanbali that does kalam is essentially an Ashari/Maturidi. Just look at the books they read and teach. When we say the schools of creed we refer to kalamic schools i.e. ashari maturidi. Of course the hanbali are also a part of ASWJ. But context and nuance of these statements need to be taken into consideration.
Nope this is untrue. Their aqeedah is different. It is delusion to claim hanbalis are ash’ari in aqīdah, even the mutakallimeen from them. Mutakallim oriented hanbalis expressed the same creed as those who were more ‘athari’ albeit in different language(usage of kalaam terminology). But the creed is the same
@@ish8891 brother. I think you are conflating two things. Methodology and principles/fundamentals. They share the same principles in the fundaments. The difference is in their methodology. The ashaab al hadith were against kalam, qiyaas etc. The Hanbali madhab in the early period were anti kalam. Over time they came to accept kalam in a limited fashion. They read and take from ashari/maturidi books of creed (nasafi etc). The problem is with taymi kalam. That was deemed problematic by the vast majority of the ullema of aswj.
Everything Sh Amin has said is from pure experience and wisdom . Sh Nuh might be right theoretically and technically but those views are disconnected from the ground realities. May Allah (swt) give barakah in their works. Ameen.
Brother we need you here home on the front line join the brothers
Also, who was the student shyk al albani you said you met in Jordan? Shukran
Also don't forget the Sharh of Lum'atu I'tiqaad by Shaikh Falih al-Khazraji and that of Shaikh Yusaf Sadiq, both printed. And now we got a newish book refuting Shaikh Badee ud-Deen Sindi called If'tiraat and the books of Shaikh Muhammed Saeed Mamdooh, very important.
Where can I get the books?
@@halimsahlan681 check online my brother and you'll find them either in pdf or if not then to buy, make you search with arabic though
@@BeObjectiveBeHumble jazakallahu khyran
I agree with Sidi Nuh the traditional hambali were part of Ahlus sunna wal jamat, all of ashari, mathuridya need to work together to expose salafi disease in the umma,
Sh Nuh, may Allah swt bless you, and may Allah swt bless imam Amin. Sh Nuh, keep this tranquille attitude, it wins the hearts. Imam Amin loses the authority due to his harsh appearance unfortunately. I totally believe he knows and tries to preach ahl al Sunnah, but due to his way of interaction people can feel as if he is against shaykh Nuh. But the whole time, imam Amin talks parallel to him which makes it seem like they don’t talk about the same content. But factually, they talk about the exact same topic.
What was the creed of Shyk Al Albani? Was he Ashari or Maturidi in creed or was he upon the same creed as Ibnu Taymiyyah? Shukran
What do you think? Genuinely
A muslim birthday party!? How can we make progress on these in-depth topics when we haven’t addressed these basics. How did that go unchecked or prompt some disclaimer or explanation??
when your house is burning you focus on putting out the fire first. not on fixing the door. there needs to be priorities
Nuh wasting time with his circular and overlapping explanation ,it was made clear by the forum where to place the hanabilla creed, nuh linear presentation is superceded by tawil which is necessary to keep people in the deen
All of these talks have the ummah confused
How’s that ?
Hedorodox groups, ahmadiyya, N.O.I , moorish science, khalifa Rashad quraanist , and now salafiyya ideology which isn't hedorodox but not traditional ahlul Sunnah.
Tablighi jamaah represent the hanifi deobandi school and is of the maturidiyya. Upholders of ahlul wal jamaah traditional. Also sufism
Not everyone that goes with tabligh is hanafi maturidi, or deobandi.
Tablighi jamaah represent the hanifi deobandi school and is of the maturidiyya this is totally incorrect, All Shafi's, Maliki's believe in Tawassul at graves ie asking Prophet (swas) to make Dua to Allah, Deobandi label this as SHIRK just like wahabi movement, within Deobandi you some saying it's not shirk where majority say it's shirk because they get commission from Saudi Arabia, Deobandi's show nifaq, when they go to Al-azar, or Damascus they pretend to be Grave worshippers but when they come back home in India, Pakistan they label Brehlvi's grave worshippers
Tablighi jamaah are hanafi and maturidiyya and on top of that chistiyya, qadiryya, , nashibandi, and suhwardiyya in tassawuf.
Yes some are deobandi Saudi influence d but not all of them.
Sorry not some but big majority, I used to be deaobandi while ago, they used to call brehlvi's mushriks and forget to mention the book called fazil-e-amal just to be thought every morning, read chapter on fazil-e-hajj stories of istighata and tawassul are quoted, none of deobandi will call shaykh Zakariya mushrik (mazalla) but yet brehlvi's are labeled as grave worshippers, isn't this double standard
Ashari maturidi and athari are all ahlul sunnah
Nuh has totally missed the point. Totally.
That amin guy is very argumentative. The guy already proved that he has an unbroken chain. does he think that this chain only teached one person in every generation?
Why have you made the religion ethnicentric? There is no need to make the religion about black this or black that. Islam is perfect and doesnt need to be improved by your civil rights american political issues.
You don't say that about Arabs and Asians managing their own affairs. Allaah made us into nations and tribes to know one another and all of us have been given Imams. Stop thinking that just because we exist as nations and tribes that we are divided. We are individuals. individuals make up families and tribes. Families and tribes make up communities and villages. Villages make up nations.
We are one Ummah/nation of many tribes.
@@greentooth3097 Arab, Asian is not the same as Black. 2 are races and the other is a color. Can you show me a video listed as brown imams table I don't think so. Nor do Black people in Africa make a big deal out of what skin color or where they come from unlike people in the USA and UK. Go West Africa the people there are not ethnocentric they are proud of Islam and don't have an inferiority complex. Don't bring this jahili ethnocentric American racism issues into Islam. Our religion is perfect and we are the same and equal if we are believers no need to emphasise on your skin color.
Did the salaf have “the black imams round table?” No they did not. They refrained from nationalism and never singled out skin color for something like this. Sounds like NOI type stuff.
Doing for self is not nationalism! The only people who say that are African Americans.
No such thing as Muslims grave worshippers . Only tawassul or prayers for their souls that are living.
Is this a bunch of yik yak devoid of remembrance of Allah?
Leave the Asharis alone in their hate and ignore them.